PDA

View Full Version : Has anyone ridden/jumped/shown in a Myler three ring combination bit?



faraway46
Nov. 5, 2010, 05:20 PM
I just bought one and was considering trying it out on my slightly long backed jumper who tends to lean while turning right.
I am showing him in a straight bar pelham and he has a good contact on it but three strides to the jump he leans. Also, while turning right (specially in 90º angles to a jump), he requires a series of leg, seat and back maneuvers to keep him from leaning on the right side of the bit, dropping the right shoulder and drifting left (simply turning shouldn't be sooooo complicated). There is no chance I can get a jump from a right to left angle coming in on a right lead without total contact/pull from the right rein: he sees the opening and tries to avoid the jump, but only on his right lead (he's lovely to the left). During the week I flat in a copper mouth gag and jump in the pelham, but I feel I am in control only if he cooperates. The minute he stresses/fits, I have to be forcefull and we all know in modern jump courses there is no space to wonder who's the boss... ;) .
He is healthy, fit and his teeth are floated recently, so no hidden ailments here.
I ride him every day with profesional help and he feels great schooling at home (rarely does anything) but when he stresses, right hand stiffness has become his defense mechanism.
Any opinions on the bit or any other?
Thanks.
V

CBoylen
Nov. 5, 2010, 05:42 PM
My friend's field hunter goes in one of these in the field and schooling, and shows in a straight pelham for exhibitions. I haven't ridden him, so I wouldn't normally comment, except I've watched him a lot, and he's a terrible turner in the myler. It's just too much bit and the further restriction of forward motion makes him go almost sideways. So I'm going to doubt this is the bit for you, based on that experience.
Straightness requires forward, not more hand control, and I don't think you can "pull" a horse straight in the circumstances you're describing. I would personally be working on the left leg and indirect left hand so that you can push him straight, and I don't think a particular bit is going to be your answer. In any case, I would definitely stop thinking about the right side as being the stiff one. It's the left side that needs work if that's the way the horse is going.

TheOrangeOne
Nov. 5, 2010, 05:55 PM
Try some sharper spurs. He sounds like he is running through your left leg. I personally ride in hammerheads because my horse preferred them, but I find that they are infinitely helpful in general for a horse who doesn't need a sharp spur except when they are ignoring your leg, and then you have the corner of that flat end to hook them with.

faraway46
Nov. 5, 2010, 07:27 PM
My friend's field hunter goes in one of these in the field and schooling, and shows in a straight pelham for exhibitions. I haven't ridden him, so I wouldn't normally comment, except I've watched him a lot, and he's a terrible turner in the myler. It's just too much bit and the further restriction of forward motion makes him go almost sideways. So I'm going to doubt this is the bit for you, based on that experience.
Straightness requires forward, not more hand control, and I don't think you can "pull" a horse straight in the circumstances you're describing. I would personally be working on the left leg and indirect left hand so that you can push him straight, and I don't think a particular bit is going to be your answer. In any case, I would definitely stop thinking about the right side as being the stiff one. It's the left side that needs work if that's the way the horse is going.

Yes, it is obvious the left side is the problem here. He is leaning into my left leg. I considered a different bit because he does respond to forward impulsion (although not quite respecting the left aid) but leaning into the pelham. If I could get that forward impulsion with something he respects more, then it would be easier for me to rough up a good kick on the left when he wants to play dirty, but I have to have a steering wheel to veer him where that kick is aimed at. I can probably do this (and I have) if he does it in a large turn right, but if it's a jump just a few strides from the rail (like todays show), I don't have enough control or space to balance him up after the corrective "nudge" of my leg or get the leaning out of him if the distance is a forward one. I just feel he doesn't respect the pelham enough. All is well if he agrees, but the minute he doesn't, I am always winning over his resistance by a wee bit, without much left to spare if he doubles the challenge.
He has all his basic dressage movements well, except for his countercanter, which I know should be vital for this situation. He immediately resisits and swaps.
As for progress, he has done a good share, but days of frustration like today eventually come once in a while. We couldn't even mount him in the ring because he would throw a fit. Couldn't even consider riding him in a crop, spurs or even answering your cell phone. Whatever you were wearing when you started, you kept on, so the best desition was to freeze the first few minutes of warm up.
Nowdays he is pretty sweet although he still takes small things with drama and a snort. He is fearfull and unsecure but more fearful of what a rider will do to him so is brave to go over any jump. I ride him in spurs and a crop, accepts sugar while mounted and is much more secure of people, but the one thing that prevails after 10 months of training is this left side resistance when the going gets rough. I guess he is just insecure about the height change in his shows (he's just turned 7 and is beggining his first 1.30 shows). I feel he doesn't freeze when faced with them but getting rigid is a way of stress and fear. He used to do this much more evidently when I started him in 4ft and now he is very solid in that height. I know I can confirm him in this height if I have enough control to guide him how I think is best and not leave it up to him. That is why I basically was wondering about bits, but good insight is greatly appreciated. I want to be the best I can be with him and I know he has much, much potential so all advice is much appreciated.
Thank you and let me know more of your thoughts. I highly respect your experience.

faraway46
Nov. 5, 2010, 07:30 PM
Try some sharper spurs. He sounds like he is running through your left leg. I personally ride in hammerheads because my horse preferred them, but I find that they are infinitely helpful in general for a horse who doesn't need a sharp spur except when they are ignoring your leg, and then you have the corner of that flat end to hook them with.

He responds to forward well with the spurs I am wearing. He just leans into the forward motion, even when I use more left spur (he speeds up but I can't give that impulsion any direction). That is why I was inquiring about another bit that he migt respect more. He seems ok in the pelham if all is agreeable, but the minute you raise the stakes (speed or angles) he gets stiff knowing he has the strength to get away with it.

BrookdaleBay
Nov. 5, 2010, 07:44 PM
Maybe its more of a schooling issue. Try schooling tight turns into smaller jumps, and that way he wont feel as stressed.

CBoylen
Nov. 5, 2010, 07:49 PM
Thanks, I understand your issue much better now, I think.
What happens when you jump in the gag instead of flatting in it?
From what I'm picturing, I think you're correct in heading towards an elevator or a gag type bit, but I would think a gag, or maybe a gag with a stronger mouthpiece, would get the the necessary quick lift that you seem to need, rather than encouraging them more to lift and breakover, like the three ring elevator or the pelham. Or maybe the old-school straight elevator someone was asking about on horse care the other night, they'd probably sell it to you cheap ;).

Equsrider
Nov. 5, 2010, 09:12 PM
Have a 17.2 hand long backed WB, exact same issue turning right, we use a variety of bits on him, seems to help to keep him guessing.Ours is a comfort snaffle 3 ring w/ rope type hackamore.The nice thing about the Myler is when they lean the shoulder in, if you Pick up your turning rein and then use an indirect outside rein, it will pick him up and lift him out to his outside rear, allowing him to step under with the inside hind, which crates the balance for lifting the inside shoulder instead of leaning his entire left side against your right side and his forehand.We worked on jumping and turning and slicing the jump and turning at very low heights, maybe 3'...and also lots of canter poles and upward to downward transitions....It worked like a charm, HOWEVER< it is Not enough bit for the show ring for the half halt for DD but the results of occasional schooling like above seem to carry over in his turning capablities..We also hack in a d-ring snaffle some days, and if we go for a lesson with trainer use the 3 ring.. then have our show bit, we use just for shows. He is a big Boy with a huge step, kinda like a semi compared to a porsche in turning, and his half halts in the line are better.He can actually add a stride now, if need be, instead of leaving one out which is no problem either...except not what you want to do at 1.30 or more!!:eek:
That's my 2 cents....

faraway46
Nov. 5, 2010, 09:25 PM
Thanks, I understand your issue much better now, I think.
What happens when you jump in the gag instead of flatting in it?
From what I'm picturing, I think you're correct in heading towards an elevator or a gag type bit, but I would think a gag, or maybe a gag with a stronger mouthpiece, would get the the necessary quick lift that you seem to need, rather than encouraging them more to lift and breakover, like the three ring elevator or the pelham. Or maybe the old-school straight elevator someone was asking about on horse care the other night, they'd probably sell it to you cheap ;).

I have schooled him in his regular gag and he does fine, but he can bully it when necessary. I was also considering a stronger gag, but some say you can hollow their backs over jumps? I don't see how if you have an educated hand (Meredith Beerbaum showed WEG with a gag on Checkmate...not that I'm comparing myself at all, but I would guess someone as acomplished as her would not use it if it was detrimental...). In fact, when I did the Neco Pessoa clinic he said the pelham was a good choice for the moment to encourage him to move towards the jumps with some leaning, but in the future when he's more confident he might need some type of elevation (like his 3 ring Pessoa). That is why I decided to buy the combination bit, because I tried a normal three ring jointed snaffle and he goes up but with a stiff poll (maybe the combination bit helps him break more?). With the gag the effect is the same but with more flexibility. I have a full mouth double jointed wire gag which to me would be too harsh, but you never know. He's managed to grab on to more logical bits...
Do you have an online image of a straight elevator bit? Or do you mean the three ring Pessoa? Just to know if we are talking of the same one...I think I have a long shanked elevator that I bought on sale many moons ago and never used it....You can never have too many shoes or too many bits... ;) .
Thanks again.

faraway46
Nov. 5, 2010, 09:36 PM
Have a 17.2 hand long backed WB, exact same issue turning right, we use a variety of bits on him, seems to help to keep him guessing.Ours is a comfort snaffle 3 ring w/ rope type hackamore.The nice thing about the Myler is when they lean the shoulder in, if you Pick up your turning rein and then use an indirect outside rein, it will pick him up and lift him out to his outside rear, allowing him to step under with the inside hind, which crates the balance for lifting the inside shoulder instead of leaning his entire left side against your right side and his forehand.We worked on jumping and turning and slicing the jump and turning at very low heights, maybe 3'...and also lots of canter poles and upward to downward transitions....It worked like a charm, HOWEVER< it is Not enough bit for the show ring for the half halt for DD but the results of occasional schooling like above seem to carry over in his turning capablities..We also hack in a d-ring snaffle some days, and if we go for a lesson with trainer use the 3 ring.. then have our show bit, we use just for shows. He is a big Boy with a huge step, kinda like a semi compared to a porsche in turning, and his half halts in the line are better.He can actually add a stride now, if need be, instead of leaving one out which is no problem either...except not what you want to do at 1.30 or more!!:eek:
That's my 2 cents....

What do you mean by not enough bit for the show ring for the half halt for DD (is that dressage day in Eventing?). If so, I do jumpers, so the only person grading me for my half halts is me (and I'm not very objective.... :winkgrin: ). It does sound it might work. I do many ground pole excercises with him (currently we are working on a figure 8 over a 3'3" vertical, coming back and forth getting the leads and changes nice and light) and it has worked well at home. He just recurs to this when you pressure him in some way (more speed, more angle or more height...or all three).
Your info is great. Thanks.

SkipChange
Nov. 5, 2010, 11:24 PM
FWIW, I tried my horse in one of these and we lost ALL power steering. It's a lot of bit and gets them to sit up nicely and I loved the way he carried himself on the straight away. But it was just way too much brakes and zero power steering. I'm all about using your legs and body to turn but with this bit I had to amp up leg and seat aids x10 in order to get him to turn. He turns much better in literally every other bit I have ever ridden in.

If you have one available to try you can go for it. But I'm not sure I'd go drop the big bucks for one without trying it out first. CBoylen seems to be giving some good advice.

Bits my horse turns well in:
Double twisted wire full cheek if he's fit and fresh as all get out.
French link full cheek when he's being a good boy.
A rope hackamore (with a fleece cover) is what I have him in now, turning is not quite stellar but he sits up well in it and doesn't lean with his shoulders.

Equsrider
Nov. 6, 2010, 08:39 AM
[quote=faraway46;5205639]What do you mean by not enough bit for the show ring for the half halt for DD (is that dressage day in Eventing?).
:lol::lol:
No DD is Dear Daughter, at a mere 115 lbs...like I said her horse has a HUGE stride and if she can't get it in check it's a problem...and when he gets into the show ring jumping over 4' he becomes VERY stong at times and latches on to the bit and drags her skinny butt around.He can jump from anywhere, but she really doesn't appreciate the lack of response from him at times, she's walked the course he hasn't :winkgrin:and well , he needs to do what she says!!!

faraway46
Nov. 6, 2010, 08:47 AM
FWIW, I tried my horse in one of these and we lost ALL power steering. It's a lot of bit and gets them to sit up nicely and I loved the way he carried himself on the straight away. But it was just way too much brakes and zero power steering. I'm all about using your legs and body to turn but with this bit I had to amp up leg and seat aids x10 in order to get him to turn. He turns much better in literally every other bit I have ever ridden in.

If you have one available to try you can go for it. But I'm not sure I'd go drop the big bucks for one without trying it out first. CBoylen seems to be giving some good advice.

Bits my horse turns well in:
Double twisted wire full cheek if he's fit and fresh as all get out.
French link full cheek when he's being a good boy.
A rope hackamore (with a fleece cover) is what I have him in now, turning is not quite stellar but he sits up well in it and doesn't lean with his shoulders.

I already purchased one but haven't used it. Since it's somewhat new and I live in Argentina, I had no way to borrow it, so I went ahead and splurged.
I also have a full cheek double twisted wire gag. I always thought it was THE bit for him, but common opinion is that it's too harsh...I honestly think not, having felt the leaning power of my mount, and have been chewing on the idea of using it for almost six months. The fact is that one tries to make things work with the least amount of bit power, but after 10mo of training, he has not advanced much in the "right turn showring rigidness" department (although in schooling at home, flatwork, etc, he is a million times better). I would think it's time to pull out the big guns and start trusting my instincts...

Equsrider
Nov. 6, 2010, 08:50 AM
this is the bit we show IN only, it's a Mikmar
http://www.mikmar.com/bit-pages/2-ring-elevator-PS.html

works very well!! but the Myler combo for schooling helps the Mickmar to be more effective in the show ring....good luck!:)

also when we tried this horse they had him in a double twisted wire Gag, we were in Denmark. I can't seem to find one here in the states...

faraway46
Nov. 6, 2010, 09:01 AM
[quote=faraway46;5205639]What do you mean by not enough bit for the show ring for the half halt for DD (is that dressage day in Eventing?).
:lol::lol:
No DD is Dear Daughter, at a mere 115 lbs...like I said her horse has a HUGE stride and if she can't get it in check it's a problem...and when he gets into the show ring jumping over 4' he becomes VERY stong at times and latches on to the bit and drags her skinny butt around.He can jump from anywhere, but she really doesn't appreciate the lack of response from him at times, she's walked the course he hasn't :winkgrin:and well , he needs to do what she says!!!

...your DD and I are living parallel lives. Her story sounds VERY familiar... ;).
I'm 5ft "tall", if you want to call THAT tall, and also weigh about 115lb (47kg?). My stubborn equine companion is not high at all (16h) but has a huge stride and much power in his hindquarters. Here's the little bugger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCYpdipJxZ0
You can tell how I have to tug on the right rein before the yellow oxer (between jumps 5 and 6) and how he looses impulsion and want to drift right before jump 8 (after the combination). Actually, this is one of his good rounds. He has exagerated this move much more at times, to the point that yesterday he moved so far left, we knocked a rail with the standard!

faraway46
Nov. 6, 2010, 09:08 AM
this is the bit we show IN only, it's a Mikmar
http://www.mikmar.com/bit-pages/2-ring-elevator-PS.html

works very well!! but the Myler combo for schooling helps the Mickmar to be more effective in the show ring....good luck!:)

also when we tried this horse they had him in a double twisted wire Gag, we were in Denmark. I can't seem to find one here in the states...

I have had one for ages and never used it (I have a rule of buying all types of bitting that shows up my path on sale....you can never have too many...). That bit keeps showing up in these posts and I have always thought that it was the correct bit for him, but, as I posted before, the word is that it's very harsh...
I'll repeat what I posted before: I think it's time to pull the big guns and start trusting my instincts...
Thanks for the input. It was more than helpful!

SquishTheBunny
Nov. 6, 2010, 09:20 AM
LOVED IT!!!

Worked amazingly well on my friends jumper. He is very soft when he wants to be, but does sometimes get freight trainish after jumps. He pulls forward though, not down.

It has a soft mouth piece, the horse likes it a LOT better than a slow twist loosering. The hackamore didnt apply pressure until you had to take a firm grip. I think the biggest thing with riding in a combo bit, it your timing and release. Its a firm, but soft correction (meaning, non-twist/corkscrew mouthpiece) combining nose and mouth...but there is still lots of pressure when you pull, so you do have to release.

The 3rd ring was too much, and the steering was obviously not as good as a simple loosering. However it wasnt horrible, and the horse is not green so it workd ok. She always rode on the second ring.

Horse LEARNED from it....didnt depend on it. He now waits before diving into corners (well, 99% of the time!) with a plain loosering.

I think you will find it a better training tool than "harsh show bit".

faraway46
Nov. 6, 2010, 09:41 AM
LOVED IT!!!

Worked amazingly well on my friends jumper. He is very soft when he wants to be, but does sometimes get freight trainish after jumps. He pulls forward though, not down.

It has a soft mouth piece, the horse likes it a LOT better than a slow twist loosering. The hackamore didnt apply pressure until you had to take a firm grip. I think the biggest thing with riding in a combo bit, it your timing and release. Its a firm, but soft correction (meaning, non-twist/corkscrew mouthpiece) combining nose and mouth...but there is still lots of pressure when you pull, so you do have to release.

The 3rd ring was too much, and the steering was obviously not as good as a simple loosering. However it wasnt horrible, and the horse is not green so it workd ok. She always rode on the second ring.

Horse LEARNED from it....didnt depend on it. He now waits before diving into corners (well, 99% of the time!) with a plain loosering.

I think you will find it a better training tool than "harsh show bit".

Exactly what I want: a training tool. You don't want to stay educating forever: one hopes the horse learns and then you can count on the education you gave him...move down on the bit ladder once he understands what you need and the best way for him to go.
This thread has been awesome! Thanks for so much info!
V

showjump
Nov. 6, 2010, 10:13 AM
Here's a picture of the Bit CBoylen was talking about. http://www.equusport.com/category.php?category_id=50 Jimmy Williams designed it many years ago. It might just work for you.

faraway46
Nov. 6, 2010, 06:19 PM
Here's a picture of the Bit CBoylen was talking about. http://www.equusport.com/category.php?category_id=50 Jimmy Williams designed it many years ago. It might just work for you.

I bought it many years ago on sale somewhere I can't recall and never used it. You can't imagine the times I looked at it and asked "why on earth would I buy this one?" but I guess if you wait long enough, the most difficult questions answer themselves! :winkgrin:
I'm going to try all the suggestions next week and see which one feels best. I have a big show on saturday and I hope to have it settled by then...

sar2008
Nov. 10, 2010, 11:04 AM
I used one on my guy. He schooled quiet and soft until we got into the ring, he would root a bit the last five or so strides to the fence.

I always used it with two reins though. I only ever needed the elevator rein (on the second ring) to check him off me a bit then rode mostly on the snaffle.