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sjdressage
Feb. 18, 2011, 02:44 PM
A friend and I were talking about the state of racing today and the subject came up of how the unwritten rules of etiquette between trainers/owners are fading away as big factory type barns become the norm. The level of class is eroding. I can think of two examples, give me a few more...
1-You don't claim from trainers in your own barn.
2-You don't claim off the little guy and clean out their barn.

Dahoss
Feb. 18, 2011, 05:49 PM
One thing I have noticed these days are certain trainers having grooms do a horse up(legwork) with the same thing every single day. And then there are those barns who are going to even greater extremes by having ALL horses done up with the exact same product every single day.

Gone are the days of checking each individuals legs and doing the legwork according to what each horse needs done for that particular day.

Many barns today arent anything other than an assembly line similar to an auto factory. This is what happens when one comes to rely more on vet and needle work and less on horsemanship skills

sjdressage
Feb. 18, 2011, 06:47 PM
One thing I have noticed these days are certain trainers having grooms do a horse up(legwork) with the same thing every single day. And then there are those barns who are going to even greater extremes by having ALL horses done up with the exact same product every single day.

Gone are the days of checking each individuals legs and doing the legwork according to what each horse needs done for that particular day.

Many barns today arent anything other than an assembly line similar to an auto factory. This is what happens when one comes to rely more on vet and needle work and less on horsemanship skills

I have seen this. I find it scary when they do the horse up in plastic every day creating heat in a leg when sometimes the horse worked hard and needs heat drawn out.

Blinkers On
Feb. 18, 2011, 09:52 PM
One thing I have noticed these days are certain trainers having grooms do a horse up(legwork) with the same thing every single day. And then there are those barns who are going to even greater extremes by having ALL horses done up with the exact same product every single day.

Gone are the days of checking each individuals legs and doing the legwork according to what each horse needs done for that particular day.

Many barns today arent anything other than an assembly line similar to an auto factory. This is what happens when one comes to rely more on vet and needle work and less on horsemanship skills

Disagree. We are HUGE and yet all horses are checked daily and the individual needs attended to. BUT the basic routine IS the same fr all horses. Grooms aren't geniuses. They are workers. Simple is best

Dahoss
Feb. 18, 2011, 10:36 PM
Disagree. We are HUGE and yet all horses are checked daily and the individual needs attended to. BUT the basic routine IS the same fr all horses. Grooms aren't geniuses. They are workers. Simple is best


Did I say ALL trainers, or did I say "certain" trainers? Check out Matz barn for example. Every horse is done up in fours with Green Cool...everyday.

And I disagree. Simple isnt best for the horse. Correctly, is best.

Texarkana
Feb. 18, 2011, 11:51 PM
A friend and I were talking about the state of racing today and the subject came up of how the unwritten rules of etiquette between trainers/owners are fading away as big factory type barns become the norm. [/B]


Maybe I'm simultaneously too close and too far removed from the topic at hand, but I don't see it that way. I don't think "factory barns" are any more dominant today than they were 30 years ago. Big barns have always had the upper hand. And when you run a big barn, no matter it be race horses or show horses, you generally have to streamline your horse care practices for practicality purposes. *shrugs*

MightyBobbyMagee
Feb. 19, 2011, 07:35 AM
Check out Matz barn for example. Every horse is done up in fours with Green Cool...everyday.


And? It's basically a fancy version of rubbing alcohol which serves to cool and brace the leg. I see nothing wrong with that. I worked for a huge trainer as well, and the only time we strayed from our Green Jelly was to poultice after a breeze. I just don't see the problem there.

sjdressage
Feb. 19, 2011, 08:23 AM
I guess it depends on how the management is set up. Good managers/CEO's in the business world know everything. They hire the right people to be an extension of them and communicate well.

What I mean by a factory barn is when the barn is run on paper with no thought for the individual. Horses are kept together like the guy in a Weekend at Bernies and used up. They'll claim off their next door neighbor with no heads up and off the family who bred and raised their one horse.

Xctrygirl
Feb. 19, 2011, 10:26 AM
Did I say ALL trainers, or did I say "certain" trainers? Check out Matz barn for example. Every horse is done up in fours with Green Cool...everyday.

And I disagree. Simple isnt best for the horse. Correctly, is best.

Not when I was there....

All horses got 4 wraps.... but that's b/c they very much believe in protecting the key elements needed for success, the legs. Some were sweated, some poulticed, very few in green cool. It was alcohol then.

(This was only 5 years ago)

And for Michael's grooms, I'd say there was an amazing system of senior grooms who knew that the one little spot of warmth on a suspensory was a problem. All the less experienced grooms knew to ask an elder if there was a question. And I saw a whole bunch of tiny things stay tiny because of quick responses.

~Emily

Acertainsmile
Feb. 19, 2011, 10:02 PM
I recall working for trainers with a barnfull that rarely checked legs 30 yrs ago, and trainers with a barnfull not that long ago that checked legs everday faithfully. I dont think things have changed that much, there are those that do, and those that dont.

As far as claiming horses, I agree it was always an unwritten "rule", however, sometimes it happened. Basically everyone got their feelings hurt, but put on their big boy pants and got over it. There is also the rule that goes like this, "Dont want your horse claimed? Dont run him for a tag, take him home and make him a pet".

sjdressage
Feb. 20, 2011, 08:09 AM
I recall working for trainers with a barnfull that rarely checked legs 30 yrs ago, and trainers with a barnfull not that long ago that checked legs everday faithfully. I dont think things have changed that much, there are those that do, and those that dont.

As far as claiming horses, I agree it was always an unwritten "rule", however, sometimes it happened. Basically everyone got their feelings hurt, but put on their big boy pants and got over it. There is also the rule that goes like this, "Dont want your horse claimed? Dont run him for a tag, take him home and make him a pet".

True-I still like the idea of a new term I just heard "waiver claiming" where if your horse is coming off a layoff he is ineligible to be claimed. We need more owners that give a @#$% about their horses in this sport and maybe we should cater to that.

Florida Fan
Feb. 20, 2011, 08:39 AM
True-I still like the idea of a new term I just heard "waiver claiming" where if your horse is coming off a layoff he is ineligible to be claimed. We need more owners that give a @#$% about their horses in this sport and maybe we should cater to that.

Oh wouldn't that be lovely!! I could run an allowance horse for 10k claimers after a layup, cash a sure bet, plus be elgible for 10k starters!! What a perfect world that would be!
Gotta agree with Acertainsmile-----put on your big boy pants if you want to be in this game. You can still be a trainer who is observant and practical when it comes to running a horse that needs time off.

sjdressage
Feb. 20, 2011, 09:18 AM
Oh wouldn't that be lovely!! I could run an allowance horse for 10k claimers after a layup, cash a sure bet, plus be elgible for 10k starters!! What a perfect world that would be!
Gotta agree with Acertainsmile-----put on your big boy pants if you want to be in this game. You can still be a trainer who is observant and practical when it comes to running a horse that needs time off.

Maybe before you open your sarcastic mouth you should read what it is: http://thoroughbredink.com/ArticleWaiverClaiming.html

You couldn't run an allowance horse for 10k.

And if "putting on my big boy pants" means I have to become an insensitive jack@!%, no thanks. I am in this sport out of respect for the horse. Yes, it would be easier if I didn't care and I would look cooler like a "big boy" but it's not me.

So, if I'm an owner, in your world, I should skip doing the surgery or laying up the horse because it doesn't make sense if someone is going to claim him if I put him where he belongs first time back. If you do the right thing for the horse, you are wasting your money.

Florida Fan
Feb. 20, 2011, 09:44 AM
Sorry that I came across so "sarcastic" as you say,but I sort of got tired ofdealing with owners who wanted "the perfect world" for their situation. As you don't know me, I will tell you that I had runners at the racetrack from Arizona to S.Florida, for 25 years, having 20 to 25 head at Finger Lakes, and 10 - 15 at Calder, Gulfstream. And, anyone that knew me would tell you that I never hesitated to lay a horse up. And, for usually longer than he needed, as I felt if an owner didn't want to give some time off---he could move the horses. I owned horses myself as well, but mostly a public stable. AND--I have layed them off and had a few claimed first out even though I ran them for a bit more than they were worth in a lot of cases.
I did plenty of surgery---although the horses in my care for any length of time were stopped before they needed surgery. Everyone has their opinions on racing--but I think it takes being in it at least a decade to really decipher what is good for the general industry.

sjdressage
Feb. 20, 2011, 09:53 AM
Sucked didn't it. Probably cost you money too.

It is very sad when some people in the industry try to make others look stupid (put on your big boy pants) for caring about the horses. You may have chosen to become hardened from dealing with it for years but the day I don't care is the day I quit!

Florida Fan
Feb. 20, 2011, 09:57 AM
Interesting article though--sort of like an "optional claim"---and actually does not change much...

Florida Fan
Feb. 20, 2011, 10:13 AM
I never hesitated to do what was best for the horse. Claiming is part of the game---I certainly claimed my share too! So--it is the overall income of the operation that makes/loses money....not the loss/gain of one horse.

7cents
Mar. 5, 2011, 11:50 PM
Maybe it is just different out west here ( I am a midwest transplant), but what happened to you don't walk into someone else's shedrow? I have seen my shedrow look like a city sidewalk some days, by people I have never seen, and it appears to be the norm out here :confused: In the midwest it is a major no-no. If I stop by a friend's shedrow, even now out here, I will stand at the edge of the aisle and holler to them, not just saunter down their stalls.