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HannoMerci
Jan. 5, 2011, 10:45 PM
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chestnutwithchrome
Jan. 5, 2011, 11:06 PM
I personally don't like him for eventing. Too big and heavy. He looks very front end heavy and downhill, and a bit upright in the pasterns. At 17 + hands he is going to be a big heavy horse to control on x country, and although there is no studies that I know about, it is often said/thought that the bigger they are, the more likely they are to break down. I liked the chestnut gelding you posted about more :-) Good luck with him though! If you like his personality and movement, then go for it!

equestrianerd
Jan. 6, 2011, 07:54 AM
I'm no conformation expert, but he looks big and clunky to me. As chestnutwithchrome said, he looks downhill as well.

The chestnut looks a lot lighter and more balanced. He could still end up big/clunky if he gets above 17h, but he looks less likely to.

Good luck!

purplnurpl
Jan. 6, 2011, 09:11 AM
the chestnut is better put together though.

this horse could very well be a mess to hold together for dressage.

He's off my bigness chart and I'm 6'!
toooooo big.

BigRuss1996
Jan. 6, 2011, 09:37 AM
He appears to be fairly long backed, and looks a bit pigeon toed (which in turn could make him paddle) but could just be the picture.
I will tell you as someone who has had alot of 17.0 hand and larger horses they do have more soundness issues then a smaller horse especially when they are longer backed and heavy as he appears to be. As others have said they are also alot of work to put together for dressage. Also not to be a downer but if he goes as heavy as he looks he may not be the best choice for Preliminary or above. The courses get very technical and you need a horse that is light on it's feet and can turn and jump and get out of it's own way. I myself love the big guys but they really have to be short backed and cat like.
Have you seen this horse in person? If not I would say go see him and see him move and if you can ride him. A horse that looks as heavy as he does is sometimes a real workout to ride. Good luck in your search...

Bogie
Jan. 6, 2011, 10:36 AM
I am 6' tall. I once looked at a mature horse (warmblood) that was about 17.3". My dressage trainer at the time said, "no one needs a horse that big and heavy. You are asking for vet bills."

Since then I've always looked for the horse that's just big enough. My current horse is about 16.1" and I thought he would be too small until I sat on him. He's a TB but pretty wide and he rides big. I love how catty he is -- light on his feet, powerful and a hugely scopey jumper. Compared to my previous horse, a 16.2" Trakehner (who was about 1350 lbs and a bit long), he's much easier to balance.

Now, back to this horse. I think he will mature to be heavier than he is now which will likely make him harder to keep sound and harder to keep fit. Now he may be an incredible mover and very light on his feet, but if he isn't he wouldn't be my first choice for eventing up to prelim.

I liked the chestnut you had a video on better.

However, it's unclear to me whether you are seeing these horses in person or relying on photos and videos. I think you need to see them. Pics can be deceiving.

Do you have a trainer helping you evaluate your prospects? I know when I was looking at young horses it really, really helped me to have someone explain to me how they were likely to mature. I did look at a 4 year old years ago to event. Like this horse he was already pretty big. In that particular horse both my dressage instructor and my jumping trainer thought his body was going to get too heavy as compared to his legs. Their input was very helpful.

Good luck!

frugalannie
Jan. 6, 2011, 01:12 PM
Definitely NOT an expert, as looking at most of my horses will quickly prove to you, but...


It may be the photo angle, but this one seems to be heavier in front than in back, and I generally don't like riding big horses like that XC. Going downhill to a jump, you really want to know that picking up their front ends isn't going to be harder for them than the average horse. I don't get that feeling from this guy. Now he could compensate for that by having a stronger hind end, but there he strikes me as being a little light.. The hip angles seem a little weak to me.

So with those two things combined, I would say it would be more difficult for him to jump himself out of trouble.

Lisa Cook
Jan. 6, 2011, 01:23 PM
You seem to be looking at horse types that are very different from each other, once you factor in the TBs that you expressed interest in, also.

Maybe it would help to focus your search a bit more if you decide what type of horse you like to ride best....do you prefer the push ride or the whoa ride, for example? A sensitive, reactive horse, or one that may be a bit duller to the aids but a bit more forgiving?

Everyone has a type that they prefer to one degree or another. I just can't see a rider whose strengths would match this big guy would be as equally effective rider on a light, quick OTTB.

Xanthoria
Jan. 6, 2011, 03:02 PM
I have no idea how he moves - perhaps he's light and nimble! We also can't tell what his personality is like - that could outweigh some conformation defects too.

But what I see of his conformation from this one pic:

Pros:
Nice length of rein
OK shoulder angle
Feet (at least hinds) appear nice and large.

Cons:
Sickle hocks - aka "curby hocks" - overangulated.
Downhill - if his hind feet were ont he same plane as the front ones, his bum would be higher than his withers, and his stifles higher than his elbows.
Are his knees bumpy or flat? Straight, or back at the knee? Tough to say - he could be calf kneed.
Small engine - the photo shows a horse with a massive head and a tiny bum. Could be just the photo though!

Beam Me Up
Jan. 6, 2011, 04:25 PM
Not a huge fan. He looks very light/weak behind and heavy in front. I don't like the hind end angles either. I agree that he looks immature, but at 4 he won't change that much.

I think I prefer the chestnut, though at that age it's so hard to tell how they'll grow up.

As for others' comments, I don't think you necessarily need a "type," or if you have a type need to always stick to it. (I do have a type--I like the very rangy OTTBs, but have also had nice heavier/more compact OTTBs--well balanced, athletic horses come in various body types).

I'm a little confused by your concurrent vettings though--what would you do if both passed? Why not vet them in order of preference, so if your preferred one passes you don't have to pay for a 2nd vetting?

Xanthoria
Jan. 6, 2011, 04:28 PM
I agree that at 4 he won't change that much, and for sure the sickle hocks are something you're stuck with (flaw that could result in future unsoundness). His downhill build probably won't change either - on the whole too big a risk for me personally.

As I said, more pics/videos could present him very differently though!

Perfect Pony
Jan. 6, 2011, 04:30 PM
Just curious, how tall is the person in the picture?

There is nothing about that horse that says "eventer".

Couture TB
Jan. 6, 2011, 05:45 PM
Hanno- Just out of curiosity who is your trainer? I am in the frozen h*ll of WI too! :lol:

GAEventer
Jan. 6, 2011, 06:29 PM
I would not buy this horse as an event prospect. He has a very weak topline, long in the back, and it's swayed. He has virtually no gaskin for a horse of his size, and looks to be sickle hocked. He knees look funky and he appears to toe-in. I agree with some of the other posters, at 4, he's probably close to being what you'd get.

Make sure you evaluate the horse in front of you, don't just fall in love with the pedigree. I hunt as well as event, and I've had a number of 1/2 drafts that were more appropriately put together, and more athletic looking than this fellow.

asterix
Jan. 6, 2011, 07:17 PM
So, I absolutely adore big horses. The "big man" in my profile is somewhere north of 17.1 (I haven't sticked him; his papers say 17.1 but I have yet to meet ANYONE who believes that). He is big. Big. Big.
He is also very short coupled,very uphill, and was already well into a life as a sporthorse when I bought him.
He is a wonderful event horse through Prelim, although not for everyone...

My "little" horse is probably 17 h now. He went through a serious growth spurt between 5 and 6, and had been sticked just under 17 at 5.
When I bought him coming 5 he was shaped pretty much the way he is now -- just not as "mature" but angles and ratios all the same.

I'm saying this just because I am the last person on this board to be anti-big horse...

but this horse does look downhill, long, and heavier in front than in back, and if any of those are NOT an artifact of being 4 you are in trouble.

And big horses are harder on themselves -- I would have NO tolerance for any early changes on the vetting. The seller of my young horse thought I was crazy for xraying everything but the horse had been lightly started and when they are that big, unless they have a track record, I think caution is warranted.

For what it's worth, the young horse has been incredibly sound for 3 years and the big horse has had one significant problem (unlikely due to his size) in 6 years. They CAN be great, fun, athletic eventers.

But you need to be very careful.

Good luck!

Platinum Equestrian
Jan. 6, 2011, 09:00 PM
I didn't see the chestnut, but the bay I would pass on. Not put together for the job you'd be asking him to do. Even if he is immature for his age his back is super long, which isn't going to change. He doesn't look very athletic. Others pointed out some of the issues with his legs.

PS - We have an 18hh trakehner, so I'm all about the big horses when they meet the right conditions.

midnightride
Jan. 6, 2011, 09:11 PM
I didn't see the chestnut, but the bay I would pass on. Not put together for the job you'd be asking him to do. Even if he is immature for his age his back is super long, which isn't going to change. He doesn't look very athletic. Others pointed out some of the issues with his legs.

PS - We have an 18hh trakehner, so I'm all about the big horses when they meet the right conditions.

Agreed. Every. single. word.

except the PS:yes: I dont have an 18 hander!

He really screams PASS to me!!!!!

Gry2Yng
Jan. 6, 2011, 09:14 PM
Just curious, but are the sellers really willing to let you vet their horses with out a deposit? Not the MO I am used to. If you vet it, you intend to buy it if the horse passes. Sounds like you are vetting a few, then deciding which one to buy.

ETA: To answer the question. Don't like this horse.

EqTrainer
Jan. 6, 2011, 09:22 PM
I have a 36 inch inseam and I love big horses. But you couldn't give me this one!

Gry2Yng
Jan. 6, 2011, 09:40 PM
I live in the Midwest and have never done it or seen it done the way you are going about it. As PP said, why would you spend the money to PP a horse unless you intend to buy it if it passes.

As a seller, I would not open my horse up to PPE's unless they were going home with someone when they passed. A PPE is not without its risks to the seller, plus the time they take while the vet is there as well as the stress on a young horse, both physical and mental.

Lisa Cook
Jan. 6, 2011, 10:07 PM
IThere are chances in both of these cases that they might not be suitable for what I want.

Why on earth would you spend your money vetting a horse when you aren't even sure it is suitable for you? That's a lot of money for you and a lot of wasting the time, energy, and resources for the owners of these horses.

Do you have to have a horse *right now*? My whole $0.02, for what it is worth: You seem very anxious to buy something, anything. Take a deep breath, sit down with your trainer. Make a list of must haves, nice to haves, and things that are unacceptable to you in a horse. Look at your budget, examine the type of horse you ride best and find yourself gravitating to. Then sharpen your search accordingly. And don't vet until you are ready to buy.

wanderlust
Jan. 6, 2011, 10:19 PM
I see your point here, but looks like my case is different than what you're accustomed to. To each his own I suppose:) There are chances in both of these cases that they might not be suitable for what I want. I'm not going to disclose anymore as for I believe that would be unfair to the seller. That's not how things are generally done anywhere, and I've lived (and purchased and sold horses) on both coasts and the midwest. What a waste of a seller's time and your money. You may think it is nothing out of a seller's pocket, but it takes a lot of time out of their day. It is also potentially money out of their pocket if they have a job or other obligations they have to reschedule or take time off from, to handle and haul a horse for a vetting... a horse you probably don't intend to buy anyways.

I find it very inconsiderate.

HannoMerci
Jan. 6, 2011, 10:45 PM
Appreciate everyone's concern on how business works, but you have to remember that every deal and situation is different-I asked for a conformation critique from others, not a lesson on how business should be conducted. I am not wasting my time, their time, or money. I have chosen to do this for my own matters, which should not be disclosed via message board-these are personal. Note that all parties are well informed of all sides of this situation. Again thank you for the concern, but all I wanted was a conformation critique.

mugsgame
Jan. 7, 2011, 09:41 AM
That needs to sit in the field for another 18 months. I would not even start to do anything with it either in that time. It looks seriously weak and just needs time. I doubt it will start eventing till its 6yo/7yo.

MLK1
Jan. 7, 2011, 11:31 AM
I agree with everyone else, I would seriously question this horse as an event prospect looking at his conformation from the photo.

enjoytheride
Jan. 8, 2011, 09:23 PM
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5331003#post5331003

What happened to this one you were getting vetted and the chestnut in another thread you had paid for?

*Trinity*
Jan. 9, 2011, 03:29 PM
That's not how things are generally done anywhere, and I've lived (and purchased and sold horses) on both coasts and the midwest. What a waste of a seller's time and your money. You may think it is nothing out of a seller's pocket, but it takes a lot of time out of their day. It is also potentially money out of their pocket if they have a job or other obligations they have to reschedule or take time off from, to handle and haul a horse for a vetting... a horse you probably don't intend to buy anyways.

I find it very inconsiderate.

Count me in on this oppinion. If you have money to vet all these horses, you have money to get an agent - it will save you (and the sellers!) a lot of time and hassle, possibley even some cash. Two of the horses you have posted I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole if they were free - your trainer should know better than to point you towards either.

If all you want is a conformation critique, skip the extra info that you're vetting it, etc. I'm with enjoytheride - your story really isn't making much sense. You've paid for two horses, vetted three, and you still don't have one in the barn? Either skip the details if you don't want people commenting, or accept some people will go, "wtf?"

Beam Me Up
Jan. 9, 2011, 06:46 PM
Awesome news!! What did you end up with?

Stacie
Jan. 9, 2011, 07:24 PM
I would have liked to have seen pictures of the horses in question, because the comments are interesting.... but the OP removed the pics

HannoMerci
Jan. 9, 2011, 07:26 PM
Removed pics because I thought it was unfair to the seller.

Gry2Yng
Jan. 9, 2011, 07:52 PM
Going agains the NY resolution again, BUT... you didn't think it was a problem for the sellers before you bought a horse, but now you are taking the high road? Something is rotten in Denmark.

HannoMerci
Jan. 9, 2011, 08:03 PM
With the comments some users had, I thought it would be unfair to the seller if someone else stumbled upon this thread that was interested in this horse and made judgement on the horse based off of this thread without contacting the seller to get the scoop on him. I'm not sure how that makes me the "bad guy" in this situation.