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View Full Version : Spinoff from H/J: Jumping alone?



katie+tru
Jan. 22, 2011, 03:50 PM
I'm asking of this board because I'm curious to see if eventers have a different opinion. The general opinion in HJland is that jumping alone is a necessity for most people who cannot afford/don't have time for weekly lessons.

That, for adults, is understandable. However, I still believe that you really ought to have a ground person if you plan on jumping anything bigger than crossbars or groundpoles. I also brought up the point of bad habits. Do you find it harder to become aware of and successfully break bad, engrained habits if you don't have a second party to inform and remind you?

Then the discussion turned to children jumping without coaches or even without any adult being in the ring. I am not okay with that. At all. Children do not think like adults and cannot always decide what is and isn't a good idea. They do not have adult common sense or problem solving skills if there would be an emergency. Even the most talented young rider may be a loss as to what to do if they take a bad fence and their pony is suddenly standing on three legs.

So what's the eventer take on this?

shawneeAcres
Jan. 22, 2011, 03:56 PM
I posted on the other thread and have no problem with my students jumping without an instructor present but I NEVER said children should jump "alone" without someone present! I do require that a responsible person be present when kids are jumping or even riding.

katie+tru
Jan. 22, 2011, 03:57 PM
Oh, I'm not referring to you specifically. :o I'm sorry, did you think that?

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 22, 2011, 03:59 PM
It depends on the level of the rider. I jump alone all the time. Would I LOVE to have a ground person...sure. But that isn't typically possible. I'm training my horses as much as working on my on skills. So what I jump depends on what the horse needs. With my current two...I have jumped 3'6"-3'9" with them alone.

But I'm an experienced rider and have good judgment. It is the judgement part that I think is needed when schooling alone.

For kids...I'm ok with them jumping little stuff on their own outside of a lesson if they have limits set by an experienced trainer and are reliable to stick within those limits. So some kids it will be ok..and others it will not (same with adults).

I do think kids need an adult around watching them..even if non-horsey...but experienced is even better. Even adults should have someone around if possible...but it isn't always possible. I ride early in the morning...and so someone is usually coming into the barn and would find me if necessary. If I was riding out--leaving the property--I'd leave a note as to where I was heading. When I rode at night and lived alone....it was more of a concern.

SuZQuzie
Jan. 22, 2011, 04:39 PM
Last year, I only had maybe half a dozen stadium jump lessons, with probably 3 cross country lessons. I do get four lessons a month when I'm competing, but most of those are used up on dressage, since that is where my horse and I need the constant insight. We used to compete in the low junior jumpers with 3 lessons a week when my parents were paying for them, so I feel very confident jump schooling even green horses unattended. Though it is nice to have a tune-up every now and then, so that is when I get a jump school.

Usually, I only jump in the 3' to 3'3" range and school with a more correctional purpose, but I will jump up to 3'6"-3'9" the week before a show to tune him up a bit.

AnEnglishRider
Jan. 22, 2011, 05:22 PM
If I didn't jump without a trainer or ground person I'd never jump! It would be REALLY nice to have a ground person - I wouldn't have to keep dismounting and mounting again to set jumps, lol. But it's really not possible.

I can't say there are too many times I've ever been truly "alone" though. When I rode at a barn, the owner or some member of her family was usually up at the house, and the entire ring could be seen from her back windows, so if I'd fallen and been injured it wouldn't have taken them long to see me and call someone. Where Don is now, even if the lady isn't in her house usually her non-horsey husband or son is, and I'm sure if they saw me laying on the ground, they could call 911.

Yeah, it's not ideal, but it's worked so far. We only jump about 2'6" anyway, and usually we just jump a crossrail because I'm too lazy to dismount and raise it up.

Highflyer
Jan. 22, 2011, 05:28 PM
I don't jump much with my current horse outside of lessons, but I also don't have regular access to a ring/ decent footing at home. I do trot through poles and pop over tiny logs pretty much every ride. And my horse is at the point now where he knows his job and only really NEEDS to jump every couple of weeks, so we don't do a real school without my trainer all that often.

With a green horse, I will hop over some stuff almost every day at first, and then a couple of times a week. Obviously it would be lovely to have a ground person/ jump crew/ my trainer with me at all times, but that's not going to happen, and since she's usually way too busy to watch me at events, I need to be comfortable doing it by myself anyway.

I have no problem with boarding barns having restrictions--they have to cover themselves with the insurance company, and don't have the luxury of deciding on a case by case basis. And honestly, I doubt anyone is advocating letting kids do whatever they want unsupervised, or supervised by a clueless parent. (I worked at H/J barn for a while and there was a mom who would drag her leadline kid's pony over crossrails when the trainer wasn't there. The kid was FOUR and weighed maybe 40 lbs. There was nothing holding her on but luck.) My parents had the rule about not jumping without an adult--of course, we broke it pretty regularly. We used to go out in the woods and jump all kinds of things when they weren't looking.

KMErickson
Jan. 22, 2011, 05:55 PM
Having broken my neck jump schooling at home, I feel VERY STRONGLY that having a ground person present whenever jumping is going on is a good idea. That doesn't mean only jumping during lessons (at home I only get a few lessons a summer and really enjoy my solo practices in between), but honestly it's not that difficult to corral someone with a cellphone and the ability to dial 911 to come out and watch you jump around. I'm literally thankful for my life because I had a ground-person there the day of my fall. Jumping is already risky - why up the gamble even more?

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 22, 2011, 06:19 PM
Having broken my neck jump schooling at home, I feel VERY STRONGLY that having a ground person present whenever jumping is going on is a good idea. That doesn't mean only jumping during lessons (at home I only get a few lessons a summer and really enjoy my solo practices in between), but honestly it's not that difficult to corral someone with a cellphone and the ability to dial 911 to come out and watch you jump around. I'm literally thankful for my life because I had a ground-person there the day of my fall. Jumping is already risky - why up the gamble even more?


I hear you...but depending on where/when someone rides...no, it isn't always possible. I have to be getting on my first horse at 5:30 am. There is no one that I know who will get up and be in the ring while I'm riding at that hour.

And honestly....there is a chance to break your neck every time you ride. All my major injuries were just riding on the flat...not even jumping.

eventmom
Jan. 22, 2011, 06:28 PM
We went to a jumper show this weekend. My girls had not been jumping much this winter so wanted to just do the puddle jumper division.
Anyway, my 11 year old ended up being the first to go in her division. We got to warm up in the indoor but the only place to warm up over fences was the outdoor. We hurried out there and there was a few kids jumping in the ring. She went around the perimeter of the fence and then came back and told me she could not jump her pony in that ring because the footing was frozen.
I agreed it was a bad idea and we did what we could to prepare for the round without jumping. Honestly it was just an 18 inch course anyway, and we were there just for schooling purposes. I was not too worried.
My point is that not all children are the same.
Believe it or not, some of them really do know how to take care of their mounts and do right by them.
It's wrong to lump all kids into the same mold. Just like it is wrong to lump any other cultural, religious, or ethnic people into a molds.

mg
Jan. 22, 2011, 06:43 PM
If I only jumped while in a lesson or with a ground person present, I'd only jump approx 2-3 times a year. Picking up bad habits would be my biggest worry, but I'm lucky to have been brought up with a VERY correct foundation and an instructor who trained me to identify what needed correcting on my own before she would even give her input. Other instructors find it annoying that I automatically spout off everything I need to do differently after I finish my rounds, haha :-X

TBH, I feel like I've learned a lot by jumping on my own and not depending on input from someone else (NOT saying that people who don't jump on their own are weaklings!). And when I get video taped or have pictures taken of me at shows, it doesn't look like my riding is lacking because of riding/jumping on my own. If I started looking at footage and going, "...oh god." I'd probably change my habits ;)

If I were really close to an excellent instructor so that I could take weekly jumping lessons, I probably wouldn't jump as often on my own. But that isn't the case, and it's very expensive to haul out to lessons, so I get them rarely.

mkevent
Jan. 22, 2011, 06:51 PM
I don't jump alone anymore for the reasons KMErickson stated.
I just make sure someone is either in the barn or the house when I jump and that they keep an eye out for me.

When I school at home, I am usually jumping for a very short amount of time-the rest is flatwork. Yes, I could get injured doing flatwork but it seems that the laws of physics are working against you a bit more when you're jumping than flatting.

I'm not lucky enough to have a groundsperson, but at least someone to dial 911 is the minimum requirement.

My serious jumping schools are in lessons.

Ajierene
Jan. 22, 2011, 06:54 PM
When I was in high school, we jumped outside of our lessons, but since the trainer was there all day, she was there when we were jumping, or we were in a group, even if she was up at the house. We never jumped more than 20 jumps in a session and never higher than allowed by the trainer, on that horse.

When I was competing my mare, I jumped alone all the time. I would have a lesson (stadium or cross country) at least twice a month and then would work on what I was taught. As far as having a ground person - I always go to cross country schoolings with a group, however when I am jumping at home, I do not always have someone there. I am at a low key barn with only a few boarders so it is hard to find someone to come up to the ring and watch me.

Kementari
Jan. 23, 2011, 05:41 AM
I'm in the "I'd never get to jump if I had to have someone else there" crowd. It's not that I wouldn't LIKE to have someone there - whether to provide instruction or just to call 911 - but I'm not at a big barn and I'm usually the only one there when I ride.

I ride in my helmet and vest and carry a cell phone at all times (though that would not, of course, help me if I were unconscious), and, riding a green horse, I try to take things slowly to minimize risk (and to give her positive experiences!).

I wouldn't school xc alone, though, because it's much easier to be far from help or anyone noticing on an xc course, plus, of course, the potential for injury is higher. At least in the ring, the area to look for me if someone notices a loose horse running around is much smaller!

I know my faults and bad habits, and what to do to work on them outside of lessons. I will also, once a month or so, prop my camera up on the rail and video my ride, so that I can watch it and see how we are doing and if any problems are developing that I haven't noticed. So far, watching the videos, I've been pretty much right on in how I felt the rides were going - for better or for worse! :winkgrin:

kookicat
Jan. 23, 2011, 06:45 AM
I'm another one- if I didn't jump alone, I wouldn't jump at all. I do try to be safe- wear my body protector and my XC helmet.

retreadeventer
Jan. 23, 2011, 08:02 AM
Sitting on a horse at a standstill, a rider's head is approximately 12 feet above the ground (on an average height horse). While jumping even a 2-ft. fence, the horse elevates the body 2-3 ft. (and greenies often overjump), making the brain of the rider up to, approximately, 14 to 16 feet above the ground? (Hey, lets all go jump out a second story window to see what it feels like to fall off jumping a four foot fence....)

The forces of motion on the body in a car crash at 40mph are nearly THREE TONS. 6,000 lbs. Granted, a body on a horse is not moving that fast (which is over racehorse speed), but somewhat less, perhaps 12 to 20 mph. OK, so that would mean only ONE and A HALF TONS OF FORCE applied to a head when it hits the ground.

So if you jump, you increase the risk of serious injury to the brain simply due to physics. It is scientifically more dangerous, therefore, to jump, rather than to ride on the flat, or sit on a horse at a standstill. These are the laws of physics that we know. I'm not a scientist and don't have a degree in physics, so this is somewhat generalized -- let's not get mired in minutae, you experts out there -- the point is, jumping puts your skull further from the hard ground and increases the possiblity of major damage to your brain.

I don't however have stats on the FREQUENCY of accident between flat riding and riding over jumps. You'd have to study what kind of numbers were generated in flat riding falls vs. jumping falls to be able to determine what FREQUENCY of accidents were related to each activity. (I.e., whether you were more likely to fall jumping, or on the flat). Don't know.

My point is this: jumping is more dangerous scientifically than riding on the flat. So it makes sense to have jumping a more supervised and carefully managed activity; no matter what size the jump, any time a horse hops upward and off the ground in forward motion increases that energy or force potential on the skull when it contacts an immobile object (the ground).
Just sayin' ... :)

EventingJ
Jan. 23, 2011, 08:09 AM
I DO jump outside of lessons (heck I've gone years without lessons when I couldn't afford it!) but I don't like to jump unless there is someone around in the barn - not necessarily watching me. I would jump alone - but there is also a video camera in the indoor streaming, so chances are someone would find my body in a reasonable amount of time, not that I depend on that. DH often goes to the barn with me anyways :) so between him and my two bffs I ride with there are very few times I actually ride alone.

riderboy
Jan. 23, 2011, 08:09 AM
Personally, I think it's a very bad idea to jump alone. I'm very fortunate in tha both my wife and I do it together. Last time I tried to jump alone was in our small jump field. I, of course, fell off and my horse ran back to the barn where my wife was tacking up. Scared the bejeebers out of her, since she had no idea what happened. I was OK, but...I could have been laying out in that field turning blue.

goodmorning
Jan. 23, 2011, 09:04 AM
I jump as often as I feel its needeed, usually not over 3' as I have a green horse, but I don't do it alone. When I ride alone, I always call someone - just too worried that I might fall & be alone for hours...

Janet
Jan. 23, 2011, 07:18 PM
I don't however have stats on the FREQUENCY of accident between flat riding and riding over jumps. You'd have to study what kind of numbers were generated in flat riding falls vs. jumping falls to be able to determine what FREQUENCY of accidents were related to each activity. (I.e., whether you were more likely to fall jumping, or on the flat). Don't know. I do not know the recent statistics. But a few years ago there was a CDC study.

The riding activity MOST LIKELY to put you in the emergency room was
Walking on a loose rein.

In general, their statistics showwed that jumping was NOT more dangerous than riding on the flat.

Janet
Jan. 23, 2011, 07:22 PM
My point is this: jumping is more dangerous scientifically than riding on the flat. So it makes sense to have jumping a more supervised and carefully managed activity; ... Non sequitor.

By your logic, you should never drive alone within 5 miles of your house, as that is where you are most likey to have an acident.

Or, conversly, you should never drive alone on the Interstate, because an accident at Interstate speeds is more likley to cause serious injury.

Janet
Jan. 23, 2011, 07:25 PM
During the winter, I usually jump with someone presnet, simply because I go to a local indoor to jump, usually as part of a lesson.

But during the rest of the year, I regularly jump (both in the ring and cross country) by myself.

Life is too short to wait for someone else to be there before jumping.

retreadeventer
Jan. 23, 2011, 07:47 PM
Non sequitor.

By your logic, you should never drive alone within 5 miles of your house, as that is where you are most likey to have an acident.

Or, conversly, you should never drive alone on the Interstate, because an accident at Interstate speeds is more likley to cause serious injury.

No, Janet, that logic does not follow. Jumping is more dangerous because of certain conditions that physically make it more dangerous. Not statistically more dangerous. As I said, I don't know about statistics regarding falls from riding one way or another. Your reference to accidents at home, or on interstate speeds also does not follow, since both are statistical and not physical. One doesn't stop driving because of the statistical probability of an accident, but one would certainly use common sense about watching your speed on interstates, (since higher speeds risk more serious accidents) and buckling the seatbelt for a quick trip to the corner grocery store, for instance. You don't want to go against the odds any more than you have to.

I am only talking about the physical height of the brain being increased while jumping a horse, increasing possible negative impact, and thus making jumping a more dangerous activity. It makes common sense that jumping should be a more carefully planned part of one's riding, (since higher heights risk more serious brain injury) in either adults or kids. I know many people who jump on their own and could care less, and all I am saying is, when you look at the physics -- it would be prudent to take some extra precautions -- making sure someone is around, arranging for instruction or supervision, riding with a buddy, etc. Just. Common. Sense.

riderboy
Jan. 23, 2011, 07:55 PM
Non sequitor.

By your logic, you should never drive alone within 5 miles of your house, as that is where you are most likey to have an acident.

Or, conversly, you should never drive alone on the Interstate, because an accident at Interstate speeds is more likley to cause serious injury.

I think you're comparing apples and oranges. Jumping certainly is more hazardous than flat work, not that flatwork is completely safe. The whole point of having another person is to number one, help you with your jumping, but number two help you if you fall and are injured. If knocked unconscious face down in sand or mud, or you just are unable to summon assistance when you may be bleeding internally or a million other things that might require immediate assistance. Personally, I just don't think it's a good idea, but that's just my .02 worth. Lots of people do it.

elizabeth Callahan
Jan. 23, 2011, 08:13 PM
I used to think nothing of it - but the current baby I have overjumps and then can drop her shoulder in 1 stride . I've come off of her twice this year ( over 2 ft fences) and I have become a lot more cautious.
I try to have my husband watch from the house ( but if there is sports on TV, I might as well be alone, since he becomes mesmerized for hours...)
I'd love to have a ground person but it is good mounting practice for the baby...

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 23, 2011, 08:20 PM
I think you're comparing apples and oranges. Jumping certainly is more hazardous than flat work, not that flatwork is completely safe. The whole point of having another person is to number one, help you with your jumping, but number two help you if you fall and are injured. If knocked unconscious face down in sand or mud, or you just are unable to summon assistance when you may be bleeding internally or a million other things that might require immediate assistance. Personally, I just don't think it's a good idea, but that's just my .02 worth. Lots of people do it.

Actually...I think you and Retred are not quite getting the point. Of course jumping is dangerous. The point Janet was making and I was making was the EVERY time you swing your leg over the back of a horse there is a risk of very serious injury.

I've been hospitalized for a week....and to the emergency room several times in my 30+ years of riding. I wasn't jumping for any of those injuries.

Janet was pointing out that statistically...most riding related injuries are NOT from jumping. This doesn't mean jumping is safer....just not statistically what causes injury. Just riding a horse is the biggest risk.

If you want and can have someone with you when jumping...that is fantastic. But to follow the logic...since ALL riding is potentially dangerous...you should ALWAYS have someone with you. That is the most common sense....but not always practically possible for many of us.

For me...while I'd love to have someone there...it just is not possible. I do what I can to minimize the risk (and it is one of the reasons I ride early in the morning instead of late at night). But I don't kid myself....I'm at risk any time I swing my leg over my horse's back...whether I'm jumping or not.

VicariousRider
Jan. 23, 2011, 08:45 PM
IMO I don't think kids should ever ride without an adult in the vicinity (ex: inside the house when the child is riding around the fields but keeping an eye out for them). I also don't think that they should ever ride without a helmet.

Adults are free to take bigger risks at their own expense, but children should be taught to respect the danger of our sport from day 1.

I always wanted to ride in a hunt cap when I showed on the AA circuit as a teen. My mother said I could do whatever I wanted once I turned 18. BEST DECISION EVER... because by 18 I knew better and had seen enough brain damage to make the smart choice.

riderboy
Jan. 23, 2011, 09:05 PM
Actually...I think you and Retred are not quite getting the point. Of course jumping is dangerous. The point Janet was making and I was making was the EVERY time you swing your leg over the back of a horse there is a risk of very serious injury.

I've been hospitalized for a week....and to the emergency room several times in my 30+ years of riding. I wasn't jumping for any of those injuries.

Janet was pointing out that statistically...most riding related injuries are NOT from jumping. This doesn't mean jumping is safer....just not statistically what causes injury. Just riding a horse is the biggest risk.

.

Mark Twain said there are liars, damn liars and then there are statistics. I'd like to see the stats specific to riders who jump and do flat work. What is the sample population of the stats, all riders? If so, then since most riders (western, etc) don't jump all of their injuries are going to be non-jumping and would skew the data. . In contrast to you, ALL of my injuries and my wife's injuries are jumping related as are the vast majority of admittedly anecdotal injuries I know of. . Of course it's unsafe to ride a horse. It's just common sense to have a ground person if you can have one.

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 23, 2011, 09:20 PM
Of course it's unsafe to ride a horse. It's just common sense to have a ground person if you can have one.


That's a given. But to the OP's question was did we think one could jump alone (with a tint to not just having a ground person but being in a lesson)...some people don't think you should ever jump outside a lesson.

I'm one that will jump alone...but of course if I could have a ground person I would. Some people will never jump without a ground person...and that is their choice. I do agree kids should always have an adult keeping an eye on them but I don't think they always need to be in a lesson to jump (depending on the kid of course). And just note, while I do train on my own. I'm inherently a bit lazy...and do not push myself or my horse like I will in a lesson.

As for the statistics...can't help you there. I just know my own (and my friends--who also mostly are not jumping related)......but it wouldn't be the first time I've been a statistical anomaly;)

mg
Jan. 23, 2011, 09:23 PM
I don't think it really matters whether or not jumping is more dangerous than flatwork. For those of you who feel that the risks of jumping outweigh the risks of flatwork enough that you do not feel comfortable jumping without a ground person present, that is your prerogative. I don't see anyone here saying it's stupid to only jump with someone else around. From the sounds of it, the majority (or all) of the people here who jump alone do it because they don't have the *availability* of a ground person, not because they refuse to have one. ;)

retreadeventer
Jan. 23, 2011, 09:36 PM
I know, I don't know where one would find them. And you know, there is jumping obstacles and there is jumping shadows and jumping because a horse spooks -- the horse does the same sort of action, jumping up and forward, and the rider's head hits the same way -- whether or not an obstacle is a part of it. A ton and a half on your skull.

I just really like Bornfree and Janet and wish they wouldn't jump alone! Please have a buddy around.

riderboy
Jan. 23, 2011, 09:42 PM
That's a given. But to the OP's question was did we think one could jump alone (with a tint to not just having a ground person but being in a lesson)...some people don't think you should ever jump outside a lesson.

I'm one that will jump alone...but of course if I could have a ground person I would. Some people will never jump without a ground person...and that is their choice. I do agree kids should always have an adult keeping an eye on them but I don't think they always need to be in a lesson to jump (depending on the kid of course). And just note, while I do train on my own. I'm inherently a bit lazy...and do not push myself or my horse like I will in a lesson.

As for the statistics...can't help you there. I just know my own (and my friends--who also mostly are not jumping related)......but it wouldn't be the first time I've been a statistical anomaly;)
Just be careful out there!

JER
Jan. 23, 2011, 10:01 PM
From an EMS perspective, riding on the flat and riding over fences are quite similar. Neither meets trauma center criteria in case of an accident -- more specifically, your rate of speed is too low and you're never far enough off the ground.

I'll have to hunt around for the stats but among the more risky things you can do with a horse is to turn it out in a group or to venture into a turn-out area to bring in a horse.

KBG Eventer
Jan. 23, 2011, 11:58 PM
Unfortunately, I have to jump alone most of the time in terms of having a trainer/lesson. There aren't any event trainers here, and mine is 3.5 hours away.

I usually have a groundsperson or at least someone else on the property so I'm not completely alone. When I was younger, I would jump on my own, but my parents were usually watching me.

Beam Me Up
Jan. 24, 2011, 12:07 AM
I do in some circumstances, depending.

I wish I could have a lesson every time I jumped, but unfortunately my lessons are less frequent than that.

I prefer to have a ground person around (sometimes a fellow rider who can offer pointers, but more often just someone to look outside every 5 min and confirm that I am alive and still on the horse).

I really only worry about injury, pointers are nice, but I've managed to grow my bad habits for years, and know well what they are, so I don't think unsupervised sessions will develop new ones.

For me, I guess it's a sliding scale of risk, for all my horse activities. In an ideal world, someone would be home every time I handled the horses, just in case. Unfortunately that isn't possible, I keep them at home, have a boarder with her own schedule constraints and an SO that travels frequently, so to keep them fed/ridden I do spend a lot of time with them alone. There are circumstances in which I do wait for a ground person, or boarder (if I am having trouble with a horse out hacking and would feel better with a trail buddy, or jumping one having an issue, or riding a new horse OTT). Similarly, I am more likely to jump or hack alone if someone is planning to be at the property later that day, rather than being there alone for days.

It's a compromise and I try to consider the relative safety of each ride, and whether it can/should wait for an audience.

FWIW my worst horse injury involved hand walking a (drugged) horse, alone at a boarding facility. You just never know . . .

ottb
Jan. 24, 2011, 08:11 AM
I can't say I never jump alone, but I try my darndest to have someone around in the event something happens. I may have gotten more conservative in my old age... but I have visions of me lying on the ground unconscious with my horse careening around the ring. Ironically I have yet to have anyone call me conservative when it comes to riding. I don't come off very often, but I think flukey stuff can happen when schooling. Plus it's really nice to have a ground person to adjust rails etc. It's a pain to continue to mount and dismount to change fences.

LookinSouth
Jan. 24, 2011, 08:37 AM
I rarely have a groundsperson when I jump both stadium and XC, but I am not jumping big fences. If I am going to be doing anything more than 2'3ish I usually have a friend with me who is also riding. I used to trail ride all the time alone with no one at the house and never let my husband (who would be at work) know I was heading out for a ride. In retrospect that was rather stupid on my part.

Now if I am completely alone at the barn I call my husband and tell him I am getting on and approx. what time I expect to get off. If he doesnt' hear from me he knows to send someone to check on me at the barn.

If I waited for a lesson or groundsperson to jump I would jump rather infrequently.

jackalini
Jan. 24, 2011, 10:05 AM
I lesson once a week, over fences, but I do jump typically once more in a week outside of lessons.

I try to jump when there are others at the barn (so not supervised but not alone), but that's not always possible. I am one of the few adults with a non-horsey job who shows and doesn't have my horse in training, so I have to make it out there, after work, on at least 3 weekday evenings. Depending on the weather and weekend plans, I may need to do my mini-jump school on one of those nights when there may or may not be someone there.

I will only school up to 3' and simple gymnastics when alone, leaving the bigger fences and more complicated scenarios to times when I have someone around.

Not ideal, but neither is working 8-6 when I'd rather be riding. I try to keep it as safe as possible given a variety of factors I have to accomodate.

katie+tru
Jan. 24, 2011, 10:06 AM
I think another situation we need to consider is whether or not you are riding your own horse. Do you jump alone or with a groundperson when you are riding someone else's horse? See, I've ridden a lot of horses that aren't mine. Infact, the horse I am jumping the most right now is not mine and his owner is out of state. So I feel it is 100% acceptable for my trainer to bar me from jumping him when she is not out there instructing me to do so. I am allowed to ride him on the flat as much as I want when I'm alone, but jumping is absolutely a no-no.

Honestly, I feel like her restricting me from doing potentially hazardous things when totally alone in the barn is just an act of love. She knows I'm all alone and she's up at the house totally unable to see or hear anything from the barn. I am over 30 miles from home when I'm there and I have no horsie friends or family to take with me in the evening. She just doesn't want me to get hurt to cause damage to otherwise healthy, talented horses, especially ones that don't belong to me or her.

LookinSouth
Jan. 24, 2011, 10:36 AM
I think another situation we need to consider is whether or not you are riding your own horse. Do you jump alone or with a groundperson when you are riding someone else's horse? .

Good point. I don't jump other horses besides my own without a groundsperson or at the very least the owner present.
When my horse was being ridden by a friend while I was out of commission after having a c-section this fall I told her I wasn't comfortable with her jumping my horse unless I was there so she didn't jump. That's pretty much the case with anyone riding my horse when I am not there. No jumping period.


I don't want to be liable for someone else getting hurt while jumping my horse and I don't want to worry about him getting overjumped either.

Trixie
Jan. 24, 2011, 10:58 AM
but honestly it's not that difficult to corral someone with a cellphone and the ability to dial 911 to come out and watch you jump around. I'm literally thankful for my life because I had a ground-person there the day of my fall. Jumping is already risky - why up the gamble even more?


Actually for me, it IS that difficult. Barn is about an hour from the house. Barn is private, only 4 of us are ever AT the barn, at different times. BF works, all the time, and is in school the rest of the time. No one is going to drive an hour to supervise me riding. So I’m pretty much forced to just call or text someone when I get on.

At the other barn I’m at, sometimes people are around, sometimes they aren’t. The barn manager requests I text her when I’m done, or she’ll come down to check in on me, since she lives on the property but out of view of the arena.


I don't however have stats on the FREQUENCY of accident between flat riding and riding over jumps. You'd have to study what kind of numbers were generated in flat riding falls vs. jumping falls to be able to determine what FREQUENCY of accidents were related to each activity. (I.e., whether you were more likely to fall jumping, or on the flat). Don't know.

My point is this: jumping is more dangerous scientifically than riding on the flat.

So you just said that you don’t know, and then made a blanket statement based on that?

I’m much more inclined to agree with Janet. While in a perfect world, we’d all have a groundsperson with EMS training, life doesn’t really work like that. I’ve seen someone get majorly injured at a WALK. I’ve also seen people who’ve gotten major head trauma from short-distance falls, and people who have fallen pretty far and been okay. Riding is risky – period. If you can find the data on which is more dangerous, I would love to see that.

Katie, I have been given permission to jump around horses that weren’t mine while alone, plenty of times. That being said, when I am jumping by myself, I step it down a little from the level I’m lessoning and showing at, try to use common sense, and keep in contact via cell phone.

Janet
Jan. 24, 2011, 11:29 AM
but honestly it's not that difficult to corral someone with a cellphone and the ability to dial 911 to come out and watch you jump around.

I do not know what world you live in that there are people at your beck and call willing to drop everything to "come out and watch you jump around"

If my husband is home, he is doing his own activities. He cares what happens to me, and he will sometimes watch out the window. But he wouldn't stay happy if I pressured him to stop what he was doing every time I was going to jump. Somethning special- like the first time I jump a baby, sure. But not every time.

My sister lives close by, but the probability that she is "not busy" when I happen to want to jump is slim to none. And neither of us would be happy if the other called and asked us to "come out and watch me jump around".

In fact, while we sometimes go on a hack together, each of us prefers doing our serious riding alone.

The only other people I can think of would want to be paid, and then it might as well be a lesson.

sdfarm
Jan. 24, 2011, 01:31 PM
I do not know the recent statistics. But a few years ago there was a CDC study.

The riding activity MOST LIKELY to put you in the emergency room was
Walking on a loose rein.

In general, their statistics showwed that jumping was NOT more dangerous than riding on the flat.

I have had three severe accidents due to falls in my life. All three were walking on a loose rein. One bolt, one spook, one I don't have any memory of what happened:lol:

That said, if I didn't jump alone, I would only get to jump on my schedule. My only chance of riding with others is usually on the weekend.

Oberon13
Jan. 24, 2011, 03:27 PM
Personally, I don't even ride if there isn't another person on the farm. I know that having a person there won't keep me on the horse and that no one can "catch" me or make it better...but, in serious trauma, seconds count. So, if there's someone at least on the property who knows I'm going to ride, I feel better.

That said, I don't like jumping alone. I've jumped alone for two years, and it has caused me to develop some bad habits that a ground person would have caught early on. And, it's not like I have set up something formal or anything. I just ask a friend when she's going to ride and then ask if we can ride together. Luckily, I have several at the barn who are working on a lot of the same things I am. I realize that's not possible for everyone...it's just my two cents.

KMErickson
Jan. 24, 2011, 04:59 PM
I do not know what world you live in that there are people at your beck and call willing to drop everything to "come out and watch you jump around"



Excuse me, but you're being rather rude. I ride out of a backyard barn with very few people around and often have to work around a crazy schedule of my own. I do not have people "at my beck and call" and I absolutely understand how difficult it can be sometimes because I've been there myself. But, I am willing to wait to jump until I can find someone who will be agree to be there with me. I don't ask them to set jumps for me; often it's a friend who uses the field to walk their dog or something so at least they can get something out of it as well. I am EXTREMELY grateful for the time these people give me, and make that well known to them. This is my personal policy and I honestly believe that it saved my life; I really don't think I should be attacked with insinuations that I'm an entitled brat because of that.

Trixie
Jan. 24, 2011, 05:07 PM
KMEricksen, before you go calling Janet rude, you did say that that it's "not that difficult" to get someone to come out. You're very lucky if that is the case, but it reads as if the rest of us should certainly be able to do things the way that you do.

And really? That may well be true for you, but it's certainly not for me - the vast majority of my friends don't want to sit in the car for several hours to come spend time in a barn yard, particularly while I'm focused on something other than their company.

It's enough of a stretch for ME to get out there on a frequent enough basis to keep my jumper fit, working as much as I do + the commute. I can't expect anyone else to do the same when it's not their sport.

Also this?


I really don't think I should be attacked with insinuations that I'm an entitled brat because of that.

Might be in your head.

Janet
Jan. 24, 2011, 05:23 PM
You are the one who said "but honestly it's not that difficult to corral someone with a cellphone and the ability to dial 911 to come out and watch you jump around."


If I can "corral" someone when I want to jump, they are indeed at my "beck and call"

If that is true, then you do indeed live I a different world form the one I live in.

I never suggested you were "entitled" or a "brat".

Just the you live in a different world from those of us who keep our horses at home. What is perfectly reasonable for you is out of the question for me.

Now it appears you are saying "I wait until someone happens to be around before I jump", which is VERY DIFFERENT from "corralling someone" to watch.

But in MY world, even that isn't going to happen. If I waited until someone "happened to be there" when I was riding, to jump- I'd be waiting at LEAST a year.

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Jan. 25, 2011, 07:08 PM
I'm not your regular hardcore eventer :), just a dressage rider who wants to do BN eventing for the entertainment and overall development of her young horse and herself. So no, you won't find me jumping anything by myself. Not anytime soon anyway. :)