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hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 19, 2010, 03:52 PM
I made a rough sketch of part of our new facility we plan to build. Shown here is the first phase out of four which includes a 32 stall barn, owners barn, training track, round pen, turnout paddocks for every horse, several grass turnouts, outdoor dressage arena, and a cross country course.

Tell me what you think and what to improve. Its not a very good drawing but you can tell what everything is. In the end, theres going to be this training facility, a rehabilitation center, jumping facility, and dressage facility. So a big project over a long period of time.

Thanks for the feedback!

http://i55.tinypic.com/2dj2jo9.jpg

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 19, 2010, 03:53 PM
Similar facility can be seen here: http://www.horsesforcleanwater.com/farmtours/simpatico-stables/

Bluey
Dec. 19, 2010, 04:10 PM
I made a rough sketch of part of our new facility we plan to build. Shown here is the first phase out of four which includes a 32 stall barn, owners barn, training track, round pen, turnout paddocks for every horse, several grass turnouts, outdoor dressage arena, and a cross country course.

Tell me what you think and what to improve. Its not a very good drawing but you can tell what everything is. In the end, theres going to be this training facility, a rehabilitation center, jumping facility, and dressage facility. So a big project over a long period of time.

Thanks for the feedback!

http://i55.tinypic.com/2dj2jo9.jpg

I say there is too much handling several times a day of horses going and coming from turn out paddocs, which takes much time/labor and more chances of injury to people and horses.

I would have stalls with as large outside runs as is possible and sensible, to take the place of the small turnouts.
Also indispensable to a training barn, especially running horses, is some kind of hot walker or exerciser and I don't seem to see one there.

Our local rider's club, where the handicapped group works from, has several very large rows of stalls with large runs.
If a horse is not exercised some day, he is still moving around and interacting with the horses around him, without anyone needing to handle him for turnout.
That kind of management seems to work very well for most kinds of horses, some competitive at the top of their sports.

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 19, 2010, 05:13 PM
Thanks for reminding me to put that in there. Im am re-doing the sketch right now and will post it over again. I was also thinking of a water-exerciser from Kraft in addition to some hot walkers.

I am not starting with an indoor arena but will plan to have 2 similar to this one http://nwequest.com/glosten.html and http://riverrunranch.com/facilities.html. Does anyone have any suggestions to add? What would your dream boarding stable be like?

Thanks

LookmaNohands
Dec. 19, 2010, 05:21 PM
I think the most important things to keep in mind are: 1. The health and welfare of the horses--large windows, nice turnout, good ventilation etc. 2. As easy to work as possible--makes it easier to hire and keep good help. Where will manure go? 3. Parking and vehicle access. You should be able to get 18 wheelers of horses or hay in and out easily. You need to go visit a bunch of large places similar to yours and find out what works and what doesn't!

Bluey
Dec. 19, 2010, 05:35 PM
Any buildings or arenas, try to go for a true clearspan beams, not truss type ones, unless you will provide for some kind of covering to keep birds out of there.

Our hay barn has two big doors and the hay trucks can come in one, stack the hay right off the trucks to the side and drive off thru the other.
Then, there are tractor attachments today that will handle unloading and stacking small bales.

Whatever you use for storage, think that what and how we feed may change, small bales, big rounds, big squares, bagged, in bulk.
The same with bedding, so make storage areas flexible, so you can handle all kinds of materials thru there without needing to remodel.

What kills the profit in any horse operation is the amount of labor you need, horses being very labor intensive.
Labor will add to your expenses tremendously.
Try to minimize labor where you can, like in the landscaping and maintenance, steps to care for the horses and procure supplies, etc.

You can't ever have a large enough parking area, give that the most you can.;)
If you have boarders, they too need a place to store their horse trailers, generally part of the parking area.

shawneeAcres
Dec. 19, 2010, 05:38 PM
I would question why you would want 32 individual turnout paddocks? Yes, there are times that I have horses that need individual turnout, but horses prefer to be in groups. Our place has four small paddocks that can be used for individual or "pairs" turnout, they are fairly big, about 150 x 100 or so (roughly). THen we have two slightly larger (about 300 x 100) turnout that works for up to three. Then two fields that are bigger yet can accomodate up to four each. Then two really big turnout pastures one is probably 2 acres and one is about 4 acres. This gives us enough "options" with about 20 horses max at any given time. We have a good layout, which I will post once my ariel photo jpg file gets here, not as large of property as your must be, but the way it is laid out makes for maximum efficiency and minimal walking during feeding and turnout (still get PLENTY of exercise!)

Bluey
Dec. 19, 2010, 05:48 PM
If you really think you need that many small individual turnout pens, how about make them so each two or three have top and bottom gates that connect them and if you are not using them all, you can make a larger turnout by opening several up into one?

Our horse pens are individual, but we can open gates so if only one horse is there, he can have them all to roam in and they love that.

Even when all horses are roaming thru all the pens, it helps them stay smart about gates and how to get around and where to stand and keeps their brains busier and gives their feet more exercise.:)

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 19, 2010, 05:56 PM
I really like the layout of this facility, http://riverrunranch.com/gallery.html. They have big turnouts for each horse. Does anyone have any ideas of the best way to build a barn for that many horses. I can narrow it down to 20 for now.

goodhors
Dec. 19, 2010, 06:25 PM
Plan a barn/shop/garage to park your machinery in. You do not want any gas powered vehicles parked in the horse barn or the hay storage area. A hot muffler can start a fire with hay dirt. Gas storage should also be separated from buildings if possible.

Any consideration for a sprinkler system? Not always possible in the northern areas where it gets cold, but something to think about.

We attended a Fire Safety clinic that covered horse facilities. It was for training the local First Responders to deal with horses in emergency settings, but horse owners were invited to help in communication with non-horse Responders. Help horse owners THINK like Fire folk and modify things so help could work if there was a fire or horse down with injured rider out in the countryside. Learned how to pull a stuck horse, one in a hole, roll one over, keep from getting hurt while doing that!

Have to say it was an AMAZING two day Clinic and changed how I look at EVERYTHING on the farm now.

As mentioned, you need a BIG driveway, parking area, Firetrucks are not small or lightweight. Water supplies at hand. You have got about 4 minutes to get horses out of a burning barn, before it is too hot to survive. They die of smoke and heat inhalation, lungs burned out. The middle barn horses probably won't make it out. YOU will die also, if you try to save them with no protective equipment and oxygen. You need an emergency paddock to turn out into, loose horses WILL run back in. Drive NJs horse is the ONLY one I ever heard that LEFT a burning barn, others just don't go even with the doors open. Fire Clinician said all the above, he NEVER saw one leave by itself.

Blockage of aisleways, non-working doors and exits, greatly hampers getting animals outside. Get your "stuff" out of the way!! Conduit protected wiring, done to code, no overloading circuts with fans, heated buckets. Remove dust from light fixtures, hay chaff from storage areas, aisleways you are driving thru. Ropes for emergency halters are faster to put on than a real halter! Hung at hand for quick use. No trick door closures, locking ideas for gates. Those horses will be left. All my lead ropes now have BIG carabiner clips so fire folks can work them with his gloves on. That clip will snap on any part of the halter to lead a horse outside. Fire folk are NOT allowed to take any protective gear off once they are working a fire. Small clips, button snaps, not good with insulated gloves.

After you get stuff drawn up, go to the Firehouse and ask for critiques from the Fire management folks. They SEE things VERY differently than we do. Notice all kinds of special details about exits, layouts. You have to make your choices then, easy to use or most safe in case of fire? I am sure the Fire Folks would love to have a layout of the barns, farm, so they can go in prepared when called. Invite them out as things get completed, for a walk about to be familiar with your barns.

As I said, going thru stuff with Fire Folk is a real eye-opening experience. Clinic changed how I think now, have my stuff set up in the barns.

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 19, 2010, 06:30 PM
Do people care if a barn is a modular barn or a wooden barn? The modular barns can be half the price and there are ways to paint over the connectors and make them look a little better. I would get wooden fronts but the inside is the kick proof material they all use.

I have been looking at BarnPros as well but havent decided. I am trying to find a efficient way to house all the horses but havent had that much luck.

Thanks for the advice on the fire safety. I know they like modular barns because they dont burn well.

Thanks for the help!

Bluey
Dec. 19, 2010, 06:45 PM
Our vet clinic that does all that embrio transfer and cloning, so has a large amount of horses in and out, built several barns for all that reproductive work and those barns were all modular and very nice, practical barns, that have held up well to heavy use.

Now, if you want to wow high end clients with your first class facilities, then you probably would be better off spending the money in those firms that have the knowhow to produce that kind of planning and facilities.

Renae
Dec. 19, 2010, 07:07 PM
All those little paddocks have a high chance of turning into a icky mud/manure mess. At least that is what I have seen at every facility that has a mess of little paddocks. They are too small to get a tractor with a bucket or a skid loader into to scrape out well, and picking them out by hand is very labor intensive and tends to be something people do not do a very good job with.

You will need some paddocks or pastures that do not have a shared fence. Some horses just do not do well sharing a fence line.

I also echo that you do not need a turnout for each horse. Some training horses will get no turn out, some lay up horses may be on stall rest. Some horses might do better with half day turn out. Other horses can go out together.

Besides plannig for firetrucks and semi trucks for emergencies and deliveries remember to plan all gates so that you can drive a tractor pulling an implement through them.

I have found hot walkers to be one of the most underused, space wasting devices any farm ever installs. If you are the trainer and you know you will use this device on a daily basis that is one thing, but on farms where it is just there that is mostly what it does is sit there. Same with treadmills, both the regular kind and the water kind, if you are going to be the one making sure these devices are used on a regular enough basis to pay for themselves that is one thing, but just to have them to say you have them you will probably find that they get little use (and these are two devices that really need someone experienced in using them to train horses to work on them safely, not something I would let any ol boarder have access to).

I would also say with a facility of such scope that you should look into a professional planner. If you have found a facility you like ask them who built it. You may want a place just like that, but a professional would probably make sure to take into account the lay of your land and waterflow and prevailing winds and such. I worked out of a fancy estate that the drainage work was not done correctly around the barn and indoor arena and the first big rain in the fall after the place was finished both the barn and indoor flooded! A lot of money had to be spent on drainage work and repairing water damage that should not have if things had been planned better.

Bluey
Dec. 19, 2010, 08:25 PM
Hot walkers are used very much in race training barns, mostly to cool horses off.
In western barns, like cutting ones, some to warm up horses, to cool them off and at times to have colts go around with the first saddlings, before they ride them.

It took someone cooling a race horse a good ten minutes, that now can happen on the walker and the groom can be doing something else.

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 19, 2010, 08:36 PM
Updated version here: http://i55.tinypic.com/346s3fr.jpg

Theres going to be more pasture turnouts. I reduces the number of individual paddocks and tried to use the new space for TO. Nothings to scale really. The warm up track is WAY out of scale. I put in a 20 stall barn, some with attached paddocks and those will be the ones that are on minimal turnout.

I want a 4 stall barn for myself and my horses and use it for hay storage as well and add a overhand for the tractor and vehicles. Nothing nice really. Most of the time my horses will be in TO and I prefer they stay out over night sometimes too.

I dont want to build the nicest facility around, I just want it to be nice enough for people of all levels and functional. This part of the center will be for me, general boarders, and my horses in training so it wouldnt be widely used.

I will now work on the next part of the design which would be the dressage part. I am thinking a indoor arena with stalls to the side, attached paddocks, then 12 additional sand ones with shelter, lots of 1-2 acre grass turnouts then a few 4 acre group turnouts.

Tell me what you think of the re-designed training facility posted above. Thanks for the help!

tasia
Dec. 19, 2010, 10:31 PM
I would put the large barn where you have the dressage arena. I would want the barn in between the turnout areas to save steps/time. Also cut down the number of small paddocks and make them larger. This will cut down on injuries if the horses are playing/bucking etc. It would also make them easier to maintain, fertilize, spray etc.. Also make sure you have large enough gates so fertilizer trucks and tractors can get thru easily (14 feet is a good size) If you are putting in shelters, you could also have some horses on night turnout, so you could cut back on the number of small paddocks. I would also lane all the paddocks and pastures, it's more expensive, but will also cut down on injuries and fence repair. Exciting stuff planning your facility :)

tasia
Dec. 19, 2010, 10:39 PM
I would build a separate storage building for vehicles and tractor, the risk of fire would make me nervous. I also wouldn't do attached runs, I just don't like the damage a horse can do to a barn and vice versa. I do have an overhang on my barn where I stored my horse trailer, designed so I could just pull thru. It worked great till I needed more stalls, so built 2 back there and now store hay there as well. If I could I would have a separate building for the hay also.

tasia
Dec. 19, 2010, 11:00 PM
Also, don't forget washracks, grooming stalls/area, shavings storage, and manure. Will you have a service to remove manure, or plan to compost or just spread on pasture if your area will permit that?

You will need labor/staff for this large a facility. You might want to consider living quarters over the barn if possible.

Also might want to consider narrowing down the type of facility. Are you three day eventing or racing etc. Different disciplines tend to like different set ups and might not mesh that well.

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 19, 2010, 11:40 PM
The facility is going to have 3 separate areas. A dressage part, jumping part, and then the combined training facility for me. Barns will be leased out. One big entrance to the farm and three smaller ones but all connect through a road that goes around the farm.

Dressage facility will be based off http://riverrunranch.com/facilities.html. Jumping facility will be based off http://wildturkeyfarm.com/woodside.html. And the multi training will be based off the old Simpatico Stables Facility in Redmond, WA http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=redmond+wa&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=57.379893,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Redmond,+King,+Washington&ll=47.693252,-122.08828&spn=0.003019,0.009012&t=h&z=18. I do 3-Day and the race track is just for exercise and working.

ReSomething
Dec. 19, 2010, 11:49 PM
First things first, when you go to put in for permits you will have to have a topographical survey and site plan - that's every lump, bump, tree and drainage. Then you start plopping stuff on the map. Otherwise you may try to put your barn in a vernal pool because it fits there best. Some states this is far less of an issue than others, where it can land you in more hot water than murder. Hopefully this place is board flat.

I don't like your parking area that much. (in post 15) Ideally you'd have a huge wide two lane at least entry and a pull through for the semi's, which would give you two entrances one at each end of that parking lot. The nicest places I've been to, public facilities of all kinds, have tons of space devoted to vehicles and parking and not too many sharp corners or dead ends. Things need to flow.

I agree about shifting the barn and dressage arena, or swapping the track for the pastures and shifting the barn back. Handling is money, try to do it as little as possible. I'm not sure about the sand turnouts, they seem pointless
What kinds of setbacks are you having to abide by? Standard in the country here is 50'. We are putting in portables here at home as the best spot is within the setback, and if we have to they can be shifted.

Hoping I haven't misread anything, and I'd love to see more!

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 19, 2010, 11:50 PM
I want to incorporate layouts from these facilities as well in the design as well as many others:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=carnation+wa&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=54.533615,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Carnation,+King,+Washington&ll=47.684195,-121.956498&spn=0.003019,0.009012&t=h&z=18
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Wilsonville,+OR&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=54.533615,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Wilsonville,+Clackamas,+Oregon&ll=45.291184,-122.820904&spn=0.00631,0.018024&t=h&z=17
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=redmond+wa&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=57.379893,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Redmond,+King,+Washington&ll=47.692848,-122.088098&spn=0.003019,0.009012&t=h&z=18
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Turkey+Farm+Lane,+Woodside,+CA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=46.092115,42.363281&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Turkey+Farm+Ln,+Woodside,+San+Mateo,+Califor nia+94062&ll=37.416069,-122.260296&spn=0.002519,0.004506&t=h&z=19
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?source=embed&hl=en&geocode=&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=112th+Ave+SE,+Snohomish,+Washington+98290&msa=0&msid=205190622271955833248.0004848afce0c7d4d27db&ll=47.897295,-121.995038&spn=0.003007,0.009012&t=f&z=18&ecpose=47.89739204,-121.99478972,668.84,179.142,0,0
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Pegasus+Training+and+Equine+Rehabilitation+Cente r,+Redmond,+WA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=57.379893,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=Pegasus+Training+and+Equine+Rehabilitation+Cent er,&hnear=Redmond,+King,+Washington&ll=47.667295,-121.992102&spn=0.01208,0.036049&t=h&z=16

Nothing to fancy, just functional and attractive. I think I will do electro-braid in the larger fields and wood-like vinyl in the paddocks.

tasia
Dec. 19, 2010, 11:59 PM
Don't skimp on the fencing. I would choose good fencing over hot walkers.

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 20, 2010, 12:05 AM
I will adjust everything to the land and topography later on. Here is an updated version of my barn. I am going to start with hay in this barn to save money at first.http://i53.tinypic.com/2450yv6.png Later on I can build separate hay storage but I removed vehicle parking and will ad a shed for those. No electricity in this barn probably besides a few lights. If you look at the map here http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=redmond+wa&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=57.379893,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Redmond,+King,+Washington&ll=47.693252,-122.08828&spn=0.003019,0.009012&t=h&z=18 the place next door has a nice big oval driveway that I could put around the barn. I want the track back in the corner because the XC course is in the middle and I may just shift the whole place around that. I am going to take it down to 8 smaller paddocks maybe but keep in mind that these horses are only in this part for training everyday almost and wont be here long enough to match with TO buddies.

I do not want to lane all the paddocks, will double the cost almost but I will have a few in the other part.

SharonA
Dec. 20, 2010, 12:13 AM
I may have missed this.... how much acreage do you have? Also, what part of the country are you in, in terms of temperatures, rain, what winter is like, what summer is like, etc.?

ReSomething
Dec. 20, 2010, 12:16 AM
. . . And the multi training will be based off the old Simpatico Stables Facility in Redmond, WA http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=redmond+wa&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=57.379893,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Redmond,+King,+Washington&ll=47.693252,-122.08828&spn=0.003019,0.009012&t=h&z=18. I do 3-Day and the race track is just for exercise and working.

Okay, an aerial photo is what you want for layout. I have a hard time visualizing from the websites. I see that there is the capability to circle that building with a car and I went out to street view and there is an apron that makes the entry better for a truck, you'll note that the pavement is easily three times the width of the actual entrance and if you come up to make a right into the parking lot it is obvious that folks have had to swing wide onto the dirt there and then crank it over. If this were a road with oncoming traffic that would be a BAD thing. I have to do the same thing at my house, our road is actually a lane and a half and very lightly traveled. 16' of stock trailer and we are on the dirt, longer and we are borrowing the neighbors driveway. Lucky for us there is no ditch. I knew of a place that had a driveway at a 45 degree angle to the road and had long vehicles come from one way. They had a long driveway and the gate was set about 75 feet down that driveway so a semi could pull in off the street.

How many acres do you have to work with?

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 20, 2010, 12:18 AM
Washington. 150+ Acres. Rainy but mostly flat and not to soggy. Will have to made sand or hogfuel in paddocks and in places where horses enter pastures and stand.

ReSomething
Dec. 20, 2010, 12:27 AM
I will adjust everything to the land and topography later on. . . .
. . . I do not want to lane all the paddocks, will double the cost almost but I will have a few in the other part.

I can't recommend placing all your structures without a topo, even enlarging a quad map will do, and working knowledge of what permits you'll need/crap you'll have to abide by. There's just too much that can go wrong. Heck even with a topo etc. there are things that go wrong. Costs can rack up very rapidly if grading is necessary or not permitted due to a water feature.

Lanes in all the paddocks is traditional in the horse farms here but I rarely saw it in Norcal. Hot wire on top usually kept horses from fighting through the fence.

ETA I'm going to dig up some links for you of other places I liked.

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 20, 2010, 12:31 AM
I would love to see some other facilities that you may like to suggest. I think I am going to make the parking lot a grass paddock, move the parking lot next to the barn and then simplify the paddock arrangement. I like where I have the barn and the facility that this is based off was pretty functional with it there besides all the paddocks away so far.

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 20, 2010, 12:32 AM
Forgot to mention that this part is meant to cover 20 acres or less. May be bigger depending on layout after im done.

Defiantly going to avoid crowding like this...... http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Riders+Edge+Farm&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=57.379893,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=Riders+Edge+Farm&hnear=&ll=47.699047,-122.077289&spn=0.001464,0.004506&t=h&z=19

ReSomething
Dec. 20, 2010, 12:48 AM
I've decided to respect these farms' privacy and have deleted my posts.

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 20, 2010, 12:56 AM
I defiantly am going to try to incorporate the circular driveway. I may not add a hay storage to this part because it isn't the biggest part of the facility and across the street will be the dressage facility.

Thought I would share a few videos of the facility I like too http://www.youtube.com/user/SimpaticoStables.

I may have a new design ready tonight!

ReSomething
Dec. 20, 2010, 01:28 AM
I'm bummed. There is only so much you can do with google. I wanted to show you my re-ridng trainer's new place but it doesn't look that great from the air, (although the Coverall arena looks good), and a place that I have been to is too new and shows up as a field. Their website is very pretty also, just can't see how it is laid out LOL! Keep looking, remember you don't want it too big,too small or awkwardly laid out, you want to save steps literally and figuratively just like a kitchen. Have fun!

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 20, 2010, 01:32 AM
I am still a little worried about removing many of the paddocks because here in WA all out horses are kept in individual paddocks unlike many other parts of the country. You will see my new changes but I feel its necessary to have 15+ since people here do not prefer group turnout although I will offer that as well. I've never been at a barn with group paddocks, just larger turnout fields.

I added more stalls and a arena just because I feel that its important if the rest of the project gets delayed and it makes it easier to have a larger amount of stalls. There are 5 medium sized grass turnouts, 5 large sand paddocks (2 horse max), 8 smaller sanded paddocks, 2 with lanes, new loop to driveway and a new exit for easy semi-access, parking lot moved in a little so no quick turns. Still need to fill in the area to the bottom right with something....

Tell me what you think http://i56.tinypic.com/vifrlh.jpg

ReSomething
Dec. 20, 2010, 02:09 AM
^ This one I like much better! And you always need some pretty lawn for extra parking during shows, you might keep that space open. Hope some others will chime back in with things that I haven't thought of, I'm off to bed now. Where's your barn going to be in there?

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 20, 2010, 02:14 AM
Since I added stalls there is no need for a separate barn right now, just a waste of money. I can house school horses here now as well.

Bluey
Dec. 20, 2010, 02:43 AM
Since I added stalls there is no need for a separate barn right now, just a waste of money. I can house school horses here now as well.

Plans like these have a way to evolve, start one way and go thru many changes and some times come back to a mixture close to where you started, others something completely different.

Don't let planning drive you nuts and obsess over it, it is in the game stage now.;)
The more you get to play at planning, the better the end result.:yes:

All the planning will cement what you really want to do, how and why.:cool:

BasqueMom
Dec. 20, 2010, 03:29 AM
The PVC fence for the small paddocks--think you will find the horses kicking a lot of the planks out without it being electrified. That's been the experience of several places that I've boarded at in the past or customers I've talked with.

In the barn, I'd highly recommend stalls where the horses can see each other.
At minimum, dutch doors so they can poke their heads and see what's going on. Mine have always been happier and calmer in facilities with those arrangements.

Alley ways between the large paddocks always a good idea. One barn I boarded at had a bit of walk to the large turnout pastures but they had an
alley way they could funnel each group into and get them close to the barn.

Lots of room for tractor trailers to manuever in and out, large enough gates in pastures and lanes for equipment and a truck/trailer to get into if needed
to get to a horse that needs transport.

carolprudm
Dec. 20, 2010, 08:49 AM
Lots of good info here
http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/freepubs/pdfs/ub034.pdf

You should also consult your local natural resources agency for help in minimizing run off, both sediment and nutrients.

ReSomething
Dec. 20, 2010, 09:52 AM
I'm sorry to come back with the Debbie Downer angle, I was having so much fun last night "moving furniture".

Many years ago I worked for an architect and before that my dad, who was in the trades as a Civil Engineer. We would have first started with the "buildable lot", which means septic, water and power. You have to allow for your septic system in the plan and if this is all new construction it could be a hard do. If you have city water and sewer you are good to go after the application of money. But,we don't all live close to town.

If your property fails to perk, which basically means that a hole is dug and the rate that water percolates into the soil is measured, you may be in trouble. We don't perk here in KY, and we have the option to have a lagoon system which means we have our own little stinky pond fenced off about 100 feet from the house. There are a whole slew of rules regarding how close to wells, ponds and streams or rivers that thing can be.

Old places often function under different rules which were usually in effect at the time they were built and sometimes this gets very difficult if the septic system fails and there isn't enough room on the lot. Then you wind up with mounds and curtain systems and two tanks yada yada
and maybe restrictions on enlarging or remodeling the house. Some of these systems run upwards of $50K and if you are talking about a public facility, well, they may deny you. WA might be easier but the county I grew up in in CA totally sucked. My dad was a busy man.

This may be old news to you, but I've met people who live with septic systems and have no idea where they are or how they work.

And that is why you go in with your topo and all your items sited on the topo.

Definitely keep working on your plan but like Bluey says, often it is a work in progress up to the day you move in, and even beyond.

ETA we just had a thread on here about housing your indoor and the barn together and how to deal with the dust issue, if you've modified your barn you might review the thread and think about that too. http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=282879

SharonA
Dec. 20, 2010, 11:02 AM
It is so much fun to plan all this stuff, I think!

My personal choice would be to plan the barn so that each stall has a decent-sized paddock directly off the stall, for an in/out situation. Then you don't need the individual paddocks separate from the barn, and no one has to lead the horses to or from the paddocks, as the horses will have their own direct access 24/7. With 150 flat acres, you have the room. :-) (she says jealously :-) ). The horses also can just drink the water in their stalls, so you don't have to be taking water buckets/installing water to each little individual paddock (if you weren't planning on providing water in each paddock, don't even tell me that. :-) )

I would flip the positions of the dressage arena and the current barn/indoor, so that I could have the barn/indoor with the turnouts off the stalls. But, I am not wedded to an attached indoor, especially if you're not dealing with feet of snow and ice. Our barn's indoor isn't attached and is probably about 100 yards from the barn, but it's really not a big deal, especially with everything else a barn can have going for it (I'll take huge turnout pastures and top-notch care over an attached indoor anyday, but of course that's just me). I guess I would separate the barn and indoor, as that just gives so much more flexibility. Especially if you can design the barn so that there is a separate well-lit tacking/grooming area, so people aren't trying to get by each other while horses are cross-tied across the aisle, and the vet or farrier is trying to work with a horse in the middle of the aisle while you're trooping past with other horses, buckets of grain, loads of hay, etc., that's really nice too, I think.

I might put the indoor next to the road, which would be convenient for truck-ins, should there ever be some of those.

I would move the xc-field back further and then closer to the main facility area, I would have a drive-through storage barn for hay on one side, farm machinery on another completely separate side.

Of course, no one knows better than you how you would use these spaces, to, take my comments with a grain of salt.

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 20, 2010, 07:37 PM
I also like this farm with the run offs and how they made there covered arena extend to a outdoor arena http://cadburyfarm.com/2.html.

tasia
Dec. 20, 2010, 08:15 PM
I like the combined covered arena outdoor arena. I'm not a big fan of runs off the stalls. Too much fighting over fence even with electric. I also wouldn't want horses actually running in those long narrow turnouts.

Bluey
Dec. 20, 2010, 08:33 PM
I like the combined covered arena outdoor arena. I'm not a big fan of runs off the stalls. Too much fighting over fence even with electric. I also wouldn't want horses actually running in those long narrow turnouts.

That has not been our experience.
We used to keep our four stallions, three race bred, one ranch bred, in the stalls with runs off the end of our barn.
All they had between each run was a 6' V mesh fence on pipe post 8' apart, with an horizontal pipe on the top and middle.
We didn't have any hot wires in those days.

They didn't fight at all, some times they postured with arched necks and low nickering.
In windy or cold weather, they played around feeling good, otherwise, they were out there half asleep.
We never had an injury and they were happy campers.

Those half covered arenas have one drawback and that is that the footing tends to feel different under the cover and on the outside part, not be even all over.
That is ok if you only ride on one or the other part, like classes or shows under cover and using the open part as a warm up pen, or the other way around.

Rena
Dec. 20, 2010, 10:50 PM
Washington. 150+ Acres. Rainy but mostly flat and not to soggy. Will have to made sand or hogfuel in paddocks and in places where horses enter pastures and stand.

What a wonderful project, you are so lucky to be able to plan all this out. And it must be a bit daunting, to get the balance between financial, permits, and your dreams.

My main questions revolve around basic horse management. What will the largest pasture on the property be? Will there be a couple of say, 10 acres pastures with shelters so some horses can live in a herd, out 24/7?

If I were to design a facility, I'd plan for smaller barns, so every box stall has direct access to some kind of paddocks, some with double fencing and 6ft panels for stallions, some 24X 36 or such so two horses can share the same corral attached to both their stalls. I never understood the need for many tiny individual turn-outs.

Can one person can feed & clean for a couple of days without needing to handle every single horse for basic turnout? That would efficient, practical -- and good for the horses. Stalled horses would have some space 24/7, and there would be large pastures with shelters for the rest.

I can't tell the scale on the plans in the drawing. Like others mentioned, what about easy access for large vehicles with trailers?
Can a large rig, hay delivery etc turn around?
Any chance a circular driveway could go around the parking?
Is there space for one or two larger 4 or 6 horse trailers for your future boarders to turn around and park?
Speaking of access, don't put fancy gateposts on the main entry gate if they impede easy in/out by said large trailers!

I cut little trucks&trailers (just small paper rectangles) to scale and moved them around on the drawings for my place to see if they could turn around.

I realize that any change in plans could mean $$$ and there may be county rules.

Speaking of counties, and perhaps before finalizing plans, are there any elements in your plans that are fixed (location determined by county permit planners)? Manure compost/disposal site comes to mind. Septic access for a barn restroom? Quarters for ranch help or guests?

It's fun to think about such things :)

One more thing: the cross country would be so much fun! I would also plan for some trail access to ride around the whole property if possible ..

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 21, 2010, 01:57 PM
While I was walking around today, our current neighbors property gave me a idea. They have a nice long shed for equipment and hay on the other part of the building, a 3 horse paddock and a big pasture. Here is a picture of the house and the 2 horses (unfortunately starved to death) http://info.kingcounty.gov/Assessor/eRealProperty/ShowImage.aspx?sPath=\\SHADOW\PRODUCTION$\23-08\1023089238\700729.JPG and a map of the property http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=42704+se+120th+st+north+bend+wa&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=57.379893,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=42704+SE+120th+St,+North+Bend,+King,+Washing ton+98045&ll=47.492729,-121.76696&spn=0.001515,0.004506&t=h&z=19. This is our current farm for sale which was another boarding facility we ran, pasture boarding only.

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 21, 2010, 01:57 PM
Sorry picture doesn't work.

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 21, 2010, 02:01 PM
http://i54.tinypic.com/r1wsuv.png

hitchinmygetalong
Dec. 21, 2010, 02:58 PM
What's your budget?

Rena
Dec. 21, 2010, 03:57 PM
This is our current farm for sale which was another boarding facility we ran, pasture boarding only.

Nice tall trees! Now I'm curious .. so you have experience running a pasture boarding place with horses all out together. Why would you consider designing a new place with all those individual turnouts? I realize your plans are changing, just asking to get a feeling about how what you think the future boarders would like. I see new facilities here without pasture or horses out in groups, even where the space is available.

Not that I don't get needing a barn or all the amenities of a full service place!

ReSomething
Dec. 22, 2010, 02:11 AM
links and post removed

hitchinmygetalong
Dec. 22, 2010, 06:21 AM
^^^
Please note the rounded "corners" on the paddocks.

No corners to get trapped in by other horses. No corners to smash through while running the fence.

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 23, 2010, 12:47 AM
I like the Kentucky TB famrs a lot but some things I dont like about them. I really dont like the rounded corners and the seperates pastures. Such a waste of space and money. You could fit a whole nother pasture in.

The rounded corners are fine in some placed but not for us. Another waste of space and if the horses turned out together will corner each other they should be turned out seperatley. My grandma ran our old place and there were 20 horses together at one point and its what she believed in. Some carries over to me... I dont like to pamper them that much... I dont believe in blankets unless its freezing rain....

I do like stalls for feeding and your not going to make money in a pasture boarding facility although its going to be offered. People here worrk to much about their horses so they are not turned out together unless they are just pets which is what we had out here when I was younger.

I want some bigger 3-5 acre turnouts for 2 horses or so at the entrance and around the farm. Ill get back to the plans tonight and post more tomorrow hopefully.

Here is another place I found today: http://www.bing.com/maps/#JnE9LjI0MjIxK05vcnRoZWFzdCtVbmlvbitIaWxsK1JvYWQlM mMrUmVkbW9uZCUyYytXQSs5ODA1My04NjAyJTdlc3N0LjAlN2V wZy4xJmJiPTQ3LjY3ODkwNzA5NjI5NDklN2UtMTIyLjA5NTUzM jEyODY1NiU3ZTQ3LjY3MTIxMTY2OTgwNTklN2UtMTIyLjExMzU xMzY1Nzg5Mg==

I also liked the arena and layout of this place from the looks: http://emeraldglenstables.com/EGS/Photos.html

ReSomething
Dec. 23, 2010, 02:22 AM
You're right, having the alleys uses up potential pasture space. But they make an instant conditioning trail. I use our alleys for dog-walking. Round corners are just a custom with the TB's here. My trainer has both squared paddocks and fenceline that follows contours, and only one set of paddocks have an alley, for the stallion.


From the air the Bing map looks nice, spacious without being a quarter mile from turnout to stalls - have you actually been there and used the facility?

hitchinmygetalong
Dec. 23, 2010, 06:21 AM
Sorry to repeat my question, but you may have missed it.

What is your budget?

Thanks!

tasia
Dec. 23, 2010, 09:19 AM
What type of boarders are you trying to attract? That will dictate a lot of your set up. I would really consider the laning of the paddocks. Yes it uses more space, but it cuts down on board replacement and injuries. I do have rounded corners on my pastures and paddocks. Wasn't more expensive to do. Not only does it keep horses from trapping one another, it is also easier to maintain with equipment.

If you are offering full board, blanketing will be expected. You might be able to charge extra for it, but it will be expected.

Not trying to rain on your parade, just food for thought. Planning a facility of this type is very exciting.

hiddenbrooknb
Dec. 23, 2010, 07:03 PM
Our facility is ment to attrack boarders of all disiplines and offer specific arenas and barns for dressage, jumpers, and then a combined training area which is where I am going to be doing most of my training out of. I recently got interested in the training of retired racehorses and also mustangs and want to train them for jumping and lower level dressage.

I am going to charge around 700-800 per month for boarding and 450 or so for paddock/pasture boarding which will only be avaliable on a limited basis. If I were to do rounded corners I would make it so 2 pastures are attached at lease and then have aisles in between, just not every pasture.

The budget is not completly set because its going to take years to complete this project and there wont be a set budget. I will say the arena will be about $12 per square foot without footing and we are going to put in GGT footings. The indoor jump arena is going to be around 160,000 and going to have attached stalls maybe.

We might go with some barns like this from barn pros http://barnpros.com/products/american/sierra72aa.html or have them custom build by Northwest Equestrian Services (Builder), Equine Concepts (Stalls) and White Horse Barns (Arenas). I want the colors of this farm if you can see this album http://www.facebook.com/pages/Yes-I-do-ride-horses-No-I-dont-just-sit-there-Thanks-for-asking/246766767841#!/album.php?aid=166311&id=77585884880. They have low sugar grass pastures which I may do in a couple closer to the barns for a few hours of grazing each day.

I am going to go with ElectroBraid for the fencing in the bigger pastures http://www.electrobraid.com/. Its not to expensive or cheap and it does the job. Defiantly not doing vinyl or wood for the big pastires. In the paddocks im still deciding if I should do trated wood with welded wire so I can use it for the smaller animals too or go with wood grain vinyl.

I will have a few stronger pastures for the stallions too.

hiddenbrooknb
Jan. 2, 2011, 05:56 PM
Does anyone have experience using clearspan products sold through farmtek? (http://www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/home) I was thinking of going with coverall structures but they recently were sold to another company and I believe they are a little to pricey. I was thinking of looking at a 20 stall clearspan barn and replace 4 of the stalls used for wash and tack for the school horses and mine as well and maybe one for boarding??? A small riding school in Oregon has this setup (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=35215+SW+Tongue+Ln+Cornelius+OR&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=48.50801,113.818359&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=35215+SW+Tongue+Ln,+Cornelius,+Washington,+O regon+97113&ll=45.484451,-123.038863&spn=0.00132,0.004495&t=h&z=19) and it seems to be pretty functional with the attached paddocks.

I have also been looking to relocate to the East Coast but only to continue this project.