PDA

View Full Version : Saddle for SHORT back



out west
Feb. 26, 2011, 12:42 PM
I live where there are no saddle shops, and the only fitters that come here rep only their saddles. I have a warmblood gelding with a VERY short back. Saddles with long panels make him sore over the loins. I like a deep seat and substantial block (long time lurker, I've read those posts) Suggestions? He is also only now level, was downhill for the last few years. Thanks!

Hampton Bay
Feb. 26, 2011, 02:15 PM
My friend has a Schleese Wave for her short-backed arab. It's the only thing that's truly fit him, and it's a 17.5" too. Everything else sat too far onto his loins.

friesian4me
Feb. 26, 2011, 03:07 PM
Schleese wave is great for short back and down hill.

Trixie's mom
Feb. 26, 2011, 03:41 PM
schleese and verhan are your two best brand choices for short backed horses.

buck22
Feb. 26, 2011, 04:00 PM
Plenty of saddles good for short backs, just look for short or upswept panels, that is usually a foam or part foam panel (which I happen to like).

Of the ones I've owned, ainsley, an older prestige, non gusseted passier, dominus, crosby, lauriche, kb santis, saddle exchange comfort, off the top of my head.

depending on your horse's build and your budget, give roosli and jaugar a look too.

opel
Feb. 26, 2011, 04:32 PM
After years of saddle-trying for my short-backed horse..........I have to agree with Buck 22. Look for a short and swept-up panel (the one that you sit on). The newer, comfy-looking big and flared panels that you see on most of the new saddles just don't seem to work. I like the Prestige 2000D, the Albion Classical, older model Passier.

SillyHorse
Feb. 26, 2011, 04:53 PM
My Trilogy Verago has allowed my very short-backed horse (he's only 15.2 so we're talking a really short back) to be comfortable in a treed saddle for the first time. It the right saddle, but in the end it's the saddle fitter who makes it work (or not).

Sakura
Feb. 26, 2011, 05:02 PM
I have short backed and very wide Arabians... the two saddle makers I have been most impressed with are Passier (Love my GG) and Lovatt & Ricketts (AKA Arabian Saddle Co.). They make saddles that fit the short and wide backed :).

eventgroupie2
Feb. 26, 2011, 05:05 PM
I have an older Barnsby model (Raven) that fits my short, wide-backed Arabian perfectly.

out west
Feb. 26, 2011, 05:29 PM
I've tried the Wave, I wasn't crazy about it, the Verhan looks great but I'm told it has a wide twist. Currently I am riding him in a Trilogy, but the panels are too long. Do the newer Prestige not work as well as the older? Does anyone have any experience with the D2? Thanks.

buck22
Feb. 26, 2011, 05:40 PM
Do the newer Prestige not work as well as the older? Does anyone have any experience with the D2? Thanks.
I have no experience with the D2 (D1??), but on the contrary, look at the models and how short and upswept many of the panels are
http://www.prestigeitaly.com/elenco.php?cat=2

CatchMeIfUCan
Feb. 26, 2011, 05:42 PM
I had a woman come up to me absolutely bewildered at a dressage show (we mainly evented). She looked at me and said, "where do you put the saddle on that horse?! There's no room!" I was just laughing! My horse was very short backed, and I loved my Niedersuss Symphonie. The block isn't huge, but you can definitely feel it there and the seat is very comfortable. It has pretty short flaps too.

Here's the little devil: http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2610344620105127499pbfoZT

And in his dressage saddle:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2954737490105127499UQnOCP

Wild Rose
Feb. 26, 2011, 06:48 PM
I had a 15.2 Anglo-Arab/Trakehner gelding with an itty bitty back. My 16.5" Passier GG rode up his neck because it was just too long for him. I think they come with options now for a shorter panel?? I ended up going with a Schleese HK (the Wave and Triumph have the same short panels), which worked. The Schleese's also have an option for a cut-back in the shoulder area to free up the shoulder. But the price tag is a little crazy.

Hey, I didn't say anything about being sane.:eek:

opel
Feb. 26, 2011, 07:15 PM
Yep. I had good luck with niedersuss also. I bet some of the newer Prestige styles would work well. I just don't have experience with them as I found the 2000D and the albion classical and haven't had to continue the endless saddle fit search. For my horse, the prestige tree is just a little tight under the stirrup irons and the albion tree shape a wee bit better--but this is extreme nit-picking and only relevant to my particular horse. Both saddles, in addition to the Passier GG and the Neidersuss, fit her without causing loin discomfort. I didn't realize that all of the saddles she liked have tiny little panels until well into my saddle search........then it became a trend too obvious to ignore.

GreyStreet
Feb. 26, 2011, 07:29 PM
My mare has a fairly short back. I ride in an older Barbsby Richard Davison and I love it. Found it for a great deal.

myvanya
Feb. 28, 2011, 12:31 PM
My mare has a fairly short back. I ride in an older Barnsby Richard Davison and I love it. Found it for a great deal.

Ditto this. Except my horse doesn't just have a fairly short back he has a really short back :lol:. He is also on the wider side and has fairly prominent withers.

Pic of him in the saddle here (and he is doing way better than the pic suggests- he was having a bad day but this is the best pic I have unfortunately):

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m472/valeskadavis/DSC_0053.jpg

cmdrcltr
Feb. 28, 2011, 12:46 PM
Sorry for being off topic, but CatchMeIfUCan I love your horse's mane! We had a lovely buckskin QH at our barn that looked great in a roached mane, but it was roached much closer than your horse's mane. How do you do that/maintain that so nicely?

out west
Feb. 28, 2011, 01:31 PM
myvanya, good picture and the saddle looks like a great fit, it is an older Barnsby? Looks like it has good blocks, how wide is the twist? Thanks

myvanya
Mar. 1, 2011, 10:26 AM
Thanks! So far it is working really well. Considering how hard it was to find a jumping saddle I lucked out with the dressage saddle.

Though I am not an expert I believe the twist on the Richard Davison is on the narrow side. Mine is a pretty wide tree as well (#4 with #5 being the widest they make). I find the blocks really comfortable and the flaps run on the long side which is a good thing for me as I have pretty long legs. I would have to check which year it was actually made but I haven't seen many. It was the first dressage saddle I sat in on my horse I didn't feel like I was riding down a hill in and was actually comfortable for my seat so I am pretty crazy about it :D I will see if I can dig out more info on it if you want- just let me know.

Kaluna
Mar. 2, 2011, 12:05 AM
Hennig?

shalomypony
Mar. 2, 2011, 02:01 PM
Verhan Odessey

Megsabelle
Mar. 2, 2011, 02:36 PM
I'll second the Neidersuss Symphonie! I also had a Stubben that worked on my short-backed critter as well.

out west
Mar. 2, 2011, 04:28 PM
Thanks, for suggestions; many of these I've only seen in pictures making it hard to guess what might fit my guy. At least I now have some places to start.

colorfan
Mar. 4, 2011, 08:40 PM
catchme, lovely pair you are, very nice. I bet he is a really good boy, he has such a focused look on his face.

swmets
Mar. 4, 2011, 10:28 PM
Passier JUST came out with a dressage saddle for "compact" horses.

springplainsfarm
Mar. 5, 2011, 05:07 AM
I just got a Hopfner saddle for my short backed Friesian cross mare. Made a major difference and I am very pleased.
Look at Skylands Saddlery........she has a large used inventory and also sells new Schleese saddles among others. They have a 14 day door to door trial for used.

Good Luck!

akrogirl
Mar. 5, 2011, 08:48 AM
My friend has a Schleese Wave for her short-backed arab. It's the only thing that's truly fit him, and it's a 17.5" too. Everything else sat too far onto his loins.

My mare (a WB with some AA blood) has a short back combined with huge, sloping shoulders. We ended up having to go with a custom Schleese Wave. Unfortunately, medical reasons have kept me from being able to ride her myself since we got the saddle, but a friend rode her in a clinic for me and the difference in my mare's movement was worth every cent the saddle cost.

Chemindefer1970
Mar. 7, 2011, 05:11 PM
I would go with a Prestige 2000D. I have an older one and it's a wonderfully comfortable saddle that really stays in place, even when your girth isn't very tight!
My horse has a short wide back and decent withers, so that can be a hard combination sometimes.
Another advantage to Prestige is that they can be adjusted about 4 sizes up or down, so you can keep them for years from horse to horse. Worth teh investement!
Good luck- saddle searching can be a real bear!

Carli
Mar. 7, 2011, 08:31 PM
I also have much to say about the Schleese Wave. My Thoroughbred has a long back, but short saddle support area. The Wave has done wonders for him. He goes quite well in it.

3s
Mar. 11, 2011, 11:57 AM
it's not the length of the back that is the issue, it's the length of the saddle support area itself that you have to accommodate. Schleese has some good videos about this on their youtube channel to help you determine the proper length for your horse.

Fancy That
Mar. 22, 2011, 12:27 PM
I'm scouring for information on this saddle, because I JUST bought a used one for my very broad-backed, round, Morgan mare :)

It's being shipped to me now, and I've contacted Lovatt & Ricketts directly to get more info on it (serial number)

I know it's made with a hoop tree, has upswept panels and is shaped so that the shoulder has lots of room. I'm HOPING it fits my mare, but I bought it "blindly" just based on the features/description and feedback I've heard about this saddle.

My mare has big shoulders, a wide back, not much withers, and is somewhat compact (15.3 on her tip toes)

I love that these are made in England, super high quality, and really have the back-shape in mind for Morgans, Arabs, Cobs, Friesians, Halflingers or compact WBs.

I'm excited about it! I just pray it fits. She's in the XW gullet on my Bates Close Contact saddle (we do eventing)

If it doesn't fit, I have to sell it......

Glad to see it mentioned on this thread! Check out my mares' back/build:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Fancy%20Family/Fancyreversedapplessmall.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Fancy_white_hairs.jpg[/



I have short backed and very wide Arabians... the two saddle makers I have been most impressed with are Passier (Love my GG) and Lovatt & Ricketts (AKA Arabian Saddle Co.). They make saddles that fit the short and wide backed :).

ChocoMare
Mar. 22, 2011, 01:01 PM
May I quietly poke my nose in here, cuz I have the same problem with my Clyde-X, Penny (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2913663190015305252odzMNv?vhost=pets)

I have a Stackhouse AP that sorta mostly fits, but she is coming up sore in the loins too, since it's just a bit too long for her short, scoopy back. It also isn't the greatest fit for me :( Penny's wide, but not table-topped, which is why my Duett didn't work on her either. :sigh:

I'm wanting to move to a dressage saddle, since I find sitting deep and tall is more comfortable for me, even tho I'm strictly a trail/pleasure/whatever rider now.

Would you all still make the same suggestions as you did to the OP? I did check the Lovatt & Ricketts models, but believe they're still designed more for the flat-backed/table top horse.

Thank you for your patience with lil ole' Non-Dressagy me :)

JanDinWA
Mar. 22, 2011, 04:38 PM
We have a Schleese Triumph for our short backed Morgan gelding. My husband needs an 18.5" saddle, but a regular one at that size is too long, so Schleese built this saddle on a shorter tree but made the seat 18.5" and it works really well. I can see where the Wave would also work well for short backed horses. I have one for my mare, but she has a long back.

Fancy That
Mar. 22, 2011, 04:56 PM
Actually, since your Clyde cross will have HUGE SHOULDERS, you may still need/want the hoop-tree on the Lovatt & Ricketss Ellipse dressage saddle.

Even though she isn't a table-top or what I call "propane tank" shape.....if you get one of their saddles with the MEDIUM or MEDIUM/NARROW tree (versus a Wide or Extra Wide), you may be in really good shape!

I have a Belgian draft who has a huge set of withers and is not a table-top/propane-tank either, but he has a MASSIVE shoulder and his back REALLY BROADENS QUICKLY, post-wither.

Definitely hard to fit these types....

The Lovatt & Ricketts I'm getting may be too narrow for my "propane tank" mare, if so, I'll have to sell it (for cheap too) :)

You can talk to Trumbell Mountain Tack - they are the BEST and are most familiar with dressage saddles for big shouldered and/or wide horses.

Meant to add: PENNY IS FRIGGIN GORGEOUS!!! OMG, that is my type of horse. Where did she get that HUGE ROUND curvy butt? She doesn't really have a draft-butt :) Love love love her.

May I quietly poke my nose in here, cuz I have the same problem with my Clyde-X, Penny (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2913663190015305252odzMNv?vhost=pets)

I have a Stackhouse AP that sorta mostly fits, but she is coming up sore in the loins too, since it's just a bit too long for her short, scoopy back. It also isn't the greatest fit for me :( Penny's wide, but not table-topped, which is why my Duett didn't work on her either. :sigh:

I'm wanting to move to a dressage saddle, since I find sitting deep and tall is more comfortable for me, even tho I'm strictly a trail/pleasure/whatever rider now.

Would you all still make the same suggestions as you did to the OP? I did check the Lovatt & Ricketts models, but believe they're still designed more for the flat-backed/table top horse.

Thank you for your patience with lil ole' Non-Dressagy me :)

buck22
Mar. 22, 2011, 05:32 PM
May I quietly poke my nose in here, cuz I have the same problem with my Clyde-X, Penny (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2913663190015305252odzMNv?vhost=pets)
omg she's gorgeous!

short, wide back, withers, uber curvy, big moving shoulders. To me says you need:

curvy tree, short/upswept panel, wide panels, wide channel for spine clearance (though if she's muscular you can probably get away with a medium width channel), possibly cutback head, half panels not a bad idea, with the correct shaped gullet she's probably a regular wide but could be as small as a generous M-MW.

not knowing your size requirements, or her gullet width, quick browse through ebay, these strike me as worth investigating:

flaps might be too forward though, and tree might not be curvy enough, but I had an old Barnsby and it was plenty curvy
http://cgi.ebay.com/Barnsby-Dressage-Saddle-Made-England-No-Reserve-/170617159418?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b9933efa

the back end might be too full on this one and press down harshly on her loins, it really depends on how the curve matches hers
http://cgi.ebay.com/Amerigo-Dressage-Saddle-/300536258430?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f95b5f7e

looks like the right curve and panel length, but can't tell gullet or panel footprint
http://cgi.ebay.com/Collegiate-Jessica-17-5-inches-Saddle-/270723106934?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f085ac876

this is probably a dead-on winner (though in hindsight perhaps a bit too banana in the very back end:
http://cgi.ebay.com/County-Competitor-English-Dressage-Saddle-3-17-seat-/320672066794?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa98b6cea

this too, probably a winner (really bad photos in this ad, I just so happen to know the saddle make/model well)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Frank-Baines-Dressage-Saddle-16-5-/220754046043?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3365f76c5b

in a wide with a less sloping panel angle:
http://cgi.ebay.com/DEMO-VEGA-AMERIGO-MONOFLAP-DRESSAGE-SADDLE-18-MEDIUM-/320670847276?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa978d12c

perhaps, for some reason it intrigues me for your mare:
http://cgi.ebay.com/USED-SIGNATURE-SAVOY-17-WIDE-DRESSAGE-SADDLE-/320670847314?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa978d152

hard to tell, but might be a possibility:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Prestige-Golden-Dressage-Saddle-/270721342549?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f083fdc55

also a maybe depending on how dippy she is by the wither area, the photo gives me the impression she's a M-MW-W depending on how well the gulllet fits her, she seems to have a lot of shapely-ness going on in the wither area :lol: if that made sense? this one isn't quite as far out of the realm as it seems:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Stubben-Romanus-Dressage-Saddle-17-5-Medium-Tree-/260753543000?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb61f4f58

this is just a 10 min stroll through the first page of ads on ebay.

ChocoMare
Mar. 23, 2011, 07:31 AM
Thank you for your kind comments on Penny and assistance on saddle choice. I'm quite verklempt actually... :sadsmile:

I bought her virtually sight-unseen 5 years ago from Babb-Murphy Ranch of Gays Mills, Wisconsin - via her ad on DraftWarmbloods.com. With just pictures and a video, I knew she was the horse I'd been wanting all my life. AND, yes, she's a PMU baby. Clydesdale dam, Standardbred sire. Sooo, she is built, colored and lightly feathered like a clyde, but moves like a standardbred... She out-trots everyone.

She was given a solid Dressage Foundation in her training, as well as driving single and double. She will also willingly and energetically jump whatever, as long as it's worth her while.... low stuff she just stomps on :lol:

I shall peruse the links provided above and give a holler to Trumball Mtn folks for trials. Hmmm, wonder if they'll take my Stackhouse in trade?

hometowngirl
Mar. 23, 2011, 07:48 AM
Just bought a Schleese Link II last week for my short backed girl, the HK and many of there other saddles fit her too this on was just a favorite for both her and I. As another poster mentioned freedom for shoulder movement is amazing and the support for the saddle is where it belongs. They also offer a 30 day trial so you make sure you like the saddle before you spend the $$ and yup the price tag can make you cringe but it it works for both of us like I think it will, it will be worth every penny. Taken care of should last a good long time.

I am in Michigan and Luanne Reaume came up from Toledo and she was wonderful and spent plenty of time with me explaining and letting me try various saddles. Was eye opening for sure. Good luck in your search!

ChocoMare
Apr. 22, 2011, 11:08 AM
Just bringing this back, cuz I'm peeking at a Frank Baines. Any input? Thanks

quietann
Apr. 22, 2011, 12:35 PM
My Morgan mare is not extremely wide, but she does have that broad flat back... and good withers. Just tried a MW tree FB Reflex last week and we both LOVE it. The panels fit her perfectly and it's comfortable for me (once I took out the huge blocks, which are attached w/Velcro.) Question now is can I find one with short flaps?

pluvinel
Apr. 22, 2011, 01:06 PM
I live where there are no saddle shops, and the only fitters that come here rep only their saddles. I have a warmblood gelding with a VERY short back. Saddles with long panels make him sore over the loins. I like a deep seat and substantial block (long time lurker, I've read those posts) Suggestions? He is also only now level, was downhill for the last few years. Thanks!

Spirig (makers of SRS saddles)
http://www.spirigsaddlery.com/
is going to be at some PRE show being held in Las Vegas on Labor Day week. I found them hugely accommodating for my extremely short-backed Lusitano.

QofDressage
Apr. 23, 2011, 02:02 PM
My Morgan dressage stallion has a saddle from JRD Saddles at www.jrd-tack.com, info@jrd-tack.com. They have semi-custom and custom saddles and are amazingly beautiful, hand-made and reasonably priced and most importantly, they FIT! Highly encourage you to investigate them. Mehrdad is the name of the saddlemaker; his sons also make saddles.

skykingismybaby1
Apr. 23, 2011, 05:43 PM
I have a Schleese Link II for my shortbacked DutchArab cross. Ronnie at www.skylandssaddlery.com found it for me across the country used about 6 times so I got a really good discount. Ronnie fitted it for my horse and checks it regularly. She told me this was teh saddle for my horse at Devon and I resisted for almost 3 months before coughing up the dough. It has made a world of difference in how he uses his back, I also have the cut backs for shoulder relief and he can really enthusiastically move forward and lenghthen now.

ChocoMare
May. 4, 2011, 10:46 AM
I have a chance to try a County Med-Wide. Any input from the masses? Thanks!

candysgirl
May. 5, 2011, 12:46 PM
I have a 14.2h Arab. I have a Stubben Siegfried for trails/jumping/whatever and I'm buying an old Stubben Aramis for dressage. Any Stubben I've put on him has fit his short back. He's not one to tolerate anything too long - he'll buck like a bronc.

A10Piaffe
May. 5, 2011, 03:41 PM
I also have a Lovatt and Ricketts for my short-backed anglo arabian. It fits her so well and it is very comfortable.

ChocoMare
Dec. 4, 2012, 11:09 AM
Well, after all this time of not riding due to poor saddle fit, I'm back because: I'm buying a County Perfection.

Should have listened to Buck22 way back when, but at the time, I didn't know of a County rep in my area. Found one through a local eventing barn during a clinic.

I tried the Competitor first, as Buck22 suggested, and it fit well. I did like it. But then I tried the Perfection (since that was the only trial saddle she had in a wide) and HOLY CRAP is it comfortable. Was able to comfortably ride a sitting trot. I got quite choked up.

I will be going with an Extra Wide, tho, since her back needs that extra 1/4" of clearance. A demo is on its way for me to try for five days before I write that -gulp check.

So to the OP and others still searching, just call a County rep and try one.

paulaedwina
Dec. 4, 2012, 11:23 AM
Well that's interesting! I pretty much gave up trying to find a curvy paneled dressage saddle with long flaps for a short backed horse and went treeless.

Paula

Maude
Dec. 5, 2012, 08:04 AM
My horse is a short backed, saddle fitting nightmare. Her back is broad, withers are not very high but wide (not muttony though), big shoulders and a short back. Combine that with a long femured 5'8" rider, and well...you get the picture. I've been riding her is a custom saddle built on a Passier tree that kind of works OK. I had an independent saddle rep out yesterday who also sell Schleese. She is, however, a fitter first, salesperson second. She looked at all 4 saddles I have and the two I have been using on this horse were the best fit. I picked the dressage saddle to get fitted since my young horse is my future dressage star. After watching me ride she explained why my saddle was not really great for my horse. Everything made sense. I tried 4 different Schleeses and the last was an HK. I think it is built on a Hennig tree. It was an 18" and was very comfortable for me. This model has extreme shoulder relief, very wide gullet channel and broad flat panels. We crossed the billets and did not use a point billet. Voila! I was happy and my horse's stride increased tremendously. It made me realize what a good girl she is to tolerate the saddles I had been riding her in. I have the demo for 10 days and if I want the saddle I can order one and rent the demo until I get mine.

The fitter won't sell me the demo as my mare needs one with the rear panels "chopped off". Her explanation is this: Shoulder relief keeps the shoulders from shoving the saddle back and to the outside (all my other saddles do this). As my horse develops and uses her shoulders better, the saddle will shift back off them a bit. This current saddle would then be on her lumbar area. Her lower back then would get sore and shove the saddle forward. It is fine for now, but the fitter said I wouldn't be happy with it as my horse develops. So, I have 10 days trial. I can rent this one until my custom ordered one comes in. The fitter will bring it and I then have 10 days to ride in it. If I don't want it I get 100% of my money back less the fitters fee of $150.00. Sweet deal. I am posting all this because others who live in saddle fitting hell with a short back horse may get some insight into what may help them. This saddle is uber expensive, but the tree is infinitly adjustable and guaranteed for life. Unless I gain a substantial amount of weight the saddle will suit me forever too. I am anxious to ride in it over the next 10 days to see if it really is the "right" one. I am cautiously optomistic! Hope this provides information to the OP and anyone else who has a hard to fit horse. Every other fitter I've had out has told me this is one of the hardest horses they have hver had to look at.

AllWeatherGal
Dec. 5, 2012, 08:53 AM
We have a Schleese Triumph ... This is what I just bought for my compact little TB cross. The fitter (not Schleese but a retired rep from the company who is local) tried to put me in a mono-flap Link II but I needed more room for my thigh, so went with the movable blocks.

retrofit
Dec. 5, 2012, 09:36 AM
Maude, I'm glad you've finally found saddle nirvana. Do you mind sharing which fitter you worked with?

Maude
Dec. 6, 2012, 08:05 AM
Unfortunately Retro I am back in purgatory on the way to saddle fitting hell. The Schleess HK stayed off the horse's shoulders pretty well, but slides to the outside at the canter in both directions and I just can't seem to ride in the darn thing. So, back to the drawing board. The fitter is more than wonderful (Terry Pieper in Carlisle, PA) and she has been the best person yet that has tried to help me. The horse is comfortable, but I have come to terms with my conformation and age and I need a minimalist close contact saddle that is short and cut out for big shoulders. I don't even know if such a thing exists. The saddle needs to be short too. When the shoulders shove it back it is too far back and then her lower back kicks it forward again...a viscious cycle. :(

kelampe
Dec. 6, 2012, 09:40 AM
I've got a 15.1 Connemara cross with the shortest back I've ever seen. We ended up with a Frank Baines Elegance because it has upswept panels that keep my weight from being distributed out behind the seat. I wouldn't say it's got a particularly deep seat, so it might not work for you. But you could certainly investigate other designs in his line.

Judysmom
Dec. 6, 2012, 10:03 AM
Ugh. I'm having the same problem. My horse has withers and a very short back, only has 17" between his shoulder and last rib. I had a hell of a time finding a jump saddle for him.

A pic of his back is my profile picture if anyone is interested :)

I'm actually having a new problem as his work has progressed its really freed up his shoulder and step, and I think even my super short jump saddle is interfering with his shoulder :(

I also have problems with the shoulder shooting the saddle off his back. I've been using an acavallo no slip pad under the saddle pad and a very thin no slip pad over the pad (too keep the saddle on the pad) and I think this scenario is pulling on his withers. ITS SO FRUSTRATING!!!!!

Going back to the breastplate, which when adjusted to keep the saddle in place, does interfere with his freedom of movement. SIGH.

I'm having Janie from Pelham saddlery out tomorrow for a fitting for a dressage saddle. Will let everyone know how I make out.

paulaedwina
Dec. 6, 2012, 10:25 AM
I was whammied by the treeless people. I was at the last Stablemates sale and was returning a Toulouse I'd tried on Fella (bridged) when someone I didn't know said, "Go treeless". I smiled politely, but had no intention of doing that -from everything I'd known about treeless. Well here is a picture of Fella http://www.flickr.com/photos/52967336@N00/8250241794/in/photostream

He's got high, Standardbred withers, a flat, short Percheron back, and wide Percheron shoulders. To complicate things even further, I have a long femur and am 5'8" so I'm looking for an 18. Right that's gonna happen. See the withers? Nothing stayed on without a breastplate before this EZ fit treeless with center fire rigging. Here's a picture of the endurance saddle -there are no panels under the saddle at the moment, he's modifying them for me so it looks a bit pasted to his back -I took the picture to show my maker what kind of modifications to his panels to make- but there is a treeless saddle pad under the saddle. But that aside, withers don't get mashed, no bridging, close contact, sweet ride. I've hacked out on this type of saddle (not mine, the one I borrowed to try out) with no breast plate, up and down hills, no saddle slip! Look at those withers again!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52967336@N00/8242001425/in/photostream/

Well the hussy at Stablemates whammied me because I've gone treeless and couldn't be happier. And the bonus is that my Amish saddle making guy has an English saddle version he's been testing! So I plan on having him make me a dressage saddle in 2013. I'm very excited; custom, treeless-but-rigid dressage saddle.

Paula

out west
Dec. 6, 2012, 11:35 AM
Hi Maude, Keep trying everything you can. What finally worked for mine was a total surprise. I had a saddle custom made with short panels etc, and his back got so tight he was unridable. In despiration I put a saddle made for my other horse, a Trilogy, on him and he loved it! I never would have expected it to fit, but I have used it on him a year and no problems at all. He is a 4th level horse, so very developed shoulder etc. I had tried an HK and hated it for me.

sanctuaryfarm
Dec. 6, 2012, 12:26 PM
My Trilogy Verago has allowed my very short-backed horse (he's only 15.2 so we're talking a really short back) to be comfortable in a treed saddle for the first time. It the right saddle, but in the end it's the saddle fitter who makes it work (or not).

I second this saddle the Trilogy Verago nice deep seat & keeps my short back horse happy

islgrl
Dec. 6, 2012, 12:42 PM
I have a Roosli Pilatus for my short backed horse. I LOVE it. Particularly because it falls into the "less is more" category so it doesn't weigh a ton, and it doesn't ride for me... :)

Maude
Dec. 6, 2012, 05:41 PM
ISLGRL, I have a beautiful Roosli that doesn't fit my mare. 17.5", M-MW tree. It is the correct length for her back, but needs thinner, wider panels, a wider gullet and a wider tree. The Roosli Luzerne (on Roosli's website) looks very interesting. It is designed for big movers with big shoulders. Unfortunately, no one in this country carrys that model. I wish Roosli had a US distributor that could measure and custom order a saddle, but I've been unable to find one. :(

Out West. Thanks. Good to know that I am not the only one that the HK did not work for.

Judysmom
Dec. 8, 2012, 08:53 PM
So I tried several saddles on Friday, and re-affirmed the fact that Mr. Orange Princess will not move unless the saddle has an upswept panel. Oh well.

I have a Jaguar on trial, its not bad but I don't think its quite right. The fitter has me using it with a half pad, she said that the 1/2 pad will give him more room for his shoulder (and the tree was a smidge wide for him).

I feel like the jaguar, even with the 1/2 pad, is bearing down on his trapezius muscle.

Of the saddles that might have worked, the Roosli, Amerigo weren't right, the Verhan was too curvy, and the Prestige balance was bad for me.

Maude, interestingly, the Roosli Luzerne looks like it would be right for my horse too. My jump saddle has a bit of a wither gusset, and I think that's what we need for a dressage saddle, but with an upswept rear panel.

Do wither gusseted, upswept real paneled dressage saddles exist????

My next try I think will be a Spirig.

Paula- thanks for the tree-less suggestion, but that's not a realistic option for this horse.

paulaedwina
Dec. 8, 2012, 10:11 PM
Fair enough, Judy's mom, but rest assured I feel your pain.

Paula

retrofit
Dec. 10, 2012, 08:46 AM
I came across a bunch of used Roosli Luzernes in a recent saddle-surf-fest - I think at Pelham.

Also, check out L'Apogee. They have an extreme shoulder-relief feature, non-gusseted panels that still manage to have decent weight-bearing, and the seat is on the shallower side. Flap length & block placement is customize-able. Horses seems to like them. The rep in Virginia is responsive and knowledgeable. I can find her contact # if anyone needs it.

Judysmom
Dec. 10, 2012, 07:45 PM
Thanks Retrofit

I just looked at Pelham, and they have one in a M! But... Mr. Orange Princess needs a M/W in Roosli.

I like the L'Apogee suggestion. Will have to look for used though, new is sadly out of my budget....

Dune
May. 26, 2013, 10:06 PM
I'm bumping this to see if you all who decided on "your saddles" ended up having long term success with them...;-)

out west
May. 26, 2013, 11:43 PM
The Trilogy is still working on my gelding, and I am still surprised as it wasn't made for a particularly short backed horse.

4wdNstraight
May. 27, 2013, 08:56 PM
I just had my Kieffer Luisitano adjusted and flat shorted, and it is even better! I really fires my mare, very deep and secure, yet I can move in it so I'm happy! Free adjustments for 2 years so thrilled. I almost forgot that I really wanted a Wolfgang Constanze.

demidq
May. 27, 2013, 09:28 PM
No-one has mentioned SOMMER saddles- infinitely adjustable (like a passier or schleese), made in Germany, available with a relief panel for shoulder freedom and with short panels for 'compact' horses. I have a Sommer Diplomat for my 15hh Arab/Hano mare. We had a Passier GG but even that was too long and pressed on her loins. I'm very pleased with this one, and more important the horse is comfortable.

Judysmom
May. 27, 2013, 09:53 PM
Well my saddle saga didn't go quite as planned.

I took a stubben genesis D http://www.doversaddlery.com/st%C3%BCbben-genesis-d-dressage-saddle/p/X1-15715/?eid=X18A00U1000&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=MerchantAdv&zmam=1460880&zmas=1&zmac=114&zmap=0015715008171X1-15715&gclid=CIyB17jWt7cCFZKk4AodvFsANQon trial - and it was perfect. (not the Cathrine Haddad one) Very upswept cantle, half panels and not too bulky for me, the knee roll was pretty unobtrusive. The horse's stride opened up unbelievably, his back and shoulder was so free.

Unfortunately, towards the of the trial, he got hurt really bad and ended up having to be put down about a month later.

My new horse just turned 4, and is about a year away from needing a dressage saddle (and he's rapidly growing lol) but he has a more normal length back. This dude will still need an upswept panel, but I don't foresee to many difficulties as his back shape is fairly standard.

Dune
May. 28, 2013, 11:28 AM
I just had my Kieffer Luisitano adjusted and flat shorted, and it is even better! I really fires my mare, very deep and secure, yet I can move in it so I'm happy! Free adjustments for 2 years so thrilled. I almost forgot that I really wanted a Wolfgang Constanze.

What does "flat shorted" mean? Is this a new saddle? The rep told you free adjustments for 2 years?!?! I've never heard of that before, wow!!!


Well my saddle saga didn't go quite as planned.

I took a stubben genesis D http://www.doversaddlery.com/st%C3%BCbben-genesis-d-dressage-saddle/p/X1-15715/?eid=X18A00U1000&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=MerchantAdv&zmam=1460880&zmas=1&zmac=114&zmap=0015715008171X1-15715&gclid=CIyB17jWt7cCFZKk4AodvFsANQon trial - and it was perfect. (not the Cathrine Haddad one) Very upswept cantle, half panels and not too bulky for me, the knee roll was pretty unobtrusive. The horse's stride opened up unbelievably, his back and shoulder was so free.

Unfortunately, towards the of the trial, he got hurt really bad and ended up having to be put down about a month later.

My new horse just turned 4, and is about a year away from needing a dressage saddle (and he's rapidly growing lol) but he has a more normal length back. This dude will still need an upswept panel, but I don't foresee to many difficulties as his back shape is fairly standard.

I'm so sorry to hear about your horse, that's awful! Thanks for the review on the Stubben....

Dune
May. 28, 2013, 11:29 AM
No-one has mentioned SOMMER saddles- infinitely adjustable (like a passier or schleese), made in Germany, available with a relief panel for shoulder freedom and with short panels for 'compact' horses. I have a Sommer Diplomat for my 15hh Arab/Hano mare. We had a Passier GG but even that was too long and pressed on her loins. I'm very pleased with this one, and more important the horse is comfortable.

Are there reps for these saddles? Honestly, I've never seen one or someone with one...I bought one of their bridles years ago and it's fantastic....

Daisydoo
May. 28, 2013, 11:41 AM
My horse has all kinds of saddle fit issues. He has a very short wide & very curvy back. High & long wither and a forward girth groove. To make matters worse, I need an 18 inch saddle. I have been riding in a Barefoot London for over a year and absolutely HATE it. Well, I finally found the solution!!!:yes:
Heather Moffet's new Flexee Saddle just came out. I have been waiting for this saddle for a year and a half, hoping that it would work for us. I have had it for a week now and it is WONDERFUL. It fits my horse, it doesn't slip into the dip of his back, It puts me in perfect position and it is extremely comfortable and stable. It has a leather tree and fits like a treeless, but to the rider feels more like a treed saddle. Oh- and all the thousands of $$$$ I have spent on saddles and saddle fitting- this saddle is only about $700. It's synthetic, no more oiling leather!:winkgrin:

paulaedwina
May. 28, 2013, 12:52 PM
Oooh I'm going to have to look into that. You and I have the same damned horse
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6029/5941461443_5c6a22ebea.jpg

and the same saddle needs. I have an EZ fit endurance that fits like a charm, but no dressage saddle.

Thank you so much!

ETA: Do you have a US contact person for this saddle?

Paula

4wdNstraight
May. 30, 2013, 11:45 PM
Sorry I meant flaps shortened!

jaybird660
May. 31, 2013, 06:48 AM
There are several options for the short back. The Balance saddle works very well for a wide short back. Saddles that have a more open seat allow a rider to work with a smaller seat and thus a smaller profile on the horse's back. Upswept panels are also an option but can be hard to find unless ordered specifically.
Many saddle companies are also willing to shorten a panel, for instance, Black Country and Schleese can do a 17.5 seat with a 17" panel.