.

[gothedistance]

.

[Trakehner]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I suddenly catch a white cloud (??!!) enveloping the rider in front of me. Before I could react, *I* was enveloped in that cloud -- of horrible cigarette smoke! Coughing and waving it away I quickly ducked my horse out of the way, staring at this person in astonishment. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh come one now, what a smoking nazi drama queen reaction...this wasn't a Bhopal-like chlorine cloud. If just riding through a "cloud" of cigaretter smoke got you to coughing, see your pulmonologist right away.

I don't smoke, never have--ever. it's legal to smoke cigarettes in the hunt field while waiting to move off (but, you shouldn't throw your old butt on the ground...just manners). It's also legal to drink before the hunt (yet some scream about demon alcohol and how it will cause accidents and how they don't want their children exposed to drinking). You can also eat and drink while on your horse...and a ham sandwich may be horrid to a vegan, it's still legal.

This is a major overreaction to nothing. You can control people's behaviour in your own home...past that, get over it. I'm more bothered by the smells of cheap overslathered perfumes and scents everywhere else in life than a smoker outside. I don't expect them to not use perfume, I just try and avoid them in confined spaces.

[J Swan]

I don't care if people smoke at all - none of my business. Actually, I quit smoking a few years ago and the smell makes me violently ill - but to each his own.

But I'm rather surprised that anyone would be smoking or wearing perfume or aftershave in the field. Smoking when the hounds are being cast??? Smoking isn't permitted with the foot pack, either. Although the after hunt cigarette or cigar is ok.

I've hunted for years (deer, rabbit, squirrel) and we never did stuff like that. Messes up scent and it's a fire hazard.

Was this person a guest or something?

[xeroxchick]

I'm a big time smoker and love to smoke, I mean *love* it. That being said, smoking while hunting? Tacky. Tacky tacky tacky.

[J Swan]

I don't think I'd care to ride with a hunt whose Master permitted smoking while actively hunting. Light up all you want - but I'm there to hunt the fox.

I have the same pet peeve with folks who arrive at a meet smelling like a French whorehouse. I'm happy that they can afford so much perfume - but geez louise!

[x-rab]

I dislike smoking under any circumstances. I also think anyone who lights up out in the field with the current fire hazard conditions should be asked to leave the field. I don't think any hunt would be invited back to a venue if they burned out the farm because someone couldn't control their smoking habit.

[AilleXWest]

All the hunts I have been with have had a NO Smoking in the field rule. It is in the hand book we send out of rules.

It is just too big of a fire risk and it is not good PR to have land owners seeing you smoke on there land!!

Years ago we almost had our farm burn down after a paces as someone was smoking and droped it on the lawn and up it went.

AilleXWest

[Foxhunt4me]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">what a smoking nazi drama queen reaction </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha! ROFLMAO !

My former hunt featured a Fieldmaster that smoked a big fat cigar whilst leading the field at all speeds. You would have been mortified. But of course it would not be confused with a high class Virginia hunt where even the horses don't phart... to not confuse the scent for the hounds.

Good point was that sometimes I could tell when the field was upwind of me when I was whipping in without looking.

I am wondering how you put the cigarette out and dispose of it in a nice way - do you spit brandy on it from your flask and then tuck it in your sandwich case?

[turkeyview]

I am a quittor (quit smoking 3 years ago).

Guess that person was not too concerned about their "butt" being a fire hazard that could destroy beautiful hunt country. The hunt officials should have not allowed smoking.

That's another way to lose precious riding space due to somebody not thinking and causing major property damage. If I was the landowner, I would not have been very happy. No respect to the landowner - well, unless the landowner is also a smoker and does not care.

But I'm sure if their property was destroyed due to somebody else's carelessness, then they would care and not allow the hunt to travel through the property again.

[ToolTime]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trakehner:
....it's legal to smoke cigarettes in the hunt field while waiting to move off You can also eat and drink while on your horse...and a ham sandwich may be horrid to a vegan, it's still legal.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are many things, while legal, that are certainly not appropriate to do in the field out of respect to the hunt.

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Smoking in the hunt field....tacky.

[Trakehner]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There are many things, while legal, that are certainly not appropriate to do in the field out of respect to the hunt. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally agree...but most hunts to allow someone to smoke when everyone is getting ready. Is it tacky? Well, I consider smoking pretty tacky no matter what the situation...but it is legal and usually allowed...my reaction was to the "cloud of demon smoke my horse and I fought our way through while coughing up a lung" sort of drama.

No matter how fancy the hunts, my horses always "pharted".

[Carol Ames]

I, too am shocked, and, in addition to the health hazard worry about starting a fire. It is usually quite dry this time of year. I have been told that nicotine addiction is more difficult to break than cocaine adiction. at the nursinghome, all smokers were put on "the patch", no exceptions.

[tle]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trakehner:
I'm more bothered by the smells of cheap overslathered perfumes and scents everywhere else in life than a smoker outside. I don't expect them to not use perfume, I just try and avoid them in confined spaces. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Difference is... inhaling the scent of overslathered perfumes while naseating and equally tacky isn't a known, documented HEALTH HAZARD. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Subscriber or not, if I had nowhere else in the field to go to get out of smelling distance, I'd ask if they could put it out until we were finished.

[SimpsoMatt]

I'm somewhat ambivalent about this. I'm a non-smoker, don't like being around smokers, don't think people should smoke in confined spaces, don't think people should smoke where there's a fire hazard, and am disgusted at smokers who throw their butts on the ground and don't seem to think that's littering.

On the other hand, in the great outdoors, a whiff of secondhand smoke is annoying, but the fresh air usually dilutes it enough so that it's not a serious health hazard.

I've seen both sides of the "interfering with scent" argument. Some claim that hounds' noses are so sensitive that smoke (or perfume) would be even more of a problem for them than for humans. Others point out that since hounds' noses are so sensitive, they are constantly dealing hundreds of scents that we're not aware of, and manage to keep track of the important ones, and adding one more to the mix is no big deal.

So, as long as they're not dropping their butts on the ground, I think I'm going to go with the "It's tacky, but not worth getting upset about" philosophy.

[wateryglen]

Foxhunt - A former smoking master of mine used to put his cigarettes out on the sole of his boot then drop the butt. Only rarely lit up during checks. Couldn't ride and smoke at the same time thankfully!'
Oh....My....God.....my horses have been farting in Virginia whilst out hunting sad to say! Have those blank days been our fault?!! I mean....how does one train one's horse to refrain from this?!! This must surely be the ultimate level of hunt training to reach. Is there a website I can go to to learn?!!

[Red Hunter]

For those of you who have posted that cigarette smoke can interfere with a hound being able to pick up the scent of a fox, please explain????

The hound is smelling the scent of the fox on the ground -- the cigarette smoke is higher up in the air. How would the smoke screw up the hound's sence of smell?

As for smoking in the hunt field, I do not think it is appropriate, and most hunts do not allow smoking while hunting. It is a fire hazard. But, to say that it messes up the scenting is not the reason behind the rule for the no-smoking policy.

[Jennifer Alcott]

gothedistance, is it possible that the smoker was the landowner? If so, it might be a tiny bit difficult for the MFH(s) to tell him that he can't smoke on his own property. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Coming from the perspective of someone who has a little bit of experience (not much, but some) hunting hounds, my opinion is that one member of the field smoking would not interfere THAT much with scenting.

1) The vast majority of the time, the field isn't that close to hounds.
2) As Matt mentioned, there are thousands of scents for a hound to sort out that are MUCH closer to the hounds' noses--other game, the smell of the earth itself, plants, livestock, manure, car exhaust, horse farts http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (couldn't resist), and so forth. Sorting out scents is what foxhounds have been bred for. If a hound's nose can't sort out scents in a reasonable fashion, he probably doesn't need to be hunting, he needs to go be someone's porch puppy!
3) In keeping with number 2, as someone else has already pointed out, generally speaking, smoke will rise, or at least stay above the hounds' nose level, unless there are some really weird atmospheric conditions going on. I often smell fox when I'm out hunting, and of course, my first thought is "If I can smell it on my horse, the scent has risen too high for the hounds to smell it".
4) Other factors contribute, I believe, more to a hound's ability to hunt the fox than distracting scents. The MFHA publication "The Mysteries of Scent" points out a number of impediments to scent: Various illnesses, allergies, head trauma (being smacked in the muzzle can permanently damage a hound's sense of smell), poor fitness level, dental tartar (!), the moisture level in the mucous membranes (watering hounds at ponds and creeks on warm days isn't done just to prevent dehydration, it can actually improve the hounds' ability to smell if their mucous membranes have become dry), nutrition, and so forth.

All that said, it is still polite to refrain from smoking in the hunt field whenever possible, due to the possibility of fires. Some hunts are stricter on smoking in the hunt field when the summer and fall have been particularly dry. And it's NEVER acceptable to drop a cigarette butt on someone else's property, fully extinguished or not. If a person MUST smoke, the polite thing to do is put out the cigarette on the sole of your boot, then put the butt in your pocket.

However, when a person is on their own land, I suppose they're free to litter as they see fit.

Just my 2 cents' worth...

[xeroxchick]

Scent is a tricky thing people have been trying to figure out for, well, eons. It does not necissarily *stay* on the ground. Smoke does not necissarily *stay* up in the air. Air pressure, humidity, wind direction, and a thousand other things affect scent. That being said, I'm sure there's a lot of stink we ignore on our fancy selves - or we'd be scrubbed up and wrapped like deer hunters. Let's just all agree that smoking in the hunt sure could make the land owners nervous.

[Just My Style]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Oh come one now, what a smoking nazi drama queen reaction...this wasn't a Bhopal-like chlorine cloud. If just riding through a "cloud" of cigaretter smoke got you to coughing, see your pulmonologist right away.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you never suffered with asthma. Sorry. There is a reason I take my inhaler with me everywhere.

[Foxhunt4me]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Oh....My....God.....my horses have been farting in Virginia whilst out hunting sad to say! Have those blank days been our fault?!! I mean....how does one train one's horse to refrain from this?!! This must surely be the ultimate level of hunt training to reach. Is there a website I can go to to learn?!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yes, that is one thing I have figured out - you know that Charcoal filters out odors right? Well I figured since this was a fact that just before I mount up to hunt, I would shove a charcoal briquette or two up my horses arse. After that time I have never felt guilty about the houds losing a scent because I know it was not my fault !

[EXMFH]

You are killing me !

[ToolTime]

Flatulent mounts are unsuitable in the hunt field and should be retired to other, less tradition-bound sports, such as eventing.

[Jennifer Alcott]

GTD:

Well, I guess that pretty much eliminates the ONLY excuse that I could think of for this person's behavior! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I hear what you're saying about "why put more obstacles in front of the hounds"...there are so many variables that can negatively impact hunting that we can NOT control, so it makes sense to maximize the opportunities to provide good sport.

And, of course, dropping a lit cigarette is a flogging offense. NO excuse for THAT! It would have been awfully tempting for me to get off of my horse and make a point of searching for said butt.

[Foxhunt4me]

Trust me, Tobacco is not the worst thing that has ever been smoked in the hunt field. But usually not at a large check...

[race_run_jump]

I've never seen anyone light up out with my "phancy VA hunt" - but I think that I need the charcoal briquette - hmmmm......
I'd be offended by a smoker whilst hunting - back at the trailers is a different story. With it so dry out - I'd worry about the fire hazard. Plus, butts on the ground are nasty. Cigarette butts - the other butts land there occasionally too but are usually picked up by the legs and spine that they are attached to.......

[SimpsoMatt]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Foxhunt4me:
Tobacco is not the worst thing that has ever been smoked in the hunt field. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that's making an incorrect assumption that the other substances are worse than tobacco. Much less chance of dropping butts.

[hb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trakehner:
and a ham sandwich may be horrid to a vegan, it's still legal.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But a ham sandwich doesn't waft out in a cloud from the person eating it and surround the vegan in a mist of ham particles.

I'd believe in a person's "right" to smoke if they could somehow keep all the smoke to themselves...

[Dancing Booger]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gothedistance:
A small vent here....

The other day I was invited to hunt with a rather prestigious hunt. They'd already moved into rat catcher attire, and this was a weekday hunt. Horses and riders all turned out very nice. The field (not too large) moved off, and I suddenly catch a white cloud (??!!) enveloping the rider in front of me. Before I could react, *I* was enveloped in that cloud -- of horrible cigarette smoke! Coughing and waving it away I quickly ducked my horse out of the way, staring at this person in astonishment. I simply could not believe it. Of all the places NOT to light up, the hunt field -- and a very prestigious hunt at that -- would be the LAST place one would blatantly light up. Mind you, this wasn't at a check, or prior to the hounds moving off -- this was JUST AS the hounds were being cast!! What is it with these people? Can't they wait for a more private moment to feed their addiction -- like at their horse trailer, on their way back home, or some other place other than a tight group of people watching hounds that are working hard with their noses trying to catch a scent?

I am still in shock. Call me old fashioned, but I thought lighting up a cigarette in the hunt field while hounds were working was exceptionally rude as well as bad manners. And it certainly colored my perception of this hunt that they would allow anything like this to occur.

(On a lighter note: This person's horse apparently felt the same -- it was being downright awful -- certainly not something I'd ever want to saddle. Said person had to discard said offending cigarette rather quickly as it soon became apparent two hands on the reins (and a glued seat in the saddle) were rapidly becoming critical. Thankfully the hunt was fast and furious after that, giving no further chances of any other noxious weeds to make an appearance.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would lodge a complaint with the Master, this behavior is totally unacceptable. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[eventable]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">less tradition-bound sports, such as eventing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Uh, we're pretty traditional - you might want to check out the showjumpers instead!

[gabriellemg]

Doesn't that Wadsworth Hunting book say no smoking in the hunt field. We just received our reminder of hunting protocol for the upcoming season.
It specifically says no smoking on landowner's property.

If we had someone like up, they would be politely told to snuff it and dispose of it properly. If they ignored the request, they wouldn't be invited back.

Sorry smoking on anyone's property without permission is bad manners.

Gabrielle
Texas USA

[wateryglen]

Uh.....Ugh....I have a picture in my head.....I can't get rid of it.......Well anyway......
So how many of us who hate those smoking foxhunters are actually ex-smokers themselves I wonder?!! And....not all of us think tossin' back a flask is ok either. Friends don't let friends drive drunk I mean ride drunk! I think that's a bigger problem...not the smokey, gaseous kind! STAY CALM EVERYONE. I'm not a teetotaler but sometimes I'm more annoyed at the drinkers!!!

[EXMFH]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm not a teetotaler but sometimes I'm more annoyed at the drinkers!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Maybe they drink so much to be able to tolerate all the whiney a** people complaining about what other people are doing !

[CarrieK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now that's making an incorrect assumption that the other substances are worse than tobacco. Much less chance of dropping butts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I dunno about that! Back in the day too much
"other substance" would make my butt drop right off the couch onto the floor, usually when I was reaching for the cheetos or the White Castles.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Maybe they drink so much to be able to tolerate all the whiney a** people complaining about what other people are doing ! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh, my! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[bird4416]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But a ham sandwich doesn't waft out in a cloud from the person eating it and surround the vegan in a mist of ham particles. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
HB, What an amusing mental picture. Too funny.

[Big Fred]

Perhaps this is a bit deep, but if you read any of the old old hunting books, they recommend you don't eat until supper (not even breakfast). It is said that this and a days hard hunting purifies the soul. I practice this every time I hunt, although I do of course take my pewter bayonet flask, just to keep my energy levels up. My soul is too knackered to stand any chance of being purified, but it's a nice idea.

If people want to smoke that's their choice and likewise if they wish to eat, I don't judge them, they can do what they like. I have to admit that there have been times when lining a cover in the middle of winter, that I've considered taking up smoking just to keep warm, and if I've had an absolute stinker the night before, a little food would be nice. I do neither, and so keep out the cold and fight the hangover with a shot of God's very own Chateau de Meursault Marc du Chateau. Everyone hunts for different reasons and one of the beauty's of hunting is exactly that.

[Noctis]

I gave up foxhunting in MD when the entire field seemed to light up, not at the trailers, not anywhere but where/when we were riding. Call me fussy, but a severe asthmatic just doesn't need that. The large amounts of drinking going on also lead to me leaving.

I can speak from a landowners point of view (our property was part of a hunt fixture) and cigarettes being eaten by the ducks and geese and beer bottles tossed around by a hunt is tacky and rude.

I have absolutely no issue with these activities on your own time, or where it is more appropriate, just to get that straight.

[andalusia]

Escondido. I agree with you. And it would save some trouble, too, if the horse could do this in a musical way. We could all drop the music for the freestyle. Extra points if they can do it to seven steps of piaffe.

[CarrieK]

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif bwaahahahaha!

[gabriellemg]

The point in this entire discussion is...if the landowner does not give you permission to smoke, you do not. You don't smoke in someone's house without permission nor do you drop your ham sandwich, beer cans, etc., it is basic courtesy.

There are many other reasons not to smoke or leave trash out to include fire hazards, trash in general, and environmental hazards. Perhaps those smokers have thousands of acres to hunt, but here we have limited space and only a few landowners willing to allow foxhunters on their property.

So as a guest, you need to take care of it because you might lose the privelege. Might as well go back to the ring and be a show hunter.

Gabrielle
Texas USA

[Foxhunt4me]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I practice dressage AND I love horses that f@rt frequently and boisterously. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can hear her test read: " A, enter, collected trot f@rting "

-----------------

So I guess the solution is that you smoke whilst roading so you are not in a flammable area and not on landowner property. Else, your hunt should hire a Butt - Boy to walk around with a can of sand to extinguish all smoking materials.
Those big money MD and VA hunts can afford all manner of paid staff what with those $150 cap fees!

COTH ad: Prominent Virginia hunt needs Butt-Boy for formal meets. Pay commensurate with experience. Interview with MFH XXXXXXX.

---------------------

Likewise with drinks - the solution out here is to have a 'Whoopee Wagon ' follow the hunt from the road and then have frequent breaks where the riders would be served refreshments and snacks whilst mounted. Whoopee crew totes away the trash.

Of course, flasks are de rigeur but fluids such as Chateau de Meursault Marc du Chateau are frowned upon in these parts as not manly. Proper flask contents only have one syllable or at the most two:

' Jack ' ' Jim ' 'Port ' ' Gin ' ' Brandy ' ' jager ' ' Mix ' ' Dunno ' ....

--------------------------------

As in most sports and hobbies, WHINERS should stay home in a controlled environment and leave the fun for others to enjoy.