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Velvet
Mar. 1, 2011, 04:54 PM
Anyone else read the article out here (COTH) on him? Right away, looking at the stud fee for Totilas (which we all know is around $10,000) I'm seeing a trend in Europe for even dressage horses to now be on their way up to race horses prices here in the US. Sure, not anywhere really close yet for our top race horses, but this is pushing towards closing that gap! :eek:

Equi88
Mar. 1, 2011, 05:01 PM
Stud fee for Totilas in Germany is supposed to be 3000 Euro. Higher than usual, but it is for a highly unusual horse :)

Enderle
Mar. 1, 2011, 06:28 PM
Stud fee: Mail order semen (frozen semen only): € 5,000 per insemination dose / Insemination at PS in Mühlen (occasionally fresh semen): € 4,000,00 in advance and a furhter € 4,000,00 in case the mare is certified in in foal (by 1st October).
http://www.schockemoehle.com/en/service-station-stud/breeding-stallions/

mbm
Mar. 1, 2011, 10:23 PM
when they first announced Totilas's breeding fees last (?) year, I predicted that we would see an increase in fees across the board.... monkey see/monkey do and all that.

shouldn't the price decrease since they can now cover so many more mares with AI?

Petstorejunkie
Mar. 1, 2011, 11:07 PM
$10,000 is a small price to pay for semen from what's considered to be the best horse in dressage right now.

Kaluna
Mar. 1, 2011, 11:27 PM
Yes, Velvet. The stud fee is ridiculous, in my opinion, "best horse in the world" or not. He's an unproven sire. And I disagree with him - the genepool is shrinking because people jump so hard on "bandwagon stallions". Did you catch the part of one of his 5-year olds selling for almost a million dollars to the sponsor of George Williams?

Yes, Paul is raising the bar to the TBs and the Arabs of the world. Soon there will be a Nearco, a Northern Dancer, a Bask++ equivalent in every bloodline. :rolleyes:

nhwr
Mar. 2, 2011, 12:01 AM
Paul Schockemöhle's catalog say the stud fee is 4300 € (about $6000). I think that is sort of a trophy price when a lot of very good stallions are available for a fraction of that.

Unless he has some sort of mutation like Secretariat did with the X-factor, it will tend to diminish Toto's impact on sport horses overall.
I think that is unfortunate.

joiedevie99
Mar. 2, 2011, 01:15 PM
Judy has him listed on her website at 5000 euros for 2011. I assume it's higher than the European price because it includes import. Thats about $6900 right now.

Foxtrot's
Mar. 2, 2011, 10:32 PM
That's for one insemination? At least with racehorses it is live foal.

2tempe
Mar. 2, 2011, 11:11 PM
Yes, Velvet. The stud fee is ridiculous, in my opinion, "best horse in the world" or not. He's an unproven sire. And I disagree with him - the genepool is shrinking because people jump so hard on "bandwagon stallions". Did you catch the part of one of his 5-year olds selling for almost a million dollars to the sponsor of George Williams?

As I have watched their auction results from afar, I have to ask whether his horses are really "all that" or is there some marketing and other magic that makes the average price of the sales horses well in excess of $200,000.

Napoles
Mar. 3, 2011, 05:43 AM
There is serious marketing and pr involved in the ps enterprise. My mum has been to one of the auctions and also had the tour of all the stallions and found it hugely impressive. The auctions sound like great fun with a lot of razzmatazz.

dudleyc
Mar. 3, 2011, 06:27 AM
when they first announced Totilas's breeding fees last (?) year, I predicted that we would see an increase in fees across the board.... monkey see/monkey do and all that.

shouldn't the price decrease since they can now cover so many more mares with AI?

He was always AI, the Visser's were limiting the number of breedings available to something like 300 or 350 mares, and the mares needed to be approved by the Visser's.

DownYonder
Mar. 3, 2011, 07:08 AM
High stud fees didn't start with Totilas. Some years back, frozen semen from most stallions standing in Germany could be had for under 500Euros per dose. PS priced Sandro Hit around the 800E mark when he became super popular. That was considered high at the time. The price gradually went up from there on an annual basis as Sandro Hit continued to prove popular with mare owners. Then PS and other stallion owners in Germany learned that folks in NA and elsewhere were splitting doses of frozen semen (i.e., using a single insemination dose in multiple mares). Most of these stallion owners reacted by raising prices for frozen semen (prices doubled in many cases). Prices for Pauls' best, most popular stallions were (and still are) industry leaders (there are a few exceptions here and there - for instance, prices for Argentinus and For Pleasure frozen semen are in the stratosphere).

Regarding pricing on Totilas - Paul paid a small fortune for this horse. While on one hand, the only way he could make his money back is to keep the stud fee low so the horse would attract hundreds upon hundreds of breedings every year (some stallions in Germany reportedly get 500-900 breedings per year), he also wants to keep the foal prices a bit high. That means limiting the supply. He also wants good mares coming to Totilas - the high fee will tend to weed out low-end breeders with mediocre mares.

As for marketing, etc. - pre-sale and after-sale service is usually very, very good from the PS operation. They wine and dine serious clients and will often "take back" a horse that isn't working out - not offering a refund, but instead swapping it out for another horse that is more suitable. While their prices tend to be VERY high for fancy horses, there is a lot of service involved in the sale. Lots of folks will pay extra for that level of service. ;)

alicen
Mar. 3, 2011, 07:20 AM
Yes, Velvet. The stud fee is ridiculous, in my opinion, "best horse in the world" or not. He's an unproven sire. And I disagree with him -

In his defense, I've heard that T tried to negotiate for more turnout time rather than $, but he was outnumbered by his partners.

Napoles
Mar. 3, 2011, 08:02 AM
In his defense, I've heard that T tried to negotiate for more turnout time rather than $, but he was outnumbered by his partners.

When my mum saw the stallions in Schockemole's, she was very impressed at how well adjusted and mannerly every single one of them seemed to be, so it would appear that they are happy in their surroundings anyway. As far as I remember, she was surprised at the slightly small stables, but again said the horses seemed very settled and happy.