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Tachiana
Nov. 16, 2003, 08:35 AM
Please someone tell me, I hear his name all the time!!

Tachiana
Nov. 16, 2003, 08:35 AM
Please someone tell me, I hear his name all the time!!

Nauset
Nov. 16, 2003, 08:36 AM
GM= George Morris; Legendary horseman

..:*:..:*:..:*:.BAS.:*:..:*:..:*:..
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect, it means you've learned to look beyond the imperfections.

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Weatherford
Nov. 16, 2003, 10:52 AM
Go buy the books "Hunter Seat Equitation" and "AMerican Style of Jumping" and READ them!!

Like GM or not, he wrote two classics!

It's OUT! Linda Allen's 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

horse addict
Nov. 16, 2003, 02:17 PM
George Morris. He also critiques riders in Practical Horseman each month. Like him or not, most hunter/jumper people think he is a god. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

*****************************
[m.a.r.i.s.s.a]

Cliques: Baby Green Support Group, Canadian, Mares!, and YCMH.

tyedyecommando
Nov. 16, 2003, 03:18 PM
Even though George himself seems to be a bit too much at times, his books are a MUST read. They have information that is relevant to most disciplines especially Hunter/Jumper. They are full or great information on "proper" riding and has pictures of some of the great classic riders.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"Cause I'm hella cool, that's why."
- Eric Cartman

findeight
Nov. 16, 2003, 03:33 PM
As a small child he was told to take up tennis he was such a disaster on a pony...he overcompensated by winning in the Eq ring, including the Medal Finals and representing the USA on the International circuit and at the Rome Olympics. He wrote the book on Equitation from a standpoint of riding efficiently and coached many Eq champions. Also coached the International riders who followed him and still is considered the expert that the experts call when they need help.

Given his record of accomplishements one can forgive the sometimes overblown ego, he has mellowed lately too.

He still runs a full time operation training riders and horses but, at 66, is slowing down on that front and he gives clinics year round all over the place.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.

Pirateer
Nov. 16, 2003, 03:41 PM
People don't think of him as A god...they think of him AS god.

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Rebecca and SNL (Stewie)
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Linny
Nov. 17, 2003, 03:11 PM
As the joke goes:
A horseperson dies and goes to Heaven, where he signs up for riding lessons. Shortly after, she notices a guy in breeches, fitted polo and spurs is always there, barking orders and expecting prompt reaction. After a time she gets up the nerve to ask who he is. The response? Oh, that's God, he thinks he's George Morris!

Resident racing historian
Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

-Bailey-
Nov. 17, 2003, 03:13 PM
George Morris, the greatest horsemen you'll ever see! he's amazing!

Love you all-

"Just because something is a little banged up doesen't mean you throw it away" -Tom Smith

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MistyBlue
Nov. 17, 2003, 04:24 PM
LOL, I usually ride with this thought in mind,
"WWGMS?"

Which means: What Would George Morris Say?

Read his books and grab a copy of PH and check out the jumping clinic. He's a vastly talented trainer, a bit touchy but mellowing, and worth listening to. He hasn't written A book on jumping and Eq, he's written THE books on them.

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bigbay
Nov. 17, 2003, 04:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Linny:
As the joke goes:
A horseperson dies and goes to Heaven, where he signs up for riding lessons. Shortly after, she notices a guy in breeches, fitted polo and spurs is always there, barking orders and expecting prompt reaction. After a time she gets up the nerve to ask who he is. The response? Oh, that's God, he thinks he's George Morris!

Resident racing historian
Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Had not heard that one yet. Thanks Linny!

findeight
Nov. 17, 2003, 04:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Linny:
As the joke goes:
A horseperson dies and goes to Heaven, where he signs up for riding lessons. Shortly after, she notices a guy in breeches, fitted polo and spurs is always there, barking orders and expecting prompt reaction. After a time she gets up the nerve to ask who he is. The response? Oh, that's God, he thinks he's George Morris!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Flip side of this is that it's not God and it's not heaven. The new arrival spends eternity taking lessons from satan himself http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Without irons.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.

Anyplace Farm
Nov. 17, 2003, 04:45 PM
I will cry when he goes. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif There is no one who could ever fill his shoes.

`````````````````````````````````````````
"I NOW INFORM YOU THAT YOU ARE TOO FAR FROM REALITY."
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"Life ain't certain...ride your best horse first." Unknown

CTM
Nov. 17, 2003, 05:22 PM
Loved his Between Rounds last week..

bigbay
Nov. 17, 2003, 05:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
Go buy the books "Hunter Seat Equitation" and "AMerican Style of Jumping" and READ them!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tachiana, I think the second book is actually "American Jumping Style", just in case you go looking for it in the library or somewhere and can't find it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HunterDeluxe
Nov. 17, 2003, 08:29 PM
George Morris. He also critiques riders in Practical Horseman each month. Like him or not, most hunter/jumper people think he is a god.

*****************************
[m.a.r.i.s.s.a]

That's because he IS a god! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tachiana
Nov. 17, 2003, 11:34 PM
What has he actually done to obtain this god like status?? I know he is a talented horseman, but I see so many other talented trainer's!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

HunterDeluxe
Nov. 18, 2003, 02:34 AM
Tachiana, I think the anwer to your question lies in the above posts. The man is a legend.

Dancing Lawn
Nov. 18, 2003, 03:47 AM
Sorry, but I'll take Bill Steinkrause over G.M. any day.

less hard work, more fine dining.
www.dancinglawnhorses.com (http://www.dancinglawnhorses.com)

If guys can do it, how hard can it be?

Beast Of Burden
Nov. 18, 2003, 05:33 AM
I'm not too crazy about him, what has he done lately?

-----
I'll never be your beast of burdon, All I wanted was for you to make love to me!

lauriep
Nov. 18, 2003, 05:57 AM
George's talent lies not only in the fact that he was 1) the youngest winner ever of the Medal and Maclay and 2) a winner at the highest levels internationally, but even more importantly, he was also able to become a TEACHER of these skills, something that many cannot do. The list of his students reads like a who's who of hunter/jumper-dom. His books are considered bibles because his system WORKS. And now, he has turned his attention from producing top equitation riders to jumper riders and doing clinics and STILL is tremendously successful (does the name Chris Kappler ring a bell)? Billy was probably a much better rider (George will tell you that too), but for one reason or another, he chose not to teach, and that is where George's true talents surfaced. And in my book, his respect for the caretakers is what sets him apart. No one acknowledges more than he does what an important part of the team the grooms are.

He is not a "god", but the sport will be very much the worse off when he isn't around any longer.

Beast of Burden, have you ever even met the man?

Laurie

Beast Of Burden
Nov. 18, 2003, 07:49 AM
Yeah, I wasn't too impressed.

-----
I'll never be your beast of burdon, All I wanted was for you to make love to me!

lauriep
Nov. 18, 2003, 08:01 AM
Why don't you elaborate? You weren't impressed with his teaching, his demeanor, his looks, his riding, his (you fill in the blank)?

Laurie

Beast Of Burden
Nov. 18, 2003, 08:05 AM
Never saw him ride, I'm just not too impressed. If he actually did something in the past twenty years maybe I would be a little more impressed.

-----
I'll never be your beast of burdon, All I wanted was for you to make love to me!

Lord Helpus
Nov. 18, 2003, 08:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tachiana:
I know he is a talented horseman, but I see so many other talented trainer's!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. And probably 75% of them rode with GM and/or were his assistants when they were younger.

They are talented trainers because they learned directly from GM or teach his system. He, in turn, learned from Gordon Wright and Otto Heuckeroth, as did some of his best contemporaries.

To trace George's theories and understand where he began, read Gordon Wright's books also.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

lauriep
Nov. 18, 2003, 08:14 AM
Well, you clearly have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about if you think he has done nothing in the last 20 years. Perhaps Chris Kappler, Anne Kursinski, Leslie Burr Howard, etc., would be interested in hearing this, since they RIDE with him or are helped by him before big competitions.

Or perhaps the thousands and thousands of riders and auditors that attend his 100's of clinics would be interested to hear he is doing nothing for them.

Or the equitation riders who ride with Frank Madden (and others), who is a former student of GM's and learned nearly everything he knows from George.

Or the USET who has benefitted immensely from George's stints as chef d'equipe for the teams we have fielded.

It is fine to criticize someone with specifics, but apparently you can't do that, which indicates to me you don't know him, or of him and his contributions to the sport.

Do I idolize him? Yes and no. I am one of his biggest fans, but I also know that even he has had some missteps, but they do not detract from what he has offered this sport. His contributions are right up there with Bert's, IMO.

Laurie

Nickelodian
Nov. 18, 2003, 08:18 AM
Careful Laurie, don't want to be taken by a stinky rotten Troll.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Heineken
Nov. 18, 2003, 08:19 AM
Let's not forget Nona Garson in the list of international stars he has helped mold. I also know McClain has worked with him a ton as well.

I met him a few years ago in Florida and he couldn't have been more personable, more friendly or more willing to help me out. While I'm sure he would say I'm a bit overweight if I rode in a clinic with him, he was delightful as a human being.

Beast Of Burden
Nov. 18, 2003, 08:29 AM
Are we discussing how delightful he is or that he is "GOD". Yes, he is personable, he is delightful, but God?

I think it's a lot of hype.

-----
I'll never be your beast of burdon, All I wanted was for you to make love to me!

Linny
Nov. 18, 2003, 08:39 AM
Last fall I saw him get on a rather rank, green horse. The mare was talented but headstrong. GM rode her for 20 minutes, talking the entire time to the clinic's auditors and participants. The entire ride was at the trot and canter and he never stopped talking or riding. It was great to see.
GM isn't God, he isn't a god. What he is is a great horseman who knows how to develop more great horemen.

Resident racing historian
Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

lauriep
Nov. 18, 2003, 08:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>He is not a "god", but the sport will be very much the worse off when he isn't around any longer.


Laurie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh, I think I addressed the "god" issue already.

Thanks, nick, for the troll alert. I STILL get sucked in sometimes! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Laurie

Beast Of Burden
Nov. 18, 2003, 09:13 AM
That he got on a rank green horse does impress me.

-----
I'll never be your beast of burdon, All I wanted was for you to make love to me!

sesroh
Nov. 18, 2003, 09:39 AM
After reading old threads I noticed there was a very different sentiment about GM when the Florida impaling accident happened a few years ago.

Dancing Lawn
Nov. 18, 2003, 12:14 PM
The Florida Impaling Accident? Please explain!I spend all my time now in the back woods of Ontario, and I don't get out much. I seem to be missing out on a lot of stuff!

less hard work, more fine dining.
www.dancinglawnhorses.com (http://www.dancinglawnhorses.com)

If guys can do it, how hard can it be?

trailblazer
Nov. 18, 2003, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dancing lawn:
The Florida Impaling Accident? Please explain!I spend all my time now in the back woods of Ontario, and I don't get out much. I seem to be missing out on a lot of stuff!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=6656094911&f=7076024331&m=9856088031&p=1

AWIP
Nov. 18, 2003, 12:35 PM
It was a sad, freak accident. Given the move towards plastic poles, you could end up with the same situation jumping a skinny fence on a cold winter day. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

lauriep
Nov. 18, 2003, 12:40 PM
Agreed, "A_Work". As we all know, freak accidents happen all the time with horses, and this was one of them.

Safety is a BIG issue with George; he is not one to do anything to harm a horse or a person. The particular type of fence with a metal pole was something that every trainer I have worked for has used at some time, and was a popular schooling option. This was the first time I know of it to ever go badly. I HAVE seen a bamboo split and cut a horse that landed on it, however, but they are still in use...

Laurie

Anne
Nov. 18, 2003, 12:50 PM
Beast of Burden, I BELIEVE that George's victory on Jane Clark's Rio in the $1,000,000 du Maurier Grand Prix at Spruce Meadows still falls within your 20 year time frame. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Fullilove
Nov. 18, 2003, 12:52 PM
Does George do clinics?

Blinky
Nov. 18, 2003, 01:21 PM
Is that you Colin?

Hopeful Hunter
Nov. 18, 2003, 01:40 PM
My young trainer took my not-quite-yet-finished OTTB show hunter to a clinic with him in PA for me last spring, and I went up with a friend to groom and absorb. GM had decided to move my horse from the mediums up to the highs, which had me somewhat nervous as the horse had at that point never jumped higher than 2'9", and certainly not 3'6" jumper-style fences!

GM didn't love my horse, which since he was the only hunter there wasn't a shock. He did point out that the horse was just not in front of my trainer's leg (very properly, and it gave us something that we've really worked on now) and when he asked the horse's age, upon being told he said "he rides more like a 4 yr old than an 8 yr old" which, given that the horse was just 2.5 yrs off the track and has been sloooowly brought along, was also about right.

But even though he didn't like the horse (and don't we all want him to? especially one we've retrained ourselves?) I felt it was a very good use of my time and money. I truly saw what needed to be done to get my horse more responsive; we got a killer figure-8 jumping exercise from it; and I saw my horse have the athleticism to jump a liverpool, some 3'6" fences and to even get in badly and trot over one of them! If for nothing else, it showed me there was NO reason for that horse to ever not jump a 2'6" fence - ever, no matter how bad the spot, if he could trot the huge oxer, he could do what we were doing then.

Is he a warm, fuzzy guy? Absolutely not. Is he demanding? Yes. Did he give his former students and "pets" much more lattitude? Yes. Was he worth our effort? 100% yes!

GM isn't god in my eyes, but he is one outstanding trainer. You don't have to love him to learn from him, and I'd encourage everyone to try to see him teach or ride with him if you've got the courage (I don't!) some time.

Tachiana
Nov. 18, 2003, 01:51 PM
Sounds like he knows his stuff! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Would he ever take a student that had limited funds??

Hopeful Hunter
Nov. 18, 2003, 02:13 PM
I dunno. The clinic wasn't dirt cheap -- I think about $285 for the one day, but worth it. Auditing isn't cheap, either (anywhere from $50 - $100 depending on teh venue) but also very worth it. I know his home farm is up for sale so he may be scaling back his individual teaching to do more clinic-type events. I'm sure someone on the boards has ridden with him and knows far more than I do...

lauriep
Nov. 18, 2003, 02:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jessey:
Does George do clinics?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hundreds, all over the world, and has done them for 30 years or more.

Laurie

MistyBlue
Nov. 18, 2003, 02:45 PM
Yep, and they're fabulous learning tools. I've been to lots of clinics...none better than GM's, IMO. But if you're the feel good, needing handholding flowers and praise type rider...don't go to a GM clinic, LOL! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

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almosta
Nov. 18, 2003, 03:07 PM
I'm going to get FLAMED and I know it but I just wanted to add my 2 cents worth. No matter how wonderful a rider or trainer GM is or how many wonderful riders he has taught/made, his nasty/foul disposition is an overriding factor ...no he isn't god...not even close! Yes, I have met GM and personally witnessed his bad temper in a resturant - he was ranting and raving at a waitress and and generally making a very loud scene - it was so bad that the person sitting with GM got up and left the table and came over and sat at my table and made no secret of the fact that he was too embarressed to sit with GM any longer. There was NO excuse for GM's rude and crude behavoir.... It's a shame he isn't anywhere as nice as Hap Hanson (see that thread) appears to be - then all the people that claim GM is God might, just might, have a little bit of a leg to stand on regarding him.

Catwoman
Nov. 18, 2003, 03:29 PM
Hopeful Hunter, why do you say he didn't like your horse? When I audited a clinic several years ago, I saw him be hard on riders, but not once did I hear him say a disparaging remark about a horse.

My horse is going to a clinic with GM in a couple of weeks, and I don't care what bad things he says to or about me (my trainer is riding him), but unless he feels my horse is unsafe, I don't expect to hear anything disparaging about him. He's going there to be a better horse--not to be judged. Am I being overly sensitive?

The clinic I audited, BTW was fantastic. And when I asked him to autograph my copy of his book, he was really very nice. He is not God, but he is one of the greatest horsemen ever.

ALF
Nov. 18, 2003, 04:02 PM
GM isnt God, but if you wanted to ride on the USET in the 70's and 80's, you had to let him think he was. His reputation is based on the success of his clients, and back then he could attract the best clients because of how much say he had in who would make the team. Riders from other countries had nothing to gain from his pull with the USET, and most of them gave it a year or two with him and moved on.

Now that the selection is more objective, he's just another BNE. Sure he knows a lot, but you wont learn anything in his clinic that you can't get for less $ from his book. You'll get more for your clinic $ by getting a few schools from a local trainer who knows his/her stuff.

Izabella
Nov. 18, 2003, 04:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tachiana:
Sounds like he knows his stuff! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Would he ever take a student that had limited funds??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a great question, would GM take clients that could not afford big fancy expensive horses, couldn't afford to travel week to week and actuall had a job?
I would say probably not, so how can you lose when you have nothing but wealthy people as customer's?

bigbay
Nov. 18, 2003, 04:20 PM
I think GM would be willing to take any client with a work ethic.

Hopeful Hunter
Nov. 18, 2003, 06:02 PM
Catwoman -- well......by moving my horse up to the highs, GM put him up there with several riders who had been his students. All of these riders had big, explosive jumper types, and most of them did the High jumpers and I think one may be aiming toward the Grand Prixs. My OTTB is just 16hh and was frankly a bit nervous that day and just outclassed.

GM HATED how he wasn't in front of my trainer's leg -- he was totally correct about it, though, but part of the issue was that the horse had never been to a place like this, seen jumps like that and frankly, my trainer (who is only 22 and a good, solid, local level trainer) was nervous and not giving him the best ride she could have.

So...GM harangued the horse for not being forward enough, for not being brilliant enough over the fences, for not being catty enough around the tight figure-8 jump exercise into a corner. He also wanted the horse ridden on more contact than he's used to -- a more jumper-style if you will, with a deeper seat and tighter hold. My trainer adjusted, but it's not her style, either - she's more typey huntery riding. She did get kudos for properly using her crop over the liverpool, and hey, SHE didn't fall off like one of GM's favorites nor get dumped by an idiot horse like another (small brag - but those women were still GREAT riders on difficult, talented horses).

My feelings for my "baby" were a bit hurt, I'll admit, but the value overwhelmed that. Basically, my horse jumped things he's NEVER gonna see in a hunter ring -- and he DID jump them. He showed a desire to try, a lot of scope, and although he was scared he didn't blow. I was pleased. I think had he done the mediums as I'd originally planned he would not have been stretched so much (and we might not have seen the holes so well, which was valuable in itself) but he would have "shown" better.

Hope that helps...if anyone was there, it was the clinic in spring of this year at Patricia Rothman's place, and my horse was the small chestnut.

Medievalist
Nov. 18, 2003, 07:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Unspecified:

Now that the selection is more objective, he's just another BNE. Sure he knows a lot, but you wont learn anything in his clinic that you can't get for less $ from his book. You'll get more for your clinic $ by getting a few schools from a local trainer who knows his/her stuff.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What the heck is a BNE? And isn't a local trainer who knows his/her stuff an oxymoron? (j/k!)

Time to jingle for my GREs! I'm serious. Jingle jingle jingle! GRE has been resceduled. "Technical difficulties" my donkey...
Centre Equestre de la Houssaye (http://www.eii.fr/club/houssaye)

ALF
Nov. 18, 2003, 07:51 PM
BNE = Big Noisy Ego

I suppose a local trainer who knows her stuff would be an oxymoron.

MistyBlue
Nov. 18, 2003, 08:14 PM
"You'll get more for your clinic $ by getting a few schools from a local trainer who knows his/her stuff."

Hee hee, giggle, snort, chuckle...guffaw!
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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S4zeus
Nov. 18, 2003, 08:28 PM
I just looked up American Jumping Style on half.com and found it for $120.00 http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I have Hunter Seat Equitation. I can't believe the price on this book. Does anyone know where I can find it cheaper?!?

Common sense is the least common thing in the world.


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nyc_rider
Nov. 18, 2003, 08:29 PM
Some of these comments astound me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I can't imagine that GM's personal style or his behavior in one instance at a restaurant would be soooo greivous that it undermines his training system, accomplishments and his personal influence on the development of American hunt seat riding.

"What has he done lately???" Why have we become such a disrepectful society? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Come on people. Let me know when you're 66 years old, how many people you are coaching at World Cups and Pan Am games while running a successful business with amateur/junior clients and traveling around the world giving clinics.

No, he's not cuddly and does not tolerate fools. If you want truth and his perspective, GM will give it. He's been around a long time, seen it and done it all. GM doesn't need anyone's approval - nor does he seek it.

For those who need more examples of how kind GM can be - He gave this poor, non-horse owning timid rider from Queens her dream private lesson. He let me hug him and hold his hand when I thanked him afterwards. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif Some ogre, huh?

By the way, he is God to us Believers. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SBT
Nov. 18, 2003, 09:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nyc_rider:

By the way, he is God to us Believers. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AMEN! Preach it, sista! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

dogchushu
Nov. 18, 2003, 11:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beast Of Burden:
Are we discussing how delightful he is or that he is "GOD". Yes, he is personable, he is delightful, but God?

I think it's a lot of hype.

-----
I'll never be your beast of burdon, All I wanted was for you to make love to me!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personable? Delightful? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I haven't heard those two adjectives to describe him before! Hey, I'm a big fan of the man--but he can be a bit of a grump!

I'll agree that he's not god--but he has made incredible contributions to the sport.

2 years ago, I audited a clinic of his along with a friend of mine. I fully expected to hate him. I had heard his reputation for being a bit abrasive, and I was prepared to get righteously offended at the things he said.

However, I left the clinic totally impressed. He didn't exactly pull any punches, but he wasn't the ogre I expected--just very direct. He was also quick to give a compliment when deserved or to let someone know they were improving. He just wanted the riders to pay attention and try their best.

I was also impressed that even though he'd had a bad fall the week before (I think Janet on this BB had actually witnessed that fall), he got up on a horse in every class to demonstrate what he was discussing. And he didn't pick the easiest horses either!



"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

JE
Nov. 19, 2003, 01:48 AM
Why on earth would the man's social skills (or lack of) have ANY bearing on his value as a trainer, clinician, rider, author, guru, and general font-of-all-knowledge?!?!?!

I have on a few memorable occasions stood near enough to him in the warmup ring at the DC Int Horseshow to overhear him, as well as having clinic'ed with several of his students. He is exacting, precise, thorough, knowledgeable and completely dedicated to the sport. AND he's contributed extensively to the body of knowledge, unlike popular gimmicky trainers who come and go.

Madeline
Nov. 19, 2003, 07:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Unspecified:
GM isnt God, but if you wanted to ride on the USET in the 70's and 80's, you had to let him think he was. His reputation is based on the success of his clients, and back then he could attract the best clients because of how much say he had in who would make the team. Riders from other countries had nothing to gain from his pull with the USET, and most of them gave it a year or two with him and moved on.

Now that the selection is more objective, he's just another BNE. Sure he knows a lot, but you wont learn anything in his clinic that you can't get for less $ from his book. You'll get more for your clinic $ by getting a few schools from a local trainer who knows his/her stuff.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like a little sour grapes. I wonder if "unspecified", "almosta" and/or "Beast of Burden" have been on the wrong side of one of GM's pet tirades...Like weight or tackiness or lack of attention...

madeline

almosta
Nov. 19, 2003, 08:02 AM
Madeline - No, I have never been on the wrong side of one of GM's pet tirades nor is it sour grapes! In fact my horse won at the the shows that I attended where he was the judge. I'm not saying that he isn't/wasn't a wonderful rider/trainer - what I am saying is that he could have tried to be a nicer/ more pleasant person - being great in whatever your field of endveavor is doesn't excuse rude/crude behavior for anyone.

Beast Of Burden
Nov. 19, 2003, 08:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madeline:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Unspecified:
GM isnt God, but if you wanted to ride on the USET in the 70's and 80's, you had to let him think he was. His reputation is based on the success of his clients, and back then he could attract the best clients because of how much say he had in who would make the team. Riders from other countries had nothing to gain from his pull with the USET, and most of them gave it a year or two with him and moved on.

Now that the selection is more objective, he's just another BNE. Sure he knows a lot, but you wont learn anything in his clinic that you can't get for less $ from his book. You'll get more for your clinic $ by getting a few schools from a local trainer who knows his/her stuff.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like a little sour grapes. I wonder if "unspecified", "almosta" and/or "Beast of Burden" have been on the wrong side of one of GM's pet tirades...Like weight or tackiness or lack of attention...

madeline<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok darling...

... More like this. He made a 15 year old kid get off in one of his clinics and roll in the mud. His reason? The horse was to dirty.

The 15 year old quit riding.

That is just such [crap] if you ask me. Grumpy old man who needs a life.

-----
I'll never be your beast of burdon, All I wanted was for you to make love to me!

Edited language... Erin

[This message was edited by Erin on Nov. 19, 2003 at 10:08 PM.]

bigbay
Nov. 19, 2003, 09:30 AM
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.

15 is old enough to say "You must be joking- what a ridiculous request. Let's get back to riding."

15 is also old enough to know better than to show up to a GM clinic with a dirty horse. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

just_me
Nov. 19, 2003, 10:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beast Of Burden:
Are we discussing how delightful he is or that he is "GOD". Yes, he is personable, he is delightful, but God?

I think it's a lot of hype.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm. And I think you're a troll. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

EStieg12
Nov. 19, 2003, 10:10 AM
He doesn't like blondes.

*****************************
Member of the "Baby Greenie Support Group" and major advocate of the Green Arm Band http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nikki^
Nov. 19, 2003, 10:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EStieg12:
He doesn't like blondes.

*****************************
Member of the "Baby Greenie Support Group" and major advocate of the Green Arm Band http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it because they have more fun? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

http://www.dmtc.com/dmtc98/Pedigree/
Look up your TB's bloodlines

almosta
Nov. 19, 2003, 11:39 AM
Devildog87, I think that you could make your comments less personal - I'm am not a moronic imbicile and I don't appreciate being called one!!!!!

Catwoman
Nov. 19, 2003, 11:45 AM
Hopeful Hunter--your'e horse sounds very courageous. It also sounds as if GM knew exactly what kind of clinic your guy needed. I hope my horse learns as much as your horse did.

SillyHorse
Nov. 19, 2003, 11:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bigbay:
15 is old enough to say "You must be joking- what a ridiculous request. Let's get back to riding."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> YOU must be joking. Few 15 year olds that I know would have the nerve (not to mention the bad manners) to say something like that.

SillyHorse
~ I'm probably on John Ashcroft's enemies list. At any rate, he's on mine. ~

Nickelodian
Nov. 19, 2003, 12:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beast Of Burden:


Ok darling...

... More like this. He made a 15 year old kid get off in one of his clinics and roll in the mud. His reason? The horse was to dirty.

The 15 year old quit riding.

That is just such shit if you ask me. Grumpy old man who needs a life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh good lord...although I seriously doubt he made anyone get off and roll around in the dirt I also see the side of him being ticked off that someone showed up with a DIRTY horse. I wouldn't even do that for a plain old regular trainer. Maybe this girl SHOULDN'T have been riding if she thought it was ok to leave her horse dirty.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.scatteredoaksfarm.com (http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com)

Black Market Radio
Nov. 19, 2003, 12:27 PM
almosta, you're not exactly who I was talking about, the restaurant thing I put in there was just anecdotal. I used to work at a restaurant and it chaps my hide when people treat waitstaff like crap when things are beyond their control. It also ticks me off when wait-persons have snotty attitudes.

The idiots I am reffering to are the ones who are coming out of the woodworks (and I have a feeling that there are more "names" than actual "bodies" here ) and basically screwing up a great deal of threads here.

Devilpups (http://community.webshots.com/user/angelgregory87)
But I can handle the perile!
No you can't, it's too perilous!

sienna&shot's
Nov. 19, 2003, 12:30 PM
Hi there gang.. Nothing to say about GM, as I've never been to one of his clinics.. but don't feed the troll in Beast of Burden.. I know alot of you have been following Num1Train and Silver's story... This is a quote from Beast of Burden:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Please stop with the theatrics and get a grip.
How about jingling for all the people dying of aids, or will that take away from your PITY PARTY???
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Instead of feeding the poor pathetic Beast, lets just pretend he doesn't exsist!!!

By the way, any socal folks going to the GM clinic in Fallbrook(in december?)?

Kim :-)

See my pics!! http://community.webshots.com/user/siennamama

Kimberlee
Nov. 19, 2003, 12:32 PM
GM will always be a god to me.

I have read his books over and over again, and have always loved his PH column. I agree that the 15 year-old probably had other reasons to quite riding, like most other kids who quite during their teenage years. Though she/he should have realized before going into the clinic how rude, abrupt, and sometimes mean-spirited the comments from GM can be. The trainier and parents should have made sure she was up to it.
Bill Steinkrus is awesome as well, and his books are way cool to. But GM has gone out of his way to make teaching others what his career will be remembered for. How many can say that? He isn't just out there winning all the competitions, but out there producing awesome horsepeople.

If wishes were horses... I would be sooooooo happy!!

EStieg12
Nov. 19, 2003, 12:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nikkibaby27:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EStieg12:
He doesn't like blondes.

*****************************
Member of the "Baby Greenie Support Group" and major advocate of the Green Arm Band http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it because they have more fun? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

http://www.dmtc.com/dmtc98/Pedigree/
Look up your TB's bloodlines

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
He he he.. maybe! I still respect his opinion though.

*****************************
Member of the "Baby Greenie Support Group" and major advocate of the Green Arm Band http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

bigbay
Nov. 19, 2003, 12:39 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bigbay:
15 is old enough to say "You must be joking- what a ridiculous request. Let's get back to riding."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"YOU must be joking. Few 15 year olds that I know would have the nerve (not to mention the bad manners) to say something like that.

SillyHorse"


Okay, I was being a bit facetious. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif But having ridden in a GM clinic as a 16 year old (and my first time ever meeting the man), I certainly would have found a different way to respond than to actually comply with his request had he asked me to roll in the mud.

Knowing George, he was trying to demonstrate two of his favorite principles: (1) when you disrespect your horse by not grooming it properly you are disrespecting yourself, so you might as well be dirty too; and (2) how do you deal with pressure?

Does George like to put people on the spot? Yes. But in my experience he doesn't ask more of people (or horses) than he thinks they're capable of. Was asking a rider to get off and roll in the mud an inappropriate request? Probably. Did George expect the rider to comply? Probably not. More likely he expected a 15 year old to reply, "I see what you're saying about my turnout. I apologize for disrespecting you and my horse by showing up dirty, and I'd like to show you how I can do better tomorrow."

My clinic experience very well could have been a disaster. I am female, blond, and from California (three of GM's favorites http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif). I was wait listed for the clinic and received a call at 9pm the night before asking if I could be ready to ride at 8 am the next morning (at a barn over an hour away!). Being the less-than-perfect horseman that I am, my tack was not clean, my horse was not clipped, and my trailer had a nail in one tire that was waiting to be fixed. Talk about getting caught with my guard down! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif I spent what few hours were left in the evening getting the trailer tire fixed so I could at least get there, and as a result I showed up on time but with a dusty unclipped horse and relatively dirty tack. I consoled myself with the thought that you could only see my tack if you got up close.

Well, first thing you know, GM asks us all to bridge our reins, and walks down the line inspecting our bridge. My bridge was fine (being the ex-eventer that I am! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) but he sort of pauses and fingers my reins and then my breastplate, which of course were covered in dried sweat/dirt underneath. He then pats my horse on the neck and all the mud that I had hurredly curried off which had turned to dust under a fuzzy winter coat comes up in a puff. And he just looks at me and must have seen it in my eyes- "I'm sorry, don't hate me!"- because he didn't say a word, just nodded content that I knew his meaning and hadn't tried to make excuses.

The rest of the clinic was great! He put me on the spot a few times, but I had done my homework, read his books, and always had a reason for what I was doing and why.

(Example: GM-"Why are you carrying your crop on the left coming down to these jumps?" Very accusatory, like I was doing something wrong. ME-"Well, my horse always runs out to the left, if he's going to run out" (these were jumps off of a tight right turn). GM-"Excellent! As long as you have a reason. I don't care what the reason is, just show me that you're thinking! Good girl.").

My experience was, he only put pressure on the ones he thought could do better. The ones he didn't like or thought were hopeless, he finally gave up and ignored them rather than rag them into the ground for something they were never going to get anyway.

The best caveat? There were three little kids about age 11 in my group, all of whom have gone on to be very successful riders (one just won the Maclay http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). One little girl was on a new horse and was promptly bucked off twice in the first ten minutes. Realizing the girl was plucky and kept getting back on, but was also probably on the verge of tears, GM was extremely kind to her and made her his "favorite" asking her to lead the exercises for the rest of the day and show us all how it was done. None of the rest of us minded. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif She had a great clinic, and so did the other two kids. He hopped on one of their horses and imitated them (one was jumping ahead, the other behind) and they were laughing their heads off.

I can see how that might have been a very damaging experience for that particular 15 year old, but as devildog mentioned, the rider probably had other self-esteem issues that it is unfair to ask Mr. Morris to have known about.

And it's no secret, if you're the kind of rider who has self-esteem issues, don't go to a GM clinic.

The Muffin Man
Nov. 19, 2003, 12:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickelodian:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beast Of Burden:


Ok darling...

... More like this. He made a 15 year old kid get off in one of his clinics and roll in the mud. His reason? The horse was to dirty.

The 15 year old quit riding.

That is just such shit if you ask me. Grumpy old man who needs a life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh good lord...although I seriously doubt he made anyone get off and roll around in the dirt I also see the side of him being ticked off that someone showed up with a DIRTY horse. I wouldn't even do that for a plain old regular trainer. Maybe this girl SHOULDN'T have been riding if she thought it was ok to leave her horse dirty.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com&lt;HR&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; (http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>)

Oh please, that does not give anybody the right to degrade someone, get a grip!
I rode in a clinic of his and he actually asked a girl to open her mouth, so he could throw dirt in it!
The man may be talented, but there is no excuse for his behavior!
p.s. There's only one god and it's not him!

D-funk
Nov. 19, 2003, 01:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Instead of feeding the poor pathetic Beast, lets just pretend he doesn't exsist!!!

By the way, any socal folks going to the GM clinic in Fallbrook(in december?)?

Kim :-)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think I might be going. I wanted to go to the one at the Oaks but it's during the week and I can't take off work for that.

As for GM, he might not be the most personable person but I thought people paid for his knowledge and experience, not his personality.

Easy come, easy go.

EStieg12
Nov. 19, 2003, 01:12 PM
My trainer rode a very green, HOT jumper in a GM clinic back in the day and he was like "There are very few HOT horses, only the riders who make them hot." and told my trainer to get off so he could get on her horse. He gets on and says "And this is a HOT horse." She was proud. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

*****************************
Member of the "Baby Greenie Support Group" and major advocate of the Green Arm Band http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

sienna&shot's
Nov. 19, 2003, 01:20 PM
Hey D-Funk.. Maybe I'll see ya there.. I'll keep ya posted.. If I go, I won't be riding though....

Kim :-)

See my pics!! http://community.webshots.com/user/siennamama

bigbay
Nov. 19, 2003, 01:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Muffin Man:
I rode in a clinic of his and he actually asked a girl to open her mouth, so he could throw dirt in it!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was she cussing? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif J/K.

SargPepper
Nov. 19, 2003, 02:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by findeight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Linny:
As the joke goes:
A horseperson dies and goes to Heaven, where he signs up for riding lessons. Shortly after, she notices a guy in breeches, fitted polo and spurs is always there, barking orders and expecting prompt reaction. After a time she gets up the nerve to ask who he is. The response? Oh, that's God, he thinks he's George Morris!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Flip side of this is that it's not God and it's not heaven. The new arrival spends eternity taking lessons from satan himself http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Without irons.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Too funny!

---Jen

"If the good Lord had intended us to walk, he wouldn't have invented rollerskates." --Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory

ALF
Nov. 19, 2003, 03:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sounds like a little sour grapes. I wonder if "unspecified", "almosta" and/or "Beast of Burden" have been on the wrong side of one of GM's pet tirades...Like weight or tackiness or lack of attention...

madeline <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I cant speak for the others, but in my case the answer is no. Does anyone want to refute the main point of my post?

In case you forgot, my main point was that GM owes his reputation to the stellar clients he was able to attract during the years when he was calling the shots on the USET. It's not rocket science.

Black Market Radio
Nov. 19, 2003, 04:04 PM
Ok, and WHY was he able to call the shots on the USET, He must have had SOME sort of good reputation BEFOREHAND in order to be able to call shots. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

Devilpups (http://community.webshots.com/user/angelgregory87)
But I can handle the perile!
No you can't, it's too perilous!

ALF
Nov. 19, 2003, 04:21 PM
Maybe it was because they didnt want any fat people on the team.

jr
Nov. 19, 2003, 04:37 PM
At the risk of being labeled among the anti-GM crowd....

I have great respect for his horsemanship and talent. He has done a tremendous amount for the sport.

Several folks alluded to his reputation for not tolerating fools, and not being warm and cuddly. Does that take away from his talent? No. But it does mean that when I plunk down hard earned $s to train, I'll choose clinicians that not only have knowledge, but also treat me with respect. I've been around this business for over 30 years. While never the one in harms way, I have seen BNTs (including GM) treat people disrespectfully. I don't care how good you are, you need to treat the people around you with respect.

The Muffin Man
Nov. 19, 2003, 04:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bigbay:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Muffin Man:
I rode in a clinic of his and he actually asked a girl to open her mouth, so he could throw dirt in it!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was she cussing? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif J/K.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


No, all she had was a nervous giggle that pissed him off!

SBT
Nov. 19, 2003, 05:45 PM
I think those of you who A. NEVER MET GM, or B. maybe saw him ONCE, need to stop trashing him. You have NO basis whatsoever for your judgements of him, other than urban legends and whatever else you've managed to hear from beneath the rocks you live under. Your ugly, immature attitudes offend me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

If you respect GM, he will respect you right back, no matter who you are. This has held true for my every encounter with him, whether on the phone or in person. If there is one thing GM HATES, it's bad manners and lack of class. So it's a good thing those of you talking out your @$$es about him DON'T like him; I doubt very much he'd like you, either. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

Ineptly
Nov. 19, 2003, 06:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sbt78lw:
I think those of you who A. NEVER MET GM, or B. maybe saw him ONCE, need to stop trashing him. You have NO basis whatsoever for your judgements of him, other than urban legends and whatever else you've managed to hear from beneath the rocks you live under. Your ugly, immature attitudes offend me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

If you respect GM, he will respect you right back, no matter who you are. This has held true for my every encounter with him, whether on the phone or in person. If there is one thing GM HATES, it's bad manners and lack of class. So it's a good thing those of you talking out your @$$es about him DON'T like him; I doubt very much he'd like you, either. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

_Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What about the ones who've only seen him once and like him? Should they shut up too? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

SBT
Nov. 19, 2003, 06:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Indepthly:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sbt78lw:
I think those of you who A. NEVER MET GM, or B. maybe saw him ONCE, need to stop trashing him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What about the ones who've only seen him once and _like_ him? Should they shut up too? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

READ for comprehension.

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

Ineptly
Nov. 19, 2003, 06:48 PM
I think I just did.

Zaboobafoo
Nov. 19, 2003, 10:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Unspecified:
Maybe it was because they didnt want any fat people on the team.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, this actually made me laugh out loud and is the funniest thing that I've herard all day. LOL LOL LOL http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

I got a webshots album! Yay! Go see : http://community.webshots.com/user/piggiejump

WhatzUp
Nov. 19, 2003, 10:19 PM
Hello,

I just received GM's "American Jumping Style" as a gift and am now very motivated to read it after following this thread !

Yours in sport,

Lynn

Founder of the Pinto Warmblood Clique

nyc_rider
Nov. 19, 2003, 10:48 PM
THANK YOU sbt78lw!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Amazing how a man who has done nothing remarkable in the last 20 years except demean 15 year old girls and rant at waitresses can cause such a stir. Can you believe GM was able to develop a reputation as a top trainer just because his stellar clients' were successful? What is that about? I mean GM's clients were the ones who were winning, what did GM have to do with it anyway except train them? And those foreign riders, only staying a year or two with GM - I'm sure that was because GM was bad, not that these riders had to/wanted to return to their own countries or ran out of money or that they were with GM for a specific period. No those reasons couldn't be.

Unbelievable. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

lauriep
Nov. 20, 2003, 06:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Muffin Man:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickelodian:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beast Of Burden:


Ok darling...

... More like this. He made a 15 year old kid get off in one of his clinics and roll in the mud. His reason? The horse was to dirty.

The 15 year old quit riding.

That is just such shit if you ask me. Grumpy old man who needs a life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh good lord...although I seriously doubt he made anyone get off and roll around in the dirt I also see the side of him being ticked off that someone showed up with a DIRTY horse. I wouldn't even do that for a plain old regular trainer. Maybe this girl SHOULDN'T have been riding if she thought it was ok to leave her horse dirty.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh please, that does not give anybody the right to degrade someone, get a grip!
I rode in a clinic of his and he actually asked a girl to open her mouth, so he could throw dirt in it!
The man may be talented, but there is no excuse for his behavior!
p.s. There's only one god and it's not him!&lt;HR&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;

Unless you people actually WITNESSED the above, I will tell you that this is no more than urban legend. George is direct, insists on obedience from riders and horses, and cleanliness and proper turnout are paramount, but he is NOT a monster and I do not see him doing anything like this. Telling them to leave his clinic and getting their money back, yes. But physically doing anything to a student just isn't him. I've known him for almost 30 years, and it just isn't him.

Don't believe everything you hear...

Oh, and his "stellar reputation?" That was in place LONG before ever coached an elite jumpr rider. For God's sake, READ the man's history! It is in the introduction to his book! He rode with every top teacher he could while he was developing, took all the best from all of these great teachers, and developed his own system, which has proven to WORK for 40+ years! He has his detractors, even among his peers, but NO ONE feels that he isn't legit, a tremendous teacher and dedicated to making better riders.

Go back to your rocks, trolls, you have NO idea what you are talking about! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Laurie

[This message was edited by lauriep on Nov. 20, 2003 at 10:12 AM.]

Lisamarie8
Nov. 20, 2003, 07:08 AM
you guys have the BEST fights over here! i LOVE it!

--- "We're putting you on what we call sudden death academic probation."

ise@ssl
Nov. 20, 2003, 07:34 AM
I found the following quote by one of those posting who feel GM is a "god" to be rather strange -

"If there is one thing GM HATES, it's bad manners and lack of class.".

Perhaps it's how you've been raised - but I firmly believe criticizing a rider's physique (anyone over the very thin category) in an extremely derogatory manner in front of a large group of people - IS BAD MANNERS. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

JMHO - but I always find it rather tenuous to put anyone in the "God" category - sometimes there's news or information lurking just around the corner that shatters that concept. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

SydneyS
Nov. 20, 2003, 07:36 AM
I think the proof of this man's work can be seen in the large numbers of riders that still confer with him, i.e. Leslie Howard, Anne Kursinski. If he's so awful, why would anyone want to be around him for 30+ years?

Hopeful Hunter
Nov. 20, 2003, 07:55 AM
but the real question is......

When GM stops teaching, who on Earth will we find to incite such interest????

Linny
Nov. 20, 2003, 08:02 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by EStieg12:
He doesn't like blondes.

Serendipity and I found out last fall that he DOES like red heads! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Resident racing historian
Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl
Nov. 20, 2003, 09:18 AM
Reminds me of the politician who was up for re-election, so he was stopping in at his constituents farms.

When he got to Farmer Fred, they chatted a bit about old times, then politician asked, "so, can I count on your vote Tuesday?"

Fred said, "Candidate CHris was just here, and I'm thinking I'll vote for him"

Politician was shocked, and reminded Fred how after the big flood washed out Fred's bridge, Pol arranged flood relief funding, and when the bank wanted a note repayed, Pol intervened anad was able to prevent a foreclosure, and when Fred's wife had been sick the previous winter, Pol had sent some of his supporters over to help around the farm.

"Well, yeah" said Fred.

"But what have you done for me lately?"

ALF
Nov. 20, 2003, 01:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Oh, and his "stellar reputation?" That was in place LONG before ever coached an elite jumpr rider. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LaurieP - Let me understand something. Are you saying his reputation today is the same as it would have been had he never coached an elite jumper rider? I don't think it is. And I still havent heard anyone seriously refute my theory that his client list had something to do with the influence he had on USET selections.

PS I'm not a troll. Alter? maybe. troll? no.

Black Market Radio
Nov. 20, 2003, 01:53 PM
Hey Underworked and over-paid, maybe people would take you MORE SERIOUSLY if you didn't have the word TROLL in your email addy.

Hey, did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, stellar riders went to him BECAUSE HE WAS A GOOD TEACHER AND PRODUCED RESULTS??? Of course not. It doesn't fit in your agenda.

Devilpups (http://community.webshots.com/user/angelgregory87)
But I can handle the perile!
No you can't, it's too perilous!

lauriep
Nov. 20, 2003, 01:55 PM
"In case you forgot, my main point was that GM owes his reputation to the stellar clients he was able to attract during the years when he was calling the shots on the USET. It's not rocket science."

He owes his reputation to the clients he had LONG before he was a chef for the USET. Many of them happen to be the same, but they rode with GM before he got the nod for the USET position. They rode with him because of his rep., not because he was the chef.

He earned his reputation as the TOP equitation coach in the world, before he started training jumper riders. These eq riders then morphed into his first jumper students. So yeah, he would have an equally stellar rep. if he had stuck to the eq., because it is his SYSTEM that people go to his clinics and lessons to learn.

Laurie

ALF
Nov. 20, 2003, 02:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>He owes his reputation to the clients he had LONG before he was a chef for the USET. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree. That's all there is to it.

bigbay
Nov. 20, 2003, 02:05 PM
And building off lauriep's post, his reputation originally traces back to the feat he accomplished at age fourteen which has not been duplicated since in the junior equitation ranks. He then went on to prove his mettle as an international competitor, then as a trainer, then as chef d'equipe, then as an author and clinician.

The man is the about the farthest thing from a flash in the pan this sport has ever produced, and he certainly didn't compile his list of accomplishments riding on anyone's coattails, or on his client's bankrolls. The elite jumping riders to which one poster refers became elite jumping riders simply because he coached them, not vice versa.

bigbay
Nov. 20, 2003, 02:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by devildog87:
Now, if it was just because they wanted skinny riders on the team, they didn't have to consult GM about it. They could have done that all by their widdle selves.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

ALF
Nov. 20, 2003, 02:09 PM
Maybe you don't think being a big wheel in the USET helped attract international calibre students. I do. If you never thought about it before, think about now and draw your own conclusions.

Black Market Radio
Nov. 20, 2003, 02:17 PM
But you don't seem to answer MY question... JUST HOW DID HE GET TO BE A BIG WHEEL IF HE DIDN'T HAVE A GOOD REP ALREADY???? Did you ever think of THAT??? They aren't going to let Joe Schmo nobody just waltz into the Gladstone facility and take over like a dictator. He had to have doen SOMETHING in order to get to the position where people will LISTEN to him! And why don't you address the fact that there were stellar riders being produced BY him BEFORE he had any pull? 'Splain that.

Devilpups (http://community.webshots.com/user/angelgregory87)
But I can handle the perile!
No you can't, it's too perilous!

Linny
Nov. 20, 2003, 02:21 PM
Something tells me that GM had a superior record BEFORE being named chef d'equipe, if not why the devil would he have become chef???? I don't see the USET beating the bushes for unknown, unproven trainers to lead the team. Maybe they can find some leadline coach or long stirrup champ to be the next chef. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
Of course he had the reputation before becoming chef.

Resident racing historian
Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

JFJ
Nov. 20, 2003, 02:27 PM
I beleive he also proved himself by riding ON the team, before he was ever a coach to anybody. He was riding on the USET Show Jumping Team Internationally when he was what 18 or 19! And very successful as a rider for many years.

ALF
Nov. 20, 2003, 02:31 PM
OK here goes-

He was a proven eq trainer on the East Coast at a time when overtly professional riders were mostly excluded from international competition. It surely didnt hurt that he was near Gladstone. He probably also knew some of the right people from riding their horses, but I don't know that for sure.

He wasn't a Joe Schmo. He was an accomplished horseman in the right place at the right time, and he capitalized on the opportunity to enhance his teaching business. Why's everyone got such a problem with that?

edited because it somehow lost my 2nd paragraph

[This message was edited by Unspecified on Nov. 20, 2003 at 05:39 PM.]

[This message was edited by Unspecified on Nov. 20, 2003 at 05:43 PM.]

bigbay
Nov. 20, 2003, 02:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Unspecified:

He wasn't a Joe Schmo. He was an accomplished horseman in the right place at the right time, and he capitalized on the opportunity to enhance his teaching business. Why's everyone got such a problem with that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably becuase some of us see it as taking the opportunity to enhance the sport, not his teaching business. Although there's no law against capitalism if that was case. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

At any rate the end result was enhancement of the sport, regardless of his motivation and/or circumstances. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This message was edited by bigbay on Nov. 20, 2003 at 05:51 PM.]

Black Market Radio
Nov. 20, 2003, 02:43 PM
So what if he did? YEs, it probably helped that he was on the East Coast and all, but hello, I bet TALENT got him there too. I have not yet seen him, but I am boing to pretty soon. he may be harsh and he may be abraisive, but refuting his talent and accomplishments and saying he is where he is due solely to "circumstantial evidence" makes no sense.

Devilpups (http://community.webshots.com/user/angelgregory87)
But I can handle the perile!
No you can't, it's too perilous!

ALF
Nov. 20, 2003, 02:51 PM
I think it makes perfect sense. It's not an urban legend that he was a big wheel on the USET.

Madeline
Nov. 20, 2003, 04:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Unspecified:
OK here goes-

He was a proven eq trainer on the East Coast at a time when overtly professional riders were mostly excluded from international competition. It surely didnt hurt that he was near Gladstone. He probably also knew some of the right people from riding their horses, but I don't know that for sure.

He wasn't a Joe Schmo. He was an accomplished horseman in the right place at the right time, and he capitalized on the opportunity to enhance his teaching business. Why's everyone got such a problem with that?

edited because it somehow lost my 2nd paragraph

[This message was edited by Unspecified on Nov. 20, 2003 at 05:39 PM.]

[This message was edited by Unspecified on Nov. 20, 2003 at 05:43 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was after a 10 or so year stint as a rider on the USET. Starting in the late '50's..

madeline

nyc_rider
Nov. 20, 2003, 04:23 PM
devildog87 - YOU GO ON WITH YOUR BAD SELF!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Your troll-battling stamina is mighty!!

findeight
Nov. 20, 2003, 04:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beast Of Burden:
Are we discussing how delightful he is or that he is "GOD". Yes, he is personable, he is delightful, but God?

I think it's a lot of hype.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Well...I don't think you do have any idea from personal experience who we are talking about or why because of that comment...tho I did skip ahead and not read alot of posts.

I have found him always polite and actually quite willing to talk or answer questions...but "delightful"????
Not in this lifetime.

He's more that little voice that tells you what you know on gut level but don't want to hear. He is a great advocate for demanding a high level of performance from your horse but rewarding that horse with exceptional treatment.

He may have mellowed but "delightful" tells me a troll is about.... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.

The Muffin Man
Nov. 20, 2003, 05:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Muffin Man:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickelodian:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beast Of Burden:


Ok darling...

... More like this. He made a 15 year old kid get off in one of his clinics and roll in the mud. His reason? The horse was to dirty.

The 15 year old quit riding.

That is just such shit if you ask me. Grumpy old man who needs a life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh good lord...although I seriously doubt he made anyone get off and roll around in the dirt I also see the side of him being ticked off that someone showed up with a DIRTY horse. I wouldn't even do that for a plain old regular trainer. Maybe this girl SHOULDN'T have been riding if she thought it was ok to leave her horse dirty.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh please, that does not give anybody the right to degrade someone, get a grip!
I rode in a clinic of his and he actually asked a girl to open her mouth, so he could throw dirt in it!
The man may be talented, but there is no excuse for his behavior!
p.s. There's only one god and it's not him!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless you people actually WITNESSED the above, I will tell you that this is no more than urban legend. George is direct, insists on obedience from riders and horses, and cleanliness and proper turnout are paramount, but he is NOT a monster and I do not see him doing anything like this. Telling them to leave his clinic and getting their money back, yes. But physically doing anything to a student just isn't him. I've known him for almost 30 years, and it just isn't him.

Don't believe everything you hear...

Oh, and his "stellar reputation?" That was in place LONG before ever coached an elite jumpr rider. For God's sake, READ the man's history! It is in the introduction to his book! He rode with every top teacher he could while he was developing, took all the best from all of these great teachers, and developed his own system, which has proven to WORK for 40+ years! He has his detractors, even among his peers, but NO ONE feels that he isn't legit, a tremendous teacher and dedicated to making better riders.

Go back to your rocks, trolls, you have NO idea what you are talking about! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Laurie

[This message was edited by lauriep on Nov. 20, 2003 at 10:12 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


First of all I'm not a troll!
Secondly, yes I was in a clinic of his and witnessed this my own eyes. Don't tell me it's an Urban Legend or a rumor.
You may choose to look through rose colored glasses, but some of us don't. I think the man is extremely talented, but does not have a right to do some of the things I've witnessed!

Your reply to my post was rude and uncalled for! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Medievalist
Nov. 20, 2003, 05:11 PM
7 pages?!?! You all fight about the stupidest stuff. JMHO.

Time to jingle for my GREs! I'm serious. Jingle jingle jingle! GRE has been resceduled. "Technical difficulties" my donkey...
Centre Equestre de la Houssaye (http://www.eii.fr/club/houssaye)

edited because I misspelled stupidest. Yep.

[This message was edited by Medievalist on Nov. 20, 2003 at 09:37 PM.]

The Muffin Man
Nov. 20, 2003, 05:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Medievalist:
_7 pages?!?!_ You all fight about the stupidist stuff. JMHO.

_Time to jingle for my GREs! I'm serious. Jingle jingle jingle! GRE has been resceduled. "Technical difficulties" my donkey...
http://www.eii.fr/club/houssaye_&lt;HR&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; (http://www.eii.fr/club/houssaye_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>)


I like to use the word "debating"......... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

-Bailey-
Nov. 20, 2003, 05:43 PM
George Morris

Love you all-

"Just because something is a little banged up doesen't mean you throw it away" -Tom Smith

http://www.picturetrail.com .... go to end of links on left and enter elijah351 for pics!

Ineptly
Nov. 20, 2003, 06:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This was after a 10 or so year stint as a rider on the USET. Starting in the late '50's..

madeline <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Madeline - yes but that does not mean he was over the hill. Lots of riders can have productive careers well into their 40's.

PlusTax
Nov. 20, 2003, 06:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah:
George Morris

Love you all-

"Just because something is a little banged up doesen't mean you throw it away" -Tom Smith

http://www.picturetrail.com .... go to end of links on left and enter elijah351 for pics!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Haha, thanks! But I think they established that 7 pages ago http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

**Kelsey**
&
**Notoriety**
**Plus Tax**
**Clearly Canadian**
**Pavielle**
**Angel Face**

http://community.webshots.com/user/jrhntrpavi

Clive's Mom
Nov. 20, 2003, 06:35 PM
OMG - and folks wonder why I rarely post here anymore.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The original question was 'who is GM?' NOT 'hey, what is your base-less opinion of a man you've never met before and aren't nearly qualified to speak about?'

good grief.

CBoylen
Nov. 20, 2003, 06:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clive's Mom:
OMG - and folks wonder why I rarely post here anymore.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The original question was 'who is GM?' NOT 'hey, what is your base-less opinion of a man you've never met before and aren't nearly qualified to speak about?'

good grief.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You get four gold stars for that post http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Post more.

http://community.webshots.com/user/anallie

Madeline
Nov. 20, 2003, 06:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Indepthly:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This was after a 10 or so year stint as a rider on the USET. Starting in the late '50's..

madeline <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Madeline - yes but that does not mean he was over the hill. Lots of riders can have productive careers well into their 40's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't say he was over the hill. If he's 66 now, that means he was 23 at the Rome Olympics, and 45 in the Lake Placid photos. Gotta figure that Joe Fargis is mid 50's now, as are many of the guys in those 21 year old Lake Placid photos who are still riding.

My point was that after winning the Medal and Maclay as a young kid, he started out on the USET with Chapot, Steinkraus and Hugh Wiley in the 50's, made himself a reputation as an international level rider, and has built his career from there.

The concept that he became a bigwig as a trainer is ridiculous. He built his technical expertise from his riding experience, and morphed it into training.

I saw him at Equine Affaire a few years ago, and he was still really good. He got on a couple of horses and did a magical transformation.

I was just objecting to the concept that he became famous and respected only as a trainer. He's been at the top of the heap since way before most of the people on this BB were born.

madeline

Ineptly
Nov. 20, 2003, 06:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The original question was 'who is GM?' <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah, but some of the answers required clarification.

lauriep
Nov. 20, 2003, 07:28 PM
Actually, findeight, delightful is exactly how I would describe him, in a social setting, and even during a lesson or clinic if he knows and respects you.

Unspecified, the trouble with your argument is that your chronology is completely wrong. He HAD the excellent rider clients BEFORE he was chef. Oh, I'm sure he got more, but Conrad, Katie, Leslie, Melanie, etc. were his students BEFORE he was involved officially with the USET. If you knew the sport, you would know this, so have your opinions if you must, but also know that they are misinformed.

Sorry, Muffin Man, you'll have to PT me with your name and details before I'll fall for that story.

Laurie

ALF
Nov. 20, 2003, 07:35 PM
He was involved with the USET in the 1950's.

lauriep
Nov. 20, 2003, 07:44 PM
As a RIDER, not a coach. And the "junior" rider of the team, at that. BIG difference, and he wasn't teaching/taking on students at the time.

You can't have it both ways. His "influential" years with the team were when he was chef. Bert was the ONLY law/boss while George RODE with the team.

Laurie

ALF
Nov. 20, 2003, 07:47 PM
Right. So he was involved with the USET before he had any clients.

Janet
Nov. 20, 2003, 08:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Unspecified:
Right. So he was involved with the USET before he had any clients.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And your point is? Bill Steinkraus, Frank Chapot, Mary Mairs Chapot, Kathy Kusner were also involved in the USET at the same time (somewhat more sucessfully, and for longer, IIRC) but did not become as influenetial as GM. I don't think you can blame/credit his influence to the fact that he RODE for the team.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

Erin
Nov. 20, 2003, 08:49 PM
You guys realize that Unspecified is just trying to rile you, right?

SBT
Nov. 20, 2003, 09:13 PM
Well Erin, I guess that just shows what big GM fans we are; we'll even feed trolls in his defense! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

ALF
Nov. 21, 2003, 04:04 AM
My point is that his reputation is overblown. I said he was an accomplished horseman, and I said he knows a lot. That makes him a BNT, not the greatest BNT ever and certainly not the inventor of horsemanship.

If you go to one of his clinics, what you get for your money are some theatrics and a brush with a minor celebrity. If that's how someone chooses to spend their $, I'm not going to criticize them for it.

lauriep
Nov. 21, 2003, 05:52 AM
Interesting take, since virtually every person on this board who HAS attended one of his clinics, and has bothered to post about it, has had at least a positive learning experience, and at best, a total turnaround in their riding. But apparently, you have missed those comments.

Great point, Janet!

Laurie

Silk
Nov. 21, 2003, 09:26 AM
I wanna know who Unspecified is. That might be interesting.

I am remembering the Warmblood Bitting thread..

**&gt;&gt;It's not bragging if you can back it up!&lt;&lt;**

Sonesta
Nov. 21, 2003, 11:44 AM
You know, I think GM would be very amused with this thread. He makes no excuses and needs no defenders. He just IS and thank heavens for that.

Sonesta Farms (http://www.sonestafarms.com) - breeding Hanoverian, Knabstrupper and Arabian sport horses.&lt;BR&gt;
"Find something you love & call it work."

Kimberlee
Nov. 21, 2003, 11:52 AM
One thing back to Unspecified...

What other trainer is so recognized? You go anywhere and everyone knows or has heard of GM. The other thing the makes GM so great is that he never asks anyone to do anything that he wouldn't do. He expects you to be clean, neat, and tidy, because that is what he expects of himself. If he tells you to jump your horse down that line, you know that he would jump down that line ON your horse. He not only talks the talk, but he walks the walk. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Just some more time on my soapbox!

If wishes were horses... I would be sooooooo happy!!

The Muffin Man
Nov. 21, 2003, 01:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
Actually, findeight, delightful is exactly how I would describe him, in a social setting, and even during a lesson or clinic _if he knows and respects you._

Unspecified, the trouble with your argument is that your chronology is completely wrong. He HAD the excellent rider clients BEFORE he was chef. Oh, I'm sure he got more, but Conrad, Katie, Leslie, Melanie, etc. were his students BEFORE he was involved officially with the USET. If you knew the sport, you would know this, so have your opinions if you must, but also know that they are misinformed.

Sorry, Muffin Man, you'll have to PT me with your name and details before I'll fall for that story.

Laurie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Believe what you like!

ALF
Nov. 21, 2003, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What other trainer is so recognized? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, none. There are, though, a good number who are equally competent, and a few who might even be better. That's my point.

ALF
Nov. 21, 2003, 02:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Interesting take, since virtually every person on this board who HAS attended one of his clinics, and has bothered to post about it, has had at least a positive learning experience, and at best, a total turnaround in their riding. But apparently, you have missed those comments. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course I've read the positive comments.

I should add that contrary to his reputation for extreme seriousness, I think he's quite the jokester. It's hard to watch his antics at a clinic without getting the idea the whole thing is an elaborate performance art in-joke for those who choose to be in on it. I will never believe that the man isnt amused by the ridiculous things he can get people to do because of who he is.

boobada
Nov. 21, 2003, 06:00 PM
OK...I'm about 1/2 way through this thread and it is hysterical! IF George Morris made someone role in mud and someone else open their mouth to throw dirt in....hahaha...he is awesome!

That is funny! I'm not being a troll, just laughing out loud that anyone would be willing to let him do this to them, IF either event actually happened. I would have laughed myself right off my horse! Maybe they should trade their mounts in for a spine.

"I will never believe that the man isnt amused by the ridiculous things he can get people to do because of who he is."

Are you kidding? I would laugh my arse off if some dumbarse opened their mouth for me to throw dirt in! GM is a human. If they chose to be treated in that manner....they chose it, and it is perfectly acceptable to laugh at them for it. No one does those things to you without you allowing it.



If he was an ogre in a restaurant, that is sad. And, being a former server I am quite familiar with how servers handle those people, their food and beverage. If his behavior was that bad, he got his that day, no doubt. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I gotta read on...later.

Edited as I read on...Still laughing! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

My take...Let George be George and I will continue thinking he is groovy http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
That's it.

[This message was edited by boobada on Nov. 21, 2003 at 09:26 PM.]

ponygal5
Nov. 21, 2003, 06:13 PM
Yep.....George Morris. He is a tough trainer but really good! He has been there and done that! He knows what he is looking for!

~Liz

AAJumper
Nov. 21, 2003, 06:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kimberlee:
You go anywhere and everyone knows or has heard of GM. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Everyone except the original poster, apparently. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ineptly
Nov. 21, 2003, 06:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>virtually every person on this board who HAS attended one of his clinics, and has bothered to post about it, has had at least a positive learning experience <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually the clinic-review posts I've seen here tend not to say much about riding. Mostly they revolve around three themes:

1) How intimidated the attendee was about being near GM

2) How elated they were when he acknowledged them in some non-offensive way

3) The odd fascination everyone in attendance had for whatever annoyed GM, and how he came up with a memorable way of expressing his displeasure.

Medievalist
Nov. 21, 2003, 06:40 PM
Oh my God! It's G Gordon Liddy!!!!!!
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

GRE finished! Now must finish the applications.
Centre Equestre de la Houssaye (http://www.eii.fr/club/houssaye)

bigbay
Nov. 21, 2003, 06:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by G Gordon Liddy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>virtually every person on this board who HAS attended one of his clinics, and has bothered to post about it, has had at least a positive learning experience <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually the clinic-review posts I've seen here tend not to say much about riding. Mostly they revolve around three themes:

1) How intimidated the attendee was about being near GM

2) How elated they were when he acknowledged them in some non-offensive way

3) The odd fascination everyone in attendance had for whatever annoyed GM, and how he came up with a memorable way of expressing his displeasure.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, I don't know, Indepthly. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I think Hopeful Hunter's posts described a pretty pertinent learning experience, albiet her horse's.

Linny
Nov. 21, 2003, 06:58 PM
Hey G Gordon, after the clinic at Hunterdon last fall, Serendipity and Sara posted several pages of notes on the exercises, lessons and concepts GM taught.
I attended (audited) with Serendipity and we drove for 2 hours back to NY talking about the lessons and how they could apply to horses we ride every day.
Maybe GM has mellowed, I didn't find him that scary. Of course, my Dad was a military man and my first trainer a tough nut so I may have thick skin. Also, it's less scary from the auditors chairs though I admit I was a bit worried when He Himself saw me dive into the cookie tray at lunch. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

Resident racing historian
Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

SBT
Nov. 21, 2003, 07:29 PM
More baseless opinions, eh, Unspecified? I for one would really like to know if you've ever ridden under GM YOURSELF, or met him in person even. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

You know, I don't blame you for being all intimidated and defensive. It's far easier to find fault with the big names who are always in the spotlight as opposed to Joe Schmo trainer down the street, who can do whatever unseemly thing he wants and nobody will ever know or care.

Really now, if GM WERE Joe Schmo trainer down the street, would you find him important enough to publicly drag his name through the mud? If YOU think there are better trainers out there, why aren't you trashing THEM? You targeted GM for a reason, and that's because you know as well as everyone else that he is the biggest of the BNT's...and that the status he's EARNED has not come about through osmosis, but by true genius as a rider and teacher. Whether or not you like his personality is irrelevant. His results bear him out.

As far as your interpretation of GM clinic reports on this BB, you could not be more wrong. I suggest you do a search and re-read them all. In terms of "how intimidated the attendee was about being near GM," can you please tell me WHAT THE HELL is wrong with that? If you met someone YOU admire and respect (if there is such a person), YOU would be feeling a little intimidated, too.

Honestly, I am totally amazed at this gross lack of respect for one of the greatest (if not THE greatest) horsemen this country has ever known. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif I pity you GM-bashers for the things you will never learn because of your short-sightedness.

Don't ever forget that the great horsemen won't be with us forever, and there WILL NOT always be some bright protege waiting in the wings, ready to take over when they pass. People like GM are absolute TREASURES because of the knowledge and experience they posess. It is crude and offensive to undermine any of them, GM especially.

If I give you folks a dollar, will you go out and buy yourselves some good, old-fashioned RESPECT? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

ALF
Nov. 21, 2003, 08:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If YOU think there are better trainers out there, why aren't you trashing THEM? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

because they're better!

mymutombo
Nov. 21, 2003, 08:15 PM
GM...simply the best. He has a total understanding of horses and riders. I have audited his clinics for more than 10 years. I have seen many BNTs auditing and riding in the clinics. Anyone who does't like him probably has a hard time hearing the truth.

SBT
Nov. 21, 2003, 08:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Unspecified:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If YOU think there are better trainers out there, why aren't you trashing THEM? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

because they're better!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, that's just so out of context, it's not even funny. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Interesting that you chose not to comment on anything else in my post... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

I'd really like to know WHO you think is better than GM. Really.

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

ALF
Nov. 21, 2003, 08:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'd really like to know WHO you think is better than GM. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All the ones I'm not trashing, obviously.

Ineptly
Nov. 21, 2003, 08:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>that's just so out of context, it's not even funny <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you sure?

SBT
Nov. 21, 2003, 08:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Unspecified:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'd really like to know WHO you think is better than GM. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All the ones I'm not trashing, obviously.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Name them.

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

Ineptly
Nov. 21, 2003, 09:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Name them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well the initials ESG come to mind. Should I go on?

SBT
Nov. 21, 2003, 09:18 PM
Initials don't count. Names, dammit! I want names! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

Zaboobafoo
Nov. 21, 2003, 09:42 PM
sbt,

Apparently, EVERY SINGLE other trainer is better than GM, because GM is the only one getting trashed on this thread. So WOW, imagine the rider I must be if all my life I've been getting taught by those BETTER than GM....if only I had known, I wouldn't have spent so much time reading his books!!!

I got a webshots album! Yay! Go see : http://community.webshots.com/user/piggiejump

Ineptly
Nov. 21, 2003, 09:45 PM
My trainer is divorced.

DoubleTwistedWire
Nov. 21, 2003, 11:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by G Gordon Liddy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Name them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well the initials ESG come to mind. Should I go on?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that goes without saying http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sonesta
Nov. 22, 2003, 07:11 AM
If this is our own ESG, she's gonna have a fit to see herself listed as better than GM! What a hoot!

Sonesta Farms (http://www.sonestafarms.com) - breeding Hanoverian, Knabstrupper and Arabian sport horses.&lt;BR&gt;
"Find something you love & call it work."

Kimberlee
Nov. 22, 2003, 10:15 AM
This really is to funny! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I wonder if GM ever reads this board. Can you imagine how hard people are laughing at our posts. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

If wishes were horses... I would be sooooooo happy!!

SydneyS
Nov. 22, 2003, 12:07 PM
I would also like to know (with actual names) who could POSSIBLY be a better trainer than GM. Though I've never ridden with him personally, I have ridden with those that were products of his system.

There's a reason his system works... and why he is the BEST trainer in the country. How many other trainers can you name with so many SUCCESSFUL names to their credit? Not only do his students ride unbelievably well at the shows, they can also train the green/young horses AND teach the riders.

His system is the BEST because he turns out HORSEMEN, not just riders!!!!!!

ALF
Nov. 22, 2003, 12:59 PM
Thinking GM is the best trainer is one thing. Not knowing the name of anyone who could possibly be better is another. Talk about ignorance.

stopher
Nov. 22, 2003, 02:14 PM
GM is, as you know by now, George Morris. Don't know much of what anyone else has said since I stopped reading when the fighting started. I've heard that he is very knowledgable, tough but fair, and obviously rides quite well.
I've heard he made one of the hard-ass trainers in the area cry! I would pay to see that!
Not sure if i'd be brave enough to take a clinic from him, but it would definatly be worth the cash for someone who was.

Stopher

SweatySaddlepad
Nov. 22, 2003, 02:36 PM
I can name another trainer who I have alot of respect for and was tops in the game, Jimmy Williams. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It was a sad day when we lost him.

ise@ssl
Nov. 22, 2003, 02:49 PM
I don't see where GM is being "trashed" in this discussion. What appears is that people who DO feel this man is a "god" cannot believe that others feel he isn't. They also seem to be unable to accept the simple fact that regardless of the books, clients, riding over 60 - some people just don't like the man. They are entitled to that opinion for whatever reasons they have. Some people here feel he knows everything about everything and NO ONE knows anything at all about training. I have to assume that's based on their experiences and information.

Well - there are people out there who have DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES AND INFORMATION on which they base their opinions.

From what I've seen - GM couldn't hold a candle to Bertalan de Nemethy. He could be tough but not degrading to people.

Black Market Radio
Nov. 22, 2003, 04:35 PM
Arizona, I am lucky enough to have a trainer who learned from Jimmy Williams. She is an amazing rider and teaches an auto release. I love it when she tells stories about him and talks about the things she used to do with him. She has a lot of funny stories and such and it's so educational!

Devilpups (http://community.webshots.com/user/angelgregory87)
But I can handle the perile!
No you can't, it's too perilous!

HuntJumpSC
Nov. 22, 2003, 06:02 PM
Wow....9 pages of bickering. Unbelievable. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

To set the record straight~ yes, GM made someone roll in the dirt in a clinic in Camden one year. Why? It was freezing cold in the covered arena, he called us to ride in to the center, and the girl next to me dropped her reins, and pulled her hands up in the sleeves of her sweater (say WHAT?) She was more concerned with herself and being cold than she was her own safety. So he made her get off and "roll around, get that pretty sweater dirty"
Saw it with my own eyes, got it on video. Not an urban legend...I figured I was next. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

I have nothing but respect for the man, he is tough and expects nothing but your best and then some. He wants riders to have respect for themselves, their mounts and their discipline. I've ridden in several of his clinics, and when he "fussed" at me, it was because I did something to deserve it. I've had the opportunity to speak with him afterwards on several occasions, get my books signed, and pictures taken, and he has always been gracious and complimentary of my riding and my mounts. Heck I even fell off one year! He told me not to "sit up there like Statue of Liberty" LOL http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif
He's a great coach, a talented rider, and is one of the few left from the old school. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

II===II SUZ II===II
"Show with C.L.A.S.S.!" http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif *No Regrets, Sentimental Journey, & Miz Scarlett*
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gifSCer's Clique*http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif*Group W Bench Clique*http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif*Packrats Anonymous Clique*http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

trailblazer
Nov. 22, 2003, 06:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HuntJumpSC:
To set the record straight~ yes, GM made someone roll in the dirt in a clinic in Camden one year. Why? It was freezing cold in the covered arena, he called us to ride in to the center, and the girl next to me dropped her reins, and pulled her hands up in the sleeves of her sweater (say WHAT?) She was more concerned with herself and being cold than she was her own safety. So he made her get off and "roll around, get that pretty sweater dirty"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow. I've lost a lot of respect for the "man" after hearing that... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I have no doubt that he is a great horseman and a great trainer. Just look at the results.

But is he a great person? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

CBoylen
Nov. 22, 2003, 06:54 PM
Okay, now I'll play. I don't have anything to say about his riding or training accomplishments, because I honestly can't see how they're legitimately up for question. Come on guys, he's aHall of Fame (http://www.showjumpinghalloffame.net/) member, the only one actively teaching, with the exception of the Chapots.

I will take issue with this:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But is he a great person? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know you didn't mean any harm lexiboo, so I'm sorry to pick on you specifically, you just had the succinct quote I was going for.
George is a great person. You can't possibly judge him from a day's acquaintence. He's got a wonderful sense of humor, and has never failed to stop me and ask about my family and well-being when I see him after a lapse of time. He's been nothing but kind to me since I can remember, and I will always appreciate that. That's why I'm jumping in here.
Even if I didn't respect him as person, I'd respect him as a rider and trainer, and I expect others to do so as well.

http://community.webshots.com/user/anallie

Parminch
Nov. 23, 2003, 05:38 AM
I gotta jump in here with C.Boylen......yes he is a great person in addition to the great talent he has in teaching and training. Has he done things that "taken out of context" seemed harsh? ....I would dare say yes.... but think about the numbers we are talking about here. He has given umpteen million lessons...and many with grand results! He has produced our nation's greatest riders and trainers.
Like C.Boylen says he has never hesitated to come up to me and ask how I am doing. I see him so rarelly these days and he always makes it a point to say something funny or caring.
I also have a wonderful GM story. Years ago when I was teaching, I had a young man who rode with us who did not have the money to ride, but he had soooo much talent. We got him catch rides and bought him all of his equipment etc. I took him to do the USET finals that year and GM happened to be judging and was very impressed with him. He came to me at Harrisburg and asked could he help him? I explained to him there was no money and he said he did not care...he wanted to help, but he did not want to step on my toes which I told him that I was in no way offended. I was thrilled! He proceeded to give him lessons and even got Rheiner Klimpke to give him a couple of lessons!!!!!! All because he saw raw talent and wanted to help. That young man ended up 4th in the USET, 6th in the medal (he was on top the entire day and made a small mistake in the test) and 6th in the ASPCA and is now a successful professional.
In my eyes George Morris is a GREAT person! as well as an incredible horseman.. and nothing will ever change my view.

~Pine Meadow Farm~

-Bailey-
Nov. 23, 2003, 07:17 AM
George Morris, Famous Horseman

Love you all-

"Just because something is a little banged up doesen't mean you throw it away" -Tom Smith

http://www.picturetrail.com .... go to end of links on left and enter elijah351 for pics!

ise@ssl
Nov. 23, 2003, 07:53 AM
So am I understanding some of the posters here that humiliating someone is an acceptable form of behavior if the person in charge is also someone imparting a great deal of knowledge in the discipline? Would those of you who feel the "sweater incident" is o.k., use this sort of method if you went on to become trainers to make a specific point?? I'm asking this in general - not just relative to the person referenced on this thread. i.e. Did the end justify the mean? Did any of you wonder where a concept of having someone rolling on the ground came from or did you just feel it was justified?

I'd also like to know if you feel the rider should have felt absolutely positive about the experience and not held any grudge against a trainer who used such extremes? Also - is this sort of action acceptable for BNT's - or should it be something that any trainer can utilize in their training program to make a point. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Lazy Palomino Hunter
Nov. 23, 2003, 08:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ise@ssl:
So am I understanding some of the posters here that humiliating someone is an acceptable form of behavior if the person in charge is also someone imparting a great deal of knowledge in the discipline? Would those of you who feel the "sweater incident" is o.k., use this sort of method if you went on to become trainers to make a specific point?? I'm asking this in general - not just relative to the person referenced on this thread. i.e. Did the end justify the mean? Did any of you wonder where a concept of having someone rolling on the ground came from or did you just feel it was justified?

I'd also like to know if you feel the rider should have felt absolutely positive about the experience and not held any grudge against a trainer who used such extremes? Also - is this sort of action acceptable for BNT's - or should it be something that any trainer can utilize in their training program to make a point. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've tried to stay out of this thread, but now I have a thought I'd like to contribute. The rider in question was doing something that could seriously jeopardize her safety (dropping her reins and putting her hands somewhere not instantly accessible. There comes a point in every rider's life when they must REALIZE that they must but SAFETY before comfort. She should have learned this looonnggg before shelling out big bucks to spend a day or two training with the biggest of BNT's. He responded to this with what I feel was an appropriate action. I can GUARANTEE you that she would never again drop her reins to pull her hands inside her sleeves.

If that incident alone caused her to quit riding, I think she had a bigger issue then being forced to roll in a little arena sand. She knew his teaching style going into the clinic, and if she is unable to handle that sort of teaching, she shouldn't have entered it to begin with.

That being said, my trainer is very GM-ey in her teaching (as far as style, she's no where near as good as him). Let me tell you... she thinks up some creative ways to break those bad habits... I won't go into details, but lets just say there have been some days I have left lessons feeling very stupid. But you know what? I have become a better rider for it, and there are some mistakes I will NEVER make again because of those lessons... sometimes a passive teaching style won't drive a really, really important lesson home. That's all I have to say.

Alison

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read."
-Marx (Groucho, not Karl)

lauriep
Nov. 23, 2003, 08:30 AM
I have absolutely no problem with anyone who either knows George, or has ridden with him, objecting to his methods or personality. He ISN'T for everyone.

But I DO object, strongly, to those trashing him on hearsay, to "be cool," or for any other reason if they can't do it from firsthand experience. If someone who you didn't know and had never met, were talking you down, wouldn't your first response be "That person doesn't even KNOW me!"? Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but those opinions should be founded on personal experience, not rumor and gossip.

Since Huntjump SC has verified the instance, and she is a regular poster here that many people know, I'll accept it. But I really don't have a problem with it as HJSC explained the circumstances. George intends to make his points STICK, and that is just his way. Maybe there was a better way, but pulling out one or two instances out of hundreds of thousands of riders he has helped isn't exactly fair.

Laurie

Ineptly
Nov. 23, 2003, 01:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by G Gordon Liddy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sbt78lw:
I think those of you who A. NEVER MET GM, or B. maybe saw him ONCE, need to stop trashing him. You have NO basis whatsoever for your judgements of him, other than urban legends and whatever else you've managed to hear from beneath the rocks you live under. Your ugly, immature attitudes offend me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

If you respect GM, he will respect you right back, no matter who you are. This has held true for my every encounter with him, whether on the phone or in person. If there is one thing GM HATES, it's bad manners and lack of class. So it's a good thing those of you talking out your @$$es about him DON'T like him; I doubt very much he'd like you, either. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

_Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What about the ones who've only seen him once and _like_ him? Should they shut up too? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

MistyBlue
Nov. 23, 2003, 02:04 PM
Quote by Lazy Palomino Hunter:
"Let me tell you... she thinks up some creative ways to break those bad habits... "

"But you know what? I have become a better rider for it, and there are some mistakes I will NEVER make again because of those lessons"

And from ise@ssl:
" Would those of you who feel the "sweater incident" is o.k., use this sort of method if you went on to become trainers to make a specific point??"

I've almost always trained with the type of trainer LPH talks about, and prefer it greatly to the type who make a supreme effort to remain overly positive and upbeat. The latter type is good for my ego, but the former improves my riding. And since I'm paying a trainer to improve my riding and feel my self esteem is up to myself...then I stick with the 'tough' trainers. I've clinicked with GM back in the day...and wish to do so again in the future before he retires.
I'm guessing (completely guessing, so put the flamethrowers away please http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) that the posters taking great offense and objection to 'tough' teaching are the younger set? NOTHING wrong with the younger set, but some of the older set seem more used to trainers who teach above all else (inc feelings) and don't have issues with hearing they're wrong, they're not as good as they thought and that they could stand some improvement in certain areas. My very first trainer, and all afterwards, were tough birds when it came to teaching. If I made an innocent but potentially dangerous mistajke, it was corrected immediately, seriously and with the harshness necessary to make it stick for life. In order to keep ME and my horse safe in the future. If I did something stupid as losing my temper, not pay attention, etc, believe you me, I was made to wish I didn't do it. And usually never made the same mistake twice. (I could usually come up with new fubars to make on my own anyways, LOL) My 10 year old daughter is now learning to ride with me as her preliminary teacher for now. Until she outgrows what I can teach her and moves on and up. She has the same problem I did at her age with pinching with her knees. No amount of explanations, 'try harders' or compliments were helping at all. So I went back to what trainer #1 in my young life did to break the habit. I put burs (well, we used Legos, couldn't find burs) on the knee patches of her britches. Problem solved in 15 minutes. Uncomfy, probably not 'politically correct' and I did hear some flak from other barn members..."Ooo, you're mean!" "Isn't that going to hurt?" "MY trainer would NEVER do that to me!" Well, yes, but you're trainer has been trying to break you of the habit for 3 months...at $60 an hour. You're losing money and learning time in this SPORT by taking the easy way out. Now if I could remember which heinous thing my first trainer used to keep me from staring at my horse's withers...LOL!

Equine Crash Test Dummy
Member of: Non-GPA Clique
80's Clique
Connecticut Clique
Helmet Nazi Clique

trailblazer
Nov. 23, 2003, 02:15 PM
But what is the point of making someone roll around in the dirt?

It's a good thing no one has ever told me to do that, because I would have given that person the finger and ridden off into the sunset... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

ALF
Nov. 23, 2003, 02:28 PM
Well I think rolling in the dirt is an excellant exercise, I just don't see why you wouldn't do it for free on your own time instead of at an expensive clinic.

trailblazer
Nov. 23, 2003, 02:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Unspecified:
Well I think rolling in the dirt is an excellant exercise, I just don't see why you wouldn't do it for free on your own time instead of at an expensive clinic.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Captain Obvious
Nov. 23, 2003, 02:45 PM
Our beauty reporter at Obvious News did a segment a few weeks ago about how dirt is not only an exceptional exfoliant but also provides your skin with essential nutrients.

Duffy
Nov. 23, 2003, 03:13 PM
Wonderful story, Parminch! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"B***h in training"

Bumpkin
Nov. 23, 2003, 03:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
Our beauty reporter at Obvious News did a segment a few weeks ago about how dirt is not only an exceptional exfoliant but also provides your skin with essential nutrients.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But, what if the dirt is BS? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Proud Member Of The I Love Dublin, Starman Babies, Mini Horse, Sunnieflax and Horse Boxes Cliques"
"Remember: You're A Customer In A Service Industry."

SBT
Nov. 23, 2003, 04:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by G Gordon Liddy:

What about the ones who've only seen him once and _like_ him? Should they shut up too? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but you should. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

jr
Nov. 23, 2003, 04:37 PM
Misty Blue,

I'm not of the younger set. I've had many trainers that focus on riding first and feelings second. It is possible to do that and NOT be disrespectful. I've audited GM clinics that were incredibly constructive. I've also audited clinics (with him and others) that were not. Disrespect teaches nothing but disprespect.

Ineptly
Nov. 23, 2003, 04:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Your ugly, immature attitudes offend me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

trailblazer
Nov. 23, 2003, 05:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sbt78lw:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by G Gordon Liddy:

What about the ones who've only seen him once and _like_ him? Should they shut up too? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but you should. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

trailblazer
Nov. 23, 2003, 05:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jr:
Disrespect teaches nothing but disprespect.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you. I agree.

I don't know why GM of all people would resort to such immature and abusive tactics. He is talented enough not to. I hope everyone who goes to his clinics is fortunate enough to catch him on a constructive day. He has a lot to offer, and it would be a shame for his attitude to get in the way... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

havaklu
Nov. 23, 2003, 10:22 PM
OK Unspecified - I'll bet my horse that if you walked up to GM himself and asked him who were the best trainers he would give you a list of them -

Names like Bert de Nemathy, Gordon Write, etc... are you with me. IOW he wouldn't name himself. He would probably agree that he is not the best - but he has always tried to learn from the best and do his best to be HIS best. And that is all he asks for those who seek to learn from him.

He would not be offendeed that you choose to take your money elsewhere - He would gladly give you names.

He would also tell you he had no natural TALENT for riding - he got where he was on his attitude, work ethic and the support of others who believed in him and demanded of him.

Would he take on a rider with "limited funds"? At this point in his career where he himself has started to say it's time for him to start scaling back - probably not - but I bet he has in his past - after all his motto has always been that he prefers Attitude over Aptitude.

Is he "delightful"? Depends on your definition - I think he has a wicked dry sense of humor - I find that to be Delightful.

I would also grant you that when he gives a clinic he DOES ""play to the audience (heck in some cases it is quite clear he is getting up on his soapbox about topics he feels passionate about) - and he does so in order to "ED-u-CATE" (those of you who have heard him speak are with me...) those in the audience as well as those in the clinic.

As to the "roll in the dirt". It probably did happen - I would have guessed he wanted the rider to experience the same discomfort her dirty horse must be feeling under the saddle. I don't agree that paying money to someone you hope to learn from means they owe you respect - Look at the great coaches in any sport and most of them are not known for being warm and fuzzy.

I've seen him clinic a number of times - and each one has been unique - which is why I think you get so many differing accounts. No one will ever accuse him of being dull.

I have a number of GM stories I could tell that I think exhibit a level of humility few would expect.

In the end - I don't much care if other respect him - IMO it's their loss.

A friend of mine who audited one of his recent clinics told me he came out and said he's pretty much fed up with the riders he encounters these days and it's the HORSES that keep him going.

Reading this thread - one can understand why he feels this way - I find that sad...

Bumpkin
Nov. 23, 2003, 11:41 PM
I have a question.

Are his clinics now more focused on Jumpers than Hunters?
I rode in a GM clinic, many years ago. I recall we were all riding Hunters, and don't recall it being much more than Hunter riding.

So if you have a hunter you are better off not riding in a GM clinic? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

"Proud Member Of The I Love Dublin, Starman Babies, Mini Horse, Sunnieflax and Horse Boxes Cliques"
"Remember: You're A Customer In A Service Industry."

JenEM
Nov. 24, 2003, 01:10 AM
Bumpkin, at the clinic I audited this fall (and greatly enjoyed), the focus in the higher section was more towards jumpers/big eq riders, with much more technical courses than a hunter would ever see. However, the lower sections (3') were doing exercises that any well-trained horse ought to be able to do, though slightly more complex than a typical hunter course (ie, rollbacks, skinny wingless jumps). I think you could comfortably take a horse with solid basics in there, whether hunter, jumper, or eq mount and benefit, so long as you're listening and trying http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Weatherford
Nov. 24, 2003, 03:32 AM
Maybe it is time we laid this to rest??

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Or maybe it is time for only those with good things to say to respond.

we have hashed GM so many millions and millions of times (do a search!) that it has become redundant, not constructive...

Thanks.

It's OUT! Linda Allen's 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ise@ssl
Nov. 24, 2003, 05:33 AM
Misty Blue - I'm 52 so truly not the "younger set".

I have no problem with trainers that are tough, set high standards and demand the best from students - I'm asking people about DEROGATORY comments OR ACTIONS. i.e. are these constructive in any way? Are they necessary?? This applies to all sports - not just riding. Does humiliating a person in front of a group have a positive affect on all those witnessing it??

I certainly don't advocate the PC approach to training with constant - you are wonderful comments even if the person is lousy.

CuriousGeorge
Nov. 24, 2003, 05:51 AM
Ilona, I well aware of your "reputation" as a breeder.

But do you even ride? Do you ride hunters or jumpers?

ise@ssl
Nov. 24, 2003, 07:27 AM
Yes I ride - though it's limited due to a back injury. Showed hunters years ago. What does it matter?

I'm just curious about how people feel about the question I've asked - I've seen lots of trainers in various disciplines over the years that are wonderful - tough and don't get personal or derogatory and also those that do. So many people in (AGAIN ALL DISCIPLINES) keep jumping from trainer to trainer - many for this reason and I'm just asking people if they feel this really helps the athletes or the sport.

AWIP
Nov. 24, 2003, 07:29 AM
I've never ridden with GM, and probably never will. I'm not what he considers an acceptable riding weight, not by a long shot. Though if I manage to fix that, I'd attend in a second, with my heart in my throat.

However, even after switching from hunters to eventing, I still re-read Hunt Seat Equitation at least once a year. Why? Because the man has an incredible insight on jumping and position and how to influence a horse. 20 years later I'm still picking up tips and being reminded of things I should not have forgotten. I come from the school of tough trainers, and don't believe anything is wrong with tough or even behaviour that occasionally borders objectionable... so long as it is related to something immediately within your control. Better harsh here and now than the rider getting injured later because the seriousness of the error was never impressed upon them. His philosophy has always been deeply rooted in respect for the horse, safety and effectiveness.

My old coach was a believer in his methods, his book required reading when I started with her. She shared many of the same qualities, good and bad. Every rider she turned out in those years were skilled, tough, independant riders with excellent form. She was a hard one, tears got you nowhere, talking back got you kicked out, if you ignored her she would escalate until you learned or quit and could the woman YELL!! There was no quitting, you did it until you got it ... if you quit, you didn't come back. If you hit the dirt, unless concussed or broken, you got back on and continued or didn't come back. I somethimes hated it then but wouldn't change a minute of it now. When the going gets tough, I've learned to get tougher .. in riding and in life and it has served me well.

However, tough means addressing what someone CAN fix immediately. Attitude, attire, hand/body/leg position, one's response to a situation can be changed quickly, one's weight/flexibility/strength/confidence/body build cannot. All coaches, no matter how tough, need to remember to focus on things that are under the student's immediate control to focus on things outside of the student's immediate control is demoralizing and in-effective. The vast majority of what I've heard says that GM does exactly that.

Janet
Nov. 24, 2003, 07:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm not what he considers an acceptable riding weight, not by a long shot. Though if I manage to fix that, I'd attend in a second, with my heart in my throat. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I wouldn't let that stop you. For whatever reason (real tolerance or biting his tongue) he has improved a lot on that front.

I am also way over what he would consider "an acceptable riding weight" and he never mentioned it.

But I agree that if one has a "confidence problem", he isn't the one ot go to.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

AWIP
Nov. 24, 2003, 07:45 AM
Janet PT

MHM
Nov. 24, 2003, 07:58 AM
For the record, at the GM clinic I audited a few weeks ago, I never heard him mention anyone's weight. In fact, in one group, he was the most complimentary towards the riding skills of the least "willowy" person there.

I try to form opinions based on first-hand knowledge, and in my own experience, GM has always been very pleasant and friendly to me every time I've crossed paths with him. He certainly had nothing to gain by being nice to me! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

trailblazer
Nov. 24, 2003, 08:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
Or maybe it is time for only those with good things to say to respond.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

If it comes to a point when only one opinion can be expressed, I'd rather you just lock the thread...

bigbay
Nov. 24, 2003, 08:40 AM
Lexiboo, I think the point was this is still a public bulletin board and negative and derogatory comments about anyone need to be screened and limited.

The mods just recently closed a thread about another well known trainer that asked "Does anyone know this trainer?" and the poster immediately went on about what a horrible person he was and his questionable training methods. Yet the same thing has been happening here for eleven pages!

It is probably well-documented that GM is not the most ebullient trainer out there, and the negative things that have been said are not necessarily slander, but quite a few of them are heresay.

I realize, as someone pointed out, that GM needs no defenders, but I think it is inconsistent and setting a bad example on these boards to tell one new member she can't post negatively about her trainer on a public BB, and then let her look over and see the same thing going on here, unrestrained, for over eleven pages.

If the GMD clique (George Morris Dissenters) want to go on in PT with the GMS's (George Morris Supporters) that's fine. But I think the original question of "Who's this guy GM?" has more than been answered, with many different perspectives and points of view.

(BTW, I almost laughed when Ponygal5 posted her response on page 8, because she just summarized the whole thread in one sentence. We could've saved ourselves seven pages! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif)

trailblazer
Nov. 24, 2003, 10:47 AM
I understand what you are saying. But there is a difference between negative and derogatory. Criticizing someone who makes a student roll in the dirt is quite different from bashing that person just for the fun of it.

If it is true that no criticism of GM is allowed, I can understand that and I will abide by that rule. But it is only fair for no positive comments to be allowed, either. I take issue with Weatherford's comment:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Or maybe it is time for only those with good things to say to respond.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Either allow both opinions or allow neither.

I agree that this should probably be taken private. We are seeing the worst of ourselves in this thread... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

lauriep
Nov. 24, 2003, 11:28 AM
Discussion is great, disagreeing with an "episode" is fine, but jumping on the "GM is a real jerk" bandwagon without personal experience to back it up isn't.

I think most of his supporters here are speaking from personal knowledge of the man. I know I am. And I know he isn't perfect, but neither is anyone else here. But he is a wonderful teacher who anyone here could learn from. That's right, ANYONE.

Laurie

Jumphigh83
Nov. 24, 2003, 12:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lexiboo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sbt78lw:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by G Gordon Liddy:

What about the ones who've only seen him once and _like_ him? Should they shut up too? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but you should. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK Moderators, so what happened to "no personal attacks"???????????????????? If it's good enough for MBStark, it would seem to be good enough in THIS instance!

Betsy
www.threewindsfarmny.com (http://www.threewindsfarmny.com)

Lead, follow, or get out of the way...