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View Full Version : Wraps on the Dutch Horses



Xpression
Dec. 21, 2010, 03:05 AM
What method of wrapping is used for the Dutch horses?

For example, in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo8W2fUjdM4

(I realize that this is a controversial video... I'm only asking about the wraps. Not blue tongues, not hyperflexion. Wraps.)

And in the uber long video of Edward Gal schooling Totilas he was wrapped similarly. Thoughts? What are these wraps? I was thinking perhaps maybe the Eskadron climatex puffy underwraps and then polos overtop?

goeslikestink
Dec. 21, 2010, 03:38 AM
looks like stable or exercise bandages over the top of what ever is underneath so to keep the legs/bandages clean before the competition

Kareen
Dec. 21, 2010, 09:16 AM
It has become fashionable over here to wrap them all the way from coronary band to carpus. We also see a lot more horses packed in bellboots both in the back and front. Has me wonder whether the horses are so much more injury-prone or it is the riding that has changed and results in higher incidence of self-inflicted trauma... Sure enough the long-wrapping keeps them clean through the warmup.

joiedevie99
Dec. 21, 2010, 11:01 AM
Well, using climatex liners under training bandages is very normal- it's the length of the bandage that is odd.

Those remind me of the Veredus quick wraps. I wonder if its something similar.

Ibex
Dec. 21, 2010, 01:48 PM
There's someone here who brought them back from Holland. I *think* they're made by Eskadron.

n2dressage
Dec. 21, 2010, 01:59 PM
I know people here that wrap their Grand Prix horses in almost a standing wrap: it's a felt like "pillow wrap" that's pretty thick and then a standing wrap on top. They said it was so they didn't knock themselves or hurt themselves in piaffe/passage. I don't see the benefit over any other wraps. Many people here use the climatex wraps under polo wraps. That's quite normal.

Velvet
Dec. 21, 2010, 04:39 PM
Hey, if my horse was worth millions, I'd probably put the pillows on his legs too. Lucky for me he isn't. Life is easier in polos or with nekkid legs. :eek: Takes less time to tack up and get to the fun part. (That would be riding. In case you didn't know that. ;) )

dwblover
Dec. 21, 2010, 06:18 PM
Do wraps that long interfere with the flexion of the fetlock joint? It seems like they could. I always end my polo wraps just a hair above the fetlock joint to avoid any issues with flexion.

bort84
Dec. 21, 2010, 06:43 PM
Do wraps that long interfere with the flexion of the fetlock joint? It seems like they could. I always end my polo wraps just a hair above the fetlock joint to avoid any issues with flexion.

It looks like the only wrapped parts are from knee to ankle. At the ankle joint, the padding extends below the wrapped area. I could be wrong in this particular instance, but I've seen legs wrapped that way before.

dwblover
Dec. 22, 2010, 12:09 AM
I see, that would make more sense. It does not look restrictive in the video, so the padding makes sense.

Xpression
Dec. 22, 2010, 04:07 AM
It has become fashionable over here to wrap them all the way from coronary band to carpus. We also see a lot more horses packed in bellboots both in the back and front. Has me wonder whether the horses are so much more injury-prone or it is the riding that has changed and results in higher incidence of self-inflicted trauma... Sure enough the long-wrapping keeps them clean through the warmup.

With polo wraps? They look too thick to be polos, and wouldn't that restrict flexion of the fetlock?

I bet that it's neither the training techniques or the horse's movement itself, but more so on the people. It's most likely a precaution more than anything.

Xpression
Dec. 22, 2010, 04:15 AM
Well, using climatex liners under training bandages is very normal- it's the length of the bandage that is odd.

Those remind me of the Veredus quick wraps. I wonder if its something similar.

Not only is the length odd, but they are also quite thickly padded. More so than your average polo wrap.

Ah. I have never used the climatex, I thought that they were similar to a quilt in size/texture, so that they might extend that far and be that thick on the leg.

http://www.smartpakequine.com/ProductClass.aspx?productclassid=9078&cm_vc=Search

This was the closest I could find. Although this is a boot and not a wrap...?

Xpression
Dec. 22, 2010, 04:17 AM
There's someone here who brought them back from Holland. I *think* they're made by Eskadron.

Link?

jn4jenny
Dec. 22, 2010, 09:46 AM
Looks similar to the Veredus Piaffe Dressage Boot:
http://www.saddleworldcanberra.com.au/product.php?productid=16541

ideayoda
Dec. 22, 2010, 02:09 PM
Wrapping for piaffe/passage???? WHAT? Bandages are for lateral work.

VanEq
Dec. 22, 2010, 02:59 PM
Wrapping for piaffe/passage???? WHAT? Bandages are for lateral work.

That's a pretty specific statement-- bandages are ONLY for lateral work? Bandages are there to protect the legs in ANY movement, not just one particular type of movement.

Or... was this a joke I just didn't get? :D

alibi_18
Dec. 22, 2010, 03:09 PM
Here is a close up of Edward Gal and Totilas.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs021.ash2/34409_482702170930_711565930_7380923_6203664_n.jpg

Looks like polos and bell boots in front.
And polos and climatex/linings at the back.
With black tape at the top to hold things properly!


IdeaYoda: Wrapping for piaffe/passage???? WHAT? Bandages are for lateral work

'Piaffe' is the name of the Veredus boots made for dressage.

Xpression
Dec. 22, 2010, 04:14 PM
Here is a close up of Edward Gal and Totilas.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs021.ash2/34409_482702170930_711565930_7380923_6203664_n.jpg

Looks like polos and bell boots in front.
And polos and climatex/linings at the back.
With black tape at the top to hold things properly!

Thank you! Are the linings really that long, or were they placed farther down the tendon, I wonder.

Donella
Dec. 22, 2010, 09:18 PM
I can't decide what would be worse..the risk of a horse knocking itself during work or the heat generated by all the wrapping/bandages.

spirithorse
Dec. 22, 2010, 09:27 PM
Question: and what of the heat generated by leg wrapping and exercise?

2ndyrgal
Dec. 22, 2010, 09:51 PM
I think I prefer to ride a horse that knows where his feet are. Polo wraps make sense.... on polo ponies. Track bandages make sense.... on race horses. I get jumping boots, and bell boots on jumpers/eventers, though I often wondered why they don't just use quarter boots like the Standardbred folks do, they protect from injury, but aren't going to trip a horse if he steps on one, and they don't spin around.

Recently we had a dressage clinic at our farm. A couple of folks showed up with brand new polo wraps, which they admittedly did not really know how to put on. They wanted to "look nice". Nothing wrong with that, but wrapping legs is a skill that needs to be learned properly, not just played with, and certainly not if you're just doing training level.

I get why a person doing upper level work in a crowded warm up ring might wrap to protect the horse, I don't get why everyone does it.

Dover would hate me.. I don't have matching polos.
Hell, I don't even HAVE polos.

ShannonLee
Dec. 22, 2010, 11:40 PM
I have often used the extra long Eskadrons and polos that cover the ankle. I do wrap the polos over the ankle for more protection and hopefully some support, and if properly done it does not impede flexion at all. With the long quilts I usually don't use bell boots with them, as they give good coverage for bumps all down the fetlock. Even with shorter quilts I don't use bell boots unless I am lunging or the horse is known to overreach. I have never had any problem with heat buildup, but I sure know that a accidental whap with an iron shoe on an unprotected leg can break a splint bone or leave a pretty big cut/bruise, so for me I always protect the legs. It can happen anytime, piaffing, half passing or spooking.....

alibi_18
Dec. 23, 2010, 01:14 AM
Question: and what of the heat generated by leg wrapping and exercise?

If it was such a problem, compared to bruises/cuts/splints, I'm sure those million dollars horse's owner/rider wouldn't put them on. They are being followed by, I can only assume, pretty good vets and think they might know better.

And I haven't heard yet of a horse retired because of tendon heated induced trauma, but many from unprotected leg injuries.

And no one is forced to put bandages on their horses. So each do as they please!:yes:

narcisco
Dec. 23, 2010, 10:46 AM
Wrapping for piaffe/passage???? WHAT? Bandages are for lateral work.

I wonder, but I don't know for sure, if the boots/wraps are designed to help prevent suspensory pulls in the heavily collected work.

2ndyrgal
Dec. 23, 2010, 01:37 PM
Not polo wraps anyway, no stretch, and they were really only designed for protection. I looked at those new stretchy type tendon boot/wrap looking things they came out with, and truthfully, wasn't impressed at all. I did think they'd look nice, and offer a bit of protection, but sadly, the XL didn't look big enough for my horse.

And they were pricey. Elastic track bandgages wrapped correctly might provide a bit of support, or at least make you feel better, but none of the track vets I've ever talked to say that wrapping a horse with anything will actually prevent a suspensory injury.

Donella
Dec. 23, 2010, 03:03 PM
Question: and what of the heat generated by leg wrapping and exercise?

Well, seeing as we are always trying to remove heat, it doesn't make alot of sense to create more of it in the leg. I know a vet who use to treat alot of olympic horses, including Kyra Kirklund's and he swore that the heat created was detrimental and that wraps are garbage (not saying they all feel that way, but it does make me wonder). There is also plenty of research out there that has shown that wraps do not provide any real support of the tendons or ligaments.

That being said, I do think it looks good. I seriously doubt though that a little fleecy with a polo wrap on it provides any REAL protection. If I hit my leg with a shovel or hammer (Ie horse hitting it's one leg with a shod foot) my pants are not exactly going to prevent the damage.

spirithorse
Dec. 23, 2010, 03:17 PM
"If it was such a problem, compared to bruises/cuts/splints, I'm sure those million dollars horse's owner/rider wouldn't put them on. They are being followed by, I can only assume, pretty good vets and think they might know better."

Well, having participated in the SC horse racing industry, I can say that alot of the trainers are moving away from using wraps on the horses because certain vets are beginning to believe there is a correlation between wraps and tendon injuries.

So the more money you have the more horse knowledge you have?

Vets do not know everything...there are those who think they do though.

Tell you what, you wrap your ankle and calf on one leg....then do an hour of extreme exercise....then record the after affect. I do believe you will be surpised.

alibi_18
Dec. 23, 2010, 03:18 PM
I seriously doubt though that a little fleecy with a polo wrap on it provides any REAL protection. If I hit my leg with a shovel or hammer (Ie horse hitting it's one leg with a shod foot) my pants are not exactly going to prevent the damage.

Well yes it would. Your pants are a layer of protection before getting to your skin. The more layer you have, the thicker they are, the better protection you get. That is just logical.

Have you ever wonder why bikers would wear big leather jacket and pants? (Not just to look cool!) :D

alibi_18
Dec. 23, 2010, 03:28 PM
"If it was such a problem, compared to bruises/cuts/splints, I'm sure those million dollars horse's owner/rider wouldn't put them on. They are being followed by, I can only assume, pretty good vets and think they might know better."

Well, having participated in the SC horse racing industry, I can say that alot of the trainers are moving away from using wraps on the horses because certain vets are beginning to believe there is a correlation between wraps and tendon injuries.

So the more money you have the more horse knowledge you have?

Vets do not know everything...there are those who think they do though.

Tell you what, you wrap your ankle and calf on one leg....then do an hour of extreme exercise....then record the after affect. I do believe you will be surpised.

Why don't you call Totilas' owner and let him know he is not knowledgeable and that his care aren't that good...and his poor horse might be suffering.

Neither does having less money mean you have more horse knowledge...

I did ballet dancing for a long time and I did wear leg warmers and wraps. Oh, my legs are fine 15 years later. :yes:

As for the racing horses, don't you think that starting a horse racing career at like 2yrs old, trotting freakin' fast on a fearly hard ground (for the sulky rides!) has nothing to do with any of the leg injuries seen in the Standardbred racing industry?!?! :confused:

spirithorse
Dec. 23, 2010, 05:45 PM
1. Why don't you call Totilas' owner and let him know he is not knowledgeable and that his care aren't that good...and his poor horse might be suffering.

Give the world a break...I never infered what you are here! And do not get me started about horse suffering!

2. I did ballet dancing for a long time and I did wear leg warmers and wraps. Oh, my legs are fine 15 years later. :yes:

Well, having known several ballet dancers in my life, I have never seen a ballet dancer wrap their legs in the same tight manner as the wraps and/or boots are applied to horses. Also, ballet dancers legs do not encounter the same forces that horses do. In fact one of the dancers was a horsewoman who never would use them on her horses for the reason I stated, the heat build up, which causes the soft tissue to act in opposition to its design function.

3. As for the racing horses, don't you think that starting a horse racing career at like 2yrs old, trotting freakin' fast on a fearly hard ground (for the sulky rides!) has nothing to do with any of the leg injuries seen in the Standardbred racing industry?!?! :confused:

The impact forces of the hoof hitting the ground is not the cause of tendon and ligament failure. You seem to think that nature has designed and created a creature that is fragile...:eek:
It is our inappropriate and inadequate schooling/training methods that generate the breakdowns.

The thread is about wraps and/or boots...and many vets and trainers feel that these are not beneficial for the horse. You are intitled to your opinion as are all of us.

FYI:
I have used both wraps and boots in certain situations for short periods of time and that is how I discovered the heat build up.
I prefer not to use wraps and prefer boots that have the suspensary wrap, when I feel the need for the boots.

Petstorejunkie
Dec. 23, 2010, 07:30 PM
I can't decide what would be worse..the risk of a horse knocking itself during work or the heat generated by all the wrapping/bandages.
I vote heat would be worse.

I've never used climatex though, do they have some sort of heat wicking something effect?

Pony Fixer
Dec. 23, 2010, 07:57 PM
Seeing if a horse has whacked himself is self-evident. Seeing if a horse has increased heat build-up in the soft tissues is not.

I don't wrap my horse, pretty much ever (awards ceremonies is about it). If I had a horse that regularly interfered, I might use the "Stretch and Flex" boots (of which I own a pair just in case I need some), which have been designed to reduce heat build-up. Not that they would prevent major damage, of course, but would add a layer of protection.

To each her own. I don't wrap, my horse does not regularly hit himself, and I'm good with that decision. My horse is a huge mover though, and I worry about his soft tissues more so that any of my previous, less gifted, movers.