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View Full Version : Okay All You GM Haters!



VarsityHero4
Jan. 27, 2011, 10:21 AM
I've always seen why people have issues with GM's style of teaching but I've always just chalked it up to the fact that every great trainer is a little cooky in some way. It's not like you can achieve success like his without being SOME sort of brilliant.

So here it is... CHECK IT OUT, in the latest PH the man is jumping (not just cross-rails and cavalettis either) a horse that a appears to be a powerful jumper. AND IN GREAT FORM! And he is how old?! :eek:

Love him or hate him, you really can't knock it!

Darkstar
Jan. 27, 2011, 10:24 AM
I've always seen why people have issues with GM's style of teaching but I've always just chalked it up to the fact that every great trainer is a little cooky in some way. It's not like you can achieve success like his without being SOME sort of brilliant.

So here it is... CHECK IT OUT, in the latest PH the man is jumping (not just cross-rails and cavalettis either) a horse that a appears to be a powerful jumper. AND IN GREAT FORM! And he is how old?! :eek:

Love him or hate him, you really can't knock it!

I saw GM ride a greeny a couple years ago at a clinic. Horse was being moody and George hopped on and schooled the heck out of him. I was super impressed with his jumping position then, and continue to be today. The man may be old, but he still has "it".

Ajierene
Jan. 27, 2011, 10:50 AM
A great rider is not automatically a great trainer. I do not know George Morris on any levell, but I find it interesting that people automatically correlate riding with training when they are two different skill sets.

JB
Jan. 27, 2011, 10:53 AM
One only has to look at the accomplishments of GM's students to know that he is also a great trainer ;)

MIKES MCS
Jan. 27, 2011, 12:22 PM
"It's not like you can achieve success like his without being SOME sort of brilliant".

Many people achieve this level of success with out being brilliant. It has more to do with business sense. marketing, HARD consistant work, dedication and determination.

findeight
Jan. 27, 2011, 12:50 PM
Au Contraire, Olympic athletes who have trained Olympic athletes for 50+ years ARE brilliant in their respective sport. All the business sense, marketing, dedication and determination as well as hard work in the world is not getting a baseball player to the World Series any more then it can get any of us an Olympic Medal or put one of our students on the podium.

Janet
Jan. 27, 2011, 01:21 PM
He is FAR more successful as a trainer / coach than he ever was as a rider.

Yes, he was on "the team". But if you compare his results with his comtempararies's (Frank Chapot, Mary Mairs Chapot, Kathy Kusner, Bill Steinkraus) it is clear tha GM was not the "star" of the team. But he has far excelled them in his sibsequent training ;/ coaching career.

HRF Second Chance
Jan. 27, 2011, 01:39 PM
One of my all-time favorite trainers isn't a rider. I mean as in like I've never seen this woman stick a foot in the stirrup. But she has an INCREDIBLE eye for detail, has an amazing amount of knowledge and can explain things in a way people understand. I completely attribute my great basics to her and I still consider her a mentor. In fact, I wouldn't even LOOK at a horse that I sent her clips of that she didn't like.

Having said that though, she's a total fruit loop.

dab
Jan. 27, 2011, 07:04 PM
I saw GM get on one of Chris Kappler's horses in a schooling ring years ago -- Chris was a BNR at that point, but not yet an Olympic medalist -- GM schooled the horse through the same exercise that Chris had been working on, and there was a noticeable improvement in the horse --

I have no desire to ride in one of his clinics, but I'd really like to see GM ride my gelding --

SnicklefritzG
Jan. 27, 2011, 07:51 PM
After all this GM bashing I am beginning to feel a bit sorry for him. My mom, who's not even a horse person, said "look the man is passionate about what he does. People should just let him be"

KateR
Jan. 27, 2011, 08:01 PM
I watched the GM clinic over here last weekend and didn't have any issues with his style of teaching at all, the only time he was frustrated or a bit impatient was when people didn't try to do what he asked, which is fair enough. He rode quite a few of the horses and his position was amazing, his lower leg never moved, and all of the horses except one went a lot better for him quite quickly. I learnt a lot, and it reinforced a lot of the good basics I have already been taught. The more I learn now, the more I appreciate the really good instruction I had as a teenager. Now I just have to be able to put that theory into practice!

Running Fox Farm
Jan. 28, 2011, 09:58 PM
He can walk the walk and talk the talk - even in his 70's. No, not everyone that can ride can teach. One does not connote the other, for sure. But y'know, despite all the bashing, he is a very humble man. I sure don't have any Olympic medals to my credit, and he does. At one of his clinics, he was describing back when he was sent to Gordon Wright for riding lessons. He said,in so many words as I can't remember the exact quote, which really surprises me, that after his first lesson, Mr. Wright said to him, " Are you sure you wouldn't rather take up tennis?" He has another famous quote, and I'll get this one wrong too - " Bill was the talented one- Bernie was the gifted one- and I, I was the plodder." I believe he teaches the way he does because he believes in his heart if you are willing to work hard enough, do what it takes, if you have enough desire, if you want it bad enough - you can be good. And when you come to a lesson without that desire, only with a pretense of devotion to the sport, well, why bother.

Beethoven
Jan. 28, 2011, 10:29 PM
I have to agree the man can still ride and is a great teacher. I have slowly been watching the clinic from wellington. I have just watched the first group flat and it was great. That grey that he hopped on looked hot and not necessarily easy and by the end looked better. She reminded me of my mare in a lot of ways, so I took his attitude to my mare today and the exercises he made the riders do and I had a fabulous ride. Her trot work improved tremendously. She wasn't a huge fan of canter walks, but she truthfully isn't a huge fan of listening to me in the canter. While she wasn't happy about them I could feel a difference in her canter after a few of them. I had been so caught up in that she is a sensitive mare and that I don't want to upset her that I was letting her get away with murder. Today I demanded, not in a mean or cruel way, that she listen to me and do as I ask. Wow it made a huge difference in her. I think she needs a firm leader when being ridden. :yes: I can't wait to watch the rest of his clinic!:D

I have read his book, but never seen him in action. I think he is awesome. I would love to ride with him. He is my kind of trainer. Ask me something and expect me to give it my best and if I don't then I hear about it.;)

Running Fox Farm
Jan. 29, 2011, 11:34 AM
I have to agree the man can still ride and is a great teacher. I have slowly been watching the clinic from wellington. I have just watched the first group flat and it was great. That grey that he hopped on looked hot and not necessarily easy and by the end looked better. She reminded me of my mare in a lot of ways, so I took his attitude to my mare today and the exercises he made the riders do and I had a fabulous ride. Her trot work improved tremendously. She wasn't a huge fan of canter walks, but she truthfully isn't a huge fan of listening to me in the canter. While she wasn't happy about them I could feel a difference in her canter after a few of them. I had been so caught up in that she is a sensitive mare and that I don't want to upset her that I was letting her get away with murder. Today I demanded, not in a mean or cruel way, that she listen to me and do as I ask. Wow it made a huge difference in her. I think she needs a firm leader when being ridden. :yes: I can't wait to watch the rest of his clinic!:D

I have read his book, but never seen him in action. I think he is awesome. I would love to ride with him. He is my kind of trainer. Ask me something and expect me to give it my best and if I don't then I hear about it.;)

Amen brother! ( or sister)

pds
Jan. 29, 2011, 12:08 PM
He is FAR more successful as a trainer / coach than he ever was as a rider.

Yes, he was on "the team". But if you compare his results with his comtempararies's (Frank Chapot, Mary Mairs Chapot, Kathy Kusner, Bill Steinkraus) it is clear tha GM was not the "star" of the team. But he has far excelled them in his sibsequent training ;/ coaching career.

Your post reminded me of the saying "those that can't do, teach."

pds
Jan. 29, 2011, 12:12 PM
George Morris is the Pat Perelli of the hunter/jumper world.

jumpsnake
Jan. 29, 2011, 12:57 PM
George Morris is the Pat Perelli of the hunter/jumper world.

?????????

That is so off the mark it is a complete joke. PP does not have any great competition background, or trained riders at the level that GM has/ does. Also, I don't see any 'George Morris Apple Sticks' for sale in my local tack shop, do you? PP is in it for the money. GM, love him or hate him, is a consummate horseman and has a true passion for the sport.

pds
Jan. 29, 2011, 01:10 PM
PP has trained hundreds if not thousands of high level riders.

Just ask him. ;)

Summit Springs Farm
Jan. 29, 2011, 02:11 PM
PP has trained hundreds if not thousands of high level riders.

Just ask him.

In what disciple? :eek:

danceronice
Jan. 29, 2011, 04:28 PM
Uh, I think GM comes across as a jackass sometimes when teaching or commenting, but I wouldn't insult him by comparing him to the Parelli shysters. He may be a jerk at times, but he actually teaches people to RIDE. And could probably do that with a horse in a $20 bridle, $100 saddle, and no fancy equipment or rhubarb sticks and not try to sell them expensive replacements based on their mount's "horsenality".

MEADOWLARK
Jan. 29, 2011, 05:53 PM
Pds, I think the expression is "those that can do, those that can't..teach"

Janet
Jan. 29, 2011, 06:24 PM
Your post reminded me of the saying "those that can't do, teach."
"Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach". George Bernard Shaw.

Often, but not always, true.

Sometimes because the most sucessful at "doing" can't always explain exactly what they are doing. But those who have had to struggle with it are better at explaining.

NeedsAdvil
Jan. 29, 2011, 09:21 PM
I have been very fortunate to ride with GM and many other BNTs in clinics. GM rode my horse and made a huge difference in him in just 15 minutes or so. Then he taught me how to do the same thing. He can DO and TEACH.

I rode w/ another BNT (Olympic Medalist, renowned trainer, etc), and found him to be 1,000 times ruder than GM, didn't offer solutions, just wanted to tell me how much I sucked, etc. This BNT wasn't even dressed to ride for the clinic. What a joke and absolute waste of money.

I get that GM isn't for everyone. But if you have a passion to learn and show up ready to listen and apply yourself, you will never regret doing so.

RugBug
Jan. 29, 2011, 10:06 PM
Uh, I think GM comes across as a jackass sometimes when teaching or commenting

Heh...I think the same can be said about most posters on COTH from time to time. :lol:

kchfuller
Jan. 29, 2011, 11:04 PM
Comparing GM and PP?!?!?! For real?!

Yikes!

Dry Clean Only
Jan. 30, 2011, 12:42 AM
George Morris is the Pat Perelli of the hunter/jumper world.

That is just inflammatory BS. Like his personality or not his system of riding is the best thing this country has going for us and the international results of our jumper team prove it.

pds
Jan. 30, 2011, 08:24 AM
Georges system? It was De Nemethy's method before morris laid claim to it.

theoldgreymare
Jan. 30, 2011, 10:11 AM
pds.....like every great trainer GM has incorporated the teachings of others into his system....De Nemethy, Wright, whoever....it works. The man has a track record of producing more top level riders than any other trainer in this country. To compare him to Parelli, the king of multi-level marketing, is just assinine. I see no comparison whatsoever.

To those that don't care for GM's teaching style......it is very old school. I am sure that other older people on here can testify to the fact that kids were not molly coddled in the 60's and 70's like they are today. GM says it like it is, as did many trainers of that era. If you can't take the heat than don't clinic with him, plain and simple.

Running Fox Farm
Jan. 30, 2011, 10:35 AM
Comparing GM and PP?!?!?! For real?!

Yikes!

Ditto, ditto, ditto and ditto!!!!!! Only I might repace the "yikes" with something a bit more inflammatory.

lauriep
Jan. 30, 2011, 12:41 PM
Georges system? It was De Nemethy's method before morris laid claim to it.

No, pds, you are wrong. George's system is a compilation of ALL the teachers he has worked with, of which Bert is one. And there are pieces of Bert's system. But there are also pieces from MANY other trainers, including a lot of dressage icons, as well as other European and American teachers. George developed his system of CLASSICAL riding from everyone that taught HIM classical riding, made it into a comprehensive system, and has never deviated from it for a nano-second.

pds
Jan. 30, 2011, 12:52 PM
Actually, De Nemethy was the first to bring a classical method to the US. Everyone after him (including GM) is a mere copycat. Sure they may have made some minor tweaks but let's give credit where credit is due.

Is GM a good horseman and teacher? But he did not invent the classical method. In fact if you are a student of his method and know anything of De Nemethy's, the two are nearly identical.

GM can not and should not be held with the same regard as De Nemethy [edit].

Lynnwood
Jan. 30, 2011, 01:32 PM
I've watched many of his clinics and IMHO hes is the kind of trainer that fits me to a tee. I want to feel when I get it right and be told when I get it wrong. I don't need fluffy hugs and lovey smiles every time I do something right. Kudo's to him for the life time commitment he has made to something he is passionate about. :yes:

doublesstable
Jan. 30, 2011, 02:04 PM
Actually, De Nemethy was the first to bring a classical method to the US. Everyone after him (including GM) is a mere copycat. Sure they may have made some minor tweaks but let's give credit where credit is due.

Is GM a good horseman and teacher? But he did not invent the classical method. In fact if you are a student of his method and know anything of De Nemethy's, the two are nearly identical.

GM can not and should not be held with the same regard as De Nemethy, [edit].


Copycat? So when you learn something and share it then your a copycat? Who taught De Nemethy? God?

If you actually pay attention to what GM says, he says to "have A system!" He teaches bits and pieces of what he's learned and works for him over the many years of being in the horse world... that's "his" system.

I'm sure you have yours pds... and I would assume your not a copycat!

[edit]

hntrjmprpro45
Jan. 30, 2011, 04:06 PM
In fact if you are a student of his method and know anything of De Nemethy's, the two are nearly identical.

Ok... assuming that their systems are identical (which I personally think there are differences, but yes, much is the same), how can you claim that De Nemethy was a superior teacher if GM is teaching a"nearly identical" system??

I think De Nemethy was awesome (love his book) but he is no longer with us and so GM must carry on his work. I think where GM gets his fame is not just from being a teacher or rider but due to all his work in the industry. We have a lot of olympic/international riders, we have a lot of trainers, we have a lot of judges, we have people who serve on hunter/jumper committees to promote our sport, but how many people do ALL of that for as many years as GM has? Very few.

This reminds me of a discussion Geoff Teal led at a trainer's symposium. He talked about what duty trainers had to our sport- not just a duty to teach/train, but to serve on committees, judge, act as stewards, etc. So many people complain about trainers being selfish and greedy but then refuse to step up and DO more themselves.

danceronice
Jan. 30, 2011, 07:10 PM
I give up trying to explain that there is a difference between not "mollycoddling" and "insulting your students" as anyone who keeps insisting insults are just being tough and anything less is 'everyone gets a trophy' is just being willfully ignorant at this point.

Pds, by your bizarre logic, if I were to start teaching dance in the style of my pro back in Boston, I would be copying him. So, because I absorb his style and find it effective, I would be copying? What is a person supposed to do, take everything they learned and how it was presented and throw it out when they start to teach? I don't think anyone here is under the impression George Morris is operating in a vacuum--if anything the reason he's so important is he's one of the few remaining coaches who actually trained with the previous generation of greats.

pds
Jan. 30, 2011, 08:25 PM
Bizarre logic? Hardly.

When you take a system developed by another and call it your own then yes it is copying.

Jaegermonster
Jan. 30, 2011, 08:44 PM
PP has trained hundreds if not thousands of high level riders.

Just ask him.

ROTFLMAO! Good one.

lauriep
Jan. 30, 2011, 08:50 PM
Pds, are you really that obtuse that you aren't getting what people are telling you? George has NEVER claimed that his system is anything but a compilation of the best he has learned from ALL the greats who have taught him. That is also why it is NOT a copy of Bert's system, no matter what you may think. Certainly he learned much from Bert, but he also learned from Littauer, Klimke, Wright, Heukeroth, Steinkraus, and so many more. the man is still a sponge for knowledge, still reads everey horse book he can get his hands on and continues to learn. And he mentions these teachers every chance he gets as his mentors.

dogbluehorse
Jan. 30, 2011, 09:00 PM
One of my all-time favorite trainers isn't a rider. I mean as in like I've never seen this woman stick a foot in the stirrup. But she has an INCREDIBLE eye for detail, has an amazing amount of knowledge and can explain things in a way people understand. I completely attribute my great basics to her and I still consider her a mentor. In fact, I wouldn't even LOOK at a horse that I sent her clips of that she didn't like.

Having said that though, she's a total fruit loop.

I love the p.s. "she's a total fruit loop". Personally don't like trainers who don't ride, because they forget how easy it is to make mistakes, and get all "holier than though" on you. If you train with someone who is still riding, they know that every now and again, you just "miss" and they don't make such a big deal out of it.

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Jan. 31, 2011, 09:12 AM
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Alterrain
Jan. 31, 2011, 11:50 AM
PP has trained hundreds if not thousands of high level riders.

Just ask him.

Name one. (That we've heard of.)

fair judy
Jan. 31, 2011, 12:32 PM
He can walk the walk and talk the talk - even in his 70's. No, not everyone that can ride can teach. One does not connote the other, for sure. But y'know, despite all the bashing, he is a very humble man. I sure don't have any Olympic medals to my credit, and he does. At one of his clinics, he was describing back when he was sent to Gordon Wright for riding lessons. He said,in so many words as I can't remember the exact quote, which really surprises me, that after his first lesson, Mr. Wright said to him, " Are you sure you wouldn't rather take up tennis?" He has another famous quote, and I'll get this one wrong too - " Bill was the talented one- Bernie was the gifted one- and I, I was the plodder." I believe he teaches the way he does because he believes in his heart if you are willing to work hard enough, do what it takes, if you have enough desire, if you want it bad enough - you can be good. And when you come to a lesson without that desire, only with a pretense of devotion to the sport, well, why bother.

he used the same self deprecating comment once when speaking with me after the funeral of my friend ronnie mutch..... ronnie was the gifted, and victor was the intellect, and GM was the plodder. i can hear george saying PLOD-der....

george made my sister cry every clinic, but never me. bess went on to be a rider who could put a stop in anything she got on. i was never a talent, and frankly george didn't ever get as much out of me as robert hoskins did, LOL, but i rode with him for two seasons. when i left GM to ride for the first time with rwm at harrisburg i ( miraculously) pulled a res ch. i was never so pleased as i was that night when we rode for our tricolors. george came up and said, "ro-knee, how di-d you do iT? she is teRRRRR-i- ble!" all ronnie said was, "i didn't yell at her" years later GM told me he took that conversation to heart. those who think the elder george is bad don't know what they missed!!!!

I have always found george to be refreshingly honest and a good communicator. he is a gentleman and a grand soul. he found the most perfect horse to suit me and for that i will be EVER grateful.

fair judy
Jan. 31, 2011, 12:42 PM
pds, i can assure YOU that BD would be ashamed at your comments being used to demean a fellow horseman. it is shameful of you to use that great man's name to impugn another in any way. :mad:

tabula rashah
Jan. 31, 2011, 12:53 PM
I will start with the disclaimer that it's been years since I've done anything H/J.
Can GM teach? Yes! Can GM ride? Yes! Would I ever lesson or clinic with him? NO!
I've worked with BNTs who ride and teach and know how to do both without being demeaning and insulting. That's where I chose to put my money. Everyone else has that same choice- If you like him and his style of teaching, have at it. If you don't, walk away with your purse strings closed- simple as that.

I will say though one of the biggest things that put me off about GM is reading an ancient issue of PH with a critique where he said something about chestnuts with flaxen mane and tail not having the heart to be good jumpers. He lost me then and there.