Saddle brands with hoop/U-shaped trees for BIG shoulders?

[Dapples7]

Can anyone tell me which saddle brands to look at for hoop or U-shaped trees (NOT V-shaped)? I am having a lot of trouble finding a dressage or AP saddle that has enough shoulder clearance for my horse. Horse is relatively wide and has BIG shoulders. It's the shoulders, not the wideness, that are presenting the fitting problem.

So far the only saddle I've tried that did work was a Crosby XL, which is not in my price range and is the wrong discipline, anyway. I really wanted to get a wide Tekna dressage saddle, but after looking at wither tracings the Tekna rep didn't think it would have enough shoulder clearance. :( I was also looking at a wide Toulouse Octavio, but after searching some COTH threads on that brand and model I am a bit hesitant.

Thanks!

[pattnic]

#1 - Send tracings to Trumbull Mountain Tack Shop. They kind of specialize in fitting the wide horses, and they are wonderful to work with. They will give thoughts and advice, even if what may work best is not something they have in their store.

#2 - Black Country

#3 - Duett (especially if you are in the sub-$1000 category)

#4 - It never hurts to *try* an extra-wide version of a saddle built on a traditional tree... Wintec/Bates/Collegiate XW, County XW, Thorowgood...

[analise]

Regarding number 4 above:

It doesn't hurt, sure...but if the angle is wrong, it won't matter that the tree is "extra wide", it still won't fit right. :)

I'm a Duett fan, myself, though Thornhills also seem to fit my wide guy well.

[Dawn J-L]

#1 - Send tracings to Trumbull Mountain Tack Shop. They kind of specialize in fitting the wide horses, and they are wonderful to work with. They will give thoughts and advice, even if what may work best is not something they have in their store.

#2 - Black Country

#3 - Duett (especially if you are in the sub-$1000 category)


Ditto this.


I believe that in addition to BCS and Duett, that Passier and some other manufacturers now offer hoop trees. Trumbull Mtn. will be able to give you excellent guidance. :-)

(I have three BCS saddles with hoop trees and LOVE them as do my horses with well sprung ribs and big shoulders.)

[HMM]

Black Country's Eloquence X works for wide shoulders and is more of a hoop tree. Fine Used Saddles has a used one for sale: http://www.fine-used-saddles.com/catalog.htm?Iit=951&Ict=82

[ThreeFigs]

Many British saddles are built on hoop trees. Consider Albions. A wide or extra wide, perhaps. I have a medium wide used Albion Original Comfort and it is actually WIDER than my wide Neidersuss.

Ditto looking at Duett saddles and consulting with Trumbull Mountain. They are excellent.

[pattnic]

Regarding number 4 above:

It doesn't hurt, sure...but if the angle is wrong, it won't matter that the tree is "extra wide", it still won't fit right. :)

Perhaps I should have qualified my statement. Just because something *shouldn't* be what the horse is most comfortable wearing, doesn't mean that it isn't. As was mentioned to me several times recently (in regards to my own saddle search), there are times when even a good saddle fitter just has to say, "Well, I'll be damned!" :lol:

So no, it's certainly not first choice (which is why it's #4! - lol), but it is an option that potentially warrants exploration should all else fail. :)

[artisticgold]

Another saddle to look for is a Lovatt and Ricketts ELLIPSE saddle, they are built on a hoop-u-shape tree, and don't impinge on horses with long laid back shoulders. I have one and the leather is the softest, yummiest leather and very comfy, and fits my short backed, long-shouldered, wide horses well...allows their shoulder to be free.

[LarkspurCO]

What to you mean exactly by shoulder "clearance"? Clearance where, exactly? Do you mean wither clearance?

[oldernewbie]

I have what looks like a lean Arab who happens to have *wide* shoulders. I tried every brand of saddle known to humankind - and ended up with a Luc Childeric dressage saddle. They are not all that common, but darn if it didn't fit - and it is a super saddle to ride in. I also tried a Thornhill from Trumbull Mountain that came so close to being right (and yes, they are super people to work with).

All I can say is that you have to be open to any saddle that might fit and try try try everything.

Good luck!

[JB]

Re: the #4 of trying a "traditional" tree - I agree. Not all non-hoop trees are the same A-frame shape. Some are quite narrow at the top of the A, but some are a lot more broad. Prestige, County, and Amerigo (at least some models of the latter) are, IME, in that category.

So, while they may truly not work, and the horse does need a hoop/U tree, it IS worth looking at those brands in particular, and any others that might fit that bill as well :)

[knippes]

I just purchased a Duett Fidelio from Trumbull. I too agree that they are a great place to purchase from. The Fidelio fit my 3 year old Morgan who is short coupled, with a wide, table back and huge shoulders. Trumbull can help you take a whither tracing and can try to fit the saddle from that.
-Kym

[buck22]

I was also looking at a wide Toulouse Octavio, but after searching some COTH threads on that brand and model I am a bit hesitant.

Thanks!
I've heard only lovely things about the octavio, and its quite hoopy, I've seen photos but not in person. I owned an aachen, and it was a very yummy saddle, and I'm a saddle snob who is not easily impressed :lol:

[butlerfamilyzoo]

I havent seen the octavio in person but a friend at my barn has the Vienna, has had it for a couple years, and man that thing is awesome. SUPER soft and comfy leather, kinda grippy without being suede, puts her in a lovely position and fits her belgian/arab gelding who has big shoulders but some wither and in a medium tree even! She had originally ordered a wide, but it was too big on him.

As someone who has been in similar saddle fit hell, i feel for you. I did really like the Niedersuss Olympik and it fit my wide mare like a dream, but sadly did not work for me. It's all i've tried on her so far. The tack store i ordered from recommended a kieffer because they can be widened quite a bit and fit her wide horse, and also an isabell (older model, i dont know if the newer models are the same tree?) as she had good luck fitting that to wider horses. I can second that as it fit a WIDE appy mare i used to ride for a friend of mine years ago. I have not tried one of those on my wide cob as i personally didnt like the isabell. Though i am eyeing the newer isabell, and curious if it fits the same...

[pheasantknoll]

My arab is really difficult to fit. I ended up with a L&R Berkeley and I LOVE it. I will say the Thornhill fit him, but the L&R is much better. As soon as I put it on him, he began to move a different way. He was much freer with more swing. I cannot say enough good things about this saddle for a wide, big shouldered horse.

[alveoli]

CUSTOM makes monoflap styles with super shoulder room...they will make it for your horse's specifics. I have the Valor. I had the Detente ISIS prior and it wasn't giving enough shoulder room in movement but standing still the fit looked good. Only way to really find out was to ride in several saddles.

The Duett is a good alternative for inexpensive(relatively speaking ofcourse) saddles but resale is very low compared to retail. My Detente cost me a loss of $800 in resale.

[Dapples7]

Thank you so much for all your help! I think I may go with an L&R. There are some decent internet deals on used ones, and from the photos I've looked at they definitely look like they'll fit!

[Fancy That]

I'm scouring for information on this saddle, because I JUST bought a used one for my very broad-backed, round, Morgan mare :)

It's being shipped to me now, and I've contacted Lovatt & Ricketts directly to get more info on it (serial number)

I know it's made with a hoop tree, has upswept panels and is shaped so that the shoulder has lots of room. I'm HOPING it fits my mare, but I bought it "blindly" just based on the features/description and feedback I've heard about this saddle.

My mare has big shoulders, a wide back, not much withers, and is somewhat compact (15.3 on her tip toes)

I love that these are made in England, super high quality, and really have the back-shape in mind for Morgans, Arabs, Cobs, Friesians, Halflingers or compact WBs.

I'm excited about it! I just pray it fits. She's in the XW gullet on my Bates Close Contact saddle (we do eventing)

If it doesn't fit, I have to sell it......

Glad to see it mentioned on this thread! Check out my mares' back/build:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Fancy%20Family/Fancyreversedapplessmall.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Fancy_white_hairs.jpg



Another saddle to look for is a Lovatt and Ricketts ELLIPSE saddle, they are built on a hoop-u-shape tree, and don't impinge on horses with long laid back shoulders. I have one and the leather is the softest, yummiest leather and very comfy, and fits my short backed, long-shouldered, wide horses well...allows their shoulder to be free.

[HCF]

I'm scouring for information on this saddle, because I JUST bought a used one for my very broad-backed, round, Morgan mare :)

It's being shipped to me now, and I've contacted Lovatt & Ricketts directly to get more info on it (serial number)

I know it's made with a hoop tree, has upswept panels and is shaped so that the shoulder has lots of room. I'm HOPING it fits my mare, but I bought it "blindly" just based on the features/description and feedback I've heard about this saddle.

My mare has big shoulders, a wide back, not much withers, and is somewhat compact (15.3 on her tip toes)

I love that these are made in England, super high quality, and really have the back-shape in mind for Morgans, Arabs, Cobs, Friesians, Halflingers or compact WBs.

I'm excited about it! I just pray it fits. She's in the XW gullet on my Bates Close Contact saddle (we do eventing)

If it doesn't fit, I have to sell it......

Glad to see it mentioned on this thread! Check out my mares' back/build:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Fancy%20Family/Fancyreversedapplessmall.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Fancy_white_hairs.jpg


Fancy That- My Anglo-Arab gelding is built like your mare - huge shoulders, very broad back, no wither, just a smidge under 16H. After many painful months of saddle searching, I ended up with an XW L&R Ellipse for him and it fits perfectly. :yes: Good luck with yours.

OP- I have BTDT with the hoop tree saddles with the above mentioned horse. I think all the ones I tried have already been mentioned, but I will reiterate - Black Country Eloqunce X (X means hoop tree. Regular Eloquence is not a hoop tree, I believe), Duett, Thornhill and L&R Ellipse. I believe the Ellipse is the only L&R model with the hoop tree, but I could be wrong. Trumbull Mtn was VERY helpful in my search. The only other one they recommended that I was unable to try (could never find one in the correct size!) is the Frank Baines Omni. Good Luck!

[Fancy That]

Brilliant! Thanks for the feedback, HCF :) I've never seen a Half TB built like my mare (she is shaped like a propane tank) Your Anglo-Arab must have gotten the well-sprung-ribs from the Arab side?

Can't wait to hear back from L&R on the actual tree width based on the serial number. My only concern is it wont' be wide enough. I'm sure even their standard MW, is probably like a Wide in most other brands (and the hoop tree gives more shoulder space and it's good for the no-withers :)

We shall see! Thanks again


Fancy That- My Anglo-Arab gelding is built like your mare - huge shoulders, very broad back, no wither, just a smidge under 16H. After many painful months of saddle searching, I ended up with an XW L&R Ellipse for him and it fits perfectly. :yes: Good luck with yours.

OP- I have BTDT with the hoop tree saddles with the above mentioned horse. I think all the ones I tried are listed above, but I will reiterate - Black Country Eloqunce X (X means hoop tree. regular Eloquence is not a hoop tree, I believe), Duett, Thornhill and L&R Ellipse. I believe the Ellipse is the only L&R model with the hoop tree, but I could be wrong. Trumbull Mtn was VERY helpful in my search. The only other one they recommended that I was unable to try (could never find one in the correct sizze!) is the Frank Baines Omni. Good Luck!

[HCF]

Brilliant! Thanks for the feedback, HCF :) I've never seen a Half TB built like my mare (she is shaped like a propane tank) Your Anglo-Arab must have gotten the well-sprung-ribs from the Arab side?

Can't wait to hear back from L&R on the actual tree width based on the serial number. My only concern is it wont' be wide enough. I'm sure even their standard MW, is probably like a Wide in most other brands (and the hoop tree gives more shoulder space and it's good for the no-withers :)

We shall see! Thanks again

He is actually 3/4 Arab, 1/4 TB and looks purebred except for the added height! Propane tank is a good comparison!


I will keep fingers crossed that yours will fit. I definitely think they run wider and the hoop tree gives the necessary wither /shoulder room.

[Fancy That]

Aaaah...okay....3/4 Arab...that makes more sense to me now :)

Usually TBs are much more slab-sided, and Arabs can be SO ROUND in the barrel and short in the back :)

Glad you found something that works!

Crossing fingers this L&R Ellipse will fit my "propane tank" of a horse. Otherwise, it's going up for sale! :)


He is actually 3/4 Arab, 1/4 TB and looks purebred except for the added height! Propane tank is a good comparison!


I will keep fingers crossed that yours will fit. I definitely think they run wider and the hoop tree gives the necessary wither /shoulder room.

[HCF]

Aaaah...okay....3/4 Arab...that makes more sense to me now :)

Usually TBs are much more slab-sided, and Arabs can be SO ROUND in the barrel and short in the back :)

Glad you found something that works!

Crossing fingers this L&R Ellipse will fit my "propane tank" of a horse. Otherwise, it's going up for sale! :)


He is the bay in this photo. :)

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c108/vettech03/188900_1903236628962_1483115584_2201638_2590658_n-1.jpg

[paintlady]

The only brands that fit my wide foundation QH bred Paint were Thornhill (34 tree) and Albion (wide). My dressage saddle is a Albion SLK, wide tree, low head.

[Fancy That]

OMG, sooo cute! I love his type! He DOES look like a nice, big, curvy, round Arab (but with size) Lovely boy.

I like the smoother, rounder, thicker-built horses in general. You're right - my mare and your boy are similar in build/body-type :)

One last pic that shows how thick Fancy is:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Fancy%20Family/PICT0046.jpg


He is the bay in this photo. :)

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c108/vettech03/188900_1903236628962_1483115584_2201638_2590658_n-1.jpg

[Baroquecoco]

This is really helpful as I am looking as well.

About a litte over year ago I bought my Andy a Stubben Roxanne which fits her great and worked for me until a couple of months ago. Now it puts me in a chair seat. Had the Stubben rep check her for fit and it is fine for my horse.

I bought a Duett Foxhunter for my "retired" horse to do a bit of baby cross country and hack around the farm on. I love, love, love how this saddle fits my big girl and it is super comfy for me. However, the leather is not great.

Does Duett make any saddles with better quality leather?