So tired of being made to feel like the poorest person in the barn!

[milquetoast]

Warning: rant.

Okay, here's the story. I ride with a pretty large A show barn with lots of nice horses. I am horse shopping right now and every time I sit down with my trainer, he looks at me like I am crazy to think I can find a horse on my budget. And I feel like he treats me a little differently than all the snooty kids in the barn because of it.

Let me give you a few facts, and please tell me if you think he is being ridiculous. I am looking for a nice horse (doesn't have to be beautiful, and doesn't have to win the hack) to eventually do the amateurs on, and I can spend just under 6 figures. I don't think that is an unreasonably low amount, but maybe I am crazy.

Also, I am in my twenties. I am pretty pleased with myself that, at this age, I am even able to afford this sport, much less a quality horse.

Is it fair for my trainer to act like I am too "poor" to compete? Do you think he is just trying to get me to spend more money, or do you really think I am being unreasonable to expect to find a quality horse for this amount? Am I the only one who rides with a BNT and is on some sort of a budget? If he is being unreasonable, how should I respond to him?

[milquetoast]

Warning: rant.

Okay, here's the story. I ride with a pretty large A show barn with lots of nice horses. I am horse shopping right now and every time I sit down with my trainer, he looks at me like I am crazy to think I can find a horse on my budget. And I feel like he treats me a little differently than all the snooty kids in the barn because of it.

Let me give you a few facts, and please tell me if you think he is being ridiculous. I am looking for a nice horse (doesn't have to be beautiful, and doesn't have to win the hack) to eventually do the amateurs on, and I can spend just under 6 figures. I don't think that is an unreasonably low amount, but maybe I am crazy.

Also, I am in my twenties. I am pretty pleased with myself that, at this age, I am even able to afford this sport, much less a quality horse.

Is it fair for my trainer to act like I am too "poor" to compete? Do you think he is just trying to get me to spend more money, or do you really think I am being unreasonable to expect to find a quality horse for this amount? Am I the only one who rides with a BNT and is on some sort of a budget? If he is being unreasonable, how should I respond to him?

[*In Style*]

WOW! Just under 6 figures might buy you the nicest amateur hunter up in Canada for crying out loud!

Don't get discouraged, and always remember your trainer is employed by you. They provide YOU with a service, for which you pay for, and they should be willing to work at accomplishing your goals within your personal budget, etc.

I would make a note at being very clear your limits on purchasing a horse, sometimes they like to see how far they can push that cheque and you just need to stick to your guns and be confident. And shed no worry, you will find that perfect horse- it is meant to be for all of us we just have to be in the right place at the right time.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Bumpkin]

6 Figures, and you are being treated that way?
Yipes, that is rude in my personal opinion.
Perhaps you should jokingly tell him how you see it, and see what kind of response you get.

I remember the response I got from one of my trainers when he seemed to be down on my horse, I did not know how to approach him about what I was feeling so I finally just flat out asked if he was going to send my horse "To The Cornfield", ala Twilight Zone.
I got a look of surprise and then an honest answer, that I really appreciated.

[imapepper]

I don't know where you are...but just under 6 figures should get you a pretty darn nice horse. Especially if you are willing to get something not quite made (but for that it should be pretty darn spectacular http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ). Are you maybe being oversensitive to your trainer's comments/tone? It might not be meant like that at all http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Good luck with your shopping.

[Bumpkin]

Alter...look at my signature line, every single day I remind myself how true it is.
It sounds like you need to also.
JMHO of course.

[Bumpkin]

Come West, you will find something for 5 figures dear.
I am open for Horse Hunting anytime.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Show Hunter]

Just under 6 figures is plenty of money to spend on an A/O horse. Granted, if you want something that is currently doing the 3'6", you aren't going to find the winner (or maybe even a ribbon winner) at Indoors for that price, but you can find a very, very nice Pre-Green horse that will be ready to move up soon (Dec, springtime, etc).

I happen to know that this is true, because I imported a 6 year-old in July that will move up to the 1st Years and A/Os in December. I got him for definitely less than 6 figures. This is a horse that we think will be able to be at least in the ribbons at Indoors, Devon.

I would advise you to call around and gather ideas of prices. I called about horses that I saw on websites, in the Chronicle, and my trainers talked to many other trainers regarding their sale horses. That way, you can get an idea of current prices, and how far your dollar will go.

In any case, don't be bullied by your trainer - you have it right. You'll be able to find a wonderful horse with what you have to spend - even less if you look a bit!

[Posting Trot]

Your trainer is treating you like a poor relation because you can *only* spend about $90,000 on a horse???!!!

I wish I were that poor.

[JUSTTHEMOM]

Smile and nod. Then, when you find said horse and whip the behind of everyone else in trainer's barn. Smile and nod...money and ribbon in hand.

[Dooner]

5 Minutes on the web:

http://agdirect.com/scripts/hrsdetl.exe?1091490447&0

http://agdirect.com/scripts/hrsdetl.exe?1085006112&0

http://agdirect.com/scripts/hrsdetl.exe?1083683727&0

http://agdirect.com/scripts/hrsdetl.exe?1091490447&0

Maybe these horses are lame, or insane, and I’m just too naive to tell. Maybe their asking price doesn’t allow room for 30% commission.

I've seen at least 5 horses come and go from my relatively modest barn, that fit what you are asking for, for mid to high 5 figures--and thats just in the last 6 months.

[zedcadjna]

You can most def find a horse under 6 figures that can do the rateds just fine.. I think you trainer may be looking at what he may lose if you dont spend a higher amount.. The more you spend the bigger commission he gets..

I had a student in fla who told me she had $25,000 to spend on a horse and she could not go higher..I found her 2 horses and one green one made, she did the adults on the made and won.. She spent $20,000 on him and $4,000 on the greenie.. Well she sold the greenie a yr later to a friend of mine for $30,000 cause he swept up the pre-greens on the fla circuit..

My point is if you look around and try out horses it may take while but you will find a great horse in your budget...I would just tell your trainer this is what I have and thats that..

[LH]

This situation is really ridiculous. My trainer routinely finds 6 figure horses for some customers, but has a good enough eye to find me a very green 4yo for less than $20, who was very competitive in the middle adults all summer, champion a couple of times, won the a/a championship for the local winter series, qualified for all fall indoor 3' adult classics, is pretty, etc. He won't win the hack, but might get a ribbon, is brave, big, with a big step. My trainer knew I'd be patient and put in the time on a greenie, but this horse should step up to the 3'6" in 2005.

The truly talented trainer should be able to find horses in all budget ranges. If your trainer gives you any attitude about that, I think you need a new trainer.

[horsepop]

I would strongly suggest you be very direct with your trainer and explain what you want and how much is the max you will pay including the commission. Then you need to ask if he can find a horse that meets your needs with these limits or should you just give up looking for horses with him.
Believe me, this is a market that allows for alot of room to negotiate, perhaps your trainer doesn't like to do that. If he doesn't, then he doesn't have your best interest at the forefront. Remember some trainers like to buy known horses that have large sales prices because they feel they look better than the next trainer who is out there looking for the best deal they can get for the client.
Most important thing to do is first talk with your trainer and be very frank about your expectations and find out whether he is eager to meet them or not. If not then you know where you stand.

[Cashew4ever]

That is the most rediculous (sp?) thing I have ever heard!!! If your trainer honestly believes that there exists no nice horses under $100000 then there is something really wrong with his head! I know many people with horses that can compete in the Amateurs and they only spent in the 4 digits. You go and show your tainer that you can find the horse on your budget and never mind his stupid remarks. I really hate how this industry is becoming more about money than the actual love of the sport! (Sorry for the little rant.)
Anyway, I don't know where you are located, but here are some examples of nice horses in your price range:
Don Prima (http://horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/715314.html)
Habanero (http://horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/685129.html)
Morse Code (http://horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/724610.html)
Sterling (http://horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/692345.html)
Red Tag (http://horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/734284.html)
Karla (http://horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/694089.html)
The Merlyn (http://horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/741006.html)
High Flight (http://horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/734528.html)
Dream On (http://horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/723882.html)

[Lost In Space]

I think the way trainer's treat some of their customer's is crazy! We bought a horse out of Europe last year and didn't pay over $30,000. Our trainer told me that they doubted they would be able to find anything in our price range! We did though! He got ribbons at WEF in the pre greens and children's. He was 2nd once behind a $500,000 horse! I think the prices have gone through the roof. But because of the need to win people will pay anything for that BLUE RIBBON!. I think the kids today, mine included, think that $50,000 for a horse seems just fine. This world is so screwed up with what we have to pay. Someone once told me, "Every horse is only worth $1,500.00, anything you get beyond that is all salesmanship."

[Jodes, Aefvue Farms Bartender]

I have to say, this is very discouraging. I cannot believe a professional would not jump at the chance to find a 90k horse for a customer..not everyone has a million dollars to spend on a horse!!! I know some very nice, competative horses in the 30-50k range...it's a VERY select few that can spend over a 100k on a horse..and even then I wonder if it's worth it..I much prefer the 15-20k horses that you bring along, and do well, as apposed to something that you pay top dollar for and don't win...which happens http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Bumpkin]

This thread is getting a lot of good advise.
Good thread Alter.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[wendy]

six figures and you feel poor????

Go get a nice OTTB from a rescue and spend a few years training him up, then go laugh in your trainer's face.

[Silk]

My trainer has clients that have 6 figure horses in his barn that regularly rbbon in Fl. He treated my 4,000 off track TB and me as well as any other in the barn. He worked as hard with us (if not harder becauuse together, me and that horse were a slow study) as with anyone else.

The hirse was an awsome mover with tons of step, but still..not an A/O winner at indoors!

(edited to say "mover" instead of "miver"

[Duffy]

Boy, would my trainers be thrilled if my budget was close to 6 figures! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

alterschmalter - My advice is to do a LOT of legwork yourself. You'll find some great prospects. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[PiedPiper]

I have a solution:

You give me your 90K, I find you a horse that is everything you want but I get to keep the rest! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif How about it? You game?

Really that is quite ridiculous and as much as I hate making this suggestion there are plenty of eventers that are not even half that price that can be everything you are looking for. Look at the imfamous Lion King now. He made the switch without missing a stride.

[Bumpkin]

The Grey horse on this website can jump the moon.
I don't own him or have any financial connectionto him, but he is in the stall across from Elliot.

http://www.northwestdressage.com/horses.shtml

[Saddith]

I know for a fact that you will find exactly what you are loooking for lower than what you want to spend. It is a buyer's market out there right now, it just takes leg work - and maybe that is not something your trainer wants to do right now.

I would say go on your own, start shopping, and when you find a prospect have him evaluate it.

There are plenty of great horses in your price range - what area are you located in?

[wanderlust]

I agree with Saddith, alter. Go out and do some legwork yourself if you haven't, it is most certainly a buyers market.

While you are at it, check out Pheasant Grove (http://www.pheasantgrove.com). The owner has some lovely, lovely horses for sale, and contacts with most of the BNTs in CA if she doesn't presently have what you are looking for.

[Duffy]

Yup, alterschmalter. I just drool at the shows, knowing I can't afford anything I'd want there. Then, I go home and hit the internet. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'm in the Southeast as well and am looking for a horse for me and a large pony for my daughter. I know my budgets are very conservative to some, but I just try to be patient.

[QueenMother]

Maybe the trainer thought the figures included cents -- $999.99!

Maybe you're being overly defenseive -- you didn't say he told you you couldn't get a horse for $90,000 (just under six figures). I think you said you "felt" like he thought you were unrealistic.

[silver]

If your trianer can't find you a competitive A/O prospect for $90,000 he doesn't have very good contacts in the industry, that's all I'm saying.

There are TONS of trainers and agents out there who would be thrilled to help you. Call them.

[Dooner]

I’m going to get flamed for this…

Of the horses I mentioned above all but one were found in the states, but none in our region. One woman was frustrated because after looking for a year she had not found anything appropriate at the larger zone 8 shows. Her budget was generous but did not permit her to go jetting around the country to look at one horse here and one horse there. So … she took a 4 day whirlwind trip to Europe with our trainer. She looked at almost 100 horses in Holland and Germany, and imported an awesome one within the month—spending a lot less than you have. Prices may be inflated for Americans, and “buying American” is a good thing when possible, but for those of us who don’t live in the major horse areas it can be expensive to pay for ourselves and trainers to make multiple trips around the country.

Now if your trainer is too busy and successful to make 8/12/16k in commissions on an all expense paid 4 day trip to Europe, more power to him.

[ponygirl]

I know quite a few breeders and farms in the Southeast with high quality young stock for sale. Here's a link to a farm that consistently has hunters and jumpers doing extremely well at the big shows.

http://www.seabreezefarminc.com/

[wanderlust]

alter, it may behoove you to spend a little bit of your budget going to other geographic locations to look for horses. Things are certainly cheaper in the middle states, Canada, and, somewhat surprisingly, even northern California (thanks to the dot-com bust).

Good luck! And no shopping places like WEF! Just as an aside- a former client of my former trainer bought an extremely overpriced youngster at WEF doing the first-years, and ended up having to take a big hit when it turned out he was unsuitable for anything but a perfect pro ride.

[Jodes, Aefvue Farms Bartender]

I believe I read you were at a barn in the southeast..wouldn't be South Carolina, would it?

[JUSTTHEMOM]

Consider too that there will always be someone both richer and poorer than you are, in every facet of life. Every barn, every store, every workplace. It's all in the decimal point, all in what you're used to.

Some might think, gee, I can't afford this $800 CANTER horse, but...if it's FREE, then I'll get it.

So, if the snobbish treatment bothers you (and of course it would bother most people who don't participate in it!)...why not change to a barn where you're a "big fish in a little pond" if that makes you feel better about your achievements. You SHOULD feel VERY proud.

I just last night told the barn manager (finally!) that I didn't think his insults should be included with my board...I'd pay extra if I wanted any more.

If you're just "sensing" this...is there any way you might feel just a little jealous that you can't afford the higher priced horses? I know I guess I feel a little jealous that you can afford a horse priced that high. I'd love to have that horse. Different market, different income bracket, different mind set. Heck, there are PLENTY of my daughter's friends who can't afford lessons!

I was in Grand Cayman once, taking a tour. Our tour guide said "Oh, now THAT hotel over there is VERY expensive, you wouldn't want to stay there" to our group. I was so offended. Later, I realized it was probably almost a dare. They WANTED us to check out the nice hotel and come back and go hrmph!...well I can certainly afford that, what a rude young man. They got their tourism dollars bumped up that way. I don't like to play those games.

I hope we all take a moment to appreciate all the good things that we DO have in our lives.

[winter]

Wow, these threads sure make me realise how glad I am that I've always done my own horse shopping. I've never paid a commision and never paid 5 figures for a horse. That being said though, I also don't show A circuit so my needs are very diferent.
I have talked to so many A circuit riders who have been taken to the cleaners by their trainer just on the search for a horse. A agree with all the advice here: he works for you!!
You should hop on a plane to Canada and buy a horse this weekend at the warmblood sale. There are some very nice ones on offer!
alberta sale (http://www.canadianwarmbloods.com/ab/2004sale/index.html)

[Sandy M]

Just under six figures?!?!? Give me a break! I thought this was going to be some sad thread about not being able to spend more than 10K-15K at a big "A" barn. ROFLOL I've competed successfully to a national championship level on a horse that cost under 5K, and I'm strictly an amateur who at the time, only took weekly lessons, i.e., the trainer never even got on the horse.

When I evented, my very best eventer, quite capable of advanced (though I only took him to intermediate) cost me all of $3,500.

ONLY JUST UNDER SIX FIGURES!! And here I am wondering where my next horse is going to come from when my guy retires and 10K would be my MAX budget - or maybe 15K if the seller would finance. ROFLMAO

[Kim]

Excellent post, justthemom.

Maybe I've been out of the "A" hunter scene for too long, but why does everyone need a horse that costs megabucks? There are many OTTBs and others out there that have just as much talent and can win in good company. Look at Oklahoma Land Rush from a few years ago, for example (not sure if he is still showing) -- he was Horse of the Year for Small Jr. Hunters (I believe more than once), won everywhere, even won the hack at Lake Placid, and he was bought as a rescue off a dealer's truck...

I know of so many successful "A" show horses who are OTTBs...I guess I just don't understand why people need to spend millions. I don't mean to offend anyone - it just confuses me.

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

Some of the horses folks have posted as examples are very nice. You could buy three of them! Jeez, what is happening here? Your trainer would scoff at me. I don't do the hunters, I do dressage. I could not afford to buy a 2 or 3 year old prospect in my price range, with my expectations. I bred my own prospect, and granted, instead of paying $15,000++ for a two or three year old prospect, (no training), I am paying in TIME. I an aching to go to the shows, and I have 2 horses that can't be ridden (one is retired and the other is 18 months), but it is worth it for me. Now, if I had "just under 6 figures" to spend on a horse and asked my trainer to help me find something in my price range, with my expectations, I'd probably own 4 horses right now, 2 at the very least. Try doing some of the leg work yourself, as others have suggested. I live in Maryland, and you said you live in the southeast. I know for a fact that Va has some VERY nice hunter barns and some VERY nice horses. That area might be a good place to look. You can take a long weekend and go look at a group of horses in the Warrenton, Culpepper and surrounding areas. there HAS to be something out there. Good luck!

[JUSTTHEMOM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alterschmalter:
He's not being mean or disdainful; it's just that we haven't had much luck in our horse search and I think he feels badly about that and is trying to blame it on something other than himself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ahhh, there ya go. Pride is a powerful thing. I understand you want to get along with and please your trainer. But I keep seeing our trainer's jaw drop when she finds the "deals" I'm getting things for (not a horse, just tack, etc.). They WANT to be all-knowing, but they are uncomfortable that they're not. Look outside of your area, and maybe present him/her with some options that you've found. For that price...you can get a MUCH lower priced horse, and afford a trip to see him, another trip with trainer, and hauling...and still save a ton.

[daytimedrama]

I am at a big A show barn, granted I don't show as much as the people who go ot 25 shows a year and my horse sure didn't cost 6 figures. My trainer was skeptical too when I told her my bidget, she was realistic, in California I would probably have to find something older with soundness issues or something younger and green. So I looked out of the area, I found my wonderful horse online saw a video and we all flew out to NY to try him. He was definately the best horse my money would buy. He had done the 3'6" hunters and medals and was honeszt and sound. Luckily for me he also jumps great! When I htink about how my horse is probably the cheapest horse in the barn it makes me a little proud that he can still pin at Menlo and win at the big shows, would prbably do better if I wasn't so spazzy. If just under 6 figures is all you have to spend don't get disheartened or feel ashamed I'm sure you worked hard for you riding skills and the money to pay for you new horse. Good Luck! and your horse is out there!

[Windsor]

As someone who's been known to have trouble scraping up the rent some months, this thread is highly amusing to me. ONLY "just under" six effing figures to spend on one's hobby? I'm with the one who said she wishes she were that poor.
Perspective is an interesting thing.

[imapepper]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Windsor:
As someone who's been known to have trouble scraping up the rent some months, this thread is highly amusing to me. ONLY "just under" six effing figures to spend on one's hobby? I'm with the one who said she wishes she were that poor.
Perspective is an interesting thing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep me too http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I'm one of those people who are trying to figure out my budget for a second horse....for me it's not the purchase price (because I have a thing for bargains and retreads http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) it's the upkeep http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I don't even look at anything over 5K http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

edited to add: You should be extremely proud of your accomplishments at your age. I would never be able to afford such a horse without hitting the lottery http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Do NOT let your trainer make you feel like you are less than other customers http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I have some friends who have been in similar positions and have went out and found their own horses for far less than their trainer was wanting them to spend and they did just fine http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Snowbird]

This goes as well to my post on the pony finals thread. In a proper world as the one where I was trained no trainer worth his salt would ever admit he spent more than $5,000 on a horse. If he had to it was because he wasn't a very good trainer.

We used to brag about how little and not how much we spent for a horse or pony. But, then too this was a performance sport and "pretty was as pretty did".

When a sports activity becomes nothing more than a vanity parade perhaps we need shows like the Westminster dog show instead of hunters and jumpers. There you can be judged on beauty and have no concerns about performance.

I feel so sorry for all of you young people who have been indoctrinated into a world of vanity, false pride and bragging rights. Winning is not what we should be about, losing is really what we taught with this sport.

You went into maiden classes and lost until you finally won the one blue ribbon, and then you movrd up so that you could lose again until you won three blue ribbons and so on through Limit and intermediate to open. Whenever you won you took the next challenge and then accepted gradual improvement and personal best until you mastered the level of skill.

The result was that young people learned about politics, nepotism, rich and poor and faced a real world. There is no guarantee that because you are the best you will get the promotion to which you are entitled in your job. So by being rejected by judges when you know the limitations of your horse you were prepared for rejection in the real world. You make value judgments for your life.

When you buy a horse for a million dollars then he had better be able to balance you on his back, read the course and smile at the judge so the judge knows he's the most expensive horse out there and then the judge will forgive the bad spots at the fences and being pretty will be what counts as being the better horse.

Or maybe we could save a lot of time and effort if we skipped the fences altogether and we just stood them on the line and have the judge pick who is the prettiest in rank. Maybe the horse should be able to take a bow and say thank you for the blue ribbon to the judge. That would certainly be appropriate in this world of vanities.

There are Breed Classes and Divisions for being pretty, hunter is a working class.

[RumoursFollow]

If you look, you will find.

I paid not anywhere close to 6 figures a few months ago for a made horse that did well in the first years and was competing in the adults when I bought him. He jumps the everloving best, and he won the hack at the Maclay Regionals A show in the Older Childrens Hunters with my trainers daughter (who also rode him to 3rd in the SC Medal Finals).

Because I cant pay the big price, I deal with some of his issues. None of them worry me at all though. First of all, he had a bit of a funny ankle on the xray. While it wasnt the best thing to hear, it was understandable with issue #2, which is that he's older... ten. I havent had a problem with him at all. Thirdly, he can be a little hot if he doesnt get ridden the right amount which makes his 87ft stride a little hard to adjust in a line. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But he is a LOVELY horse and people are lining up at the ring to fawn over him because he is just getting better and better at every show.

My trainer could not find me a horse. We looked for 6 months, and finally I took it upon myself to look on my own. I found him far away (he was in PA, my trainer is in SC) but I went and tried him alone (I was living in Washington DC at the time anyway so it wasnt a stretch) and vetted him and bought him and the most my trainer saw before I wrote the check was a video.. and he wasnt even sure that he liked him! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

It IS possible, believe me. If I can do it, anyone can!

[Feenikks]

A quick word from Feenikks here -

1) I am SO GLAD that I am not looking for a horse at this time, prices are skyrocketing ..

2) Alter: Go out and find yourself a nice horse for 50K MORE or LESS if you want, and make it into what you want, show your trainer and barn folks what you can do with a horse that is not 200K

[Raspberry]

I don't think the OP was asking to be told how lucky she was to be able to afford to spend 90k on a horse, or to be told about the 5K suprise successes. I don't think she should feel bad for having a fair chunk of change to spend on a nice horse, so stay on topic.

As for the question at hand, I know what poor communications can do to trainer-rider relationships. It can be brutal. You can second guess what a comment really meant, or even the lack of a comment. So, its time to sit down with the trainer and explain how you are feeling. If he is aware of your budget restrictions, perhaps simply laying out some alternative (Europe, Canada, our of area) and explaining your current thought process will open the lines of communication. You have a good amount of money, that should net you the type of horse you want, even if you have to accept a few minor things.

Good Luck.

And posters, lay off, we all have financial concerns, there are just different brackets. I think you could place this same issue in a local barn and say that person A had 5k instead of 15K to spend, its not about the actual dollar figure, imo.

[xegeba]

Alter, have you ever stopped to consider what the ramifications would be to trainer, if he found you a lovely horse for under 100,000.00 and the rest of his clientele paid well over that sum? Your 5 figure horse would create a giant glitch in the lucrative system this trainer has set up. There could also be several other motivations ...1) if you only want to spend 90,000.00 this means he has to find you a horse that really costs 45,000.00 whereas if you would spend 125,000.00 well, then he could find you a horse that cost 80,000.00 to 90,000.00... exactly what you should be paying! 2) if he finds you a beauty for 125,000.00 then SOMEONE in the barn is going to be jealous and go out and spend 175,000.00 to one up you. Am I being too cynical? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[milquetoast]

Raspberry, thanks for your excellent post.

Xegeba, yes, you are being too cynical. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif But it's certainly understandable in this business. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Snowbird]

I appologize for sounding cranky, generally the fact is that the differences in price beyond talent of the horse are based on pretty.

I happen to have a pet peave because we are a performance division and it shouldn't be the factor that makes a difference. The $5,000 figure was an abstraction and not intended to be a serious factor. Given the differences in costs it would probably in this day and age be equal to $50K and being extermely aged and already coming into the venerable stage I remember back to when an ice cream cone, double dip with topping on a sugar cone was .05 cents. Imagine a time when you could buy something that good for a nickel.

[Calvaro V]

I posted a similar thread a while back about not being able to find a nice Jumper for the mid 5 figure range. I was also getting v fraustrated and looking at lots of stuff online, calling people, etc. The problem is, as somebody correctly said, you will end up spending 10k on jetting around the country looking at lots of different horses, many of which you won't like.

The key is to get your trainer to use his contacts and find you the right horse for your budget. If that doesn't work, go to a reputable dealer (talk to friends) who will have many contacts and know who to buy from and who not to buy from. Yes you will pay a little more, but you will be able to go to one place and look at a bunch of different horses. It will only be one trip and not multiple trips. If your trainer doesn't like it, move. There are plenty of people who would love to have somebody with your income level in their barn.

Only take the Europe route if you have a trustworthy person there. Otherwise you may get fleeced.

Good luck.

[gotta ride]

This is crazy! My horse was 4 figures, and as of now, he's second in the quite competitive 2'6" division we ride in.

[scotchie]

ALter-Here's a little side story-I bought a cheap OTTB and had her at a barn where there are some very nice horses. SHe came in off the track with soundness issues (sore, etc) and my trainer dropped the price to make her an even CHEAPER horse (very low 4 figures). I poundered whether I should take the leap. I asked the advise of someone in the barn who is at the other end of the financial spectrum than me if she thought the horse would continue to have issues and be a poor risk. Her response was meant in kindness but was still a little cold. She said "What do expect from a cheap horse". I was hurt at first but later it proved a neat thing. If the horse didn't do well I could sadly shake my head and say, "well, what do you expect from a cheap horse?" WHen she did well (which she did-turned into a gorgeous AA hunter-perfect) I had the revenge of saying, "Not bad for a cheap horse!"

I guess the lesson here is spend what you feel comfortable doing-do not be pressured that you need to start off with the best-start off with what you feel comfortable with emotionally AND financially because you will always have the nagging feeling that "your" horse is still out there. IF you are able to do the A/o's then you are an accomplished rider-you can find something almost made that you AND your trainer can tune up to make it worth even more!!! Best of luck in your hunt! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[nycjumper]

I think there's quite a bit to be found in your price range. Perhaps your trainer just doesn't have contacts at the "below 6 figure" range. Do some homework on the net, look around, talk to people.

Sadly, in a big A barn, your price range might not be sufficient for trainer to spend a lot of time on b/c he won't get the commission dollars that he would on a 6-figure horse. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

But if you're proactive, I'd be willing to bet you could find quite a few. And if you're willing to take a greener horse or one with some quirks, I can't imagine you couldn't find one & have a good chunk of change left over. Most sellers I know are having a tough time right now - its a buyers market!

[Sing Mia Song]

I just sold a to-die-for mare who moved like Strapless for $3000. I would certainly liked to have goten more for her, but she was the fourth horse, I keep them all at home and have a full time job, and I just don't have the time. We also bought her to sell, winter's coming up, and I didn't feel like feeding another horse.

Yes, she's green, yes, she's a mare, and yes, she's 15.2. But the girl who got her got a bargain and she knew it. And I still made money on the horse.

[Ketch]

Uh, Strapless isn't that great of a mover. Are you thinking of Priceless? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[JUSTTHEMOM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nycjumper:Sadly, in a big A barn, your price range might not be sufficient for trainer to spend a lot of time on b/c he won't get the commission dollars that he would on a 6-figure horse. That's the way the cookie crumbles. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Now THAT is something I bet not many of us thought of! Good answer. May not be that they can't find one for that price, but that they can't really invest a lot of time looking for it.

I sell travel. YOu may think it's a lot of money to spend $2000 on a vacation (again, everything being relative to one's own personal finances). But you don't realize that I don't get that money. I MAY (or may not) get anything at all. Even if I do...it's not more than 10% (usually). And it costs us about 9% to operate. So...the more time I spend on you...the less I make. If I spend more than 2 hours on a $4000 trip(TOTAL working time, not just time with you in front of my desk)...I've barely broke even.

Smart thinking NYCJumper.

[Hopeful Hunter]

OK....price and ability/desire to pay are all VERY relative and personal, so I won't go there.

However...not receiving service regardless of price IS an issue. Let me see if I understand the situation:

OP has around $90k to spend on a horse.
OP's Trainer has been unable to find anything in that price range.
OP feels Trainer is starting to suggest it's not enough $.
OP likes Trainer regardless.

Welll.....it does seem that significantly less than your top figure CAN get you a nice horse that meets your needs. Whether or not it can get that horse close to home, in your perfect age, from someone your trainer knows, is another issue. Plus, as has been pointed out, you don't know how motivated your trainer is to find said horse...

I'd suggest it may be time for a frank talk with the trainer. State your frustrations and maybe review alternatives. What about:

* Working with an agent/rep in another geographic area, using a lower ceiling and some of the "extra" funds for evaluations and "post-purchase training fees/preview commission" for your trainer?

* Asking Trainer to refer you elsewhere, and asking UP FRONT about fees for effort to date, any expectations of commissions from the referral, etc.

* Just going out on your own, finding something for less, putting the remaining funds in the bank for any issues that come up and bringing the horse home?

It seems that the bottom line is the trainer is unable or unwilling to find what many people would agree is a very expensive mount. Fine. Then you need to look at alternatives. If those alternatives can free up some of your budget for other things, that might be good too.

And...you might want to take another look at your trainer and your relationship. YOU are employing the TRAINER; you are not being given a grand privilege by being "allowed" to spend a substantial amount of money. If you feel uncomfortable with the trainer or "like the poor relation" I wonder if this is really the best situation for you? You certainly don't deserve that, regardless of how much you can or will spend, imo. Good luck.

[How Bout No (Karrie)]

how much is "6 figures"??

[Windsor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Karrie:
how much is "6 figures"?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

$100,000

[How Bout No (Karrie)]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Windsor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Karrie:
how much is "6 figures"?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

$100,000 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WHAT!?!? I wouldnt mind having that in my 20's http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[Other]

Unfortunately, a lot of trainers are less than keen on having clients go out and find horses by themselves, try them without them being there, etc. At the barns I've ridden at, it simply isn't done-be it because of the commission issue, respect, what have you.

I know I probably wouldn't be allowed to bring in a horse my trainer didn't find. Perhaps poster is in similar situation?

[Windsor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Karrie:
WHAT!?!? I wouldnt mind having that in my 20's http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WHAT!?!? I wouldn't mind having that in my 60s! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Giddyup]

Well maybe from the trainer's point of view he figures by the time all of the commissions are put on top of the selling price you'll be only looking at $20,000 horses! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[2487lyf]

Nattie was under $20K (because he was just broke). He is a hack winner on the A circuit and I'm moving up to juniors next year. Don't let your trainer fool you... you have pleanty of money to find an amazing horse.

[Lilac]

alterschmalter, I'm curious. Has your trainer used either of these lines on you?
1) "It costs as much to board and train a cheaper horse than a pricier horse?"
2) "I like to see my clients spend enough to buy the horse of their dreams."

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Im with Hopeful Hunter....

And as for being willing to consider green horses and horses with maintenance issues...hello? For close to $100k? Please, surely you want perfection and total soundness for that!! Personally I'd want the horse to do the dishes and muck out his own box as well... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Oh and one more thing...can you please share your secrets on how you made your money so early in life http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Any tips greatly appreciated http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Lord Helpus]

I know where Alter is coming from. If you are in a barn with a SBNT (Super Big Name Trainer) you do not just go horse shopping on your own. It just isn't done.

All of you who are not used to the AA SBNT system can be, and I am sure are, aghast. But being aghast and appalled does not change the reality.

If you want to run with the big dogs, you play by their rules.
If you don't like their rules, then you don't have to ride on the AA circuit with a SBNT.

Alter can, on the QT, quietly put out feelers and ask for video tapes. Perhaps this thread has already started that process. But, she will probably only get one, or maybe two, chances to casually mention to SBNT that a video of a cute horse has dropped into her lap and would he be willing to look at it?

She is going to have to do a lot of surreptitious looking and weeding out and she is going to have to be prepared to let SBNT negotiate the price and push it up to her maximum, even though she knows that the original price was half that.

Its called "playing the game" and "keeping the peace".

But, if Alter wants to stay with her trainer AND find a really nice horse, its probably the best way she can go.

Good luck, Alter. I have played the game, and I don't enjoy it anymore, but I know how its played. And I do agree with the poster who said that SBNT would have trouble explaining to customer A that a horse of equal talent to hers (which cost $250k) can be found for $80k. BUT, if you find one off the beaten path and bring it to SBNT's attention, then he has an out -- you and he can both boast about your "find" that you discovered standing in a weed filled field in East Cupcake (even though it was immaculately presented to you at a gorgeous barn in Oregon or Washington or Colorado.)

Don't forget that wonderful horses such as:

Double Take (perennial Junior Hunter champion)
Bavaria ($1M working hunter)

came out of the Pacific Northwest for well under your budget.

The gray that Bumpkin mentioned might be another sleeper hiding up there waiting for a smart person to discover it. Just tell Mr. SBNT that the price is $82k not $22k...

[Coreene]

God, Bavaria was a nice horse.

[Juniorhuntergirlie]

wow and you feel like the poorest person in the barn... Well take a step out of your barn and you will find not all nice horses are in the six digit numbers. Even those horses who are can be beaten by a horse under what they were payed for. Money doesn't equal quality in this sport unfortunatley. I have seen many people spend serious money on horses that would be better off pulling a plow! Don't get me wrong yes some horses are worth big money... but come on not every nice horse costs serious money. I think maybe you should step away or not even step away from your trainer but maybe do a nice little search yourself for a horse that would suit you and your price range. Best of luck!

[Denzel]

JUST UNDER 6 FIGURES!!?!?!??!?!?!!?!? Are you crazy? That's an insanely large amount to spend on a horse...even for an A horse. I doubt that many people can afford horses over 6 figures. I think with that amount of money you should be able to find a very nice hunter.

[findeight]

OK, right off, I did not read all these posts.

I am a really MIDDLE class person in a high class BNT barn and all I have ever gotten from the trainer is her desire NOT to force anybody out.
Not to say it's a budget barn but for the price you hint at, she'll get you two good ones or three decent prospects and make you feel like you BELONG here.

Off hand if this "trainer" balks at a just under 100k price? He obviously has way too much talent in the barn to waste time with you.
I say, screw him, but, then again, who would want to???

Switch to a deserving trainer who will make your more then decent outlay work for you, not gain you membership in some kind of elitist club.

What a crock.

I just hate to hear this when I know that 50k will get you a dam nice horse in this market.

And, BTW, we can go buy our own. She may not love them but will work just as hard with them because she is all about our success.

Flip side is she has such a wonderful eye for matching horse and rider we want her expertise and consider it well worth the comission.

And, again, for 90k she can get you one world beater, two really good ones or three prospects.

And, alter, the only one that can make you feel poor is you...because you obviously have enough smarts to understand what is going on and think it stinks...and it does.
Bail to a real trainer who wants to help YOU, not line their pockets and stroke their ego with deeper pockets.

[Atypical]

90K huh.....must be nice. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I know prices have been going up as of late but my goodness. Hate to say it, but if your trainer can't find you a nice horse (heck more than a nice horse) for under 90k, he ain't worth his salt. You said it didn't even have to be a hack winner. Find someone willing and happy to work for you, bet you'd find a very nice horse for less.

[Juniorhuntergirlie]

"If you want to run with the big dogs, you play by their rules."

And the only reason why this is: BECAUSE PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT AND THEY DON'T HAVE THR COURAGE TO GO AGAINST WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO. The sport is only as ridiculous as you make it. It's really pathetic.

[RHdobes]

Wow.

Now, if you need to *ahem* impress the others at the barn, there is a nearly-off-the-track, 16.3, 4 year old, black Thoroughbred gelding here in Michigan for sale that sold as a YEARLING for $600,000.

You DON'T have to tell him that they'll sell him to you for $2,000.

Heeheehee. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[findeight]

Yeah, this OP's trainer seems to be a big dog...or think he is.

But you can sure as heck play in the same kennel under the same rules on the same class horse for about 100k. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I am not saying go buy one for 1k or so or adopt and spend 6 years making it. I am saying a huge number of the biggest names would welcome your trade at the price you name.
Go to them. They are out there and great people who will make you feel special-not like a welfare case waiting under the table for a scrap. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

[Boston Chicken]

findeight: without a doubt, one of the sharpest people on this BB. I appreciate your posts immensely. Very good responses to this sticky issue. I feel empowered just by reading this one! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[findeight]

Oh blush......

But for 30k you can get real talent both domestically or imported.

A real trainer would see, and salivate over, a possible 3 commissions for 100k. Or a real gold mine of a talent for that 100k.

I certainly would seek a trainer to work with me if I had that kind of money...not one to make me feel "poor".

Honestly folks, you think trainers pay that kind of money for prospects????????
You shouldn't either.

ON the other hand...
Not to be a wet blanket, but I did rescue one years back for 4500. A very fancy bred OTTB that went for a quarter million as a yearling-we are talking grade A winning Mr. Prospector son on top and a Spectacular Bid daughter for a mom. Fancy schmantzy in a copper chestnut package...what a A.O. he proved, and I do not mean Ammie Owner http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.
After 3 years of dicking around with physical problems (to the tune of a hundred plus a month in vet and 200 in fancy shoes), getting ditched every time I missed an oxer? I got smart and let him go in partial trade for my mare..who was originally priced at 35k but dropped 30% on a questionable vet. I was happy. That copper gelding got a home where they thought he was neat. I placed at huge AA rateds on the new mare...all thanks to my trainer recognizing I clicked with this horse before I did (and jacking the price way DOWN-even if it reduced her commision).

If you have it? Spend it for good horses and if you don't? Do NOT hate those that do...but even they sure as heck do NOT need to plan on more then 100k on a single horse even with the bonafide BNTs I know .

[xegeba]

Findeight? Could you clone your trainer and send her out here? Please? I'll pay your showing fees for life http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[findeight]

No...sorry...

But she is judging Showpark twice next year-and does not need to stay in a Holiday Inn Express to do so.

I know. I've been in horses since 1967 and finding a trainer is the absolute worst chore in creation.

I have been with mine since '95 but if you think we never had differences or a yelling fight or two? WRONG, actually got into it several times pretty good and may again but she holds nothing back and niether do I. Clears the air http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif We both know where we stand..which is as it should be in any BUSINESS relationship.

For that is what your relationship is with your trainer, BUSINESS.

Keep it that way for something you pay more for then a new car and spend more then the mortgage payment for every month to keep in a style you do NOT share with them.

Get a trainer to SUPPORT you. They are out there with wonderful and supporting barn environments.

Oh...sorry..kind of a pet peeve here.

[winkatbella]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lost In Space:
I think the way trainer's treat some of their customer's is crazy! We bought a horse out of Europe last year and didn't pay over $30,000. Our trainer told me that they doubted they would be able to find anything in our price range! We did though! He got ribbons at WEF in the pre greens and children's. He was 2nd once behind a $500,000 horse! I think the prices have gone through the roof. But because of the need to win people will pay anything for that BLUE RIBBON!. I think the kids today, mine included, think that $50,000 for a horse seems just fine. This world is so screwed up with what we have to pay. Someone once told me, "Every horse is only worth $1,500.00, anything you get beyond that is all salesmanship." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

was your horse in the older or younger childrens?

[Pandarus33]

Solution? Find another trainer who treats his clients with respect!

[findeight]

I heard that 1500 quote for a horse about 35 years ago and it certainly does not reflect what it costs per month these days, much less the cost of a nice horse. I doubt anybody is echoing it today...it was originally stated back in the 70's

Maybe you could substitute 15,000 in todays market but, again, that's a quote I heard in 1970 when you could get a nice one for $750.
Times change and prices do go up on EVERYTHING.

At the time of this original quote, you could get a Ford Mustang for 2500 and a mega fancy house for 50k. Most horses cost what the car did and a really fancy one would equal the house.

Horses still cost the same as cars, but that is about 19k to 40k and the really fancy ones cost what fancy houses do, half a million and up.

So what has changed in 40 years? Horses still cost the same as cars and fancy ones the same as houses. What's the difference?

That's just the way it is.

[Madame Butterfly]

I don't mind anymore. Because with my horse, I feel like the richest. He's my money....and someday I'm gonna take it to the bank.

[OLD A/O]

I again have to agree with what Lordhelpus has posted. One thing you have to remebemer it is a big game to some trainers and they love to use your money.

However, one thing the trainer forgets is that in order for you to pay the big bucks for the horse, the training and the showing. You are not a stupid person. In order for you to pay your bills from this person you must have some sort of brains. With these brains you can learn to train and show your horses on your own.

As a single Mom with three children we showed at least four horses and sometimes five or six. The trainer told me what horses to buy . Often these were ponies bought sight unseen for my kids. Just because a pony won the pony finals did not make a perfect match with the kids. Some of the matches worked out okay and some were horrible.

Money was tight for me and I was also insulted by what the trainer told me. I finally got smart and said I show any where from four to five horses, the kids take lessons, and we board during the winter months four to five horses. Yes, I could take away all the board. lessons, horse or pony purchases and buy one really fancy horse. Then you would not have the board on four horses, the show fees and etc.

They never complained again.

I eventually got the courage to buy my own stall drapes and step out on my own.

You are not talking about a cheap horse. If you are prepared to buy such a horse you must be a very good rider. You should not feel insulted. Perhaps it is time you step off and do it by yourself.

I wish you the best and hope you find a good horse!!!

[findeight]

Lotta trainers won't take you down that road.

Some "trainers" will.

Up to you to because YOU are the consumer and it is YOUR money and you are NOT too stupid to know what is going on with YOUR horse.

Insist on it as you would with any managed asset in business..because that trainer has a fiduciary responsibility and this IS BUSINESS.

Treat it that way

[fourmares]

The way the circuit runs from Feb - Nov. 'A' show trainers don't have time to deal with projects. Many of trhem don't want a green horse in the barn. Your trainer wants you to buy a horse that is ready to step into the ring and win... why? because it will make HIM look good. Which will bring more clients. Not to mention the dandy commission.

[Zoef]

The argument about paying board etc is all well and good but it ignores the realities of this business for SBNTs - namely that barns generally break even on board and make virtually all of their money on comissions. So most trainers would not care if you bought 1 horse for 100,000 or 3 for the same price and it is in fact probably better for them if you have fewer horses that cost more (less overhead to support you know). Plus you are right, SBNTs often do not have time for projects - they are often streched so thin that looking at it on a cost/benefit basis it is just not worth it (from their perspective) putting up with years of training for a greenie when spending more money could get you and them a made horse.

[Feenikks]

And the sad http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif part is with 100K - think about how many PMU foals could be saved, or those 6 horses in the field that are due to leave from the lot at next shipment if no one gives them a home.

And meanwhile 1 trainer is saying it is not enough for a horse http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Alter you really should do your own homework - horse shopping.
I have a question though - If I wanted to board at your barn, would I be discriminated from boarding there because my horse is less then 100K? Would the stalls already be occupied even though when I visited there were 3 empty? Or would BO/trainer say ok and then once I got there I would be told that my horse is a POS and time to sell him.

[Kim]

Just a suggestion, if you only ride twice a week or so, why not lease something really fancy? Is that an option?

Kim
*Proud owner of of a fancy "three-digit" OTTB*
:-D

[2Bays]

Is this thread for real, or is it simply meant to stir up emotions? Especially with that thread title! I sense troll.

Perhaps you should look over at some of the other boards, where people are struggling to afford colic surgery for a rescued horse, or simply one that they love...yet they are not posting that they "feel like the poorest person in the barn."

[MyGiantPony]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:

We used to brag about how little and not how much we spent for a horse or pony. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hee hee...I paid $1.00 for my horse. Sound, sane, great mind, 17.3 h 11 yr old Dutch warmblood that's everything I want and need.

Them's my brags....

[Show Hunter]

Alter,
There are horses out there that will fit into your budget. However, after hearing more of your "must-haves", I do agree with your trainer that it might be more difficult to find a horse that can immediately step into the A/O ring and win on your budget. That is NOT to say that your budget is paltry, only that horses at these levels are insanely expensive!! Of course, this partially depends on where you will be showing, but if you are talking doing the winter FL or CA circuits, almost all of the 3'6" winners at those shows cost a heck of a lot more than $90K.

You'll have to compromise on something, and you might have to search a bit more. Smaller horses cost less, horses that are only "average" movers are less, pre-greens that will do 3'6" in Dec are less, or maybe something that was very recenly imported and hasn't done many shows in the US yet. Bottom line though, if you need a horse that has done 3'6", can walk into the A/O ring immediately, is of the quality to win at big shows, and is young (enough to still be saleable in a few years), you are going to find that many horses may be out of your price range. You'll have to compromise somewhere, or may spend a while looking for such a horse.

[Kim]

Alter, no offense intended with the "lease" comment. I was just thinking that perhaps you could lease something that may be above your price range so you could show while you look for your horse.

Good luck in whatever you decide. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[BarbB]

For someone concerned that a 90k horse would not be up to snuff in their barn....I thought leasing a more expensive horse sounded like a good option.

Am I just paranoid.....is there an air of unreality to this thread?
I know what fancy hunters sell for, I also know that most trainers of any caliber can find something that they will take out in public for 90k.

[Lord Helpus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2Bays:
Is this thread for real, or is it simply meant to stir up emotions? Especially with that thread title! I sense troll.

Perhaps you should look over at some of the other boards, where people are struggling to afford colic surgery for a rescued horse, or simply one that they love...yet they are not posting that they "feel like the poorest person in the barn." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, there are a ton of threads about rescued horses and colic surgeries and people sending in money to help out. ALL worthy causes which should be supported.

That does not mean that this BB is the exclusive property of such topics. Or that people who ride at the biggest shows and on the top circuits should not be able to post on issues that are important to them without being called trolls.

The horse world runs the gamut from people who keep one horse in their back yard to people who live life on the road with a string of 20 horses and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. There is room for everyone in the horse world. There should be room for everyone on this BB.

Alter has said that she does not want to leave her trainer. Pages of posts telling her to leave her trainer are not really helpful to her, although they may make the poster feel better.

I was at a barn 25 years ago where I was the only customer to own less than $150,000 worth of horses. And this was 25 years ago. These barns exist. In the world of the AA circuit they are even common. Going from one SBNT to another won't necessarily change Alter's position. And, as I said earlier, if she wants to play at the very top, she has to play the game their way. Findeight's trainer, nice as she is, is a MNT in the scheme of things at WEF. In the political world of the hunter ring, she is 2 rungs down from the very big guys who dominate the rarified world of Wellington. And the SBNT's have different rules.

Alter knows it and that's the way she wants to go. Everyone has the right to choose how they want to spend their money. Many people would say that ANYONE who ones a horse is insane for throwing their money away on such a useless creature. So, people who live in glass houses and all that...

[Vandy]

Additionally, this person wants to ride in the A/Os, and you can't do that on a leased horse. No 3'6" hunter divisions for amateurs that are leasing, as has been discussed on this BB ad nauseam.

I agree with everyone who has said there are very nice horses at or below 90K that can win at the big shows in the A/Os - they just haven't done it yet in FL, etc or they would be priced higher. I would take "proven winner in the A/Os in my zone" out of the equation and beat the pavement a little without your trainer. I know it's "not done" but perhaps as suggested if you find a few propects, get videos, etc., your trainer will be willing to check them out. If not, I say find a new trainer. There are lots of super BNTs who enjoy finding diamonds in the rough, especially with a 90K budget.

As has been mentioned here, there are plenty of fancy ones off the beaten path who are priced lower because they haven't been campaigned at WEF, etc but that doesn't mean they aren't fancy enough or even that they don't have show mileage - many do, just not at WEF, Devon, etc.

I just found a lovely young mare for a client who wants to win in the A/As. This horse should get a piece of the hack in just about any company, easy ammy ride, has the scope to move up to 3'6", 100% sound, eligible everything. Cost? 10K. Why? Because she was in New Mexico and has only won at A shows in-state.

[HSM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vandy:
As has been mentioned here, there are plenty of fancy ones off the beaten path who are priced lower because they haven't been campaigned at WEF, etc but that doesn't mean they aren't fancy enough or even that they don't have show mileage - many do, just not at WEF, Devon, etc.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is VERY good point!! There are plenty of horses that are ready and able to fit the bill that alter has described, but maybe their show history has been limited by owner budget, rider limitations, etc.

It's just too bad that there isn't a mechanism for connecting those hidden gems with the people who are looking to buy them. Or maybe there is, I don't know. But it seems that there are 2 distinct levels of play that I've seen: #1 - the very upper echelons where the 6 figure sales are happening, and #2 the lower end where the diamonds-in-the rough are being traded.

Where does one go to sell or buy the horse that is well beyond the diamond-in-the-rough stage, but does not have the super high-profile kind of mileage that the BNT's are apparently limiting themselves to?

[Vandy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HSM:
Where does one go to sell or buy the horse that is well beyond the diamond-in-the-rough stage, but does not have the super high-profile kind of mileage that the BNT's are apparently limiting themselves to? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

New Mexico! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[HSM]

Oh really? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Lord Helpus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vandy:
As has been mentioned here, there are plenty of fancy ones off the beaten path who are priced lower because they haven't been campaigned at WEF, etc but that doesn't mean they aren't fancy enough or even that they don't have show mileage - many do, just not at WEF, Devon, etc.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can personally attest to this. Valor came from Stillwater, Minnesota. He had owned Minnesota for his entire show career, but he had never shown outside the state.

Once he did, he was the talk of both the east and west coast and we ended up Zone 10 and Pacific Coast Champion and second in the country.

So, Alter, look outside the box. Get off the big circuits and look at the stars of the smaller circuits. The only thing holding them back could be geography.

[horselesswonder]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 2Bays:
Is this thread for real, or is it simply meant to stir up emotions? Especially with that thread title! I sense troll.

Perhaps you should look over at some of the other boards, where people are struggling to afford colic surgery for a rescued horse, or simply one that they love...yet they are not posting that they "feel like the poorest person in the barn."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yes, there are a ton of threads about rescued horses and colic surgeries and people sending in money to help out. ALL worthy causes which should be supported.

That does not mean that this BB is the exclusive property of such topics. Or that people who ride at the biggest shows and on the top circuits should not be able to post on issues that are important to them without being called trolls.

The horse world runs the gamut from people who keep one horse in their back yard to people who live life on the road with a string of 20 horses and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. There is room for everyone in the horse world. There should be room for everyone on this BB.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good post, LH. I cannot spend close to six figures on a horse, nor can I show at WEF. But I certainly do not begrudge anyone else's ability or choice to do so. I just bought a new horse myself. It was not an OTTB or a PMU baby, because those horses would not suit my current situation (part-time amateur with a full-time job). Do I feel guilty for not rescuing a bunch of OTTBs instead of buying a nice amateur prospect? NO. If I had my own farm, you can bet I would have a rescue horse or two. But I don't. I board, and board at a facility with an indoor (for winter riding) is not cheap. So I would just say, please stop trying to make this poster feel guilty for having the financial wherewithall and desire to compete with a large show barn. It's tiresome.

[caqh]

In response to HSM's question about a mechanism for finding those horses in the middle (unearthed diamonds that aren't cleaned up yet), word of mouth is an *incredible* thing. I have found more resources on horses, tack, training, you name it, when I've casually mentioned my need at the feed or tack store. What I've also done is look at sale ads (online or hard copy), and then research the sellers website and see who's mentioned. Sometimes you stumble upon some great finds. It's like 6 degrees of separation. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif It just takes work. A lot of it.

Alter, I second prior posters' suggestions of seeking out videos, etc, and slipping them to your trainer to see if he'll take a look. I personally wouldn't disclose price until after your trainer's reaction, but I'm testy like that http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Couldn't hurt--what's the worst that could happen?

[EStieg12]

I didn't read the entire topic so I am not exactly sure what you are looking for but do you want something that can show 3'6'' next year or eventually? I am having a great time finding fancy 3 and 4 year olds for under 50,000 that are going to be worth six figures + but they are young.
Finding a packer horse for my mom... well, that is a different situation all together. I can sympathize on how difficult it is to find a nice GOING/SHOWING horse under 100 - as horrid as that is to say! We have looked at complete CRAP in every price range! The 175,000 ones are NOT any better then the 5,000 (that I have seen)!!! It's the greenies that are the good fancy ones but they certainly are not showing yet.

[Black Market Radio]

I don't know alter personally, but I have been involved in a PT with her and she is a really nice person. She is not a troll! However, I do agree that there are plenty of nice horses out there to fit your budget. I find it sad that what LH describes is so true. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Good luck Alter, with everything http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[StylishJumper]

Seems to me that anyone that is embarassed about "only" being able to afford a $90,000 horse can't. If image is the most important thing to you, you are in the wrong sport. There are too many people with too much money that will constantly out shine you.

[Jodes, Aefvue Farms Bartender]

Hey Alt..I think you raise an excellent point, and a well deserved rant. It's truly offensive that for those who can spend 100k on a horse, are treated differently those who spend 200K or 500K...your trainer should be pleased that he has a customer like you...not to mention, you can find a fabulous horse for under 90k! Horses have become expensive, yes, and there are those out there who are just as fancy as the 500k ones, for 1/2 the money(and then some)
There are some great ones here in VA!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif and by the way..are you in South Carolina?

[Feenikks]

Yeah I never heard the "embarrased" part either.

I do wish you luck alter in finding the horse of YOUR deams, Not your TRAINERS. There are SO many horses out their that would fit your range just fine. I certainly know that I cannot afford a 100K horse, but I am happy with the horses that I already do have and to me they are worth their weight in gold. I certainly do not look down at you because you can, I am sincerely happy for you I think its a great thing ... even though it seems like a forever search now the fruits of the find will be something amazing!!

[JUSTTHEMOM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alterschmalter:
Never mentioned "image" or embarassment. You manufactured those, sorry. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's AMAZING how words that were never in the original post seem to creep into later posts. It's like playing "telephone". Every post changes the sway of the entire conversation, to where the newest posters are responding to RECENT posts, and the original message gets lost. I try hard not to let this stuff get to me but today it's really annoying me because I'm getting flustered myself with annoying responses. I gotta learn that I'm dealing with the general public...and EVERY aspect of it is represented on these boards. But that's sometimes tough for me! FYI...I'd be pretty pleased myself. This is definitely a country where the "have-nots" often think the "haves" should either feel guilty, or owe them something. Geesh, I even SOUND like the republican that I am.

"SC". Gee...that's MY barn initials. Hehehehe, just kidding. While it is true, there probably isn't even a 5 figure horse in our whole barn. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Here's the quote:

"I am looking for a nice horse (doesn't have to be beautiful, and doesn't have to win the hack) to eventually do the amateurs on, and I can spend just under 6 figures. I don't think that is an unreasonably low amount, but maybe I am crazy. Also, I am in my twenties. I am pretty pleased with myself that, at this age, I am even able to afford this sport, much less a quality horse."

[milquetoast]

Yep, jtm.

I really wish StylishJumper would come back over and explain her post. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[CluesGirl]

Whoo - glad I'm not looking for a horse.

My six figures would have to include the ".00" !!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Good for you AS that you are in your 20s and can afford that kind of a horse. I'm an electrical engineer, degreed, licensed, etc. and couldn't even afford low five figures. Good thing I'm an eventer, huh?? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Just curious - what would you possibly do with a $100K horse that went lame? Or a $50K one? I think the lease sounds like a fabulous idea when you think about it in those terms!

I'd find another barn, another trainer, etc. and not feel bad that other people at your barn are part of the "Lucky Sperm Club".

[xegeba]

So Cluesgirl... those that can spend gobs of cash on a horse are from the "Lucky Sperm Club"? i.e. they all have inherited their wealth. huh...I'll have to think about this one.

[RugBug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CluesGirl:
Just curious - what would you possibly do with a $100K horse that went lame? Or a $50K one? I think the lease sounds like a fabulous idea when you think about it in those terms!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A leased horse cannot be ridden in the A/O's. There are no 3'6" hunter options for someone riding a leased horse. It's been said before, but there it is again.....

Why is it so hard for people to step outside their own experience and give advice? So what if you think $90k is a huge waste of money for one horse...that's your perspective. The OP isn't working from that perspective. She's in a different world from many of us. Translate what her situation is to what it would be in your world and advise from there. No need to point out how different her experience is from your's, or that you think she's foolish for having her perspective.

[Lucassb]

I bet the OP wishes she had never stated the amount she was thinking of spending. Had the amount been unspecified, I think many of the responses would have been more sympathetic.

AS, if you are upset about the way you have been made to feel, perhaps you should say so to the trainer. It is entirely possible that your trainer is unaware that they have upset you and will be a little more sensitive going forward.

No matter how BIG this BNT is... a client who will spend near six figures on an amateur horse is a valuable commodity, particularly in this economy. Remember you are a CLIENT, after all, and should be treated as the valued checkbook you represent. I don't mean that in an ugly way at all (there may well be a personal relationship or friendship in the mix) but simply recognize at this level of sport it is a BUSINESS first and foremost. For all parties involved.

You have gotten some good advice here, particularly in terms of taking the time to investigate the lesser known circuits for fancy horses with 3'6" mileage that haven't shown in the big leagues yet. The horses don't know it wasn't WEF http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif But they will be priced well within your budget, and should be able to move up to that level of competition without a problem.

Best of luck.

[zedcadjna]

I know quite a few a/o proven winners for under 6 figures... I know of a horse right now that is for sale for 35,000 doing 3'6 courses and second yr greens and winning in fla at the rateds.. They are out there I know of alot of them..

[Jodes, Aefvue Farms Bartender]

Alt=check your PT's http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I can help if you need it..maybe give you some leads on some stuff around here..I'd be happy to.

[Blinky]

Kudos to you for having that figure to spend. If I had it I'd spend it as well! The cost of things is relevant to how much you have and are willing to spend. Some people buy their bras at Walmart, others at Victoria Secret, while still others at Saks.

Some trainers are like real estate brokers. You say your budget is X they show your horses above X in the hopes that you'll fall in love with it and some how squak out the additional money. Can't blame them for that. But-this is where you come in http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif..the purchaser has to stick to their guns and say I only have X amount so keep on looking. When you are at the end of your rope and feel as if you will never find anything you will. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Murphy's Law.

[CluesGirl]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> A leased horse cannot be ridden in the A/O's. There are no 3'6" hunter options for someone riding a leased horse. It's been said before, but there it is again.....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually had no idea this was the case.
I obviously have no business trying to give advice here.

My post wasn't telling her the price was a waste of money at all. I was genuinely curious what would happen if say the $90K horse was purchased....then the next day went lame. What happens when you can only sell him for $2,500 and you've spent the $90K you've budgeted?

xegeba - my "LSC" reference was a little (OK a lot!) tongue-in-cheek. I know that there is a bigger percentage of people who have earned that kind of $$ than who have inherited it. I have earned everything I have, and if I was trying to be competitive in your sport and needed to spend this kind of dough, then damnit I would do it and would be proud that I could. I'm sure you can understand that it is just shocking to me that a trainer could be treating AS unfairly for not breaking the $100K mark.

OK - I'm going back to be a nerd on the eventing board now! Sorry for butting in! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[Show Hunter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alterschmalter:
And his issues are ....?

Zed, I have a really hard time believeing that. I have been looking, and networking, for almost a year now. Never seen anything like that. There is a catch somewhere. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No kidding - there has GOT to be a catch if they are that inexpensive! I looked for fancy pre-greens and A/O hunters this spring, and trust me, nothing is that cheap that can (or has the potential to) win and ribbon at the biggest shows. I wish they were that price! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[RugBug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CluesGirl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> A leased horse cannot be ridden in the A/O's. There are no 3'6" hunter options for someone riding a leased horse. It's been said before, but there it is again.....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually had no idea this was the case.
I obviously have no business trying to give advice here.

My post wasn't telling her the price was a waste of money at all. I was genuinely curious what would happen if say the $90K horse was purchased....then the next day went lame. What happens when you can only sell him for $2,500 and you've spent the $90K you've budgeted?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Clue's Girl:

Don't run off and hide. It was mentioned earlier in this thread that you can't ride a leased horse in the A/O's. I assumed you had read the entire thread...apparently you didn't. No biggie....

As for what to do with the $90k horse that goes lame...my take on that is if a person can afford a $90k horse they are probably up on the risks of owning. Anyone owning a horse at the top of their budget, no matter if that budget is $1500 or $150,000 would probably be devasted to have it go permanently lame. If you can't afford to take the money allotted for your budget and burn it, you really can't afford a horse in that price range. Hopefully most people realize this and set their budget based on it.

[Black Market Radio]

Also, most people with $$$ horses insure them http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Lord Helpus]

Lucassb -- I hope you don't mind my new signature line. It is one of the truest comments I have ever read about the horse world. I just couldn't resist. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Black Market Radio]

LH, I LOVE it!

[Ketch]

Many people purchase loss of use insurance in the event their investment is no longer resaleable.

[wanderlust]

well, alter, consider me somewhat jealous of your budget. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif That type of money in the eventing world would buy something ready to run Rolex **** within a year, and possibly a youngster with talent to boot. Maybe you should come on over to the darkside... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Just kidding. Best of luck finding a horse, and I think folks are definitely pointing you in the right direction by suggesting to get off the east coast and into the middle states/Canada.

[KC Passion]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RugBug:
Why is it so hard for people to step outside their own experience and give advice? So what if you think $90k is a huge waste of money for one horse...that's your perspective. The OP isn't working from that perspective. She's in a different world from many of us. Translate what her situation is to what it would be in your world and advise from there. No need to point out how different her experience is from your's, or that you think she's foolish for having her perspective. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen!

[vprider]

Putting aside the issue of whether you can find such a horse in your price range, how much others have paid, insurance, etc, etc, IMHO this boils down to a communications issue. Not trying to play Dr.Phil, it seems to me that you should approach your trainer with how you've been made to feel. His snarky comments likely arise out of some frustration that he cannot express more appropriately. Obviously, you wish to continue this relationship (and it is a relationship, albeit a business one), so you've got to be honest. It is my experience that such genuine efforts pay off.

Once you've cleared the air with him, I think you need to decide whether or not you can accept the fact that others in your barn may own more expensive horses. Keep your eye on the ball: your goal is to enjoy this, right? Again, JMHO.

[Lucassb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
Lucassb -- I hope you don't mind my new signature line. It is one of the most true comments I have ever read about the horse world. I just couldn't resist. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lord Helpus, I am quite flattered http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Use it to your heart's content.

[Pat]

I'm late in this one, but...

This trainer's got rocks in his head!! First off, I could have sold you a horse last year that could have done everything you wanted for significantly less than your price range. Second, even if you wouldn't look at something that low in price, nearly 6 figures is still a decent amout to work with. There are PLENTY of very nice horses all across the country in the high 5's that will do what you want, and probably a bit more.

You don't have to give more info than you want, but I would like to know what region of the country you are in.

Oh, I could care less what your budget is. If you told him you need something for half your current budget, he should atleast PRETEND to be hopeful.

[Miss Maddie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alterschmalter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I think the way trainer's treat some of their customer's is crazy! We bought a horse out of Europe last year and didn't pay over $30,000. Our trainer told me that they doubted they would be able to find anything in our price range! We did though! He got ribbons at WEF in the pre greens and children's. He was 2nd once behind a $500,000 horse! I think the prices have gone through the roof. But because of the need to win people will pay anything for that BLUE RIBBON!. I think the kids today, mine included, think that $50,000 for a horse seems just fine. This world is so screwed up with what we have to pay. Someone once told me, "Every horse is only worth $1,500.00, anything you get beyond that is all salesmanship." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, but what's the solution? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I will tell you a story. I went to Morocco once when I was backpacking around during summer vacation from college and was a very poor student. We spent some time in the markets there. Unfortunately busloads of rich American tourists also spent time in the markets there. It was like a conspiracy, the sellers wouldn't go below a certain price (and we KNEW it was way too high, a total rip-off), because they knew that if we didn't pay it, someone else would come along and pay it.

The only way the prices would start to normalize is if *everyone* that came through the market said, I'm not gonna pay 5 times the real value of that handbag.

It's all supply and demand. There is a demand for horses at these highly inflated prices because people are willing to pay them.

[spotted mustang]

I didn't read all these pages, but let me see if I got this right:

You're in your 20ies and can only afford a 90,000 $ horse?

My heart is bleedin' for you, kiddo http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[spotted mustang]

Then again, thinking about it...MY horse was a six-figure horse:

2,500.00 $

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Hucklebug]

I don't have the energy to read all the posts, but another idea is to look cross-discipline. Quite frankly, eventers don't sell in the same price ranges as hunters. I've known a lot of very successful junior horses that were event horses that were "too slow" or "too something" that ended up being top junior horses...you might not even have to blow through you're whole budget. I know one that won an AHSA year end award that was purchased for 40k as a "rejected eventer" and won like crazy everywhere and another legendary junior hunter (now sadly deceased) ex-eventer was Holly Sorenson's "the Gatsby"--that horse showed for years and he was a great eventer find! They tend to have the scope for the 3'6" too!

[RoXyJK5]

ok, I stayed away from this thread...but now I must comment.

If you have close to 6 figures for a *horse*...I wouldn't say you were on a budget! LOL. Not trying to say you're cocky and all, but good grief you could have a spectacular horse for that. And for that kind of money, it ought to be!

I couldn't ever spend that kind of money on a horse. I don't think I could ever buy a $7,000 dollar horse, LOL. I take what I can get and enjoy it.

I personally wouldn't be happy with the trainer if he made me feel as though I was 'poor', but like you said, you know and trust his judgement, but I think that this judgement call was out of line and absurd. You can find a horse that is fabulous horse for much less than that...Just look around. Good luck with your search!

[seal]

I really feel for the OP. I think the posts by Lord Helpus, findeight and others were really helpful in explaining her predicament. What many people do not realize is that if you want to "run with the big dogs" the SBNT's--a bottomless checkbook is almost de rigeur. Sad but true. And that is a choice.

What to do if you do not posssess a bottomless wallet? Either somehow find one and cough up the money, or make the necessary compromises. That's it. End of story. It really doesn't matter if less expensive horses can be bought elsewhere because that is not in the trainer's agenda. You have to decide if you either fit into the barn culture or not, and if you don't and it's not fixable you either live with it and be miserable or lower your expectations.

I have firsthand experience of being the *poor* relation at a BNT barn, and it wasn't fun. The pressure to spend and to show and therefore spend again was enormous. I was constantly having fantasies of winning the lottery so that I could afford to particpate in all the pagentry. I quickly realized that unless I could afford to buy high six figure horses without blinking, then I really couldn't afford to particpate in the sport--at that level.

You can still participate, however, it is crucial to take an inventory of not only your finances but your risk tolerance. Also what do want to accomplish? What are your goals? What will ultimatey make you happy?

I decided that unless I could instantly become a multimillionaire, I wasn't going to be able to run with the big dogs. At the time, if I came into big money I would have jumped at the oopportunity to do so. Now, with the passage of time, my goals have changed and you may find yours do too.

The key to happiness is having your goals/dreams coincide with reality. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Easier said than done. I wish you luck.

[Bumpkin]

Seal that is soooooooooooo TRUE. Need I say more? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Dare to Dream]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lost In Space:
I think the prices have gone through the roof. But because of the need to win people will pay anything for that BLUE RIBBON!. I think the kids today, mine included, think that $50,000 for a horse seems just fine. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't agree with you more! My first pony was a rescue, we paid $900 for him and he kicked butt on the "A" circuit, even qualifying for the Pony Finals.

My Children's/Junior horse was $30k and a piece of crap in comparison to my $900 heinz 57 pony.

My current horse is a greenie, after I sold her mom, I have a measley $1200 invested in her. She is projected to hold her own just fine at the larger A's.

Makes me sick to think of the prices that are on these horses. But, it will be poetic justice when my 4 figure beats a 6 figure. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[race_run_jump]

OK - no time to read the thread - but contact Faraway69 and fly to Argentina and look at horses. The dollar is incredibly strong, and having just gotten back, I can tell you that the quality of horses down there is spectacular. Plus - it is a fun trip and Viv is a blast and knows everyone - trainers etc. Good luck!!

[zedcadjna]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alterschmalter:
And his issues are ....?

Zed, I have a really hard time believeing that. I have been looking, and networking, for almost a year now. Never seen anything like that. There is a catch somewhere. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


No really there are horses out there, I know 2 of my students have purchased them, they are sound passed the vet w/ flying colors. I know of a few some may just be doing fist yrs some are not, but I know where some are located...It is a matter of looking and believe me I look for the cheap ones as not all of my students can afford the high priced ones..Pt me and I can give you a few names on where to look, most are located in fla..

[Diva98]

Have to agree with alter - especially to have a horse winning at the 3'6" at the really big shows, you aren't going to find one showing and winning at 3'6" for $30k. Which is why I stay in the 3 foot - although there are some damn nice and pricey horses in that division as well!

Alter - I think it is great that you have the resources to pursue this. I am in the same age range and I am pretty pleased with myself for supporting this expensive sport -and I hope one day I can be at the level you are.

I haven't read all the posts, but is there an option of importing something young and working with it for a few years before you get to the 3'6"? I haven't ever gotten to horse shop in Europe, but I have friends who have gotten great deals there. And I am in Michigan and we travel to Canada quite a bit to see what our northern neighbors have to offer. Just a thought. I also agree with the poster about looking at horses for sale from different disciplines.

It's got to be frustrating to have your trainer not respect your spending limit - have you tried talking to him/her about your frustrations? (My apologies if I am retreading on topics.) It might help to have a very frank and open conversation.

Good luck!

[LH]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alterschmalter:
Not in the 30k range, to win on the A circuit. Sorry, but I'm just not buying it.

I'm not wet behind the ears, and I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I've been doing this consistently now for many, many years, and shopping for this particular horse tirelessly--and, with the help of this thread, doing a little on my own without my trainer as well. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They just don't exist for 30-35k, I'm sorry. I think you and I are miscommunicating about exactly what I am looking for, but I appreciate your input.

I seriously doubt there are winners at WEF who were 35k as first year horses though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Although I understand your view, I still resent the attitude that you "can't win" unless you spend a lot of $$. I have to add my 2 cents here -- I won all summer at AA shows with 30+ in my middle a/a division on a pre-green TB, 5 year old, who cost me LESS than $20k. In fact, I was champion in July at a big AA show in the rain in a ring that my horse only walked into the day that he showed -- there was no prep, and he did not do the pregreen division. My trainer hasn't sat on him for almost a year. The horse is an above average mover and jumper, but doesn't yank his knees up to his ears (good for ammies and jrs!). The move up to 3'6" should only force him to jump better, and I'm going to give it a shot on him in December as a 5-coming-6 year old.

So, it can be done. Maybe not for the average A/A, but for some. I find the jumps pretty well, but I only have one horse showing now, and I only show a couple of times per month, so it's not like I'm in the show ring that much, and yet we still won pretty consistently. We were qualified for NAL, WIHS and NHS finals -- I didn't go because of work conflicts.

My point is not to exclude a "gem in the rough" because it costs less than $100k -- you never know who is going to take the green inexpensive horse all the way!

Good luck!

[CuteHunter]

Alter- out of curiosity, why are you so not willing to give the horses that Zedcadjna is talking about? I mean, at worst you prove yourself right that its too good to be true, at best you end up with what you want/need and some money to spare. Not trying to attack you at all, I just find it odd after you have looked so hard, that you would be so quick to assume that Zedcadjna's ideas on horses couldnt possibly help you.

[zedcadjna]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alterschmalter:
Not in the 30k range, to win on the A circuit. Sorry, but I'm just not buying it.

I'm not wet behind the ears, and I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I've been doing this consistently now for many, many years, and shopping for this particular horse tirelessly--and, with the help of this thread, doing a little on my own without my trainer as well. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They just don't exist for 30-35k, I'm sorry. I think you and I are miscommunicating about exactly what I am looking for, but I appreciate your input.

I seriously doubt there are winners at WEF who were 35k as first year horses though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ive been in the business for over 20 yrs so Ive been doing this for along time as well.. I showed on the fla circuit as that is where I am from... Like I said 2 of my students purchased horses that are under that amount.. So please dont tell me that they are not out there they are.. They have show records to prove it...Sometimes you come across horses that people need to sell for one reason or another and that is how these horses came about, but they are out there...

[LH]

alter -- you are so right, and a prospect is just that, a "prospect." My greenie is just that -- very green. Even my trainer who found him for me jokes that the horse only ocassionally does something to remind us that he's only 5!!!

BUT, if you can't find the one that's all made up, don't give up on making one up yourself. For as many cheap prospects that don't make it, there are a whole bunch of well-bred VERY expensive ones that are chickens/unsound/hot/strong/small/. . . you know the drill. I know of too many stories of "not-cheap" horses bought out of a program that, once they left that program, weren't that good in the ring anymore, for what ever reason.

So, look around, keep your mind open, and find one (well within your price range, spend the rest on mileage/training?) that is suited to you and your abilities and goals.

[milquetoast]

zed,
Then by all means, PT me about them! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif If they are up to the standards you have said they are, I'll be glad to come back over here and eat my words on this BB!

[zedcadjna]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alterschmalter:
Definitely didn't mean to imply they are not out there, LH!

But the attitude that they are a dime a dozen, as zed seems to imply, is simply inaccurate. The stories like yours are way, way less common than stories of overpriced "prospects" that have done nothing of significance in the show ring. Now THOSE are a dime a dozen. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


In no way am I saying they are a dime a dozen, I know they ae not.. you are misunderstanding what Im saying...

They are out there is all Im saying, some people just look in different places then others, and I have always been lucky to find them... I have a friend in fla that I work with every now and then when it comes to purchasing a horse for someone.. I guess we've just been lucky thats all... I know they are not a dime a dozen,

[milquetoast]

Well, zed, see my post above. Put your money where your mouth is! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Show Hunter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alterschmalter:
Because, and I'm sure there are people on here who will back me up, I know for a fact that horses winning at the 3'6" level on the A circuit ARE. NOT. AVAILABLE. for that amount of money. They don't exist. So I'm thinking zed is describing a different sort of horse, maybe one that will win at the local level or whathaveyou.

I don't mean that to sound snobbish, it really is just a fact of the supply and demand of the A circuit.

For a point of reference, I just called about one in NY, a mare, who has set foot in the show ring exactly once. She did the baby greens. She was priced last week at 85k. Sounds exorbitant, right? No one will ever pay that for an unproven horse, right? Well, I called today and she was gone. Apparently, two trainers had gotten into a bidding war over her over the weekend. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Stories like LH's? I totally buy them. She bought an unproven horse who was ready to do the 3 foot when she bought him. Now those, although you may have to look awhile, are out there for a lower price. A proven 3'6" winner? Doesn't exist. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Totally, totally true. They do NOT exist without a MAJOR hole. I looked at fancy pre-greens and not a thing that would be fancy enough to compete at the biggest shows eventually in the A/Os was under $60K. And those were Pre-Greens! Not even proven in the 3'6" ring!

I totally agree with you alter, there's no way a 3'6" horse that is capable of winning at the biggest places is priced at $35K. Gotta be talking about different levels here.

Now, I do know of one 1st Year horse that was priced closer to your budget. Don't kow if he is still avail at that price, but he's nice. Won in VT, FL, etc. PT me if you want more info Alter. I did horse shopping earlier this summer and heard about a few nice horses that may be in your budget.

[LH]

Alter, my horse was not ready to "step into" the 3' ring -- he cantered over 2' without a lead change and had been to one horse show. I put the time, effort, and patience into him, and he's a legitimate horse. I know he's not In Disguise, but I doubt you'd find one of those either, even with $1million.

Since you aren't finding what you had intended with your checkbook, I think the folks here are suggesting you broaden your horizons and think a little more long term to end up with the 3'6" horse you want. It's NEVER a guarantee that any horse will be winning in the 3'6" ring. And we don't know if you're a clever enough rider to find the jumps at that height, but if you trust your trainer enough to help you with a project, you might end up with a really nice horse worth more than your current budget.

[zedcadjna]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alterschmalter:
Uh, this would not be my first foray into the 3'6" ring. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Just to clarify. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

See, your story makes sense to me--green horse, needed some time, etc.

Funny, I still haven't received a PT from zed ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I did PT you..

[milquetoast]

alterschmalter stands corrected!

PT'd you back ... but you still haven't offered up videos of these horses, or told me where i can look at them or whatever ...

Like I said, I am totally prepared to eat my words about these horses! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[zedcadjna]

I wish I had a video of them.. I will PT you w/ some names of people that may beable to help you.. Right now the kids are home so I'll wait til they go to bed, and get #'s for you..

[Show Hunter]

PT'd you back Alter http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Erin]

Ahem... a reminder. Posting about horses for sale, or offering to PT info about horses for sale, ain't allowed. You can discuss issues related to the buying and selling of horses, but you're not allowed to buy and sell through the BB.

So please, keep the thread to generalities. Don't post info about horses that are currently for sale.

[zedcadjna]

Sorry Erin...

[Show Hunter]

Me too - sorry about that.

[PlusTax]

This is off topic but a girl at my barn tried two horses last week that were in your price range who had been in the top 5 nationally in the juniors (recently) and won at indoors and win the hacks. The horses are still showing in the 3'6" now and passed vet. People are getting so desperate since the horse market is so bad that horses who would normally be 200K are going for your price range, it just takes some looking. Sometimes horses that you think are out of your price range may not be especially if they've been on the market a while! PT me if you want to know which horses I'm talking about.

Sorry about your original problem though. It sucks but I guess it's part of the horse world. Been there, done that, feel your pain...

[Blinky]

Afterall this discussion, I just ask that once you buy one you let us know how much you spent! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It'll be interesting to see if you get in below budget or not.

[tikihorse]

Oh my gosh! If your trainer can't find you a nice horse for that, it's time to find another trainer! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[Snowbird]

Did anyone stop to think that if $90K is the poorest one in the barn, how expensive could it be to have the most expensive?

Especially when you think about the fact that the average annual income of a horse owner is only $60,000 a year.

[WWCountry]

I haven't read all 9 pages--but it seems to me it's up to your trainer to get "creative". That's why they make a 15% commission! He may have to look outside his regular contacts. I'm not sure where your located, but the midwest is certainly cheaper than the northeast. He's just being lazy. While I agree that your money won't get you a current 3'6" winning competitor at WEF, it certainly should buy you a solid prospect. JMO, but I could not be in a barn where I was made to feel like the poor relative--by the customers or the trainer. It's a sick and twisted view of the world.

[Plumcreek]

I agree with WWCountry. Here in Colorado, two summers ago (when horses prices were still higher) a lady bought a going 3'6" horse, who had qualified for indoors, for $75,000. He was pretty, too. Your trainer needs to talk to some midwest contacts, many of whom are back East now.

I agree about the difficulty you face. I just took a vacation and visited the Capital Challenge Horse Show last Tues. and Wed. to watch the pro hunter classes. Almost all the horses were top class conformation individuals just standing there, and tall and gorgeous as well. Any of them would not have been cheap at the greenest stage.

Your trainer may just want to shop at the convenient shows amoung his buddies whom he trusts. Most trainers do. If you really need a made 3'6" horse, vs a pregreen one with obvious move up qualities, I would say you will have to look in the regions of the country where AA shows are not restricted to the very affluent (read Midwest, Northwest or the Tucson winter circuit, not Indio), where the top horses are cheaper because of where they live. If you PT me, I can give you some likely trainer names in Colorado.

I just went back and read Lord Helpus' post. Everything she says is right. You may have to do the legwork, so your trainer can look smart.

[Zig]

I'm sorry but I think this is rediculous... alter why not save your money... take a chance anb bring something up yourself...

IMHO so many have lost sight of true horsemanship.. they want to buy the fancy horse and walk into the ring tomorrow...

I do realize my mentality is not for all.. but its not like you described your goal as being World Cup or the Olympics.....

SOOOO... my question is repeated.. why not find a young 2 year old and bring it up.. or is this just a status symbol you want to brag about (disclaimer... for those of you out there doing it for that reason.. fine.. just be honest about it.. I, and those with my mindset could care less)... showing is such a funny thing.. like anything else.. it depends on the day, your mood, the horse's mood, etc.

Lets not forget Snowman.. he was purchased for what.. 85 or 185 dollars???? Granted.. many years ago and with inflation and cost of living that may be a 8500 horse in todays market.

[houndsRus]

I’ve thought about this thread since it began, as I’ve almost always been the “poorest” person at AAA show barns. 30+ years later, here’s is why I stay:

If I want to be my best, I must ride with the best trainer I can afford and expose myself to the highest levels of competition I can access—even if I just go for a week or two and root for my home team when season WEF comes around. There’s nothing like standing by the schooling ring and listening to those who literally shape the sport train their clients/horses. Nor is there anything like watching 90+ 3’AA Hunters go and comparing my placings to those of the real judge. I’m always trying to learn, to improve, anyway I can. I even visit my cousin’s kids at Indio so I can be exposed to BNTs I don’t see all the time.

I could jump ponds and be a big fish in a smaller pond, but I’d have to trade down in trainer quality and connections. The more connected my trainer is in the upper ranks of “trainerdom” the better access I have to other BNTs their knowledge and horses I could never afford. I might not ever own the most expensive horse in the barn, but I’ve been lucky enough over the years to have lessons on a few. I know what a super star horse feels like so that when ride my “cheap” one I know the feel I’m looking for. Not that I come close to achieving it—it’s a goal.

I can b**** and moan, and occasionally do, about bratty, spoiled owners, entitled, arrogant BNTs, corruption, crime and the like in the industry. But when it comes to the end of the day, the only way I can be my best is to wade right into it all, tune out what is “wrong with the industry” for that moment and learn what I can from those at the top.

Hope this helps.
Ol’hound

[summerfling]

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gifi *wish* i had just under 6 figures to spend..*gasp*

Just wnated to let you know that a friend of mine bought a medium pony 4 years ago, 9 years old...for 600 bucks...yes 600 bucks

a couple years later she showed A and was 4th overall

Maybe you should buy a 'cheaper' horse than work with it?

In my opinion thats WAY to much to be spending on a horse http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

and to think u thought u were poor

gawd I wonder what i would be classified as http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

[xegeba]

come on over to the dark side... where 100,000.00 gets a tweener , maybe, if you can ride. I think a new reality show is in order.

[Illyria]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zig:
I'm sorry but I think this is rediculous... alter why not save your money... take a chance anb bring something up yourself...

IMHO so many have lost sight of true horsemanship.. they want to buy the fancy horse and walk into the ring tomorrow... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why is it so bad if someone does not want a young/green horse?

If one has the money to look after (and buy) the horse, then what is the problem?

How does spending over a certain amount of money make one not as good a horse person as one who doesn't? From what I've seen, these horses are very well looked after _and_ very well ridden. Honestly, if someone offered me $90 000 for my horse, he'd probably be sold, and if they can walk in the ring and win the next day, then I'll take it that he was trained well.

Buying a young or green horse is a huge risk too. They can also go lame or get sick, and then you have vet bills and board bills and farrier bills still, and possibly very big training bills...and in the end you might have spent well into the 5 figures (even green horses of that calibre are not cheap) on the horse and still not have one to do what you want (in this case, an A/O hunter at the top levels).

It is a lot of money to spend, but in some ways it's a safer investment (if there is such a thing with horses) to get one that's been around a bit, and already or mostly trained because you know what you're looking at (a 3'6 hunter, hopefully - that's not so easy to predict with the green ones, and I don't mean just whether they can make it to the other side of a 3'6 jump or not)...and if it's been showing successfully, it's probably sound, and if it has issues, it's probably managable.

[fourmares]

Alter is right. You will have a hard time finding a horse winning at the Big A shows, that can pack an owner who can only ride twice a week, plus shows for under six figures....however, you can find a horse who is showing consistantly in the three foots and can move up, or a horse that hasn't shown in the A's but has shown in the C's, or a nice young horse, or an older horse that needs to be "maintained"... I could sware that in the original post you said you would take a younger horse or an older one with some soundness issues, but I may be remembering incorrectly.

I think that you really ought to consider looking on the West Coast (but not Southern Cal.) or Texas or the Mid-West, where they don't have many A shows, or many BNTs. Try looking in the Bay Area Equestrine Network's classifieds... and be patient, your perfect horse is out there, somewhere.

[xegeba]

Alter knows that she can find THE horse... she also knows that when she shows up with the horse that trainer had nothing to do with... this = PISSED OFF trainer. Please don't say go find another BNT. It ain't that easy.

[Weatherford]

OK, I admit, I have not read this entire thread... but, high five figures will get you an up and coming GP horse here in IReland - certainly a horse good enough to do the Amateur hunter with... as a matter of fact, I have one..... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (as I am sure many people on this board do.... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

[Weatherford]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWCountry:
I haven't read all 9 pages--but it seems to me it's up to your trainer to get "creative". That's why they make a 15% commission! He may have to look outside his regular contacts. I'm not sure where your located, but the midwest is certainly cheaper than the northeast. He's just being lazy. While I agree that your money won't get you a current 3'6" winning competitor at WEF, it certainly should buy you a solid prospect. JMO, but I could not be in a barn where I was made to feel like the poor relative--by the customers or the trainer. It's a sick and twisted view of the world. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

15% commission??? not in the world of "BNT"'s - double, triple, quadrulple that, at least... or better yet - pay 1.2 million for a horse for which the owner got 120,000... (trainer pocketed the different) or go to the BNT who said "I make at LEAST $100,000 on EVERY horse I sell." (note the "AT LEAST" ) (and these two examples are NOT the same person!)

As has been posted here skillions of times, sold, nice 3'6" horses are ONLY valuable in the US - in the rest of the world they are considered "riding school horses". Think about it!

Lastly, from the pros I know in the US who buy a lot over here, NOTHING is selling - especially in the $15-$100,000 range... you just have to keep looking - and if YOU find, rather than your trainer, get that commission in writing. Actually, do that ANYWAY...

[MistyBlue]

Let's please not generalize that all riders spending high 5 to 6 figures on a horse are "buying" their ribbons or only casual riders who are hoping the extra money spent on the horse makes up for their lack of saddle time.
These riders are working with top trainers on prety nice horses...of course they can ride. And well. A $90k horse isn't going to go out and win in good company with an untalented rider aboard.
A friend of mine has 6 horses (I think that's what she has right now) all over the 6 figure sales mark. She rides and trains every day very hard. She shows a lot...but she's also constantly learning and schooling. She's a very talented rider who happens to able to afford these horses. And if the rest of us were in her tax bracket with her income and wanting to compete at the highest level we could...then we'd also be happily marching out to purchase 6 figure horses.
And FWIW...years back I rode a few horses in the high 5 figures and low 6's...didn't mean I was Olympic material the minute my hiney hit the saddle. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
A because the OP can afford a horse in the $90k range or so...let's not all speculate about her income. It's none of our business how she made her income. She could have an excellent career even at her young age...she could have a trust fund...she could have inherited a large amount, etc. Heck...if I took out a home equity I could probably afford the same amount for a horse. But since I'm not competing it doesn't make any sense to do that.
But just because she has the money to spend on a high 5 figure horse does not make her a bad rider or spoiled or any other such thing. There's no need for snide comments about "oh, too bad...so sorry you're 'poor'!"

[Lord Helpus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
OK, I admit, I have not read this entire thread... but, high five figures will get you an up and coming GP horse here in IReland - certainly a horse good enough to do the Amateur hunter with... as a matter of fact, I have one..... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (as I am sure many people on this board do.... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>\

Weatherford, I hate to call you out on this because I really respect you. But your comment is the latest and easiest to quote here.

Hey, y'all -- if you have or know of horses who are worth $90,000 and can be winning in Florida this December (if you had bothered to read this thread, that was one of the original criteria of the OP) then why are you all sitting there so poor? Why don't you sell these incredible horses or go find them and become agent for them?

Weatherford, I know you used to be involved in the H/J world here, but it has been a while since you have been. The OP wants to go to WEF and be in the ribbons this winter. Will your up and coming GP Irish horse be competitive with Chognard, Saint Nick, Acapella, Lyrical, In Disguise? Can it beat Small Talk in the under saddle? Could it go out to California and even jog in behind Red Panda?

A top level A/O horse is a unique creature. The A/O division is possibly the toughest division at the shows today. One does not buy an up and coming GP horse or a talented event horse and feel confident in turning it into a winning hunter at this level.

An ex-COTH'er (who was asked to leave in the great purge of 12/02) is a very good A/A rider. He has been Ch every time out this year in the competitive Va. circuit, usually also winning the hack. He has a nice older horse who, in its heyday was a good 3'6" horse, but who is now in semi-retirement doing the 3'.

This week he showed at Capital Challenge, which is the big final indoor show for the A/A's, and so the best of the horses from the whole country show up.

The first day he got an 8th over fences and did not get a hack ribbon.

THAT's the difference between having a nice horse and a top horse. Perhaps the horses you all are talking about are capable of being champion every time out all year long at A and AA shows on their home circuits. But the difference between them and the ones winning at WEF is the reason that Alter cannot find what she is looking for.

One final comment to the [many] posters who feel the need to comment on Alter's choice and ability to spend her money on such a horse. --- You all are poverty snobs! Get off you high horse or whatever it is. There is no *shame* in being wealthy, however one comes by that wealth. And having money allows one the freedom to choose how to spend it. If you wouldn't spend this much money on a horse, fine. Then don't. Alter didn't ask you if you would. And I don't think that most people care whether or not you would. Are you proud of the fact that you can't and feel the need to brag about it? I can't, for the life of me, understand why so many people have to rag on Alter for her life choices.

Last I looked, this was a capitalist country. Accumulation of wealth was not a dirty word. If I was Alter I would be incredibly proud that I was able to play in the WEF sandbox. And I think that she has made her pride evident in the nicest possible way. She deserves to find a lovely horse and whup them other ammies.

I say, GOOD FOR YOU ALTER! You go girl!

[Duffy]

While I do agree that there are horses out there that would fit alter's desires, it will not be as easy to find as some posters think. She must treat lightly because of her wishing to continue her relationship with her trainer. He/she is obviously worth staying with in alter's opinion.

I do, however, think that said trainer should be willing to utilize some resources outside of his/her comfort zone, i.e., go westward or northward and go ahead and give up some profit on the right horse. He/she will more than make it up in training fees, etc. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As I mentioned before, it is going to take a LOT of legwork (and/or a lot of luck http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) to find this horse. But, I believe it can be done, especially since alter is willing to buy a pre-green, not a proven 3'6" winning horse.

LordHelpus, said older A/A wasn't Champion every time out - just the vast majority of outings. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I remember being thrilled with my 8th place at CC on a horse I leased from The Barracks as well. Plus, even 8th place paid good $$ there - talk about a shockaroo! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

Alter, I read earlier that you were doing so searching on your own. Please let us know if you find anything. I don't envy you. I can't even THINK about buying a horse in your price range, and there are many other folks on the BB who couldn't either. I have NEVER shown A/O divisions, and now I am back to riding dressage. I do know, in my short 4-5 years showing hunters, that A/O is EXTREMELY compeditive, same with Juniors. seems like you may be stuck between a rock and a hard place because so many people can not even fathom buying a horse for $90,000, yet the people you compete against, have spent thousands more. That definitely changes the perspective on things. People at my barn look at ME cross eyed when I mention spending $8000 - $12,000++ on a weanling. (I have not, I bred myself because I couldn't afford that upfront) To me, that is not an unreasonable amount to spend on a baby, to them, it is out of this world. It is just a persepctive issue. Good luck in your search and I do hope that you find something. Part of me hopes that the horse you find is one YOU found while looking on your own.

[PiedPiper]

I would think, and correct me if I am wrong, that even if you find the horse you are looking for, won't that cause problems with your trainer? Wouldn't he be out of the commission?

I would think that looking on your own would be quite difficult without your trainer.

What is are you thinking you will do about that? Just curious. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[BoldChance]

my goodness, altersmchalter... Mind sharing some of that? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif All I want is a nice, big bay TB gelding with second levelish dressage work on him (doesn't have to be solid) plus changes, and that has jumped 3' or so in... around 9 years old. $4000 canadian should do it http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But serious - he is being, IMO, utterly ridiculous. You should not even need to spend that much to get a gorgeous horse already doing or nearly doing what you eventually want to do, most especially if you're willing to deal with a few issues (as I seem to remember you mentioning?)

I am in my twenties and can't afford $2000 without selling my current beastie... I'd say you should be beyond pleased with yourself, and don't let him bully you into spending more than you can afford http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Editing this after reading the entire thread. Send me an email if you're interested in hearing about a single horse I know of....

Further, The whole politics and workings of the A/AA/AAA (huh?) show circuits floor me. The hunter circuit does not even exist locally, out here (closest is 4.5 hours away), and i'm just happy getting to a couple of small local shows a year (if I can find trailering). I am flabergasted, truly.

Good luck finding what you are looking for ! There has to be *something* out there http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ]

BC

[Blinky]

Alter-good luck in your horse hunt. It is never easy. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LH-Thanks for all the insight. I aspire to get to that level of showing.

[ProzacPuppy]

As my trainer commented about a girl's newly imported GP horse- "Her parents don't have very much money so they bought the cheapest one they looked at". The horse cost $95,000 (this I know for a fact). As I stand there with my $2000 OTTB (wanna feel like the poverty stricken!!).

In the last year I've seen quite a few horses that cost over $150,000 changing hands. We've had a few in that price range in our barn.

There are alot of people spending that kind of money on horses. Good for them if they've got it. Makes your riding experience that much nicer.

Unfortunately, recent experience with the "hunter world" tells me that what alter is looking for may be beyond her price range without either some compromises or major searching.

And yes, Texas does have quite a few A shows (not as competitive as some places on both coasts) but ours are spread over an 11 month show season (only July has absolutely NOTHING).

Prices do tend to be lower here in TX but the people that have horses as described (Peter Pletcher comes to mind) are going to be very high dollar.

Personally, I would think a good trainer who has his client's best interests at heart would help find a suitable horse for the price range. A little "creative thinking" and networking could go a long way.

[Zig]

QUOTE]
Why is it so bad if someone does not want a young/green horse?

If one has the money to look after (and buy) the horse, then what is the problem?

How does spending over a certain amount of money make one not as good a horse person as one who doesn't?

Buying a young or green horse is a huge risk too. They can also go lame or get sick, and then you have vet bills and board bills and farrier bills still, QUOTE]

I didnt say it was bad. I was merely a suggestion. The OP has also indicated that it does not have to be a made horse, she would be happy with something in the pre-greens to bring up.

I think you have misinterpreted my comment. It just seems that people are doing less with their horses and showing-up to ride. Which is fine too... I just prefer to do most of the work myself or interactively with a trainer (the things I need help with etc.) It gives me satisfaction to know that I did a majority of the work myself and got the ribbon. As I said, my cup of tea isnt for everyone.

And on buying a green horse, any horse can go lame, needs shoes, etc. I would assume the OP intends to insure against these risks.

If I offended you or anyone else in my comments, that was not my intention, and I apologize.

[Illyria]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zig:
I didnt say it was bad. I was merely a suggestion. The OP has also indicated that it does not have to be a made horse, she would be happy with something in the pre-greens to bring up.

I think you have misinterpreted my comment. It just seems that people are doing less with their horses and showing-up to ride. Which is fine too... I just prefer to do most of the work myself or interactively with a trainer (the things I need help with etc.) It gives me satisfaction to know that I did a majority of the work myself and got the ribbon. As I said, my cup of tea isnt for everyone.

And on buying a green horse, any horse can go lame, needs shoes, etc. I would assume the OP intends to insure against these risks.

If I offended you or anyone else in my comments, that was not my intention, and I apologize. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I apologize as well. I didn't mean to go off on you like that; it's just I don't like the perception (stereotype?) that if you can afford to pay someone to ride and or look after your horse it must mean that you're not a good horse-person or that you don't care about your horses.

Also, there's quite a difference between a 2 or 3 or even a 4 year old that's just been started or unshown and an A circuit pre-green horse that's been showing succesfully, probably both in training and in price...I believe the OP wanted something that's showing but maybe not yet at the 3'6 level, which can be counted as green depending on who it's contrasted against, but not something she'd have to start at the very beginning with (correct me if I'm wrong).

Canada/Pacific Northwest has had some nice horses. Like another poster said, Bavaria and Doubletake came from there, as did Overdressed, The Winning Edge, Lifestyle, Finishing Touch (did the A/Os and 2nd yrs, I believe he does the A/As now), King of Hearts (jr hunter), Calliope (jr hunter, though I'm not sure what she's doing now), to name a few more.

[horsekls]

I just bought a new horse to do the Childrens hunter's with. Our budget was 20,000 and it was hard to find the right horse within our budget. A lot of times we found a horse that looked great from the ground, and jumped and moved really well, but wasnt that easy to ride. So for us, it wasnt just a matter of finding a horse withen our price range, it was finding the right horse for me in our price range. The horse we just bought was very cheap. He is a great mover and jumper, and will do really well in the Children's at the A shows. We got really lucky finding him, but it took us about 3 or 4 months. So I know that it is hard. I know that really good cheap horses are out there, but you just have to look hard to find them.

[Duffy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PiedPiper:
I would think, and correct me if I am wrong, that even if you find the horse you are looking for, won't that cause problems with your trainer? Wouldn't he be out of the commission?

I would think that looking on your own would be quite difficult without your trainer.

What is are you thinking you will do about that? Just curious. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think any trainer would have a problem with their client doing the legwork and presenting them with their top choice(s) for them to evaluate and then make a reasonable commission.

Over-inflated commissions are nice income to trainers. But, it seems to me that alter plans on showing lots and the trainers will make plenty on that. Plus, if she buys a pre-green horse, there will be even more additional training.

[2ndyrgal]

And my idea of six figures includes the two to the right of the decimal point! But in a class of 17 today,at a very well attended Hunter Trials, my bargain basement, AgDirect, paid less than half what the owner asked, stands bad, cribs, has some weird "Quarter horse spur stop buttons" was third with my one student in pretty good company. Pay what you can, buy what you want, enjoy. Oh, and go in gleaming like you came to win.

[Carol Ames]

I don't really know how this thread started but, let me throw in that, there are horses you can find for under $1,000 who, have the raw talent, and,basic training to do "A shows, they just need a litle "polishing up', ie., stable management, grooming , and, showmanship to have them competitive in the "big shows", to me, one of he most rewarding aspects of working with horses was taking horses like this , someones' backyard horse, or lesson horse, "fitting them up", giving them a good ride,and,have them be competitive, and then , passing them on, through sale, to someonewho , has the the money to "go on with them"the entire developmental process I found rewarding, though,seeing them move on was always difficult, http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif but, also rewarding http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif to hear from the the new owners how much th thtey love their horses.These horses are available to be found, they do however require time, effort ,, money, and,patience http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif to move up to the bigger shows.

[BarbB]

I know this has been a serious discussion (for the most part) of showing in the big leagues against more expensive, veteran horses.

but........on the lighter side.......

You COULD just move to a really cheap barn where you would have the MOST expensive horse that anyone has ever seen!
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif
If all else fails... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Just consider it http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

***disclaimer for everyone who is now offended.....this was a joke! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif***

[Carol Ames]

iwoudagrewithis need to win people will pay anything for that BLUE RIBBON!. I think the kids today, mine included, think that $50,000 for a horse seems just fine. This world



One ofhe facts i leaned from WEF is that pople want a horsefrom the"right barn" http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif ,and, once they get them have no http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif more feeling for them than they would http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif for a boat or a piece of jewelry; http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif in fact, I knewsomeonewhose father bought her a $70,00 horse to do theA/A,and, she renamed him after a piece ofjewelry her father hadalso gotten her.howappropriate! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif , and, of course because he had cost so muchtherethrecouldnever be issues of soreness, http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif saddle fit, or shoeing; that, was one of my last two jobs, and, the one after that, was worse http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif !They "cured " me of everwanting to work in a show barn again. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

[Carol Ames]

Ok, i jusgone back to the beginning of this thread, and.I would agree that this is ridiculous! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif for that price you could find, in the right market a horse who could be zone champion! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[nightsong]

From what the posters who are playing at the level the original poster wants to be at are saying, it's going to take quite a bit o luck to find a horse at the level a.s. wants to be at in her price range. Although the post a little while ago about being the most expensive in a lower-level barn was labeled a joke, it may be an alternative to consider. If you fall between levels OR can't quite make up the price of a particular level, you may HAVE to be at another one. Not the end of the world, and may even be a HUGE help to t he ego!!!

[Carol Ames]

infortunately in a show atmophere, money does make a difference in the ammount of encouragement, support http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif , and, time you get from a trainer, the trainer is looking at, of course cpommissions, as well , as someone who, can support his "habit," horse showing http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif , by paying his fees which can take a lot of money http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif . Where are you located?

[Carol Ames]

ok, let's try a different approach, how about if you asked the the trainer to draw up a "budget" for you ,to show "enough" to warrant his time, and, services. how much would a client need to set aside,in order to afford his "program?" what is an averagebill in this barn ?

[Bumpkin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BarbB:
I know this has been a serious discussion (for the most part) of showing in the big leagues against more expensive, veteran horses.

but........on the lighter side.......

You COULD just move to a really cheap barn where you would have the MOST expensive horse that anyone has ever seen!
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif
If all else fails... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Just consider it http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

***disclaimer for everyone who is now offended.....this was a joke! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif*** <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not offended, but may I add....that usually does not work, because you will find those who have way lesser horses are often vindictive and extremely mean to you and your horse.
Been there tried that.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[yoohoo]

Well the best horse I ever had cost $10,000 and he is incredible. I don't believe anyone needs to spend a stupidly high amonunt of money on a horse. Go with your gut. If it seems too much, it probably is..I'm learning the hard way.

[JumpTheMoon]

It really depends on how far you're willing to travel. If you come to Canada, I'm SURE you could find something well within your price range. The horse who was circuit champion in the A/O's at WEF last year was from Ontario and is now in California doing the Jr Hunters. My trainer currently has two stunning pre-green horses (well, one did baby greens and the other did the high pre-greens) who would be ready to move up to the A/O's by the end of circuit and do very well, and they're both under 90k. He sells lots of horses at WEF each year to top professionals. You're obviously not going to find the up and coming top horse at the top barn for that price but they are definitely out there, especially since you're willing to wait a few months to move up.

[Dancing Lawn]

My MORTGAGE is just under 6 figures.

how about I sell you a very nice hunter prospect for 5 figures.(I have a very nice hunter prospect in the barn!) You get a nice horse, I get to pay off my mortgage, we're both happy. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Ping]

My question is why do you continue to ride with a trainer who treats you this way? Some trainers forget that this is a service industry and that not everyone has an open check book! They live in this little bubble where everyone is super rich and has hundreds of thousands of dollars for board, showing, training, etc. and they can't understand why everyone isn't like that. They actually get mad if you tell them you have other expenses other than horses! I've seen this so often. There are plenty of trainers out there that would be happy to work with you. Find one of them and get rid of the stress! Horses and showing are supposed to be enjoyable. It's amazing how much abuse we put up with from trainers. I especially hate it when they dangle their BNT name in front of you like you'll never make it anywhere else! Life is too short. Find somewhere that makes you happy!

[Weatherford]

Very eloquent post, as always, LH!! And, yes, I haven't been around for a while, so perhaps I am wrong. I do believe one of my horses could stand there with the best in the US at any time. And, my Dublin winner isn't ready for the jumping classes, but would win the hacks anywhere! What mine need is mileage and lots of it. And I don't sell them to the US for two reasons - 1) I seem to be totally INCAPABLE of selling horses - no joke - they all DIE on me before the sale happens... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif 2) I am not sure I could stand to see any horse of mine (and I do love them all) living in the US show circuit environment http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

However, as an example for Alter - the Supreme Hunter Champion at Dublin two years ago - who also had plenty of Eventing and SJ points - sold to the US for a mere E.50,000. Last year's Supreme Champion was a racehorse who didn't make it on the track, so his owner switched his career. Granted, he was a blue blood (very expensive) racehorse, but would have been valueless to his owner before being switched to Hunters. This year's Heavyweight Champion sold for E. 40,000 - a very, very nice horse that will certainly win whereever he goes - he was only a four yr old, too. (was only shown in the 4 yr old Working Hunter Class with .90 to 1.0 m fences - and there is only one jumping class in the division).

These are EXTREMELY nice horses that can win in ANY company. Yes, they might need US show mileage - but that wouldn't take much. Of course, any horse from Ireland who has DONE the WORKING Hunters can't show First Year Green, as they have already been showing the bigger fences...

[AHorseSomeDay]

I am in the same boat. I am 27 year's old and I told my trainer that when the time comes, I can only afford a price range of up to $12,000. When I tell people this, they look at me strange and say there aren't any good horses in that price range. Compared to some people my age whose parents pay for everything, I just can't afford a $15,000+ horse and the prices that the horses are going at is ridiculous! I saw an ad in the paper for a green broke 4 year old for $40,000. Now that's what I call crazy! There are horses out there in an affordable price range who are very nice. It's only a matter of taking the time to look and doing your research. As for being treated differently because you lack the income the others have, I know how you feel. At my old barn, you wern't even paid much attention to if you didn't have the money and this barn isn't an A circuit barn. I also complain. I am so tired of seeing people my age whose parents pay for everything and I get so tired of going to the barn and seeing how much money some people have. It sucks that this sport is geared towards the wealthy people. What about the middle class people? I have been riding for 19 years and I have seen this sport get more and more expensive and the price of the horses keep going up and up. It stinks big time.

[Lord Helpus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
And I don't sell them to the US for two reasons - 1) I seem to be totally INCAPABLE of selling horses - no joke - they all DIE on me before the sale happens... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL Weatherford. I joke that my horses hear the "S" word and they start to limp because they know what a good gig they've got going here and don't want to leave.

Then I saw an episode of The West Wing in which several junior presidential advisors kept referring to the recession. They were told that the "R" word was not used inside the White House. So they asked what should they call it? Josh told them to call it a bagel, if they wanted to, but they could not call an economic downturn a "recession".

So these two poor jr. advisors go in to brief the President and start telling him about the upcoming bagel...

I dunno... Maybe you had to be there. But it cracks me up. So now, I never talk about selling a horse when within hearing of my boys. Instead, we discuss "bageling them". http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>These are EXTREMELY nice horses that can win in ANY company. Yes, they might need US show mileage - but that wouldn't take much. Of course, any horse from Ireland who has DONE the WORKING Hunters can't show First Year Green, as they have already been showing the bigger fences... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I believe they can since they have not shown at a USEF recognized show at 3'6" or higher. That is how all the European horses come over here after showing jumpers in Europe and start off in the first year greens. At least, that's what I was told when I questioned it.

[Dancing Lawn]

Great. So, now I'm in the middle of a bagel. That would be the hole, right? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

[OLD A/O]

Okay, thanks!!! Everyone in the room with me now thinks I have lost it. I am still laughing!!!

Great posts LH and DL!!!!!

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dancing lawn:
Great. So, now I'm in the middle of a bagel. That would be the hole, right? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif I see that your sense of humor is still intact though. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[ILuvDWs]

Wow, that sounds like a decent amount to me! I do jumpers, so I know the prices are different, but I bought a horse for $9k (not very well trained at that point), and I have successfully competed him in the 3'6" divisions, and won many money classes with him. So I don't think you really need to pay a huge amount of money to get a good horse, just keep looking!

[Noodle]

I didn't read all 11 pages of this...

Alter, I don't know how you obtained your money, so either congrats on being successful or congrats on being born into a successful family. Whichever one applies to you. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Who cares how much money someone spends on a horse? If you want to spend $90,000, it's your money. I spent a miniscule fraction of that on my horse, but to me and my family that was a lot of money. And that's how we chose to spend it. I have non-horse friends who are appalled at the amount of money I've spent on horses in the last 10 years. They say, "Do you know what kinda car you could have for that?" If a nice car were that important to me, I would spend money on a car, not a horse. If you have the money, why not spend it? After all, you can't take it with you when you're gone, so enjoy it while you're here.

Alter, as far as your situation with your trainer...just tell him flat out how you feel. Honestly, I think it's the best approach. Forget that he's your trainer, talk to him like you would talk to anyone. If a friend of yours were making you feel bad, what would you do? Probably talk to her (or him) so that you're on the same page. Maybe there's miscommunicating going on here, your trainer could be saying something and you're taking it differently than he means it.

[Zig]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Illyria:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please check your PTs

[I LIKE PONIES!!!]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carol Ames:
I don't really know how this thread started but, let me throw in that, there are horses you can find for under $1,000 who, have the raw talent, and,basic training to do "A shows, they just need a litle "polishing up', ie., stable management, grooming <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


umm yep i TOTALLY have to agree with that... i have a junior at local shows (at "A" shows children's) that we didnt pay much for at all... yea i have had to and still have to put work into him, after the initial getting him fat/shiny etc.. and if i can lay in a trip on him at an "A" show he can win in a lot of company ( at least he can in children's)
alter... i think that ABESOLUTELY uncalled of for your trainer to treat you like that! and more pwer to you if you can afford it! you'vee worked hard and just under 6 figures is a great feat!! grrrr lol now im ranting over your rant... *all done now* :-)

[Weatherford]

Ah, LOVE the bageling!! Great idea - will remember that! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
Actually, I believe they can since they have not shown at a USEF recognized show at 3'6" or higher. That is how all the European horses come over here after showing jumpers in Europe and start off in the first year greens. At least, that's what I was told when I questioned it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, LH, that is wrong (unless they have changed the rules. The problem is verifying the European show record, and when the Fed can do that, the owners/trainer are informed. OK, this was as of three years ago, so it MAY have changed. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[CBoylen]

Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Actually, I believe they can since they have not shown at a USEF recognized show at 3'6" or higher. That is how all the European horses come over here after showing jumpers in Europe and start off in the first year greens. At least, that's what I was told when I questioned it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Per USEF:
A Green Hunter is a horse of any age in its first or second year of showing in any classes
that require horses to jump 3’6” or higher at Regular Competitions or Eventing Competitions
of U.S. Equestrian or Equine Canada or any national or international competition.

[Opening Farewell]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bumpkin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BarbB:
I know this has been a serious discussion (for the most part) of showing in the big leagues against more expensive, veteran horses.

but........on the lighter side.......

You COULD just move to a really cheap barn where you would have the MOST expensive horse that anyone has ever seen!
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif
If all else fails... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Just consider it http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

***disclaimer for everyone who is now offended.....this was a joke! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif*** <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not offended, but may I add....that usually does not work, because you will find those who have way lesser horses are often vindictive and extremely mean to you and your horse.
Been there tried that.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gosh, why would people be mean to someone who moved a horse to their barn just to flaunt him and make everyone feel poor? Poorer people obviously have serious character problems!

[Magnolia]

Haven't read the whole thing, but is this a joke? Can't find a horse for under $100,000? How much more do you need? $110? $125?

What percent of horses really sell for more than that for amateurs to ride? While I know they are probably not rare, are there really barns where all of the horses cost more than that, and nothing cost under?

[findeight]

However....

This original poster did indicate she wants to step right into the A/O ring at WEF in this most competitive of divisions and does not want any kind of project to bring along.
More power to her. That is a valid criteria in selecting a horse and I would LOVE to be able to buy them that way, suspect most others would too.

Unfortunately, in the Younger A/Os, she will be up against the absolute best in the country, including Priceless and Strapless if they compete her. A Finished horse of this caliber, with the conformation and looks to win in this kind of company at this level show IS going to be more then an even hundred grand.

I still don't think the trainer is approaching this the right way if she does not feel like the valued client she is.

[Magnolia]

Findeight -
I think you said what her trainer should tell her - if you want to win with competition like Strapless and Priceless, you will need the extra money. But can one even find a horse like that with a big budget? Are there that many horses like that even out there at any price range?

[findeight]

Well I misread that or, more likely, got sidelined by later interpretations of the OP.

If you are willing to put a bit of time in one, like give it a year in the First years, I would say that you have a more then generous budget with some left over for that pro ride.

I don't buy or sell on these levels but know what some good friends have paid for high quality and competitive animals ready to get right in that ring. Specifics vary but say 50kish for an outstanding Pre Green and 70-90k ought to get you that First Year horse in all but the most rarefied of barns.

And there are even more in the 20k to 50k range that are not as fancy or need a little more work.
The majority of horses at the AA level, unfortunately, DO cost that much.
Like I said earlier, they cost what cars cost and have for as long as I have been showing.
Seem to have gone up at the same rate.

Yeah, you can get lucky with a fixer upper but it takes time, money and alot of luck.

[Magnolia]

I think a lot of us want your problem! If it were me, I'd find a new barn and spend some times in the "lower ranks" until I could afford what I wanted.

I guess your only option is to start saving the extra money it will take. Why not save board and show fees for a while and keep shopping? I'm not sure what your board is or show fees run, but if what I have read here, you could probably bag an extra $50,000 in the next year.

[Magnolia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> posted Oct. 11, 2004 02:09 PM
You don't get it.

I don't *want* to spend more. I think my trainer is being ridiculous (and, since starting this thread, have talked with him about that) to think that I can't find a nice pre-green hunter for that price.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then just be blunt - "Look, I have $99,999 to spend on something that can go compete and win in the pre-greens down at WEF and have a future as a 3'6 ammy owner at the top shows. I need to find the horse now. I will NEVER have the money that X, Y or Z has. Can you help me? Do you want to help me? If you can't help me, can you point me in the direction of someone who can?"

It sounds like you are an accomplished rider, with plenty of experience and I would think you could find someone to work with you, within your parameters ....

[milquetoast]

Thanks.

And we have recently had that talk. It was extremely productive and beneficial.

I will keep you all posted.

[MistyBlue]

Glad to hear your talk with your trainer went well. Best of luck shopping...it's never an easy thing to do. Please keep us updated, I'd love to see your future super-star. I'm sure you'll be able to find something suitable who you click well with. Again, best of luck and enjoy shopping.

[Magnolia]

And maybe we'll see you in the Chronicle with the next Roxdene winning the Pre-Greens at WEF! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Best of luck.

[Ijump2]

Alter ~ I fully understand where you are coming from. While my budget is not quite as generous as yours, I was looking for a horse that could compete some this year (2004) and eventually be competitive in the younger A/O's on the A circuit. I found one who was very green but had the right attitude and quality and he has been doing the pre greens / younger adults. You certainly can find this type of horse in the five figures. I understand you do not want to leave your trainer so what you need to do is sit down with him and explain to him your top priorities in a horse, tell him this is your budget and it is not going to change and that he needs to take these two things into consideration and find a horse that meets these requirements. There might have to be compromises and he needs to recognize that. If you are willing to finish a nice pre green horse you will find there is a good selection out there. Keep in mind that some of the best 3'6" horses are not always great 3' horses. The jumps can be so easy for them they hardly use themselves and might pin below a horse that is trying really hard at that height. You will find the right guy. Try to be patient and keep open communication with your trainer. I wish you the best in your search. Please keep us posted and let us know when you find something.

Magnolia, there are a few barns similar to Alter's fairly close to you (with in a few hours drive). While they are not the norm, they are certainly out there.

[Ijump2]

Alter, Magnolia, and Misty Blue......... you all posted while I was typing so now my response seems redundant. Sorry! Good Luck Alter! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[RugBug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Opening Farewell:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bumpkin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BarbB:
I know this has been a serious discussion (for the most part) of showing in the big leagues against more expensive, veteran horses.

but........on the lighter side.......

You COULD just move to a really cheap barn where you would have the MOST expensive horse that anyone has ever seen!
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif
If all else fails... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Just consider it http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

***disclaimer for everyone who is now offended.....this was a joke! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif*** <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not offended, but may I add....that usually does not work, because you will find those who have way lesser horses are often vindictive and extremely mean to you and your horse.
Been there tried that.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gosh, why would people be mean to someone who moved a horse to their barn just to flaunt him and make everyone feel poor? Poorer people obviously have serious character problems! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, please.

If you have a nice horse and move it into a facility with mediocre horses, you more than likely will experience a bias. People think you're snobby and will judge your actions with that bias. All of sudden a missed "hello" because you were occupied with some other pressing thought becomes missed because you're the rich snob and just too good to say hello to the lowly folks.

It ain't easy having a nice horse amoung not-as-nice ones. (not speaking from experience here lest someone from my barn think I'm saying my horse is nicer than all the ones at our barn. He's nice, but not that nice. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

[findeight]

Rug Bug are you ever right.

Back when I kept in more of a backyard and small barn atmosphere I learned the absolute best way to make enemies was to win.
Yep, same old you except for that blue ribbon you got over the weekend.

Actually once happened in a large boarding facility too. It was great when I went off to show every weekend...till they found out I was winning via an article in the local paper.."local woman wins at Stock Show" with a pretty picture of my pretty paint.
Yikes, you'd think I was about to be voted off for back stabbing.

Sure tells you who your real friends are.

[Ijump2]

gosh findeight...... how dare you win when you obviously work hard and have a nice horse. People are so shallow sometimes, I find it truly amazing. Like one woman I know telling another lady that her daughter was a terrible rider (she is actually a pretty good little kid). Why would you do that to someone? Are you that threatened by a 13 year old? I don't get it.

[Ben and Me]

Maybe the reason Alter can afford a $90,000 horse is the same reason she doesn't have TIME to bring along a greenie?

[Lord Helpus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ben & Me:
Maybe the reason Alter can afford a $90,000 horse is the same reason she doesn't have TIME to bring along a greenie? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhhh, Ben & Me,

You have put your finger on one of the cruel ironies of life. When I was an attorney with a large California law firm, I had plenty of money to ride on the circuit. But, alas, no time to do it.

Now I have plenty of time of bring along fancy young horses who (hopefully) will be competitive at the top level, but I don't have the money to campaign them there.

Life's a beach.

[findeight]

However, you can lie on that beach and soak up the sun.

Or you can adopt the "life's a bitch and then you die" theory of living.

See you under the umbrella with a Mai Tai http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[GetMorganizedKC]

ok Im going to college in 2 years and I currently have a pony but Im hoping to get a horse that can at least go to a few A's while Im in college just for me to gain experiense what's the cheapest I can get and not be laughed out of the ring?

[How Bout No (Karrie)]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GetMorganizedKC:
ok Im going to college in 2 years and I currently have a pony but Im hoping to get a horse that can at least go to a few A's while Im in college just for me to gain experiense what's the cheapest I can get and not be laughed out of the ring? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just dont tell people how much you paid for the horse http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[GetMorganizedKC]

lol ok but can I find one for like $2,500 I dont want to win or even place that well I just want to learn what showing in the As is like i currently just do local schooling type shows cuz I can afford to do the As nor do i have the horse for it

[findeight]

OK guys.. the AA rateds are tough anywhere and can be triple that in a competitive zone regardless of division.

You have to have a horse with the conformation to allow it to at least halfway round over a jump and have enough step to get the lines...and in the AA rateds in the 3' Adults you can have combos like an vertical/oxer/oxer (both oxers 36" wide as they are tall) at a 36' 2 stride in and a 24' one stride out- regardless of the striding debate, you CAN NOT add in something like this.
Has to be a good enough mover that it can get the changes without a fight.

You just are not going to find a horse like this for 2500 in some backyard that you can show tomorrow.
Yes you may be able to make it over time with a 2500 horse but you'll need a ton of money, training and luck. Plus, if it has the conformation for a nice jump? Somebody will have snapped it up way ahead of you.

Now you CAN show in the 2'6" at rated shows in most areas, and you can get away with less talent and time spent plus less of a horse...but there are those that spend mid 5 figures just for that 2'6" er and others are on their way down after amazing careers...and that applies to both aging horses and riders in their late 50s and up.

For every 2500 dollar miracle at the AA rateds there are about a thousand failures.

Sorry but that is the truth.

[Ijump2]

Guys, findeight is telling it like it is. Sorry, but that is the truth of the AA world. Not only does the horse have to have the conformation to jump well but it has to have the right mind to survive in the horse show environment and that combination is hard to find.

As crazy as this thread may sound to some people it is really not out of line for a quality pre green moving up to 1st year horse. I think we need to remember that Alter is not looking for help finding the horse but rather is looking for assistance with communicating with her trainer. I think we all face difficulty on some level when it comes to conveying to our trainer our needs and wants and our budget. I know I do. Regardless of our different financial situations we can all help or learn from this thread.

[findeight]

AA level is like the NASCAR races, yes you have a Dodge, or whatever, too- but it's not the same car any more then a successful AA horse is like one in any backyard nor is the Dale Jr equvalent riding it.

There's tons of great showing in the breed venues or regional/local shows that do not require that kind of horsepower.

Honestly evaluate the quality of your horse and your riding/ your budget and your overall goals in picking shows. Whether you chose the AA or a nice local in a pretty spot, you ought to be there to enjoy the gift our horses give us and have fun.
For this OP it's WEF in February, for others it's a nearby meadow in July. No matter, just pick a level you can enjoy and then ENJOY IT.

[fourmares]

I bought a mare for $2,500 one July, green QH off the track. I was showing her 3'6" in December. I wasn't a regular on the A circuit, but did 4 or 5 shows a year. My mare was regularly in the ribbons O/F and won almost every hack she went in, including Pebble Beach... I also rode a mustang in the A/A jumpers, he cost $125! We had a kid at my barn that had a pony her dad paid $25 (no I didn't leave off any zeros), she was regularly in the ribbons in the A shows and usually won at the B and C shows... I have a boarder here that bought a 4yo OTTB for 5,000. He's easily fancy enough, good minded enough and talented enough for the A/Os. They are on the slow track, because his owner was actually in a walker when she bought him (serious injury from a car accident), but he'll get there in a year or two, and be one of those that will pack. I realize that non of these situations was WEC, but none of these horses cost more than the low 4 figures... They are out there.

[Ijump2]

fourmares, again I do not think the OP needs help finding a horse...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I think we need to remember that Alter is not looking for help finding the horse but rather is looking for assistance with communicating with her trainer. I think we all face difficulty on some level when it comes to conveying to our trainer our needs and wants and our budget. I know I do. Regardless of our different financial situations we can all help or learn from this thread. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[slainte!]

Alter - I sympathize with you.

I am a barn manager at an AA Barn with a semi BNT. From my point of view, it seems that all these trainers decide the type of operation they want to run. And truthfully, everyone is just trying to make a buck, and the trainers know the more money the animal cost, the bigger commissions, the bigger wins, the better popularity down at WEF!

But, most trainers are pretty darn loyal to their loyal clients. If you've been with this trainer for a substantial amount of time, have gone through this trainer before for big money horses, then this trainer SHOULD be willing to sit down with you and discuss your budget.

I see all this behind the scenes stuff constantly at work. If you're good to him, he'll be good to you. Make an appointment with this trainer to sit down and talk the reality of your situation.... Sure, the BNT won't be thrilled, but they need to understand that a young girl in her 20's just making it for herself in a career doesn't have millions to spend on their first "out of college horse".

Hope i didnt repeat too much that's already been covered!

[findeight]

Of course they are trying to make a buck...that's how they make their living and why they are called professionals.

[AHorseSomeDay]

I leased a Polo Pony/TB cross mare who was 14.3 hands. The owner bought her for $2,500 and she jumped like a gazelle and she was the nicest mover. She won a lot in the hack. The first show that we went to was an A show and she won every class and was champion. Not bad for a $2500 14.3 hand mare. I did the adult hunters with her and we pinned really well against the larger warmbloods, etc. She was the smallest horse in the class but that didn't stop us. My point is that it's not always the most expensive horse who wins. People just have to look and do their research.

[fourmares]

I think that part of the problem is that BNTs socialize with other BNT and don't have any contacts with the small time trainers who might have nice horses in their barns for sale. Because the horses are not showing at the big shows and are not being shown by BNTs their prices will naturally be lower, even though they might be super nice.

[Weatherford]

he he, LH...

Let me give you an example. Rider comes to Ireland to visit me and buy horse. In her 20's, she has been riding forever, but isn't brave at all nor that good. She has got a solid seat and leg, despite what she thinks - which was a nice surprise for me.

I showed her a few horses - one was SOOOO quiet no one at its barn like to ride it (remember - this is Ireland! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif ) and she was so scared, I barely got her to canter and "jump" (trot over) a rail on the ground & 6" off the ground.

The last horse we saw was a big gray - 18 hands or so, but not TOO big in the body. Crooked legs (don't look) (never seen a professional blacksmith - owner does him himself). Horse has over 160 show jumping points - is now too high a grade for the owner to stay on (owner being only 5'5 and square) over the fences - so he now shows him in the Irish amateurs (1,10-1,20). Horse canters around courses like an US hunter, does his changes, leaves the fences up and wins a lot... Girl can barely touch his withers... gets on him - goes off down the road - nearly has a car run into her (horse flicked ears), goes into open field, walks trots, canters, and gallops (!!) has a great time - is radiant, comes back to the "ring" jumps one fence which is eventually around 3'9" (kid hasn't jumped in at least 8 years.) Kid is BEAMING - horse obviously loffs her, what a match! He is well below her budget INCLUDING shipping and vetting... He is actually cheap by US standards. Perfect match.

She gets home, and her trainer says no dice - and will not let her buy. (Very SNT - like, local)... Now, I think she should pay for the trainer to come over, look at the horse and offer her 20% commission - but, you know? THAT WILL STILL BE LESS than what the trainer will make on one of her "own finds" - which of course, will be RIGHT at the TOP of the kid's budget...

It simply is NOT right!!! Where else are you going to find a horse that is big, capable of doing at least the smaller GP's, a fancy enough jumper to do the hunters (though, NOT the hack!!), easy enough for the Eq, and kind enough to cart a NOVice over 3'9"?? (and quiet enough that we took him out of his stall and threw her on! And his only turnout is on a rope on the lawn tied to the owner's front door...) for less than $20,000??? ((And the owner says, no dealers and vets the potential clients to make sure the horse goes to a good home...))

Trainers who do NOT have the best interests of their clients at heart need to be drawn and quartered!

And, if this continues, SOMEONE is going to start requesting regulation in our industry - as there is in the Real Estate industry (something I think would be a good idea...)

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[CluesGirl]

Weatherford -
seriously wishing I even had $20K right now to bring that boy over!! I'd have to bet he would make a solid eventer, no?? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Are you saying create the "MLS" and "FHA" programs for equine sales? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Good idea!
Ethics and honesty!

[Lord Helpus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
It simply is NOT right!!! Where else are you going to find a horse that is big, capable of doing at least the smaller GP's, a fancy enough jumper to do the hunters (though, NOT the hack!!), easy enough for the Eq, and kind enough to cart a NOVice over 3'9"?? (and quiet enough that we took him out of his stall and threw her on! And his only turnout is on a rope on the lawn tied to the owner's front door...) for less than $20,000??? ((And the owner says, no dealers and vets the potential clients to make sure the horse goes to a good home...))
( <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Weatherford,

If he is everything you say he is, why don't you buy him and import him and make mucho moolah?

I am not saying this as a challenge, but in all sincerity. You are in a good position to find horses like this -- truly diamonds in the rough. It sounds like this horse would go for $25k as a fox hunter the day he stepped off the plane or $50,000 - $75,000 in 6 months as an A/O jumper.

Someone is going to make money on this horse. Why not you?

[Magnolia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> AA level is like the NASCAR races, yes you have a Dodge, or whatever, too- but it's not the same car any more then a successful AA horse is like one in any backyard nor is the Dale Jr equvalent riding it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Never thought I'd see that analogy!

[MIKES MCS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
It simply is NOT right!!! Where else are you going to find a horse that is big, capable of doing at least the smaller GP's, a fancy enough jumper to do the hunters (though, NOT the hack!!), easy enough for the Eq, and kind enough to cart a NOVice over 3'9"?? (and quiet enough that we took him out of his stall and threw her on! And his only turnout is on a rope on the lawn tied to the owner's front door...) for less than $20,000??? ((And the owner says, no dealers and vets the potential clients to make sure the horse goes to a good home...))
( <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Weatherford,

If he is everything you say he is, why don't you buy him and import him and make mucho moolah?

I am not saying this as a challenge, but in all sincerity. You are in a good position to find horses like this -- truly diamonds in the rough. It sounds like this horse would go for $25k as a fox hunter the day he stepped off the plane or $50,000 - $75,000 in 6 months as an A/O jumper.

Someone is going to make money on this horse. Why not you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only way that would happen is if she put it in the hands of a BNT,paid board , training and show expenses for 6 months, Then the horse would sell for $150,000.00 and she would probably get about $25,000.00, it might only cost her $50,000 in order to lose $25,000.00

[Jodes, Aefvue Farms Bartender]

I can't believe this thread is still going.... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[Harley84]

Come to Canada LOL you can take 5 home for that much money and they will all be nice

[Tory Relic]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magnolia:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> AA level is like the NASCAR races, yes you have a Dodge, or whatever, too- but it's not the same car any more then a successful AA horse is like one in any backyard nor is the Dale Jr equvalent riding it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Never thought I'd see that analogy! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The funny thing is, I was reading this thread, telling my husband some of it (ranting about people telling the OP they shouldn't spend that kind of money on a horse, or should use it to save PMU babies and whatnot) and HE made that same analogy! I didn't know he understood the differences in showing levels so well.

[GetMorganizedKC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GetMorganizedKC:
lol ok but can I find one for like $2,500 I dont want to win or even place that well I just want to learn what showing in the As is like i currently just do local schooling type shows cuz I can afford to do the As nor do i have the horse for it <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I wouldnt be planning on having a horse that would win or even place just one that can get around the coarse with out looking totally out of place so i can get some experience and maybe be able to do the eq.s with it

[winter]

Actually I think looking out of state could be great for you...
Some horses to be had in Canada, don't know if they would even suit what you are looking for, but this young stallion, although looking a little weird in the photo is a dream to ride, a beautifull mover, and has won some dressage as well...
pax (http://www.mjfarm.com/pax.htm)
here is another (http://www.canadianwarmbloods.com/salehorses/Duparre.html)
another (http://www.canadianwarmbloods.com/salehorses/ebon.html)

I guess that shopping away though could really ruin your relationship with the trainer? Also you have to decide how bad you want this horse now, or how long you'd be willing to wait to move into the AO if you got a prospect.

[GetMorganizedKC]

Well i currently dont have a trainer but if I did I wouldnt run them through the buying of my horse because they would probably want money for that I think theres a term for it but its not coming to me and paying a trainer to help u buy your horse is monry that could go toward a horse, I dont plan to do the A/O, Im hoping to go to VI and major in equine science and I want to be a trainer/instructor when I get out. So unless i can do A/O in college I dont need a horse that A/O quality I still have two years before college so I probably wont get a horse til then or maybe not until I get out because I might not be able to afford one while in school

[whosyourdaddy]

Get M,

Not to be harsh, but two things come to mind:

1. Your posts are awfully hard to read. I assume that you are young but that is no excuse for poor grammar, spelling or punctuation. Unless you are Ernest Hemingway I would prefer to see punctuation in your sentences and capital letters. Trust me - it will help convey your point a heck of a lot better and will generate the kind of respect that you need to have people take you seriously at all points in your life. Correct usage of the English language is your friend.

2. There is no barrier to doing the A shows regardless of how nice your horse may or may not be, but if you look at the costs and cannot spend more than $2500 to buy a horse I think you are going to find the entry fees for AAA shows prohibitive. For an big away A show figure $1000 per horse per week in expenses.

[Pocket Pony]

whosyourdaddy, when I did the A shows, it was more like $2k for one show...and that was one horse, two divisions.

[Weatherford]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
It simply is NOT right!!! Where else are you going to find a horse that is big, capable of doing at least the smaller GP's, a fancy enough jumper to do the hunters (though, NOT the hack!!), easy enough for the Eq, and kind enough to cart a NOVice over 3'9"?? (and quiet enough that we took him out of his stall and threw her on! And his only turnout is on a rope on the lawn tied to the owner's front door...) for less than $20,000??? ((And the owner says, no dealers and vets the potential clients to make sure the horse goes to a good home...))
( <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Weatherford,

If he is everything you say he is, why don't you buy him and import him and make mucho moolah?

I am not saying this as a challenge, but in all sincerity. You are in a good position to find horses like this -- truly diamonds in the rough. It sounds like this horse would go for $25k as a fox hunter the day he stepped off the plane or $50,000 - $75,000 in 6 months as an A/O jumper.

Someone is going to make money on this horse. Why not you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two reasons, LH -

1) No Working Capital - spent it all on horses that are having a lovely time eating. Seriously, if I had the money, I would buy him an play in the FEI Masters' Division!

2) The notorius "SELL" word... that we replaced with another word. Guarenteed, ANY horse that I buy for "resale" dies on me. No joke!!

I wasn't cut out for this business. But, I sure wouldn't mind having a varn full of nice horses that could teach people for me.... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif