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EasyStreet
Feb. 11, 2011, 04:27 PM
As if the perfect half halt weren't elusive enough, having to forfill all the prerequisits to have them "through and effective and with the precissioned timing they seem to demand, I am not clear in the understanding as to whether or not the H/H is ALWAYS preformed on the outside rein??? If not what would be some examples of what movement/excercise that you would be doing where h/h on the inside rein would be called foe?? Is there EVER a curcumstance that you would h/h both reins at once? Thanks in advance for clerifying this for me!

alibi_18
Feb. 11, 2011, 06:25 PM
I can answer for the 'both hands' halfhalt.

It can happen when you need to f*}>#* stop the damn wild beast! It is usually more effective than just pulling.

Half halt on the outside (or both) rein are commonly used to slow down, and of course rebalanced the horse to put his weight underneath, and the ones on the inside ride would act more as a way to ask for more loosening in the jaw and some lateral flexions at the poll...but I'm not sure if I would consider it as a half halt per say.

Fantastic
Feb. 11, 2011, 06:36 PM
Outside rein regulates: speed, length of neck, moves shoulder over, amount of bend

Inside rein regulates: bend and flexion



examples of what movement/excercise that you would be doing where h/h on the inside rein would be called foe??

Movements you would not (foe) typically HH on inside rein (some of this depends on the horse and how he is trained):

-Shoulder Fore
-Shoulder In
-Half Pass
-Pirouette
-Tempi Changes

Movement you might (friend) HH on inside rein (some of this depends on the horse and how he is trained):

-Haunches In
-Piaffe
-Passage
-Tempi Changes




[/QUOTE]
Is there EVER a curcumstance that you would h/h both reins at once? [/QUOTE]

-Extended Canter to Collected Canter
-Piaffe
-Passage
-Tempi Changes

Petstorejunkie
Feb. 11, 2011, 06:50 PM
As if the perfect half halt weren't elusive enough, ....I am not clear in the understanding as to whether or not the H/H is ALWAYS preformed on the outside rein???
I think to gain a more understanding perspective you must first understand that in regards to the HH there are no absolutes. Read how to perform a HH from 7 different masters and you will get 7 different responses.
For instance, my horse has several distinct different HH I use with him that he guided me to.
Rebalancing
Swelling
Retarding
Listen Closer

Each of these are unique to HIM.
For instance, his Swelling HH (a building and bottling of energy to redirect at my release of the HH) engages my lats and a visualization of gathering his ribcage with my leg. My trainer calls this "sucking the horse up with your {girly parts}"

But to the big 17h ex hunter I'm retraining for dressage, his Swelling HH is almost like a clutch. I close my outside rein fingers, swell with my legs just as I do on my horse, and release the "clutch" (my fingers) slowly to ooze into an upward transition with balance and fluidity. You do that on my horse he just gets cranky and throws a hip in.

The more bodily aware you become the more demystified the HH will be for you. If you are executing someone else's description for the HH and it's not working, try another's description.

joiedevie99
Feb. 11, 2011, 06:51 PM
Just depends on the horse. I use a two-rein half halt for extended to collected trot and piaffe. I rarely half halt off the inside rein alone.

My half halts for most trot movements (SI, HI, HP, corners) are seat and leg only, no reins at all. My half halts for most canter movements use outside rein, but they aren't all the same. Some resist, some squeeze momentarily, some hold for a stride, some come from my shoulder...

Fantastic
Feb. 11, 2011, 07:00 PM
Ah yes, and then we have the reinless HH's (thanks for the reminder, joiedevie99).

I call these "body HH's". The are really more seat and core HH's. I use them to rock a horse back onto it's hind legs (example - extended to collected canter) into collection (collected canter, pirouette canter, or sometimes into pirouette).

I use more of an upwards lifting body HH to lift piaffe and passage to catch more air time.

merrygoround
Feb. 11, 2011, 07:49 PM
Ah yes, and then we have the reinless HH's (thanks for the reminder, joiedevie99).

I call these "body HH's". The are really more seat and core HH's. I use them to rock a horse back onto it's hind legs (example - extended to collected canter) into collection (collected canter, pirouette canter, or sometimes into pirouette).

I use more of an upwards lifting body HH to lift piaffe and passage to catch more air time.

Good response!

However, there are times in a career, both equine and human, when the HH doesn't "happen". Then, a sharp two handed reminder is called for. However the reminder must cease immediately when the response comes. Then a HH should then be asked for and received "or else". Seldom does it require a repetition.

However, the rider must be sure that they initiated the request properly, from the body first. And like anything in riding, the correct request should always be given in the correct way at all times. No time off because we're out on the trail, or just warming up, etc.

Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl
Feb. 11, 2011, 09:21 PM
I have a student who I was teaching the "Ride your hips through your elbows to her ears" concept to who now calls them "butt half halts." This makes me smile every time, and it makes her horse smile as she has gotten so much less handsy.

I don't much think about one rein or the other for half halts, generally. For flexion, or lining up the shoulders, yes. But for shifting weight to the hind end/rebalancing, I think more of a moment of asking the butt to catch up to the front end, and then all continue on together.

Elatu
Feb. 11, 2011, 11:14 PM
Food for thought:
If the "half-halt"is used for 4 different purposes: (as stated in the Equine Canada Dressage Coaching Manual)
1. Attention
2. Collection
3. Correction
4. Transition

Then how can the same aid be applied for all 4 purposes?
It therefore makes the half-halt term quite ambiguous.
I NEVER use the term half-halt when I teach.

alibi_18
Feb. 12, 2011, 08:43 AM
Food for thought:
If the "half-halt"is used for 4 different purposes: (as stated in the Equine Canada Dressage Coaching Manual)
1. Attention
2. Collection
3. Correction
4. Transition

Then how can the same aid be applied for all 4 purposes?
It therefore makes the half-halt term quite ambiguous.
I NEVER use the term half-halt when I teach.

What terms do you use then?
Never heard of someone NOT teaching what is half halting and I've been in Canada, Usa and Europe...never had problem feeling what it meant for which ever 'correction'or 'demand' I was asking (or my trainer) for.

cyberbay
Feb. 12, 2011, 09:06 AM
IMO, a half-halt can't be truly performed if the horse is not 'through.' A lot of horses are not through -- just look at all the poor-going horses in competition, or the incorrect muscling. Through is not that easy to get to, and is complicated by older, more set musculature, low training, insidious unsoundness. You name it.

Maybe I'm out of it, but you can half-halt using the rein that positions the horse onto that hind leg.

When I hear a instructor telling a student who is clearly no more than a novice rider to 'do a half-halt,' I cringe. Pulling on the rein to slow down is not a half-halt. It's pulling on the rein to slow down. Nothing wrong with that, but don't call it a half-halt.

A half-halt is to deepen the connection over the topline by creating more impulsion, then gathering it, via the rein and core. Now, the horse is prepped to go to a new movement or direction by the horse.

For Elatu, maybe that's a potential answer to your post, if you were asking philosophically, that would get the horse's attention or allow you to collect the stride; or help the horse re-establish the balance he's able to handle at his level of training; or head into a transition.

cyberbay
Feb. 12, 2011, 09:06 AM
This post is kinda all over the place...

IMO, a half-halt can't be truly performed if the horse is not 'through.' A lot of horses are not through -- just look at all the poor-going horses in competition, or the incorrect muscling. Through is not that easy to get to, and is complicated by older, more set musculature, low training, insidious unsoundness. You name it.

To answer the thread, maybe I'm out of it, but you can half-halt using the rein that positions the horse onto that hind leg.

When I hear a instructor telling a student who is clearly no more than a novice rider to 'do a half-halt,' I cringe. Pulling on the rein to slow down is not a half-halt. It's pulling on the rein to slow down. Nothing wrong with that, but don't call it a half-halt.

A half-halt is to deepen the connection over the topline by creating more impulsion, then gathering it, via the rein and core. Now, the horse is prepped to go to a new movement or direction by the horse.

For Elatu, maybe that's a potential answer to your post, if you were asking philosophically, that would get the horse's attention or allow you to collect the stride; or help the horse re-establish the balance he's able to handle at his level of training; or head into a transition.

Petstorejunkie
Feb. 12, 2011, 09:26 AM
Rebalancing-Correction
Swelling-Collection
Retarding-Transition
Listen Closer-Attention

Elatu,
:lol: I didn't know there were "official" names for all these! Do you have a link to the page on half halts? Now you've peaked my interest. May save me more time philosophizing

I'm in total agreement with you, I never use the term HH in a lesson... mostly because riders seem to think that means "pull release" on the reins.

EasyStreet
Feb. 12, 2011, 10:00 AM
Wow, Thank you all for your input and alot to think about!! I will make sure I keep this post to refer back to as I progress as I clearly am not ready for most of these applications! ;)

merrygoround
Feb. 12, 2011, 01:03 PM
Food for thought:
If the "half-halt"is used for 4 different purposes: (as stated in the Equine Canada Dressage Coaching Manual)
1. Attention
2. Collection
3. Correction
4. Transition

Then how can the same aid be applied for all 4 purposes?
It therefore makes the half-halt term quite ambiguous.
I NEVER use the term half-halt when I teach.


Either you do not understand the half halt, or the basic principles behind it, or both!!!!

One half halts to get the horse's attention.
One half halts to attain collection, and half halts again,and again.(as RD says you ride from half halt to half halt)
One gives a strong half halt sometimes for correcting a problem.
One half halts before all transitions.

The best teacher of the half halt is a horse that understands the half halt, with the student on the longe with no reins. :lol: :lol:

vbunny
Feb. 12, 2011, 06:37 PM
I like to use the term rebalance for students struggling with the concept, as in "rebalance before your turn, coming out of your turn, before your transition, and get his attention, blah, blah". Takes the fear out of it that "half-halt" seams to bring.

J-Lu
Feb. 12, 2011, 08:57 PM
In my opinion, the half-halt always comes from the core (your abdomen and seat). In theory, it should always be received by the outside rein because in theory, while going in the oval that is a dressage ring, there is always an outside rein. Technically, counter-canter would require half-halting on what is "technically" the inside rein (it is the rein on the inside of the oval) but in actuality is the outside rein because you are counter-cantering.

Tempi changes switch "outside" reins every "X" steps, but the movement still utilized the concept of the "outside rein" in the half-halts required to perform this movement. That said, aids can change from inside leg to outside rein (diagonal aids) to outside leg to outside rein (parallel aids) to achieve tempis. Different riders approach things differently.

I can envision circumstances that you might half-halt on both reins. It's not ideal but the goal is to direct the balance of the horse, and at the end of the day, good riders do what is necessary at that moment to achieve the desired balance. It's a dynamic process.

J.



As if the perfect half halt weren't elusive enough, having to forfill all the prerequisits to have them "through and effective and with the precissioned timing they seem to demand, I am not clear in the understanding as to whether or not the H/H is ALWAYS preformed on the outside rein??? If not what would be some examples of what movement/excercise that you would be doing where h/h on the inside rein would be called foe?? Is there EVER a curcumstance that you would h/h both reins at once? Thanks in advance for clerifying this for me!

Elatu
Feb. 12, 2011, 09:57 PM
Ok, now since I've posted I've seen different aids mentioned of what a half-halt is. Is it inside rein, outside rein, sitting up, lowering your seat, more leg, or a limitless combination of the above..........do you get my point? If the half-halt has 4 purposes, then how can ONE aid support all 4?
I like the explanation of the aids to be more specific to the rider of what to do to get the correct reaction of the horse from the riders' specific aids. Not just one term used for different levels/reasons of correcting the horse, and the amount of volume that you have to apply to the correcting aid.
If you ride from half-halt to half-halt then what do you do in between the movements??? Nothing?
The 4 purposes of the Half-Halt are in the EC Level 3 Dressage Coaching Manual. I have mine around somewhere. If I find it, I will post it.
I guess teaching for 32 years, and training 8 horses to FEI level gives me at least some credibility in dressage.

J-Lu
Feb. 13, 2011, 02:28 AM
Oh boy.

Well, Elatu, I see the same half halt as functioning in each of the situations you listed. However, I'd argue that correction is based on what is actually happening and is perhaps the most flexible of the points you've raised.

Attention, collection and transition all require a shift of the balance to the hind end. THus, a half-halt, which shifts balance to the hind end, is appropriate for all three of these things. Do you see this differently?

What do I do in between half-halts? I ride. I direct the horse. I direct the movement. I place the forehand and place the hind end. When the horse moves towards the forehand, I half-halt. Upper level tests simply cannot be performed without frequent half-halts that balance the horse on the hind end. That said, constant half-halting is not necessary. Half-halting while a horse is actually carrying himself/herself is just counter-productive.

J.