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DownYonder
Jan. 24, 2011, 05:51 AM
Anyone know if DR120 (helmet rule) passed?

Big Spender
Jan. 24, 2011, 09:53 AM
I believe so, because the eventers are talking about it! I always wear my helmet, so at 2nd level the rule won't change my way of going!

n2dressage
Jan. 24, 2011, 10:15 AM
Yep USEF posted on Facebook. Helmets mandatory at 4th and below and for all juniors.

yaya
Jan. 24, 2011, 11:28 AM
When does it start?

Janet
Jan. 24, 2011, 11:36 AM
I believe so, because the eventers are talking about it! I always wear my helmet, so at 2nd level the rule won't change my way of going!
Two different rule changes. One for eventing, a different one for dressage.

dwblover
Jan. 24, 2011, 11:36 AM
I am really glad this helmet rule passed. I hope the FEI will consider it in the future.

n2dressage
Jan. 24, 2011, 11:44 AM
It goes into effect March 1, 2011.

Janet
Jan. 24, 2011, 11:46 AM
When does it start?
According to THIS
http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleChanges/313-10.pdf
March 1 2011

DownYonder
Jan. 24, 2011, 01:01 PM
Yep USEF posted on Facebook. Helmets mandatory at 4th and below and for all juniors.

Good deal. Kudos to USEF!

Big Spender
Jan. 24, 2011, 01:01 PM
Two different rule changes. One for eventing, a different one for dressage.

Thanks, I do realize that, but just noticed that only the eventers have been discussing it, specifically Eventing Nation, and they had also mentioned that the Dressage rule had passed. Hope I didn't confuse anyone.

BetterOffRed
Jan. 24, 2011, 01:36 PM
so I guess the next question is...what is everyone going to do with their tophats? :lol:

Velvet
Jan. 24, 2011, 01:38 PM
Here we go. They couldn't force it down the throats of the adult hunter riders, but they force it on the adult dressage riders.

Yes, we must be protected from our ourselves. No one can be allowed to make decisions for themselves. (I do wear a helmet all the time when schooling at home, but it DO NOT want them deciding for me, an adult, if I can or cannot wear a hat rather than helmet. :mad: )

Is this legal? Can they truly pass this for adults? Interesting question for the courts to answer...

SillyHorse
Jan. 24, 2011, 01:43 PM
Here we go. They couldn't force it down the throats of the adult hunter riders, but they force it on the adult dressage riders.

Yes, we must be protected from our ourselves. No one can be allowed to make decisions for themselves. (I do wear a helmet all the time when schooling at home, but it DO NOT want them deciding for me, an adult, if I can or cannot wear a hat rather than helmet. :mad: )

Is this legal? Can they truly pass this for adults? Interesting question for the courts to answer...
They can make you wear boots and breeches (or jods) and even dictate the color restrictions for your clothing. Are you going to go to court so you can show in tennis shoes?

Velvet
Jan. 24, 2011, 01:53 PM
They can make you wear boots and breeches (or jods) and even dictate the color restrictions for your clothing. Are you going to go to court so you can show in tennis shoes?

Interesting. Has anyone ever been kicked out of a show for incorrect attire? Anyone know?

(I'm not taking them to court, I'm just saying I can see someone reaching a point where they say enough is enough, and they go to court over it. The hunters went nuts and they decided it wasn't worth the battle.)

Applecore
Jan. 24, 2011, 02:24 PM
Is this legal? Can they truly pass this for adults? Interesting question for the courts to answer...


I'm no legal expert, but I'd be shocked if the answer was anything but yes. Why wouldn't an organization be able to say "to participate in our events, for which we procure insurance, you need X for safety equipment"? It's your choice to participate in the organization's events. Is it any different than a private facility requiring that everyone wear helmets?

But even if the helmet law was much broader (say, government mandated - NOT something I'm advocating, but bear with me in the hypothetical), I imagine the arguments for the mandate would bear a lot of resemblance to the current seat belt laws. Back when states first started mandating seat belts, people were up in arms about their liberties, how could the government make these decisions for them, etc. - I'm fairly sure there were court cases on it, and it was ultimately decided it was within the state's rights. And nowadays, most everyone seems comfortable with the state being able to require seat belts, and we've seen a lot of safety improvements due to increased seat belt wearing.

arbeegirl
Jan. 24, 2011, 02:26 PM
I agree with Velvet!

Go ahead, yell at me. I wear a helmet for schooling all the time. But I like to have the choice when in the show ring and I LOVE my hunt cap look for lower level.

Now I need to go and shell out $100 or more for a show helmet. I like black velvet hats and that is complete opposite of my schooling hemet. It is blue plastic:-) And the covers do not look good on it. I used one when my horse was first showing.

Janet
Jan. 24, 2011, 02:28 PM
Is this legal? Can they truly pass this for adults? Interesting question for the courts to answer...
Of course it is. Just as the organizations that set the rules for motorcycle and car racing can mandate SNELL approved helmets for adults.

Big Spender
Jan. 24, 2011, 02:41 PM
An interesting point came up for discussion the other night at our GMO awards party, before the rule change was known. A trainer, who's farm rule is to wear helmets when mounted on the grounds, and is hosting 3 recognized shows at the farm, was told that if the USEF rule didn't pass, she couldn't do anything about enforcing the farm rule for helmets. Hypothetically, what happens if someone gets hurt at one of the shows? Farm rule is for helmets, but USEF rule-no requirement. Talk about a potential legal mess!!

Melyni
Jan. 24, 2011, 02:50 PM
I agree with Velvet!

Go ahead, yell at me. I wear a helmet for schooling all the time. But I like to have the choice when in the show ring and I LOVE my hunt cap look for lower level.

Now I need to go and shell out $100 or more for a show helmet. I like black velvet hats and that is complete opposite of my schooling hemet. It is blue plastic:-) And the covers do not look good on it. I used one when my horse was first showing.

There are plenty of velvet hunt caps with harnesses. and some are even ASTM approved.
Look into the Charles Owen hunt caps.
MW

Melyni
Jan. 24, 2011, 02:52 PM
An interesting point came up for discussion the other night at our GMO awards party, before the rule change was known. A trainer, who's farm rule is to wear helmets when mounted on the grounds, and is hosting 3 recognized shows at the farm, was told that if the USEF rule didn't pass, she couldn't do anything about enforcing the farm rule for helmets. Hypothetically, what happens if someone gets hurt at one of the shows? Farm rule is for helmets, but USEF rule-no requirement. Talk about a potential legal mess!!

and I'll bet she can enforce the helmet rule on her farm, I do on mine.
And it is driven in part by my insurance company. They will hit me with swingeing fines if I don't enforce the rule.

So if they make a big enough fuss about it. she might well decide to cancel the shows.
MW

yaya
Jan. 24, 2011, 03:06 PM
Wow, they sure don't give people much time. I forsee a lot of backorders on helmets.

Order yours now!

ToN Farm
Jan. 24, 2011, 07:21 PM
so I guess the next question is...what is everyone going to do with their tophats? :lol:
You think that's funny? I'm now stuck with two top hats (black and navy) worth 1k with no FEI horse in my future. Now I have to spend 250 or so for a stupid helmet that I will only wear two or three times a year. They can make all the rules they want, but people will still ride at home without a helmet.

Just out of curiosity, have there ever been any TBI injuries at dressage shows?

BetterOffRed
Jan. 24, 2011, 08:32 PM
You think that's funny? I'm now stuck with two top hats (black and navy) worth 1k with no FEI horse in my future. Now I have to spend 250 or so for a stupid helmet that I will only wear two or three times a year. They can make all the rules they want, but people will still ride at home without a helmet.

Just out of curiosity, have there ever been any TBI injuries at dressage shows?

Put them in storage. I wouldn't be surprised if this will end up like the whip length rule. An over reaction. It will probably get reversed in a few years. And I'm pro-helmet. I'm cool either way.

mjhco
Jan. 24, 2011, 09:01 PM
Oh heavens. I have two $450 top hats. And another $400 GREY one that I am so eager to have a grey coat to match.

Oh Well. I competed I2 last year with my ASTM VENTED helmet. It was SO much nicer in the heat of the summer.

Peggy
Jan. 24, 2011, 09:12 PM
Here we go. They couldn't force it down the throats of the adult hunter riders, but they force it on the adult dressage riders.

Yes, we must be protected from our ourselves. No one can be allowed to make decisions for themselves. (I do wear a helmet all the time when schooling at home, but it DO NOT want them deciding for me, an adult, if I can or cannot wear a hat rather than helmet. :mad: )

Is this legal? Can they truly pass this for adults? Interesting question for the courts to answer...It is a rule for adults when showing or when jumping anywhere on the show grounds so I suppose the answer is yes.

GR 801 from the 2011 USEF rulebook (http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2011/03-generalrules.pdf):

801.2 It is compulsory for riders in all Hunter, Jumper and Hunt Seat Equitation classes, and Paso Fino classes, both open and breed restricted including Hunter Hack, where jumping is required and when jumping anywhere on the competition grounds to wear properly fastened protective headgear which meets or exceeds ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials)/SEI (Safety Equipment Institute) standards for equestrian use and carries the SEI tag. It must be properly fitted with harness secured. A Show Committee must bar riders without protective headgear from entering the ring for classes in which protective headgear is required and may bar any entry or person from entering the ring if not suitably presented to appear before an audience.

801.3 3. Except as may otherwise be mandated by local law, all juniors riding in Hunter, Jumper and Hunter Seat Equitation sections, and all sub-juniors riding in the Paso Fino division, while riding anywhere on the competition grounds, must wear properly fitting protective headgear which meets or exceeds ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials)/SEI (Safety Equipment Institute) standards for equestrian use and carries the SEI tag. Harness must be secured and properly fitted. Any rider violating this rule at any time must immediately be prohibited from further riding until such headgear is properly in place.

Mary's Tack and Feed (http://www.marystack.com/) has 20% off all Charles Owen helmets at the moment for those needing to do some shopping.

dghunter
Jan. 24, 2011, 09:37 PM
It is a rule for adults when showing or when jumping anywhere on the show grounds so I suppose the answer is yes.

GR 801 from the 2011 USEF rulebook (http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2011/03-generalrules.pdf):

801.2 It is compulsory for riders in all Hunter, Jumper and Hunt Seat Equitation classes, and Paso Fino classes, both open and breed restricted including Hunter Hack, where jumping is required and when jumping anywhere on the competition grounds to wear properly fastened protective headgear which meets or exceeds ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials)/SEI (Safety Equipment Institute) standards for equestrian use and carries the SEI tag. It must be properly fitted with harness secured. A Show Committee must bar riders without protective headgear from entering the ring for classes in which protective headgear is required and may bar any entry or person from entering the ring if not suitably presented to appear before an audience.

801.3 3. Except as may otherwise be mandated by local law, all juniors riding in Hunter, Jumper and Hunter Seat Equitation sections, and all sub-juniors riding in the Paso Fino division, while riding anywhere on the competition grounds, must wear properly fitting protective headgear which meets or exceeds ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials)/SEI (Safety Equipment Institute) standards for equestrian use and carries the SEI tag. Harness must be secured and properly fitted. Any rider violating this rule at any time must immediately be prohibited from further riding until such headgear is properly in place.

Mary's Tack and Feed (http://www.marystack.com/) has 20% off all Charles Owen helmets at the moment for those needing to do some shopping.

I was starting to wonder if maybe it wasn't required for hunters even though I did hunters for years so thanks for posting this :lol::lol:

I have absolutely no problems with this. I always, always ride with a helmet and I love my CO GR8 :yes:

Applecore
Jan. 24, 2011, 10:32 PM
Just out of curiosity, have there ever been any TBI injuries at dressage shows?

I have seen one. Well, to be fair, it was 10+ years ago and I can't remember if it was a TBI or a spinal cord injury (which a helmet won't protect against). I was reading a test in an adjacent arena when a woman's horse went suddenly ballistic mid-test (word in the barns was that he'd been stung by a bee). She catapulted off, somersaulted and landed head-first into the dressage arena fence. In a top hat. Show was halted while an ambulance came in and she was taken out on a backboard. She was still in a wheelchair the next summer. It was one of several events in my mid-teenage years that shocked the immortality out of me and converted me to 'every time, every ride'.

I have to say, I am really surprised that the rule went as far as to require it for adults through 4th level. I think the "I don't want to show in my helmet" crowd didn't really realize it was a true possibility. Either that or they're a much smaller contingent than I thought. As much as I personally support the rule, I also have the hunch it will be a short lived, like another poster said. I do think having the rule in effect for shows will trickle down to schooling, etc. - if the rules stays in place, it will become the 'look'. The hunter world seems to have had a similar transformation - just a (non-approved) hunt cap looks old fashioned now.

Equibrit
Jan. 24, 2011, 10:38 PM
Now I need to go and shell out $100 or more for a show helmet. I like black velvet hats and that is complete opposite of my schooling hemet. It is blue plastic:-) And the covers do not look good on it. I used one when my horse was first showing.


Is there something wrong with an approved black velvet hunt cap ?
http://www.charlesowen.co.uk/en/products/ridinghats/list.php?p=15

Janet
Jan. 24, 2011, 11:27 PM
It is a rule for adults when showing or when jumping anywhere on the show grounds so I suppose the answer is yes.
I think Velvet's point was that the adult hunters can still wear an unapproved hunt cap WHEN WORKING SOLELY ON THE FLAT.

But in reality, you see most of the adult hunter riders wearing approved helmets all the time.

Mary in Area 1
Jan. 24, 2011, 11:58 PM
"I have to say, I am really surprised that the rule went as far as to require it for adults through 4th level. I think the "I don't want to show in my helmet" crowd didn't really realize it was a true possibility. Either that or they're a much smaller contingent than I thought."

Yes, Applecore, I think you're right. There was virtually NO opposition to the rule when discussed at the USDF convention. It was basically already decided. Out of all the participants, only one older AA man objected, and no one supported him.

I think the rule is OVERWHELMINGLY supported and will NOT be repealed. So get over it or don't show.

Peggy
Jan. 25, 2011, 12:53 AM
I think Velvet's point was that the adult hunters can still wear an unapproved hunt cap WHEN WORKING SOLELY ON THE FLAT.

But in reality, you see most of the adult hunter riders wearing approved helmets all the time.
I thought that may have been the case but it seemed like a fair amount of indignation for the "right" not to wear a helmet while hacking:).

Definitely true about virtually all the adults wearing helmets at HJ shows even while hacking. It kind of takes me by surprise when I see someone not wearing an approved helmet and then I remember the rule still permits it. Not for long I suspect.

atr
Jan. 25, 2011, 03:24 PM
It is rather fascinating how little fuss and whining there has been about this. I really thought more people would be leaping up and down.

I'd put my money on it not getting repealed, myself.

yaya
Jan. 25, 2011, 03:45 PM
I think there's not much leaping up and down because past history has shown it doesn't help any. USEF does what they want and we have to go with it, like it or not.

Capriole
Jan. 25, 2011, 07:07 PM
I think there's not much leaping up and down because past history has shown it doesn't help any. USEF does what they want and we have to go with it, like it or not.
Uh, did you miss the performance standards debacle? :lol:

I do think this rule is here to stay though.

yaya
Jan. 25, 2011, 08:14 PM
Uh, did you miss the performance standards debacle? :lol:

I do think this rule is here to stay though.

That's true. It was a surprise that they backed down on that one.

Velvet
Jan. 27, 2011, 09:37 AM
I just had a thought...

With all the rules and laws that are passed in the USA to protect people from their own stupidity, are we blocking natural selection? I mean, are we keeping the weaker ones around and allowing them to breed and pass on their weaker traits? :eek: What will this mean for the future of our country, let alone our sport. :lol:

Repeal the helmet rule and allow those who are stupid enough to take risks that are not well calculated to be removed from the gene pool! :D Let the horses be the chlorine. ;)

yaya
Jan. 27, 2011, 11:10 AM
That was my thought, too, but I was too chicken to bring it up.

Janet
Jan. 27, 2011, 11:17 AM
I just had a thought...

With all the rules and laws that are passed in the USA to protect people from their own stupidity, are we blocking natural selection? I mean, are we keeping the weaker ones around and allowing them to breed and pass on their weaker traits? :eek: What will this mean for the future of our country, let alone our sport. :lol:

Repeal the helmet rule and allow those who are stupid enough to take risks that are not well calculated to be removed from the gene pool! :D Let the horses be the chlorine. ;)

By the same argument, glasses have allowed those with bad eyesight to stay in the gene pool.

Velvet
Jan. 27, 2011, 11:20 AM
By the same argument, glasses have allowed those with bad eyesight to stay in the gene pool.

True. What would the world be like with out nearsighted and farsighted people? Hmm...

Then again, many might allow the horse to compesate for their lack of "vision" and be much better off! :D

Mardi
Jan. 27, 2011, 11:50 AM
From USEF: "While on horses that are competing only in FEI levels and tests at the Prix St. Georges level and above (including FEI Young Rider Tests, the USEF Developing Prix St. Georges Test and the USEF Brentina Cup Test), riders age 18 and over are not required to wear protective headgear in warm up or during competition. However, these riders may wear protective headgear without penalty from the judge."

Just curious about their reason for excluding this group from the new rule.
Anyone know ? (it has to be more than just about top hats....)

mjhco
Jan. 27, 2011, 12:05 PM
From USEF: "While on horses that are competing only in FEI levels and tests at the Prix St. Georges level and above (including FEI Young Rider Tests, the USEF Developing Prix St. Georges Test and the USEF Brentina Cup Test), riders age 18 and over are not required to wear protective headgear in warm up or during competition. However, these riders may wear protective headgear without penalty from the judge."

Just curious about their reason for excluding this group from the new rule.
Anyone know ? (it has to be more than just about top hats....)

FEI has its own rules.

Plus, we wanted this thing to pass. If we had said EVERYONE it would not have passed.

Janet
Jan. 27, 2011, 12:06 PM
From USEF: "While on horses that are competing only in FEI levels and tests at the Prix St. Georges level and above (including FEI Young Rider Tests, the USEF Developing Prix St. Georges Test and the USEF Brentina Cup Test), riders age 18 and over are not required to wear protective headgear in warm up or during competition. However, these riders may wear protective headgear without penalty from the judge."

Just curious about their reason for excluding this group from the new rule.
Anyone know ? (it has to be more than just about top hats....)
I assume it is because they want to run the FEI level tests under FEI rules, (which permit top hats).

Mardi
Jan. 27, 2011, 12:31 PM
Ok got it. Thanks.

Elatu
Jan. 27, 2011, 12:43 PM
Ontario Canada has it's own Provinical law which apply to all Juniors, under the age of 18 as it pertains to "horseback riding".
It requires all juniors to wear an ASTM helmet and heeled footwear.
Bummer is, the law is non-applicable to competitions.

tartanfarm
Jan. 29, 2011, 10:57 AM
Dressage Daily has posted the clarification of the helmet rule and this point puzzles me

7. When a horse is competing in both national and FEI levels or tests (e.g. Fourth Level and PSG), the rider must wear protective headgear at all times when mounted on that horse on the competition grounds and during all tests.

So if you are riding at 4th one day of the show and PSG on the next you must wear a helmet with your shadebelly? but if you just enter PSG you don't??

The other points of the rules at least consistent, but this doesn't to me.

Equibrit
Jan. 29, 2011, 11:24 AM
Helmets are mandatory at 4th level and permitted at FEI levels. You would have to say that those entering FEI+4th either HAVE to or DON"T HAVE to wear helmets. To retain the integrity of the up to 4th rule they have said HAVE TO. To enforce the helmet rule on the entire showgrounds the steward would need to identify, from a distance, any rider, required or not, to wear a helmet. No problem in the show ring, but in warm up and riding around the grounds it's a problem. Are the PSG+4th folks schooling/riding around as USEF or FEI riders. The rule above makes it a doddle. I would imagine that enforcement has insurance implications, not only for USEF but also the FEI.

From a local show management organization;

UNUSUAL DETAIL: Riders who are competing both in USEF and FEI-level tests must wear a safety helmet at all times while riding on the grounds and in competition and will not be permitted to change from the safety headgear. Because of this detail, the GHF show management will issue the FEI-only riders special bridle numbers in the 900 series for the benefit of the ring stewards who will be checking the numbers.

silence_ridewell
Feb. 4, 2011, 08:46 AM
Why stop with just dressage regarding the new helmet rule? Why not require it for all equestrian sports? How about those vaulters? They aren’t even claiming to be riders! What about when dressage is being offered at breed specific shows (i.e. Arabian, Morgan, Andalusian/Lusitano, etc.)? Are the competitors only supposed to wear helmets when they are warming up for their dangerous dressage rides? What about the claim that dressage horses represent the most highly trained horses in the competition world? Why would a rider need to wear a helmet on the most highly trained horse?

The ludicrousness of this requirement is on a par with the government telling McDonalds what to serve their customers. What has possessed USEF to implement such an inane rule? Is this new rule going to lower the insurance premiums for dressage competitions? Is this new rule going to make riding horses safer? Does this rule actually increase the liability exposure for competitions? It might actually, if one assumes wearing a helmet does indeed make the riders safer. Now, when they do get injured while riding, it must be due to management not providing a safe riding environment. The rule also requires the rider to have the harness fastened and properly adjusted. Does this mean the rider should go to the show Technical Delegate and ask them to properly adjust their helmet harness and thereby increase the show and the Technical Delegate’s liability? What about during the heat of the summer? What happens when a rider suffers heat stroke due to wearing a helmet as required?

The sad part of this is what it actually does, it silences dissidence by claiming the reason is for “safety”. No one wants to appear to be against safety. This is the same tactic politicians use when they are endorsing certain policies. For example, they say a policy to broaden governmental intrusion into people’s lives (and personal choices), such as the above mentioned McDonalds dilemma, is to protect children. No one wants to “hurt the children”.

It seems the main drive behind this decision/rule was the injury of US Dressage Olympian Courtney King-Dye. This is a case of an unfortunate accident which happened at her personal riding location. It did not happen at a competition and wearing a helmet may or may not have prevented or lessened the nature of her injuries. If one wants to hear expert testimony from doctors trained in the nature of her specific injury as to whether or not a helmet would have helped then we can have an intelligent conversation about helmets. Until then this is just a knee jerk reaction to a complex issue.

The fact of the matter is, unless USEF discloses the injury statistics for all recognized competitions and proves Dressage shows actually have a higher rate of injury, there is NO reason for this new rule. It is an adult choice to wear or not to wear a helmet and USEF unfortunately has taken a position of treating adults like children.

Equibrit
Feb. 4, 2011, 11:07 AM
The ludicrousness of this requirement is on a par with the government telling McDonalds what to serve their customers.

They do. USDA sets the standards for all fast food sold in the USA. The Government also sets standards for seatbelt use etc. etc . They do this to save fools from themselves, and other people from fools !

mjhco
Feb. 4, 2011, 11:32 AM
To Silence_ridewell.

What was the audience response when you presented your objections and arguments at the USDF and the USEF conventions? Did you get any feedback?

silence_ridewell
Feb. 4, 2011, 02:47 PM
The McDonalds reference was to fruits and vegetables in kids meals - not USDA standards or hot coffee.

As far as presenting to USEF conventions, don't go. It is my understanding there was a great deal of resistance to this and they went ahead with the rule. Don't see the point when every rider has the "right" to choose to wear a helmet if they wish at a dressage competition. Would like to see the head injury statistics to see how this was warranted....

Call me disappointed in the direction we are going

horseaholic
Feb. 5, 2011, 09:34 AM
I like the rule change. 2 comments. 1. I hope that those that make the helmets will design new styles, etc. 2. I am hoping that this is the begining of a change in attire to something more athletic and functional.

Equibrit
Feb. 5, 2011, 10:28 AM
Call me disappointed in the direction we are going

At least you stand less of a chance of being disappointed and brain damaged. (I think.)

Velvet
Feb. 5, 2011, 11:00 AM
At least you stand less of a chance of being disappointed and brain damaged. (I think.)

:lol:

spirithorse
Feb. 5, 2011, 01:28 PM
I like the rule change. 2 comments. 1. I hope that those that make the helmets will design new styles, etc. 2. I am hoping that this is the begining of a change in attire to something more athletic and functional.

Superb commentary on the current situation.

Design new helmet styles that are functional with style. And definitely switch over to attire condusive with riding....as you said "athletic and functional".