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View Full Version : Step up from a, get this, mullen happymouth boucher bit?



ake987
Jan. 12, 2011, 10:41 PM
What would you say is the next step if a mullen happy mouth boucher bit is being ignored?

This (http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/shopimages/products/extras/HB-2550.jpg) is a blurry photo of the exact bit.

slp2
Jan. 12, 2011, 11:01 PM
Both of my mares "happy place" bit is the Happy Mouth double jointed boucher. It's a baby step up from a mullen mouth. :)
http://www.doversaddlery.com/product.asp?pn=X1-010422&tid=froogle&CATALOG_CODE=1X814&EID=X1814001&zmam

ake987
Jan. 12, 2011, 11:06 PM
Both of my mares "happy place" bit is the Happy Mouth double jointed boucher. It's a baby step up from a mullen mouth. :)
http://www.doversaddlery.com/product.asp?pn=X1-010422&tid=froogle&CATALOG_CODE=1X814&EID=X1814001&zmam

...I'm actually dumbfounded I didn't think of this, thank you! I tried him in a loose ring happy mouth french link, and I don't remember him particularly caring for it, although we are much further along now in our training that he may react differently to it. The stability the boucher off may also be a pro for him. For the first part of the transition from "bits = ow" to "bits = yum" he was going in a loose ring rubber dog bone, which he tolerated, and went "okay" in.

I then bought the boucher and he got even better.. until he stopped paying any attention to it.

ADM7040
Jan. 12, 2011, 11:49 PM
My two suggestions would be the happy mouth double jointed boucher mentioned above or a metal mullen mouth boucher. The right answer would depend on the horse. If the horse has a particularly sensitive palate and does not like the feeling of a jointed bit, then go with the metal mullen mouth. If the horse finds either the metal feel objectionable or wants the bit quieter in his mouth (ability of the double jointed bit to only move on one side of the mouth vs a mullen mouth that will always move on both sides) then the double jointed happy mouth.

From personal experience, I think the double jointed happy mouth boucher is a terrific bit. I have never used a metal mullen mouth bit, only seen them in tack shops.

Good luck!

scubed
Jan. 13, 2011, 08:06 AM
Note that if the middle piece in that bit "rolls" it is unclear whether it is legal for eventing, although bit 15 in the 2011 rules say "ordinary snaffle with a rotating mouth piece" which I would interpret as ok although the rule has been written this way since 2009 and I know that there have been differences of opinion. Another option would be: http://www.horsebitbank.com/hanging-cheek-comfort-snaffle-wide-256.phtml

I also quite like this one: http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=16&jssCart=e1f6fdea3eeeddd834c22b6d24838d43

AnotherRound
Jan. 13, 2011, 08:14 AM
I then bought the boucher and he got even better.. until he stopped paying any attention to it.

This happened to my horse. What did you put him in after he stopped paying attention to the boucher? Do you think it was the boucher style or the mouthpiece style which he stopped paying attention to?

Thanks.

Sonoma City
Jan. 13, 2011, 09:45 AM
What about just a plain french link loose ring? Either a happy mouth or copper alloy?

yellowbritches
Jan. 13, 2011, 10:40 AM
Just a note, but keep in mind that french link does not always equal comfortable to some horses. I would be prepared to try both the French link and a single jointed bit, probably Happy Mouth.

ake987
Jan. 13, 2011, 01:02 PM
This happened to my horse. What did you put him in after he stopped paying attention to the boucher? Do you think it was the boucher style or the mouthpiece style which he stopped paying attention to?

Thanks.

Well, I wasn't in a hurry to change anything, I like to see something consistently for at least a week's worth of work before I make a change like this. So, thus far, I've just been dealing with it and seeing if it could possibly be another factor. It seems pretty clear that it has just become ineffective since this is a problem for me, my trainer, and his lessee. Once I figure out what works for us next, I will let you know!

ake987
Jan. 13, 2011, 01:03 PM
Note that if the middle piece in that bit "rolls" it is unclear whether it is legal for eventing, although bit 15 in the 2011 rules say "ordinary snaffle with a rotating mouth piece" which I would interpret as ok although the rule has been written this way since 2009 and I know that there have been differences of opinion. Another option would be: http://www.horsebitbank.com/hanging-cheek-comfort-snaffle-wide-256.phtml

I also quite like this one: http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=16&jssCart=e1f6fdea3eeeddd834c22b6d24838d43

As an eventing newbie, the last thing I want to do is show up and get DQed for an illegal bit, that would suck! I am fairly certain, though, that I have the resources to get a definitive answer if I really want to use a certain bit that's legality is kind of ambiguous.

Will look into those suggestions, thank you!

ake987
Jan. 13, 2011, 01:05 PM
What about just a plain french link loose ring? Either a happy mouth or copper alloy?

I am going to try the plain french link happy mouth loose ring again, since I have one I can borrow. As I said, last time I used it, we were waaaaaay further back in our training, so it might be something that could work for us now, or even as a bit that I could go back and forth with. First time I used it, results were "meh", but he also did not really understand contact or accepting the bit at that time, so I think it is definitely worth looking at again. I have to figure out whether or not he is a fan of the loose ring, or something more stable, or if he just doesn't like the french link. Ahhh experimentsssssss!

ake987
Jan. 13, 2011, 01:09 PM
Just a note, but keep in mind that french link does not always equal comfortable to some horses. I would be prepared to try both the French link and a single jointed bit, probably Happy Mouth.

So far, the bits I have tried the most of have been single jointed, and all of those were big-time rejects (according to the horse). Every time I tried to take up contact, he got defensive, so I am fairly certain his palette is too low for the nutcracker effect of a single jointed bit to not bug him, since he does not get defensive with an unjointed bit.. jury is still out on his feelings on double jointed, since I have only tried one. (first bit he went in was the mildest of what I had at the time: D ring happy mouth, single jointed. HAAAAAAAAAAAATED it!)

I'm also not opposed to trying different materials, I'm just not sure where to start between all the choices...:confused:

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 13, 2011, 02:52 PM
My horse ran up through Prelim in a mullen happymouth. When he started to get strong xc....we moved up to a D-ring snaffle.

I've had others who started in an HS Duo (which I think is even more mild). They all moved into a loose ring myler comfort snaffle or a KK Ultra snaffle when I needed more.

ake987
Jan. 13, 2011, 03:42 PM
My horse ran up through Prelim in a mullen happymouth. When he started to get strong xc....we moved up to a D-ring snaffle.

I've had others who started in an HS Duo (which I think is even more mild). They all moved into a loose ring myler comfort snaffle or a KK Ultra snaffle when I needed more.

So, just a D-ring single jointed snaffle? I wish those weren't "out" for us, but he really seems to object to the single jointed bits. If it's causing pain, I certainly don't blame him, though!

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 13, 2011, 04:01 PM
So, just a D-ring single jointed snaffle? I wish those weren't "out" for us, but he really seems to object to the single jointed bits. If it's causing pain, I certainly don't blame him, though!


Yup...just a plan D-ring snaffle. I think I still did dressage in the mullen mouth.


If you haven't tried the myler comfort snaffle...I'd give that a go. I've had a lot of my TBs really like it. They seem to prefer how thin it is. Just make sure you try the ones that are legal for dressage.

ake987
Jan. 13, 2011, 04:12 PM
Yup...just a plan D-ring snaffle. I think I still did dressage in the mullen mouth.


If you haven't tried the myler comfort snaffle...I'd give that a go. I've had a lot of my TBs really like it. They seem to prefer how thin it is. Just make sure you try the ones that are legal for dressage.

I've wondered about myler bits.. does their design cause the bit to have a different or milder action than a typical snaffle? My concern is maintaining enough contact without "nutcracking" him for the whole ride. Right now, my contact seems exaggerated to me because I'm simply still getting used to it.. whereas all I used to do was ride around at the buckle!

The whole concept of contact as I now know it is relatively new to me still, so a lot of times I'm riding and thinking "I must be hurting him! This can't be comfortable!" even though he is going around beautifully collected with great rhythm and impulsion, and several professionals have assured me I am maintaining appropriate amounts of pressure. Urgggh.

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 13, 2011, 04:24 PM
no nutcracker effect with the Myler comfort snaffle at all.

http://www.doversaddlery.com/product.asp?pn=X1-01300&ids=977791259


But if you just have a following contact...you shouldn't really have a "nut cracker" effect even with a single jointed snaffle all the time. There are also many bits out there that reduce that effect...even as single jointed snaffles. See this one (I've used it before too)

http://www.doversaddlery.com/herm-sprenger-turnado-loose-ring-snaffle-bit/p/X1-01882/cn/86/

Beam Me Up
Jan. 13, 2011, 05:02 PM
To clarify, is this dressage "ignoring" or jumping "ignoring" the bit or both?

ake987
Jan. 13, 2011, 05:20 PM
To clarify, is this dressage "ignoring" or jumping "ignoring" the bit or both?

Well, a bit (haaaaha) of both. I'd like to refine our flat a lot more before I get too concerned with jumping. But, as far as jumping goes, he doesn't rush or pull, but gets INCREDIBLY heavy. I've been doing a lot of core strengthening, lost over 30lbs, so I know for him to still be yanking me out of the saddle, is not for lack of strength on my part!

For dressage, I have been doing our sessions somewhat like this: Stretches, walk for 10 min at buckle, get a soft contact and maintain this for another few minutes before going through about 10 minutes of trotting, and when I feel we have been able to maintain forwardness, rhythm, and correct carriage, I will then ask him to collect more with my seat, leg, and rein aids. My rein aids are all but ignored. The amount of contact that I need to take to get any reaction from him is not in any way subtle or refined! I am not looking to "bit him up" or throw something harsh in his mouth, but his attitude has gone from "I can't" (when he was physically unable) to "I won't", it truly feels as if he is actively ignoring the bit. I'm also thinking that a broken bit that will help differentiate the cues on each side might be helpful. IDK. I'm frustrated.

Frizzle
Jan. 13, 2011, 05:26 PM
What about a double-jointed copper boucher, like this (http://www.equestriancollections.com/product.asp?groupcode=SN00118)

EqTrainer
Jan. 13, 2011, 06:03 PM
Myler d ring Mullen mouth. Thin but a huge curve in it, never gets near the roof of the mouth.

ake987
Jan. 13, 2011, 08:15 PM
Myler d ring Mullen mouth. Thin but a huge curve in it, never gets near the roof of the mouth.

Any reason you say D over another style? This sounds like something we could definitely try!

kinnip
Jan. 13, 2011, 08:32 PM
ake987, where did you buy that Baucher? I've been searching for the exact same bit, and I'm not having much luck finding one in the U.S.

ake987
Jan. 13, 2011, 08:50 PM
ake987, where did you buy that Baucher? I've been searching for the exact same bit, and I'm not having much luck finding one in the U.S.

You probably won't find one in the US. :) But, ordering that exact one from England cost me $30-something including shipping.

Here you go! (http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=136&xSec=15)

kinnip
Jan. 13, 2011, 08:55 PM
Sweet, had that page up and was going to call tomorrow. Glad to hear they'll deliver here.

mg
Jan. 13, 2011, 09:34 PM
Note that if the middle piece in that bit "rolls" it is unclear whether it is legal for eventing, although bit 15 in the 2011 rules say "ordinary snaffle with a rotating mouth piece" which I would interpret as ok although the rule has been written this way since 2009 and I know that there have been differences of opinion.

It's been my understanding that "rotating" does not mean "revolving," which is what the center of the double-jointed happy mouths do (revolve). So no revolving (spinning) centers. But you may use bits which utilize rotating motion, like the Myler bits with barrel centers: http://www.sandridge.ca/images/Myler1.jpg (the hooks on that D-ring make it dressage illegal, but that's a good picture to demonstrate the movement).

kkindley
Jan. 13, 2011, 10:17 PM
Well, a bit (haaaaha) of both. I'd like to refine our flat a lot more before I get too concerned with jumping. But, as far as jumping goes, he doesn't rush or pull, but gets INCREDIBLY heavy. I've been doing a lot of core strengthening, lost over 30lbs, so I know for him to still be yanking me out of the saddle, is not for lack of strength on my part!



FWIW, I switched to a double jointed Happy Mouth Baucher a few months back and it tended to make my mare get heavy in front, with her poll too low, esp while jumping. She was "ducking" before fences. Seems the Baucher has poll action, which can cause them to travel poll low, which can cause them to be heavy. She really likes her Happy Mouth double jointed mouthpiece, so I got that mouthpiece on a loose ring and we're now working on getting her to rock back on her hocks again. Just a thought.

Lyric
Jan. 13, 2011, 10:22 PM
...he doesn't rush or pull, but gets INCREDIBLY heavy. I've been doing a lot of core strengthening, lost over 30lbs, so I know for him to still be yanking me out of the saddle, is not for lack of strength on my part!

... My rein aids are all but ignored. The amount of contact that I need to take to get any reaction from him is not in any way subtle or refined! I am not looking to "bit him up" or throw something harsh in his mouth, but his attitude has gone from "I can't" (when he was physically unable) to "I won't", it truly feels as if he is actively ignoring the bit. I'm also thinking that a broken bit that will help differentiate the cues on each side might be helpful. IDK. I'm frustrated.


He sounds like my horse. :) Never rushing or pulling, but prone to using contact as an excuse to have me hold his front end up for him. It was possible to push him up and underneath himself but I was constantly fighting his tendency to lean on my hands rather than support himself. I'm currently borrowing this bit

http://www.vtosaddlery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MDMMBWHL2

from a friend and it has helped immensely. The hooks make it illegal for dressage but schooling with it is doing wonders for him. The mouthpiece is very comfortable, but when he starts to lean the hooks provide a slight lifting action that he seems to understand easily. I'm not sure how to explain it other than that he seems to finally understand that he can hold his own front end up without my help and is much happier for it. It also allows me to easily lift a shoulder if I need to since the sides rotate independently, but still has the stability of a mullen mouth. I plan to try him in a dressage legal version of the same mouthpiece soon, hoping that his newfound self carriage translates without the hooks. I do think I'll continue to use this bit for jumping though, he just goes so well in it.

EqTrainer
Jan. 13, 2011, 10:27 PM
He sounds like my horse. :) Never rushing or pulling, but prone to using contact as an excuse to have me hold his front end up for him. It was possible to push him up and underneath himself but I was constantly fighting his tendency to lean on my hands rather than support himself. I'm currently borrowing this bit

http://www.vtosaddlery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MDMMBWHL2

from a friend and it has helped immensely. The hooks make it illegal for dressage but schooling with it is doing wonders for him. The mouthpiece is very comfortable, but when he starts to lean the hooks provide a slight lifting action that he seems to understand easily. I'm not sure how to explain it other than that he seems to finally understand that he can hold his own front end up without my help and is much happier for it. It also allows me to easily lift a shoulder if I need to since the sides rotate independently, but still has the stability of a mullen mouth. I plan to try him in a dressage legal version of the same mouthpiece soon, hoping that his newfound self carriage translates without the hooks. I do think I'll continue to use this bit for jumping though, he just goes so well in it.

This is the exact bit I referred to, without the hooks.

slp2
Jan. 13, 2011, 11:09 PM
posted by MG
It's been my understanding that "rotating" does not mean "revolving," which is what the center of the double-jointed happy mouths do (revolve). So no revolving (spinning) centers.

I think what you are saying is that the double-jointed happy mouths are illegal. They are not. I have ridden at recognized events for several years now in that bit. The joint in the middle does not rotate or revolve at all--it's just a joint in the middle of the bit. :confused:

ake987
Jan. 13, 2011, 11:24 PM
This is the exact bit I referred to, without the hooks.

Why the D and not loose ring, full cheek, eggbutt, blah blah blah..?

mg
Jan. 13, 2011, 11:25 PM
posted by MG

I think what you are saying is that the double-jointed happy mouths are illegal. They are not. I have ridden at recognized events for several years now in that bit. The joint in the middle does not rotate or revolve at all--it's just a joint in the middle of the bit. :confused:

The one I have certainly spins in the middle: http://www.doversaddlery.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_X1-01678. That center plastic bit isn't anchored onto the metal and it spins freely. Perhaps there are different versions which have a secured center joint, but I have two and they both spin. I thought that the "double-jointed" ones were all constructed this way. The "french link" ones are not; they just have a metal link.

ADM7040
Jan. 13, 2011, 11:27 PM
Seems the Baucher has poll action, which can cause them to travel poll low, which can cause them to be heavy.

Actually, boucher bits do not have poll action because there is no fulcrum on the bit to cause leverage. The cheekpieces increase the stability of the position of the bit in the horse's mouth much like a full cheek snaffle w/keepers would do.

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 14, 2011, 07:36 AM
Why the D and not loose ring, full cheek, eggbutt, blah blah blah..?

D-rings (and egg butts and full checks) are a bit more stable as opposed to a loose ring--really maybe it is better to decribe as they just have a slightly different action. Some horses prefer that feel. Although my gut with a horse who gets heavy would be to try the loose ring. I tend to go for the D-ring when I have a horse who is too light in my hand.

VicariousRider
Jan. 14, 2011, 08:32 AM
My mare can get very heavy in my hand and has a bit of a tough mouth. She's also a bit grabber (she uses her very strong tongue to lock the bit in one place against the roof of her mouth causing me to have no bit communication - really obnoxious). I have found the loose ring to be the solution for dressage because they can't grab onto it. As BFNE describes, the loose ring is "unstable" in the sense that it isn't fixed so she has to just listed to it, not hang on it. I've found that I can use a "gentler" bit that is loose ring than I can with a fixed ring so she accepts the bit more.

Unfortunately, I need more breaks on x-c so we use an eggbut slow twist with which I use a very light hand unless she it "tanking-off" with me. Because of the slow twist and the leverage of the stable eggbut, it gives me the right amount of breaks and and she won't "lock" a slow twits against the roof of her mouth. But again: she has a bit of a hard mouth.

I'm not sure if this helps with the problem with your guy, but I thought I'd share!

ake987
Jan. 14, 2011, 03:31 PM
D-rings (and egg butts and full checks) are a bit more stable as opposed to a loose ring--really maybe it is better to decribe as they just have a slightly different action. Some horses prefer that feel. Although my gut with a horse who gets heavy would be to try the loose ring. I tend to go for the D-ring when I have a horse who is too light in my hand.

I've tried Jake in fullcheek, D, loose ring, and boucher cheek pieces. I really can't tell which he is most fond of. It's hard to tell whether he's reacting to the mouth piece or the cheek piece, sometimes! And then, if the mouth piece is okay, but not the cheek pieces (or vice versa), how do you differentiate between which is working and which isn't? Any advice on that?

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 14, 2011, 03:54 PM
I've tried Jake in fullcheek, D, loose ring, and boucher cheek pieces. I really can't tell which he is most fond of. It's hard to tell whether he's reacting to the mouth piece or the cheek piece, sometimes! And then, if the mouth piece is okay, but not the cheek pieces (or vice versa), how do you differentiate between which is working and which isn't? Any advice on that?


I guess I'm just not that picky. If they are not really fussy....I don't mess around changing the bit;) Most of my horses all go in the same bit...or in whatever snaffle bit happens to be on the bridle I grab to use.

Horses...especially green horses....will be all over the place. They will lean, suck back, flip their head....fuss when it starts to get to be hard work....usually I just ride through this as it has nothing to do with the bit. They are just learning and being green horses:)

You just have to stay correct in your aids and position...it isn't really the bit but how you use it. So unless a horse get's really violent/fussy....or is really too strong for me in a particular bit....I don't stress to much about which snaffle I have them in. As the bit isn't going to train them.

There is unfortunately no magic bit that will make them perfect in the contact suddenly! But if they are heavy in a mullen mouth...then to me...they are ready for a metal snaffle. And I would probably switch to whatever loose ring snaffle I have handy...and stay in that for a while.


This is the draw back when you yourself are new and green to training with a contact.....and where you will probably need to rely on the help of a good trainer.

Good luck.

ake987
Jan. 14, 2011, 04:36 PM
I guess I'm just not that picky. If they are not really fussy....I don't mess around changing the bit;) Most of my horses all go in the same bit...or in whatever snaffle bit happens to be on the bridle I grab to use.

Horses...especially green horses....will be all over the place. They will lean, suck back, flip their head....fuss when it starts to get to be hard work....usually I just ride through this as it has nothing to do with the bit. They are just learning and being green horses:)

You just have to stay correct in your aids and position...it isn't really the bit but how you use it. So unless a horse get's really violent/fussy....or is really too strong for me in a particular bit....I don't stress to much about which snaffle I have them in. As the bit isn't going to train them.

There is unfortunately no magic bit that will make them perfect in the contact suddenly! But if they are heavy in a mullen mouth...then to me...they are ready for a metal snaffle. And I would probably switch to whatever loose ring snaffle I have handy...and stay in that for a while.


This is the draw back when you yourself are new and green to training with a contact.....and where you will probably need to rely on the help of a good trainer.

Good luck.

The reason he's been in so many different bits is I tried him in each of the three bits I had available when I got him a year ago, which all had different cheekpieces, before switching from a hunter to an eventing barn. Once I was at my new barn and began training, we switched to a loose ring dogbone for a while, but he still fussed a lot in that, which is where the boucher came into play, and I believe has served us pretty well, until about a month ago.

At this point in the thread I've done a bunch of reading on Myler bits and I'm thinking that I will try him in an MB01 just to see if an ergonomical bit will make any difference, that and I agree that he is ready for a metal bit. I do like the idea of the way they are designed and the reviews are very positive, from my trainer, other friends, and online. Since I have some I can borrow, I think this will be my next route. Since every other piece of equipment he's needed has been expensive and *just for him* (new saddle, new bridle, new shoes, new Mattes pad...) why not the bit, too? :lol:

Every step has been done under the careful eye of my trainer and I annoy her with questions and the like and do my own research and then get a final opinion with her before I make any changes. I make her totally nuts with how slow and methodical I am. :) I have yet to make any changes that were not okay'ed by her, and I'm not anticipating that happening anytime soon! COTH, I suppose, is part of my research. ;)

I appreciate the fact that no bit is going to make a horse go perfectly undersaddle (imagine how much a bit that did that would cost, probably more than my horse!), but I'm also confident that after waiting and watching this deteriorate for about a month, I'm now ready to make a change, and so is my trainer. (And probably the horse, too!)

Thanks so much for your help!

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 14, 2011, 05:01 PM
Sounds like you have a great system.

The myler snaffles are nice bits. Your boy sounds like a bit of a diva:lol: But that is fine...it is hard with green horses to sort out whether they are being fussy just because it is hard work...or if the equipement really doesn't work for them.

Nothing wrong with trying a few different bits. Just whatever you try...try it for a while unless it is really obvious that it isn't working. And that was really all I meant about help from your trainer. They should help you know the differences between when new equipement is needed or you need to ride differently. It can be hard without experience to know what is a training issue because of equipement or because of a green horse or because of a rider (not saying green rider because event experienced riders have issues;))

Sonoma City
Jan. 14, 2011, 06:23 PM
My happy mouth double jointed bit also revolves in the middle. It is not dressage legal, although I know many people show in it and I have never seen or heard of anyone getting eliminated because of it.

Herm Sprenger makes a bit also which has a piece in the center which revolves, it's the WH Ultra (great bit by the way!!!!): http://www.doversaddlery.com/herm-sprenger-wh-ultra-loose-ring-snaffle-bit/p/X1-01894/cn/1457/ It is the only revolving mouthpiece bit legal per USEF.

If interested, the 2010 USEF rules for dressage bits are on pgs 9-19 of this document. The last few pages show photographs of various "trendy" bits and if they are legal or not. http://www.usef.org/documents/FormsPubs/DressageEquipmentBooklet.pdf
Here are the permitted bits as of 2010 for the USEA (EV46): http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2010/13-EV.pdf

kinnip: This happy mouth boucher bit is pretty much a mullen mouth with a bit more flexibilty: http://www.equestriancollections.com/product.asp?groupcode=ER00882 I've never used that mouthpiece but looks pretty nice actually. (again though, not dressage legal)

Sonoma City
Jan. 14, 2011, 06:27 PM
posted by MG

I think what you are saying is that the double-jointed happy mouths are illegal. They are not. I have ridden at recognized events for several years now in that bit. The joint in the middle does not rotate or revolve at all--it's just a joint in the middle of the bit. :confused:

See my post above. I have a HM double jointed loose ring and the center piece does rotate. Technically, not legal.

ake987
Jan. 14, 2011, 06:59 PM
Sounds like you have a great system.

The myler snaffles are nice bits. Your boy sounds like a bit of a diva:lol: But that is fine...it is hard with green horses to sort out whether they are being fussy just because it is hard work...or if the equipement really doesn't work for them.

Nothing wrong with trying a few different bits. Just whatever you try...try it for a while unless it is really obvious that it isn't working. And that was really all I meant about help from your trainer. They should help you know the differences between when new equipement is needed or you need to ride differently. It can be hard without experience to know what is a training issue because of equipement or because of a green horse or because of a rider (not saying green rider because event experienced riders have issues;))

A BIT of a diva? He's Whitney Houston.

To be fair, he has put up with me learning at the same time as him quite well. In general, aside from being a sensitive chestnut OTTB, he is very honest and sensible, gotta hand it to the guy.

And yes, you are 100% right. If you look to a thread of mine, the one about "Horse WILL NOT bend at the poll" I started off having no idea that his biggest problem was me. Although I'm no pro now, I definitely have corrected my major vices and filled in some huge gaps in my training. The immediacy of the results from improving my riding was honestly shocking, he went like a different horse immediately once I fixed ME!

And yes, sometimes it does get difficult (not to mention frustrating) when something is going wrong and I'm not sure what the cause is. Thankfully, as I progress I get more and more self-sufficient and have started applying much of what I've learned to make myself a better owner and rider. I find no shame in asking "stupid questions", I would rather get laughed at than put my horse's well-being in jeopardy due to pride. :)

kinnip
Jan. 14, 2011, 07:22 PM
Thanks Sonoma. I went ahead and ordered the mullen mouth Baucher. If all goes according to plan, I won't be using it for long. It's really more of a transition from an HM mullen mouth pelham to a double jointed Baucher. He's been in that Baucher before, but we hit a place where the pelham really helped explain things to him. I really do love my OTTB divas.
Ake: "Whitney Houston"=very funny!

Hampton Bay
Jan. 14, 2011, 09:35 PM
I had a similar situation but with an eggbutt mullen. Similar effect of the bit though. What has helped was the JP oval-mouth copper loose ring.