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View Full Version : Walk me through a jumper show? ***UPDATE: POST #17***



JFCeventer
Nov. 10, 2010, 01:19 PM
Hi everyone! :)

I'm an eventer but this winter I'm planning on taking my horse to a few schooling jumper shows in the area, just to keep his mind busy. He's young and I also think the experience will be good for his brain. :rolleyes:

So I am completely lost and have no idea what I'm doing. I'm aiming for a show in the beginning of December and I'd like to enter divisions from 2'9" - 3'. And how many classes do you usually do at little schooling shows? I was thinking like 2 or 3? Is warm-up just like any other show where there's a crossrail, vertical, oxer? About how far in advance of your class do you know your order? How early do you usually arrive at shows (in relation to your class times)?

Sorry for all of the probably very simple and stupid questions! I'm sure most people wouldn't even worry about this stuff and would just figure it out when they got there but I am so determined to know EXACTLY what to expect so I don't freakout about it. :lol: I'm also sure jumper shows are more similar to eventing (in terms of warm-up, walking courses, etc.) then I'm giving it credit for.
Also, any other info you guys have for me would be great!

TIA! :)

diddlez66
Nov. 10, 2010, 01:38 PM
I think it is great you are being so prepared. You will feel better when you get there because you will know what to expect and therefore you and your horse will probably enjoy the experience much more. And yay for you noy being afraid to try new things!

But I will let other people with more experience with these sorts of shows answer your questions... :D

sar2008
Nov. 10, 2010, 01:55 PM
It really depends on the size of the show your going to. Is it a bigger jumper show (think HITS) or a smaller local one?


Hi everyone! :)

So I am completely lost and have no idea what I'm doing. I'm aiming for a show in the beginning of December and I'd like to enter divisions from 2'9" - 3'. And how many classes do you usually do at little schooling shows? I was thinking like 2 or 3?

This is what I would do. Maybe 2 divisions?

Is warm-up just like any other show where there's a crossrail, vertical, oxer?

Sometimes. At the smaller schooling shows, there is normally only two jumps.

About how far in advance of your class do you know your order?

Like I said before, it depends on the show. With the bigger ones, its pre-entry and you know when the show starts. The local ones sometime let you pick your order of go right before the division/class starts

How early do you usually arrive at shows (in relation to your class times)?

I come 1hr before....I hate waiting around. I like to get there, tack up, school for 30 minutes and go in the ring.



GOod luck and have fun!!

chillydc
Nov. 10, 2010, 02:08 PM
Hi! Sounds like you will have a good winter!

1. The divisions at schooling shows are usually 3 classes and that is what a lot of people will do.

2. Warm up is usually 2 jumps (sometimes more depending on the size of the ring). They are usually oxers and verticals and people (their trainers) can raise or lower or switch between oxers and verticals as they please while they are warming up.

3. They do not usually have a posted order of go at schooling shows, or even at A shows unless there is a classic. You will probably not really know your order until right before the class starts or even as it starts. You just say, "I would like to go in 4." or "I'll go first." etc. Just offer when you can go to the gate keeper and they tend to sort it out.

4. I try to get there a 1/2 hour before I think I will have to ride. I call the horse show a lot to get updates on where they are in the order etc.

Good luck!

chillydc
Nov. 10, 2010, 02:11 PM
I forgot to say that the jumps in the schooling areas are not flagged, they can be jumped both directions. I am not sure but I think Events flag the schooling jumps? I remember that from my pony club days.

Seal Harbor
Nov. 10, 2010, 02:15 PM
I've judged little CT/Jumper combo shows. One thing the eventers do not know (and I don't expect them to) are the rules for the jumpers. Things like the difference between a speed class, timed first jump off - where you stay in the ring, and power and speed classes. Go to the USEF.org site - look up the section on jumpers and then figure out what Table the specific classes you are going in are run under. Table II 2b, time first jump off, Table II 2c - Power and Speed, Table II Sec. 1 - Speed class. Those would be the typical of what you would find at a schooling show.

Walking the course - usually done prior to class, not always, may be done first thing in the morning. Judges might run more than one card if there are classes with the same specifications except age of rider or the horses experience. Look at the posted courses, sometimes there aren't many, if any course changes - just moving the ground lines or changing oxers to change the direction they are being jumped. If there aren't many changes in the actual course walk all the lines in whatever directions they are ridden in for each course if you only get to walk in the morning. Sometimes you are allowed to school the first course as well during an open schooling time first thing.

At schooling shows there may not be a posted order of go, you would take yourself down to the gate person with the white board and see how many in the class, check in get your number written down on the board and go school. If there are not a lot of entries the show may move along pretty fast, even though the shows try to have a schedule it is nothing like having a scheduled ride time at an event.



Schooling area jumps - depends on the show, typically 2 or 3 jumps at least one is an oxer, but they are not usually flagged as they are in eventing warm up area. People jump them in both directions. If you don't have someone to set jumps for you ask if you can follow or share jumps with someone who does. My trainer usually grabs a jump, has the person warm up over an oxer first (they have warmed up on the flat) depending on the class it may go up a couple of times and get wider, then he builds that into a into a vertical, jump it a couple of times, then they go to the ring.

MHM
Nov. 10, 2010, 02:27 PM
I don't know how it works with eventers, but be sure you know how things work with the timers. If they follow USEF rules, and have electronic timers, the judge sounds a tone and then you have 45 seconds to cross the starting line. If you start before the tone, you are eliminated. At a smaller show, they might use just a whistle and a stopwatch. Be sure you note where the start and finish markers are so you don't miss them.

Good luck and have fun. :)

DMK
Nov. 10, 2010, 03:40 PM
Just to clarify about the schooling area: It is the nature of the h/j beast to have someone setting jumps, so typically a fence is claimed. It's not a bad system, but it's definitely different. So if you are there alone schooling your horse over whatever jump is handy, you need to keep an eagle eye on that jump. People see a jump without a "crew" and assume it's open and will literally (in the case of the less observant) start breaking down/raising that jump as you are approaching it. BTDT, got the t-shirt.

I've never had a person be rude about me telling them I'm using a jump, it's just that it's such a rare exception to have someone schooling a horse w/o a jump crew that people don't think twice about an "empty" jump.

ExJumper
Nov. 10, 2010, 03:47 PM
Just to clarify about the schooling area: It is the nature of the h/j beast to have someone setting jumps, so typically a fence is claimed. It's not a bad system, but it's definitely different. So if you are there alone schooling your horse over whatever jump is handy, you need to keep an eagle eye on that jump. People see a jump without a "crew" and assume it's open and will literally (in the case of the less observant) start breaking down/raising that jump as you are approaching it. BTDT, got the t-shirt.

I've never had a person be rude about me telling them I'm using a jump, it's just that it's such a rare exception to have someone schooling a horse w/o a jump crew that people don't think twice about an "empty" jump.

I just wanted to second this post. From what I've read here posted by eventers who dabble in the H/J show world, this is one of the biggest differences for them. As DMK said, it's not a bad system, but it will be different from what you're used to.

Also, I'm not sure if this was addressed, but usually it is VERY hard to guesstimate when your class will go, unless you are in one of the first few classes of the day. People add and drop classes at will in H/J shows, and there may be trainer conflicts or other issues. So unless you want to risk missing your class entirely, you should be prepared to spend more time there than you might like to.

You may see a class listed as "Not staring before x:xx o'clock," but this usually only applies to showcase classes or other things that are someone different from your usual show. There's no such thing as a "ride time" at a H/J show!

LeeB10
Nov. 10, 2010, 05:17 PM
Read the USEF rulebook - it is very helpful. Learn the jumper tables so you know what type of class you are going into. Typically in every division there are three classes with different tables so it is important to learn them.

Here is the Jumper portion of the rule book:

http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2010/17-JP.pdf

Seal Harbor
Nov. 10, 2010, 06:32 PM
I just wanted to second this post. From what I've read here posted by eventers who dabble in the H/J show world, this is one of the biggest differences for them. As DMK said, it's not a bad system, but it will be different from what you're used to.

Also, I'm not sure if this was addressed, but usually it is VERY hard to guesstimate when your class will go, unless you are in one of the first few classes of the day. People add and drop classes at will in H/J shows, and there may be trainer conflicts or other issues. So unless you want to risk missing your class entirely, you should be prepared to spend more time there than you might like to.

You may see a class listed as "Not staring before x:xx o'clock," but this usually only applies to showcase classes or other things that are someone different from your usual show. There's no such thing as a "ride time" at a H/J show!

Not an eventer here. Own a hunter, judge the jumpers, used to ride in the jumpers as a junior. Sister events so I have a clue as to how events are run and what surprises them at h/j shows.

There are guesstimates on the day sheets at the shows I go to as to when a class will run. Each round takes about 2 minutes, if you can multiply the number of horses in the class by 2 that will give you an idea of how long a class over fences will run. Then with jump offs add a bit more time.

ExJumper
Nov. 10, 2010, 07:23 PM
Not an eventer here. Own a hunter, judge the jumpers, used to ride in the jumpers as a junior. Sister events so I have a clue as to how events are run and what surprises them at h/j shows.

There are guesstimates on the day sheets at the shows I go to as to when a class will run. Each round takes about 2 minutes, if you can multiply the number of horses in the class by 2 that will give you an idea of how long a class over fences will run. Then with jump offs add a bit more time.

Except when they don't. Like in smaller rings (indoors) or the 2'6" ring. Ponies take longer. Courses where the first fence is coming back toward the in gate take longer. Classes where lots of people go back-to-back take less time. Sometimes they drag, sometimes they drag and water. Sometimes they do neither. Course walks take different amounts of time. Hacks do, too. Is there a jog? Tack on some more time -- tack on less if everyone is at the ring, tack on more if someone is rushing back from the barn to jog. Are they presenting ribbons for the classics? Are they letting everyone do their second classic round, or going with a cut off? Someone scratches and a class doesn't fill so it's canceled.

The OP asked:


How early do you usually arrive at shows (in relation to your class times)?

And my point was that there aren't "class times." Although there will always be guesstimates, I certainly wouldn't trust them if I was trying to show up on the day of. And if you are trying to determine when to show up at the show, unless you can be calling someone knowledgeable on the show grounds all morning, there isn't any way to GET that guesstimate.

I find that the two-minute rule is only really useful if you are on the grounds and hearing announcements and are able to check in at the in-gate of your ring on a fairly regular basis.

Better safe than sorry.

DMK
Nov. 10, 2010, 07:35 PM
yes, I can generally look at a schedule, know the numbers, know the timeliness habits of h/j princesses (cold damp morning, older A/A's may make it to the ring in a timely manner, but older children/younger A/A's? don't bet on it), ask about what ring has priority and can mostly get a good guesstimate for when my class is going to go, but this is a skill honed over years of hard fought trial and error, it's not for some namby pamby newbie. ;)

JFCeventer
Nov. 10, 2010, 07:42 PM
Thank you everyone for all of your help!

These little schooling shows are very tiny, with maybe 5, 10 tops, people in the divisions, so I'm guessing they should move along pretty quickly. I will have people with me so I don't think I'll have to worry too much about the warm-up ring. And, it sound like the times they estimate for the classes are never right, so would I be better off getting to the show pretty close to when it starts? I certainly don't mind doing that, especially if it will ensure peace of mind :)

Thanks again, and keep it coming, I need all the help I can get :winkgrin:

spacytracy
Nov. 10, 2010, 07:58 PM
Thanks for posting this - I'm headed to my first jumper show in YEARS and am nervous as heck.

Peggy
Nov. 10, 2010, 08:05 PM
It is considered polite for your people to look around and ask if other people in the warmup ring are using a jump before they merrily begin to reset it.

If I'm hauling in I'll generally figure out when my class might go if all the stars align and then arrive an hour or so before. Knowing fully that the stars never align unless they are about to collide with each other, so that extra hour is probably two hours, or even more as the day "progresses." Figure 2 minutes a round for hunters and any jumper class not requiring a jump-off, 2.5 minutes for jumpers with jump-offs, and 15 minutes for flat classes. Then add more time for breaks, conflicts, and whatnot. And that last sentence is what separates those that have been doing this for decades from the newbies. Bunch of low/pre-green classes first thing? Factor in a suitable amount of time for trainers to get multiple horses to the ring, etc. Show management known never to start on time? Add more time. And if you have no idea of how many horses are in each of the classes before yours--good luck. Most of the shows we go to have entries up online the night before, but it's a best guess since they generally also take post entries.

For years I employed a strategy of selecting divisions to enter largely based on how close to the beginning of the day they were scheduled. Let's see, we need some 3' hunter mileage--baby greens at 8 or AAs at who-knows-when-o'clock. We'll take a warm-up round and the baby greens and be out of there before half the pros are on their horses.

Edited to add:
The back gate people can be a big help. They are used to legions of people walking up to them and asking if they have an approximate time for "x" class to go in the ring. Often they even know about secret breaks for water and drag.

JFCeventer
Nov. 10, 2010, 10:23 PM
Okay so now I just got my hands on the prize list and entry form. To avoid trying to explain it to you and confuse the heck out of everyone here's the link to the prize list:

Prize List: http://www.westbrookhuntclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Reindeer-Prize-List.pdf

So obviously the jumper classes are 36, 37, 38. And I read the rule book and know that Table II sec. b is when you have a clear round, you continue on to the jump off, AFTER you hear the signal, and Table II sec. c is when you just continue on to the jump off right after the finish line. I think for this first one I want to do the 2'3"-2'6" so that I don't have to worry about height on top of just getting organized and figuring this jumper thing out :D I'll probably move up to the 3'-3"3 at one of the other shows in the series.

So I guess my question is: Do I specify the height? If so, how because all it says is High/Low Jumper? And say I enter Class 36, does that include the first round and jump-off of ONE single class? I said in my original post that I would probably do 2-3 classes (I'm aiming for two now). So if I wanted to enter two classes would I enter 36 AND 37 for example? Sorry if I'm not being specific or my questions don't make sense, this whole entry process is probably the simplest thing ever, my mind just can't grasp it :winkgrin: Thanks!

MHM
Nov. 10, 2010, 10:29 PM
You would enter each class, say 36 and 37, which includes the jump-off if you're clear in the first round. :)

I can't get the prize list to load, but sometimes a class might run at two different heights, and you just tell the ingate person which section you want to do.

As Peggy said, the ingate person is an excellent source of information. :yes:

LeeB10
Nov. 10, 2010, 10:49 PM
Okay so now I just got my hands on the prize list and entry form. To avoid trying to explain it to you and confuse the heck out of everyone here's the link to the prize list:

Prize List: http://www.westbrookhuntclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Reindeer-Prize-List.pdf

So obviously the jumper classes are 36, 37, 38. And I read the rule book and know that Table II sec. b is when you have a clear round, you continue on to the jump off, AFTER you hear the signal, and Table II sec. c is when you just continue on to the jump off right after the finish line. I think for this first one I want to do the 2'3"-2'6" so that I don't have to worry about height on top of just getting organized and figuring this jumper thing out :D I'll probably move up to the 3'-3"3 at one of the other shows in the series.

So I guess my question is: Do I specify the height? If so, how because all it says is High/Low Jumper? And say I enter Class 36, does that include the first round and jump-off of ONE single class? I said in my original post that I would probably do 2-3 classes (I'm aiming for two now). So if I wanted to enter two classes would I enter 36 AND 37 for example? Sorry if I'm not being specific or my questions don't make sense, this whole entry process is probably the simplest thing ever, my mind just can't grasp it :winkgrin: Thanks!

Looking at that schedule the low jumpers are 2'3" - 2'6" and the high jumpers are 3' - 3'3". I assume (which is never good to have to do so I might call the show office to make sure I'm right) that the arena will have fences which are 2'3" - 2'6" in it for the lows and the 3' - 3'3" range for the highs. I guess then you would sign up for 36 - 38 LOW jumpers.

LeeB10
Nov. 10, 2010, 10:51 PM
You might want to consider this as well. Should you not go clear in the power phase in one or two of the classes - which is the first part of the course prior to the jump off and the easier of the two parts on the horse, then you could add the third class as well by doing an add at the show. (done in the show office and delivered to the backgate prior to going into the class)

and Table II section C also requires a clear power phase to continue.

Peggy
Nov. 10, 2010, 11:13 PM
Given that the Hi-Lo hunters say to specify height, the same is likely true for the jumpers. But, as LeeB110 said, never assume. Always safer to ask.

JFCeventer
Nov. 11, 2010, 12:15 AM
Okay, I think I got this down now (finally... :))

I will contact the show office and ask about the high/low jumper thing. Thank you everyone for all of your help. And if you have anythig else to add, please do!