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grayarabs
Jan. 24, 2011, 08:15 PM
Did I misunderstand when reading about test revisions in Coth mag a few weeks ago - 4th level? - a line of changes where is required 4's then 3's then 4's then 3's (how many times?) across the diagonal? I read and re-read - could not understand - then knowing will never do tempi changes gave up and put the mag in recycle. Now it is bugging me. Please excuse if I imagined this or if has otherwise been discussed. I am now way out of the dressage loop, but just could not conceive of what I thought I was reading. TIA.

alibi_18
Jan. 24, 2011, 08:32 PM
Usually, that was seen in PSG...

Equi88
Jan. 24, 2011, 08:34 PM
Fourth level Test 3?
HXF Three flying changes every fourth stride.

Or test 2?

MXK Three single flying changes, the first near the first quarterline, second change near X, third change near snd quarterline.

yaya
Jan. 24, 2011, 08:38 PM
Yes, you apparently misunderstood.

But you are correct in that they have changed up the tempis in Fourth level. Gone are any 3-tempis.

In Fourth 2, you have three flying changes across the diagonal, but no specified count. Just one near the quarterline, one near X, and one near the far quarterline. So it could be 5s or 4s (probably not 3s, but you wouldn't be penalized unless your geometry got way off) or any combination thereof.

Then in Fourth 3, you just have one line of 3 4-tempis across the diagonal.

Does that help?

ETA: Geez, I must be getting slower at typing. Between the time I started my answer and the time I finished, two other people snuck in with posts.

alibi_18
Jan. 24, 2011, 08:40 PM
You are correct, only one line of three 'fours' in the third test of forth level.
And the single flying changes like you said in the second test.

grayarabs
Jan. 24, 2011, 08:44 PM
Came back to revise my question - as so befuddled could not explain. Equi - I think that is what I meant. 3 changes every 4th stride. I don't know why I think that is weird - and seemingly more difficult than "just" changes in series of 4's, 3's, 2's, 1's. Granted I have not looked at FEI tests in years, but I don't recall anything like 3 changes every 4th stride. Then will ask - revisions made to this for 2011? from what and why? TIA.

mjhco
Jan. 24, 2011, 08:57 PM
The 2007 4th level test 3 required 3 changes every 4th stride AND 3 changes every 3rd.

And the tests before that required the same.

yaya
Jan. 24, 2011, 09:04 PM
They were trying to make it more of a difference between 4-3 and PSG, more of a step up. A lot of people felt the 2007 4-3 was actually harder than PSG, so they dialed it back.

The FEI tests go like this:
PSG - 5 4s and 5 3s
I1 - 5 3s and 7 2s
I2 - 7 2s and 11 1s
GP - 9 2s and 15 1s
GPS - 9 2s and 15 1s then 9 more 1s on centerline

Cowgirl
Jan. 24, 2011, 09:05 PM
I showed fourth level last year under the 2007 tests and yes, I had to do a line of three time changes (three of them) and a line of four time changes (three of them). In PSG you have to do five of them.

In 2003, I showed fourth level (different horse) under the 2003 tests and had to do the same tempis, three threes and three fours. I may have even shown under the 1999 tests, and I remember the same three times and four times.

This generation of tests made it easier by taking out the three time changes and you only have to do three four times in test three.

Also you have no half pirouettes now, just working ones. Lucky you!

ETA: I did not think that 4/3 was more difficult than PSG. I still don't get why people think that--it is harder to do five tempis uphill than it is to do three. I'm glad I had that old 4/3 to prepare me.

grayarabs
Jan. 24, 2011, 11:54 PM
So is it like this for example - 22 strides letter to letter?

LLLLRLRRRRLRLLLLRLRRRR

alibi_18
Jan. 25, 2011, 12:35 AM
? What do you mean? Are you talking about the line of fours?

For F-X-H; start counting at H, L L L L 1 R R R R 2 L L L L 3 R R R R and keep going R left till H.

Maybe you should have a youtube session looking at some 4th level and PSG tests! Would help you visualized!

grayarabs
Jan. 25, 2011, 12:40 AM
Ali - no. But good idea to try to find on utube. Does anyone still have the Coth mag that listed the revisions that confused me? Or know which issue - maybe I could re-read online.

I think Equi88 wrote what I am thinking - 4L T3. Three flying changes every fourth stride. ???

alibi_18
Jan. 25, 2011, 12:45 AM
But what movement is confusing you? (the number)
Because what you wrote about the 22 strides makes no sense...

All the new tests are online.
http://www.usef.org/_iframes/breedsdisciplines/discipline/alldressage/dressagetestmov.aspx

grayarabs
Jan. 25, 2011, 01:04 AM
4L T3 - movement 25. ???

alibi_18
Jan. 25, 2011, 01:08 AM
Yeah, every four strides you have to do a flying change. You have to do it 3 times on that diagonal.
HXF or FXH that was just an exemple but works both ways the way I have put it down.... Start counting at te beginning of the diagonal canter left four strides, flying change to canter right for four strides, flying change to canter left for four strides, flying change to canter right till the other end of the diagonal. So HXF, 3 'fours'!

Me and equi88 are saying the same thing.

alibi_18
Jan. 25, 2011, 01:13 AM
here is a PSG where you can see a line of 'Fours' and then a line of 'Threes',
But since it is PSG the girl is doing 5 of each.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DTfj1yl4ME&feature=youtube_gdata_player
It is close to the end.

Cowgirl
Jan. 25, 2011, 03:49 AM
? What do you mean? Are you talking about the line of fours?

For F-X-H; start counting at H, L L L L 1 R R R R 2 L L L L 3 R R R R and keep going R left till H.

Maybe you should have a youtube session looking at some 4th level and PSG tests! Would help you visualized!

Um, if you do this, you will be doing five tempis.

LEFT CANTER from corner, start your first change about quarterline, count like this:
CHANGE R-R-R CHANGE L-L-L CHANGE

OR

CHANGE 2-3-4 CHANGE 2-3-4 CHANGE

The change counts as one of your canter strides!!

alibi_18
Jan. 25, 2011, 08:26 AM
I don't count the change as a 'stride' since it is not. The change is in the air...as in flying. My couting is correct. L L L L R R R R L L L L R R R R.

dwblover
Jan. 25, 2011, 09:41 AM
I think grayarabs is thinking you actually do 3 changes, as in LRL then keep cantering and do LRL again. That is not what they mean, they mean you will do three changes TOTAL on the diagonal line, and that each of those SINGLE changes will be done every four strides. Otherwise you would be doing a series of three one tempis every four strides, YIKES!:winkgrin:

joiedevie99
Jan. 25, 2011, 10:11 AM
All of the sequences of changes were in one test or another last time around - with the exception of 4-2, movement 20. That requires 3 single lead changes on the diagonal- with no particular spacing between them. It was meant as a step between single changes and sequence changes. You are supposed to change near the quarter line, near the center line, and near the 3/4 line- but the exact striding isn't mandated in the test so that the rider can wait for a good moment to ask for the change.

4-3, movement 25 is exactly what used to be in 4-3 - three lead changes on the diagonal (just as in 4-2), but with exactly four strides between each lead change.

They don't mean 3 lead changes every 4 strides (as in 3 1-tempis, canter 4 strides, 3 1-tempis...). They mean 3 lead changes, with one occurring every 4 canter strides.

grayarabs
Jan. 25, 2011, 05:20 PM
Dwb and Joie - yes. Now I understand.
I guess I took the "three flying changes every fourth stride" a bit too literally.

I had watched many 4th/FEI rides years ago - and did think Yikes they really are making the tests much more difficult now.

Thanks.

Bronte
Jan. 25, 2011, 07:41 PM
? What do you mean? Are you talking about the line of fours?

For F-X-H; start counting at H, L L L L 1 R R R R 2 L L L L 3 R R R R and keep going R left till H.

Maybe you should have a youtube session looking at some 4th level and PSG tests! Would help you visualized!

No that would be five tempis. On the 1/4 line change, 1,2,3change, 1,2,3 change, 1,2,3 change.

The last stride of the canter is the change.

So 3's are: 1,2 change, 1,2 change etc

2's 1, change, 1 change etc

And 1's

change, change, change.

Cowgirl
Jan. 26, 2011, 04:17 AM
No that would be five tempis. On the 1/4 line change, 1,2,3change, 1,2,3 change, 1,2,3 change.

The last stride of the canter is the change.

So 3's are: 1,2 change, 1,2 change etc

2's 1, change, 1 change etc

And 1's

change, change, change.

LOL! I already said that and was told I was wrong. Guess I got "8" on my tempis at championships doing them wrong. ;)

alibi_18
Jan. 26, 2011, 05:51 AM
LOL! I already said that and was told I was wrong. Guess I got "8" on my tempis at championships doing them wrong. ;)

I didn't say you were 'wrong'.....I said we don't count them the same...as it make more sense to me not to count the 'change' as a stride because it is not...Good for your 8's if it makes you feel good about saying it. :rolleyes:

Cowgirl
Jan. 26, 2011, 04:56 PM
I don't count the change as a 'stride' since it is not. The change is in the air...as in flying. My couting is correct. L L L L R R R R L L L L R R R R.

Uh, riiiiiiight....and where is the change in this example? You are still doing five-time changes.

yaya
Jan. 26, 2011, 05:14 PM
Uh, riiiiiiight....and where is the change in this example? You are still doing five-time changes.

The change happens after the fourth L , while in the air, then after the fourth R, while in the air, etc.

You still have to make sure there are four strides of canter, no matter what part of the sequence you call the change, the beginning or the end, or whether you count a stride as a stride or a change.

Some people count from the beginning, some count from the end. As long as there are the right number of strides between, it doesn't matter how you count it.

I kept popping 3s because I focused too much on changing on the last stride and kept coming too early. Now I make damn sure there are four strides, THEN ask for the change after I hear that fourth strike of the front leg.

So it looks on paper like I'm doing 1-2-3-4-Change, (which to you would be 5-tempis) but there are only four canter strides between changes when you see it live. Works for me.

Cowgirl
Jan. 26, 2011, 06:09 PM
The change happens after the fourth L , while in the air, then after the fourth R, while in the air, etc.

Sorry to be so nitpicky about this, but other people are reading. The change HAS to happen WITHIN the fourth L or WITHIN the fourth R, not "after" or you will be doing fives.

Here's another way of counting:
1(the first stride is the change stride)-2-3-4; 2(change)-2-3-4; 3(change)

Three time changes: CHANGE-2-3; CHANGE-2-3

Two time changes: CHANGE-2; Change-2

One time changes: Change-change-change-change.

You should think of the change as a canter stride and your canter to have all the qualities you want in the change--on the hind legs, jumpy, in all the same rhythm.

I don't know why one would start counting from the last canter stride when the counting happens from the minute you start the first change. I think you are making it too hard for yourself. JMO.

yaya
Jan. 26, 2011, 06:43 PM
It's just a matter of semantics. Your way is not the only way. Some people count 1-2-3-change, some people count change-2-3-4. Both can be correct.

Some people count strides to end when the leading front leg hits the ground. Ask for the change to happen after the front leg hits, (doesn't necessarily mean that's when you apply the aids, just when you want the change to happen) and you get the change while the legs are in the air. To me, that is between strides. You are calling it within the stride. If I think of it as within a stride, I picture a horse trying to change while legs are still on the ground, getting tangled and falling in a heap.

A lot depends also on your horse's reaction time. Some have to ask earlier than others, some have to ask later. My horse is sensitive/obedient enough that I have to ask at the last possible second, because he complies instantly.

Potato, potahto.

mjhco
Jan. 26, 2011, 06:46 PM
Sorry to be so nitpicky about this, but other people are reading. The change HAS to happen WITHIN the fourth L or WITHIN the fourth R, not "after" or you will be doing fives.

Here's another way of counting:
1(the first stride is the change stride)-2-3-4; 2(change)-2-3-4; 3(change)

Three time changes: CHANGE-2-3; CHANGE-2-3

Two time changes: CHANGE-2; Change-2

One time changes: Change-change-change-change.

You should think of the change as a canter stride and your canter to have all the qualities you want in the change--on the hind legs, jumpy, in all the same rhythm.

I don't know why one would start counting from the last canter stride when the counting happens from the minute you start the first change. I think you are making it too hard for yourself. JMO.

This is how I count them. Except sometimes it is

change, change, change, change, oh crap, change, change, change, change, oh crap, change