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View Full Version : Save the Traditional "With Steeplechase" 3-Day Event Petition -- 12/29 update!!



tle
Nov. 4, 2004, 07:42 AM
The subject petition is now online and available. Please spread the word.

(And just because I opted to include City/State does NOT mean our international folks can't sign!! Anyone can sign it!!)

http://www.petitiononline.com/ABCDCCI/petition.html

(edited to change title for the latest petition update on page 8)

tle
Nov. 4, 2004, 07:42 AM
The subject petition is now online and available. Please spread the word.

(And just because I opted to include City/State does NOT mean our international folks can't sign!! Anyone can sign it!!)

http://www.petitiononline.com/ABCDCCI/petition.html

(edited to change title for the latest petition update on page 8)

eventer4ever
Nov. 4, 2004, 07:46 AM
I just signed it!

I was the second on to do so!

Thanks!

SBH
Nov. 4, 2004, 07:58 AM
I signed the petition and will email all of my friends to do the same!!! Thanks TLE!

tle
Nov. 4, 2004, 08:06 AM
The petition has only been up a few minutes and we have almost 20 signatures!! Spread the word!!!

JSwan
Nov. 4, 2004, 08:07 AM
I signed it - and then my wonderful husband came up behind me, read the petition over my shoulder, and insisted on signing it too.

Now I have to order my T shirts and sweatshirts!

Thanks!

tecumsea
Nov. 4, 2004, 09:13 AM
Just signed my name. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Lionheart
Nov. 4, 2004, 10:53 AM
excellent, thanks for making that for us to sign!

ExclusiveKiss
Nov. 4, 2004, 11:15 AM
is anyone else having problems getting the petition to load???

Duramax
Nov. 4, 2004, 11:26 AM
I'm having trouble getting it to load too. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

fanfayre
Nov. 4, 2004, 01:42 PM
No problem loading it, and I've signed it too!

tle
Nov. 4, 2004, 04:20 PM
If you're having trouble getting the petition to load and want to sign it, I can help. PT me and we can work something out as it comes up just fine for me.

Over 100 signatures already just today!! Keep spreading the word!

Speaking of spreading the word... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif ... I just sent an email with the link to the petition and the cafepress items to a few friends and thought I'd include a few "others" on that To: line, including ---
<LI> Jo, Judi and all the "directors" at USEA;
<LI> David O'Connor, John Long, Lori Rawls and Victoria Nahorniak (President, CEO, Executive Director and Eventing Sports Manager, respectively) at the USEF;
<LI>and Jim Wolf at the USET. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Figured they might as well see it too. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Oh and Mark Phillips is getting a copy as well (if the email addy is still current). http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

barbaraG
Nov. 4, 2004, 05:22 PM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

I did it!!

BarbaraG
GWV

fooler
Nov. 4, 2004, 05:55 PM
In case you have not viewed signatures, Katherine Lindsey and Jane Atkinson have both signed. . .

Pol
Nov. 5, 2004, 06:43 AM
I keep getting an error page when I go to see the signatures. Any advice?

tle
Nov. 5, 2004, 06:46 AM
I'm getting it too. I'll see if I can contact them and find out what is going on. HOpefully it's still letting people sign!

FWIW, I "heard" that if they insist Rolex only run the modified format, that Jane has said she's "done". If that's true -- GO JANE!!! It's wonderful to have that kind of support from someone running the only US CCI****. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

emf
Nov. 5, 2004, 11:32 AM
I tried and got an error message too! As soon as it's fixed, I'll forward to friends.

Why is it not also addressed to the FEI?

tle
Nov. 5, 2004, 11:47 AM
I'll keep trying to find out what the problem is... although everything I'm trying is bouncing. But I can't even get their main page to come up... so something must obviously be amiss.

emf... it was thought that because PEOPLE are members of the national federation but NFs are the members of the FEI, that it would be best to start by addressing the NF (USEF/USEA).

tle
Nov. 5, 2004, 01:29 PM
We're back online!!!! Go sign... go spread the word... Go EVENTING!!

LLDM
Nov. 5, 2004, 04:00 PM
Nice job and well done, tle. I just looked and you were at 196!

I'm sure it's just the thing to send to the convention. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I really hope it works for you guys. It should cetainly get their attention! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SCFarm

goodymar1188
Nov. 5, 2004, 05:30 PM
I was #204.

tbpalsx2
Nov. 5, 2004, 06:13 PM
Interesting comments from Jack Pollard about the change in format at Fairhill. Here's a link

http://www.eventingetc.com/2004/oct_dec/reports/report_letters_editorial.htm

I will be interested to see which top riders sign this petition. Hmmmm?

slp2
Nov. 5, 2004, 09:08 PM
I'm also interested to see. One of my ponderings is about David O'Connor. I was watching the tape of the Athen Olympics the other night. Anyway--during the team showjumping--David was one of the commentators. He did discuss the "changes in the sport" and stated that he thought it was good for the sport. This was before the end of the competition and I know someone said earlier that he had said it wasnt' "any safer" than Sydney--so perhaps he changed his mind later. But he did have a comment about the lack of the endurance phase and endorsed it (in my mind). So, I'm just wondering where he stands (really) on this issue.

tle
Nov. 6, 2004, 06:47 AM
Thanks for the link. Just sent Cora an email with the petition link in it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I also think it will be interesting to see how many upper level "names" sign the petition. I hope quite a few, but I can understand their reluctance as well (for the same reason to enter a modified division now that the powers have said to if they want to be considered for teams). David has actually 2 copies of the link -- one in his USEF mailbox and one in his home mailbox... so even if he doesn't sign, he is aware!

Hey... any chance any of the organizers here would consider forwarding the address of the petition to the orgs e-mail list?? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JSwan
Nov. 6, 2004, 08:36 AM
Why can't I read who has signed?

tle
Nov. 6, 2004, 06:33 PM
Hmmm... I don't know. I'll take a look on Monday when I'm at a better connection. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Keep the signatures coming guys!! we're at 300!!

However, PLEASE remember this is a REAL petition that will be going to USEA and USEF in order for us to make a REAL and positive change (or in this case, block a real and NEGATIVE change)... which means that as much as I would love to have the numbers, the signatures HAVE to be real as well -- with REAL full names and at least a state for location I would think. I saw one that is a BB handle with "xxx" for the location... thank you for your support, whomever you are, but we really need REAL full names.

Keep spreading the word!!

Dini1
Nov. 6, 2004, 07:09 PM
I just signed it! I was 305.

tbpalsx2
Nov. 6, 2004, 11:14 PM
TLhttp://www.eventingnewsusa.com/submit/


TLE another link for you to post the pettion information

tbpalsx2
Nov. 6, 2004, 11:18 PM
Oops that is petition information and the link is: http://www.eventingnewsusa.com/submit/

deltawave
Nov. 7, 2004, 07:04 AM
Hey! Jimmy Wofford and Denny Emerson signed it! Woohoo! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ss3777
Nov. 7, 2004, 04:12 PM
Done deal, form this upstate newyorkerhttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

bigdreamer
Nov. 7, 2004, 04:54 PM
is there any way to put a link from the petition to the cafepress web site with the shop? just wondering http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

tle
Nov. 8, 2004, 07:19 AM
I don't think so because that would constitute "changing the petition". Once it's sent in, you can't change it (otherwise, people would change petitions after people started signing them).

Over 400 now!! Keep 'em coming! Anyone you can think of -- riders, grooms, spectators, volunteers, parents, SOs, owners... if they enjoy eventing, they should know what's happening (and hopefully will agree that the change is NOT a good thing).

Pol
Nov. 8, 2004, 08:21 AM
As you send this petition around, I think it helps to send Denny's Between Rounds commentary along with it. Maybe Jack's note to Cora should go too....Also, if you write comments as you vote, please proof read before you click. Statements are much more powerful if well written, with proper spelling and punctuation!

tle
Nov. 8, 2004, 08:11 PM
Great thoughts Pol!

So... 499 signed... who will be #500? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl
Nov. 9, 2004, 05:54 AM
FWIW, both times I've tried to sign, it's been "down for upgrades" Does this happen at any predictable time, or only when I try to sign??

tle
Nov. 9, 2004, 06:12 AM
Not sure. This is the first petition I've had going. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Keep trying (or let me know your info and I'll keep trying for you).

Sammy's Mom
Nov. 9, 2004, 06:25 AM
Just tried to sign and it was "Down for upgrades." Will try again later http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

eventamy
Nov. 9, 2004, 06:56 AM
Still down for upgrades! I hope we can still sign.

cinnabar
Nov. 9, 2004, 07:02 AM
I tried to sign last week and again today. Still no luck.

Heather
Nov. 9, 2004, 07:04 AM
I tried to sign for Mr. heather and myself, down for upgrades. But I blew a wad on shirts and things for ourselves and for gifts for others, so that may have to do for now, LOL.

eventamy
Nov. 9, 2004, 11:13 AM
Was just able to do it, it's back up

Dezi
Nov. 9, 2004, 12:59 PM
I just tried, and it is back down. Where's the fruitbat????

Tom King
Nov. 9, 2004, 05:08 PM
If anyone is able to get on please add my name. I've tried for several days now and I get an error page that locks up my computer to the point where I have to reboot.

tle, The same thing happened when I tried to PT you??????????

tecumsea
Nov. 9, 2004, 05:22 PM
For all those who can not get on the web, if you are not able to try and try again you can pt me and I will be willing to add names if tle does not have time. I could use the extra hours at work&gt; http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif No really, I will be there for work !!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Laurel&HollyFarm
Nov. 9, 2004, 05:37 PM
Tom, I have got on each time that I tried. Must be my software versions or something. Email me your email address, City, State, and whether you are a member of USEA or USEF and I will post for you. My private email is tboger@piedmont.net.

Dezi
Nov. 10, 2004, 07:36 AM
Well, it just worked for me, no. 698!!

DMK
Nov. 10, 2004, 07:50 AM
tle, why not add the link on Off Course? There are plenty of us who don't event (or don't visit the eventing forum http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ), but still have an interest in the format. (#701 here)

tle
Nov. 10, 2004, 08:09 AM
Already did when the petition was created... just need to keep bumping it up (and haven't yet today -- thanks for the reminder).

tle
Nov. 10, 2004, 08:38 AM
WOOHOO!! Thanks Erin!! I had just posted a reply/bump in Off Course and when I came back to check, the thread was a Sticky at the top!! Other sites have refused this request as they didn't want to seem "biased" or like they actually supported the cause or something like that. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif To each their own, but I want to say thanks to both COTH and Erin. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Pol
Nov. 11, 2004, 09:32 AM
posted Nov. 04, 2004 09:42 AM
The subject petition is now online and available. Please spread the word.
(And just because I opted to include City/State does NOT mean our international folks can't sign!! Anyone can sign it!!)
http://www.petitiononline.com/ABCDCCI/petition.html
Giving a little bump to keep this on the front page. Keep signing, gang,, but please, just sign once!

Janet
Nov. 11, 2004, 11:30 AM
Gillian suggested
"Perhaps you should have a section in the petition for "highest level
ridden"?" but I think it is too late to change the format.

But we COULD ask anyone who has ridden a CCI to indicate that in the comments field.

tle
Nov. 11, 2004, 01:16 PM
Yes, it's too late to change the petition itself... which I understand -- I wouldnt' want any petition I sign to change AFTER I'd signed it.

BTW... we're up to 882 signatures.. I would dearly love to see 1000 within a week (which is tomorrow morning if you dont' discount the at least 24 hours it's been down in that time). Nice to see some upper level support from Canada! Definitely not limited to JUST US competitors even if the first stop is the USEA convention. Pol are you taking it and speaking for us there? I can probably make the pertinent sessions at the USEF meeting in Louisville but there's no way as much as I want to that I can afford to make it to San Francisco.

Pol
Nov. 12, 2004, 08:22 AM
tle! I just fell out of my chair at the very thought of speaking to the USEA convention...I will not be able to go to the convention this year. Our Area 1 meeting is tomorrow and I can't do that EITHER! I am just no good. Bummer, tho, this is actually a subject I COULD talk about from a soap box!

tle
Nov. 12, 2004, 08:54 AM
No problem Pol. Hope you didn't hurt yourself when you fell out of your chair! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Heather? Janet? Robby? Any or all of you interested in taking this to the USEA convention?

for those who have local and area meetings before the national convention -- any thoughts to printing out the main page of the petition and getting hard signatures at your meetings?? If you get email addresses, you can plug them into the online petition. If not, we can hold on to them... maybe make a copy to send with the petition to the conventions. What do you think?

Janet
Nov. 12, 2004, 09:03 AM
I'll be at tehe Area II meeting, and at the USEA meeting.

Let me know what you want me to do.

Janet

Heather
Nov. 12, 2004, 09:16 AM
I will also be in San Francisco.

tle
Nov. 12, 2004, 12:02 PM
990.... 991.... 992... 993...

Come on 1000!! (of course I won't be satisfied with JUST 1000, but that is definitely the next milestone!)

tle
Nov. 12, 2004, 12:20 PM
Janet (and anyone else going to an Area or local association meeting) -- SPREAD THE WORD! Make people aware that we are trying to organize into a single voice so we can be heard loud and clear. Copy the petition message and collect signatures if you can. Gather information from people who might be "in the know" on why the short format is getting so much support or if there is any PROOF available that supports the traditional format. Talk to the leaders and inform them of what we are doing, how many of us there are, and what we want.

(FWIW, I do agree that we should leave the conspiracy theory ideas out of the arguments as there is no SOLID proof to uphold it).


As for the national convention -- I feel a representative of this cause needs to be at some of the key meetings to not only hear what is being said, but to speak up and make our "voice" be heard (with copies of the petition and signatures). These key meetings IMO include:

<LI>the USEF Eventing Committee -- Thursday 7:30-10am
<LI>Area Rider Representatives Forum -- Thursday noon-1:30
<LI>USEF Active Athletes -- thursday 1:30-3:30
<LI>USEA Open Forum -- I believe this very topic is planned to be brought up here!! -- Thursday 3:30-6pm
<LI>Membership Open Forum -- Friday 8-9am
<LI>BoG Meeting - Friday 11am-1pm
<LI>Adult Rider Forum - Saturday 7:30-8:30am
<LI>Jr/Young Rider forum - Saturday 9-10am
<LI>Strategic Overview Committee forum -- 9:30-10:30am
<LI>USEA Annual Meeting & Look Back at Athens -- Saturday 2-5pm
<LI>BoG Open meeting -- Sunday 8-11am
<LI>Any of the receptions/dinners/etc where the leaders of our sport (O'connor, Phillips, Severson, Haller, Penniman, etc) can be found and you can talk to them!

Other non-key meetings to participate in might include:
<LI>Area Chair's Committee -- Thursday 10am - noon
<LI>USEA Safety Committee Forum -- Thursday 1-2
<LI>USEA Competitions Committee -- friday 7-9am
<LI>Affiliate Eventing Associations Forum - friday 4-5:30pm

That's a lot and I certainly don't expect 1 person to attend all of these! But I would love to hear about how several people, donned in "Save the 3-Day" apparel (sp?) were found all over the convention and how every time people turned around they were hearing about how imperative it is that the membership stand up and get our leadership to take a stand for the traditional format 3-day.

Can you tell I really wish I could be there??

JFS
Nov. 12, 2004, 06:02 PM
Tammy,

Karen & I are sharing a room & I'm sure there is room for one more. I would be willing to take anything to the annual meeting. Did you see Denny's request for more info on the people who got the petition & the t shirts going?I'm number 1024 on the petition. I finally got it to work.

tle
Nov. 12, 2004, 07:37 PM
Jackie,

Thanks so much for the offer. I really appreciate it. Unfortunately, due to recent vet bills (which are not done coming), even with the room help, there's no way I can afford to make it. Someone else will have to take the lead at the USEA convention -- but i'm planning on hitting the USEF meeting (so they're not completely off the hook http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif ).

tbpalsx2
Nov. 12, 2004, 08:52 PM
Wow Tammy i am sure you know that the petition has spread "across the pond" Way to go! See the link
www.eventriders.com (http://www.eventriders.com)

Nov 12, 2004
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LATEST NEWS
Long Format Petition

There is an on-line petition currently running for those people who want to see the long format stay, started by Tamara Makela (email: eventer@bright.net).

To access this, go to www.PetitionOnline.com/ABCDCCI/ (http://www.PetitionOnline.com/ABCDCCI/)

tle
Nov. 13, 2004, 07:46 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Very cool! Love that the petition and our efforts are getting noticed!

Heather
Nov. 13, 2004, 09:53 AM
I will be at some of those meetings, and I have my shirt and tote bag. I would be willing, under the proper circumstances to represent us (those proper circumstances probably involving liquor and some back up--not a huge fan of public speaking, LOL). What I think would be really effective though, would be to be able, while one person (gulp, me) was to stand up and reead the petition, to also have every signer (signor?) of it present stand up also. Put some faces to the names as it were.

Let me know. Maybe what we need is several people to go to the meetings, one can read and speak, and the others can provide moral support, LOL. (I've spoken at the convention before, and that's a lot of faces to look out over.) ;-)

barbaraG
Nov. 14, 2004, 09:34 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Where can I get a tee shirt??

Just trying to keep my "job"

BarbaraG
GWV/ http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Pol
Nov. 14, 2004, 01:56 PM
Barbara, Go to Deltawave's web site and read all the stuff there. AFTER you read and sign the petition, you may purchase Tee shirts, mugs, stickers, pins, sweatshirts, bags. No buying till you've signed tho!! Here's the link...http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
www.michigancta.com/threeday.html (http://www.michigancta.com/threeday.html)

Gry2Yng
Nov. 14, 2004, 04:51 PM
Just wanted to let you all know that Jim Graham has signed. The petition has his enthusiastic support. He wants it shown to everyone who comes to ride at Meadow Run. Thanks to Jen Ohmes for printing it off and reading it to him.

tle
Nov. 14, 2004, 07:14 PM
Gry... LOL I already posted on the Jim Graham clinic thread when I saw his signature before I read your note here. That is WONDERFUL!!! That's one selector that we have on "our" side. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif Anyone have any contact with the others? heehee-- anyone have any contact with and want to bring up the petition with Mr. Phillips? (my email to his email account bounced) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I do wish we could see names like O'Connor, Dutton, Kohn, Penniman, Severson, etc. on the petition though.

BTW, we're just a couple signatures short of 1,200!!!!

deltawave
Nov. 14, 2004, 07:42 PM
Bruce Mandeville is coming for a clinic this weekend...will ask him to sign it. I don't think he reads his email very often! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

tle
Nov. 15, 2004, 08:03 AM
lynn, how did the TEAM banquet go? Were you able to get the word out there? any petition signers?? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ZEBE
Nov. 15, 2004, 08:34 AM
Anyone else have problems "signing" the petition? I thought I sent mine on-line on Sat, but I can't find my name today? I don't want to double sign... how long does it take to "post".

tle
Nov. 15, 2004, 08:42 AM
ZEBE... if your signature went through you should have received a confirmation notice at the email account you used when you signed it. But yes, if you did it on Saturday, it should be there already. I'd check in the #1000-1100 area just to make sure.

Impromptu
Nov. 15, 2004, 01:31 PM
So TLE, I've given the petition link to everyone at work, but is there anything else I can do over here?

tle
Nov. 15, 2004, 01:40 PM
I think supporters in countries other than the US need to start hitting on their own National Federations to support the traditional 3-day... especially in the big powerhouse countries of eventing -- Great Britain, New Zealand, Australia, France and Canada -- but any other country that competes would certainly be helpful to have behind us. The way I see it, as has been pointed out to me before, we get the membership to push the national federations and the national federations then have some reason to push the FEI.

So... I'm more than happy to share the petition "results" with other countries since we've started this one even if it is a bit US-based. I would suggest emailing everyone in your organization you can think of, as well as doing the letter writing of your local and national federation leaders and upper level riders.

anyone else have any suggestions? We certainly don't have to keep this to the US alone!

deltawave
Nov. 15, 2004, 01:43 PM
Everybody, it seems, already knew about the petition, and a good number of the flyers got taken, so hopefully you'll see some more signatures coming from Michigan. I donated one of the T-shirts to the Silent Auction but didn't stick around to see who won it! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pol
Nov. 16, 2004, 09:06 AM
Hey Kids, TAKE NOTE!!! YAY KYRA! You go, Girl!! RAH RAH....
Petition quote: "1431. Kyra King Stuart
The USEA stands firmly behind the full 3-Day format. As president-elect of the USEA, I want all of you to know your response to this petition only validates our belief, especially at the one and two star level. Keep up your good work!"

Bruce Mandeville and Rusty Lowe are on there now, too. How COOL is this?

weezie
Nov. 16, 2004, 09:16 AM
Any way to delete signature 1405 - the SPAM one?

Robby Johnson
Nov. 16, 2004, 09:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heather:
(those proper circumstances probably involving liquor and some back up--not a huge fan of public speaking, LOL). What I think would be really effective though, would be to be able, while one person (gulp, me) was to stand up and reead the petition, to also have every signer (signor?) of it present stand up also. Put some faces to the names as it were.

Let me know. Maybe what we need is several people to go to the meetings, one can read and speak, and the others can provide moral support, LOL. (I've spoken at the convention before, and that's a lot of faces to look out over.) ;-) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've got your back, sister! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Robby

deltawave
Nov. 16, 2004, 10:16 AM
Jeez, you knew it was only a matter of time before the spammers got into this. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Yay for all the upper level riders who have signed!

tle
Nov. 16, 2004, 11:15 AM
Ok, here goes the numbers geek in me at it again:

Out of 1448 signatures:
1204 claim to be located in the US
168 in Canada
32 in various parts of the UK
1 in Iraq
1 in Brazil
16 in France
5 in Germany
1 in Italy
3 in Mexico
1 in Belgium

2 are just plain nonsense (I have yet to dig to find duplicates as there are a couple)

821 claim USEA membership
547 claim USEF membership

I can also see:
former olympians, current organizers and officials, several veterinarians and several current upper level riders.

Although as others have said, our (US) current crop of 4-star riders are noticably absent (with exception going to Gillian of course). http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Just thought you'd like to know. Now I'm off to grab some lunch and pay some bills so I can see how much I have left to order my stuff!!

Ellie K
Nov. 16, 2004, 11:18 AM
For those across the pond, some related news:

Excerpted from Horse and Hound
Event forum to focus on short format
Carol Philips
November 8, 2004

The second annual Spillers Open Eventing Forum will focus on the challenges posed by the new FEI “without steeplechase” eventing format

The new FEI “without steeplechase” eventing format will be the theme of the second Spillers Open Eventing Forum for event riders, owners, trainers and breeders, which will take place at Addington Manor EC, Bucks on Monday 21 February 2005.

Tickets, priced at £45, are available in advance. For more information visit: Open Eventing Forum (http://www.openeventingforum.com) or contacting Emma Hunter (tel: 01767 651664) between 9am and 5pm.

Janet
Nov. 16, 2004, 11:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Although as others have said, our (US) current crop of 4-star riders are noticably absent (with exception going to Gillian of course). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, she misses on both counts.

Not yet a **** rider (has done two ***, one with, one without, and "aiming for" Rolex in 2005).

GBR (not US) rider, therefore not subject to the approval/disapproval of Capt. Phillips.

This is an excerpt of what she wrote to Denny: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Thought you might find the following useful for your article. Basically it
explains how the format change has disrupted my preparations for my first
Rolex, possibly endangering my horse and myself.

I did Fair Hill three star for the first time in 2003. Jimmy (Wofford) said
to take it REALLY slowly because we have no idea how much Thoroughbred Sport
has and did not want to break her. She came through fine, so we planned to
do this year, 2004, at a competitive pace. I signed up for the long format
for various philosophical reasons, but also because if we get to Rolex I
want to have one more long format experience under my belt (see how Sport
copes with X cty after steeplechase run at a competitive, rather than
cruising, pace). When they cancelled the long format, I was deprived of this
training experience. We have indeed qualified for Rolex, and plan on going,
but I am a WHOLE lot more apprehensive than I would have been if Fair Hill
had not cancelled their long format. As it is now, when I leave the start
box in Phase A at Rolex in 2005 I will not have done a long format advanced
event in 18 months. (I missed Foxhall in Spring 2004 due to pneumonia on my
part.)

People who did their first three star this year at Fair Hill and qualified
for Rolex are in an even worse position, having NEVER run a three star long
format.

If this is kinder to the horses then, as my father would say, "I'm the cat's
grandmother". Its essentially sending the horse from its sophomore year in
undergraduate college into a graduate school program, without getting to
finish its undergraduate degree. Skipping steps in training, as we all know,
leads to horses unprepared to deal with the questions we hand them. We are
now forced to skip a crucial step as we prepare for one of the hardest
events in the world on horses we adore and have devoted our lives to for
many years.

Feel free to quote any of this, and to get back to me for clarification if
you wish. Good luck in your efforts to save real eventing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

tle
Nov. 16, 2004, 11:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Although as others have said, our (US) current crop of 4-star riders are noticably absent (with exception going to Gillian of course). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, she misses on both counts.

Not yet a **** rider (has done two ***, one with, one without, and "aiming for" Rolex in 2005).

GBR (not US) rider, therefore not subject to the approval/disapproval of Capt. Phillips.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well crud... my bad. It was still good to see her name on the list -- same with others like Bruce Mandeville and Nick Holmes-Smith.

Great letter, btw. I for one will most CERTAINLY be rooting for her at Rolex -- as a great rider, a wonderful mare, a part of the COTH family (in a sense) and as someone who is supporting the traditional format. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Only quibble I would have with her letter is I would have hoped she (and others) would think of this as "our" efforts to save real eventing.

tle
Nov. 16, 2004, 02:28 PM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
Ya know... sometimes it's kind of fun having a big mouth. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

email letters just went out to the Area Chairmen AND every area's Active Rider (if i had an email) AND all the riders with webpages (and emails) listed on the American Horse Trials Foundation site. This included Darren Chiacchia, Stephen Bradley, Karen & David O'Connor, Lellie Ward, Phillis Dawson, Caroline Dowd, Jan Thompson and Sally Cousins.

FINALLY... a productive way to "stir the pot." http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Up to 1460 signatures now!! We're well over 100/day since the petition went online! WOOHOO!!

bigdreamer
Nov. 16, 2004, 04:50 PM
tle-

Is there anything else I can do? any people I can e-mail? Tomorrow after my bio test (which i'm supposed to be studying for right now) I am going to search for eventing on-line, and any website that comes up that is a publication or visited regularly will get an e-mail from me requesting to put a link to the 3day.org site.

and- i got your e-mail. It's not everyday you get something saying that! had i not been sitting i think i would have fainted! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tle
Nov. 17, 2004, 07:00 AM
Good luck on the bio test!

Any way you can think to get the word out. Anyone you think needs to know -- riders, grooms, sponsors, volunteers, publications... anyone... drop them an email, a snail letter or a phone call.

Speaking of which, I got an email monday that I thought ya'll should know about. It was from Melvin Cox, Managing Director and Senior Producer for SportsQuest International -- works closely with HorseTV and says they are also consultants to Horses in California, Inc. and the proposed San Francisco International Horse Trials. Just a show of support and offer of help... although I'm not sure what to ask for. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Also got a letter from an Irish groom for an Italian rider. Another show of support, note of observational evidence that the short format isn't "right", and said she was emailing all her "groom friends." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tle
Nov. 18, 2004, 07:33 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif In less than 20 minutes, the Petition will officially be 2 weeks old. The current count is 1,591 signatures from the US and 14 other countries! That's an average of over 110 signatures per day! And currently over 50% of the signatures claim USEA membership... and almost 40% claim USEF membership! Those are great numbers.

BUT .... the job is certainly not done -- we have just shy of 2 weeks before the start of the USEA Convention. The first 2 weeks are easy as the word starts, but the next 2 will be harder to get signatures... but let's keep going!! I know the Area II meeting is coming up -- can anyone talk about the petition? Maybe collect signatures from those who aren't able to get online? Anyone able to use a laptop to sign up people then and there??? (which would be AWESOME!) What about other meetings? Hopefully as the word spreads we'll get more international support even though our first "targets" are US-based. Keep sending those letters and emails. Talk to your fellow riders -- foxhunters, H/J riders, DQs, even western riders can appreciate all the hard work that goes into completing a 3-day. There are 40-50,000 spectators at Rolex each year... we have 1500 on the petition -- there are plenty of people out there that will support us.

Janet
Nov. 18, 2004, 08:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I know the Area II meeting is coming up -- can anyone talk about the petition? Maybe collect signatures from those who aren't able to get online? Anyone able to use a laptop to sign up people then and there??? (which would be AWESOME!) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'll be at the Area II meeting, and I plan to print out the petition and take it with me.

I am also leading the session on/for USEA Affiliates. One of my points will be "How the Affiliates can influence The Sport", and I will use this as an example.

tle
Nov. 18, 2004, 08:06 AM
AWESOME Janet!

tbpalsx2
Nov. 18, 2004, 08:55 AM
Awesome!! Alston Kerr the President of Rolex signed and also Cora Cushny of Eventing Etc and photo jouanlism fame. And I believe Andrew Bailini was a photgrapher at the North American Young Riders Championship at Bromont in 2003. I have sent e mails to at least 50 poople and some more than once. I am not sure why they are not signing as I know many support the CCI with steeplechase. Time to make some phone calls. Let's hope I don't get accused of harassment!!!

Pol
Nov. 18, 2004, 08:59 AM
I'm going to take the petition over to Dover Saddlery now.

Heather
Nov. 18, 2004, 09:02 AM
I had a brief discussion about this with my trainer last night, who has ridden through the CCI**** level, but whose advanced horse has been recuperating from an injury this year, so she has not ridden the short format. She did Radnor, and both of the one stars this year.

I told her about the petition, and asked her opinion. Her response was sort of interesting to me, she basically said that she's been very confused by all the conflicting reports and the odd things she's seen (she was at Rolex this spring, but not Fair Hill), but that she wants to withold judgement one way or the other until she does one (modified) herself. She said that, like many of us have observed, it doesn't seem to be at all easier on the horses, and that by and large they don't look as good, but some of her fellow riders (and her coach) have raved about the format so much she doesn't know what to think. So she's decided to remain neutral until she has more personal expereince with it--although she agreed the idea of doing one modified a month seems nuts.

That being said, she will have have a horse pointing for a CCI** and one or two pointing for a CCI*** in the spring, and as of right now, she's planning on going long format with all of them.

But I wonder, team fever aside, how many upper level riders have that same I want to exerpeince it for myself attitude? It's pretty "typical eventer" to not take someone else's word for something, and to "learn by doing". I wonder if some of the missing upper level signatures stem from that, as much as "team fever"?

tle
Nov. 18, 2004, 09:14 AM
Heather, that's very interesting. Did she happen to cite WHY specifically those fellow riders liked the modified format?

gully's pilot
Nov. 18, 2004, 09:54 AM
My trainer, who was a working student for Darren Chiachia last winter, told me that she had heard from many "upper level riders" that the modified was so much easier on the horses--I asked her specifically how, and I think the gist of her answer was that you could run more in a year. I told her that at Rolex (I was there, she wasn't) the modified seemed a lot harder on the horses, but she pretty much insisted that it wasn't. I haven't seen any sound medical opinions that support the modified, and this trainer has never run a 3-day or a trials higher than prelim. I was a little discouraged by her response, to be honest, because it seemed to be more based on what Darren said (and he, one presumes, is heavily influenced by Mark Phillips) than on any facts.

Heather
Nov. 18, 2004, 10:08 AM
Just as gully said, the claim from the other riders seems to be "better for the horses", with no obvious visual evidence to back it up. She even said, "they can't tell me why or how, but they are convinced it is. So I guess I'll just have to wait and see for myself."

EventerAJ
Nov. 18, 2004, 10:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heather:
I had a brief discussion about this with my trainer last night, who has ridden through the CCI**** level, but whose advanced horse has been recuperating from an injury this year, so she has not ridden the short format. She did Radnor, and both of the one stars this year.

I told her about the petition, and asked her opinion. Her response was sort of interesting to me, she basically said that she's been very confused by all the conflicting reports and the odd things she's seen (she was at Rolex this spring, but not Fair Hill), but that she wants to withold judgement one way or the other until she does one (modified) herself. She said that, like many of us have observed, it doesn't seem to be at all easier on the horses, and that by and large they don't look as good, but some of her fellow riders (and her coach) have raved about the format so much she doesn't know what to think. So she's decided to remain neutral until she has more personal expereince with it--although she agreed the idea of doing one modified a month seems nuts.

That being said, she will have have a horse pointing for a CCI** and one or two pointing for a CCI*** in the spring, and as of right now, she's planning on going long format with all of them.

But I wonder, team fever aside, how many upper level riders have that same I want to exerpeince it for myself attitude? It's pretty "typical eventer" to not take someone else's word for something, and to "learn by doing". I wonder if some of the missing upper level signatures stem from that, as much as "team fever"? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think Heather's trainer is not alone... I bet there are many upper level riders with the same feelings.

Time will tell. But meanwhile, KEEP LOBBYING! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JFS
Nov. 18, 2004, 10:37 AM
I have a little information to let you know what we're up against & urgency in getting as many people to sign the petition as necessary. The following was posted on the FEI website www.horsesport.org (http://www.horsesport.org) It is under the FEI Meeting day two & was posted yesterday "Eventing: The bureau Shares the view of the Eventing Committee that the new CCI format without steeplechase is a viable sport for the future providing new opportunities for the organizers, riders, and the horses and is good for the development of Eventing." YIKES, I know that our rep to the FEI did not agree with this.

I have also heard from a very successful **** rider that she has never felt so many horses "hit the wall" and had to nurse them home as she did with the 2 modified events that she rode in this year.

The petition is great, but we need a scientific study to prove what we think is happening out there. I believe someone mentioned that Dr. Cathy Kohn has unofficially started to do this. Perhaps it is time to put our money where our mouth is and pay to have a study done. I believe that the petition would encourage the USEA that this would be a good place to spend some money.

Keep up the good fight. It's not over until it's over.

tle
Nov. 18, 2004, 10:44 AM
YIKES!!! Who is behind all this nonsense??

I have sent emails to Dr. Kohn, Dr. Allen and others on the USEF veterinary committee to ask if any information exists. And the petition specifically requests such a study. I hope one is in the making because this is NUTS!

tle
Nov. 18, 2004, 11:05 AM
Anyone else want to fill the mailboxes of the FEI Eventing Committee with me?

patchcroft@bigpond.com - Wayne Roycroft (Chair)
mikees@sibford.freeserve.co.uk - Michael Etherington-Smith (deputy Chair)
Carlb@beaulieu-usa.com - Carl Bouckaert (rider rep)
wghenson@globalnet.co.uk - William Gordon Henson
CHess@fn-dokr.de - Christoph Hess (organisers rep)
ocet93@aol.com - David O'Connor
gdc@mclink.it - Giuseppe Della Chiesa (Co-opted member and World Cup working group liaison)
c.norinder@horsesport.org - Ms. Catrin Norinder (world cup working group technical manager)

tle
Nov. 18, 2004, 11:37 AM
Ok, perhaps this isn't the best worded message but it's what I feel and I think it does the immediate job anyway. Hope all the rest of you think it's ok -- as it's on its way already!

----------------------------
To -- the above listed people -- FEI Eventing Committee

Dear Sirs and Ma'am,

The following statement appears on the FEI website under the Bureau summary:

"The Bureau shares the view of the Eventing Committee that the new CCI format without Steeplechase is a viable sport for the future, providing new opportunities for the organisers, riders and horses and is good for the development of Eventing."

As an eventer, I find it hard to understand how the Eventing Committee is behind the veterinarily unproven and membership undesired change to the format of the sport of Eventing.

Observational data alone suggest that the short format CCI is not easier on the horse. Many horses look tired, according to some riders ARE more tired, and in many cases end up worse per observed TPR statistics in veterinary areas followin short-format cross country. Is there any scientific study or published veterinary data to conclude that the massive sweeping changes the Eventing Committee is reportedly supporting with the FEI are really beneficial to the horses?

A movement recently started in the US and is gaining widespread international support. This is a movement specifically to KEEP the traditional format CCI in the mix. A petition has been circulating for only 2 weeks and has over 1,600 signatures from 15 different countries… all designed to KEEP the traditional CCI.

Eventing is a sport and while money keeps the sport rolling, it is still a sport in which thousands of members partake. Sweeping changes made from the top with no concern to how it will affect the VAST majority of the participants is not governing the sport… it is dictation at its worst. One would hope those in positions such as yourselves would investigate more thoroughly what your constituants desire for the direction of the sport. And in this case, the direction leading to the path of the short-format CCI is NOT what is desired. The traditional format CCI is proven… passing both veterinary criteria, spectator excitement and rider enjoyability. We understand the need for compromise when organizations such as the IOC make threats about removing Eventing from the Olympic spotlight. But let's face it, when the Olympic test is not as difficult as many three-day events in the world, one can hardly call it the pinnacle of the sport. Staying IN the olympic spotlight is important for the sport, but to water-down a sport which has provided millions with enjoyment over the years and many, including yourselves, with a livelihood when there are other options to be entertained does justice to no one -- the riders, the members, the spectators, the sponsors, the horses or the sport itself. There ARE other options if they were only investigated (ie: maintaining our olympic presence in a CIC format while maintaining the integrity of the sport in all other championships with the traditional CCI format).

Taking the endurance and speed factors out fo the CCI may in fact provide, as quoted from above, "a viable sport for the future." It will not, however, be the sport of Eventing. The speed and endurance factors of the sport are part of it's tradition, it's heritage and ultimately it's heart. To remove these elements is like taking ice hockey off the ice. It completely changes what the sport is, how the participants train and compete and in fact, what type of participant is involved in the sport itself. To remove such a large part of the Cross Country day is ultimately turning the sport into a Dressage & Show Jumping competition with the minor inconvenience of Cross Country. These are thoughts shared with me by hundreds of others -- a group that is growing every day.

I sincerely hope the direction of the sport will revert to its former course -- as do many others as proven by the new "Save the 3-Day" movement (which has current support from former olympians, current advanced level riders, a CCI**** organizer, and a national eventing association president among hundreds of others). At a minimum, on behalf of all who wish to understand the decisions this committee has made, I request information containing the details of this decision and why the short-format is being so readily supported for the future of the sport by those entrusted to govern the sport for the membership in lieu of the desires of said membership.

Sincerely,

Tamara Makela
Petition organizer, "Save the 3-Day" organization
& US Eventer.

JDufort
Nov. 18, 2004, 12:47 PM
here's the text of my email to the committee:

To the FEI Eventing Committee:

The following statement appears on the FEI website under the Bureau summary:

"The Bureau shares the view of the Eventing Committee that the new CCI format without Steeplechase is a viable sport for the future, providing new opportunities for the organisers, riders and horses and is good for the development of Eventing."

As the owner of several event horses, and mother of an successful young rider, I have a vested interest in the future of the sport.

The relatively recent addition of the short format CCI has me concerned, because I have yet to see scientific data that measures how the new format promotes the safety and welfare of our horses and our competitors. Surely significant format changes at the highest level should only be implemented after we fully understand their impact on our equine athletes - do we have this data?

I fully understand that the short format CCI was a compromise arrived at to keep our sport in the Olympics. Perhaps a better choice would have been more like the CIC-W that already exists. I fully support making some compromises in our Olympic format, if thats what it takes to keep our sport in the Olympics. The world of sponsors understands "Olympics" in a universal way that they will never understand World Equestrian Games.

The sport of basketball manages to play "international" rules at the Olympics, and "american professional" rules during the regular NBA season, and still other rules at the college level.

There is no reason to change the proven CCI long format for our sports primary championships, just because once every 4 years we will have to compete under modified rules.

A movement recently started in the US and is gaining widespread international support. This is a movement specifically to KEEP the traditional format CCI in the mix. A petition has been circulating for only 2 weeks and has over 1,600 signatures from 15 different countries… all designed to KEEP the traditional CCI.

I hope that you listen to your constituency. Many of us love the original long format, and hope to keep it the centerpiece of our sport. But even those of us willing to accept change want to be reassured that this new format is safe for our horses and our riders. Most of us a very concerned at the speed with which this new format is being implemented, and the lack of information about its safety.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Jeanne Dufort
owner of 3 actively competing Event horses
mother of NAYRC double medalist Johanna Dufort

RunForIt
Nov. 18, 2004, 12:54 PM
Have ANY BNRs signed the petition? If any of us train with one, how about asking "why"?

Ellie K
Nov. 18, 2004, 04:57 PM
As for lobbying the FEI directly, I think it might be worth lobbying more than the eventing committee itself. I just have a hard time believing that they are not working under external pressures which may or may not be valid. There might be some value in addressing the veterinary aspects with the veterinary committee
FEI Veterinary Committee (http://62.2.231.126/PDFS/FEI/08_04/Vet04.pdf). The U.S. is represented on the veterinary committee by Dr. Catherine Kohn, and before that it was Dr. Kent Allen. Also worth noting is that before David O'Connor joined the FEI eventing committee this year, the U.S. was represented on that committee for at least the previous four years by Jack LeGoff. I'm not sure about before 1999 but they can serve two four year terms. So all along we have had a voice, and just to dismiss it as "not being part of the Euro club" I don't think is really accurate considering all the representation the U.S. has now, and the extent to which the FEI has involved the whole world in these discussions over the past three years.

Only a few people out of the 19 or so on the FEI Bureau probably even have significant experience with eventing, so I would like to know what exactly they are basing their conclusions on. The US is represented on the Bureau by Kate Jackson (FEI Group IV Chair) and Richard Nicoll (FEI Driving Committee Chair)
FEI Bureau (http://62.2.231.126/PDFS/FEI/08_01/Bureau04.pdf). It would be interesting to learn what their input was at this Bureau meeting (i.e., if they agree, why? and if they don't agree, did they represent that opinion? If not, why not?)

Another development worth noting is the emerging influence of the FEI Strategic Planning Committee (fans of the Vast German Conspiracy theory will like this) FEI Strategic Planning Committee (http://62.2.231.126/PDFS/FEI/08_04/SPC04.pdf). I think this committee only came about around 1999 or 2000 (not sure exactly), and they stay beneath the radar far more than the discipline committees, but I have seen in various committee reports that they do seem to be consulting on, and exerting influence over, the work of the discipline committees on an ongoing basis--to what degree, I have no idea.

Conspiracy theories aside, I have always thought it VERY inappropriate that the FEI's Strategic Planning Committee is chaired by the Secretary General of the German federation, and even the FEI has acknowledged publicly that this appointment is highly unusual. I am sure Dr. Haring is supremely qualified for the position, and I have no reason to question his integrity in any way, but feel this is a serious conflict of interest (regardless of which country it is and how powerful that country's NF may be). But there is nothing in the FEI Statutes which prevents it. Why? All the NFs have input into the revision of the Statutes and they approved a new edition last April. They know who chairs the Strategic Planning Committee and they approved the current strategic plan--no one else has access to that information. Is this sort of thing never questioned? These are the kind of structural and statutory things where constructive change COULD be effected. But only the FEI's members--the national federations--can do that.

GreyDawn
Nov. 18, 2004, 08:59 PM
I rarely post but I had to say I am so proud of Holly Hepp a BNR for signing the petition. I assume #1648 is "the" Holly Hepp. She is on the winter training list

Pol
Nov. 18, 2004, 09:12 PM
Yay for Holly. She's a gutsy broad! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

bambam
Nov. 19, 2004, 07:37 AM
Go Holly!!!! very very cool

VetRep
Nov. 19, 2004, 02:17 PM
Update...have you seen the last page? A few new key "influencers", including veterinarian Dr. J Allen Leslie, BNRs Mark and Mimi Combs, TD extrordinaire and former USEA Governor Ed Sauer. Very cool!

Erin
Nov. 19, 2004, 06:27 PM
OK, tell me if I've missed any big names... I'm listing a bunch on the website.

From skimming through this thread, I have:

Denny Emerson, Jimmy Wofford, Mark and Mimi Combs, Bruce Mandeville, Nick Holmes-Smith, Jim Graham, and Holly Hepp; USEA president-elect Kyra King Stuart; technical delegate and former USEA governor Ed Sauer; veterinarian J. Allen Leslie; Rolex Kentucky CCI president Alston Kerr.

Any others?

subk
Nov. 19, 2004, 07:06 PM
Without looking:
Brian Ross
Hawley Bennet (Can team rider)
Jane Adkinson (runs Rolex)
Kitty Wiechoff (sp?) Kathy's mom and Rolex horse owner

subk
Nov. 19, 2004, 07:09 PM
Wahoo! Pam Wiedemann just signed, #1753. (Rolex rider!)

tle
Nov. 19, 2004, 07:12 PM
Not a name but if you'd like to include it -- signatures come from the US and **15** other countries! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Definitely LOVE seeing more of the BNR names on there.

GreyDawn
Nov. 19, 2004, 07:48 PM
Definately Walter Straus. He is an icon of sorts and I think Denny referred to him in another post as someone to mention. Former USEA president etc. Also some of the current top ranked young riders if interested: Lauren Whitlock, Ralph Holstein, Coren Morgan,Zoe Bedel.

subk
Nov. 19, 2004, 07:55 PM
Wow! #1662 Richard Thompson, Malvern PA. As in "Dick and Vita Thompson owner of Biko" and several other Rolex horses ridden by Karen O'Connor.

O.K I'm going through the whole list now.

Pol
Nov. 19, 2004, 08:24 PM
A few I've noticed, not necessarily BNRs but those in the trenches on a daily basis...
Rusty Lowe, EMT-P
Chair, USEA Safety Comm
Co-Vice Chair, USEF Safety Comm
Board of Directors, AMEA/SRF
Wendy Lewis
Cora Cushney
John Nunn
Denis Glaccum
Peter Atkins
Pedro Gutierrez

AM
Nov. 19, 2004, 08:32 PM
Tonight I received the email Dick Thompson sent to the whole Radnor organizing committee with a link to the petition. I also recieved an email from the MCTA organizer.

subk
Nov. 19, 2004, 09:19 PM
This is really an amazing list! Here's what I've got and I'm sure I've missed a bunch!

1. Tammy Makela--our star!
124. Jane Atkinson, Org of Rolex CCI****
270. Denny Emerson
301. James Wofford
308. Maureen John, judge
326. Susan Harris, former Rolex rider
434. Heather Morris, Rolex rider
454. Wayne Quarles, judge, Ground Jury, Rolex
607. John Strausburger, COTH editor
696. Ashley MacVaugh, Rolex rider
703. Brian Ross judge, Ground Jury Rolex & Olympics, Org VA CCI*/**
707. Kitty Wieschhoff, Kathy's mom, owner Rolex horse (Spelga Dam)
775. Chelan Kozak, CAN Rolex rider
780. J. J. Johnson, USAE Board of Gov., Rolex Head of Communications.
783. Mary Fike, Org MSCTDA CCI* (& Champagne Run)
827. Amanda Vines, CAN Rolex Rider
896. Paul Popeil, CAN Course designer
915. Nigel Casserly, Rolex announcer
916. Rusty Lowe, USEA Board of Gov, Exec com: Saftey chair
1024. Jackie Smith, USEA Board of Gov.
1156. Jennifer Akers, USEA board of Gov, Exec com: Membership chair
1061. Matthew Firestone
1173. Hawley Bennett, CAN Rolex rider
1199. Jim Graham, US Team Selector
1390. Patte Clement, USEA Board of Gov, TD
1397. Bruce Mandeville, CAN Rolex Rider, Olympics
1431. Kyra King Stuart, pres-elect USEA, Board of Gov
1445. Denis Glaccum, Org of Fair Hill CCI***
1457. Shelley Lambert, org of multi H.T.
1530. John Nunn, owner Bit of Brittian
1534. Beth Lendrum, former USEA Board of Gov.
1648. Holly Hepp, Rolex rider
1655. Wendy Lewis, Rolex rider
1662. Richard Thompson, owner Rolex/Olympic horses (Biko and ?) Org Committeee Radnor CCI**
1689. Ed Sauer, former Board of Gov., TD
1693. Susan Mueller, Co-chair Org committee of Radnor Hunt CCI**
1735. Mark Combs, Rolex rider
1753. Pam Wiedemann, Rolex rider, H.T org.

I am SURE I have missed people! Please add on what you know. If someone could check USEA Board of Govs, I bet we have more than I listed.

Erin
Nov. 19, 2004, 09:51 PM
THANK YOU subk!

gully's pilot
Nov. 20, 2004, 05:44 AM
Ones that struck me were Wayne Quarles and Jorge Montavaldo--I know both through Pony Club. Wayne is an FEI technical delegate for eventing and dressage, works for the USPC, and is one fine clinician; Jorge was one of the event clinicians at Pony Club this year. Both will influence young eventers.

JDufort
Nov. 20, 2004, 06:08 AM
One more to mention. Jennifer Carter (US **** rider) also married to Kyle Carter

Johanna

RunForIt
Nov. 20, 2004, 06:28 AM
Add J.J. Johnson - AREA III chair - to the list. J.J. also made sure that a link to the petition is on the NEWS page of the AREA III website.

tle
Nov. 20, 2004, 10:42 AM
Art Kramer has also signed (17something) and is "high up" in pony club as well as an eventer himself (as is his wife Annika... aka our own annikak!!!)

Jackie Smith is also a horse trial organizer and an event rider (her son completed NAYRC CCI* this year)

Mary Fike organizes 4 events which include MSEDA (note the name change) CCI* as well as Mayfest which includes a Training Level 3-Day clinic.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>1. Tammy Makela--our star! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
awww... geee... to be included on a list that has THOSE names? Thanks subk... now where's that blushing smiley. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JDufort
Nov. 21, 2004, 08:31 AM
I received the following reply from Mike Etherington-Smith (to my email to the FEI eventing committee)

Thank you for your e-mail and for taking the time to write to us all - feedback is always welcome.

What is important to remember is that OC's can still run CCI's with steeplechase, it is their choice. What I found interesting recently is that at Fairhill both types of competition were offered and yet the 'with steeplechase' option only received very few entries.

For sure many of us are/were reluctant to see the negotiation with the IOC end up with what we have but as you point out you do understand the reasoning behind that outcome.


In the UK we have had OC's of various levels offer with s/c and without s/c competitions and I suspect that, provided there is a demand and OC's can afford to continue to offer the with steeplechase option, we shall continue to see them in the calendar.

Also, many of us 'oldies' would very much like to have seen the old format as the only one on the table but this is simply not practical. However, rather than make a complete move to the w/out format, the FEI Eventing Committee has left both options available to NF's/OC's which will hopefully permit those who wish to compete in the traditional format competitions continue to do so.

Thank you again for your e-mail

Yours

Mike E-S


while I'm pleased he wrote back, I am frustrated that he did not address the central question - do we have any safety data backing up this change...

oh, well - no one said this would be easy or fast.

JFS
Nov. 21, 2004, 01:16 PM
I agree that it was nice that he replied, but yes I agree that one of the key questions wasn't answered. I do have another point to make; he says that the organizing committees can choose what format they want to run, well if the FEI has mandated that all championships are without steeplechase, that does NOT give the organizing committee the opportunity to choose! Brian and Penny Ross have graciously agreed to host the 2005 NAYRC, and the want to run the One * as a full three day. The USEF applied to have the JR * a Championship (now that it was a Jr division rather than a YR division per FEI Rules) and requested that they be allow to run it with steeplechase as it is believed that the Jrs. need the * experience and the NAYRC is the perfect venue. It was also stipulated that if they were not allowed to run the one * with steeplechase, the application would be withdrawn. Well...the * Star at the NAYRC will run in the full format, BUT it will not be a championship division, the FEI turned down the request! Where does that make any sense?

Ellie K
Nov. 21, 2004, 02:24 PM
I agree that it's all about the rule change concerning championships...the championships have to be short format, so the demand for the qualifying events will be for the format that they have to run in the championships. Then in a couple years they can say, "well, no one seemed to want the long format, so there's no reason to have it at all anymore."

Same goes for statistics. Yes they'll have short format statistics when enough short format events have been run...that database is the reason for the FEI horse and rider registration and all the extra reporting the officials have to do now. But what are they going to have to compare those short format stats to, if all that's left in the long format is just a handful of 4-stars with dwindling entries because everyone's focused on getting qualified for short format championships?

tle
Nov. 22, 2004, 10:09 AM
Thanks for posting the letter from Mike E-S. Not sure he "gets" it... might have to write him to explain it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

On the petition front, we're rapidly approaching 1,900 signatures. And of the recent signatures, there are a couple of notables to mention --

1861 - Jack Pollard
1859 - Helen H. Ayer (Mrs. Neil R.)!

and a couple more upper level riders. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Janet
Nov. 22, 2004, 10:26 AM
More notable names
Rebecca Coffin - Vickery
Nancy Guyotte

denny
Nov. 23, 2004, 03:46 PM
Is the Melanie Smith, Huntsville, Al. who signed today the Olympic gold medal and World Cup champion Melanie Smith? Who used to ride Calypso?
If so, very nice to see top level show jump riders supporting our efforts. THANKS!!

Robby Johnson
Nov. 23, 2004, 03:52 PM
It very well could be, denny. Last I knew she was in Memphis but I think she's an Alabama girl by birth.

Robby

subk
Nov. 23, 2004, 09:41 PM
Melanie Smith is probably a YR who rides with Jim Graham and has done several 3-days including the YR championships. She lives in Huntsville.

Did ya'll notice Jo Whitehouse USEA Executive Director?

Badger
Nov. 24, 2004, 06:34 AM
1967. Phyllis Dawson Â* Purcellville, VA

tle
Nov. 24, 2004, 06:50 AM
#1972 Kingman Penniman "It is about time we wake up."

Arcadien
Nov. 24, 2004, 09:05 AM
Hey, Phyllis Dawson signed, since I last checked it.

--Arcadien

Heather
Nov. 24, 2004, 09:05 AM
Another "fact finding" situation to report on.

Was at trainer's farm yesterday, and the vet was there. This is a vet who treats many CCI**** horses and has been both the treating vet, and an "official" vet at several CCI's.

Was actually there looking at a horse that had come in that seemed to be a mild roarer and just wanted it confirmed. He said the horse was a mild roarer but since it was just a cute little Novice/Training horse with no greater aspirations, it wouldn't be an issue. Then he said, "If he had to do steeplechase we might worry, then again, steeplechase is going away anyway, so it really doesn't matter."

And I said, in a kind and largely joking manner, "No, it's not, we're fighting to keep it, we aren't going to let them take it away from us."

And he then said in a disgusted voice, "Why on EARTH would anyone who loves horses not support this change." He then went on to relate a story from a CCI he has worked at some years ago where he had 15 horses tie up in the vet box and how it was completely horrifying, and that "as a vet" he is 100% in favor of the short format.

He believes the long format is too difficult on the horses, and the the short format will not only be kinder, but will also allow us to create a circuit where the horses are doing one a month, with prize money, and horse prices rivaling those of the jumpers and dressage horses. And he said that like it was a good thing. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

BTW, as an aside, I know the exact event he was talking about, and the weather before and during that competition just couldn't have been worse. It was a horrifying and upsetting day from a welfare standpoint, BUT it was not because of theformat--it was because the weather went from 30 degrees to 85, back down to 30, and we had, at various times, severe thunderstorms, torrential rain, hail, and sleet. It had been flooding for weeks, and yes, the footing on the chase wasn't great, but it was not for lack of trying. Anyhoo, back to the story.

So I asked him if he had been to a short format event and seen the horses, because they all looked liked crap to me, IMHO, and lo and behold, no, he's never seen a short format event. But he believes somehow that it must be better, and that any problems they are now having relates to riders not knowing how to train for it, rather than any problem inherenet in the short format. And that soon we'll all see how much better it can be.

His parting comment is that he thinks any vet will be in favor of the short format, because it will be so much better for the horses. Any vets on here to comment?

I was speechless, but just suggested before he makes up his mind, to go see a short format and see if his opinion remains the same.

Kind of a depressing chat, to say the least. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

Robby Johnson
Nov. 24, 2004, 09:23 AM
Depressing, to say the very least.

What is better, 12 months of competition to win more prize money and be on TV or the welfare of the horses?

Robby

tle
Nov. 24, 2004, 10:09 AM
Should have mentioned the several vets that have signed the petition.

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

Too bad he won't bother to actually educate himself before making such strong statements. Curious as to why he would judge the entire sport on *1* event and what his experience was at other events. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Yes, let's all have more prize money and horse prices going through the roof... woohoo! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif All this while I'm starting to work with a TB mare who IMHO has all the personality traits to go into the upper levels (and was purchased for a whopping $500).

tbpalsx2
Nov. 24, 2004, 10:46 AM
I am sharing this on this thread also. Orginally posted Nov. 24, 2004 12:20 AM on Coth/Dennys ad thread

Without The Long Format, What Will Become of Race Track Rejects?

Mike Hillman

In 2002, Secret Intention was a hot 8-year-old Thoroughbred who had just won a steeplechase, but was not fast enough to make it a career. Prior to that try at steeplechasing, his life was spent at the flat track. When I got on him, he threw me off. As I trotted him over a fence, he threw me off. He had one watch eye, four white socks and an attitude. It took me half an hour to load him. As we drove away and I listened to him kick the trailer wall, I wondered why I had bought him.

Today, he's without a doubt the finest horse I have ever owned.

How many of us have gone horse shopping and had a horse presented that "didn't have the moves for dressage," or "didn't have the jump for the show ring," or "was too hot for a hack horse," but "would make an excellent event horse."

At one time, the ranks of eventing were filled with these dressage, hunter and hacking rejects. We knew little about their race record, nor did we care. All we knew was that they had come into our care for only a fraction of their original pre-race price, and now they were priceless.

We laughed at the head toss and the buck in dressage,

knowing we would make up the points lost to those steady warmbloods with our fast and clean cross-county run. While the warmbloods huffed and puffed their way around the steeplechase, racking up penalty points like a slot-machine gone nuts, Thoroughbreds were in seventh heaven flying effortlessly over fences and around the courses.

In days of old, one didn't have to take out a second mortgage on the farm for a new mount to be competitive. Because cost was never really an issue, the ranks of the sport were open to any rider with the will to do it and the brains to follow through. You didn't have to be rich to be good. Eventing was the ultimate egalitarian equestrian sport.

For the castoffs from the tracks, eventing was their back up career, their Plan C (steeplechasing usually the Plan B). Eventing gave a purpose to that speed. Maybe they didn't have the speed for the track, but it sure was useful in eventing. Eventing gave these race-track rejects a second purpose, a chance for glory. It required stamina, ability, heart, and most of all brains. Sadly, those days seem to be fading.

Slowly, eventing has been shifting to favor the warm-bloods and heavier mixed breeds. I personally never did understand the addition of the second 10 minute hold box at a three day—other than to level the cross country phases playing field for the warmbloods—to give them time to recover—something the Thoroughbreds didn't and don't need.

Having lost their natural edge on the cross country phase, dressage has become the deciding factor in many events. The outright elimination of the steeplechase phase in the Olympic format will only increase the weighting on the dressage phase, putting upward pressure on the price of success.

The recent modifications to the format of the Olympic event only further erode the Thoroughbred's chances, weighing the odds even more against our fleet-footed friend.

As dressage scores increasingly come to dominate the sport, riders will no longer head to the local race track for their next mount. Bidding wars for a horse that can win the dressage phases will start, indeed, already have started. It'll not take long for eventers to realize that one's ranking at the end of the day is reflective of the price one paid for the horse. And many, unable to bear the increasing costs to be competitive, will choose not to participate.

Which brings me back to my loony ex-race horse—had I not come along, what would have been his fate? What will become of all the racehorses? Who's going to put up with all their shenanigans when their speed and endurance no longer give them an edge?

I was proud of our sport for being able to offer a second chance, for "recycling," for being a sport that found some-thing good in something old.

I like being part of a sport that put higher value in what was in a horse's heart, mind, and spirit, than in his pedigree. I liked being in a sport where a kid without two nickels to rub together had the same chance of winning as one born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

The race track is not going to cease producing horses, and thus there will always be race-track rejects. What will be-come of these off-casts in our increasingly disposable, throw-away world? I cast my vote in favor of keeping the steeple-chase phase, and while we're at it, let's deep six the extra 10 minute hold box, and in doing so, give a second chance to all the Secret Intentions of the world and hope to every kid, rich or poor, that they too can one day represent the U.S. at a `real' Olympic Three Day Event.
Posts: 72 | Location: midwesterner with a southern heart | Registered: Dec. 26, 2003

emf
Nov. 24, 2004, 10:50 AM
TLE, thanks for posting the email addresses! In addition to signing the petition I sent an email to everyone on the list.

update:got "undeliverable mail" re: these two addresses--can someone help?
Unknown user: ghenson@globalnet.co.uk
Unknown user: norinder@horsesport.org

Also got what I assume is an "I'm out of the office," from C. Hess--since all I speak is English that's what I think it is anyway.

Pol
Nov. 24, 2004, 01:05 PM
Heather, what a frustrating conversation. I am so glad you pointed out that the horses coming off xc in the short format looked like hell.
Peter Blauner and Sarah Cochran are 2 vets who have signed the petition and are friends of mine. Both are STRONGLY against the short format, both from veterinary standpoints. I wish we could see Cathy Kohn and/or John Mayo on that petition.
I love seeing my pals from Area 1 signing up-now that the weather is starting to turn foul, they are all coming in from the fields to look at their computers! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

tle
Nov. 29, 2004, 09:01 AM
I think the holiday weekend (at least here in the states) hit the petition inertia kind of hard. Signatures have slowed down a bit. Keep at it people!! Keep those signatures coming and keep the momentum up. It's easy to get things started, but we have to keep at it or we will get a lot of noise, but not much in the way of action. We just hit 2100 signatures:

1797 identify as located in the US (86%)
with the remainder from 15 different countries
57% say they are USEA members
38% claim USEF membership

of note recently (that I recognize anyway) is CCI**** owner Joan Goswell, and I believe USEA ICP committee member Joan Simmons.

subk
Nov. 29, 2004, 12:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tle:
of note recently (that I recognize anyway) is CCI**** owner Joan Goswell <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would be ROLEX WINNING owner! Joan owns Worth the Trust as well as at least one other Karen O'Connor horse.

Tammy are we keeping a running tab of "notable" signatures. I posted a big list about 300 signatures ago and that was just me off the top of my head (meaning I'm SURE I missed some good ones.) I wish we had people who were knowledgeble about the board and/or owners and/or riders and/or officials keeping tabs. Maybe we need a thread that is just a running tab of notables?

Pol
Dec. 1, 2004, 12:37 PM
Are you guys noticing? A few new VIPs have joined the ranks- Tremaine Cooper, Caroline Dowd, Stephie Baer, Suzi and Jim Gornall, Cindy Rawson, Jack Walnes, Ferial Johnson, Lynn Coates Holmes, Trish Gilbert. And these are just the ones I KNOW. I'm guessing some of the names from Ohio and Michigan are VIPs as well. I'm guessing we'll break 3000 by Convention time. Pretty cool.

Erin
Dec. 1, 2004, 09:33 PM
I think this thread IS the running tab. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Also signed recently are Jeremy Beale, Edward Bonnie (USEF drug and meds committee), Richard Lamb, and Allison Springer.

I think I've got most of these added to the mini-list on the website. At some point that list might need to be whittled down or broken up some... it's getting awfully long! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Pol
Dec. 2, 2004, 06:08 AM
Darrah Alexander and Louise Meryman http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

tle
Dec. 5, 2004, 03:47 PM
Signatures have definitely slowed down. Come on guys!! Keep pushing the petition. It went to the USEA Convention this weekend (hopefully we'll be hearing more when everyone gets home) and it will be going to the USEF Meeting next month. Keep telling people about it and keep those signatures coming in!!!

tbpalsx2
Dec. 7, 2004, 02:47 PM
Did anyone sign the petition at the USEA meeting in SF? If so can you add their names to the online version?

Rustlo
Dec. 8, 2004, 05:07 AM
For those wondering, the Safety Committees of the USEA and USEF are interested in statistics of falls, injuries, etc... comparing the two formats. However, it is too early to draw any conclusions that would support either format from that point of view. We are communicating with the FEI and will issue an opinion at the appropriate time.

Personally, I support the traditional format and did sign the petition. Professionally, I can not issue an opinion without the appropriately researched and reviewed data.

Thanks,
Rusty

deltawave
Dec. 8, 2004, 07:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Professionally, I can not issue an opinion without the appropriately researched and reviewed data. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hooray for you! It's a shame the FEI didn't go into this with the same scientific attitude. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

GreyDawn
Dec. 27, 2004, 07:39 PM
Wow Nina Gardner the owner of True Prospect Farm and the breeder/owner of several of Phillip Dutton's top level horses signed the petition,#2479. I am impressed. Also I noticed Kim Morani, Liz Millilin as more recent additions. I am glad the petition contiues to get the attention of upper level owneres/riders in eventing. I am sure there are other recent addtions or names that I just don't recognize. Just a FYI post!!

tle
Dec. 29, 2004, 12:17 PM
Haven't done a stat update on the petition in a while. We're still getting signatures (hope that Denny's recent article is helping because the progress has definitely slowed). Here is where we stand as of right now:
2520 signatures
2202 have US as location
1433 claim USEA membership (57%)
957 claim USEF membership (38%)

The 17 other countries represented include:
Canada - 202
UK - 46
France - 18
New Zealand - 15
Australia - 3
Iraq - 1
Brazil - 2
Germany - 12
Italy - 2
Mexico - 5
Belgium - 1
Norway - 1
Sweden - 1
Switzerland - 3
Ireland - 1
Bermuda - 1
Zwa-Zulu Natal - 1

In addition, 47 of the 50 US states are represented (missing Alaska, Hawaii and Nebraska) and 6 of the 10 Canadian Provinces are represented (Ontario, Quebec, Alberta, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and British Columbia).

The Eventing committee meets on Friday and Saturday, January 14th and 15th at the USEF Annual Meeting where they WILL hear about the Save the 3-Day petition and grassroots movement again (whether they like it or not).

Pol
Dec. 30, 2004, 06:09 AM
Just home from 5 days in England where I carried my MESSENGER BAG, wore my PIN and had many spirited discussions at the expense of the FEI and IOC! I had also carried several pins across with me and happily passed them out to all who asked (or didn't!) Brought home a poster supporting fox hunting in the UK too. Let's keep this thing going. The ad in the Chronicle is EXCELLENT, as is Denny's article. Way to go, Kids.

flutie
Dec. 30, 2004, 07:15 AM
Where on earth is "Zwa-Zulu-Natal?" That's a new one!

Flutie

tle
Dec. 30, 2004, 08:16 AM
don't worry... I had to look it up too!!

Zwa-Zulu Natal is on the east north east side of S. Africa.

Janet
Jan. 3, 2005, 08:32 AM
I think it is one of the former "homelands".