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claire
Feb. 10, 2011, 12:13 AM
Wonderful interview.

Edward Gal and Hans Peter Minderhoud reflect on losing a horse of a lifetime and moving on with life.

(sorry for the rough translation)


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"That wow feeling I never get back"


The first confrontation with Totilas is getting closer. Edward Gal wonders. The horse will recognize him. And then what follows? In May is the day.

The invitation from the new owner to look at Totilas in Germany to come and look, he hit just politely decline. "Not just yet," said Edward Gal , in late October last year forced to leave of his dressage horse.

There will be something else, "says his three years younger partner Hans Peter Minderhoud.

Gal faint smile. A nod. "But that 'wow' feeling I never get back. The band with Totilas was so special. Not only a top horse, but also very sweet and touching. Always that cheerful glance. "

Two weeks after the World Equestrian Games, the stud was picked up at their house in Harskamp.
"I consciously stayed home that night," says Gal. "I could just not there. I've been watching television, taken a sleeping pill and I went to bed on time. "
Hans Peter went "My grief was less than Edward. He had ties with Totilas. He had always ridden. Everything with it. "

Minderhoud saw that night that the horse quickly noticed that something was going to happen. "Normally, he was never here at night so packed. Then came again that strange truck drove up the field ... "

That was three months ago. Since only one month is back for another horse in the stable of Totilas. Gal Minderhoud and have picked up the thread.
Both dressage riders lead their own business in Harskamp, where they part of a great riding bike. The horse world is their life. Every day is a workday. "We have seven men in service. We have trucks to transport the horses. The rent. It all paid.
Therefore we teach here every day", says Gal.
Minderhoud: "Also because we have many weekends away for competition. Around the world we clinics. You have to make money and this is it. Now we are at the top. We are in great demand. But Monday morning you're at it again eight hours on your first horse that day. When we come home we have to wait seven horses who have not ridden that weekend. Life goes well once through"

They are seasoned dressage. Gal: "A horse should especially like to work. They have loop looped .
You get everything they learned, but in the ring they want to do it for you. A mare and a stallion are often two of them a gelding. A gelding is often more uniform. A mare and a stallion always have one day of sitting between: not now.

"Either can be intense desire to leave. "A hot country and doing nothing, enjoy Gal. "Then we do not really riding on the beach."

That they are competitors in dressage, their relationship is not in the road.
"Would be strange if you do not award another success" says Minderhoud.
Outside it's no contest ", says Gal. When his sponsor three years ago Totilas came up, there was therefore no jealousy Hans Peter: "If Edward was away one day, I drove Totilas. When he hesitated for a workout, I looked at once.

Sometimes it feels not so, but it looks very nice. "Here, the ideal coach. Minderhoud smilingly shook his head. Edward is really very stubborn, and I would always love my way now. "

Eight years ago he started for himself with two stallions: Painted Black and Rubel. The first was sold to Anky van Grunsven.
"That's when he broke out into another meadow saw a mare with a foal. Rubel slid into a ditch and broke a leg. We have him put to sleep. I am a long time been really devastated, "says Minderhoud.

Both want to get this year the country team, which already qualified for the 2012 Olympics.
"We do everything for us to qualify for the team," says Gal.
This will be done in tests of Totilas with his new rider Matthias Alexander Rath will also start appearing. "Sometime in May we will meet for the first time against"
"At that time, Totilas really accustomed to his new surroundings. But when he hears my voice, he will recognize me? Will he-neigh? "

A brief break .. "He gets on me a big hug anyway. Yet I would have preferred him to an Arab in a far away land was sold. Now I had the next four years still regularly encounter. "

Foxtrot's
Feb. 10, 2011, 12:31 AM
Of course he will remember Edward and he will show it in his own way, perhaps a nose shove in the chest. Horses do not forget anything.

Peace
Feb. 10, 2011, 07:50 AM
Can anyone say anthropomorphism. It is touching how much he loved him but I think people tend to put human emotions on to their horses.

alibi_18
Feb. 10, 2011, 08:34 AM
I think Edward is more than allowed to have a little anthropomorphism moment here....Who wouldn't after all this?!? Come on...

It is quite a sad story and yes, after seeing Matthias riding the horse, the WoW factor is a bit lost...I prefered Gal and Toto, they had such a great bond.

Can't wait to see him perform with another horse!

red mares
Feb. 10, 2011, 09:26 AM
Can anyone say anthropomorphism. It is touching how much he loved him but I think people tend to put human emotions on to their horses.

No Doubt! Almost bordered on creepy to me, kind of like walking through the dog clothes aisle at PetSmart.

Petstorejunkie
Feb. 10, 2011, 09:44 AM
Can anyone say anthropomorphism. It is touching how much he loved him but I think people tend to put human emotions on to their horses.
Right, because humans are the only species capable of having emotions, or remembering others... yeah :uhoh:

From The Horse.com
Research Sheds Light on Equine Long-Term Memory
by: Christa Lesté-Lasserre
February 20 2009, Article # 13642
Print Article Print Email Article Email Add to my Favorites Add to Favorites ShareThis

Remember back when that umbrella popped open and spooked your horse? That might have been five or even 10 years ago, but new research into equine long-term memory (LTM) shows that your horse probably remembers those events just as well as you do.

In a study led by Evelyn Hanggi, MS, PhD, co-director at the Equine Research Foundation (ERF) in Aptos, Calif., horses that had been tested on recognition and advanced learning abilities as many as 10 years earlier were able to repeat the same tasks with a nearly perfect level of accuracy without having to learn the skills again. Not only were the horses able to remember the specific objects learned years ago, they were able to apply those previously learned rules and concepts to never-before-seen objects years later. As the horses had not been exposed to these tests since the time the previous research was completed in 1997, 2000, and 2001, Hanggi concluded that horses have a remarkable capacity for LTM.

Horse in long-term memory trial

A horse indicates the larger of two images.
"Over the years at the ERF, we observed how easily all of our horses recalled certain aspects of our research procedures, such as how to operate the testing apparatus and station," Hanggi said. "We could also stop an experiment and then return to it several months later with no performance loss, and this led us to consider carrying out an LTM study. We were quite excited with the outcome."

In the study, three ERF horses were given three variations of tests in which they had to select between images projected onto an LCD computer screen. The horses were to choose according to criteria established for the previous research on discrimination, categorization, and concept learning carried out six, seven, and 10 years earlier using printed images. "This study also showed that horses are able to perceive images on LCD screens, which had never been previously tested," Hanggi added.

As this initial LTM experiment was limited to only three horses, Hanggi said more research would need to be carried out on a wider scale for conclusions regarding breed or sex differences, if any. "However," she said, "we can now say that excellent LTM is certainly within the capacity of the species."

The study, "Long-term memory for categories and concepts in horses (Equus caballus)," was conducted by Hanggi and Jerry Ingersoll, and was published in the January 2009 edition of Animal Cognition.

meupatdoes
Feb. 10, 2011, 09:48 AM
I don't see where the anthropomorphism comes in.
They are not attaching emotions to Toto, just wondering if he will recognize them. Recognition is not an emotion, nor is it restricted to humans.

The only emotions being discussed are Edward's.
I personally found the article very touching; I can only imagine how much he must love that horse.

Bugs-n-Frodo
Feb. 10, 2011, 11:02 AM
My heart truly breaks for Edward.

claire
Feb. 10, 2011, 11:04 AM
I didn't think that Edward Gal was attaching human emotions to Totilas. He was just talking about his (EG's) feelings after losing his horse of a lifetime.

EG talks about moving on with his life and with other horses, but that the other horses will probably never have the "WOW" factor for him.

I think that anyone who has lost their "heart" horse can totally
relate: You do move on with another horse and new challenges, but there will always be that special one in your heart.

MysticOakRanch
Feb. 10, 2011, 11:17 AM
Horses do recognize and remember their people. I think recognition and acceptance of a person as part of their "herd" is very reasonable! Just as an example - I sold a 3 year old I'd bred. It has been 3 years now - I see him maybe once or twice annually, and he still nickers to me the minute I call his name in our "special voice" - he doesn't do that to other people. I don't think Gal is being silly, I think he and Toto had a definate bonding and partnership. A very special one - I miss seeing them together...

jumpsnake
Feb. 10, 2011, 11:30 AM
About a year and a half ago I started riding a horse no one else really liked much. I bonded with the horse, which was dumb of me because I knew he was for sale. He did get sold, but after about 2-3 months it didn't work out and he came back. He whinnied at me when he saw me come into the barn. I was completely floored and almost brought to tears, as I didn't realize he was back until he whinnied.

After about two months he was sold into a more appropriate home, where he remains.

My point is that absolutely horses can recognize their people. Gal I'm sure knew the risks involved with riding a horse owned by another, but it is still hard to not give of your heart. I feel bad for him but there is nothing to be done about it, unless COTH collectively wins the lottery and buys Toto back for him.

lesson junkie
Feb. 10, 2011, 12:08 PM
It is so heartwarming to see a world class professional rider fall as hard in love with a horse as any of the rest of us.

Years ago, I was warming up for a lesson on a horse who had been off the track about 18 months. One end of the arena was next to an apple orchard. As we approached that end, you could hear the workers speaking to each other in Spanish.

My guy dragged me to the rail, chested up against it, and with his head and neck craned out as far as he could go, he whinnied his heart out! A few seconds of listening convinced him that his person wasn't there, and he never acted like that again.

I was sorry he still missed his groom so, but was glad to learn that he must have been well loved.

oldenmare
Feb. 10, 2011, 12:21 PM
I've had my mare for 10 years now - and it had been over 10 years since she had last seen the girl who used to lease her back in the late 90s.

Mare still recognized girl in under 10 seconds (I will add that it wasn't a "good" recall, either).

Horses don't forget.

Velvet
Feb. 10, 2011, 12:35 PM
Horses have memories second only to elephants. Of course they don't forget. Thank goodness they forgive!! :D

Oberon13
Feb. 10, 2011, 12:38 PM
Horses have memories second only to elephants. Of course they don't forget. Thank goodness they forgive!! :D

:yes:

Absolutely....

netg
Feb. 10, 2011, 01:08 PM
Can anyone say anthropomorphism. It is touching how much he loved him but I think people tend to put human emotions on to their horses.

I agree with the others who said they get attached.

To varying degrees, and to most it's with the acceptance of us as a herd member. But some horses just really seem to have one person who becomes "their" person, and get really attached to that individual. It happens. My first horse was one of those horses. Unfortunately for me, the person I bought her from was the person to whom she was attached!

naturalequus
Feb. 10, 2011, 02:59 PM
Can anyone say anthropomorphism. It is touching how much he loved him but I think people tend to put human emotions on to their horses.

No, I disagree as well. He is reflecting on the horse loving his job (which is not anthropomorphism if you actually listen to your horse, as it happens - as it should!) and on being attached to the horse. Of course you are going to develop a strong partnership with a horse when you work with and develop them so thoroughly - or at least I hope so! Horses certainly do have long memories and can recognize past people, horses, etc to boot.

Example:
My Quarab is very much a people-horse but established a fairly strong partnership with the man who initially started him as a 4yo (12 years ago). A couple years later he and I were riding up the road to some trails when his old trainer drove past. RD stopped and got out of his truck to chat with us and Silver immediately assertively marched up to him (while I was in the saddle) and placed his head against the man's chest and in his arms. Something he would not even yet do with me at that time and not something he did with anyone else.

If you do not think horses experience emotions too (frustration, anger, joy, irritation, excitement), and that they cannot "miss" someone (horse or not) or not experience bonds and partnerships, you are missing out on something between you and your horse, imo.

I honestly felt pretty saddened by Gal's loss, reading the above - anyone who has had a strong partnership and bond with a horse can certainly empathize!!

spirithorse
Feb. 10, 2011, 05:57 PM
anthropomorphism

We are bipedal mammals, we are animals. Science has documented that there are numerous species that clearly demonstrate emotions we hold to be sacredly our own.

That word may well be the reason so many people take the horse for granted. Not comprehending just how much impact they have upon the horse.

Thankfully Edward Gal seems to be aware of his impact, although he questions Toto's capability to remember

poltroon
Feb. 10, 2011, 06:01 PM
There is no question my horses recognize people they used to know well but haven't seen in years.

Carol Ames
Feb. 10, 2011, 06:24 PM
better
anthropomorphism;) than that comment about women:mad:; but, forget not:no::eek:; these men are European:o
“Maybe some women aren't meant to be tamed. Maybe they just need to run free til they find someone just as wild to run with them.”




I think Edward is more than allowed to have a little anthropomorphism moment here....Who wouldn't after all this?!? Come on...

It is quite a sad story and yes, after seeing Matthias riding the horse, the WoW factor is a bit lost...I prefered Gal and Toto, they had such a great bond.

Can't wait to see him perform with another horse!

Helicon
Feb. 10, 2011, 06:30 PM
Public Service Announcement

Horses do indeed have the capacity for emotions. Emotions are not unique to humans. If you study a horse's brain you will see that the structures which produce emotions are all there. What horses do not have is the ability to analyze and rationalize and invent. These are functions which distinguish us as humans. In fact you could argue that horses are MORE subject to their emotions because they do not have a logical brain to rationalize, inhibit or subvert their emotions. Horses also have purer long term memories because they do not analyze and interpret their experiences.

Anthropomorphism is when people attribute human type logic to horses. When people anthropomorphize they usually do it to the discredit of the horse. For example, they blame the horse for plotting or calculating to misbehave in some way.

Horses would be treated much more fairly if humans would take the time to understand these important distinctions.

kayandallie
Feb. 10, 2011, 06:59 PM
Hah! I may be anthromorphismizing, but my horse has the capacity to analyze just fine. My skinny old horse knows that if he waits, I will give him more feed after the fat bully horse finally gives up and goes off to eat hay, and the fat bully horse watches my skinny old horse eat his grain with me standing right there beside him. He knows that if I go away, he can come right back and eat that extra grain but that if I stay, it is hopeless. This took him about two days to figure out.
I call that analytical.

Helicon
Feb. 10, 2011, 07:07 PM
I call that learning

dwblover
Feb. 10, 2011, 07:17 PM
I am glad to see such an upper level rider get so attached to their horse! He obviously loved the horse and misses him a great deal. I am sad for him, it must be so tough to lose him and know there will most likely never be another that even comes close. Depressing! :( The concept of love is different to each person, let alone a horse. I do personally believe horses can love, even if it is in a different context then us. And I think Toto will remember Edward and I hope it helps to heal Gal's heart in some way.

And GREAT POST Helicon!

Bethe Mounce
Feb. 10, 2011, 11:13 PM
Horses have memories second only to elephants. Of course they don't forget. Thank goodness they forgive!! :D

Horses never forget the bad stuff that has happened to them. So many of them come thru my hands and you just know someone did some thing to them. And I am the shrink to try and figure out how to alleviate their fears. The one thing our horses do far more readily than us humans is what you said...they forgive and when they do forgive, they forgive completely. Their sense of forgiveness is something I marvel at every single day. Very well said Velvet.

naturalequus
Feb. 10, 2011, 11:18 PM
Horses never forget the bad stuff that has happened to them. So many of them come thru my hands and you just know someone did some thing to them. And I am the shrink to try and figure out how to alleviate their fears. The one thing our horses do far more readily than us humans is what you said...they forgive and when they do forgive, they forgive completely. Their sense of forgiveness is something I marvel at every single day. Very well said Velvet.

It's heart-wrenching to see that tell-tale fearful response that someone in their past hurt them, but it is also the utmost rewarding and fulfilling feeling when they do decide it's time to trust again. The day my Cody boy came back to the gate to stand for scritches after I had turned him loose, and waited until I walked away to walk away himself - was an incredibly joyful day. So simple, but in his world it meant so much.

Bethe Mounce
Feb. 10, 2011, 11:27 PM
It's heart-wrenching to see that tell-tale fearful response that someone in their past hurt them, but it is also the utmost rewarding and fulfilling feeling when they do decide it's time to trust again. The day my Cody boy came back to the gate to stand for scritches after I had turned him loose, and waited until I walked away to walk away himself - was an incredibly joyful day. So simple, but in his world it meant so much.

Absolutely!!!!!! Without a doubt! It is a most magical moment when they do decide they can trust again. I remember with one I just cried and cried when he finally decided he could trust me, he looked at me as I just sobbed and then that first nuzzle on my cheek...licking at the salty tears! He may have been just after the salt, but I like to think he realized I was an ok thing in his life....

naturalequus
Feb. 10, 2011, 11:52 PM
Where's a "like" button when you need it :)

shalomypony
Feb. 11, 2011, 10:51 PM
Can anyone say anthropomorphism. It is touching how much he loved him but I think people tend to put human emotions on to their horses.

So what??!If that what makes people happy...so be it.

spotted mustang
Feb. 12, 2011, 06:29 AM
shame on those money-grabbing owners for selling that horse at this time, from under this rider.

I know the horse world is all about money - but shame on them! :(

And I don't envy Rath one bit. Unless he actually does even better with Totilas than Gal, everyone will poo-poo him, the poor boy.

oh, and to say animals have no emotions is just plain silly. They have an amygdala, so they most certainly feel emotions. Their emotions are rawer and less refined than humans', but they can also be stronger.

Coreene
Feb. 12, 2011, 10:42 AM
As much as it breaks my heart to see the horse with another rider (and especially one who I have strenuously disliked ever since he threw Isabel far, far under the bus), this "shame on the owners" stuff - really? No one in their right mind would turn down that kind of money. One misstep and POOF, there's your lame horse you could have gotten $15 million for but didn't.

Peace
Feb. 12, 2011, 11:44 AM
As much as it breaks my heart to see the horse with another rider (and especially one who I have strenuously disliked ever since he threw Isabel far, far under the bus), this "shame on the owners" stuff - really? No one in their right mind would turn down that kind of money. One misstep and POOF, there's your lame horse you could have gotten $15 million for but didn't.

Wonder if Gal owned the horse and was offered 15 mil for him would he have sold him.. I'd like to think he wouldn't but I bet he would have.

P.S. never said horses don't have emotion.

spotted mustang
Feb. 12, 2011, 05:05 PM
if that had been my horse, I most certainly would have turned down that kind of money (but I admit I am not in my right mind). You could offer me 100 million bucks and 200 years of life for my dog and I would turn that down too.

What I mean is, the owners of that horse owe Gal. He's the one who put Totilas on the map, and it's because of Gal that the horse fetched the kind of money they sold it for. Couldn't they at least have let them do the olympics together? They most likely would have won there too.

Foxtrot's
Feb. 12, 2011, 05:24 PM
And if Edward ever got back on Totilas the horse would go just the same for him as he ever did...he would respond to exactly the same buttons as before.

meupatdoes
Feb. 12, 2011, 07:16 PM
(and especially one who I have strenuously disliked ever since he threw Isabel far, far under the bus)

What happened here?
I thought Isabel refused the ride on the horse?

ridgeback
Feb. 12, 2011, 07:36 PM
if that had been my horse, I most certainly would have turned down that kind of money (but I admit I am not in my right mind). You could offer me 100 million bucks and 200 years of life for my dog and I would turn that down too.

What I mean is, the owners of that horse owe Gal. He's the one who put Totilas on the map, and it's because of Gal that the horse fetched the kind of money they sold it for. Couldn't they at least have let them do the olympics together? They most likely would have won there too.

Really...Really... That horse has NATURAL talent, don't get me wrong but any one of a number of riders would have put that horse on the map(or should I say the horse would have put the rider on the map)...Gal was paid I'm sure quite a bit to do a job, train and show a horse.period shaking my head in disbelief.

spotted mustang
Feb. 12, 2011, 09:42 PM
Really...Really... That horse has NATURAL talent, don't get me wrong but any one of a number of riders would have put that horse on the map(or should I say the horse would have put the rider on the map)...Gal was paid I'm sure quite a bit to do a job, train and show a horse.period shaking my head in disbelief.


yes yes, of course - but don't we believe that the magic of dressage lies in the partnership between rider and horse? Or is that just a myth? If horses can just be yanked out from one rider and shoved under another rider's arse like bar stools, then what exactly is the appeal of dressage?

Touchstone Farm
Feb. 12, 2011, 10:30 PM
... this "shame on the owners" stuff - really? No one in their right mind would turn down that kind of money. One misstep and POOF, there's your lame horse you could have gotten $15 million for but didn't.

Totally agree with this part of your sentence. I wouldn't blame the owners if they sold the horse for one million, let alone 15 (or whatever the actual amount is). Millions, people! To never have to worry again, to make sure you can support yourself, your family, kids or elderly parents?

naturalequus
Feb. 12, 2011, 11:51 PM
but don't we believe that the magic of dressage lies in the partnership between rider and horse? Or is that just a myth?

So... such a partnership cannot exist between a horse and its next rider?? Part of the "magic" if you will, is establishing said partnership between horse and rider and developing each as a unit and as a team. Each partnership stands alone and is separate from any previous or future partnerships.

EG knew the horse had the potential to be sold at a later date. He was just a rider paid to do a job. Part of the deal of being a rider and not an owner. Unfortunate, but reality.

Coreene
Feb. 13, 2011, 12:12 AM
What happened here?
I thought Isabel refused the ride on the horse?

Has nothing to do with the horse.

spotted mustang
Feb. 13, 2011, 12:29 AM
So... such a partnership cannot exist between a horse and its next rider??.

Not at first. It has to grow and develop over time. And then, just as the horse and its new rider have become a fine team, horse gets sold again and shoved underneath the next rider.

I dunno....I can't be the only one who thinks such a system sucks.....

naturalequus
Feb. 13, 2011, 01:37 AM
Not at first. It has to grow and develop over time.

No offense, but duh.

Yeah, it is sh!tty that the horse is later sold, but that is business unfortunately. That itself does not detract from dressage or the actual partnership though.

You don't want it to happen to you as a rider, you don't ride a horse you do not own. I understand, fully. But EG, to my knowledge, went into it knowing full well he was only developing and riding Totilas for a certain period of time. Afterwards it would be up to someone else to ride and develop Totilas - perhaps further, perhaps from another angle, etc. The next rider will offer something different to an extent.

meupatdoes
Feb. 13, 2011, 02:43 AM
Has nothing to do with the horse.

So what does it have to do with then?
I'm just wondering what it is you are alluding to.

alicen
Feb. 13, 2011, 09:00 AM
Aw, come on Coreene, unfair to make that statement and then go all over silent.
Please, do tell.