Adults Riding Small Ponies

[patchworkpony]

I think this is the right area for this discussion since this seems to be the everyday riders.

I have had this discussion with many british riders, but I was curious to know what a more american group would think about this. What is everyone's opinion on riding small ponies. How small of a pony is ridable for an adult. Is it cruel on a small pony to ask him to carry an adult even if that person is really light weight? For instance I have a really over grown miniature/shetland that is about 10-11hh and around 400-450lb. I am 5'5" tall and just over 100lb. Is it okay for me to lightly ride my pony? Why? Or why not?

[patchworkpony]

I think this is the right area for this discussion since this seems to be the everyday riders.

I have had this discussion with many british riders, but I was curious to know what a more american group would think about this. What is everyone's opinion on riding small ponies. How small of a pony is ridable for an adult. Is it cruel on a small pony to ask him to carry an adult even if that person is really light weight? For instance I have a really over grown miniature/shetland that is about 10-11hh and around 400-450lb. I am 5'5" tall and just over 100lb. Is it okay for me to lightly ride my pony? Why? Or why not?

[colleent]

i think it all has to do with the stockyness of the pony and the weight distribution of the rider. a rider with good balance will be easier to carry than a rider who sits like a lump. and a stocky well -built pony will find it easier to carry an adult than a lean looking pony. plus a heavy saddle would not make anything easy. but i think if all the other thinngs are right, then have fun!

[Avra]

While you could probably ride a very chunky 10 hand pony lightly without hurting it, it would not be very comfortable. I am 5'4 (and much heavier than you) and I broke and showed ponies all through college. The smallest one I rode was about 13 hands, and I felt really, really big on him. Not so much that I was going to squish him--but my feet hit his knees. I felt like I was riding a hay bale--plenty wide, but nothing in front of me or behind me.

Unless it is a very naughty little pony, or you're playing ponyclub games, I can't imagine you'd want to ride it much anyway.

[arten]

I would have to agree with gothe distance on this one. It's important to bear in mind that all your weight must be situated between the 9th and 13th vertebrae ( according to the equine physiotherapists), and any weight bearing on T(thoracic) 14 can be very damaging. So if your riding a small pony as an adult, given that even if your a very small adult you still have a much wider hip and buttock span than a child, then your likely to be distributing your weight over areas that have problems compensating for this burden. Also if your pony, like many of the very small breeds, has never done any work before then it's likely to be very unfit, or even overweight, so it's much more likely that it may injure itself.

[fatmare]

patchworkpony, what did the Brits you talked to say about this? I read recently (can't remember where now, of course!) that the original Shetland pony *was* ridden by adults back in the day.

My first reaction to your question was that you riding a pony of that size would be no problem, but gothedistance and Avra made interesting points that I never thought off. I had a 13hh mare that I dragged home from a local auction several years ago and ended up selling, largely because I was worried about riding her. I'm 5'6, and was a little overweight at the time, pushing 160lbs, and while I felt perfectly fine about racking around on her on the flat or down the road, there was some tricky terrain on the trail that had me thinking that negotiating that plus my chunky butt and saddle might be a little too hard on her. Many people (esp. Paso people) told me that wouldn't be an issue, but it just didn't feel right.

[Amdri]

Today, there still exists a large group of ponies being ridden daily with much harsher demands on their performance than any we in this culture would typically ask. They are the Mongolian ponies, the Kirgiz.

Here is a link to some information on them
http://horsecare.stablemade.com/_articles/kirgiz.htm

They are amazing animals, and since they are all small, it is not considered an oddity for an adult rider to ride them for miles over difficult terrain.

The Kirgiz have been bred for generations for their strength and hardiness. I would have no qualms at all riding one for long distances. (I'm 5'7 and 140 pounds). I would be considered an average sized rider in that culture.

The question really doesn't seem to be whether "A pony" can be ridden by an adult, but whether a specific pony can be ridden. I would suspect many of our domestic ponies simply would not have the physiology and stamina to do well without risking structural damage to their backs, legs and hoofs. Many are are no longer bred for strength and stamina, but for color, size and "cuteness".

amdri
Curly Horses are Contagious
(there are also Curly Horse ponies out there!)
http://www.prairiegem.com

[patchworkpony]

My pony is very stocky. She look about as round as she is tall. I have not really ridden her, but I have sat on her back. She doesn't seem to mind in the least. However, I do not intend to ride her that much. I only want to teach her to accept a rider mounting without moving or nipping from there a kid can teach her to be ridden. I also talked to the vet and he thought it would be just fine for me to ride her regularly. Also when I talked to the brits they said many of them have ponies her size that they ride and jump over cross country type terrian. However, that doesn't mean I intend to do that with my pony.

And she already is a pretty good driving pony. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I taught her myself and she learned amazingly fast.

Oh, I just thought of something I heard a Indian lady say. She said that she was about 200lbs and was riding a 10 hh lightly built pony. She said that that was very common in India. The ladies there rode small ponies because they thought it was safer if they fell off.

[patchworkpony]

Okay first of all I am not dying to ride her!! Okay? That is not the issue, nor was it ever.

The info from the brits and what I heard from the indian lady were merely facts I was not trying to prove my point by them.

Also I do have a riding horse that I am riding regularly.

This was a discussion about whether adults should ride small ponies. Not a debate about my personal situation.

I just wanted to know everyone's feeling about this issue.

[wateryglen]

I remember seeing an article once that indicated the rule of thumb was that your weight should not exceed one fifth that of the horse/pony to stay safe and not harm the horse.
hmmmmmmm...that's why I started riding draft crosses! And I don't know if that INCLUDES the saddle. But it seems about right from my experience. I am a believer however that HOW the horse/pony is ridden is extremely important. Some saddles better than others for a heavier rider to horse ratio. Some riding styles, jumping or not, flat terrain or not, and the skills of the rider. Have seen some simply elegant and light appearing fat riders too. And some scary, clumsy skinny riders.
Me? I've been both!!

[patchworkpony]

It's okay gothedistance, the brits got crazy about this subject too. Everyone seems to have very extremely different opinions about riding ponies. So when they were like "sure go ahead and ride her" I decided to ask a american group of riders. Also I thought it was weird that my vet seemed to be okay with it. Why do you think he would have been so okay with it? Seems weird.

wateryglen~ Yes that is what I heard too. But I guess according to what the others said the pony must have a long enough back, so you sit over the correct part of the back. But, that doesn't make sense either... Doesn't a short back have more strength than a long back?? Help us out here, anyone?

[patchworkpony]

Naaa...that's the really dumb thing! I think my vet is really okay with it. You know how I know?? Because he rides a pony(he got for the grandkids) once in awhile that is only about 12-13hh and he's 6ft and 200lb. I know!! It's sad and gross too! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

I see your point of view too. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[patchworkpony]

I know that mental picture was gross!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[patchworkpony]

So, what about these big people that ride these small arabs. Would they be putting weight on the wrong part of the back?

[arten]

my understanding of the reason arabian horses are better weight carriers goes something like this ( please feel free to contradict me anyone with more knowledge of equine physiology).
Arabian horses have a number of special characteristics -a shorter back because they have one less vertebrae - and just as importantly denser bone structure.
The shorter back means that their centre of gravity is located directly central, meaning a rider is almost always going to be carried in the right spot. This also means the rearward action has a shorter distance to travel so the riders weight and the hindgut(which is smaller to begin with) is always being supported by both fore and hindlimbs. This differs from a pony with shorter legs and a short back, the pony's legs do not travel the full distance underneath and thus are not taking the brunt of this centralised weight. In addition, even though the Arab has longer legs, they are constructed of denser bone and can absorb a greater degree of shock than a horse with a lighter bone structure. However, bear in mind my previous post regarding the location that weight can be carried on most effectively, because the Arab has a shorter back this region is also smaller. They may be able to carry more weight, but it must be correctly placed - gothedistance, as an endurance rider you must have seen heaps of horses with back and leg problems as a result of poor tack and poor riding. Endurance riders frequently use saddles that are too big for their Arabs and these impede the shoulder and hindlimb movement. However, in Arabs back problems will as often as not manifest as lameness, rather than a particular pressure point on the back.
The Arabian has one other special characteristic - a very wide rib cage which distributes the weight in the required location over a greater surace area, with the one less rib enabling the hindlimb to travel further underneath the horse.
Now this applies specifically to Arabs -but what I have no idea about is why it is a general rule that a horse with a shorter back can carry more weight. Where are the equine physiologists when you need them?

[patchworkpony]

That brings up another question. What about donkeys? I mean look at this poor guy...check this link out!

http://www.blueridgetexas.com/EVERYTHING/donkeyball.6.jpg

[matryoshka]

I'm new here, so hello everybody!

I have a question about the pony. How does your saddle fit her? Are you going to use a child's saddle? If you use your own saddle, check to make sure it won't put pressure on the wrong spots on the back or interfere with her hips.

Having said that, I'll confess that I've ridden my children's 12.2 hh pony to straighten out her attitude when necessary. I'm 5'8" and @125 lbs (okay, now that it's winter, I'm closer to 130 lb). I feel silly doing it, but I have walk-trot-cantered her. Usually, I only allow riders under 100 lbs to mount her. I got this figure from the local riding school that provides pony rides. However, if I don't have the option of lunging her or hitching up the cart, I'll get on to remind her of good manners. I can squeeze into the Wintec child's saddle, and I've ridden her bareback. I wouldn't take her on the trail or anything.

I'm also now backing a 14.1hh "hony" (pony that looks like a horse). She's got a light frame and a long back. I took her on because she acted like a nut at the farm where she was supposed to be trained, and they couldn't do anything with her. My place is low key and seems to suit her better. Anyway, I'm only mounting her to get her used to a rider (prove that she CAN be ridden) and following cues. For trotting and more serious training, I plan to have a shorter rider that weighs 120 lbs or less--I don't want the pony to develop back problems before she is fully trained. I ride her in my endurance saddle, and it swallows her! It clears her hips, spine, and shoulder, so I think it is okay. She shows no sign of pain when I mount.

This is my long-winded way of saying that short rides shouldn't cause lasting damage. That sounds like all you want to do. I might even get on a 10hh pony for a few minutes if it was giving the rider a lot of problems. If there is a lighter weight rider with the right skills, though, that would be my first option. I think your pony will let you know if she has any problems with your weight. Pay attention to her body language and she'll tell you all you need to know.

Hey, post a picture if you do mount her! I wouldn't let the kids at camp take a picture of me on the 12.2hh pony. Maybe I should have and we could compare how silly we look. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Pam

[arten]

I know this isn't really the appropriate post, but I was interested in your comment (gothedistance) that you only sometimes have to untack at vet checks. I wondered why all the photos I saw of U.S riders at basecamp where under saddle!. We have to untack at every vet check!. I guess that is the difference between the VGIH system and our system. Do you get marked on back, wither, leg soundness at each check?

[prudence]

This is totally not my discussion as I am 6 ft tall and ride a 16.3 hand horse, but I wanted to add about when tack is pulled. Here in California the saddle is pulled at the "lunch" (halfway)stop on a 50, unless the weather is bad (cold or rainy) or some other difficult situation exists and then sometimes the vets want the girth loosened so they can feel the back. As GTD said, this is announced at the pre-ride meeting. The vets feel gently along the backbone to see if all is well. I think that eliminates the problem with "cold-back" horses (I could be so wrong with my terminology!!) who react to a thumb pressed hard in the back even when they haven't had a saddle on in months. There is something about rolling a nickle along the back to see that all is well but I haven't seen a vet do that.

What is your system? (and what is the VGIH system?)

[prudence]

I want one! Why do they all have work vests on?

Actually that is not far off from how I looked on my 14.2 hand Arab.

[JackSprats Mom]

Shetland ponies where bred to carry full grown men all day. Icelandic ponies are notoriously strong and again carry full grown men all day without any issues.

I think alot of this comes down to the bred. A 'true' pony should be able to carry weight (and by this I mean the New Forest/Dartmoor/Shetland etc) not the 'show' ponies which are bre for much finer bone.

I, personally, don't think there is an issue with Shetland carrying a 100lbs but as I said, it depends on whether this is a true Shetland or a minature (have very little experience on those)

JMHO

[arten]

prudence- VGIH = vet gate into hold.
Our system is different we have your standard pre-ride vet check, then on a 25 we have a post ride and on a 50 we have one in the middle as well, for 75 and 100( does that equal 100km's?) we have 1 vet check per every 25 miles. Each vet check has a mandatory half hour time for strapping e.t.c, then the horse has to be presented, then after vetting through you have a mandatory half hour before you can go out again -so all up an hour for each vet check. I think this is different because for the VGIH you guys can present your horse for vetting whenever it's pulse drops to below 55 or60, then I think you can go out straightaway?. Also our mandatory vetting period ( the whole hour) is not included in our riding time, whereas I think for you guys it is.

Also I know how you feel, I'm almost 6ft and find it damn hard to get an Arab that I feel comfortable on. Here, almost 95% of the horses in endurance are Arabs or high percentage partbreds - it's really not the done thing to ride something else!

(sorry about the hijacking of this thread)

[prudence]

Arten - thanks for the info. Here in California we have VGIHs too! Thought you were describing something in Virginia (duh!). Ours is similar for the half way point, which is either usually between a half and a full hour long, and sometimes has hamburgers. And the hold time does not start until you have pulsed down (usually to 60; the rate is announced at the pre-ride meeting). For a 50 miler (which is 80 km - easy conversion is 1 km = 5/8 mile) we usually have two "other" vet interactions which could be a VGIH with a 15-30 minute hold, or simply a VG where you pulse down and do a trot out, or a trot by. Whatever the head vet thinks is necessary to protect the horses.

Our times are 24 hrs for 100s, 12 hrs for 50s, and 6 hrs for 25s - including vet checks. So a 530am start for a 50 means you have to finish by 530 pm.

[Huntertwo]

I have a stocky 13.2 POA mare and I'm 5'4 about 135lbs and she has no problems carrying me. I gives me incentive to keep my weight down. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Huntertwo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gothedistance:
OMG! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Check out these pictures of a Shetland Pony troop (http://community.webshots.com/photo/472185472/472203292VJerMq) ridden by... you guessed it!! Talk about feet scrapping the pavement!! I'm still rolling on the floor, laughing my you-know-what off.

patchworkpony - I have just eaten my words in all subsequent posts. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


GTD, I love that picture and the ponies don't look unhappy at all. How did that picture come to be?

[patchworkpony]

Here is a picture of me on my wittle pony. I just hopped on for the picture. She did not like this bit for is really mouthing it. I think it time for a bigger one. Anyway I know it's a silly picture! But, you asked to see it!!
Me on the little pony (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a41/JessicaBe/441911687LnGDKA_ph.jpg)

[hoser1]

Great topic! I have another height/weight question for you. I'm 5'1 and 100 lbs. We're getting a 12 hand grade pony who is pretty round, but I would say medium build. What do you think?

[Huntertwo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">would have to agree with gothe distance on this one. It's important to bear in mind that all your weight must be situated between the 9th and 13th vertebrae ( according to the equine physiotherapists), and any weight bearing on T(thoracic) 14 can be very damaging. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm trying to visualize where the T 14 would be?
Could someone explain to me in laymans terms?
Thanks.

[matryoshka]

Hey Patchwork,

You do NOT look too heavy for that pony! I'll have to get a picture of me on my kids' pony. I'm almost afraid to see what I look like. If you can be brave, I maybe I can too. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[Auventera Two]

To the original poster - Thanks for sharing the cute photo!! I don't think you look too heavy at all, but you do look quite tall. Just for a few minutes here or there for giggles I think you would be fine riding your pony, but to seriously "work" and do anything over the long term would be asking too much.

Ponies are notoriously stout and capable of heavy load bearing, although you certainly can overdo it and cause harm. The Shetland part is a sturdy breed, but the Mini is not. Minis are not bred to be ridden at all. So I would just be very careful and at the first sign of fatigue, I would quit riding. Good luck!

This is a great, and very interesting, topic! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[rodandmicha]

I really enjoyed the photos. I'm pretty sure the photo of the Shetland troop was taken in Germany. I'm originally from there and grew up seeing grown women and men on ponies, same in England. These ponies were bred to carry large weights, just like it's said before, these are workponies, not the show kind.
I did read recently though that one should never ride a Minituare horse, not even little kids, they are solely bred for pulling carts and looking cute. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[patchworkpony]

If you thought that my riding picture was cute, then check out my pony in cart!! She is sooo cute!! I just want to drive home and kiss her little nose!!

http://community.webshots.com/photo/275224940/308082116smrGLZ

[Auventera Two]

Awww what a beautiful picture patchwork! Thank you for sharing, it gave me a smile! A big one! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[qwerty1989]

Hi, i'm new here!
To the original poster, I definetly do not think you are too heavy. I have a 11.2HH Dartmoor Pony called Trish - and she carries me fine for about 30mins at a time.
I am not exactly skinny - i'm 5'6 and touching 340lbs... so no, you're fine. Good luck with your riding!

[Jingo-ace]

Hi,
Just another thought here... imho.. a 1000 pound horse that is expected to carry a 250 pound rider - that is 25% of the horses bodyweight placed like a sack on his back... which I consider a bit rough on the horse - note this is just IMHO, k!

So a 350 pound pony @25% of his body weight should be able to carry about 88 pounds - again, imho, this is a bit much.

I know ponies are stockier than horses & I know ponies often carry higher weight than horses when experessed as a percent of body weight, but I personally WOULD NOT put more than about a 70pound rider on a 350pound 10hand pony.

That stated, ponies are resiliant resourceful little creatures... and you would probably be just fine...
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifJ

[qwerty1989]

nonono - the pony is 940lbs - i am touching 350lbs... a bit burlesque, but she's very sturdy!

[Xanthoria]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by qwerty1989:
nonono - the pony is 940lbs - i am touching 350lbs... a bit burlesque, but she's very sturdy! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's just wrong.

[qwerty1989]

What's just wrong?

[Xanthoria]

Well I know this is a touchy subject, but you weigh a bit over 37% of your horse's weight.

Generally as Jingo-ace says one would apply the 25% rule (or 20% which is what we in the UK were always taught) - a normal equine being able to carry *up to* 20% (or 25% if very stocky) of it's own weight. Maximum.

Then you'd want to consider your horse's length of back, which, on an 11.2 pony is going to mean a lot of your weight is on his kidneys and loins if you have a saddle that fits you - weaker areas.

My horse weighs 1100 and staggers if a 175# rider gets on (almost 16% of his weight), so really you have to take each case individually. But even so, I would never go as far as 25% personally, certainly never over it.

We have to be advocates for our horse's long and short term health and welfare, and feeling sensitive about one's weight (which you may or may not) should come a distant second to that.

[qwerty1989]

I only ride her for 30mins at a time - i find that if i ride her for longer than that she starts to show signs of fatigue.

My sister rode her bareback yesterday! lol - twas very funny...

[Xanthoria]

So, that would be like you carrying almost 130# for 30 minutes.

I know someone is going to get upset about my saying this, but that is not something I would do.

[patchworkpony]

Do you have a picture of you riding, qwerty1989?

[qwerty1989]

No, sorry i don't have any on this computer, i will try and scan some in in the near future.

[patchworkpony]

I think if you could post one it might help us know see what you mean.

[arten]

qwerty-I would suggest that if your pony is showing signs of fatigue after only 30 mins, then something is very very wrong with that situation. I'm not going to browbeat, what you do is your business. However, just a question Is your pony overweight or fit?. Something to bear in mind is that for every pound of extra fat that is put on, 4 miles of new capilliaries must be grown by the circulatory system to support it. Thats 4 new miles that have to be have blood pumped through them by the heart. So if your pony is carrying your weight and any extra weight of his own then this is probably placing an enormous amount of strain on his heart. Do you check his heart rate while riding?. I would suggest that if it getting into the 160-180 range and your just walking, then your pony is carrying too much and your actually damaging him. And that is probably an extreme HR -others would suggest that even if it's lower than that it is still causing damage. I think given the extreme weight ratio it would be very important to make sure your pony is well and truly warmed up and overall fit before you get on. Just some things to think about, I personally think your far too heavy for your pony, but I guess I have to presume that you are sensible and feel you have made the best decision for your pony.

[qwerty1989]

Trish is currently obese, hence the fatigue. I am working her hard to get her back into shape though - and i think my extra bulk helps to do this.
qwerty

[Weighaton]

An 11 hand pony at 900lbs? Obese is an understatement. Maybe Trish would do better if you let her get on your back and ride you around for 30 minutes.

[JackieBlue]

Does anyone else smell a troll?

[Evalee Hunter]

Yeah, let's leave qwerty & talk about US Pony Club standards. For games mounts (Games Rally), the weights allowed are:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> If someone is competing
on a pony that is 12.2 and under they may not exceed the weight of 117 (including
helmet and boots) if the pony is 12.2 -13.2 the rider may not exceed 150lbs, if
the mount is 13.2 - 14.2 the rider must not exceed the weight of 190lbs and if the
mount is taller than 14.2 there is no weight limit.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I realize that weighing the pony & using that would be more accurate but probably not practical at a rally so they use the height of the mount to determine the maximum rider weight.

[Prieta]

Please read every posting on this discussion board and see why we cannot allow ourselves to ride our small horses not equipped to carry our heavy weights. Answers are right there. I have no problem envisioning how much my horses would need to carry if I imagine how much weight I'd need to carry when I work. For example, I'd have no problem carrying 19 pounds or less. But, I will begin to have problems with my feet, knee, lower back, spine, etc once I start carrying more than 20 pounds. Please go back and read from the beginning on down. Listen to your horse - he talks A L O T!

[Prieta]

If your pony is obese, then follow what human trainer tell their ultra marathoners (swim, bike, and run in one day) on how to start their program. Start slowly and easy and build up on that.

[patchworkpony]

Yes. They told me on the other forum that I could ride my pony lightly only if she was really fit. If she was obese or overweight it was not wise for me, who was slightly big for her, to ride. Just like it is not good for a overweight human to overwork, it is not good for a pony either. It can cause all sorts of injuries.

qwert-Isn't there someone smaller who can work your pony to get her in shape? I know what it feels like to want to ride your own pony, but if it's not healthy for them we have to stand back and let the "midget" people do it.

Nothing against midgets, they are cool people! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif