Another million dollar hunter sold?

[blissful]

I heard a rummor at a recent show, that the best jr hunter in the country was sold to another jr.rider from CA.Does anyone have the skinny on this. What horse or rider?

[blissful]

I heard a rummor at a recent show, that the best jr hunter in the country was sold to another jr.rider from CA.Does anyone have the skinny on this. What horse or rider?

[horseygurl182]

Really? I haven't heard that but would be interested to see if this rumour is true. Anyone else????

[Ski Bum]

if you are talking about Nsync it is true. He was sold to Stephanie Danhakl (sp?) of CA. I have no idea about the price though. So jealous! I LOVE that horse!!!

Kristin

[MistyBlue]

Oh Lord, they named a horse after a boy band? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Congrats to his new owner.

[phxrayneigh]

Wow! she already has such a great group of horses, must be nice! She seems like a nice girl and I love her trainer-Archie is the best!

[Charlotte]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MistyBlue:
Oh Lord, they named a horse after a boy band? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Congrats to his new owner. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The horse's name is actually IN SYNC. Not like the boy band http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[sasa521]

Pics, anyone?

[neutral milk hotel]

I don't have any pics, but there was a picture of him in the Chronicle this summer I believe... I think it was about off-the-track-turned-succesful-horses...

[lilbayhunter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by neutral milk hotel:
I don't have any pics, but there was a picture of him in the Chronicle this summer I believe... I think it was about off-the-track-turned-succesful-horses... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yah, it was. There's also (I think) a picture of him from the WEF Circuit champions this year in the Chronicle.

Wow, he's such an awesome horse. Good luck to his new owner.

[Lord Helpus]

Yes, he is your basic OTTB from the Illinois area, I believe.

I know it was Bobby Dreyer who found him and started him. I think that he went to his first show and jumped around a 2'6" course only about 4 months after coming off the track. It was a winter show in St. Louis and the Jaynes were there and bought him from Bobby.

[BLBGP]

I'm pretty sure this is the horse. How exciting for Stephanie!

In Sync Photo (http://www.floridahorse.com/images/2004wef/CharlieJayneTP04.jpg)

Cheers!

[Ski Bum]

yes that is deff him! sorry about spelling the name wrong. I would watch the junior hunters just to see that horse go around! he is amazing!!! I wish them the best of luck!

Kristin

[WWCountry]

You think $1,000,000 was the price? Really?
What other hunters sold for $1,000,000?

[HSM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
Yes, he is your basic OTTB from the Illinois area, I believe. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL - I love the way you put that - "Oh, *yawn* just another basic, run-of-the-mill OTTB." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[Katie_Rosenzweig]

^^^ no kidding...

[Dana]

As I recall, that's the horse Charlie Jayne scored a 100 with at the Jr. Hunter Finals in KY last year. He goes around so nice.

Dana

[talloaks]

Geez, I,ve got a foal that looks like him and he can already jump at 4 ft gate!!Wonder what I could get for him???? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[luvmytrakehnerwb]

DAAAAAAAAMMMMMNNNNN!!! A million big ones?!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif As my dad would say..."for THAT price, it better sh*t GOLD!!"

[PlusTax]

Not sure if that's actually what they got, but when I was looking at jr hunters at WEF in 2002 that was how much they were asking for him then! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[intuition]

That seems to be the rate for Jr Hunters these days.

My friends Jr Hunter is amazing and she was offered just about that much for him at HITs on the Hudson a few weeks ago.

[xegeba]

This is the story that many would like us to believe. Million dollar Jr,Hunter?... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sleepy.gif Artificially inflated market. "Gee, Mr. and Mrs. Smith , such a bargain at 350,000.00" Ten % plus the hidden markup.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Are you serious? Hunters REALLY sell for that kind of money??? Is this fact...or fiction/rumour...? My gosh...wow.

That is some serious money!

So..what is so special about a Jr hunter..ie is it because it will pack a kid round safely..??? Sorry for the ignorance, I haven't a clue about hunters and am genuinely asking here!

[LMH]

Am I the ONLY person that sees the total absurdity in paying that money for a horse?

So what makes a million dollar horse that as opposed to a $350,000 horse...what added oomphs do you get for the additional $650,000?

I mean especially considering $350,000 seems like such a REASONABLE amount for a hunter...

Or what do you have to give up for a lowly $100,000 horse? Would he do lead changes? move nicely? or just perhaps trot in canter out?

Just making sure I understand all this.

[ser42]

Like anything else- it's the market. If people are willing to pay it, well, then, horses will sell in that price range.

It seems to me like many "made" horses with the scope to do the big eq and junior hunters at the AA level (and these horses usually have plenty of scope to spare) and the experience of already going to national finals will hover in the 100K range. These are the good, solid, well-trained (many with dressage experience) horses that a junior can do very well on. They are flashy movers and fancy.

The more expensive horses are the ones that consistently win on the national level and have that "wow" factor. In my experience, the majority of these horses have been campaigned by professionals- and won- before landing in the hands of juniors.

Why so expensive?? I'll agree, it seems ridiculous- especially when you are talking 1,000,000. That's just a matter of finding the right buyer willing to pay that kind of cash.

But let's take a look at the more common 100K horse on the AA circuit. This horse has had YEARS of professional training to get it to where it is now. That means years of major $$ being put into it- the professional training, board (which by the way in some areas can be around 1.5-2K a month), not to mention the expense of campaigning a horse on the A-AA circuits on the national level. Or the cost of basic horse care. Honestly- not much profit being made on the sale of that horse (except for the agents! LOL).

Of course, some sellers are making profits- I know of a green 5 year old that was bought for 50K and turned around to be sold a year or so later- after extensive training and campaigning with a top trainer- for 350K. But again, that's dependent on demand/market.

Yep, they're too expensive. But so is the upkeep, training, and showing of these horses.

[flshgordon]

So what are the qualities in the horse that one looks for when searching for a Junior hunter?

We all know not everyone can afford 6 figures for a nice horse, so I'm just wondering what are say *the specs* you need to have for a horse to be a junior hunter? I have a horse that I was thinking that would be his forte one day and since I'm not a junior, I'd just be curious to see if I'm way off the mark.

What would you look for in a Jr hunter...

height
show record
temperament
show record
vices
healthwise
how high should horse be able to jump easily
etc etc---anything else you consider

I'm in a learning curve here.

OH....and I almost forgot....would you consider a horse for a junior hunter if it had never shown as one---for instance if it had been an A/O horse or adult hunter?

[Timex]

yup, it's all too much for me. then again, my chidren's hunter, that i did the A's on (and did pretty well with, too), was my $1,500 ex-roper, unpapered QH gelding.

[Lucassb]

The upper end of the market for these horses is comprised of people for whom money is not really an issue. The cost of campaigning such a horse alone - typically with a BNT etc - already requires enormous resources. Of course, the great majority of competitors live way below this level of income and expense, but for the top few percent... they want the winner, and what it costs is of little consequence.

So, Flsh... these are big, pretty, spectacular movers with lovely, slow-off-the-ground jumps, extensive (multi year) records of winning in the very best company (WEF, indoors etc) as well as easy temperments, and lots of jump. I would say all of these horses could easily jump around the working divisions (4 ft) in good style and many have scope to spare beyond that; they're just good athletes. Beyond that, at this price range, they are also young and sound and very well made. And yes, you'd likely consider an A/O horse equivalent to a jr. hunter (most good juniors ride better than us oldsters, LOL) but not necessarily an adult hunter, since the adults only jump 3 ft.

[BB]

I think horse costs are a results of the amount of money in the sport. There are a lot of people who ride who have large amounts of money and don't mind spending it on a horse. If the average income on the A circuit was $60K, you wouldn't see horses selling for $1 million.

And I'm not taking away from the ability of the horse (or any other exceptional horse on the circuit). I just think the market drives the prices up. If someone's willing to pay it, then that's what the horse is worth! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[LaurenEHF]

All I have to say is that is one lucky girl... She owes her parents BIG TIME http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I personally think that paying $1 million for a jr. hunter is crazy. I've heard of Grand Prix horses going for that- which is alittle bit more understandable since there is more prize money, but still...crazy!!

[Bumpkin]

I will take half that for Elliot anytime.
As long as I can go watch him show.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[buryinghill1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LMH:
Am I the ONLY person that sees the total absurdity in paying that money for a horse?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're not alone http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
But we're not talking about normal folks here. They fly their kids to Florida (or Indio) every winter weekend; buy 75K Beemers so their urchins can get around Wellington (or Indio); pay 25K a month in board, training and entries per horse; buy "practice" horses for 50K; and plan on watching their kid compete at the Olympics in 10 years... and they just might...
Absurd yes, but such a sale wouldn't phase anyone from, say, 90210, 10504, 10021 or 06830 http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Diva98]

So, the topic says "Another" - are there other hunters out there selling for a million dollars? Can anyone name them? Wow. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I remember when it was such a huge deal when The Natural was sold for $1 million.

I have had the pleasure of seeing In Sync go and he is a spectacular horse - but my jaw still dropped at the price. That is just a different world from where I come from. I can't even imagine. Very lucky girl - I am sure she will have a lot of success with him, as she does with her other horses.

[horselesswonder]

Wow, that is a stunning animal. Wonder what he's like to ride. Here's my question: what does insurance cost for a horse with a $1 mil. price tag? I know the insurance on my horse, who is not worth anything remotely close to that, is fairly expensive, and I don't even have loss of use on him. Not that the cost of insurance really matters to someone who could spend that kind of money on a horse, but I really am curious.

[Nauset]

Sooo... who else desperately wants to see pics of this $1M horse ?!
Anyone have any?

[Lauren Sturges]

Congrats to Stephanie...he's such an amzing horse...as for how much they paid...thats for them to know...but people will be people and thats why its a topic on a public BB

[Lauren Sturges]

`

[Horsepower]

Actually, I don't think of this girl as lucky. What expectations from her parents go along with a gift like this? Seems like a lot to live up to for a young girl.

Just an aside: I know two trainers who won top shows at the big national level because when it came time to switch horses, they found the super expensive horse easy to ride and the person who had to get on their "more difficult" "cheap" horse couldn't ride it! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[BLBGP]

Nauset - I posted a picture on the first page of this thread.

The 1M pricetag is pure speculation (although Kelsey's statement on page one makes it seem possible). But Stephanie is a good rider who has ridden some "big name horses" before, so she should be fine re: pressure, etc.

Horsepower - not all expensive horses are easy to ride, they're just absolutely brilliant when you figure out how to ride them right.

[gummibear]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
The 1M pricetag is pure speculation (although Kelsey's statement on page one makes it seem possible). But Stephanie is a good rider who has ridden some "big name horses" before, so she should be fine re: pressure, etc.

Horsepower - not all expensive horses are easy to ride, they're just absolutely brilliant when you figure out how to ride them right. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank's for pointing out that this is speculation, I'm sure that figures can get incredibly inflated once the rumor mill gets cranked up. Besides, what someone chooses to spend their money on is nobody elses business but their own. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif It seems any time there is a post of this type it always turns into a "the parents are nuts, the kid doesn't deserve it, it must be a pushbutton horse" topic.
The girl that now owns this horse has definately handled pressure quite well. At the West Coast Junior Hunter championships, she was not only Champion of the older large juniors, she rode both the Champion AND Reserve in the older small juniors. Quite an accomplishment in my book. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[Bumpkin]

I don't see anything wrong with whatever price someone wants to pay for something. It is their business and their money. This is a very fortunate girl, and it sounds as though she is also a very nice girl. Good luck to her and her new horse.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Just My Style]

A million $ for a junior hunter GELDING? Sorry. Can't comprehend it. That is one expensive lawn ornament, if he ever gets hurt! I looked at the picture of him and, frankly, the horse does nothing for me. It's cute, but it better be more than cute for a million. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Then again, I would never pay extra because a horse came from a BNT with a BNJ (Big name junior http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

[Timex]

i hope the girl has fun with him, and good luck. but whether or not the price tag is hugely inflated or not, i'd be willing to bet he's WWAAYY out of most of our price ranges. not that i'd pay that sort of money anyway. i'll stick to my cheapy horses, thanks! LOL but definitely, good luck to her! lucky brat! (just kidding! LOL)

[horselesswonder]

I think the thread took an interesting turn into a discussion about junior hunter prices in general. Regardless of the price of In Sync, I, too, wonder what makes a hunter worth $1 mil. to those who can afford to spend that. And hey, more power to them. I would if I could.

[Vandy]

I have to say, he DOES look my OTTB (who is currently jumping crossrails at home LOL). In fact, I showed the picture posted earlier in this thread to my boyfriend, whose comment was, "Is that Mikey?" Gives me some hope http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I'm just thrilled that it's an OTTB selling for that kind of price, and not a fancy, imported warmblood. Good for them!

[411]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vandy:
I'm just thrilled that it's an OTTB selling for that kind of price, and not a fancy, imported warmblood. Good for them! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vandy, I couldn't agree more! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I'd be very curious to learn more about his history. I wonder what his Jockey Club name was and what kind of record he had on the track.

[HARROLDhasmyheart]

All I can say is...WOW!

[Smiles]

But will they be able to sell him for 1 million after there through with him? My guess is not. He's a nice horse and I've seem him go numerous times, but 1 million come on. Hey whatever just means that Maggie and Charlie will be attending 2008 olympics trials on nice horses.

[Katie_Rosenzweig]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BLBGP:
not all expensive horses are easy to ride, they're just absolutely brilliant when you figure out how to ride them right. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats so true.

and as to the comment that jr hunters selling in the 6 figures have to be trained by amazing professionals (aka BNTs) for years and years...i personally dont find that to always be true. one can do it without the help and political pull of a BNT, i did

in the case of In Sync, that horse is nothing less than amazing...whether it's natural talent or incredible training, he's still breathtaking to watch, its like glass. good luck with him Stephanie

[tblagg1110]

Did he already leave for California? I know of people here in Illinois that don't want to have to compete against that horse 'cause he cleans house

[Equine Adhesive]

He looks like your average A hunter to me. I have one who looks like him (and yes, over the fence) but lacks mileage (and he's a papered Appendix, not OTTB) for under $20k. Hmm...maybe I should hang onto him longer!

[Jane]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Diva98:
So, the topic says "Another" - are there other hunters out there selling for a million dollars? Can anyone name them? Wow. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I remember when it was such a huge deal when The Natural was sold for $1 million. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but the Natural was a long time ago. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'm not naming names, but I believe "the other one" was referring to one a few years ago, who also received a 100....and I'm NOT talking about the first hunter to receive a 100, Ozcar. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[silver]

To me that really underscores the need to develop an alternate form of competition for kids wihtout that kind of money. Yes you can get lucky but for the most part you need big $$ to win in the hunters, even if you're the best rider and trainer in the world if you can only afford one horse then you are at a huge disadvantage.

The UK developed the Pony Club games as an alternative to showing when the prices of show ponies got out of hand. And while top pony jumpers in Europe cost a lot many many kids are out there competing at one day shows on inexpensive horses and ponies trying to qualify for National Championships.

If this sport really wants to stay relevant the US is going to have to come up with something similar. NAYRC is an good start in taht you can qualify without having to leave your region but we need more and better. More one day shows with quality classes, more chances for people to get involved and keep moving up without breaking the bank and more emphasis on objectively judged sport.

What we don't need are more articles in People and Teen magazine on how show horses cost a million dollars.

[Lauren Sturges]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bumpkin:
I don't see anything wrong with whatever price someone wants to pay for something. It is their business and their money. This is a very fortunate girl, and it sounds as though she is also a very nice girl. Good luck to her and her new horse.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[Giddy-up]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by silver:
To me that really underscores the need to develop an alternate form of competition for kids wihtout that kind of money. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kids?? Kids?? What about us poor adults too?? Where is my circuit?? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

In addition to USEF & USHJA, I will now form PALM (Poor Adults Lacking Money) which there will be a single requirement of a household salary of less than $40,000 per year in order to be able to show & receive year end points. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[Freebird!]

40,000????? WOW - I have NO idea WHAT on EARTH I'd do with that as a yearly salery!!! - and we own 4 ponies, have a 2 year old son, and 6 dogs. So, where do I sign up for the PALM horse shows??

[Giddy-up]

Freebird--I don't know what to do with $40K either...should we make it $30K & under? I was just trying to think of a good jumping off range. Want to manage the PALM South circuit? Obviously we won't be showing at WEF, but we could try for more local venues. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Hunterland]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 411:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vandy:
I'm just thrilled that it's an OTTB selling for that kind of price, and not a fancy, imported warmblood. Good for them! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vandy, I couldn't agree more! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I'd be very curious to learn more about his history. I wonder what his Jockey Club name was and what kind of record he had on the track. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try this link:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=In+Sync&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

I wonder if that's the same In Sync? Seems too easy...

Where can I get my membership to PALM? I'd be happy to start the Canadian contingent. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[OneonOne]

I'll help found PALM Midwest. Can there be a division for the extrememly poor grad students among us? The EPGS, if you will?

[Diva98]

Sign me up for the PALM shows!

I have to say - the ever rising price tag on horses is one reason I am contemplating staying in the 3 ft divisions and not moving up to the 3'6". I love the hunters and have no desire to move to the jumper ring, but I also know that at the bigger shows, my sweet mare and I are not going to be competitive against the BNRs and BNTs. At the 3 ft, we still run up against really fancy horses and great riders, but I feel that there are way more opportunities - Ariat Medal, Classics, etc - to be competitive.

What ever the price tag, I think In Sync is an awesome horse. The picture of him may not do him justice, because when he is in the ring, he just takes your breath away.

[runspotrun]

Wow! That gives me hope for both my OTTB girls. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[MIKES MCS]

it is not the price of the horse or the name of the trainer that prohibits the economically challenged from showing, it is the simple fact that the judging is subjective rather then scored. If a rub of a rail down or a no change or a break of stride or a mishavior had a points value we would not have to compete against the horse that walks in the ring starting off at a 100 and works it way down in the judges eye while we work our rounds from our (NNB's)up from 50, Yes there must be some subjective judgeing for style and form but if they start all at 100 and there are actual scorecards, the playing field would equal out a hell of lot more, Unfortunately Judges would actually have to watch all rounds and have a secretary scribe notes or track points, yes more money for help but heck add a $5.00 fee to the entries and the cost is covered.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Mikes..are you serious? I always thought that the way you are suggesting hunter classes be judged...was the way they ARE being judged...

So how exactly do they judge these classes then? Do the judges just pull a number from the sky and award it???

[Seahorsefarmtobe]

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif no, no, no, silly! the horse with the highest price tag wins...oh, no, make that: the horse with the trainer I like wins...no, wait...oh, I know...the horse with the cute rider.....ad nauseum http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif hee hee hee

[findeight]

No doubt this horse got a high price, I've seen it go repeatedly and it was always wonderful and classically correct.

But I did not sit in on the negotiations and neither did anybody else on here so don't believe everything you hear.

Only the buyer and the seller know..,.and they are not talking...and they did not tell some 13 year old who told a 12 year old what they paid.

It's wrong to post based on an assumption of price based on barn gossip and ask for comments...most condemning the high price when we do not know what that price was.

I bet that price was hefty for a bonafide Junior Hunter and Eq winner at the biggest shows....but who knows what it was.
And who can say a million is now the standard when they don't know?????

[wtywmn4]

Amen findeight, amen!

[findeight]

Why thanks.
But I am in a BNT barn and get sick of stuff on here when posters slam a purchase price knowing nothing of the particulars.
Jumping to conclusions about the horse, it's talent, the people who bought it and what they paid is NOBODY'S business to spread on here UNLESS THEY WERE THERE WHEN THE CONTRACT WAS SIGNED.

Just my own experience in the horse world has taught me that buyers rarely tell anybody what they actually paid and sellers lie up the whazoo about what they got. Just a fact of life in the business world in general and the Horse world in particular.

[Fred]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunterland:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 411:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vandy:
I'm just thrilled that it's an OTTB selling for that kind of price, and not a fancy, imported warmblood. Good for them! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vandy, I couldn't agree more! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I'd be very curious to learn more about his history. I wonder what his Jockey Club name was and what kind of record he had on the track. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try this link:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=In+Sync&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

I wonder if that's the same In Sync? Seems too easy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too, I'm thrilled that this terrific horse is an OTTB! Maybe the fact that this kind of money (whatever the exact amount is not important to me) is being paid for a Thoroughbred hunter will help sway opinion back towards TBs in the hunter ring. Congratulations to his new owner, and good luck to her with him!

[HSM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fred:


Me too, I'm thrilled that this terrific horse is an OTTB! Maybe the fact that this kind of money is being paid for a Thoroughbred hunter will help sway opinion back towards TBs in the hunter ring. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We can only hope! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[silver]

findeight I don't think anyone's slamming the new owners of the horse for spending a lot of money. I just think its very very disheartening to other competitors to know that the sport is SO far out of reach of a lot of talented youngsters. SO many talented kids don't get a chance to move up through the levels in the current H/J world due to cost.

Thats why I'd like to see some other format with an emphasis more on riding skills and a lower cost. I know it takes skill to ride a hunter but the bottom line is that it is still the horse being judged.

[findeight]

Well, whoever started this horse did not pay that much for it and I'd bet the Jayne's didn't either-but they made it a success through hard work and good training.
That ought to be enough to make all with the talent to make one hopeful they will get the next like this one.

But you need the knowledge and ability do get it done, not wishes and hopes.

[mohawkrider]

Horses cost money. Damn. Start a bidding war for a desirable horse and yes, up goes the price. Value is in the eye of the beholder. And as another BBer mentioned, just because the horse is valuable does not mean everyone can ride it. If you've got the cash, or your parents, to pay for a great horse you can ride, then yeehaw. Welcome to America...

[silver]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Well, whoever started this horse did not pay that much for it and I'd bet the Jayne's didn't either-but they made it a success through hard work and good training.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah but it took considerable investment to make that horse! Plus it doens't help the kids from non-horsey families who want to take up the sport. All those parents see is the cost.

My brother and SIL don't want their daughter to ride as they see it as too expensive and time consuming and they feel that friends of their have been ripped off by professionals. They would prefer for her to play soccer and are trying to steer her that way.

This sport has an image problem. Hunters are naturally expensive b/c the horse is being judged but people think the whole of equestrian sports is like that. If kids competitions could be reformatted to have more structure and better entry level competitions it would benefit all of us.

[findeight]

BUT...this sport does include keeping an animal athlete in top competition form.
So, like it or not, it's never going to be cheap.

Sorry, that's just the way it is...and I struggle with it as much as others do. But that is the truth.
Comparing it with Soccer, where shorts and shoes are the only expense, is ludicrous.

[Luv2ride]

If that is his pedigree, my other 5 yr old is very closely related...maybe i can get that much for him once I start him at the big shows http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[van]

Bravo to the Jaynes. In Sync is a special horse that has been trained and ridden beautifully, and has aqquired impressive titles all over the country in the best company.

What seperates this kind of horse from other six figure animals?

1. He has ALL the right ingrediants... he is classically beautiful, a correct individual, has incredible ring presence, is a beautiful mover, has a mesmerizing canter between the jumps, and jumps in textbook style!

2. He has proven himself in the best company time and time again

3. He hasn't missed any dances, and looks like he shouldn't in the near future

4. Although he has been trained beautifully, he also has the "X factor"... that something that you can't train into them, and only time can prove. Every time this horse walks into the ring, he puts his game face on. This horse WANTS to win.

5. The market obviously bears it.

Congratulations to Stephanie on her new horse. She is a wonderful rider and works very hard at this. I look forward to seeing In Sync go with her at Indio this year. As to the speculated price tag... I am sure it was high, and rightfully so, and quite frankly there hasn't been a hunter sold for 1M that anyone I know has seen the signed paperwork for http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Vanessa
www.derbyhillfarm.com (http://www.derbyhillfarm.com)

[findeight]

This one is a repeated winner at the highest levels..not a "prospect" nor a "greenie".

But a made horse that goes, and can and does win Indoors or Outdoors at WEF and will do the same at Indio.

Good luck and congrats to his new owner..who still has to ride him.

[Heather Dobbs]

congrats to stephanie d. on getting such a great horse. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif if i could afford in sync, i'd want to buy him too. yeah horses cost money, but this is a business. if people gave horses away, they wouldn't make any money and couldn't afford to continue riding/showing/training etc. you can't realistically expect someone to sell something valuable cheap, when there is someone willing to pay big bucks. would you expect a lamborgini to be sold for 10K? of course not. the world isn't fair or easy.
and who says you can't win on a horse that isn't as expensive as the others? as people have said, in sync was once at OTTB. therefore, there is the possibility that anyone can buy and train and ride the winner. if you say you can't do something, you can't. i know it sounds totally cheesy, but if you believe you can do something(no matter how impossible it seems) and work hard, then you just might be right. we all complain and make excuses, but it never gets anyone anywhere. focus on fixing the things you can change, not driving yourself crazy worrying about what you don't have.

[linquest]

If this is true, does anyone know if it's affecting the TB breeding/racing industry in any way?

I would think that it would be in the best interest of the Jockey Club- Performance Horse Division to confirm this and market it if it is true. Maybe there will be less track castoffs heading towards the meatpackers if racing trainers/breeders/owners know what an investment an OTTB can be.

[showgirl]

This entire thread is so typical of the uninformed, running with non-factual internet gossip. This horse did not sell for $1M. It is a nice compliment to say "that's a million dollar horse" much the same to say "you have a million dollar smile". Do I have to TELL you that does not imply you paid $1M for your smile.

[Lauren Sturges]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heather Dobbs:
and who says you can't win on a horse that isn't as expensive as the others? as people have said, in sync was once at OTTB. therefore, there is the possibility that anyone can buy and train and ride the winner. if you say you can't do something, you can't. i know it sounds totally cheesy, but if you believe you can do something(no matter how impossible it seems) and work hard, then you just might be right. we all complain and make excuses, but it never gets anyone anywhere. focus on fixing the things you can change, not driving yourself crazy worrying about what you don't have. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Really Really Really well put Heather! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I love how I can think all of that in my head and not have it come out remotley as organized. If everyone had that attitude there would be alot more 'successes' and alot less 'failures'.

[Katie_Rosenzweig]

my horse Mikhail is an OTTB! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif TBs rock my world

[xegeba]

Heather, You have a great point. However, in this business there are few trainers that are willing to help a CLIENT turn that OTTB into the seven figure horse. There are far more trainers that want to buy the 7 figure horse than make one...

[Madame Butterfly]

And that, my dear Xegeba, is why I am making one.

MB http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[xegeba]

I want my cut when the deal is done... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Madame Butterfly]

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Heather Dobbs]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Katie_Rosenzweig:
my horse Mikhail is an OTTB! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif TBs rock my world <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

mine is too! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

thanks lauren http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Diva98]

I just hope this is a sign that the TB hunter is making a comeback. I currently own a WB, who I love, but I always previously had TBs and I still think they make fantastic show hunters.

I don't care what the price tag was, that horse is the coolest. I'll just miss seeing him in the midwest.

I don't think we will ever escape high priced horses. I just hope that our shows can continue to offer options for those of us who can't afford the pricey horse but still want to compete at the bigger shows.

[Madame Butterfly]

...there is a gorgeous thoroughbred hunter in my barn...

...but mine is a jumper....they make incredible jumpers..but they're hot and it takes lotsa time, patience and (like, uh, most important), skill to teach them balance and composure. It is a long-term affair and many people don't have the time, desire or skill to do it. I am currently working with two incredible people....dressage and jumping. I could not do this alone. It is just too difficult. But I am the one on his back applying this new knowledge. So, we are growing together....

You couldn't buy this kind of opportunity.

[Magnolia]

What a nice looking horse. Lucky kid!

As I get older, I notice a lot of people lie about money - they tend to inflate what homes and the like are worth/they could sell for. I have to imagine that the speculation involved regarding what horses sell for becomes inflated with each passing gossiper..... $850,000 becomes $900,000 becomes one million. Too bad we don't have tax records on horses.

By the way, does one pay sales tax on an equine purchase?

[LH]

Here's a little known secret: You don't have to spend a ton of $$ to compete at the bigger shows. You do, however, have to have all of the other components that the Jaynes (and many others) have in putting together a successful show program for their horses.

I've ridden and owned many OTTBs who were purchased for very little $$, but with MONTHS AND YEARS of hard dedicated work and the best training and riding, those horses won ribbons in the best competition at the biggest shows. Not all horses have that "extra" spark that In Sync has, and he could be the winner at any time at any show, when not all horses have that quality.

There is no substitute, though, for an attractive (doesn't have to be drop dead gorgeous) horse with a lovely canter (this is an absolute) who jumps in very good form (doesn't have to crack its back over every jump, esp. in the Jr. or Amat. rings), who is trained to go the way we want it to in the show ring, with a good attitude, and pleasant way of going. THEN, when you have all of that, you need a competent, sometimes clever, rider (with good foundation, training, and professional help) who can find the jumps and the track in the ring, showing off the horse to the best of its advantage.

NONE of these qualities absolutely require a six figure check. Finding these qualities in an inexpensive, green horse is always a bit of a gamble to begin with. Then, the development of the horse's show career depends on the level and quality of investment by riders, owners, and trainers. Sometimes, like with many of the Jaynes' horses, they get out what they put in. There can be no denying what a lovely rider Charlie is, and that they obviously have a program for this horse (and many others) that works.

[wtywmn4]

Magnolia you made my morning! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif The anwser is NO. Bet the feds would love to be able to tax these sales. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

xegeba, you said it all in one little semi sentence. "There are few trainers" and that is the key..It takes time to produce a talented horse. Most don't have the knowledge or where with all to do it.

[S4zeus]

I have been lurking on this thread and just wanted to pop in and say he is an amazing horse.

A million dollars, whether or not that was the purchase price, is not much in the horse world. Think about all the yearlings and 2 year old TB's that are selling for tons of money in the racing world. That to me seems crazier than spending the same amount of money on a horse that is confirmed. The yearlings and 2 year olds could go out and hurt themselves tomorrow and be "worthless".

Again. In Sync is an amazing horse and is worth every penny that someone is willing to pay for him.

** Did a little more searching. Fusiachi Pegasus, who everyone knows as the Kentucky Derby Winner from a couple years ago, was purchased for 4 million as a yearling. Granted he is now standing somewhere making some of the price back...I think that is a crazy sum to pay for a yearling.

[Magnolia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Magnolia you made my morning! The anwser is NO. Bet the feds would love to be able to tax these sales.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm. That is interesting. It sure would force more people to be straightforward about commisions etc. I'd think it would be like a luxury tax item like a yacht - is it because horses are livestock that they are exempt?

[Madame Butterfly]

Ditto, wtywmn4.

[kansaschester]

I find this thread a very inspirational one for the thoroughbred in general and the ottb in particular. I have been riding and showing wbs (and loving them) in the most recent past. but in March I somewhat inadvertantly ended up with 2 young ottbs and I love them! They are so smart and brave and willing.
I have shown one a few times in the baby greens and while he has done very well, it seems there is a current subtle bias against tbs by many of the judges and the bnts. I am hoping that a high profile success story like that of In Sync will at least level the playing field for tbs in the hunter ring.

[EStieg12]

Yeah... talk about expensive - read the book "Stud" about the horse racing industry and that will blow you away.
The sire Strom Cat's stud fee alone is $500,000!!! For ONE chance! ONE breeding! And the foal could be complete crap!
Good look to the new owner and I would love to see how my horse would stack up to In Sync in competition in a few years.

[Catalina]

NijinskyII's stud fee over 10+ years ago was $450,000 with no live foal guarantee ($600,000 with a LFG). There is a crazy amount of money out ther in the horse world, that's for sure.

[ESG]

"A fool and his money" and all that..................... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sleepy.gif

Nice horse, but damn!

And if the price is truly the price, wonder how much of that price is commissions and mark-up? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

[MyGiantPony]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> SO many talented kids don't get a chance to move up through the levels in the current H/J world due to cost.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I USED to believe that too - until we looked for literally YEARS to find a kid to do barn chores in exchange for the chance to ride some VERY fancy horses.

But ya know what? They don't want to work - they want it handed to them. And we aren't talking about working a kid into the ground - cleaning 4 stalls and feeding dinner a few days a week. Cleaning some tack. Cobwebbing now and again. A little typical barn work in exchange for the chance to ride and show some amazing horses.

[ESG]

Totally agree. It seems no one wants to work for anything any more. When I think of how I busted my a$$ as a pre-teen just to be able to ride any horse, I'm just amazed at the work ethic (or lack thereof) of this generation. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

[MyGiantPony]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
Totally agree. It seems no one wants to work for anything any more. When I think of how I busted my a$$ as a pre-teen just to be able to ride _any_ horse, I'm just amazed at the work ethic (or lack thereof) of this generation. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know - back then I'd have given my right boob for the opportunity we were offering! Rememering the crap I used to ride - just for the chance to ride! And the endless stalls I cleaned for that chance...it's a different world.

[dcm]

Wow. I would like to be on the selling end of that deal. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[mmaurer]

Can I ask a strange question?

If a horse sells for say $500,000...does the buyer ACTUALLY get that, (less commission)?

The reason I ask is that back in the early 80 in the arabian Industry horses were selling for INSANE amounts, but little of it was cash actually changing hands, there were tax write offs and non profit donations and trades of horses. So that out of a 400,000 deal the seller might get 20,000 cash. Is this happening in hunters?

just a thought I am pondering..didnt' the US tax laws change in the last year or so about depreciating horses again?

[findeight]

Tax laws changed big time in the mid 80s when most of the "hobby loss" deductions were removed.
There was a huge scandal in the Arab industry involving auction prices on horses that, apparently,never changed hands around the same time, maybe a bit earlier.
A fancy and well known breeder/seller hired a person to bid as if they were an actual buyer when they are merely jacking up the sale totals to induce other legitimate buyers to bid higher as well as advertise how much they sold a horse for. Said horses never really changed hands and were sitting out of sight at a nearby farm still very much owned by them. The phony buyer at an auction is called a "shill".
The same technique is easily used in private sales.
Another part of that particular scandal involved horses this breeder bought at the leading breed auction for very high prices, transported to the home farm and NEVER paid for.

Now, no such shenanigans are involved with this top ranked Junior Hunter and I do not mean to suggest so.

But you have to be careful about what you hear price wise.

[Ketch]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Totally agree. It seems no one wants to work for anything any more. When I think of how I busted my a$$ as a pre-teen just to be able to ride _any_ horse, I'm just amazed at the work ethic (or lack thereof) of this generation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow. That's a pretty big assumption you're making. Just because the kid has an expensive horse automatically means she doesn't work hard? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[sanctuary]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heather Dobbs:
congrats to stephanie d. on getting such a great horse. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif if i could afford in sync, i'd want to buy him too. yeah horses cost money, but this is a business. if people gave horses away, they wouldn't make any money and couldn't afford to continue riding/showing/training etc. you can't realistically expect someone to sell something valuable cheap, when there is someone willing to pay big bucks. would you expect a lamborgini to be sold for 10K? of course not. the world isn't fair or easy.
and who says you can't win on a horse that isn't as expensive as the others? as people have said, in sync was once at OTTB. therefore, there is the possibility that anyone can buy and train and ride the winner. if you say you can't do something, you can't. i know it sounds totally cheesy, but if you believe you can do something(no matter how impossible it seems) and work hard, then you just might be right. we all complain and make excuses, but it never gets anyone anywhere. focus on fixing the things you can change, not driving yourself crazy worrying about what you don't have. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen Heather! Everyone has to start somewhere. It's the driven, not discouraged, non-whiners that make it so.

[Go-Go]

I agree, Ketch. Geez, everyone knows all wealthy kids are all uncommitted slackers who don't really love horses. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I's a good thing this little rollie-eye guy is pea green - suits the color of the folks that are making envious and tacky comments about other people's children.

[Albion]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The sire Strom Cat's stud fee alone is $250,000 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, Storm Cat's fee is $500K. I believe that's for live foal.

People are willing to pay it because he's proven himself to be a great producer. If you have the money (and the quality of mare) to breed to him, why not. It's a business. The horse may go on to do nothing, but chances are - with the right pedigree - you can get a nice chunk of change for your yearling at auction.

[Ketch]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I's a good thing this little rollie-eye guy is green - suits the color of the folks that are making tacky comments about the kids. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hee! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Seriously. Every time I read comments like the one above, the first phrase that pops in my mind is "chip on the shoulder."

[Go-Go]

Really? I think tacky first, but that's just me. Chip on shoulder usually comes after tacky. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[Ketch]

Tacky's not a phrase. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Now if you had asked me what WORD popped into my head first, I woulda said "tacky." http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[MyGiantPony]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ketch:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Totally agree. It seems no one wants to work for anything any more. When I think of how I busted my a$$ as a pre-teen just to be able to ride _any_ horse, I'm just amazed at the work ethic (or lack thereof) of this generation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow. That's a pretty big assumption you're making. Just because the kid has an expensive horse automatically means she doesn't work hard? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually that response had NOTHING to do with her or any other child of wealthy parents. Why don't you try reading the thread before you jump all over someone?

[horselesswonder]

Ketch, go back and read the last two posts on page 5 and the first one on page 6. The posts don't appear to refer to In Sync's new owner at all. They refer to a more general discussion about horse showing being prohibitively expensive for most kids, and how some children, when presented with an opportunity to work in exchange for rides and showing, do not wish to do so. They don't sound tacky or envious to me.

[EStieg12]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Albion:

Actually, Storm Cat's fee is $500K. I believe that's for live foal.

People are willing to pay it because he's proven himself to be a great producer. If you have the money (and the quality of mare) to breed to him, why not. It's a business. The horse may go on to do nothing, but chances are - with the right pedigree - you can get a nice chunk of change for your yearling at auction. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I compleatly agree with you. I just thought it was interesting that people were freaking out over someone paying a mil for a hunter when just the stud fee for a race horse can be as much as 500,000. We're on the same page! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Go-Go]

Aha! Well, you are right on there - and that phrase is indeed the first one to pop into my head, too! Although, I'd like to officially start a committee to introduce TACKY as a phrase, because it sums some people up succinctly and very, very well. No need for extra words when one will contain it all in a nutshell.

And yes, it is logical to draw the conclusion that ESG is referring to In Synch's new owner as this thread is discussing what her family paid for her new horse. Really, it may be widely known knowledge how much the horse went for, but again, tacky about sums up talking about it on a public bulletin board.

[Diva98]

I still know plenty of kids who work hard - those with money and without! And besides, I don't think anyone could have the success that Stephanie has had without working hard. I don't know her and I have never seen her ride, but I would imagine that a horse like In Sync and some of the others that she has are not all push button but require a more sophisticated ride.

But hey, sure I'm jealous. I want a horse like that in my barn. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif And a million bucks! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Albion]

I guess the difference is that you have the possibility of making some of that money back in racehorses. In the case of a mare, if she suffers a career ending injury, depending on her bloodlines - you can still make $$$$ off of her in the breeding shed. It's a lot harder to do that in the hunters (well - any sport horse discipline, really).

I don't see why anyone cares, though. However much X person paid for Y horse, it's their business & their finances. If you've got the money & that's how you want to spend it, more power to you. It doesn't imply anything about the state of American teens as a whole, nor does it imply anything about the work ethic of a lucky junior. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

There's ALWAYS been big money in the horse world & there WILL always be big money in the horse world. I don't understand why people find this idea shocking and/or abhorrent. Yup, it's expensive. No kidding.

[MyGiantPony]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Diva98:
I still know plenty of kids who work hard - those with money and without! And besides, I don't think anyone could have the success that Stephanie has had without working hard. I don't know her and I have never seen her ride, but I would imagine that a horse like In Sync and some of the others that she has are not all push button but require a more sophisticated ride.

But hey, sure I'm jealous. I want a horse like that in my barn. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif And a million bucks! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think having or not having money has much to do with a work ethic. My post, which seems to have gotten under the skin of some folks here, was concerning kids who didn't have parents willing to pay for the ride (from lack of money or inclination, or whatever) and we were offering the opportunity to come ride and show some really amazing horses in exchange for some not-so-grueling barn work.

NONE of these kids who loved horses OH-so-much wanted to WORK in exchange for the opportunity. And that's a trend I've been watching for 20 years - fewer and fewer of today's youth want to work for anything - they feel entitled to having it handed to them. NOT ALL. Of course there are exceptions. I can only relate my experience.

As for the rider in question RE the original post - good for her. I love seeing people of all ages and backgrounds passionately pursuing something they love. I think it's wonderful that her parents are behind her and willing to financially back her. Not all parents - even if they have the means - would.

But when you talk about her success coming from "working hard" - keep in mind that people are reading that from different perspectives. I personally don't consider spending maybe 10-14 hours a week in the saddle "working hard". If she were mucking stalls, stacking hay, cleaning tack, doing turnout, plus keeping up her GPA, I'd call that working hard. Maybe she does all that - I have no idea.

[JumpinRealHigh]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MyGiantPony:

I personally don't consider spending maybe 10-14 hours a week in the saddle "working hard". If she were mucking stalls, stacking hay, cleaning tack, doing turnout, plus keeping up her GPA, I'd call that working hard. Maybe she does all that - I have no idea. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My Giant Pony-Who are you to say this person who bought this horse (By the way, how do you all know her name?) doesn't work hard or any other rider for that point just because they don't spend their time mucking, cleaning tack, turnout, stacking hay, etc????, and then spend 10-14 hours a week in the saddle. How the heck do you know what she does or what anyone else does???? Just curious!!!

I know tons of riders that work their @$$ off other than horse related and then ride!!!!

[silver]

My Giant Pony, I don't know where you live but a huge stumbling block for most kids is getting rides to the barn several times a week. My parents flat out refused to take me after a few eyars and as the barn was in the middle of nowhere I was reduced to hitching rides with people at nearby barns and walking MILES to get there, or begging my trainer for a ride.

and findeight club soccer is not particularly cheap, depending on where oyu live the fees alone are several hundred dollars per three months and there is travel and coachs expenses/salary etc. I doubt they're spending more than they would on lessons over a similar time period. The HUGE difference is that they know what they're getting for their money upfront, the coach and team are accredited with someone and they can leave her there unsupervised. Kind of like an old-fashioned lesson barn http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Diva98]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But when you talk about her success coming from "working hard" - keep in mind that people are reading that from different perspectives. I personally don't consider spending maybe 10-14 hours a week in the saddle "working hard". If she were mucking stalls, stacking hay, cleaning tack, doing turnout, plus keeping up her GPA, I'd call that working hard. Maybe she does all that - I have no idea. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, didn't mean to start anything! Right after I wrote my comment about working hard, I figured someone would comment. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I don't know, I appreciate any kid who is committed to riding and horsemanship. But maybe I am easier on kids than others. I didn't feed, muck stalls or do turnout (at least not on a regular basis) when I was a kid - because I was at school most of the day and I boarded my horse. And I don't do it now, because I work all day (and night http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif)and my horse is boarded.

But to keep this on topic, we shouldn't make any assumptions about this rider and her horses. So I will just end this with a congratulations to her and the Jaynes for being involved with such a nice animal, and I am out of here!

[Timex]

good lord, children, relax already. this whole thread is tacky, and worthless to boot. i've had enough, thanks.

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Albion:
Actually, Storm Cat's fee is $500K. I believe that's for live foal. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct, published 2004 rates are that Storm Cat is the highest @ $500,000 and 2nd place being A.P. Indy @ $300,000.

The record-highest price ever paid for a yearling at auction (actually Guiness records it as the highest public price paid for any animal) was set July, 23 1985 – a bid of $13.1 million at Keeneland for Seattle Dancer.

And what did they get? Seattle Dancer, trained by Vincent O'Brien: 5 starts 2-1-1 earning $152,143. Last known to be standing at Gestut Auenquelle in Germany with over 50 stakes winning protegeny.

Not worry, they made out better then the buyers of Snaafi Dancer who now occupy the second highest price ever paid for an animal. Sold in 1983 at Keeneland for $10.2 million to Sheikh Mohammed al-Maktoum. Snaafi never raced and proved later to be infertile at stud. Ooops http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Magnolia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Sold in 1983 at Keeneland for $10.2 million to Sheikh Mohammed al-Maktoum. Snaafi never raced and proved later to be infertile at stud. Ooops <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Can they do a fertility test before you dump $10 mil on the animal - - - - Though I guess when you spend 1 mil+ on a horse, you aren't relying on it to feed your family.

[MyGiantPony]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JumpinRealHigh:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MyGiantPony:

I personally don't consider spending maybe 10-14 hours a week in the saddle "working hard". If she were mucking stalls, stacking hay, cleaning tack, doing turnout, plus keeping up her GPA, I'd call that working hard. Maybe she does all that - I have no idea. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My Giant Pony-Who are you to say this person who bought this horse (By the way, how do you all know her name?) doesn't work hard or any other rider for that point just because they don't spend their time mucking, cleaning tack, turnout, stacking hay, etc????, and then spend 10-14 hours a week in the saddle. How the heck do you know what she does or what anyone else does???? Just curious!!!

I know tons of riders that work their @$$ off other than horse related and then ride!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee - did you miss the part where I said I DON'T KNOW what this particular rider does? Did you miss where I said I was talking from MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND PERSPECTIVE? Do you think that maybe my example of "work" was just that - an example? Maybe she digs ditches all day long and then rides. I don't really care. My point is, IMO, JUST riding isn't HARD WORK.

[MyGiantPony]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by silver:
My Giant Pony, I don't know where you live but a huge stumbling block for most kids is getting rides to the barn several times a week. My parents flat out refused to take me after a few eyars and as the barn was in the middle of nowhere I was reduced to hitching rides with people at nearby barns and walking MILES to get there, or begging my trainer for a ride.

and findeight club soccer is not particularly cheap, depending on where oyu live the fees alone are several hundred dollars per three months and there is travel and coachs expenses/salary etc. I doubt they're spending more than they would on lessons over a similar time period. The HUGE difference is that they know what they're getting for their money upfront, the coach and team are accredited with someone and they can leave her there unsupervised. Kind of like an old-fashioned lesson barn http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Silver - you are right - transportation can be a huge road block. I used to take the bus after school (on days I didn't work my other job) and walk 2.5 miles to the barn from the closest bus stop. I was lucky that my mom would pick me up in the evenings.

I just learned about soccer and I was shocked at how expensive it is. A friend at work has a daughter who is on a major team in Philly and she was telling me about the costs.

[gummibear]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JumpinRealHigh:
(By the way, how do you all know her name?) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See page 1, 3rd post.

[Lauren Sturges]

Whos next in the witty/satirical/bitter comeback line? C'mon guys dont let it stop now were only on page 7! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[CBoylen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magnolia:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Sold in 1983 at Keeneland for $10.2 million to Sheikh Mohammed al-Maktoum. Snaafi never raced and proved later to be infertile at stud. Ooops <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Can they do a fertility test before you dump $10 mil on the animal - - - - Though I guess when you spend 1 mil+ on a horse, you aren't relying on it to feed your family. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
From what I understand for insurance purposes it's better not to test the fertility of the animal at the time of purchase. That way, one can insure the whole animal and its fertility, race it if possible, and have an insurance fall back if the horse turns out to be infertile after its race career. One could not get the fertility insurance if the horse was deemed infertile before its racing career, and then the owners would be out of luck if the horse turned out (as in the case above) not to be much of a racehorse either.
If I've misunderstood the concept I'm sure someone will correct me.

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magnolia:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Sold in 1983 at Keeneland for $10.2 million to Sheikh Mohammed al-Maktoum. Snaafi never raced and proved later to be infertile at stud. Ooops <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Can they do a fertility test before you dump $10 mil on the animal - - - - Though I guess when you spend 1 mil+ on a horse, you aren't relying on it to feed your family. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think that the deal is that if you DON'T do a fertility test, you can get fertility insurance, and collect on it if the horse turns out to be infertile.

But if you DO a fertility test, and it is infertile, then you can't get fertility insurance.

So it is unlikely that the seller would permit a fertility test before sale, as they would then be stuck with an less valuable, less sellable, horse.

And I don't think that a fertility test on a YEARLING, especially a "short" yearling, would be particularly reliable.

[Jane]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by xegeba:
Heather, You have a great point. However, in this business there are few trainers that are willing to help a CLIENT turn that OTTB into the seven figure horse. There are far more trainers that want to buy the 7 figure horse than make one... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

7 figures? what are the percentage of sport horse buyers (regardless of breed) in that bracket? if you said 6, then you might have an argument there, even though I still believe there are more than a few trainers out there who are more than willing to help train an OTTb, as long as the horse shows the "right" potential. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Additionally, Heather knows about training an OTTB; her adorable junior hunter was green when she got him, and she's done a great job (with her trainers' help, for sure) with him. They've been doing extremely well, as a matter of fact, they won the Jr/AO Hunter Classic at the Hampton Classic last sunday.....the only TB in the classic too. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Jane]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S4zeus:

** Did a little more searching. Fusiachi Pegasus, who everyone knows as the Kentucky Derby Winner from a couple years ago, was purchased for 4 million as a yearling. Granted he is now standing somewhere making some of the price back...I think that is a crazy sum to pay for a yearling. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps, but that turned out to be a great investment on his Japanese owner's part -- he paid four million for him, the horse earned close to two million dollars on the track as a 2 then 3 year old, then was sold to an breeding operation for a reported 60 million. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[HSM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jane:

Additionally, Heather knows about training an OTTB; her adorable junior hunter was green when she got him, and she's done a great job (with her trainers' help, for sure) with him. They've been doing extremely well, as a matter of fact, they won the Jr/AO Hunter Classic at the Hampton Classic last sunday.....the only TB in the classic too. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go Heather! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (ps This is Willy's mom's mom! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

And go TB's!!!

[Heather Dobbs]

thanks! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif roger's a very very good boy, and tries so hard for me.

[JumpinRealHigh]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GummiBear:

See page 1, 3rd post. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks GummiBear, I know who you are now.....It was a challenge figuring it out, but gotcha!!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[EventerAJ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jane:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S4zeus:

** Did a little more searching. Fusiachi Pegasus, who everyone knows as the Kentucky Derby Winner from a couple years ago, was purchased for 4 million as a yearling. Granted he is now standing somewhere making some of the price back...I think that is a crazy sum to pay for a yearling. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps, but that turned out to be a great investment on his Japanese owner's part -- he paid four million for him, the horse earned close to two million dollars on the track as a 2 then 3 year old, then was sold to an breeding operation for a reported 60 million. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FuPeg went to stud at Ashford (American division of Coolmore). I think his first season was pretty pricey ($125K?), after the Derby and all. It's now at "only" $85K.
Fusaichi Pegasus (http://www.ashfordstud.com/stallions/Fusaichi_Pegasus/index.asp?CountryID=2&Country=America&StallionID=6)

[daytimedrama]

was he not one of the horses that was "shy" at first? or was that War Emblem? hmmmm I can't remember.

[Jane]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EventerAJ:

FuPeg went to stud at Ashford (American division of Coolmore). I think his first season was pretty pricey ($125K?), after the Derby and all. It's now at "only" $85K.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's right...Ashford/Coolmore! and thanks for the link, I watched the video of Roman Ruler at the Best Pal Stakes....his style totally reminded me of his daddy's Derby run. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think, with his first crop on the scene and seems to have produced some really nice horses and winners, his fee will start going up.

[Albion]

War Emblem didn't want to breed any mares. I think they have those issues revolved.

A lot of the "hot" youngsters coming off the track start out with relatively high studfees - after a few seasons, they go down (assuming, of course, he's not looking like the next Storm Cat).

If I had $125K to dump on a stud fee for my racemare, I'd have a mighty hard time going to one of the juvenile stallions (esp. considering most of them retire after their three year old year these days) when I could plunk down equal money for a more proven stallion, like Gone West.

But I think if you're into racehorses, you're into gambling - and not betting-on-the-ponies gambling. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Albion:
War Emblem didn't want to breed any mares. I think they have those issues revolved. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And the exactly thing held true for Seattle Slew at Spendthrift Farm in the beginning.

[lauriep]

Actually, I think the problems were with Slew O' Gold, not Seattle Slew. He was described to me as a VERY uninterested breeder, and the only way they could get him interested was a buckskin mare he had fallen in love with.

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
Actually, I think the problems were with Slew O' Gold, not Seattle Slew. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was indeed Seattle Slew himself, as cited on another thread this article: Lexington Herald Leader Jan '04 'Not tonight, if ever' (http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/sports/columnists/mark_story/8981104.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp)

[mnolen9698]

Interesting thread...

My mom rides with Stephanie. They show almost every weekend together out of the same barn. Over the past year or so, mom's gotten to know her some. From day 1, she has nothing but the nicest things to say about Stephanie and her dedication to riding and academics. And my mom doesn't blow smoke up anyone's backside.

So, I asked my mom if this rumor is true or not. She didn't know. She did tell me Stephanie got a new jumper and was quite happy and excited for her. Can't we all by happy and excited for her? (Can't we all just get along... If you can't say something nice...)

[findeight]

Fu Peg needs 3 or 4 crops to race before any conclusions can be drawn...and his sale prices were public both as a yearling and into syndication.

N'Sync's purchase price was NOT public and NO not everybody knows what the deal was despite the blaring of those "in the know" who don't know squat.

So back off the have/have not crap already and wish this kid good luck with a horse we all wish we could own...then go to school and work to get one like it or work on marrying really well http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[WWCountry]

In Sync is an awesome horse and Stephanie is an awesome rider. I wish them much success.
I think people are just amazed at the price of hunters these days and want to judge people who spend the big money. I say lucky for them that they have the resources and I would do the same if I could!

[clearound]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWCountry:
I think people are just amazed at the price of hunters these days and want to judge people who spend the big money. I say lucky for them that they have the resources and I would do the same if I could! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen!

[Hopeful Hunter]

as the owner of an OTTB that I've spent years putting into the show ring, I'm THRILLED to hear any OTTB was sold for big money in my sport. Will I personally ever be able to afford that? No. Just as I'm not likely to ever be able to afford to play in the big leagues. But I'm still happy for the OTTBs, and I'm sure the horse is spectacular and wish him and his new owner the best of luck.

I'm all about making this sport affordable -- meaning "costing less than $500 a month" type affordable. One way IS to buy the OTTB or greenie or prospect. BUT...there's a saying in my busines (PR/advertising) that sums it up:

Good. Fast. Cheap. Pick any two.

You want a good horse, right now? Ain't cheap. You want a good horse cheap? Ain't gonna get one right away -- think investing time and training. Think you want to get into the show ring now and not pay a lot? You won't get a good horse to do it with.

You CAN get a good horse cheap, but you can't get a good horse NOW that's cheap. The sad thing is, with the dearth of quality local and C & B rated shows, it's hard to find the places to train up those cheap prospects.

Personally, I feel if we want to rant about the costs, let's rant about the prohibitive entry fees to even get started and the lack of affordable showing opportunities. But this horse and his new owner deserve nothing but the best of luck -- yeah, I'd love to have the money but I don't, that's just life and I'll need to find my own way through it.

[lauriep]

I didn't know that about Seattle Slew. But when I visited in '93, it was definitely Slew O' Gold that they told a similar story about, and apparently he hadn't gotten any better about it.

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.Boylen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magnolia:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Sold in 1983 at Keeneland for $10.2 million to Sheikh Mohammed al-Maktoum. Snaafi never raced and proved later to be infertile at stud. Ooops <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Can they do a fertility test before you dump $10 mil on the animal - - - - Though I guess when you spend 1 mil+ on a horse, you aren't relying on it to feed your family. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
From what I understand for insurance purposes it's better not to test the fertility of the animal at the time of purchase. That way, one can insure the whole animal and its fertility, race it if possible, and have an insurance fall back if the horse turns out to be infertile after its race career. One could not get the fertility insurance if the horse was deemed infertile before its racing career, and then the owners would be out of luck if the horse turned out (as in the case above) not to be much of a racehorse either.
If I've misunderstood the concept I'm sure someone will correct me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, you nailed it. I know this because Lord Helpus corrected me on the same subject during a discussion of Cigar and his reproductive woes. Seems you can't test them before you insure them, and you can't insure a sterile (or low sperm count) stallion. That lovely Catch-22...........http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

[Tory Relic]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glimmerglass:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Albion:
War Emblem didn't want to breed any mares. I think they have those issues revolved. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And the exactly thing held true for Seattle Slew at Spendthrift Farm in the beginning. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, and I'm glad he caught on -- my lovely mare is a granddaughter...