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View Full Version : Baucher vs Full/Half Cheek with keepers...



pattnic
Mar. 9, 2011, 11:28 AM
Essentially the same? (Other than the added steering afforded by a full cheek... not concerned about that, just the other aspects, ie stability, etc)

Thanks!

Trixie's mom
Mar. 9, 2011, 01:11 PM
I really like the baucher made by KK...the french link with the lozenge...called the B Bit.
It works for a lot of my horses. It's stable in their mouth...good for 'flabby cheeks'...
I've found that horses that have had the tendency to avoid contact really find this bit 'comforting' so to speak.

Tiki
Mar. 9, 2011, 01:48 PM
Not even remotely the same. The Baucher has separate rings for the bit and the reins. Basically, the bit hangs in the mouth so that it produces MUCH less pressure on the bars and the tongue. Lots of horses really like this bit as it is more comfortable. Not all horse's bars are the same. Some have relatively thick flesh over the bone, some relatively thin.

A full cheek, or half cheek, snaffle merely has bars on the side to keep the bit from pulling through the mouth. There is only one ring for the bit and the reins, just like all other snaffles, and the bit sits on the bars of the moutn.

pattnic
Mar. 9, 2011, 02:16 PM
Not even remotely the same. The Baucher has separate rings for the bit and the reins. Basically, the bit hangs in the mouth so that it produces MUCH less pressure on the bars and the tongue. Lots of horses really like this bit as it is more comfortable. Not all horse's bars are the same. Some have relatively thick flesh over the bone, some relatively thin.

A full cheek, or half cheek, snaffle merely has bars on the side to keep the bit from pulling through the mouth. There is only one ring for the bit and the reins, just like all other snaffles, and the bit sits on the bars of the moutn.

I'm asking specifically about comparative stability in the horse's mouth between the two when the full/half cheek is used with keepers. Are you of the opinion that keepers do not alter the function or stability of a full cheek, or how it hangs in the horse's mouth?

buck22
Mar. 9, 2011, 02:28 PM
Did a fairly unscientific test on another bb with bits a while back and took some photos. Compared a full cheek with a fc w/ keepers (bailing twine, had lent out the bridle with keepers), with a boucher, with a loose ring.

The photos were really challenging to get, as I was trying to apply rein pressure and take a photo at the same time :lol: and my horse was too compliant and softening too eagerly so it was hard to show 'action', but below is what we managed to get.

I drew my own conclusions (which certainly may be wrong) that keepers appear to cause the headstall to be dragged on possibly causing some poll pressure? but a boucher appeared to want to float as the rein pressure increased.

But, I'm no expert, so here are the series of old photos and you can draw your own conclusions:

full cheek no keepers:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/the%20great%20bit%20experiment/IMG_3268-1.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/the%20great%20bit%20experiment/IMG_3272-1.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/the%20great%20bit%20experiment/IMG_3276-1.jpg

full cheek with (very fancy :lol:) keepers:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/the%20great%20bit%20experiment/IMG_3279-1.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/the%20great%20bit%20experiment/IMG_3286-1.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/the%20great%20bit%20experiment/IMG_3287-1.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/the%20great%20bit%20experiment/IMG_3288-1.jpg

b-ring boucher:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/the%20great%20bit%20experiment/IMG_3291.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/the%20great%20bit%20experiment/IMG_3292-1.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/the%20great%20bit%20experiment/IMG_3293-1.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/the%20great%20bit%20experiment/IMG_3294-1.jpg

loose ring (just because it was there):
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/the%20great%20bit%20experiment/IMG_3301-1.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/the%20great%20bit%20experiment/IMG_3305.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/the%20great%20bit%20experiment/IMG_3306-1.jpg

to the mouthpieces, all 4 are double jointed. The FC and B ring boucher are both HS with a bean mouth. The loose ring is a NS with a bean mouth, and the FC with keepers is this bit here: http://www.horsetackinternational.com/full-cheek-french-link-cyprium-bit.html

don't know if my post answers any questions :lol: but perhaps someone will spot something and enlighten us all.

buck22
Mar. 9, 2011, 02:36 PM
I'm asking specifically about comparative stability in the horse's mouth between the two when the full/half cheek is used with keepers. Are you of the opinion that keepers do not alter the function or stability of a full cheek, or how it hangs in the horse's mouth?
as far as this question, I can answer, anecdotally (based on how my horse appears to vote), that a fc w keepers appears to be more stable than a fc w/o keepers, but not as stable as a boucher. Boucher appears to be most stable of the 3. Most likely because it hangs rather than than being fastened (keepers).

As far as function, thats been debated for ever :lol: and my post above probably muddies things more than make them clearer. :lol:

jn4jenny
Mar. 9, 2011, 02:38 PM
What buck22 said. Most horses don't care about this very fine distinction, but some horses do. Mine was unfortunately one of them; he was so-so in a full cheek with keepers but excellent in a baucher. Fortunately he's grown out of it and now wears a KK eggbutt.