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Miss Dior
Feb. 5, 2011, 06:45 PM
Anyone using it ? Any mixing issues?

tempichange
Feb. 5, 2011, 06:49 PM
Yes, it's fantastic. No issues.

dwblover
Feb. 5, 2011, 06:53 PM
I know someone in NC who has it and always raves about it. It's the only arena around where you can ride after an absolute downpour!

ConcordiaDressage
Feb. 5, 2011, 10:54 PM
I've got it and love it! Easy to install, retains moisture well and not very dusty. It's probably the best footing I've ridden on.

Miss Dior
Feb. 5, 2011, 11:22 PM
For those that installed,how did you??? Parma?

ConcordiaDressage
Feb. 5, 2011, 11:35 PM
I used a parma which worked great. However at another stable I ride at, they put it on top of the sand but don't have a parma yet so we've been riding on it which is actually mixing it in really well...

Sister Margarita
Feb. 8, 2011, 04:56 PM
We have installed a new arena this past fall, and used the GGT from Premier. I must say, I never thought the new arena would feel like a 'seasoned' arena until it went through a few rainy seasons (we are in Florida). We used lots of water, pumped with an irrigation pump, so we are talking spraying about 150+ gallons a minute! It was hard for us to manage the hose, like a strong anaconda, but we got 'er done. It only mixes well when wet. When I drag the arena dry, it seems to pull up the felt. When moist, not an issue.

The cost for our arena was a big part of our farm investment, as I had no desire to compromise on my training surface, but it was definitely cost effective in the long run. We were able to use a fine wash sand, and the hold, cushioning and support are just what I wanted. I am very, very satisfied. If you are in Florida and want to take a look, feel free to PM me.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

spirithorse
Feb. 8, 2011, 05:02 PM
contact www.footingsolutionsusa.com

Miss Dior
Feb. 8, 2011, 05:58 PM
I just installed it in my indoor. Love it now, but mixing was not so easy at all. Horses were sinking on it for a while. Parma groomer wasn't that helpful at the mixing stage even when extremely wet. The tines seem completely redundant because there is no compaction. We finally took them completely off the groomer once it was mixed. If I had to do it all over again, I would do virtually everything differently. The video leaves you with the impression it is no big deal, sooooo not the case. But I believe it is the best surface on the market. Just wish they provided a list of do and do nots with the purchase!!! Grrrr.

justonemore
Feb. 8, 2011, 06:43 PM
I was considering it for my indoor at one point. The distributor I spoke with did tell me it's difficult to mix manually and recommended using a pug mill to blend the sand and the fiber.

horsey girl
Feb. 8, 2011, 07:29 PM
It is by far one of the best footing blends out there that I have ridden on. It is being used over the Otto Sport Mats at the Kentucky Horse Park. All the WEG Riders raved about the footing. Unfortunately, the "self install " videos online lead you to believe it is as easy as painting your kitchen! I spoke with a few professional installers and they all laughed when I told them I wanted to open the bales and spread it out by hand and have my horses blend it in....it is not that easy. The professional installers told me they either mix it off the arena with special equipment or at a sand plant. I rode in an arena that was carpet fibers and it was badly mixed. It was worthless as the fibers sat on top of the sand. I would expect the same to happen with GGT.

Sister Margarita
Feb. 8, 2011, 07:53 PM
It is by far one of the best footing blends out there that I have ridden on. It is being used over the Otto Sport Mats at the Kentucky Horse Park. All the WEG Riders raved about the footing. Unfortunately, the "self install " videos online lead you to believe it is as easy as painting your kitchen! I spoke with a few professional installers and they all laughed when I told them I wanted to open the bales and spread it out by hand and have my horses blend it in....it is not that easy. The professional installers told me they either mix it off the arena with special equipment or at a sand plant. I rode in an arena that was carpet fibers and it was badly mixed. It was worthless as the fibers sat on top of the sand. I would expect the same to happen with GGT.

I was told to mix it at the sand plant too, but that was not possible and with two drags, the anaconda fire hose and a few friends, I had mine down in half a day. It continued to mix to a better surface as it was used, and we did find a few spots not so well mixed in at first, but that lasted a short time, and it was not an issue with water on it. I do not drag it dry, as the felt gets pulled along with the drag. It is not a job for one person, I will agree. Moving the bales around took a tractor with a loader. There were four of us working on it.
It is different than carpet fibers I think, in that I saw carpet fibers used at a facility, and it was longer and stringier, not as likely to integrate with the sand and easily caught in a drag. Most of our felt was smaller thin pieces. I pull a small drag at the end of the day behind my Gator, and that seems to keep it well groomed. I have pictures of a footprint that I can send in an email if you want a picture. Just PM me.
Believe me, I am no footing pro, but I am really happy with my arena and feel it is comparable to some of the arenas I have trained in in really wonderful facilities. It retains moisture, so little if any dust, and is very rideable after a downpour, although our arena is crowned for runoff.
For a regulation arena along with an area around the arena for test riding 95 feet wide by 230 feet long, the cost was under $7K. The finer sand seems to integrate into the felt, and was for our area a very cost effective choice. We did put a good base in, which is essential to any arena, but still ended up under budget, and found it was about 2/3 the cost of crumb rubber.
One thing that took some getting used to was the color at first. Now that it is mixed in the sand, there is no color, but at first, when on top, looked like a lime jello ambrosia color like the school cafeterias used to serve:D
I would do it again in a heartbeat, and I am a footing nitpicker.

Fantastic
Feb. 8, 2011, 07:55 PM
Thanks for sharing this info.

What was the cost for your arenas? Can you breakdown what you paid for this additive and then also for the sand you bought?

carolprudm
Feb. 9, 2011, 08:08 AM
It retains moisture, so little if any dust, and is very rideable after a downpour, although our arena is crowned for runoff.
.

Of course contractor #4 STILL hasn't installed the base!
How much rain do you usually get? Last summer we went weeks with out rain though it does get humid.

suzy
Feb. 9, 2011, 08:29 AM
For those of you who have purchased this footing, was your arena brand new or did you already have some type of footing in it? If you had footing already, what was it and were there any challenges to integrating the two?

Miss Dior
Feb. 9, 2011, 10:08 AM
I will bestow upon you $35,000.00 of consulting advice....no kidding because that was the added cost if a professional did it!!!! I was told 3 inches of silica sand and 9000.00 lbs of GGT footing which came in around 9K with shipping over 1K. The sand specs are on the website and you MUST obtain the spec sheet from the sand supplier or you will most definitely be screwed. We are fortunate that one of the only silica sand providers in our state was exactly 100 miles away. Whew!!! No they could not mix it at the plant because that cost was around 5K to do and would really add significantly to the trucking cost, because no matter what they tell you, it does add volume that eventually with water and use decreases. But like in a month!!! So not on delivery! We installed the 3 in sand and applied the footing in a poop spreader. Used just the GGT dressage footing. Would only recommend at this point using half dressage and half jumping footing. There is much more stability with it which you will appreciate from the start. No luck mixing it really because the volume was so large now the Parma couldn't drag thru and mix it. Nor could any device made on the planet without harming your base. I was replacing an existing arena footing. Base was solid and laser leveled. But after a ridiculous amount of mixing drama it was so unlevel and uneven it was unuseable!!! Grrrr. We scraped it all up into huge pile at one end of the arena, which proved to us there was no footing worked into the bottom of the sand. By doing this the bucket did a great job mixing it fortunately!!!! We then laid in sections all across the arena 3 in high boards and using a huge tractor and front end loader poured it in to the 3in mark and compacted it and scraped it like you would concrete flooring or icing a cake. Did this which took 2 tractors and 5 men almost 2 full days for a 100x250. Actually correction, an 89.6 x 225. Very impt to know because the floor space is how you calculate the actual sand and footing needs. Remember those kickboards do take up floor space and that extra volume can be significant.How do I know this??? Because 1 now have the best round pen footing on the planet and then some!
Would I do it again...sure but exactly the same way. We spent 40 hours on that damn Parma groomer all to no avail. Installing it this way would have saved us a lot of worthless tractor and mixing time!!!

Miss Dior
Feb. 9, 2011, 03:58 PM
Oh almost forgot..it needs a special ingredient to make it bind. Your professional installer knows this. The poor buying consumers do not! It will not bind to and firm up in the silica sand that is so beautifully washed without it!!! Oh and did I mention they sold me 4x the necessasary amt of the GGT product???

Sister Margarita
Feb. 10, 2011, 10:23 PM
I guess I was just fortunate to fall into the right stuff.
The arena is new, installed in November. Our budget for the felt was under $7K, which included shipping. Bad experience however with FedEx, who dropped the first bales off a truck and one busted. Can you say 'mess'? I had a fit and the guy cooperated after that, using the drop tailgate that he should have used at first. :mad:
I am located in Florida, so prone to downpours, which we have had since installing the arena. We had one small puddle along the track where we should have raked better, which was gone in a couple of hours. The arena stayed nicely moist, not wet, for nearly a week, and it is in full sun all day.
We only added 2 inches of sand, which I was told needed to be a range of particle size. I remembered doing our indoor and finding that mixing products often produces a fluffing up to more than needed, so went conservatively. If I needed more sand, I could always add it later. So far it feels about as good as any I have ridden on. When it dries out, which in sun and breeze can happen here, it still is good, but I do like a firm damp sand, so we water it in between showers if needed.
I did a 95 x 230 area, maybe a little wider by the time we were done, but not much. There were some felt-heavy spots that were so easy to rake up and move in a Gator to spots that needed it, since it was not completely mixed in yet.
The arena was totally new, on a raised base of sandy clay that packs well, was lazered and vibrator-rolled then rained on before we put on the sand and GGT. I will say I did not do a great deal of research on products other than talking to other arena owners and a really great grading contractor, a perfectionist. So far, I am very pleased. Premier advised me that the easiest way to mix it other than at the plant was with lots of water, and it did make a difference. I still have some nitpicky work to do, like spots on the outside that are light on the felt that I can borrow from felt heavy areas on the outside, but my boarders are all very happy too, so no complaints here.

Miss Dior
Feb. 11, 2011, 09:22 AM
Yes consider yourself lucky! You were saved mucho drama because you bought 2 inches of sand! Me,I am completely OCD and followed the directions EXACTLY as advertised!!!!! The sand cannot be washed free of fines. Our silica sand plant has 25Million invested in high tech washing equipment. So when they erroneously specify washed sand, they don't realize that they are delivering product washed 99.9% free of fines. It isn't washed by bubba Joe at the local backyard sand plant!!! This will not bind!!!! Horses will sink on it like quick sand even with as much product as we have mixed in it! It needs fines added. Was not fun to do after the fact. Live and learn. But total bs advertising. FYI that cutesy little video showing the Parma mixing it in....they admitted that it was being mixed into beat up and used sand! Which of course would do it because it is heavy with soft fines! So I could have easily blended it with what I had, instead of replacing the whole mess...i.e. following the directions! Ha!!!

aikenhorses
Feb. 11, 2011, 10:19 AM
I AM THE USA AND CANADA REPRESENTATIVE FOR GGT FOOTING
IF ANYONE EVER NEEDS HELP ..PLEASE CALL ME DIRECTLY.SOME OF THE DISCUSSIONS ON THIS BOARD ARE Very Upsetting!!
Not all textiles are the same and alot of people think they are getting GGT Footing when in fact if they are not using an authorized distributor,,they may be getting a knock off,
We are more than happy to help with all processes of installing,consulting etc and have teams of professional arena builders who are considered the best in the world.864-804-0011 or ggt@polysols.com
ride safe and happy!:)

suzy
Feb. 11, 2011, 10:31 AM
Hm, these responses are leaving me on the fence. Also, what type of drag is needed for this arena? I do not need the added expense of a different drag. Will a york rake work?

Spyder
Feb. 11, 2011, 04:30 PM
I don't have GGT, but I got Eurofelt for my indoor right after the Athens Olympics. I got 1-1/2" sand, 1-1/2" Eurofelt for the square footage of the arena. I had the sand dumped, I dragged it. Then used a manure spreader to spread the felt.

Footings Unltd. advised using a chain drag. That seemed totally illogical to me after seeing the stuff. I attempted it anyway and I was right: not the right tool for the job.

I did some investigation and am very happy with my Handozer tow behind model D5-MGRS -- http://handozer.com/index.php/mgs-and-mgrs#mgs --
However, I tow it with a small tractor that has a 3 pt hitch and I attach it to the draw bar between the hitch arms so I can raise and lower the tool as needed.

It mixes the sand and felt nicely and doesn't wad up the felt. Works great.

Everyone who's never ridden on Eurofelt before is a convert after riding on my footing. They love it. One pro eventer who rented my bar for awhile said it was the best footing he'd ever experienced.

Spyder
Feb. 11, 2011, 04:33 PM
I have a york rake and I believe that is not the right tool for the job unless you have, say, every other tine removed to keep the stuff from getting wadded up and moving around too much. That's the beauty of the Handozer: the the spikes let the sand and felt slide through easily.

hokuspokus
Feb. 11, 2011, 11:33 PM
Yes consider yourself lucky! You were saved mucho drama because you bought 2 inches of sand! Me,I am completely OCD and followed the directions EXACTLY as advertised!!!!! The sand cannot be washed free of fines. Our silica sand plant has 25Million invested in high tech washing equipment. So when they erroneously specify washed sand, they don't realize that they are delivering product washed 99.9% free of fines. It isn't washed by bubba Joe at the local backyard sand plant!!! This will not bind!!!! Horses will sink on it like quick sand even with as much product as we have mixed in it! It needs fines added. Was not fun to do after the fact. Live and learn. But total bs advertising. FYI that cutesy little video showing the Parma mixing it in....they admitted that it was being mixed into beat up and used sand! Which of course would do it because it is heavy with soft fines! So I could have easily blended it with what I had, instead of replacing the whole mess...i.e. following the directions! Ha!!!
We purchased SoilTex (white) geo-textiles from Footing Solutions USA for our dressage and hunter/jumper rings in Oklahoma City. They are importing this product from Europe where it is being used extensively. It is a soft, but thick polyester felt with tons of fibers which you need to get the stability in the sand. They also were a great support selecting the correct sand (we sent sand samples to them) and they advised us of the proper installation step by step.- We also have 99.9% silica sand with no fines at all.-
Maybe s.th. is missing in your blend?
We had no issues with the blending with the sand which we did ourselves with a rotary tiller nor with the maintenance. We did purchase the Platz Max arena drag which is made for geo-textile footings - I don't see how the Parma and the others mentioned here could possibly work. They have no blending mechanisms.- We are beyond happy with our arena footing and we get many compliments from top trainers saying that it is as good as WEG

happyrider234
Feb. 20, 2011, 09:49 PM
hokus, did you get the drag with the lattice roller on the back, or the standard roller. In their info, it looks like maybe the lattice would be more suited to textile?

happyrider234
Feb. 23, 2011, 09:23 PM
Nevermind. Just found out the cost of that lovely drag! Cost more than my footing and installation! I'll be ordering the Parma groomer. Bad enough at $2000, but my Kiser Edge will not work.

Had 3000 lbs of dressage mix GGT added to 2 1/2" of existing concrete sand and rubber mix yesterday. Footing was good and drained well, but not supportive enough--horses would slide just a bit with each stride.

Can you say LOVE IT!!! Today, the horses stayed up on top of it, with only faint hoofprints. Yay!! It worked! And at HALF the amount I was recommended to buy.

This stuff is really easy to install (I guess if you have the right sand, judging by other's posts). However, it is time consuming. 5 guys spread it out by hand and rake, watered it, and it was carefully rototilled in. Took 6 hours.

I would highly recommend this footing additive!

Miss Dior
Feb. 24, 2011, 09:48 PM
Given my experience with this product(no it wasn't faux GGT) I would NEVER use less than the MANUFACTURER'S recommended amount. And it needs to stay fairly damp!!!

AdAblurr02
Jul. 4, 2011, 04:37 PM
FWIW, *most* sand based footing mixes work best when they are damp - moisture management is paramount to having good, consistent footing for any discipline. Sand type and quality does play a part, for certain - and silica sand is NOT a hard and fast requirement when using the GGT felt blends, far from it. Even relatively worn-out sands can be vastly improved by addition of the GGT material. Still, gorgeous results can be obtained using silica sands, if you don't mind the additional cost of the material - it can be hard to get in some locations. Check out the second image down the page here - wow... beautiful.
http://arena-rehab.com/customers01.html

Someone earlier on in this thread mentioned that it's easier to incorporate GGT (or any felt or fiber, for that matter) when the sand is wet - Yes. DEFINITELY. Especially when the GGT bales are freshly broken open and have not yet relaxed enough to loosen up!

I finally have the hard-working round pen of my dreams, over 8 inches of sand over a graded rock base - and GGT GEO felt in copious amounts. Once the bales were broken up enough, the Parma drag did a good job of incorporating the felt, though we did resort to using our rototiller on the tractor to hurry things up a bit (8 inches of sand is MUCH deeper than any arena footing would be).

During our truly lousy spring downpours this year, I was able to use the round pen (doing rehab work on a horse coming off an injury) every day, even when it was wet enough to have puddles where the surface had not yet drained - splashy, but NOT sucky or deep or slippery, the horse and I both stayed on top of the GGT surface. It feels like firm natural turf - easy on the horse's legs, easy on my old arthritic knees!

I can't say enough good things about the stuff - world class footing.