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View Full Version : flash attachments: the toilet paper argument



TheHorseProblem
Feb. 28, 2011, 03:35 PM
I have always attached the flash strap so that the buckle is on the right side of the horse (looking straight at the horse) and the strap goes up through the buckle right to left, and can be secured by tucking it through the buckle, the keeper, then through the flash attachment connector to the noseband. The buckle sits sort of over the nostril where there's a dip, instead of under the chin or below the horse's lips, where it can dig in to the flesh.

Not everyone does it this way, and my bridle gets messed with.:no:

So, just like the toilet paper argument, does the free end of the strap point up or down?

merrygoround
Feb. 28, 2011, 03:42 PM
Placed, as you wish it, the free end would point down, towards the mouth.

As for TP, it's however I grabbed the roll that time.:lol:

kcmel
Feb. 28, 2011, 03:44 PM
Hmmm, hard to visualize your description. The buckle is typically on horse's left, often the free end of strap pointing up and going back through the loop on bridle. Is that what you were saying? My loop though is too small to allow for the free end, so I have it facing down.

Eclectic Horseman
Feb. 28, 2011, 03:58 PM
Merrygoround is correct. Loose end end goes under the chin. When the keeper is lost, many people turn the flash strap around the other way and stick the loose end back into the loop that holds the flash strap, but it is not made to do that, and unless the bridle is very old and the loop is stretched out, it will not fit.

TheHorseProblem
Feb. 28, 2011, 04:05 PM
This is how I have always done it:

http://www.thermatex.co.uk/img/brpd-jaguar-bridle-hh-large.jpg

When I get to the barn, elves have switched it to this:

http://www.brighteyesandbobtails.co.uk/acatalog/347A_Flash_noseband_att.jpg

WBLover
Feb. 28, 2011, 04:06 PM
Mine is buckled on the left side of his nose, in the recess above the nostril, with the loose end of the strap pointing DOWN, and into it's keeper. Mine is so long the end of the strap and keeper is usually below his mouth.

ddashaq
Feb. 28, 2011, 04:07 PM
The second picture is how I do it.

ThirdCharm
Feb. 28, 2011, 04:18 PM
If your strap points upward, unless you have a flash strap of the exact length to buckle in the right spot and tuck just the tip neatly through the nose connector, you end up with a very obvious piece sticking out sideways on the right side of the noseband. IF the center connector is stretched out enough to let you stick the strap through it!

If the strap is fastened with the point downward, you can have the buckle in the same place and adjust the second keeper to keep the excess strap curved neatly under the horse's chin. And even if you're in a hurry and leave an inch or two sticking out, at least it is under the jaw not waving about beside the horse's face.

So that's the way I've always done it....

Jennifer

Doodlebug1
Feb. 28, 2011, 04:27 PM
Like every other buckle on your saddle and bridle, it should point down.

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Feb. 28, 2011, 04:32 PM
I like it to point downward to the right and be neatly tucked in the keepers. However, if it is short enough (and most are way long), I have tucked it in so that it goes through the attachment loop, but doesn't stick out on the other end. Funny the kinds of things we (dressage peeps) worry about :winkgrin:

ThirdCharm
Feb. 28, 2011, 04:38 PM
Like every other buckle on your saddle and bridle, it should point down.

Good point!!!

Jennifer

LuckOfTheIrish91
Feb. 28, 2011, 05:07 PM
Mine points downwards. Always has. Points down and is secured in a keeper!

TheHorseProblem
Feb. 28, 2011, 06:34 PM
Obviously I am outnumbered! But I remember getting a lecture from one trainer about it, and then seeing in Dressage Today, in the clinic by Lisa Wilcox, that she mentioned the flash strap sticking out and down on a rider's bridle. She very specifically said that it should be turned around and the free end tucked into the loop. So I looked at some German tack websites, and sure enough, that's how all the bridles looked:

http://www.va-reitartikel.com/Reitsport-Trense-Pferde-Trensen-Gebisse-Zaumzeug

coloredhorse
Feb. 28, 2011, 06:49 PM
THP, you are not alone! When I use a flash, not only do I prefer the end to turn up, but I prefer it buckled on the right, as well.

I prefer it because it looks neater, particularly if you trim the flash for each horse short enough to ensure that the end tucks into the keeper and nestles into the loop on the caveson that holds the flash. The flash attachments are cheap enough that I like to have a custom-fitted one for each horse that uses one.

ETA: This is not a "right" versus "wrong" discussion. I learned to do it this way by seeing it eons ago, when flash nosebands were more rare. It's just a matter of personal preference.

Eclectic Horseman
Feb. 28, 2011, 06:57 PM
Obviously I am outnumbered! But I remember getting a lecture from one trainer about it, and then seeing in Dressage Today, in the clinic by Lisa Wilcox, that she mentioned the flash strap sticking out and down on a rider's bridle. She very specifically said that it should be turned around and the free end tucked into the loop. So I looked at some German tack websites, and sure enough, that's how all the bridles looked:

http://www.va-reitartikel.com/Reitsport-Trense-Pferde-Trensen-Gebisse-Zaumzeug

Actually, the pictures in the link that you posted are inconsistent. Some buckles are facing up, but a few are facing down, too.

No straps should be sticking out anywhere on your tack (at least according to hunter queen George Morris. ;)) If the leather is too long to be secured neatly into its keeper without excess, then cut it off. If you lost the keeper, then secure the loose strap with an elastic braider, or in the case of a flash, turn it around.

TBrescue
Feb. 28, 2011, 07:05 PM
My keeper is missing. I do it the way it is in the first picture :yes:

Lovinglife5757
Feb. 28, 2011, 07:31 PM
Mine points downwards. Always has. Points down and is secured in a keeper!

Yep, mine points down also. Always has, always will. Not only that, threaded correctly through the flash, the keeper won't get lost (until the first time you take it off to clean it!).

Dry Clean Only
Feb. 28, 2011, 07:52 PM
The second way is the correct way. It must be awkward to buckle done your way unless you are a lefty.:)

TheHorseProblem
Feb. 28, 2011, 08:48 PM
The second way is the correct way. It must be awkward to buckle done your way unless you are a lefty.:)

Au contraire. I find it awkward to reach under the horse's chin to stick the end in the keeper. Maybe I'm just used to doing it this way.

LovingLife, I think that may be what happened, that the keeper fell off the first time, so I switched it around to prevent that.:)

dwblover
Feb. 28, 2011, 09:51 PM
To each his own, haha! :D I actually do buckle mine on the right and put the small amount of excess leather up through the flash loop on the noseband. To me it just looks better that way and sits right in the dip of the nose so the buckle does not push into the skin anywhere. I also saw Coutney King-Dye on the cover of Dressage Today and her bridle was done up the same way, LOL!!

TheHorseProblem
Feb. 28, 2011, 11:03 PM
:lol::lol::lol:In this very publication!

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/dressage-horse-year-idocus

I feel better now that I know I am in good company!

betonbill
Feb. 28, 2011, 11:27 PM
Down, down, always down, and the keeper doesn't get lost that way.

Eclectic Horseman
Mar. 1, 2011, 07:30 AM
:lol::lol::lol:In this very publication!

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/dressage-horse-year-idocus

I feel better now that I know I am in good company!

And the end of the flash is sticking out of the other side! Into the air! :eek:

Good thing she is clearly only schooling!

Another thing worth mentioning is that most of the riders I know who turn the flash around and put the end in the noseband loop end up having to replace the noseband at some point. If the stitching breaks, the noseband can be resewn, but frequently the leather of the loop tears and then either the loop or the entire noseband needs to be replaced.

WBLover
Mar. 1, 2011, 10:14 AM
My noseband loop is WAYYYY too tight to be able to put the strap through it. I have this type, where the flash attachment loop can be completely removed.

http://www.justbridles.com/index.php?p=product&id=10&parent=18

And yes, the German bridle tack page that TheHorseProblem linked shows them BOTH ways (look at the pony as one example of it DOWN), so to each his own I guess!!

Yes, we dressage riders are SO anal!

2tempe
Mar. 1, 2011, 10:35 AM
Though it was my understanding that "down" is the traditional way, its clear that "up" as you are doing it is also used. If I were you I'd put a note on my bridle hook: Dear little elves: please do not change my flash..."

Lin
Mar. 1, 2011, 10:42 AM
If you've lost the keeper, a braiding elastic makes a handy replacement and is best hidden under the chin.

Velvet
Mar. 1, 2011, 10:55 AM
Through the keepers and pointed down towards the chin. It's the "correct" way. All tack points down. None of the other buckles make the straps go up. And it looks ugly across the top of the horse's nose (IMO).

Petstorejunkie
Mar. 1, 2011, 02:45 PM
and here i was thinking this was a thread on the tightness of a flash and maybe having it only tight enough to where you could pull a single ply toilet paper out from under it without breaking...
:lol:

pointing down i don't care which side.

Po-Po
Mar. 2, 2011, 04:36 PM
Same here....


The second picture is how I do it.

sophie
Mar. 2, 2011, 07:09 PM
I do it with the strap pointing down, also. I lost the keeper eons ago and a black or brown braiding elastic works great.

then again, I don't use the flash anymore...

Foxtrot's
Mar. 2, 2011, 11:26 PM
It has always been pointing down, a la Pony Club. Except when you look in German magazines at the ads for stallions it is often pointing up.

Therefore, like the toilet paper roll, it is probably correct both ways.

Personally - I think it looks untidy to have a bit of flash flapping around or sticking up over the nose, and I like my t.p. roll coming over the top and to the front, so there.

NorCalDressage
Mar. 2, 2011, 11:54 PM
I'm a used to be down - now pointed up - convert!

Mostly because some of the horses like to rub or itch their nose/muzzles on their leg during warm up, or a walk break. I usually would have the keeper right under the chin, but after a decent face itch, it'll get moved and then it's flappin' in the breeze during the rest of the ride. Used to drive me crazy!

This way (excess strap pointed upwards) it doesn't get moved around.

TheHorseProblem
Jul. 26, 2011, 10:28 PM
I'm a used to be down - now pointed up - convert!

Mostly because some of the horses like to rub or itch their nose/muzzles on their leg during warm up, or a walk break. I usually would have the keeper right under the chin, but after a decent face itch, it'll get moved and then it's flappin' in the breeze during the rest of the ride. Used to drive me crazy!

This way (excess strap pointed upwards) it doesn't get moved around.

Now I know why! I switched my flash to pointing down, just because I got tired of all the questions about shouldn't it be the other way? Well, no, and here's why: the last few rides, the keeper has slid down the flash, leaving the strap poking out, and I have had to stop and fix it.

So I switched it back the other way, tucking the excess strap through the flash attachment thingy on the noseband a la CKD above, and that solved the problem.

I'm back to being a confirmed pointing up-per.

quietann
Jul. 26, 2011, 11:16 PM
very much a to each their own issue. Currently I have the strap pointing down. But, when working with our first trainer, who is a well-respected ex-FEI competitor, she always had it pointing up and tucked into the flash tab on the top of the noseband. I never did find out why she preferred it that way.

GraceLikeRain
Jul. 26, 2011, 11:20 PM
Always pointing down. Neat, tidy, and looks great in pictures.


I never have the issue of a horse moving it around because I never allow my horse to rub her face against her leg while I'm on her back.

Fairview Horse Center
Jul. 26, 2011, 11:26 PM
To me, it has always been proper to have the strap down. To have it up, it better be exactly the right length, or it will be very unattractive sticking out of the horse's nose.

That said, for schooling, at home, many people switch it around, as that way, you are much less likely to lose the strap, if left hanging free in the tackroom, or trunk, trailer, etc. as the buckle is not going to slip thru the nose loop. The strap end is likely to slip out when it is only thru a few inches.

When you tack up at the show, switch it around so your photos look nicer. :yes: :D

Alagirl
Jul. 26, 2011, 11:28 PM
This is how I have always done it:

http://www.thermatex.co.uk/img/brpd-jaguar-bridle-hh-large.jpg

When I get to the barn, elves have switched it to this:

http://www.brighteyesandbobtails.co.uk/acatalog/347A_Flash_noseband_att.jpg


..... throw some peas out for the elves to trip on....

I had mine like the 1st picture.

it's harder for the strap to get lost that way...simplest reason...

GraceLikeRain
Jul. 27, 2011, 07:27 AM
Honest question, does anyone leave their bridle completely unbuckled when they are done riding?

I've always put my bridles in a "figure 8" for storage so I never have the possibility of losing keepers and such. I wonder if there's a correlation between how you store your bridle and whether or not the excess of the flash points up or down?

TheHorseProblem
Jul. 27, 2011, 07:39 AM
Either way, the keeper is between the buckle end of the flash and the tab on the noseband. It's not lost keepers that motivate me to defy conventional wisdom, it's that the keeper is loose so that the strap works itself out of it.

When I use my own tack locker, I hang my bridle unbuckled, although I do always wipe it down first. Now that I'm using the communal locker room, I do the figure eight.

*Liz*
Jul. 27, 2011, 08:07 AM
When I use a flash, I like it pointed up on the left side. Personally, I think that doing it 'upside down' lets the flash buckle sit and stay in a more comfortable place. Because I don't do my flashes up super tight, they tend to move around or turn a little, and I find pointing the excess end up and tucking it into the flash attachment keeps the flash where horse and I are both comfortable.

Galadriël Fëfalas
Jul. 27, 2011, 08:22 AM
I have mine pointing up, but I trimmed the excess leather off, so I don't end up with a strap flapping...

Equibrit
Jul. 27, 2011, 11:35 AM
Better yet - don't use one.

NRB
Jul. 27, 2011, 11:45 AM
I also have the strap pointing up, and have trimmed it back. I hate metal buckles, keepers anywhere near the sensitve tissues of the mouth. So my buckle rests on top of the nostril, on top of the face. the keeper is only a couple inches away. no where near the mouth.

Vesper Sparrow
Jul. 27, 2011, 11:51 AM
Pointed up, and the buckle near the loop on the top of the nose rather than down by the lips. I figure the lips are more sensitive than the nose and the buckle would dig into them a bit, even though I don't do the flash up tightly. My flash is often rather loose. As I told a steward, who commented on it approvingly, the flash was more there for show than anything else.

AllWeatherGal
Jul. 27, 2011, 12:34 PM
It has always been pointing down, a la Pony Club. Except when you look in German magazines at the ads for stallions it is often pointing up.

Therefore, like the toilet paper roll, it is probably correct both ways.

Personally - I think it looks untidy to have a bit of flash flapping around or sticking up over the nose, and I like my t.p. roll coming over the top and to the front, so there.

I've always had it pointing down. I received a mild scolding for it at my new barn (run by a Pferdewirtshaftsmeister). I learned that it's less a matter of esthetics as much as function -- the flash (when used properly) is supposed to support the bottom of the jaw and therefore be guided upward to the top as one tightens the buckle.

Maybe a Hausfrau Geschichte, but it seems wiser to get a shorter flash strap than argue.

Alexie
Jul. 27, 2011, 01:05 PM
I don't know where my flash is, I took it off as soon as I bought the bridle, not a fan of 'em though would use one if I thought I was in a situation with a horse where I thought one would help.

Jeito
Jul. 27, 2011, 02:09 PM
Pferdewirtshaftsmeister


Hausfrau Geschichte

I don't know what these words mean. Do I have go back to the Hunter/Jumper forum :lol:?

I prefer the strap pointing down, not up, but I really don't think it makes much (if any) functional difference. . .and I would never argue with a trainer with a German accent (or one without).

cuatx55
Jul. 27, 2011, 04:11 PM
Buckle on left, end pointed down.

Carol O
Jul. 27, 2011, 04:35 PM
Buckle on the horses left, end pointed up, tucked under the attachment. Someone recently commented on this to me; "Oh, I see you do it the German way".

I simply think it looks tidy.

Nelzeagle
Jul. 27, 2011, 05:38 PM
I vote with the elves (facing back & down). I cut the extra length off the strap, and I sewed the moveable keeper where I wanted it.

hrsmstr
Jul. 27, 2011, 05:55 PM
Alagirl, is the horse in the first picture (red roan?) yours? He looks like a dandy!!! I'd have him in my barn, upside down, right side up, I don't care!

hrsmstr
Jul. 27, 2011, 05:59 PM
Pferdewirtshaftsmeister

Disco, this means "horsemaster" or Master in Horse Management.

I plugged it into Google Translator. Had to dink around with it because the original post had it misspelled.

abv1269
Jul. 27, 2011, 06:19 PM
:lol:

I just about fell out of my chair when I read this one. It's been a brutal day, but this made it all better.


Pferdewirtshaftsmeister

?!?! My first reaction was a snort. Second was a giggle. Third was to race over to my fave online translator which came up with Horse landlord custody master.

At this point I'm in a fit of hysterical giggles with tears rolling down my face, trying hard to get control of myself because, quite frankly, my goal in life is to be considered a horse master/Pferdewirtshaftmeister -- in any language.

But seriously, and I realize I'm switching languages and blaspheming horribly here, when I tried to pronounce the word I sounded something like the Swedish Chef (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY_Yf4zz-yo)from the Muppets, which sent me over the edge again.

Maybe it's time to call it a day and get some wine...

PS As for the flash, I'm with the elves....

TheHorseProblem
Jul. 27, 2011, 06:40 PM
Buckle on left, end pointed down.

On your left facing the horse, which would be the horse's right, or the horse's left, which would be your right facing the horse?

~Pferderichtungsmeisterin
;)

TheHorseProblem
Jul. 27, 2011, 06:44 PM
Hausfrau Geschichte

Old wives tale?

Arizona DQ
Jul. 27, 2011, 06:52 PM
Always pointing down. Neat, tidy, and looks great in pictures.


I never have the issue of a horse moving it around because I never allow my horse to rub her face against her leg while I'm on her back.


:yes::yes::yes: On both counts!

AllWeatherGal
Jul. 27, 2011, 08:24 PM
Old wives tale?

Zactly. And that one I made up :)

However

Pferdewirtshaftsmeister
I plugged it into Google Translator. Had to dink around with it because the original post had it misspelled.

I dinna haff it misspelled! I copied and pasted yours and mine and theyz the same!


At this point I'm in a fit of hysterical giggles with tears rolling down my face, trying hard to get control of myself because, quite frankly, my goal in life is to be considered a horse master/Pferdewirtshaftmeister -- in any language.

Hey, I didn't invent the language, which is known for stringing adjectives and adverbs onto a noun for many many characters! And as worried as I was about training with a Chehrman Ridah, I gotta say, she's sweet, gentle, fun, supportive and a wonderful teacher as well as trainer.

Just think of Pferde as "ferd" and it all becomes manageable!

Alagirl
Jul. 27, 2011, 09:18 PM
Alagirl, is the horse in the first picture (red roan?) yours? He looks like a dandy!!! I'd have him in my barn, upside down, right side up, I don't care!

LOL, I WISH

but no, not mine :lol:

I don't think I got any pictures of my horse handy....certainly not in a digital format...

Alagirl
Jul. 27, 2011, 09:22 PM
Maybe a Hausfrau Geschichte, but it seems wiser to get a shorter flash strap than argue.Ammenmärchen

Wrecked my brain what hausfrauengeschichte could be! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Big_Grey_hunter
Jul. 27, 2011, 09:28 PM
In order to keep everyone happy, my (borrowed) flash is so long it points down, then wraps all the way around back into the attachment. So, it's up, down, right, and left!

For those of you having a heart attack, I will be cutting the fllash short once I buy a bridle with an attached flash. But, I can't mutilate someone elses tack.

saultgirl
Jul. 27, 2011, 10:04 PM
I buckle mine on my horse's left, with buckle pointing down, but I keep the buckle right up close to where it attaches to the noseband, not on the side of the horse's face or under the chin. I think it looks neater that way. Mine is too long and I really should cut it.

AllWeatherGal
Jul. 28, 2011, 11:00 AM
Ammenmärchen

Wrecked my brain what hausfrauengeschichte could be! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Danke schön!