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View Full Version : Spinoff: Finding "Diamonds"... knowledgeable seller or not??



ThirdCharm
Jan. 10, 2011, 03:32 PM
So there's the thread on finding diamonds in the rough.... and it was proposed that sometimes rough they may still be pricey, because even though they're rough, the seller knows what they have and is pricing accordingly. Whereas a backyard type seller would not know what they had, and you might get a ridiculous bargain.... but you have to do a lot of looking and get a bit lucky to find them in the first place.....

It reminded me of someone who came to look at a nice gelding I had for sale, who informed me that they were "looking for a '10' mover for $5K" (young, sound, big and kid safe no less). I just laughed and said they might want to start scouring backyards as they were unlikely to find such a horse at a barn with a knowledgeable trainer in residence..... (2 years later they are still looking I might add, and kid has hit the dirt a good bit!)

Would you rather pay a little more and deal with a knowledgeable seller (maybe less of a gamble) or go cheap and take a bit more of a risk/effort trying to find the real steal?

Jennifer

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 10, 2011, 04:21 PM
Pay more and deal with some one knowledgeable.

I don't have time. When I decide I need;) another horse...I typically want it yesterday.

I'm usually looking at green horses....I'd rather go somewhere and look at several prospects that may suit my needs. So I'd rather go to someone I know has an educated eye and gets in or breeds a type that I'm looking for....even if it means I will pay for it. It saves me time.....and as you said...it makes it a bit less of a gamble.

ETA: I will still pay what I think the horse is worth....but I'm also not one of those who thinks just because you CAN get a cheap OTTB for 1K or less that all OTTBs (or green horses) are only worth 1K (or less).

Coppers mom
Jan. 10, 2011, 04:33 PM
If I'm looking for something that I want to bring along, whoooooo boy do I love the people with the backyard ponies!

For something that I or a friend or a student actually wants? I'll pay more to not waste my time, unless they also like going and finding a diamond in the rough.

Gry2Yng
Jan. 10, 2011, 04:40 PM
If I'm looking for something that I want to bring along, whoooooo boy do I love the people with the backyard ponies!

For something that I or a friend or a student actually wants? I'll pay more to not waste my time, unless they also like going and finding a diamond in the rough.

This. Fun is fun. When you really want one NOW, looking at unsuitable horses is not fun. When you don't need one, searching for bargains is a BLAST.

yellowbritches
Jan. 10, 2011, 05:20 PM
Pay more and deal with some one knowledgeable.

I don't have time. When I decide I need;) another horse...I typically want it yesterday.

I'm usually looking at green horses....I'd rather go somewhere and look at several prospects that may suit my needs. So I'd rather go to someone I know has an educated eye and gets in or breeds a type that I'm looking for....even if it means I will pay for it. It saves me time.....and as you said...it makes it a bit less of a gamble.

ETA: I will still pay what I think the horse is worth....but I'm also not one of those who thinks just because you CAN get a cheap OTTB for 1K or less that all OTTBs (or green horses) are only worth 1K (or less).
Agreed. This is my first time shopping for ME, but I've been involved with a lot of shopping experiences...it makes a big difference to go to someone who's got a clue. They usually are better at assessing what you need and what the horse needs and getting the right match. They are also usually a lot more honest and a lot less desperate to sell. I have found with the backyard types or semi-pros they usually feel kinda desperate to sell, don't listen to what you are looking for or need, or lie through their teeth.

I also don't have the patience to go digging around in people's backyards for bargains. If I want cheap, that's what the tracks for! ;):lol:

scubed
Jan. 10, 2011, 05:29 PM
I'm always looking when I don't need one, so stick to it has to be a bargain as well as a horse I like. I have bought several really backyard horses that have turned out well as well as some bargain priced from knowledgeable OTTB resellers and resales due to economy, injury, family situation or what not. So far that has worked for me.

fordtraktor
Jan. 10, 2011, 05:59 PM
I don't expect to find diamonds in the rough from knowledgeable buyers, unless they are problem horses (i.e. horses with serious issues of some kind, either of the mind or the limb). You are usually better off buying one from a backyard than getting the bargain horse from a knowledgeable yard that is selling cheap because the horse is (1) a looney, or (2) lame. At least the good yard will tell you the horse is a looney or lame, but that doesn't make it any easier to resolve. If it was easy they would have fixed it and sold for more $$. ;)

If I could afford it, I would buy nice horses from reliable sellers, though -- maybe someday! Until then, diamonds in the rough it is, or babies. These days I'm going for babies, good bargains to be found there from very reliable breeders who need to move nice stock.

ThirdCharm
Jan. 10, 2011, 06:23 PM
Well, as I was saying, a diamond in the rough from a knowledgeable seller might not be CHEAP.... it may be 30 days off the track, might have come from a barrel-bottom race stable and is still scruffy and ribby, but the reseller has done the assessment rides and have it priced at $5K because it HAS THE STUFF.... know what I mean? Whereas it might have been $600 at the track.... but if you'd gone looking yourself, you might have had to look at 20 to find one decent one.... and hope you're right..... whereas at the "knowledgeable seller"'s barn, you might be looking at 20 pre-screened, as it were.... but because of that they are pricier....

Jennifer

AnotherRound
Jan. 10, 2011, 06:34 PM
Either, doesn't matter to me, I pretty much know what I'm looking at, no matter who is selling it. If I saw what I wanted, I'd consider the price based on what I was willing to pay for it, whoever was selling it. Of course, the steal of a deal is the deal with appeal...

fordtraktor
Jan. 10, 2011, 06:40 PM
I guess I should caveat OTTBs are sort of their own little world. Some people who let them down are extremely knowledgeable, can pick good horses and restart them, then still pass them along for reasonable prices. I think most amateurs who are looking for OTTBs would be better off spending $5k for a pre-vetted one from a knowledgeable seller like this than trying their luck at the track, because they can ride it first and see if it is a good fit, which is huge if you only own one horse or have some confidence issues or aren't the most experienced with greenies.

But when it comes to non-OTTBs, if something is cheap and out of nice reputable barn, there is usually a reason and that reason isn't good. Some say the devil you know....but I always hope that the backyard horse secretly doesn't have a devil at all!

netg
Jan. 10, 2011, 06:49 PM
I dislike horse shopping. I'd rather go to someone with a clue and pay more. If I enjoyed horse shopping, it would be different. Instead I look at the likelihood of my time costing me more than the savings in price, and it's not worth it to go backyard/cheap.

OTTBs are their own category I don't count there. I love looking at their conformation in photos (which I know can be misleading) and guessing what they'd be good at, comparing their bloodlines, etc. And I totally window shop with stallions in case I have a mare who I think is worth breeding someday, or decide to do a breeding lease for my next horse.

Beam Me Up
Jan. 10, 2011, 07:09 PM
With OTTBs, I have a hard time buying from resellers just because going to the track and doing the first 30-60 days is so much more affordable.

In general, I agree that the pricing will be more commensurate with horse with more knowledgeable sellers. Which means you DON'T want to buy the 1K horse from the BNT.

Coppers mom
Jan. 10, 2011, 07:50 PM
Well, as I was saying, a diamond in the rough from a knowledgeable seller might not be CHEAP.... it may be 30 days off the track, might have come from a barrel-bottom race stable and is still scruffy and ribby, but the reseller has done the assessment rides and have it priced at $5K because it HAS THE STUFF.... know what I mean? Whereas it might have been $600 at the track.... but if you'd gone looking yourself, you might have had to look at 20 to find one decent one.... and hope you're right..... whereas at the "knowledgeable seller"'s barn, you might be looking at 20 pre-screened, as it were.... but because of that they are pricier....

Jennifer
Or, if you're looking for something that isn't necessarily suited to the knowledgeable persons programs.

Poopsie doesn't crack his back over fences and sometimes plays after the fences? Sucks for a hunter barn, but eventers wouldn't necessarily mind it. Same with a dressage horse that tops out at the lower levels because he just doesn't enjoy it.

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Jan. 10, 2011, 07:50 PM
Would you rather pay a little more and deal with a knowledgeable seller (maybe less of a gamble) or go cheap and take a bit more of a risk/effort trying to find the real steal?

Jennifer

Absolutely. I still needed to buy young and green to be able to afford something nice, and I would have preferred something that was past greenbroke already, but from a reputable seller (we're actually moving to that barn for more training now), it takes a lot of stress, weirdness and uncertainty out of buying a horse. (Of course there's still plenty of stress and uncertainty left anyway...).

WishIWereRiding
Jan. 10, 2011, 08:26 PM
Well, I bought my last horse from a pro, someone "knowledgeable", and you know what, she lied about the horse's history. So who can you trust? My current horse I got from a woman who had a little riding program out of her house and was basically getting out of horses. He was a diamond in the rough, cheap too, and everything the seller told me has been true. She was very honest--I wish there were more sellers like her.

slp2
Jan. 10, 2011, 08:52 PM
Well, then there's the seller who is knowledgeable--but only about another discipline (be it hunter, western, or dressage). The horse that isn't suited for their discipline may not be worth diddly to them or the usual network they sell to.

My BO (hunter rider) happened upon a horse last week that is a quarter horse owned by people who do more western stuff. This horse doesn't trot like a quarter horse (big stride, nice suspension, swingy back, etc.) He's not going to work for what they want to do with him, so they are selling him pretty cheap. Sometimes that's where you can get the deals.

LittleblackMorgan
Jan. 11, 2011, 12:56 PM
The people I bought my new horse from were pretty knowledgeable...daughter rode the HJ circuit, they had a handful of OTTB's and a couple WB crosses.
I stumbled across my horse's ad, first priced at 3k as a WB cross. Watched the price drop to below 2k, took the ride and fell in love.

I was shopping for a low level event prospect, thought I would end up with a 2 year old unbroke AWS...

What I discovered, after paying for and taking my new horse home that she was a 4x registry approved broodmare, a registered, branded Oldenburg (very faded brand), who had 2 high priced babies from an extremely well known imported stud.
A+ mover, sweet with no vices...under 10 years old. That's what I call the bargain of the century. Her siblings have sold for upwards of 30k barely broke. She's got amazing jumper and dressage lines.

I prefer the diamond in the rough. They are definitely out there, you just need to know what to look for!

Heinz 57
Jan. 12, 2011, 12:50 PM
I'll take the backyarder every time. Give me a cheap price and a bad photo and I'll tell you whether I have a hunch or not. That hunch has landed myself and a few friends a number of big, fancy projects and once-well-trained horses.

What I will NOT buy from a backyarder: an OTTB. If I'm going OTTB, it will only be straight from the track.

goodmorning
Jan. 12, 2011, 01:13 PM
I could care less. A photo & a pedigree is good enough for me, I can make an educated decision. Not to mention you will usually get a much more honest rendition from an owner or back-yarder. No horse is perfect, we all know that, it's much easier to find that out the issues sooner rather than later.

sofiethewonderhorse
Jan. 13, 2011, 09:38 PM
Pay More: Knowledgable Seller..hands down

If I had known the above I would have saved myself 3 years of pure misory with the wrong horse.


So there's the thread on finding diamonds in the rough.... and it was proposed that sometimes rough they may still be pricey, because even though they're rough, the seller knows what they have and is pricing accordingly. Whereas a backyard type seller would not know what they had, and you might get a ridiculous bargain.... but you have to do a lot of looking and get a bit lucky to find them in the first place.....

It reminded me of someone who came to look at a nice gelding I had for sale, who informed me that they were "looking for a '10' mover for $5K" (young, sound, big and kid safe no less). I just laughed and said they might want to start scouring backyards as they were unlikely to find such a horse at a barn with a knowledgeable trainer in residence..... (2 years later they are still looking I might add, and kid has hit the dirt a good bit!)

Would you rather pay a little more and deal with a knowledgeable seller (maybe less of a gamble) or go cheap and take a bit more of a risk/effort trying to find the real steal?

Jennifer

coloredcowhorse
Jan. 13, 2011, 10:11 PM
Private seller, possibly slightly knowledgable (may recognize names but have no real idea of what they have)....found a number of really nice horses this way. One was a QH, a little mare that was in a pasture and looked like crap, heavily pregnant and no muscle over back and butt. Owner knew she was decently bred but not aware of whole picture. Sire was AQHA, NCHA and NRCHA Hall of Fame, dam was by another Hall of Fame and a paternal half sister, the last mare sired by the stallion, had recently sold for $80K. I got her for $1200 with the foal she was carrying going back to the seller. Her first foal for me sold for $5K. They ARE out there, in probably every breed and discipline, especially with a soft market....you just have to know what you are looking for and be willing to do a little dealing.

(most recent buy...for $2000...daughter of NCHA Hall of Fame, futurity finalist, out of daughter of #2 money producing cutting sire in history, with second dam a full sister to winner of Superstakes [$120K more or less] and to stallion with foals earning over $800K...second dam also a top 10 finalist at the NCHA futurity...and the mare herself is a proven producer ['02 foal was finalist at '05 NRCHA Snaffle Bit Futurity]...mare is only 13, is open and ready to breed...... I did OK)