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ottblove
Jan. 13, 2011, 04:31 PM
Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz9coL-tCsI

Ibex
Jan. 13, 2011, 04:46 PM
I think it's pretty arrogant... and hope no one gets hurt along the way. The "First Start to Fairhill in one year goal" is a bit scary.

Anyone know the scoop on the horse or rider? Have either evented before? They're clearly an experienced pair, but still...

RAyers
Jan. 13, 2011, 04:51 PM
My prediction? A rotational waiting to happen. That horse has too much bascule and no matter how clean he wants, he is going to have a hell of a time clearing the BIG spreads on XC at speed. He is an unsafe XC horse.

No, this is not jealousy. I have seen enough horses who have a similar jumping style and even experience crash hard on XC when the fences got big.

Anyway, it all may be moot. They could never move up the qualifications in the time they say.

Reed

CiegoStar
Jan. 13, 2011, 05:05 PM
She's a lovely horse. I wonder how her jumping style will affect her soundness now that she is doing splits over terrain instead of a groomed ring.

I wonder why she is doing this? The horse seemed like it was doing quite well in its original discipline. If she's just doing it for fun, that's certainly fine, but the video makes it seem like she is out to prove something.

Blugal
Jan. 13, 2011, 05:07 PM
My biggest concern was the rider does not have a concept of the 'back seat' - combine that with the horse's bascule...

JER
Jan. 13, 2011, 05:10 PM
I hope this pair does well and has fun. This is a pretty daring move for the rider and I applaud her for it. And we know she's not doing it for the money. :lol:

But zero to CCI*** in 9 months is a lot to ask. I assume the goal is a spring CCI**, too. There's a lot of running around involved in that schedule. Which also means that the rider must be very committed to this goal and has curtailed her jumper activities.

I'd like to hear why the rider saw this mare as an eventer. I'm not doubting her judgment at all -- I'd just really like to know what made her say 'This one's going to be my eventer.'

My advice to her, with a horse that jumps like that, is to practice a few bullfinches before attempting one on course. :D

Blugal
Jan. 13, 2011, 05:12 PM
Fair Hill has various levels of horse trials and at the fall CCI*** there is also a CCI** - I guess she didn't specify which division of Fair Hill she was aiming for.

CiegoStar
Jan. 13, 2011, 05:14 PM
My advice to her, with a horse that jumps like that, is to practice a few bullfinches before attempting one on course. :D

My former coach's 3* horse used to jump over brush. I've seen pics. My coach said it was terrifying :lol: It definitely looked scary!

mg
Jan. 13, 2011, 05:29 PM
Anyway, it all may be moot. They could never move up the qualifications in the time they say.

While I thought it seemed like a cool idea when I first saw the video (just because I like the idea of branching out and doing other disciplines), I did wonder this as well. Maybe it's because I'm poor/don't like showing my horse a bunch, but that seems like an awful lot of events in a short period of time.

But who knows, I've never shown at either the level she's currently show jumping at *or* her goal eventing level, so I'm not much of an expert!

JER
Jan. 13, 2011, 05:47 PM
They did four Trainings last year and a Prelim last week, so maybe not as rushed as the video might make it sound.

The horse looks enthusiastic on XC. Always a good sign. Not every GP jumper would be comfortable out there.

ThirdCharm
Jan. 13, 2011, 05:47 PM
Aside from the self-aggrandizing video.... Looked up the record and the horse did 4 training last fall and just moved up to Prelim at Ocala last weekend. So far no jump or time penalties. First event was 10/9/10. They could make the October CCI** at Fair Hill pretty easily I imagine in terms of getting enough events to qualify..... does it say their goal is the 3* somewhere that I missed?

Interesting. Could pull it off, though risky..... I imagine if the horse can handle a GP course like it is doing in the other video, it can handle the spreads at Intermediate.... 5'3" at the top (similar to a GP oxer), 7'11" base. A 10' wide jump without height? Narrower than a GP water jump. It's xc style will probably improve with more experience, and hopefully she will get some lessons and learn to sit back. Money does not appear to be an issue....

Jennifer

NeverTime
Jan. 13, 2011, 05:48 PM
Well, ya know, that's a pretty ambitious goal. Then again, Marilyn has a hell of a lot of experience as a rider, is a great rider and horsewoman by all accounts. (Probably a more experienced and more talented horsewoman than plenty of people who DO make it around FHI, IMO, and enough horse sense to back off the goal if it's not coming together correctly.)
Assuming the flatwork and show jumping are at or past the level already, and she hooks up with an experienced eventer for some help with XC... why the heck not?
I suspect the rider would be the bigger limiting factor than the horse in this equation -- if the horse can jump 6'2", I can't physically see advanced XC spreads being much of an issue. I'm assuming Marylin fox hunted growing up (could be wrong?) so maybe it won't be a big stretch for her to get comfortable jumping from a very different balance for XC -- though that horse looks like she could be a handful at advanced speed.
Eventing needs a cool new story line. Get 'em, girl.

RAyers
Jan. 13, 2011, 05:57 PM
My issue is that while the horse can jump that big, can the horse jump that big 30-40 times in under 10 minutes? With a bascule as shown it is a huge time and energy waste on course. The horse almost comes to a halt in the air due to its bascule. Now, have a maximum table 4 fences from home, will there be anything left? If the horse continues to jump in the same form, then it will have to be conditioned to an insane amount, limiting the lifetime of the animal.

There is an efficiency in event horses on XC that does not show up in stadium. We saw aspects of this in the speed study.

Reed

lep
Jan. 13, 2011, 06:03 PM
Someone above mentioned she's hooked up with KOC. I see that her husband took a young horse novice in the fall, and then Lauren Kieffer rode the same horse last weekend. So, presumably she is getting some help from the OC camp.

Nigel
Jan. 13, 2011, 06:14 PM
FWIW, Marilyn is Irish. So she very well could have grown up foxhunting. I was stabled down the aisle from her at Spruce Meadows last summer. She had quite a few nice horses and a few good finishes. I thought she rode well and I liked her horses. None of her horses (that I remember) screamed "eventer." I'm 90% sure I saw Marilyn and this horse in a couple of classes.

The courses at Spruce have a bit more of an event feel to them. All rings are grass and some have significant terrain (for a jumper ring, that is). I don't think she should have a problem switching over to eventing. If she has a trainer who teaches x-c well, the goal of Fair Hill should be attainable.

NeverTime
Jan. 13, 2011, 06:38 PM
Marylin is from Maryland, around Potomac to be exact. But that's the reason I also figured she grew up foxhunting, because all the horsey set there rode with Potomac Hunt.
She's got a great resume and she's a very nice rider. I think she's got as good a shot as anyone.

KateDB
Jan. 13, 2011, 06:42 PM
I'm pretty sure Marilyn is a Marylander, born and bred. Ray and Lynne have been in Frederick for years. Girl can RIDE, comes by her talents naturally and has honed them well.
I can't see any reason Marilyn can't make the switch (she did pony club, rode early on with Dickcy Boutelle, who is an eventer etc.) and hope that the Udonna's jump can be tweaked to suit ULXC.
Will be great to see this work out!

M. O'Connor
Jan. 13, 2011, 07:07 PM
Marilyn is indeed from Maryland, her parents are Ray and Lynn Little of Raylyn Farm, not people who fell off the potato truck yesterday.

I bet she does just fine--she grew up riding, had top hunters, jumpers, and has quite a bit of experience at Grand Prix level, and doesn't seem at all out of her element.

I think the predictions of doom and gloom are quite premature.

goobs
Jan. 13, 2011, 07:10 PM
I wish them well! I hope they don't have a rotational fall either. If she trains with KOC wouldn't the assessment of the horse's jump already have been made by Karen? Seabiscuit should have never raced with those legs and conformation but he accomplished a good bit despite all the flaws.

I also don't see her vid as arrogant at all. She is having fun and I didn't take what she said in a personal manner.

Nigel
Jan. 13, 2011, 07:36 PM
Whoops! Sorry, I don't know why I was thinking she was Irish...

Romahorse
Jan. 31, 2011, 07:45 PM
Marilyn & Udonna 6th Prelim Horse @ RH Winter 1 this weekend. Go TEAM UDONNA!

katie+tru
Jan. 31, 2011, 09:06 PM
I have to agree, the video sort of conveys an air of arrogance since it makes her personal quest sound like a huge action movie that's about to premier. >.> But I am curious as to see what happens. Is it just me, or does the horse appears to be a WB? I tend to question (pure) WB's abilities to go fast enough for starred events. I'm really curious to see their dressage.

retreadeventer
Jan. 31, 2011, 09:23 PM
I think she can do it! She's a great rider with a huge wealth of jumping knowledge and this is very exciting for those of us in Maryland! I can't wait to watch her go in this area, and I hope she brings a big cheering section. We need more people to come and support converts to the Dark Side! Reed, not so hasty. This is a nice horse. But maybe not fast enough for a two star level; will need to gallop like a TB.:)

eventchic10
Feb. 2, 2011, 01:53 PM
I often comb Chron. Forums, and was struck so struck by this thread it actually made me join. Luckily I'm used to working for free...

HAS ANYONE EVER MET MARILYN? I have written pieces about and known Marilyn (and her family) for a while now, and I can honestly say you people have got this girl all wrong!

I talked to her in Nov. after her first few events, and I can assure you, this was very much a private, tongue-in-cheek, video that WAS NOT MEANT FOR THE PUBLIC! It was made for her sponsors and the horse's multiple owners, to try to help get them excited and on board for their prized jumper to cross over to the event world! Anyone done their research? Check out their Raylyn Farm website, and you will see hundreds of YouTube videos on there, made for owners to keep updated with their horses. In fact, I might do the same! Look at all the press it has generated! If I actually had riding skills or owners to show horses to of course...

Even if it WAS to be taken at face value, I say what's wrong with some good old smack-talk? OUR SPORT NEEDS IT!!! Maybe the jumper riders have it going on, and we should take a lesson! Their stands are packed, their horses have better market value, and they have better sponsorship. Besides, it's not as if she made a video telling the world that she's been riding for the US Pro Teams since 10 years ago, or that she's the current North American Championship holder. (She didn't need to, we all covered that in the Fall)

Now that I'm finished laying on the guilt trip (though you all really do deserve more of it you shameless neigh-sayers), I might just STOKE THE FIRE a bit...

You think she's aiming for 2*? Bet not. Keeping in mind she's the consummate horsewoman, this is a Go-Big-Or-Go-Home / Smart-As-A-Whip kind of gal who has the knowledge base, toughness, talent and hard-work ethic to make good on her threat (if you deign to take it that way). Anyone heard who's helping her lately? She's not exactly born last night, people. (If the unconfirmed rumors are true..??)

If she doesn't make it, then she's no different than anyone else who tried to reach for their goal. Give a chance. All the same, my guess is that this is just the beginning of what I hope and believe will be a full-throttle story. I call dibs.

You teach a monkey to climb, you'll be looking at it's rear the whole way.

lep
Feb. 2, 2011, 01:59 PM
I personally like the idea of seeing a nice jumper get out of the arena. I have heard a few h/j people say that they would never jump a nice horse over things that don't fall. So, I think it's good to see a good jumper rider take a nice jumper horse out of the arena.

bornfreenowexpensive
Feb. 2, 2011, 02:15 PM
ok...I finally saw the video.

I actually liked it. It really does kinda of have that action movie feel...or really, maybe more like a reality TV show:lol:

Nice horse...looks like a very good rider. I wish them luck and hope they do well. She would not be the first to move up that fast.... I'd of course rather they move up and then stay there for a while! We can always use more good riders and horses.

And it could make a good movie.....or maybe made for TV movie;)

ETA: I looked her up too. Her pedigree is on this page

http://www.raylynfarms.net/Udonna.html

And according to here http://www.paardenfokken.nl/pedigree.php?horseid=346725 that would mean she has 50% blood. Should be enough for eventing now.

bornfreenowexpensive
Feb. 2, 2011, 03:27 PM
Watched their video of their xc round at MD HT. What a great looking pair!

Was too funny to see the mare get to the first water and think...do I need to jump all of that???? oh ok I can go through it!

Smart mare, looks like she has a nice gallop and a very good rider. I'll be cheering them on! (but I do think that a 3* by this fall is a bit of a reach)

goodmorning
Feb. 2, 2011, 03:29 PM
Most Wb's have at least that much blood. You will not find many successful WB's with less blood. It's not about the total %, it's about the location & the way of going, IMO. There are plenty of TB's that probably couldn't make the time because they can't cover the ground adequately.

Mare's have a mind of their own & don't read anyone's book, they can be great partners that try & try. No one has a crystal ball and predict the future, and it would be great thing if eventers could gain more sponsorship. I'm sure the O'Connor's are thrilled to have someone with the financial backing she has. The video doesn't bother me - she seems like she wants something, I like the attitude.

JER
Feb. 2, 2011, 03:33 PM
I often comb Chron. Forums, and was struck so struck by this thread it actually made me join. Luckily I'm used to working for free...

Most of the responses on this thread are positive. Reed -- who has extensive experience in the ULs of both jumpers and eventing as well as extensive experience examining rotational falls -- expressed concern about the way the mare jumped. A few others noted that her goal of CCI*** by the fall is very ambitious, which it is. Those posters, BTW, have considerable experience qualifying horses for events at those levels.


HAS ANYONE EVER MET MARILYN? I have written pieces about and known Marilyn (and her family) for a while now, and I can honestly say you people have got this girl all wrong!

Need clarification here. A number of posters said she's a good rider -- are you saying they've got it wrong?


I talked to her in Nov. after her first few events, and I can assure you, this was very much a private, tongue-in-cheek, video that WAS NOT MEANT FOR THE PUBLIC! It was made for her sponsors and the horse's multiple owners, to try to help get them excited and on board for their prized jumper to cross over to the event world!

The video is publicly available on YouTube. YouTube also has private settings and channels available for users. If this video wasn't meant for the public, it's in the wrong place.


Anyone done their research?Check out their Raylyn Farm website, and you will see hundreds of YouTube videos on there, made for owners to keep updated with their horses. In fact, I might do the same! Look at all the press it has generated! If I actually had riding skills or owners to show horses to of course...

The videos are actually on the YouTube channel and then embedded at the Raylyn website. Not that I'd ever do research.

If this is 'all the press' the video has generated -- 825 views and a short thread on COTH -- I'd be firing my PR people. That said, I think the video is just personal marketing and, although brash, indicative of the rider's/team's excitement. But no surprise there -- eventing is exciting. :)


Even if it WAS to be taken at face value, I say what's wrong with some good old smack-talk? OUR SPORT NEEDS IT!!!

Well, for starters, you didn't seem to like what you perceived as the 'smack-talk' on this thread. This is starting to sound like a tone-deaf PR pitch: sudden bursts of caps, exclamation points, and a curious lack of responsiveness.


Maybe the jumper riders have it going on, and we should take a lesson! Their stands are packed, their horses have better market value, and they have better sponsorship.

Our horses' market value already exceeds what most of us can afford. Are you seriously suggesting we should be aiming to price ourselves out of the sport?

And you know what? Our 'stands' are more packed than yours. No jumper event exceeds the attendance at Rolex, Burghley or Badminton. (I've been to plenty of GPs in the US where the stands aren't exactly packed.)


Besides, it's not as if she made a video telling the world that she's been riding for the US Pro Teams since 10 years ago, or that she's the current North American Championship holder. (She didn't need to, we all covered that in the Fall)

Most of us on here follow equestrian sports and know who Marilyn Little is. Heck, I've seen her ride in Europe on a number of occasions over the years. And if, like you say, that was supposed to be a private video for owners, she'd have no good reason to have to explain who she is to them.


Now that I'm finished laying on the guilt trip (though you all really do deserve more of it you shameless neigh-sayers), I might just STOKE THE FIRE a bit...

Deserve? Deserve more? Neigh-sayers, meaning we talk like horses? Or did you mean 'naysayers'?

Again, most of the responses here are positive.


You think she's aiming for 2*? Bet not. Keeping in mind she's the consummate horsewoman, this is a Go-Big-Or-Go-Home / Smart-As-A-Whip kind of gal who has the knowledge base, toughness, talent and hard-work ethic to make good on her threat (if you deign to take it that way). Anyone heard who's helping her lately? She's not exactly born last night, people. (If the unconfirmed rumors are true..??)

You're painting a most unflattering picture here. Go-Big-Or-Go-Home would not be a positive attribute in our sport. Neither would 'making threats' to run a CCI***. We like to put the horse first and make sure it always comes home safe.


If she doesn't make it, then she's no different than anyone else who tried to reach for their goal. Give a chance. All the same, my guess is that this is just the beginning of what I hope and believe will be a full-throttle story. I call dibs.

You teach a monkey to climb, you'll be looking at it's rear the whole way.

'Dibs'? And then.... WTF are you going on about?

CiegoStar
Feb. 2, 2011, 03:37 PM
JER, you probably didn't need to take the time to do that, but still, :lol: Well done.

Sonoma City
Feb. 2, 2011, 04:24 PM
I wonder why she is doing this? The horse seemed like it was doing quite well in its original discipline. If she's just doing it for fun, that's certainly fine, but the video makes it seem like she is out to prove something.

I heard that Udonna was supposed to be her grand prix horse, but always had a rail or two so just wouldn't be competative at that level. Marilyn has some high level event clients who train w/ her for show jumping, so got the itch to try eventing. I would imagine that to her, jumping a prelim course cross country is a cake walk compared to doing a grand prix jumpoff. Not to say prelim is a piece of cake, but for it's not so scary to someone who is accustomed to competing in grand prix jumper derby's. Even if the jumps are solid and complicated, they're almost 2' smaller than what she's galloping around in the ring, and those derby courses are pretty darn technical. And If the horse can clear a 5'3" oxer, and 6'2" wall, I definitely don't think scope is going to be a problem. Soundness and speed may be. It's a $250k horse though, I doubt that she would be doing it if she and her coaches thought it was dangerous. I would bet that the pair is very well conditioned and prepared considering who they have on their team behind the scenes.

scubed
Feb. 2, 2011, 05:30 PM
I have seen WBs start out with the wrong jumping style and learn to gallop and jump flatter, so while Reed has a ton of experience and I totally respect his opinion, I am less worried that the horse won't figure it out over time. The speed could be an issue, but it might also get fixed. My former trainer's horse (an oldenburg mare who was 1/2 tb 1/2 dutch) jumped like that at Novice and training, even a bit at Prelim, but figured it out well enough to qualify for Rolex. I think it sounds like fun and pretty exciting and will be interested to see what happens.

baywithwhite
Feb. 2, 2011, 09:47 PM
I just watched the video of the pair going xc at the Maryland Horse Trials at training level. I thought their go was quite nice. Balanced, nice gallop from the horse, and the pair looked like they were just clocking around having a good time and not being particularly challenged.

katie+tru
Feb. 2, 2011, 10:06 PM
With all this talk about "too much bascule", which I never thought of as being problematic, what about the problem of jumping too flat? I was always taught that jumping flat lead to knocked rails and caught legs. Can it go either way? Too much bascule or too flat are both bad form? I'm thinking 'too flat' as in how flat you see some hunter horses that run strung out to a fence and launch over looking flat as a board the entire time.

Divine Comedy
Feb. 2, 2011, 10:13 PM
I went through the qualifications she would need to go from first Prelim start to Fair Hill CCI3*** and I think she can do it, logistically. From what I figure, she'd need to run the horse twelve times (including Fair Hill), and while that's pretty high on the number of runs we'd usually do, I don't think it's crazy unreasonable especially if the mare is naturally pretty sound.

(By the way, I am very, very, very bored because I have been stuck in my house for two days, and probably for another two days so yeah....This is how I kept myself entertained for a few minutes.)

Ok, by studying the USEF and FEI rules for qualifications for FEI events, I think she would need to complete the following:

1 CIC 3*
2 A
1 CIC3*
1 CIC2*
2 I
4 P

Now, she's already run 2 Prelims this year and is entered to run Ocala II and Rocking Horse II at Prelim. Therefore, she will have her 4 Prelims needed to move up to Intermediate.

Now, to do a CIC**, she only needs 2 Intermediates. She could do an Intermediate at RH3, and Red Hills. Then she could do the CIC** at Poplar.

Once she does the CIC** at Poplar, she's fully qualified to do a CCI**, which she could do at Jersey Fresh. Horse could then have a break.

The mare could then move to Advanced at Millbrook and do another Advanced at Richland. Once she does this, she is qualified for a CIC***, which she could do at Plantation. Once she does Plantation, she would be fully qualified for Fair Hill.

So yeah, its a bunch of competing, especially in the spring. But it IS logistically doable, and the mare could even have a nice long break in the summer.

katie+tru
Feb. 2, 2011, 10:36 PM
I went through the qualifications she would need to go from first Prelim start to Fair Hill CCI3*** and I think she can do it, logistically.




They don't all have to be in the same area I take it? Pretty much anywhere, so long as they're completed? Or is there a minimum place she has to achieve at each?

Divine Comedy
Feb. 2, 2011, 11:00 PM
They don't all have to be in the same area I take it? Pretty much anywhere, so long as they're completed? Or is there a minimum place she has to achieve at each?

They can definitely be anywhere. They do need to have a dressage score under 50 (or 75 for FEI), P/I/A/CIC need 0 stops XC (CCI can have one stop), no more than 90 seconds over optimum time, and all must have four rails or less.

So the dressage would probably be the weak point for them, but they are working with the best, I hear.

Sonoma City
Feb. 14, 2011, 11:52 AM
Looks like they finished 3rd out of 16 in the Prelim Rider division at Ocala II, without any time/jump faults on either cross country or stadium. Not too shabby ;)

mjrtango93
Feb. 14, 2011, 11:56 AM
Looks like they finished 3rd out of 16 in the Prelim Rider division at Ocala II, without any time/jump faults on either cross country or stadium. Not too shabby ;)

Well you would hope this horse would show jump clean at prelim, its almost 3' shorter then she is used to jumping. Probably have to be more concerned about her falling over them.

AlexMakowski
Feb. 16, 2011, 07:15 PM
I'm a fan of the pair. I think the video is great and refreshing (Im biased because I watch it daily haha). I may be wrong, but I thought I saw them entered Intermediate at Red Hills while I was checking out entries for who was riding in what events in the coming month. I liked the article eventing nation did about the pair and why she picked Udonna. I completely understand the others and their concern, but I get equally concerned at catch rides at the 2 and 3 star level even with the best riders, but thats just my opinion.

I hope they do well and have safe travels. I saw FHI added a CIC3*** to their spring * and **. I wonder if the pair will be there in one of the divisions.

Divine Comedy
Feb. 16, 2011, 07:45 PM
I hope they do well and have safe travels. I saw FHI added a CIC3*** to their spring * and **. I wonder if the pair will be there in one of the divisions.

Maybe the CIC**, but pretty sure there's not enough time for them to qualify for the CIC***. She needs 1 more Prelim, two Intermediates, a CIC**, a CCI**, and 2 Advanceds before she can run a CIC***.

Right now she's entered for:

Rocking Horse 2: Prelim
Red Hills: Intermediate

I'm guessing there are going to run Intermediate at Rocking Horse 3, and maybe the CIC** at Poplar? That's my guesses.

I like making schedules, guys. Don't judge me! :-P

Gry2Yng
Feb. 16, 2011, 08:15 PM
I often comb Chron. Forums, and was struck so struck by this thread it actually made me join. Luckily I'm used to working for free...

HAS ANYONE EVER MET MARILYN? I have written pieces about and known Marilyn (and her family) for a while now, and I can honestly say you people have got this girl all wrong!

I talked to her in Nov. after her first few events, and I can assure you, this was very much a private, tongue-in-cheek, video that WAS NOT MEANT FOR THE PUBLIC! It was made for her sponsors and the horse's multiple owners, to try to help get them excited and on board for their prized jumper to cross over to the event world! Anyone done their research? Check out their Raylyn Farm website, and you will see hundreds of YouTube videos on there, made for owners to keep updated with their horses. In fact, I might do the same! Look at all the press it has generated! If I actually had riding skills or owners to show horses to of course...

Even if it WAS to be taken at face value, I say what's wrong with some good old smack-talk? OUR SPORT NEEDS IT!!! Maybe the jumper riders have it going on, and we should take a lesson! Their stands are packed, their horses have better market value, and they have better sponsorship. Besides, it's not as if she made a video telling the world that she's been riding for the US Pro Teams since 10 years ago, or that she's the current North American Championship holder. (She didn't need to, we all covered that in the Fall)

Now that I'm finished laying on the guilt trip (though you all really do deserve more of it you shameless neigh-sayers), I might just STOKE THE FIRE a bit...

You think she's aiming for 2*? Bet not. Keeping in mind she's the consummate horsewoman, this is a Go-Big-Or-Go-Home / Smart-As-A-Whip kind of gal who has the knowledge base, toughness, talent and hard-work ethic to make good on her threat (if you deign to take it that way). Anyone heard who's helping her lately? She's not exactly born last night, people. (If the unconfirmed rumors are true..??)

If she doesn't make it, then she's no different than anyone else who tried to reach for their goal. Give a chance. All the same, my guess is that this is just the beginning of what I hope and believe will be a full-throttle story. I call dibs.

You teach a monkey to climb, you'll be looking at it's rear the whole way.

Don't know her from Adam, but your post describes the impression I got. Maybe that is because I read the EN interview first, then watched the video. Sent it on to all my h/j friends and they are very excited to watch her as well.

I agree that the horse's jumping style will cost precious seconds, but maybe it isn't as much about the precious seconds as trying something new. Rider strikes me as a competitive person, so she probably wants to do well, but if she can laugh at herself over her "poor circles" - see EN interview, she can probably cope with what comes her way.

Best of luck to her. Video is well done and I think it gets the viewer excited about the possibilities. We need more of that. I'll bet she can get qualified, she just needs to hit on all cylinders from now until then.

ETA: My issue with her jump would be less about the time she spends in the air and more about the fact that she may land 1/2 stride into her distance in the combinations while the fences remain so small. (See water jump on the promo video.) I am sure she is quite adjustable, but you hate to reward a bold jump by jerking her face off and you sure don't want to kick to the long one in the water.

AlexMakowski
Feb. 16, 2011, 08:47 PM
but and interesting thing to thing about. If they are able to make it to the FHI3* safely and successfully, does anyone think that could potentially be grounds for being considered for something like COTH HOY or Horseman of the Year? Or a similar year end cumulative award?

justathought
Feb. 20, 2011, 06:56 PM
My prediction? A rotational waiting to happen. That horse has too much bascule and no matter how clean he wants, he is going to have a hell of a time clearing the BIG spreads on XC at speed. He is an unsafe XC horse.

No, this is not jealousy. I have seen enough horses who have a similar jumping style and even experience crash hard on XC when the fences got big.

Anyway, it all may be moot. They could never move up the qualifications in the time they say.

Reed

Just won Prelim Rider at Rocking Horse....

Curious as to why the jumping style is a problem. Was always taught that a bascule made for a better safer jumper - pretty sure that the heights and spreads here do not exceed those the horse is used to - especially the spread in a Grand Prix open water jump...

Good classical riding is simply good riding - and this rider has the experience and the knowledge

Similarly a good, talented, brave scopey horse is a good horse.

Just asking?

yellowbritches
Feb. 20, 2011, 10:31 PM
Very interesting. Hopefully, this will be fun to watch.

I understand Reed's thought process, though I'm not convinced of the doom and gloom prediction but I do see potential issues.

1. A big, ambitious jumper like this can wear itself out...Zara Phillips rode a horse (Glenbuck??) who was/is a huge jumper and frequently looks done in by the end of a big course. Even Connaught tends to look quite weary with his huge jump.

2. A good, careful jumper can often scare themselves trying so hard on big xc courses. This mare is stupid scopey, so it might not be an issue (see it more with AA/children jumper types), but it will be interesting to see what she thinks of the BIG courses.

hydro101
Feb. 20, 2011, 11:17 PM
I am newer to eventing (and more seasoned in the jumper world), and would also like to know why the bascule makes them a 'dangerous' eventer...
Curious as to why the jumping style is a problem. Was always taught that a bascule made for a better safer jumper - and a horse that was using himself and jumping properly.

BigRuss1996
Feb. 21, 2011, 09:46 AM
[QUOTE=justathought;5439616]
Just won Prelim Rider at Rocking Horse....
[QUOTE]

Why is she competing in the rider divisions? As experienced as she is and if she is shooting for Fairhill 3* I'd think she'd be wanting to compete against her real competition.
Then again I guess you can chase points faster in the rider division. I just find it a bit NQR for an experienced rider to compete in a rider division.
Heck I haven't competed in a few years now (due to the death of my dad and shutting down our breeding farm) but I've competed through Advanced and would never enter a rider division even though now under the rules I'm qualified to do so.

bornfreenowexpensive
Feb. 21, 2011, 10:00 AM
I am newer to eventing (and more seasoned in the jumper world), and would also like to know why the bascule makes them a 'dangerous' eventer... - and a horse that was using himself and jumping properly.


There is using himself properly (i.e. not hanging their knees etc) and over jumping with too round of a bascule. Setting aside the speed aspect (wasting time in the air), if they really crack their back ALL the time over the xc fences...they are more likely to get tired.

In eventing..you want your horse to be efficient.

Also, at the higher levels, we have more blind landings...horses that jump hard over a fence with a blind drop are more likely to fall down on landing. This is why you see the really good xc horses not jump big over fences they can't see the landing on and often they put down their landing gear faster.

I like this horse...I suspect she will alter her jumping style as she gets more xc experience...but I do understand and agree with the concerns that others have voiced.

Janet
Feb. 21, 2011, 10:05 AM
Also, at the higher levels, we have more blind landings...horses that jump hard over a fence with a blind drop are more likely to fall down on landing. This is why you see the really good xc horses not jump big over fences they can't see the landing on and often they put down their landing gear faster.

Especially big drops .... into water.

Janet
Feb. 21, 2011, 10:08 AM
[quote=justathought;5439616]
Just won Prelim Rider at Rocking Horse....
[quote]

Why is she competing in the rider divisions? As experienced as she is and if she is shooting for Fairhill 3* I'd think she'd be wanting to compete against her real competition.
Then again I guess you can chase points faster in the rider division. I just find it a bit NQR for an experienced rider to compete in a rider division.
Heck I haven't competed in a few years now (due to the death of my dad and shutting down our breeding farm) but I've competed through Advanced and would never enter a rider division even though now under the rules I'm qualified to do so.
But she IS brand new to Cross Country (and dressage).

And we don't KNOW what she put on her entry form. She is clearly eligible for the Rider division. The Secretary may have put her there even if she didn't lsit it as #1 on her entry.

justathought
Feb. 27, 2011, 04:40 PM
Udonna and Marilyn Just finished 9th on their dressage score at Pine Top Intermediate.....

TSHEventing
Feb. 27, 2011, 04:57 PM
Very interesting. Hopefully, this will be fun to watch.

I understand Reed's thought process, though I'm not convinced of the doom and gloom prediction but I do see potential issues.

1. A big, ambitious jumper like this can wear itself out...Zara Phillips rode a horse (Glenbuck??) who was/is a huge jumper and frequently looks done in by the end of a big course. Even Connaught tends to look quite weary with his huge jump.

2. A good, careful jumper can often scare themselves trying so hard on big xc courses. This mare is stupid scopey, so it might not be an issue (see it more with AA/children jumper types), but it will be interesting to see what she thinks of the BIG courses.

Slightly different jumping style, but do you think this is efficient?

http://www.katherinebegley.com/uploads/2/0/6/7/2067696/6837970.jpg

That is opposition buzz, one of the best XC horses out there who routinely puts air in between him and the fences.

I'd rather ride the big jumpers than the flat ones to big tables!

Bobthehorse
Feb. 27, 2011, 05:02 PM
I would think the biggest concern is conditioning. Most horses take several years to get from their first event to a 3*, and in turn have a more comprehensive and gradual conditioning program. Im sure coming from the jumpers this horse is very strong and cardio doesnt take very long to improve....but what about her legs? Most horses competing at these levels have many miles of conditioning specifically for xc that this horse wont have.

I have known people to buy jumpers and put them right into eventing at Training/Prelim full time because they can, only to deal with soft tissue injuries because the horses didnt have the same base of fitness that most event horses get working up to those levels. Its a very different type of stress on their bodies and the prep for that comes slowly.

Gry2Yng
Feb. 27, 2011, 05:37 PM
just found this video of her XC from ocala I. The horse's jumping style doesnt seem as exuberant in this prelim round compared to the one of her doing training... http://vimeo.com/19484790

I think that was a great round. Mare has a great gallop, is happy with the job and obviously not intimidated by the fences. They meet everything out of stride and seem to have plenty in the tank at the end.

Personally, I would be very pleased with myself and my horse if I put in a round like that. Looks like they had a nice weekend at Intermediate as well.

Jumpthemoon16
Feb. 27, 2011, 06:14 PM
Can I just say... I want her life.

RiverBendPol
Feb. 27, 2011, 07:33 PM
Too bad she doesn't have to do long formats to move up. Then I HOPE she'd be singing a different tune.

I hope like hell these 2 stay safe. PERSONALLY, I think she is pushing too hard for her own glory. The horse is lovely, as is the rider. I just think she's asking too much, if not physically then surely mentally. I really hope people don't say, "Marilyn did it, why shouldn't I?" We already have too many cross-over H/J people who think that just because they're doing 3'6" courses in the ring that they're ready to start eventing at Prelim.

The whole thing makes me nervous. She had a great weekend at Pine Top, fingers remain crossed.

JER
Feb. 27, 2011, 08:00 PM
Thanks for the link to the video.

They certainly look like they're having a good time.

A few things to note:

1. The rider is not entirely solid in the gallop. :) The irons are a little long, she absorbs too much of the motion in her hips and her adjustments aren't always/usually smooth. Again, she comes from a discipline where different skills are needed, so I think this would all be either new or rusty for her.

2. The mare makes a more obvious effort at the gallop than I like to see. There's a lot of motion in her front end and a lot of up and down on those front feet. The head carriage is on the low side, too, which is also more stressful on the horse in terms of effort. As a general rule of thumb, the most efficient (and fastest) horses are the ones who don't look like they're going fast -- they cover the ground with little effort. The 'uphill gallop' usually is a big push from behind, little up-and-down in front and a higher head carriage.

3. The mare stalls sometimes over the fences. Like bfne and others, I think this could change as she learns to jump more like an eventer.

My biggest concerns here would be (1) the gallop, which looks effortful even at Prelim and (2) with their ambitious schedule and frequent runs, whether the mare will have enough recovery time. Even though she's done the jumpers for years, she's on varied terrain with different types of landings (drops, blind landings which make her use her head/neck differently, etc.) and this does not go unnoticed by your neuro/muscular/skeletal systems. The soft tissue takes time to adjust, the nervous system does too. Relying on what she knows how to do from jumpers -- jumping bigger when uncertain -- could have adverse consequences in a combination.

It's no different that switching from, say, road biking to mountain biking. Yes, you can work the pedals but sheesh, you're sore the next few days, and you're mentally spent much sooner. Often, this means you have to temper your new-found enthusiasm with enforced breaks and limits so that you stay sound.

Or, to put it another way, I'm sure MLM has found herself getting sore in different places, despite all her experience. It's no different for the horse.

All the same, I wish this pair well and I hope they become poster girls for recruiting riders from other disciplines. Eventing is just so much more fun. :)

fatorangehorse
Feb. 27, 2011, 10:33 PM
That 4* horse of Buck's jumps like this. If she's training with the OC's, that horse is trotting and galloping an awful lot to get fit. Judging from what we've seen on film and on paper. The 3 elements of the actual eventing have not posed a problem yet. What an incredible mare. I hope she meets her goal on whatever timeline is safe - and makes manny more of that exceptional horse!