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View Full Version : Holsteiner breeders, suggestions for stamm 8769 mare



Leah A
Feb. 4, 2011, 12:28 AM
I don't ordinarily post for suggestions but have been away from breeding for a couple of years having my own baby so am out of the loop a little. Am getting back to my research and would love to know what information is now available. This is a special mare for me and I'd like to add to the list I've already compiled (one that needs drastic amounts more research and editing!).

Mare: Larosa Z (Louis/Lavado/Silvester/Landgraf), stamm 8769

Pedigree:
http://www.horsetelex.de/pedigree.php?horseid=180551
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/larosa+z

Mother line:
http://www.horsetelex.de/family.php?horseid=180551

Flavy (Lavado/Silvester/Landgraf), the dam of my mare, was bred by Gerd Magens (she was a pasture mate to Fleur) and produced 3 offspring by Contender in Germany. The first was sold as a jumping horse to Gerd Sosath. The second, a Premium mare, is the dam of the Zangersheide appr'd stallion, Jimy de Pravia (v. Casall), who was also the '05 German Reserve Champion foal. The third is a jumper in the US (although recent results are in the hunter ring). Flavy is maternal sister to the appr'd stallion, Corronell, and the internationally ranked GP horse, Cotton Candy, under Norman Dello Joio. Her dam is a maternal sister to Sir Orion/Big Sir, internationally successful under Mario Deslaurier and Francie Steinwedell, and the 1.6m horse, Century. She was a lovely mare with lots of scope and good technique as well as good, elastic movement. The rest of stamm 8769 speaks for itself and this particular branch is proving successful as well and includes a number of good jumping horses. Her sire, Lavado, was a promising young stallion with high bonits (9 for type) who died during his first month at stud. According to the Holsteiner Verband, Lavado had 27 offspring, 21 of which have entered sport and are very successful. He is listed in the top 25 of the 2003 Holsteiner breeding values with this very small number of offspring.

Louis (Lord/Ramiro/Colonel), the sire of my mare, is from stamm 776. He does have some Z licensed sons and a number of successful horses in the jumper ring. Breeding to him was a late attempt by the owners at the time to get a foal on the ground out of the mare as she was having some fertility issues and the stallion she was booked to wasn't resulting in a pregnancy.

While, the pedigree has a fair amount of blood, the mare herself does not show it in the phenotype nor under saddle. She is a large bodied, bigger boned mare. The Zangersheide inspectors said she was not old type but she is not an overly modern type either. Could use longer lines, longer legs (fronts in particular), croup is a bit short, needs to be more uphill, a bit of refinement overall. Is more a push ride but still responsive. Incredible work ethic and heart. Her interior qualities are excellent. Definitely need to add scope, power, and reflexes to her jump, bascule too. She needs more elasticity in her gaits and better articulation of the joints, especially the canter. Also, needs hardiness and dryness of bone for endurance in the sport.

Obviously, don't want more Landgraf. Might tolerate Lord/Ladykiller in the right place. Temperamentally, she can handle French (she's good in the mouth as well).

As the foals will likely be for sale marketability is very important. Jump is of high importance of course but I always like to retain, and in this case, improve the movement as well. I would prefer frozen and have an excellent repro vet that we've had great success with.

Suggestions are welcome and appreciated!

why not
Feb. 4, 2011, 10:18 AM
Dont know if he is available but I think Conteur could give you most of the desired traits. You will add some more Ramiro and have Ladykiller backup through a daughter. He gives big framed horses, long lines, not to heavy and very good movement.
But do not know if he is being distributed in north america

Leah A
Feb. 4, 2011, 03:50 PM
Thank you for that suggestion, I've been thinking of a Contender son for sure. What would the benefit of adding more Ramiro be in this case?

I should also say that I'd like Holsteiner or mostly Holst by pedigree and not neccessarily by registry.

I am interested in Champion du Lys as well...Any feedback on him?

I think a rubber ball, athletic type with scope and power would be benefitial.

why not
Feb. 4, 2011, 04:55 PM
I am interested in Champion du Lys as well...Any feedback on him?

I think a rubber ball, athletic type with scope and power would be benefitial.


Champion du Lys is disappointing in offspring here, underlined by a few breedingvalues:

http://lwksh.de/cms/fileadmin/user_upload/Downloads/Futterkamp/Zuchtwerte_Hengste_2010.pdf

Leah A
Feb. 6, 2011, 12:56 PM
Champion du Lys is disappointing in offspring here, underlined by a few breedingvalues:

http://lwksh.de/cms/fileadmin/user_upload/Downloads/Futterkamp/Zuchtwerte_Hengste_2010.pdf

Darn! Any information on his production with Holsteiner mares in particular?

Bumping...

why not
Feb. 6, 2011, 03:25 PM
Darn! Any information on his production with Holsteiner mares in particular?

Bumping...

These breedingvalues are from Holsteiner mares only.

Leah A
Feb. 6, 2011, 06:45 PM
Oops, guess I could have read "Schleswig-Holstein" at the top! Thanks again.

Conteur seems to have a bit of a dressage focus and I'd really like a jumper stallion that has both competed at the top of the sport and/or has offspring doing the same.

why not
Feb. 7, 2011, 06:37 AM
Conteur had in 2010 375 registred sporthorses in both disciplines in Germany. One was at S level in dressage and 11 in S jumping. The oldest were 8 years old at that time. In his first years he did not cover many mares.

He was purchased by Tannenhof at the korung and they decided to go with him the dressage way. But genetically he carries a lot of jumper genes.

Leah A
Apr. 6, 2011, 01:22 AM
why not, or anyone else who knows, would you be able to help me with the catagories for the breeding values you sent the link for? What does each one stand for in English? I know the first 3 (stallion, registration/life number, date of birth)...

Thank you!