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Kentucky
Feb. 22, 2011, 02:49 AM
Which is closer to dresage western pleasure or reining, I believe it is reining with its rollbacks, spins and other moves, granted there is nothing that touches the sliding stop in dressage, or a friend of mine said it was western pleasure which is the same as dressage only at a slower speed and with western great?

I do believe that reining is the basic of all western riding, a good trail horse will have an idea of reining.

steppingstones
Feb. 22, 2011, 03:04 AM
I learned to ride dressage 1st in a western saddle with the top pleasure horses and reiners in the country.

HOW? When training the pleasure horses you dissect them. Isolate each body part and the good ones move slow enough to balance and do some amazing collection work.

Reining you ride completely off your seat and the horses have self carriage in a very up hill way especially as they slide stop :) it is also very fast and extremely calculated and the pattern is equal to a dressage test in movements expected.
With this knowledge of taking the horse apart I now how to put them together and also how to help people who cross train with their quarter horses.

I got involved with the QH after growing up in the hunter circuit because of where I went to college, QH were the only thing they had!

I found that in the "congress" (the top QH competition) level horses there is a lot of abuse that goes on for the pleasure horses and I couldn't continue watching it happen so I learned what I could and got all my favorite horses sold to h/j people and stuck with the Warmbloods.

pattnic
Feb. 22, 2011, 10:44 AM
In Morgan world, they now have something called "Western Dressage"... dressage in a Western saddle. So I'm guessing that's closer to "regular" dressage than either reining or western pleasure.

I think that reining is probably a bit closer to dressage than western pleasure, but I also think that western pleasure, when done and trained well, should not be that different than dressage... just like a properly trained hunter (on the flat) should pretty much go like a lower-level dressage horse.

ideayoda
Feb. 22, 2011, 10:47 AM
Neither. Western eq used to be, cutting still does. But figures/exercises must have a purpose, which is what reining used to have. Now, on the forehand patterns would be suitable for cutting.

mp
Feb. 22, 2011, 11:11 AM
Reining would appear to be closer to dressage than WP, but I'd have to say neither is even in the ballpark.

You do certainly use your seat for both and there is a pattern to complete in reining. But there the similarities end. There is nothing in a reining pattern that calls for bending or correct lateral movement, so horses aren't judged on that.

The training and subsequently how reining horses ride reflect that difference.

Petstorejunkie
Feb. 22, 2011, 11:16 AM
Neither

princessfluffybritches
Feb. 22, 2011, 12:41 PM
Barrel saddles are good but the stirrups are too far forward. I picked a saddle that was closest to allowing a nice dressage seat, it's a Tucker Plantation. No horn. But Their "Buffalo" saddle fits the bill with a deep seat and a horn. I found that those saddles have the stirrups more underneath the seat rather than forward like a chair seat. I would never let go of my tucker plantation just for the reason that it has a nice balanced seat with my legs underneath me.

katarine
Feb. 22, 2011, 03:38 PM
They just don't have anything in common. I used to think so until I started taking dressage lessons and thinking about it from that side of my brain.

Reiners are drilled to look for the quit. You want the desire to whoa to be in that horse every split second. That's how you end up with lighting fast spins that can stop so suddenly...or the run downs to a whoa that aren't followed by backing the horse? Watch those riders silently urgently hustle that horse into NOT stepping backwards. Whoa and get back are the goal. This is the opposite of dressage's goal, a horse obediently awaiting go. Halting ready to GO again in an instant. Polar opposites.

WP? Well....those horses are mighty strong in their stifles, loins. They have to be to create the illusion they create. Intimidated into softness, hen pecked and checked into quiet and steady. Are they 'through the back'...well, in a manner, of a sort, then it all drains out their muzzles into a puddle on the ground. When they have to change the call from 'lope, let your horses go lope' to 'lope your horses, lope with forward progress'- really? You have to TELL these folks to let those horses cover ground- at a lope.

Apple, meet bruised orange.

netg
Feb. 22, 2011, 05:55 PM
With any trainer I would ride with in either discipline, both WP and reining are based on similar principles. Lateral movement and flexibility to allow there ability to lift the back/drop the head/slow and still carry. That said, the end goal of a slow, low energy, loose rein version of a stretchy trot (WP) or the tendency to stop in reining as mentioned earlier - both are very different goals, so while teaching a horse to carry itself and using one's seat properly should be present in every discipline - certainly they vary greatly in how work is used to get the desired result. I want to say reining is more similar just because of the impulsion desired, at least as they stand now.

Donella
Feb. 22, 2011, 11:58 PM
My mom just bought a reining bred QH and started up with lessons (with someone very successful in the sport) and I am suprised at how similiar reining is to dressage. Both reining and dressage horses must be very supple, straight, forward and very submissive/on the aids. The level of collection required in dressage is much more than in reining but there are definately similiarities in the training/developement. As far as I am concerned, western pleasure is the antithesis of both dressage and reining.

Reiners are drilled to look for the quit. You want the desire to whoa to be in that horse every split second. That's how you end up with lighting fast spins that can stop so suddenly...or the run downs to a whoa that aren't followed by backing the horse? Watch those riders silently urgently hustle that horse into NOT stepping backwards. Whoa and get back are the goal. This is the opposite of dressage's goal, a horse obediently awaiting go. Halting ready to GO again in an instant. Polar opposites

See, but you are missing the fact that, in order to do a good spin or slide, the horse MUST be very forward/in front of the leg (and straight...and supple). Lighting fast anything doesn't come from a horse that is taught to go slow or that is behind the leg. Reining horses think GO as much as they await WHOA...again, how else would you get that instant flash of speed for the rundown, or that instant speed on the big lope circle? So yeah, they wait for whoa (and think about putting their weight back onto their hind legs) but they do so whilst staying very forward. And isn't that the same as a top dressage horse? Yes, " go" is a huge part of dressage (but so is "come back" aka the half halt). We just use the impulsion we create out of the forwardness to do different things. They slide, we passage ect (ie different levels of collection).

Fillabeana
Feb. 23, 2011, 12:15 AM
Reining.
Western Pleasure horses, in order to jog slowly, and do that mangled, freaky slow lope, have every bit of impulsion drilled out of them. NO self carriage as it applies to collection.

I've ridden plenty of dressage horses, and a couple of well-trained reiners. I had no instruction while riding, but thought through the , ok, I want the horse to spin by moving his shoulders, so my seat bones would...and everything 'translated' beautifully to the horse, to be ridden 'dressage' and have the output be 'reining'. (Here's a sliding stop, here's a lead change...it was a BLAST!!) There is collection, self carriage, and impulsion in these horses. 'Wait on me', or 'don't anticipate', is also taught to a reining horse as it is to a dressage horse. There is also some lateral work. Unfortunately in my experience, there is also sometimes rollkur.
Pure dressage it isn't, but the really good horsemen learn and practice basic dressage movements to get reiners well trained, including lateral work, counter-canter, etc.

Western Pleasure horses, you have to take impulsion out to get the 'right' gaits. My late friend, shortlisted for dressage in an Olympic year long ago, trained with Pojhadsky (sp!!), bemoaned having to train any horse who had been taught to show WP, they tended to shut down impulsion rather than collect themselves when being trained for dressage. In her experience it was really difficult to get them over that. And if they've been trained in draw reins to break at the 3rd vertebra, it is really hard to get them properly on the bit.

mypaintwattie
Feb. 23, 2011, 02:12 AM
Western Riding. Not just farting around in a western saddle, but the actual Western Riding class. Watching a well trained western riding horse is amazing- the tests require accurate figures, serpentines, flying changes, all done on a loose rein:D.

http://www.aqha.com/Showing/World-Show/Open-Western/Junior-Western-Riding.aspx

http://www.aqha.com/Showing/World-Show/Open-Western/Senior-Western-Riding.aspx

kaluha2
Feb. 23, 2011, 06:20 AM
"Dressage's western cousin"

Sweet Baby Jesus---take me now.

However, if for some reason I could only ride western it definately would be the Western Riding Class.

However again, not so much the way this class is ridden in either of the two videos posted. I prefer the way it was ridden a few moons ago. The lope was an actualy lope and the posture was not the way it is today.

Fillabeana
Feb. 23, 2011, 03:36 PM
The fellows doing Vaquero Bridle Horsemanship are actually doing dressage- not some sort of cousin to dressage.

Rather than jumping or training for some sort of warfare, though, their finished horses are trained so that you can use a rope to subdue a calf, an angry bull, or even (in extreme cases, but it HAS happened) a grizzly bear (with help, of course).

I do admire the horsemanship in the western riding classes.

I think the reining would be a lot closer to dressage if there collective marks given. I saw a frightening video of a horse who performed the maneuvers very well, but between them had been trained to put his nose 6 inches from the ground. It was bizarre.

Kyzteke
Feb. 23, 2011, 03:46 PM
Western Riding. Not just farting around in a western saddle, but the actual Western Riding class. Watching a well trained western riding horse is amazing- the tests require accurate figures, serpentines, flying changes, all done on a loose rein:D.

http://www.aqha.com/Showing/World-Show/Open-Western/Junior-Western-Riding.aspx

http://www.aqha.com/Showing/World-Show/Open-Western/Senior-Western-Riding.aspx


I watched part of the first video -- as soon as the rider put his poor horse into that mangled, 4-beat thing they call a "canter" I had to go. The horse looks crippled. Sorry, there is little that I relate to classical dressage in that performance.:no::no:

Kyzteke
Feb. 23, 2011, 03:51 PM
The fellows doing Vaquero Bridle Horsemanship are actually doing dressage- not some sort of cousin to dressage.

Rather than jumping or training for some sort of warfare, though, their finished horses are trained so that you can use a rope to subdue a calf, an angry bull, or even (in extreme cases, but it HAS happened) a grizzly bear (with help, of course).


I think this is closest to the truth if you are trying to link classical dressage and some form of "western" riding. The vaquaro tradition, from which the current "buckaroo" or "cowboy" method of training (think Ray Hunt, Buck Brannamen, et al) sprang is all about total control of your horse's parts, with lateral work & collection being key. Perhaps they didn't use quite as much precision, and certainly not as much contact (although to say there is NO contact is false, IMHO), because they had a job to do. This wasn't for show.

I hesitated to post this video (although I believe it has been posted on COTH before) because of the setting, but try to get past it and just look at the horse and the way he moves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgG_Gwy7Ysg

Look at the rider's seat and leg cues. This is as close to dressage movements as you can get with a bull on your butt! And NO, I hate the idea of bullfighting or putting a horse in danger...let's please not get off on that....but just for the sheer enjoyment of watching this horse & rider work together...this stallion truly has all the moves. And this is the sort of "finished bridle horse" the vaquaro tradition and Californio cowboy school strive for. In my mind, there is no modern classical dressage horse who can move any better.

So maybe there isn't a modern day "show" equivilent to this sort of riding, but trust me, this level of horsemanwhip is still be taught, shown and advocated with the serious cowboy horseman.

kdow
Feb. 23, 2011, 04:16 PM
I watched part of the first video -- as soon as the rider put his poor horse into that mangled, 4-beat thing they call a "canter" I had to go. The horse looks crippled. Sorry, there is little that I relate to classical dressage in that performance.:no::no:

I have to admit, if I had a horse come in from the field suddenly moving like that, I'd be calling the vet out for a lameness check. They just don't look like they're moving right.

Kyzteke
Feb. 23, 2011, 07:45 PM
I have to admit, if I had a horse come in from the field suddenly moving like that, I'd be calling the vet out for a lameness check. They just don't look like they're moving right.


I'd never seen a WP class before. My first opportunity I was all set to go tell this one lady in the ring her horse was SERIOUSLY off in the rear. Imagine my incredible surprise when that horse won the class!!:D My friends were rolling on the floor in absolute hysterica and never let me hear the end of it....:winkgrin:

But truly -- that is a seriously weird gait.

ridealot
Feb. 23, 2011, 09:42 PM
Neither

I agree with this.........having reining horses that have transitioned to dressage it is very different. Retraining is interesting.

Kentucky
Feb. 23, 2011, 11:47 PM
Haha, I must say, I have gotten several different answners than what I exspected, some of them I never thought about. Allot of the answner in my mind is related how you view dressage; a refined art (the Spanish riding school), the building block/ foundation of English style riding, as an exercise to build build team work between horse and rider, or something totally different that any of these and how that view is compared to how you veiw reining and western pleasure and western riding as a whole.
of course the reining vs dressage video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF6bfJkhPEc

englishcowgirl
Feb. 24, 2011, 01:37 AM
Actually, western riding is based on dressage. It started in Spain? to work cattle and was adapted to suit that need. In American it was adapted and branched out to all the styles we see today. There is a neck rein in English riding as well, even though it is not really used often. I know I will get flamed for this, but riding in a dressage saddle and a western saddle feel very similar to me. As always, good riding and a good horse are exactly that.

Kentucky
Feb. 24, 2011, 01:52 AM
According to some authers (Ann Hyland is one) modern western riding came from the Romans to Spain and then to the Americas.

katarine
Feb. 24, 2011, 10:53 AM
My mom just bought a reining bred QH and started up with lessons (with someone very successful in the sport) and I am suprised at how similiar reining is to dressage. Both reining and dressage horses must be very supple, straight, forward and very submissive/on the aids. The level of collection required in dressage is much more than in reining but there are definately similiarities in the training/developement. As far as I am concerned, western pleasure is the antithesis of both dressage and reining.

Reiners are drilled to look for the quit. You want the desire to whoa to be in that horse every split second. That's how you end up with lighting fast spins that can stop so suddenly...or the run downs to a whoa that aren't followed by backing the horse? Watch those riders silently urgently hustle that horse into NOT stepping backwards. Whoa and get back are the goal. This is the opposite of dressage's goal, a horse obediently awaiting go. Halting ready to GO again in an instant. Polar opposites

See, but you are missing the fact that, in order to do a good spin or slide, the horse MUST be very forward/in front of the leg (and straight...and supple). Lighting fast anything doesn't come from a horse that is taught to go slow or that is behind the leg. Reining horses think GO as much as they await WHOA...again, how else would you get that instant flash of speed for the rundown, or that instant speed on the big lope circle? So yeah, they wait for whoa (and think about putting their weight back onto their hind legs) but they do so whilst staying very forward. And isn't that the same as a top dressage horse? Yes, " go" is a huge part of dressage (but so is "come back" aka the half halt). We just use the impulsion we create out of the forwardness to do different things. They slide, we passage ect (ie different levels of collection).

I didn't say reiners were slow. I didn't say they were behind the leg. but watch one bounce that face trying to find the exactly place they quit getting picked at in the face....then carefully shaped into a spin- it's not forward, it's balanced on a knife edge of almost forward....but it just isn't. I said they are trained to be looking for the quit in an instant and frankly, I know enough that you won't change my opinion, esp by putting words in my mouth ;) Again: Watch the sliding stop- a stop that isn't followed by backing up. Watch those riders hustle that horse into standing and not backing up. They are drilled on stop, and they are drilled on get back. They have to be, if you want them to commit their butt to the dirt and get down in it...Take a dressage horse down centerline, halt, and see him put 2-3 steps into reverse, oh CRAP there goes that movement. Dressage horses are drilled forward, reiners, backwards. It's ok :) they aren't after the same goal. If you want a big ass winning whoa in a sliding stop, you want that commitment to getting in the ground...you drill them to stop and back it up. Scampering a big fast circle, wide open as a case knife, hollow, nose out, hauling ass...is not forward so much as fast, or necessarily in front of the leg, so no: that is not the same as a dressage horse.

Neither is better than the other, but they are not kissing cousins.

Kyzteke
Feb. 24, 2011, 12:50 PM
According to some authers (Ann Hyland is one) modern western riding came from the Romans to Spain and then to the Americas.

That's weird she should attribute to Rome since they rode with minimal saddles -- certainly nothing like a western saddle.

As you said, I guess first you would have to define "western" riding. What makes it "western?" The saddle? Riding with one hand?

Rangergirl56m
Feb. 24, 2011, 12:55 PM
Take a dressage horse down centerline, halt, and see him put 2-3 steps into reverse, oh CRAP there goes that movement. Dressage horses are drilled forward, reiners, backwards. It's ok :) they aren't after the same goal. If you want a big ass winning whoa in a sliding stop, you want that commitment to getting in the ground...you drill them to stop and back it up. Scampering a big fast circle, wide open as a case knife, hollow, nose out, hauling ass...is not forward so much as fast, or necessarily in front of the leg, so no: that is not the same as a dressage horse.

Agreed.

QacarXan
Feb. 26, 2011, 08:47 PM
According to some authers (Ann Hyland is one) modern western riding came from the Romans to Spain and then to the Americas.

Actually many of the techniques of the ranching traditions of Spain, which were then transplanted and modified to suit local needs in the West, derived from North African, Middle Eastern, and Persian riding traditions brought to Spain during the 7 centuries of Muslim rule. Western riding has a lot in common with Eastern (as in Middle Eastern!) riding traditions.

http://bit.ly/gPTHd0

spirithorse
Feb. 26, 2011, 09:48 PM
The 'modern' western pleasure horse and reiner are not in the correct frame as required. However, having had the pleasure when I was 17 of actually being on a cattle ranch, I was schooled in the basics of dressage for our 'working cow' horses.
Today I strive to ultimately ride my dressage horses with one hand. Time and patience is require to make a truely finished horse no matter what the venue. That appears to be lacking in modern competition no matter what equine sport.
Canter full side pass...how many modern GP dressage horses could do it?
A working cow horse must be able to do it and that requires great agility.

Go Fish
Feb. 26, 2011, 11:59 PM
The 'modern' western pleasure horse and reiner are not in the correct frame as required. However, having had the pleasure when I was 17 of actually being on a cattle ranch, I was schooled in the basics of dressage for our 'working cow' horses.
Today I strive to ultimately ride my dressage horses with one hand. Time and patience is require to make a truely finished horse no matter what the venue. That appears to be lacking in modern competition no matter what equine sport.
Canter full side pass...how many modern GP dressage horses could do it?
A working cow horse must be able to do it and that requires great agility.

Boy, you're just an expert on everything, aren't you?

horsefaerie
Feb. 27, 2011, 02:30 AM
I have had the pleasure of riding some horses that were trained for either reining or working cow horse. I can tell you that they make exemplary dressage horses. They are forward and travel in a similar frame and are responsive to seat and leg aids. They do not look like the gray in the video.

Were able to give me SI and HI when asked altho not formally trained to it.

Those two disciplines would be my pick.

Of course the saddle was big enough for me to take a bath in and painful to boot.

cheektwocheek
Feb. 27, 2011, 12:17 PM
Not my cup of tea.


http://www.newhorizonsvt.com/ourvideos.html

QacarXan
Feb. 27, 2011, 12:18 PM
The leg cues in this video are interesting, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo0c4iFqVik&feature=related

Mongolian cowboys use a lasso on a long pole rather than one like the North American version.

Really interesting to see the similarities and differences in these traditions. The leg cues are really something in common it seems, across the board.

mypaintwattie
Feb. 27, 2011, 09:39 PM
Here you go, western dressage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iClJgY2DyrI
:D

PeanutButterPony
Feb. 27, 2011, 11:02 PM
The 'modern' western pleasure horse and reiner are not in the correct frame as required. However, having had the pleasure when I was 17 of actually being on a cattle ranch, I was schooled in the basics of dressage for our 'working cow' horses.
Today I strive to ultimately ride my dressage horses with one hand. Time and patience is require to make a truely finished horse no matter what the venue. That appears to be lacking in modern competition no matter what equine sport.
Canter full side pass...how many modern GP dressage horses could do it?
A working cow horse must be able to do it and that requires great agility.

and one chain around one pastern, no?

spirithorse
Feb. 27, 2011, 11:15 PM
and one chain around one pastern, no?

As for the chains;
it is apparent that you and others are so rapped up in being negative that you cannot bother to inquire as to how and why.

I had been schooled on how to use them before I attempted.

1. The horse had been schooled by others and they could not get him to pick up his feet. He literally let his toes drag.
2. He never did anything except slow trot with them on.
3. He only wore them approximately six times.
4. Never did he receive any injury or hair rubbing off.
5. The chains were light weight.

And this has been the only horse in 40 years that I have used them.......

So get off your high saw horses.

poltroon
Feb. 27, 2011, 11:18 PM
I think there are lessons to be learned from both reining and dressage.

I think the reiners can learn something about flexibility and longevity from the dressage riders.

I think the dressage riders can learn something about lightness and autonomy from the reining riders.

appyreiners
Feb. 28, 2011, 01:22 AM
I think there are lessons to be learned from both reining and dressage.

I think the reiners can learn something about flexibility and longevity from the dressage riders.

I think the dressage riders can learn something about lightness and autonomy from the reining riders.


Yes!

The goal of a reining run is to have total control of every step.

Today, my reining horse worked on counter canter, lateral work, my incorrect version of shoulder in and haunches in, and tracking up under himself and doing a good working trot.

I also steal from the eventing board on long slow distance and conditioning.

He is ten and improves on his reining every year. I plan on showing him for the next ten years or so. Dropping a shoulder or being behind my leg will result in a lousy score, and makes for a bad ride. The focus of our training rides is conditioning and responsiveness. I lurk on COTH to get different ideas and a different perspective on how to proceed.

There is always something to be learned from the best of any discipline (and you can learn about what not to do from the worst in any discipline).

Reining is not dressage, but we use a lot of it to get a good run.:)

hntrjmprpro45
Feb. 28, 2011, 02:14 AM
IMO (as someone who has competed a lot in the western divisions), it would hands down be the trail class. Obviously you have obstacles which are not in sync with dressage but you have collection, LOTS of lateral work, bending, flying changes, etc. At one world show we had to lope through a "wagon wheel". Basically the groundpoles were set on a TINY circle (all ground poles were touching so 25' diameter). The degree of collection the horses needed to be able to maintain the canter while hitting the correct distance between the poles and making the tight turn was insane- and needless to say only a few could keep their horses on it for the full circle. I have also been asked to do flying changes 2 strides apart (not as common in trail) and there are a lot of precise transitions.

The biggest difference of course is the rein contact and subsequent head carriage. However, watch some of the junior horses that still go in snaffles (two handed) and are still young/green enough to be forward. You'll start to really see the dressage potential in those (just not so much with the peanut rollers).

Donella
Feb. 28, 2011, 09:26 AM
I don't think anyone said that reining and dressage are the same or that they have the same goals. But a reining horse, like a dressage horse must be forward, quick off of the aids, supple, relaxed, very straight and submissive in order to be good. Because they must both do the above they very likely share some of the same training philosophies (I know they do).

And by the way, one had better be able to back up a dressage horse just fine and send it forward again. The desire to go forward should be present all the time in both reining and dressage horses. In dressage we ask for a backup in the test. If the horse doesn't go immediately forward then he is not "forward thinking" in the backup and is penalized. Neither horses back up as an evasion to forwardness and both "think" forward in all of the movements (even the reverse and halt).

MysticOakRanch
Feb. 28, 2011, 01:24 PM
I don't think anyone said that reining and dressage are the same or that they have the same goals. But a reining horse, like a dressage horse must be forward, quick off of the aids, supple, relaxed, very straight and submissive in order to be good. Because they must both do the above they very likely share some of the same training philosophies (I know they do).



Yes to all the above, and don't forget, a good reining horse must be able to SIT and use its hind end too. Sliding stops, quick take offs, spins, all involve an ability to sit down - not the same, but a few of the same deep seated theories as piaffe, rein back, and pirouette. They are very different disciplines, but with a few commonalities. A good reiner is an incredible, light, responsive athlete. Another thing the two sports have in common -the rider better be balanced and skilled and have a darn good seat! I'd say, if you are comparing dressage to a western discipline, reining is the closest.

spotrod
Mar. 1, 2011, 02:13 PM
I think this is closest to the truth if you are trying to link classical dressage and some form of "western" riding. The vaquaro tradition, from which the current "buckaroo" or "cowboy" method of training (think Ray Hunt, Buck Brannamen, et al) sprang is all about total control of your horse's parts, with lateral work & collection being key. Perhaps they didn't use quite as much precision, and certainly not as much contact (although to say there is NO contact is false, IMHO), because they had a job to do. This wasn't for show.

I hesitated to post this video (although I believe it has been posted on COTH before) because of the setting, but try to get past it and just look at the horse and the way he moves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgG_Gwy7Ysg

Look at the rider's seat and leg cues. This is as close to dressage movements as you can get with a bull on your butt! And NO, I hate the idea of bullfighting or putting a horse in danger...let's please not get off on that....but just for the sheer enjoyment of watching this horse & rider work together...this stallion truly has all the moves. And this is the sort of "finished bridle horse" the vaquaro tradition and Californio cowboy school strive for. In my mind, there is no modern classical dressage horse who can move any better.

So maybe there isn't a modern day "show" equivilent to this sort of riding, but trust me, this level of horsemanwhip is still be taught, shown and advocated with the serious cowboy horseman.

OMG, That is not any form of western but a form of spanish dressage for bullfighters! As for VSAG at the world, That is a true LOPE not a canter but a lope her shoulders are up and back is round! Awesome AQHA WP Horse!

Kyzteke
Mar. 1, 2011, 07:24 PM
OMG, That is not any form of western but a form of spanish dressage for bullfighters! As for VSAG at the world, That is a true LOPE not a canter but a lope her shoulders are up and back is round! Awesome AQHA WP Horse!

Again, we would have to define what is "western" riding. So far, no one has. Is it defined by the saddle, riding with one hand or what?

And I would love someone to explain the difference between a "lope" and a "canter". Are they not both 3 beat gaits, using the legs in the same order?

The horse in the video is simply VERY collected.

hundredacres
Mar. 1, 2011, 07:32 PM
Western Riding. Not just farting around in a western saddle, but the actual Western Riding class. Watching a well trained western riding horse is amazing- the tests require accurate figures, serpentines, flying changes, all done on a loose rein:D.

http://www.aqha.com/Showing/World-Show/Open-Western/Junior-Western-Riding.aspx

http://www.aqha.com/Showing/World-Show/Open-Western/Senior-Western-Riding.aspx

Too hard to watch. The lope looks EXACTLY like my 10 year old arthritic Husky looks "loping" through 12 inches of snow. Ick. Blech.