Was I Treated Unfairly? -rant- [Archive]

LisaX4156

Mar. 8, 2004, 10:10 PM

Well I've had a pretty crappy day. (I did have a good weekend tho)

I went to go see my horses today, and was almost there but had to come home cuz I had my sandals on instead of my tennis shoes.. That was a pain. While I was gone, the new BO calls me, and asks me to call her. So I get home and I call her. She asks me if I'm coming out today.. I tell her yes. Then.. she tells me that I have to move my horses!! I'm like why? She said because my 2 horses kept going thru the electric fence. She said on saturday when she turned them out they touched the fence then started hauling around the paddock, running thru the fences (the fences are 2 strand tape with the step in temporary posts). So anyways.. she goes on to tell me that she has to keep them in the arena because they don't know electric fences. She said that she's had to electrify the arena fencing to keep them off of the fence.

So she goes on saying how I was 'un truthful" with her about a few things. One of which would be the elec. fencing thing. She asked me if my horses knew electric fencing before I moved there.. I told her that Utah did, but I didn't know about R Rated. I then began explaining his situation before I got him and what type of environment he came from. She acted like I have owned him forever and I've only had him since the beginning of January!!! I told her that!! So basically she's accusing me of lying, which I am not. That just pissed me the hell off. I also explained to her that I have proof that Utah has been in an electrified setting before with a colt who also didn't know anything about fencing. She kept insisting that he kept going thru the fence then if he kept going thru it now! I told her no.. he and the colt both got zapped about 3 times then they both stayed away from the fence. I also told her that Utah hadn't been in the electrified area for no longer than 3 months.

She also said that I raised a red flag when she asked me for my previous BO's names and phone #'s, and I was hesitant to give them to her.. I told her .. What do you expect? It's totally understandable.

So anyways.. I'm majorly stressed out right now. She also told me I can't ride my horses on her property!! That's just wrong. ARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH.. Anyways... I said screw boarding. I'm bringing them home and I will just have to deal with the heat from Animal control. I"m sick of this crap. Oh.. then she asks me if I plan on keeping the grey horse (R Rated).. and I said yes.. then she said.. Well you're going to have a hard to control horse on your hand if he's already throwing you off'.. ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHH ... I got thrown cuz he spooked and hadn't been ridden in well over a year and he's only 3 !! I told her that in a snotty voice.

Ok.. sorry 'im ranting.. I'm just so pissed off right now at what she was accusing me of and was saying. Screw it.. my horses are going to be coming home hopefully within the next week then I can get partial board back. I feel I was badly mistreated. My horses haven't even had a chance to settle in yet! They've only been at her place since Friday!!!!!

<sigh> .. Sorry for the rant.. I hope you don't mind http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .. What do you guys think? Do I have a right to be mad?

Lisa

Owner of:

· AQHA Guerratera
· Murphy, 9 yr old Paint gelding
· Ufology 'Utah' 4 y.o OTTB gelding Utah's Page (http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/utah.html)
· R Rated 'Artax' 3 y.o TB Gelding R Rated's Webpage (http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/rrated.html)
Member Of:
Lazy People Clique; Mighty TB clique; OTTB clique; Thread Killers clique

LisaX4156

Mar. 8, 2004, 10:10 PM

SBT

Mar. 8, 2004, 11:00 PM

I've never heard of horses running through an electric fence...one or two zaps, and they usually keep WELL away from it! Was this fence even on? Has the BO tested it lately? She may have a "break" in the current somewhere, or it might be inadequately charged. Her horses probably leave it alone because they tested it when it was new.

So before you both really get into it, have a walk out to the paddocks and make SURE the fences are installed properly and actually working.

If they are, I don't know what to tell you. There is nothing wrong with the barn owner for not wanting her property destroyed. It wasn't nice of her to accuse you of lying about your horses, though. As much as we like to think we know our horses' behavior, they ARE horses, sentient beings with their own minds and agendas. We can't always predict what they're going to do or explain why they do it. The BO should be educated enough to understand this. If she's not, shame on her! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

So while she's justified in wanting you to leave because your horses are destroying her property, she's completely missing the fact that you couldn't have known they would do this. Based on that alone, I think you're better off elsewhere.

"Good horses train themselves. It's the common ones you can't figure out what to do with."
~Jim Dennis 1923-2004

wowee zowee

Mar. 9, 2004, 05:16 AM

Weren't you asked to leave another barn recently? It sounds like you've got some rotten luck with barn owners.

Dancing Lawn

Mar. 9, 2004, 05:32 AM

You mean that you haven't even been there for a week, yet? Does her fence even work?

less hard work, more fine dining.
www.dancinglawnhorses.com (http://www.dancinglawnhorses.com) updated Feb 14/04
If guys can do it, how hard can it be?

Jasmine

Mar. 9, 2004, 05:50 AM

What does your contract say? Usually she has to give you the same 30 day notice YOU have to give HER.

Sorry to hear this. Good luck!

Predjudice is a poor substitute for thought.

Darkhollow Farm

Mar. 9, 2004, 06:16 AM

Sorry about your situation. I had a young Thoroughbred that didn't stay in electric fenced pastures. We would do the fence walk and they were all properly marked and visible but he would run through it and scream. I had to move him to a place with board fences. Simple as that. The barn owner kept putting him out in the electric even though she had board pastures as well and couldn't understand why he kept going through the fence. I never figured it out either.

If the barn owner is willing to work with you can you both do a bit of schooling with the electric fence? Mark it clearly and make certain that it is fully operational, as others have advised. I know what a pain it is for horses to go through and take down wire but things do happen. Would she be willing to work with you?

slc2

Mar. 9, 2004, 06:17 AM

don't take them somewhere that animal control will be involved, take them to a barn without electric fence. and i don't understand why you're unhappy to leave if the barn owner is so bad.

HuntJumpSC

Mar. 9, 2004, 06:22 AM

I've been following alot of your posts on these boards and from what I gather fron this one, and from all of your other ones, is there are two sides to every story. It sounds to me like you and your horses are a liability, for many reasons, and the BO is just trying to cover her butt. I can't say that I blame her, I've had had boarders come in before that were not as respresented, and it was a huge relief to see them go.
Maybe it is best you keep them at home, then if something happens, you'll have no one to blame it on but yourself.

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Phaxxton

Mar. 9, 2004, 06:39 AM

Okay, this is the second barn that you have been asked to leave in a short time. I'm sorry if I have to wonder if it's you and not the barns. One thing does sound odd to me about this barn, though, and that is where she said that she has to keep it electrified to keep them in. Electric fencing should always be on. It's more dangerous when it's not on. It's just dangerous wire when it's not turned on.

Why would animal control have a problem if you bring your horses home? Is your home not zoned for horses? Do you not have enough space? Have you had problems with them before? Putting your horses in a situation where animal control is going to get upset is a bad idea. They have regulations for a reason...

I have to say that I think it's time for a reality check for you. Two barns have said that you are a liability riding your horses. Does that not cause bells to go off? I doubt that barn owners would just kick you out for no good reason - board is income, especially with someone who owns two horses. If two barn owners don't want you riding on their property, then you're likely a liability. Putting all this together with the thread about your OTTB that you want to put in a pelham, and I'm inclined to believe that you are a liability... and perhaps need to work with a good trainer. Falling off once isn't going to make a BO kick you out. I suspect that it's not the fall, but the other times you've ridden. Just because you stay on doesn't mean you're riding safely.

This just doesn't add up. I'm inclined to believe that there are two sides to every story, and in this case I'd love to hear the other side... especially since you only talk badly about barns once you've been asked to move your horses.

TGFPT Clique

Jennasis

Mar. 9, 2004, 06:48 AM

Weren't you asked to leave your last barn because you were considered a liability (if I recall correctly you were also told you couldn't ride there either). Perhaps your horses would be better off at home with you (legally of course) since others seem to view them as somehting a a problem.

I WOULD check to be sure that her electric fencing is working properly. As Mr. jennasis is painfully aware, it only takes one tree branch or a part of a bush to short out the whole thing.

You should have 30 days to move your horse from the time you were asked to leave, just like the barn owner would expect 30 days notice from you. I would not expect the BO to refund ANY portion of your March board though because of the 30 day clause.

Remember...though eagles may soar, weasles never get sucked into a jet engine.

Soar like a weasle my friend.

OneonOne

Mar. 9, 2004, 07:07 AM

Why will Animal Control be concerned if you bring them home? Are you legally allowed to have horses on your property? Do you have problems with them taking down fences at home, too?

_____________________________________
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Seven

Mar. 9, 2004, 07:36 AM

No, it doesn't read to me like you've really got a right to be mad. Situations don't work out, and not everyone is capable of handling thoroughbreds well, including some owners.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jennasis:
I would not expect the BO to refund ANY portion of your March board though because of the 30 day clause.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just what I was going to mention. You're probably not entitled to any sort of refund, so don't count on it.

While you may want to check on the condition of the fence (it *should* always be on) there are some horse who don't respect them and can't be stabled with electric fencing. The shock is not that bad and some horses, like some dogs, just learn to deal with it as a condition of getting to go where they want to go. Even if one of your horses used to be okay with electric and his other herdmate is not, the herdmate might be inspiring him to run through it as well, since he'd rather not be left behind. You do have to train horses to understand electric fencing, and if you haven't taken the time to do that, then it's more likely you'll have problems trying to define boundaries with it.

I also wouldn't want to put my horses in any situation that might cause problems with Animal Control....so I'm not sure why you'd consider something like that.

It does certainly appear like your horses might require a more structured environment, have you looked into some local show stables with trainers and staff on site at all times? Thoroughbreds especially like structure, and would do better in an environment that provides that.

****
NEW YORK HORSE RESCUE (http://www.nyhr.org)

LisaX4156

Mar. 9, 2004, 07:48 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jennasis:
Weren't you asked to leave your last barn because you were considered a liability (if I recall correctly you were also told you couldn't ride there either). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah.. I found out the reason why I had to leave. They were scared of my 2 horses! Basically because they're so big and full of energy. They were city folk who owned a business down there.. bought a place up here figuring it would be easier work and more money boarding horses... So basically they don't know very much about horses. So they made up excuses why I should leave instead of just saying that they were scared of my horses because they're so big (Utah is 17hh and R Rated is 16hh).

And no, I wasn't told I couldn't ride there. Just this new place.

Lisa

Owner of:

· AQHA Guerratera
· Murphy, 9 yr old Paint gelding
· Ufology 'Utah' 4 y.o OTTB gelding Utah's Page (http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/utah.html)
· R Rated 'Artax' 3 y.o TB Gelding R Rated's Webpage (http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/rrated.html)
Member Of:
Lazy People Clique; Mighty TB clique; OTTB clique; Thread Killers clique

CuriousGeorge

Mar. 9, 2004, 08:01 AM

This is copied from Lisa's thread about leaving her former barn.

"Ok.. I cussed once. And that when I was flying off my horse when he bucked me off!

The insurance risk.. WTF? They said that because I got thrown from my horse I was a high insurance risk. WTF? That's why you have insurance isn't it?"

So it sounds like Lisa's riding ability was a major part of why she was asked to leave the last barn.

wendy

Mar. 9, 2004, 08:01 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>They were scared of my 2 horses! Basically because they're so big and full of energy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I interpret this to mean "horribly ill-mannered" horses. Maybe you should work on their manners, feed them less, and ride them more so they aren't so full of energy? I've boarded at several barns, and in general horses have to be really dangerously bad before they get thrown out. My own horse, while a baby, smashed down a barn door once and I wasn't asked to leave because aside from that incident he was well-behaved (had to pay for it though). Was at a place where twice a huge imported warmblood threw his rider and ran through the arena gate, smashing it to smithereens both times. She wasn't asked to leave.

Phaxxton

Mar. 9, 2004, 08:12 AM

I have owned huge horses with tons of energy. I've gotten psychos for retraining, rescues who were scared of all humans, etc. All were safe with impeccable ground manners within a short period of time. If they started out with bad ground manners, I didn't let it go on for one moment longer than necessary. Retraining started immediately and went on every day until the horses were safe and had god manners. If your horses are that ill trained, no BO is going to want to deal with them, and rightly so - certainly if you aren't working everyday to remedy the problem. Wendy is right, horses have to be pretty dangerous to handle to be thrown out of a barn based on that... And that is usually when it is obvious that the owner is either unable or unwilling to do what is necessary to retrain the horse(s) in question.

All of these ground manner/handling issues can be handled with proper training. To say otherwise is a cop out. If you can't train your horses to be safe around those who have to handle them, I suggest you find someone who can before you have a lawsuit on your hands. When two barns have thrown you out, it's time to start asking what you're doing wrong, not what's wrong with the barns...

TGFPT Clique

[This message was edited by Phaxxton on Mar. 09, 2004 at 11:20 AM.]

Jasmine

Mar. 9, 2004, 08:13 AM

My big mare has run through the gate 4 times. (she's afraid of dogs, and the BO has a couple of sled teams) Instead of asking us to leave, the BO worked with me, her, and the dogs to correct the problem.

Sounds like your horses are unpleasant to have in a boarding facility. Good luck either retraining them, or finding someone who will tolerate them.

Predjudice is a poor substitute for thought.

breezymeadow

Mar. 9, 2004, 08:19 AM

First of all - don't even THINK of messing with Animal Control unless you want to end up with your horses being legally & physically removed from your property.

Secondly - I may be wrong, but your posts make you come off as incredibly immature, & it is obvious that your horses have "issues" - manners or otherwise - that could make it difficult for you to board them anywhere unless you take the matter seriously in hand.

Third - if you continue to openly bitch on a public BB about the barns in your area, remember that a lot of folks just "read" here without posting. You could be burning a helluva lot of bridges without realizing it.

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".

FionaJ

Mar. 9, 2004, 08:57 AM

Well, considering that if the horses get out while in the barn owners care and they happened to get hit by a car causing damage, the barn owner would have a major nightmare on her hands. This is happening to a friend of mine who has great fences, but someone came in a opened some gates. Luckily, their insurance is involved. Looking at it from that point of view, I have to say that I wouldn't want your horses to put me at that risk if I were in her shoes either since she is the one responsible not you--plus she has the personal headache of dealing with putting the fencing up which is a real pain. Basically, no matter if the horses had stayed in electric fence in the past, they aren't now and the situation is not working, so the best bet is to look at this as a sign to move them before someone gets hurt.

DebS

Mar. 9, 2004, 09:38 AM

I'm not familiar with your past barn experiences but I just wanted to comment on the "misrepresentation" part.

As you start looking for a new barn, consider how you are going to describe your horses. "Young, green, OTTBs" can be a typical boarder at an eventing barn and "loco" at a laid back family facility. So think about who you're talking to - take a look at the horses the barn currently boards and let that help gauge your response. And don't say to the new barn owner, the old barn owners didn't know anything about horses. That's usually a red flag to BO. Might be true, might not be true, just say it was a bad fit.

Speaking of which ... Really try to find a good fit for your horses. Most young OTTBs do require an experienced handler who's not going to get frustrated by their antics as they learn to behave. If other people are handling them, they're part of the training package, too. Your guys are just learning, so be sure to pick a barn that will benefit them in the long run.

Right now the lesson has been to disrespect fencing. Not good.

Another thing you don't want them to learn is that their handlers are afraid of them. I agree with all the above posters that say you should work on manners, at the same time, you don't want anyone undoing what you've taught them. It might be good for you to have them at home to work on these things by yourself.

Don't know about the animal control thing, but one should stay on the right side of the law no matter what.

Good luck.

Member, Equine Artist Clique

lilblackhorse

Mar. 9, 2004, 09:40 AM

You weren't going to ride in the tennis shoes, were you? Just checking.

Anyway--just judging from this "rant" and the last one which spawned the fruitbat saying, it really sounds like you come off with a major temper problem. It also sounds like your idea of a feisty horse is another person's description of an ill mannered, poorly trained horse.

Boarding stables are not usually ones to send paying customers packing for nothing--like was mentioned in the last thread, it usually has to be somthing fairly big in their minds to make you want to leave. Pure and simple, you and your horses, for whatever reason, are a liability.

I don't understand your comments about animal control--is your home not setup to accomodate horses properly? You say you love these horses of yours, but you would actually put them in jeopardy by keeping them at home? It sounds to me like you need a reality check about your actions, and your horse's behavior so you can be a decent boarder. Perhaps these horses are too much for you?

In reading someone else's canter thread, you explained how you are using draw reins and want to use a pelham on a young TB because you have no control and he's leaning on you. Perhaps horses at this time of your life or training is not where you need to be? Your posts just always so full of spite and anger and blame to me.

I hope you take the time to sit back and breathe and think about all that has happened to get you where you are right now---and like I have told a few other people here before who were spiteful, be really careful, the horse world is a very very small one.

In asking for your old barn's name and such, karma has already come back to bite you in the butt. Not burning bridges and being grown up and professional count for a lot when living in a small town. Your actions and words I am assuming have already come full circle.

I wish you luck and hope that you can find the time to put into your young horses so that boarding establishments will want to keep you and them around. It sounds like you are between a rock and the hard place.

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Kels

Mar. 9, 2004, 09:43 AM

Oh, LBH, I think she *was* going to ride in the tennis shoes, based pictures from her website:

http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/utah2.html

BTW, Lisa, based on some of those pictures (riding in shorts & tennis shoes, your horse rearing and bucking/kicking at other horses in the field), I'd kick you out, too.

-Kelsey-
WTF? Here they are! (http://www.secretworld.org/image/high_resolution/Fruitbat2.jpg)

Invite

Mar. 9, 2004, 09:47 AM

Just a thought, but since you are able to keep 2 horses at home, maybe you should board the Paint and the QH and keep the TBs at home. You might not have as many issues boarding the Paint and the QH if they are more managable than the TBs.

DraftHorsePower

Mar. 9, 2004, 09:47 AM

ooooh um yea thats just a bit dangerous. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif tennis shoes!! *tisk tisk*

*~Emilee~*

baileygreyhorse

Mar. 9, 2004, 09:50 AM

OK, now I get it. As a former BO, there is NO way I would let a boarder ride in shorts and tennies, regardless of the horse. Insurance is too expensive for that.

Founder of the Packrats Anonymous Clique
Proud Member of the Dirty Grey Horse Clique
http://community.webshots.com/user/pnekman

Jasmine

Mar. 9, 2004, 09:51 AM

And the second time you sat on him???? Really, be careful! Leg injuries are no fun, but head injuries are worse!

Predjudice is a poor substitute for thought.

DebS

Mar. 9, 2004, 09:57 AM

Nah, it's those darned stirrups and saddle. I think you can ride in tennies and shorts as long as you're bareback.

Lisa, stirrups require a heel so your foot doesn't slip through. They do make sneakers for riding that have a heel. They're affordable and comfy.

Shorts don't seem dangerous, just painful.

I would like to say you've done a great job bringing Utah along from when you first got him. He looks terrific - and fit - which seems to be part of the problem.

Great idea about boarding the two mellow horses, but I really think the youngsters would do well at a trainer, for a few months at least.

Member, Equine Artist Clique

CuriousGeorge

Mar. 9, 2004, 10:01 AM

I know it's a minor thing compared to the other Public Service Announcements you're getting about safety, but holy sandals wearing Jesus, did you CUT that poor horse's mane with SCISSORS?!?!?!?!

Get someone to show you how to pull it. PLEASE!

*****************************
I love stupid people; they're so entertaining!

Sandbarhorse

Mar. 9, 2004, 10:07 AM

Well, let me start by saying that I have a great pic of me, at the age of 12, on my green horse, at a boarding barn in shorts and sneakers with no helmet. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

That said, you'd never catch me that way now and frankly, the helmet is req. by law on those 16 and under these days. Times have changed and so have the liabilities that barn owners face.

I checked out your website and it seems like you have a LOT of stuff to deal with. Single mom of 2 kids, 4 horses and I assume your working too (sorry, if I missed that). Wow, I'd be kind of easy to piss off too, if I had that schedule.

However, it does seem like maybe you do need to do an honest evaluation of the time you have in a day, the horses you're boarding and consider how you can make a change that will benefit all involved. I can't imagine when you even find time to ride.

Maybe you can find someone who is interested in a project horse or wants to 1/2 board and has the ability and desire to work with your TBs. Save you a few dollars, save you a few hours every week and the horses probably wouldn't have as much energy to burn if they were getting worked with more, so happier barn owner.

Then I think you should take a step back, visit a few barns and just watch what the other boarders do when they are there. Then, honestly evaluate where the differences between them and you are and which differences may make you less desirable as a boarder. As some have mentioned: 1) clothing when riding/handling horses; 2) how they interact, while riding, with others (yielding, paying attention, calling direction, etc.); 3) how they react when a horse is obnoxious, pushy, aggressive or otherwise disobedient, particularly those who have generally well behaved horses. Of course, watching those with horses you feel are disobedient may be beneficial too, as you can see what tactics lead to progress and which have no effect.

I don't know if you'll even be reading this thread anymore, just thought I'd give you some suggestions, instead of just criticizing.

In any event, good luck with whatever you decide.

LisaX4156

Mar. 9, 2004, 10:11 AM

Ok you guys..

This thread is just horrible about badgering me and bad mouthing me about exactly what happened or what I know about horses.. I am 27 and I've been around horses for 19 yrs now. I don't have to justify myself to you all and I will not.

2nd of all.. My horses have great ground manners. Ground manners is a huge thing with me and I will NOT tolerate a horse who has nasty ground manners. Those horses will be disciplined appropriately.

And yes, I ride in Tennis shoes.. So what? There's nothing wrong with tennis shoes. It's better than riding in sandals!

As for the energy.. Utah is a typey TB. Very typical behavior he has. He has lots of energy and is full of life. He was also on straight alfalfa and locked in a stall 24/7 or whenever I'd go down to the previous barn and ride him or turn him out to run. Now, he is on straight grass hay and has mellowed down ALOT.

This is all I'm going to write on this thread.. I don't deserve to be badmouthed..

Lisa

Owner of:

· AQHA Guerratera
· Murphy, 9 yr old Paint gelding
· Ufology 'Utah' 4 y.o OTTB gelding Utah's Page (http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/utah.html)
· R Rated 'Artax' 3 y.o TB Gelding R Rated's Webpage (http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/rrated.html)
Member Of:
Lazy People Clique; Mighty TB clique; OTTB clique; Thread Killers clique

On Second Thought

Mar. 9, 2004, 10:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by LisaX4156:
And yes, I ride in Tennis shoes.. So what? There's nothing wrong with tennis shoes. It's better than riding in sandals! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not if they're Jesus Sandals...Just ask Georgie. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

--The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.

equestrielle

Mar. 9, 2004, 10:17 AM

The horse looks well taken care of to me and her equipment seems to fit well, etc ... and she is wearing a helmet. I think the shorts are just a preference, shoot, jeans chafe my legs, but if you can ride in shorts why not I suppose. Sneakers are a bad idea, of course.

My suggestion is the same as others, look for a boarding barn that fits with your horse's needs and maybe one that is more casual socially. However, a casual barn where they don't mind some cussing and riding in shorts and sneakers may not be the one with board fencing and staff that knows how to handle young TB horses. So either you will have to dress it up a little and conform to the standards of a barn that can handle your horses, or really let the BO know at the casual barn what the issues are with OTTBs.

Being very forthcoming with a barn owner in the interview is really the best, just get things out in the open and talk about your horses in a frank way, then you may not have these surprises. Say, my horse is very energetic, he bucks under saddle, and he can kick at other horses in the pasture, maybe he needs a chain over his nose to be led (looks like it from the pic), I like to ride casually, I might say an expletive or two sometimes, and just see how the BO reacts to this.

Also, 16hh is really not that big of a horse. Is he wide too? I wouldn't expect someone to be afraid of a 16hh horse, that's pretty average for a english type horse around my barn.

Good luck finding a match!

Kels

Mar. 9, 2004, 10:33 AM

Lisa,

I don't mean to pick at you, and I know I've come across as rude, and I apologize for that.

The thing is, tennis shoes ARE DANGEROUS. There is something wrong with that, and we're trying to help you see that.

I think you have to be honest with yourself and your situation. Take a step out of your shoes and try and see things from another perspective. I know it's hard to admit that you're wrong- but it's not always everyone else's fault, and as an adult, you have to admit that. It's part of growing up.

I realize that you've been around horses for a long, long time- but you have to realize that things have changed; laws, things have been proven, etc. things that you may have done as a child or teenager may not be acceptable anymore because people know better.

Insurance is also a LOT tighter than it used to be. I can tell you that if I were a BO, and someone rode in tennis shoes, without a helmet (which I am not saying you did, just using as an example), got thrown off a few times (not saying you did, just an example), had a horse who made me or anyone else in the barn nervous, etc. I would ask them to change or leave, it's just too much to deal with.

Also, if I had a horse who couldn't deal with the electric tape (and I do), I wouldn't expect to board at a barn with the tape. Utah may have done fine at other places with the tape, but this new place might have some new smells, temptations, sights, scary things, etc. that have spurred a temporary change in him. And like other posters said, there may have been a shortage in the fence. Offer to help the BO find out if the fence is properly working, that way it's safer for everyone and all of the horses. If you find a short, I'd offer to make it right for the BO- offer to help with the repairs (physically and monitarily). Bow out respectfully while you still can. Thank her for allowing you to keep your horses there while you look for somewhere that will work better.

I hope that you work it out and you've gotten some good suggestions on here. It's easy for people (us other COTHers) who don't know you to pass judgements based solely on what we see (your websites) and hear (your posts are usually rants from what I have seen).

Also, while being honest with your situation, and while I KNOW you love your beasties, take a look and ask yourself if they really are as you see them, or if you are blind to their bad behaviors. If you can't afford to put them into training to get the kinks out, or don't have the time to do it youself, maybe you are overhorsed.

-Kelsey-
WTF? Here they are! (http://www.secretworld.org/image/high_resolution/Fruitbat2.jpg)

breezymeadow

Mar. 9, 2004, 10:36 AM

So let's see - you're TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD, ride in SHORTS and SNEAKERS. And particularly are riding young rambunctious TB's in SHORTS and SNEAKERS, "cuss" occasionally (well, at least when you fall off) - and yet you are puzzled as to why barn owners consider you a liability???? And your answer is: "tennis shoes are better than sandals"???? Meaning what, that sandals then are better than barefoot??? Where did you learn horsemanship deary? Off of a matchbook cover?

To be perfectly honest, I thought you were maybe, what, like 16?????? I am now more appalled by your behavior than I was before. Where oh where girl did you learn that riding in shorts & sneakers was a safety option (except for maybe bareback riding - with a helmet - on a safe horse on a nice summer day)??? No wonder you get kicked out of barns.

Good luck finding a new barn if you keep this up, because if something happens & their insurance finds out your "safety" measures - their & your "ass is grass", so to speak.

And oh - I'm so, so, sorry that you're so offended by the posts here that you literally asked for. GROW UP! And at the age of 27, this should not be something you have to be told.

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".

Jennasis

Mar. 9, 2004, 10:37 AM

I'm sorry...I never answered the original question!

NO, you were not treated unfairly. Your horses are causing extensive and Expensive damage on a recurring basis. I would ask you to leave too. If I was afraid of a boarders horse, I would STILL ask them to leave. If I saw a boarder riding in shorts and tennis shoes i would ask them to ride in a heeled shoe (and suggest pants or chaps). I don't let my students wear sneakers and my boarders are no exception. It's MY liability insurance that will increase if the boarder has an accident.

Remember...though eagles may soar, weasles never get sucked into a jet engine.

Soar like a weasle my friend.

breezymeadow

Mar. 9, 2004, 10:44 AM

Oh God - just saw your website & your pics.

If I EVER saw a boarder of mine dressed like you on my property, they would promptly be given a serious lesson in proper riding attire, & if I couldn't impress upon them the serious safety issues involved, I too would want them off the property ASAP.

You just ask for all the problems you have girl - oh, I mean woman (you are 27 after all. . . .)

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".

Weebonilass

Mar. 9, 2004, 10:45 AM

Jennasis, does that mean that your insurance will not increase if your boarder is wearing pants and boots?

I often ride in sneakers and shorts, although I'm using my bareback pad when I get that warm. and not a saddle.

I'm curious if IL and MO are the only states with Equine Liability laws?

ComingAttraction

Mar. 9, 2004, 10:46 AM

Lisa.....WOW...I usually do not respond to these type of threads, but for some reason, after reading this thread I felt like I should. I know that some posts were a little blunt, but you did start the thread asking for advice. I too checked out the pictures and saw several things that had me a little concerned.

As a trainer I am foremost concerned about safety...mine, my students and my horses. It is my responsibility as a horse trainer, rider, enthusiast etc. to have a healthy respect for my sport. Knowing the dangers, as well as all of the benefits we can get from our sport. It is also my responsibility as a trainer to set a good example for my students, peers, and prospective clients. As a border I also have to set a good example to the other boarders, BO etc. that I am safe, on and around my animals and others.

Unfortunatly liability insurance is something that everyone in this business needs to have these days. I have several rules at the barn that must be followed such as: always wear an Approved, Properly Fitted, Hard Hat, proper riding attire (britches, schooling tights, chaps) and riding boots MUST have a heel. This is for our safety and the safety of the others around that also ride/board with us. If ANYONE breaks these few simple rules they are asked to leave, no exceptions.

I think that the issue here is really your lack of concern for others and their rules (I am not trying to put you down, this is just my observation from reading your posts and viewing your website pictures). I am in no way saying that you are unqualified to do what you are doing...I do not know you well enough and have not seen you ride or handle your horses to make that kind of judgement.

I am a very laid back person and sometimes do not understand why people (read BO)get upset over things that seem so trivial...but they are entitled and they do own the facility. So due to the fact that I want things to work out we talk things through and address any and all concerns so that we have an agreeable resolution.

Maybe it would help you to talk things out and really hear the other person and their concerns out. Really let them speak without interrupting. Oftentimes people just want to be heard. Then without getting emotional try to find a solution. I really hope the best for you and your horses, they are very nice and it seems as though Utah has come a long way from when you first purchased him.

Remember you do not get a second chance to make a First Impression! GOOD LUCK!

Nickelodian

Mar. 9, 2004, 10:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by LisaX4156:
I am 27 and I've been around horses for 19 yrs now. I don't have to justify myself to you all and I will not.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quantity of knowledge does not equal quality.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.scatteredoaksfarm.com (http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com)

equestrielle

Mar. 9, 2004, 10:48 AM

Speaking of tennis shoes, it's not just in the saddle where they are a liability, it's on the ground.

I recently got my foot smushed by a very large three year old Dutch Warmblood who decided he needed to move quickly away from an imaginary scary thing in the arena onto my foot. I was wearing paddock boots and got away with a bruised big toe. I don't know what would have happened with sneakers, I would probably still be healing.

lilblackhorse

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:00 AM

Wow, the tennis shoes comment was a joke---gee, I guess I didn't know that people are actually stupid enough to ride in them (especially on green TB's) on a regular basis. (sure, if you are going to swim on a horse bareback or something, but that's a different story.)

It sounds like a liability nightmare, and of course no barn owner in their right mind is going to open their doors to someone who could end up costing them their livlihood.

Quantity of knowledge does not equal quality

Amen sistah http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Ellipses users clique....."I Hate Stall Rest" & HYOOTGP & TGFPT cliques
"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

Jennasis

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:04 AM

Weebonilass: If someone gets hurt and sues me because they got hurt due to being improperly attired then YES my insurance goes up.

Remember...though eagles may soar, weasles never get sucked into a jet engine.

Soar like a weasle my friend.

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:15 AM

Lisa, some of these posts are extremely harsh. Some made me wince.

But there is a lot of truth in some of them, and you cannot deny that your attitude in the post (especially in light of the fact that you recently posted another angry thread about being kicked out of another barn) made you an easy target for suspicion about the other side of the story.

And as someone who personally knew a rider whose foot slipped through the stirrup and she was dragged to her death, I can say that YES there is something wrong with riding in tennis shoes!!!!! Think of your kids.

No, you don't deserve to be "badmouthed," but you do deserve a good kick in the pants to make you a little more aware of where these BOs are coming from.

***
The hardest to learn was the least complicated.

CoolMeadows

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:19 AM

Lisa, I'm getting the impression that you may live in a predominately QH/Paint/Trailhorse area... am I right? It seems from your posts that the barns you've been at may not be familiar with OTTbs. If that's the case, boarding out the Paint and QH that you currently have at home and moving your Tbs home might be the best idea.

And I'm curious about why Animal Control would be involved if you moved them home. Would 4 horses be more than you're zoned for?

Seahorsefarmtobe

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:21 AM

Wow...I gotta say no, I don't think you were treated unfairly. And I gotta say yes, i would probably be inclined to kick you out also. Your attitude reeks of selfishness and has in fact, become your liability...
and let's not EVEN discuss riding in tennis shoes OR the "cutting" of the mane!!!

SBT

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:27 AM

Wow...those pics do tell all, don't they? Lisa, I'm sorry but as the owner of 4 horses, you should be able to tell when the girth you're using is too short, the saddle tips forward, and the martingale is too big. In the first pic of you sitting on your horse, the lunge line is looped on the ground near his hind legs. The lunge whip is also nearby. No one should have to tell you this is dangerous. It's also dangerous to have your horses racing around the arena trying to kill each other. You took some great action shots, but if the horses are being this aggressive, they should not be turned out together. Again, something you should know by now!

Another disturbing thing I spotted was a small, shirtless child, mostly cut out of one of the photos. Honey, if your improperly-dressed children are running amok in addition to your horses running amok, I can't blame any barn owner for not wanting you around.

About half of the photos on your website display a a huge lack of consideration for safety...yours, your horses, and your child's. Pictures really are worth a thousand words.

I agree that Animal Control is not to be trifled with. You should know that if they get involved regarding the care of your horses, there's also a chance CPS (child protective services) will also be brought in to investigate how you care for your children. You don't want that to happen! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif You also don't want to be fined large sums of money or possibly spend time in jail if you're convicted of animal cruelty. What will happen with your kids then?

I'm not trying to badmouth you, nor is anyone else. THIS IS REALITY. You may not agree with it, but it's the way things are, and the way people percieve you and your horses. Inaccurate or not, fair or unfair, your pictures and your words do not show you in a good light. Again, that's not personal...it's just the way things are. All of us who have taken the time to respond to this thread have done so because we CARE, not because we wish to "badmouth" you for no good reason. We are just trying to give you a wake-up call before someone else (animal control, next barn owner) does it in a much, much nastier way.

Please sit back, take a deep breath, and take a good, hard look at yourself and your situation. Most single moms scarcely have the time and money for one horse, let alone four. Maybe it's time to stop overextending yourself, and cut back to one or two.

It's so easy to turn a blind eye to the parts of our lives we're ill equipped to deal with. I know I do it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Sometimes it's only through the input of other people that you can begin to see what isn't working and why. It's all about being honest with yourself. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

"Good horses train themselves. It's the common ones you can't figure out what to do with."
~Jim Dennis 1923-2004

Kels

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:30 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by seahorsefarms:

and let's not EVEN discuss riding in tennis shoes OR the "cutting" of the mane!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why do you even need to say anything about how she cuts her horse's mane? So maybe no one taught her how to properly do it, oh well, it's not your horse, big deal.

It was funny when George pointed it out, but it's not funny to MAKE FUN of her for it.

-Kelsey-
WTF? Here they are! (http://www.secretworld.org/image/high_resolution/Fruitbat2.jpg)

SBT

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:32 AM

Kels, I agree. I think his mane looks nice! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

"Good horses train themselves. It's the common ones you can't figure out what to do with."
~Jim Dennis 1923-2004

breezymeadow

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:34 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Weebonilass:
Jennasis, does that mean that your insurance will not increase if your boarder is wearing pants and boots?

I often ride in sneakers and shorts, although I'm using my bareback pad when I get that warm. and not a saddle.

I'm curious if IL and MO are the only states with Equine Liability laws?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, it doesn't mean that your insurance rates won't increase, BUT it can mean a difference in what rate you are charged.

I have just begun investigating farm insurance, & every application I've been sent has detailed forms to fill out requesting DETAILED info on whether or not you INSIST & ENFORCE proper SAFETY riding attire; what detailed info you insist upon re: boarders' horses; etc., etc.

Let's just say that dear "Lisa" here is an insurance company's nightmare. Any respectable barn would kick her out the very first time they saw her in her "shorts & sneakers" outfit. They wouldn't even have to meet her unruly horses. . . . http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif (P.S. And no - it's not necessary to give up your bareback riding. At the last barn I boarded at, we were fully allowed to ride bareback - so long as we wore approved helmets - & if we wanted, we could wear sneakers as well. And before you rear your head in protest, the only reason sneakers/"tennis shoes"(for you affluent types . .. ) were allowed for our summer bareback riding nights was because they become less of a safety issue without a saddle.

Although I can't believe I have to spell this out to a supposedly really horse-savvy 27-year-old who knows everything - heels on shoes/boots are needed to prevent a possible DEADLY riding accident. Particularly on a young or green horse.

If you are riding bareback then "heels" are not as important. (Although I must say that I always feel safer working around horses in leather shoes - but then, I am a breeder, so am working with young horses - but, oh, wait - so is 27-year-old Lisa. Silly me. . .. )

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".

[This message was edited by breezymeadow on Mar. 09, 2004 at 02:43 PM.]

[This message was edited by breezymeadow on Mar. 09, 2004 at 02:45 PM.]

[This message was edited by breezymeadow on Mar. 09, 2004 at 02:46 PM.]

Seahorsefarmtobe

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:38 AM

Kels, ummmm, well scissors can be quite dangerous...ya know..the sharp, pointy tips? If the horses' ground manners are so impecible, it would stand to reason that they would allow mane pulling...just a thought.
and here's another thought...perhaps wearing proper riding attire would promote a more disciplined approach in Lisa's actions?

Jasmine

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:40 AM

Not necissarily, seahorsefarms. My mare will stand all day, but it will take you ALL DAY to pull her mane. I don't have the patience to do that. I cut it with bandage scissors, but I'm good enough at it now that it looks pulled anyway.

Predjudice is a poor substitute for thought.

Prairiebrass

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:43 AM

ok, first let me get my flame suit on ........ wow, some of these posts are just PLAIN OLD NASTY and biotchy.... they scream "KNOW IT ALL BIOTCHES" ....... how about some nice not so condescending criticism or "Thou shall not condescend?".... (btw-that quote was given to me from my student worker not that it matters but what the heck?)

breezymeadow

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:51 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Prairiebrass:
ok, first let me get my flame suit on ........ wow, some of these posts are just PLAIN OLD NASTY and biotchy.... they scream "KNOW IT ALL BIOTCHES" ....... how about some nice not so condescending criticism or "Thou shall not condescend?".... (btw-that quote was given to me from my student worker not that it matters but what the heck?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Take a deep breath. Release.

Read Lisa's original post(s).

Look at her Website/pics.

Read the posts here - thoroughly & thinking "beyond the box" so to speak. Try to read past what you feel is "nasty". .

Then tell us we're wrong.

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".

Vandy

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:52 AM

I think there have been plenty of nice, non-critical posts that focused on the safety issues. Agree with those posters 100%.

FWIW, my lesson kids are required to wear long pants and heeled shoes from their first lesson on. It's a safety thing. I could care less if Lisa's horses' manes are cut, roached, or flowing to the ground. I think a lot of the other posters agree that the safety issues are the problem.

OneonOne

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Prairiebrass:
ok, first let me get my flame suit on ........ wow, some of these posts are just PLAIN OLD NASTY and biotchy.... they scream "KNOW IT ALL BIOTCHES" ....... how about some nice not so condescending criticism or "Thou shall not condescend?".... (btw-that quote was given to me from my student worker not that it matters but what the heck?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The beauty of COTH is that when necessary, the posters here will "tell it like it is." And "what it is" ain't always pretty.

_____________________________________
Any coupon works! Beware of paper cuts!

vxf111

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:56 AM

Lisa,

As someone who has always boarded and has moved a decent amount (and thus been at many boarding facilities) I can tell you right now that a lot of what you're doing isn't going to fly at most boarding establishments. I'm not making judgments of this stuff, just telling you that boarding facilities are going to ask you to leave when you do these things...

1. Let your 6 and a half year old son ride with no helmet and sneakers. (http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lisax4156/detail?.dir=/My+Horses&.dnm=Josh+%26+tera+3.jpg)(Even in a Western saddle with feet kicked out of the stirrups, on the lunge, most trainers/ barn owners are not going to be okay with this.)

2. Let your daughter ride in no helmet and sneakers. (http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lisax4156/detail?.dir=/My+Horses&.dnm=Laura+%26+Tera.jpg) Same reasoning as above.

3. Let your horse run the fencelines like crazy. (http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/utah3.html). This upsets the other horses and could case a potentially dangerous situation. And apparently (from what you've said), he does this on the electric fenceline too. If he runs on board fencing and electric tape, what is a barn owner to do?

4. Let your gelding harrass your other gelding, kicking at him and upsetting horses in another pasture. (http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/utah4.html) They're tearing around like maniacs in what appears to be a dirt arena where people have to come and ride later. That's bound to upset other boarders and the barn owner/ manager.

5. Ride in sneakers and shorts yourself. (http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/utah2.html) Are the shorts a safety hazard? Probably not. Are they out of line with what other people typically expect, probably yes. It makes you stand out, why not follow what other people at the barn are doing in terms of attire?

6. Let your son walk around barefoot near the horses. (http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lisax4156/detail?.dir=/Pics+of+me&.dnm=LisaJosh%26Bay.jpg) Yowza! I got my foot stepped on recently in field boots and it was black and blue for 2 weeks. Barefoot and a child? He could easily have his foot broken!

Right or wrong, agree or disagree, this is not the way people typically do things and other people are going to view these actions as unsafe. And when you do things other people feel are unsafe-- they're going to be uncomfortable and you're going to get asked to leave. If you want to have more success at boarding facilities, you are going to need to change your behavior so that it's in line with that that barn owner considers safe behavior.

~Veronica

P.S.- Your puppies are cute. The one that tries to get at the rats, is he trying to play with the rats or kill them? My dog used to try to play with my gerbils, she didn't mean them harm but she would have killed them in playing. I couldn't tell what your pup was up to.

"The Son Dee Times"
"Sustained"

DebS

Mar. 9, 2004, 11:56 AM

Something to think about -

I'd venture to say, the reaction on this thread is on par with the reaction from your boarding facility. There's a standard of horsemanship expected on this BB as there is at any decent barn.

Notice no one is saying "Mein Gott, where are your tall boots and fullseats?!!" No, folks are just recommending standard attire you'd find at any tack store and are recommended in the most basic of horsemanship books.

Even tho' you've been around horses for 27 years, I'd still recommend any of the Pony Club books. They offer simple, safe guidelines that most barns follow. At least by knowing what other people expect from horses and owners, you'll save yourself a few surprises from BOs.

Member, Equine Artist Clique

[This message was edited by DebS on Mar. 09, 2004 at 03:04 PM.]

Amy

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:02 PM

seahorsefarm- I have a gelding that has the best ground manners- but he HATES having his mane pulled. My vet says that some horses are more sensitive than others- I have a friend with a tb that is the same.

My real comment is that I can't believe someone got insurance at a boarding farm that used hot wire tape paddocks! Well unless the perimeter was fenced in something else. The company I used insisted on wood/pipe/high tensile/field fencing etc. I do have hotwire on my property but it is to enforce the other fencing. I guess that probably differs by state.

And Lisa- what everyone else said. I would not care if you rode in shorts but I would nix the tennis shoes with a saddle. Since it is my barn and my insurance payments I make the rules. Check your contract- in mine I give them 7 days to move if the horses will not work out. I have never had to do this- but I would probably refund the unused portion of the board for that month (minus expenses to repair fences). But then again I don't make my living from this either.

Kels

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:04 PM

Now can I say it?!

MEIN GOTT!
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Your son is BAREFOOT around the horses!!!! And that fence where your QH mare and the cow are- OMGiH! I see your son is barefoot in a few more of those pictures, as well.

Now I am starting to get very sad for your children. Not you, just your kids.

Amy- we have some paddocks that just have the electric tape. I think it probably depends on where you're at.

-Kelsey-
WTF? Here they are! (http://www.secretworld.org/image/high_resolution/Fruitbat2.jpg)

Seahorsefarmtobe

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:11 PM

What other animals do you own besides the four horses & dogs...I see photo of "Cow"...

...and OK already with the mane-thing...

silver

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by seahorsefarms:
Kels, ummmm, well scissors can be quite dangerous...ya know..the sharp, pointy tips? If the horses' ground manners are so impecible, it would stand to reason that they would allow mane pulling...just a thought.
and here's another thought...perhaps wearing proper riding attire would promote a more disciplined approach in Lisa's actions?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh, please scissors are not dangerous, just admit you were being nasty.

Lisa, boarding barns have rules and they generally have a reason for even the most ridiculous ones. If you board you are going to have to abide by them, it's their place.

Some of the posters here are taking the righteous outrage too far, but that's what they do every chance they get, look at some other threads, it's nothing personal. You've had some good advice inaddition to the rants, I'd take it.

maxamillian

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:13 PM

Lisa, you asked for people opinions.
They gave you them. You should've been prepared for any response.

And I belie you were not treated unfairly. I would’ve asked you to leave also,
I agree with everyone that you seem like a very high insurance risk. Letting your son walk around barefoot? Letting your daughter and son ride without helmets or riding boots?
Are you CRAZY? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

And this is coming from a fifteen-year-old girl who always wears her helmet around horses, always wears boots, riding pants or jeans.

Oh,
And don't mess with the animal control.
I work at a kennel, and see dogs coming in all the time for even the smallest reasons.
And if you've had a run-in with them before (NOT saying you have) then I'd suggest DON'T anger them.

-------
Pictures (http://community.webshots.com/user/mister_max)

SunshineGA

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:18 PM

I resisted posting but... that picture of the drive by kick at Murphy sends shivers down my spine... Do you know how much damage that can do? Even if he did miss? What if Murphy went through the fence? What if he twisted his leg the wrong way? Yes... I know horses play, and some play hard (I too have had a young OTTB gelding who was pushing 17hh between 3 and 4 yrs)

Your horses may seem well behaved but spunky to you, but not to anyone else.

We had a horse kick another horse's eye out... no ok... POPPED the horses eyeball and it had to be surgically removed (I have pictures) and the owner of the kicker refused to admit it was her horse.

And anyone with barefeet around horses, regardless of whether or not they are a child... have you ever heard of Hookworms? Liver flukes? Many parasites enter the body through barefeet... which is why we wear shoes.

Yes, I'm sorry everyone else has posted very harshly but it is all because A) you need a wake up call B) we all care about horses' well-being whether they are our own or someone elses(which is why we consider ourselves horse lovers...) and C) we care about the safety of children.

I know some of the posts seem like attacks, but PLEASE don't ignore them. Take it as constructive cristicism because you need it. When everyone you know that knows anything about horses tells you "YOU ARE SOMETHING WRONG" you may want to re-evaluate your situation and take a long hard look at yourself.

We're not all here to shoot you down to make ourselves feel better. If you are seeking advice, take it! Don't just assume that because we see something differently (as we obviously do!) that we don't know what we're talking about....

"When life gives you limes, make margaritas!" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Member of the IHSA clique

http://community.webshots.com/user/sunshinengcsu

Seahorsefarmtobe

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:20 PM

silver: OK..I was being mean. But I also did have a point...if the OTTB's are kinda wild, it may not be safe!

breezymeadow

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:21 PM

Forget it - this girl/woman thinks she knows everything.

What's odd is that she looks very (very) young on her website. A lot younger than 27.

Gee, have we COTHers been thru THAT before???

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".

silver

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>that picture of the drive by kick at Murphy sends shivers down my spine <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is a perfectly normal picture of two horses playing. I have seen mine do that a million times and they've managed not to cripple each other http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Kels

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:22 PM

Actually, based on those pictures (specifically, this one (http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lisax4156/detail?.dir=/Pics+of+me&.dnm=LisaJosh%26Bay.jpg)), I think she looks really old.

-Kelsey-
WTF? Here they are! (http://www.secretworld.org/image/high_resolution/Fruitbat2.jpg)

Seahorsefarmtobe

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:24 PM

I wouldn't say "really" old...but then, I'm "really old" @ 42! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Kels

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:26 PM

REally old compared to what she says http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Kelsey-
WTF? Here they are! (http://www.secretworld.org/image/high_resolution/Fruitbat2.jpg)

breezymeadow

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:26 PM

Yeah, Lisa - when was this shot taken???

Stop trying to make the rest of us feel like you are riding these guys on a regular basis. What are they doing now - with YOU riding???

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".

Indie

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:29 PM

As an observer on this post, it is starting to take a turn for the worse. As horse owners, barn owners/managers, it's okay to provide our opinion on some points that she needs to take note of, but let's not make comments on people's ages, etc! Besides, she said she wasn't going to post anymore...so you might be wasting your bandwidth.

Phaxxton

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:31 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Weebonilass:

I'm curious if IL and MO are the only states with Equine Liability laws?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There are only 5 states WITHOUT equine liability limiting laws... Having the laws doesn't mean you're immune from suit, which is expensive, and it doesn't mean the cost of you insurance won't go up if an accident occurs.

As for Lisa, she obviously knows everything, so I vote we all stop wasting our breath. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I still stand by my position that the pics and her previous posts show a dangerous, dangerous situation... But apparently ignorance is bliss. Glad she's not at my barn.

TGFPT Clique

SunshineGA

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:38 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by silver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>that picture of the drive by kick at Murphy sends shivers down my spine <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is a perfectly normal picture of two horses playing. I have seen mine do that a million times and they've managed not to cripple each other http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is why I said that I realized horses play hard... I have had a BIG YOUNG OTTB gelding before... so I probably shouldn't have said anything and its not so much the kick (I know horses kick....) its Murphy's situation...but I also never took picture of my horse doing such things and thinking they were cute...

I realize you have been sticking up for her... for good reason... I don't want to run her off (which she already has been)!

But Lisa has a history of being kicked out of barns (I think... gathered from other posters- don't flame me if I'm wrong). And there is probably a reason for it, but she doesn't seem to think so. Which is what we're all trying to explain to her.

But oh well...

"When life gives you limes, make margaritas!" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Member of the IHSA clique

http://community.webshots.com/user/sunshinengcsu

silver

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:45 PM

Some of you are way out of line.

Sunshine GA, the horse is rolling. They do that. The other horse probably just got up and is kicking out in play. They do that quite a bit too. Your whole post smacks of justifying your earlier comment. At least have the grace to apologize or just leave it.

And then for someone else to sugges that this poster is scamming the gov't http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Some of you (and it always seems to be the same posters) really are a nasty bunch when you decide to demonize someone. You should be ashamed.

FrenchFrytheEqHorse

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:47 PM

Going back and reading your posts, I am not sure if this is a joke or not? Yes, falling off/getting bucked off means you are an insurance risk. Yes, that is what insurance is for, but why would a BO risk their insurance going up and put up with ill mannered horses when they can bring in lower risk customers??

Sugartowne II- "French Fry"
Ears To 'Ya- "Jake"
http://community.webshots.com/album/86540446bdOIrj

Nickelodian

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:49 PM

Out of line or not, we can all use treasures like this (http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/images/dcp_0030.jpg) one to show what not to do.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.scatteredoaksfarm.com (http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com)

Seven

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by silver:
Sunshine GA, the horse is _rolling_. They do that. The other horse probably just got up and is kicking out in play. They do that quite a bit too. Your whole post smacks of justifying your earlier comment. At least have the grace to apologize or just leave it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Were you present when that photo was taken, silver? I, myself, was not. Nevertheless, that horse certainly doesn't look like a horse rolling to me...rather one who is making a sliding stop and turn to avoid getting kicked. There are several interpretations to both the photos and the events posted here.

Seahorsefarmtobe

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:50 PM

yup...the comment about welfare was over the edge! Maybe she is independently wealthy...that's a whole lotta animals/people to care for....cha ching!

Kels

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:51 PM

Actually, the post about the government was a nasty blow.

But wow, Nickelodian, thanks for finding that picture!

And this one?! OMGIH!!! http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/images/bay3.jpg

http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/images/morrobay.jpg

-Kelsey-
WTF? Here they are! (http://www.secretworld.org/image/high_resolution/Fruitbat2.jpg)

wanderlust

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Kels:
Actually, the post about the government was a nasty blow.

But wow, Nickelodian, thanks for finding that picture!

And this one?! OMGIH!!! http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/images/bay3.jpg
http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/images/morrobay.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good catch, Kels, that stuff is HIGHLY poisonous.

~formerly Master Tally~

DraftHorsePower

Mar. 9, 2004, 12:57 PM

hmm yea that was a nasty blow- deleted, i was just wondering outloud when i shouldn't have been. hehe

eeek those new pics are quite frightening though.

*~Emilee~*

SunshineGA

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by silver:
Some of you are way out of line.

Sunshine GA, the horse is _rolling_. They do that. The other horse probably just got up and is kicking out in play. They do that quite a bit too. Your whole post smacks of justifying your earlier comment. At least have the grace to apologize or just leave it.

And then for someone else to sugges that this poster is scamming the gov't http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Some of you (and it always seems to be the same posters) really are a nasty bunch when you decide to demonize someone. You should be ashamed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um when did I say anything about the picture of the horse rolling?

And the horse kicking out is the SAME horse that is kicking out by the way... just thought I'd let you know.

What am I apologizing for? I said the picture sends shivers up my spine.... I KNOW Lisa cannot help it that her horse kicks.... but well I was trying to explain that I can see how the horse can have a respect issue.

I for one was not trying to demoinze her. I clearly stated that I do not want to run her away and that we are trying to help her realize something is wrong with the way she takes care of her horses.

'nuff said

"When life gives you limes, make margaritas!" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Member of the IHSA clique

http://community.webshots.com/user/sunshinengcsu

Magnolia

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:03 PM

Yes, the barn was wrong to kick you out. They should have continued to allow your horse to tear through their fence and get loose. They should have continued to care for your horse, even if they were scared. They should have let you ride in a dangerous manner as well.

Then, when your horse got killed or you broke your neck, you'd have every right to sue them for negligence.

I'm sorry if they were rude to you, but really, it's their right to board or not board your horse... if they want you gone, they want you gone, unless you have a contract - heck, some poor lady got kicked out of a barn for being in the way of a hunter princess.

And why go against Animal Control? You remind me of one of those people who just want drama everywhere they go..... and will never be happy.

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

SunshineGA

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:04 PM

nm, sorry I was thinking of 2 seperate photos.... but yes that paint definately does not look like it was rolling...

"When life gives you limes, make margaritas!" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Member of the IHSA clique

http://community.webshots.com/user/sunshinengcsu

DraftHorsePower

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:04 PM

sorry but LOL what is the paint program editing for? http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/images/magictrotting3.jpg

*~Emilee~*

Kels

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:08 PM

She had no pants on, Emilee- you can see that in a few other pictures.

http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/images/morrobay.jpg (The only unedited one)
http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/images/magic%26laura.jpg

http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/images/magicbuck.jpg

-Kelsey-
WTF? Here they are! (http://www.secretworld.org/image/high_resolution/Fruitbat2.jpg)

jumper11

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:09 PM

Holy Moses!! Your kids chances of getting hurt running around like that are pretty great, yikes... If you don't care about your safety, although I notice you're wearing a helmet, at least have the decency to put helmets on your kids.... Have you ever had your foot caught in a stirrup, or had head injuries? I have its horrible... Not to mention the fact that it looks like there are no fences on that property, a horse could run a long time with your foot caught in the stirrups.

Edited because I was being too harsh... sorry

[This message was edited by jumper11 on Mar. 09, 2004 at 05:33 PM.]

DraftHorsePower

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Kels:
She had no pants on, Emilee- you can see that in a few other pictures.
http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/images/magic%26laura.jpg

http://hometown.aol.com/lisax4156/images/magicbuck.jpg

-Kelsey-
WTF? http://www.secretworld.org/image/high_resolution/Fruitbat2.jpg<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh lordy lordy!

*~Emilee~*

Seahorsefarmtobe

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:15 PM

Nickelodian: are http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif those hooves curves upward in back?????

The Fjord Jockey

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:16 PM

Okay, granted I have seen some things on this thread that I don't agree with, but this is all I am going to say:

Some of you people are just downright snotty biatches, you know that? Really, that's why I stopped posting on here so much. Flat out arrogant snots, who make REAL horsemen laugh.

And seahorse: You've always been a cow.

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

Seahorsefarmtobe

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:25 PM

Soup: I don't know why you're calling me a cow..unless you misread my post (GAWD - I hope no one did that)...I mentioned a COW, because, well, in her webshots is a photo of her cow, who is named COW! I then proceeded to inquire about other possible animals...thinking perhaps she had a large farm of her own (which she mentioned bringing her horses home to).
And Soup, we've never even had a conversation, so I don't know why you were so nasty to me?! Perhaps you should go back to not posting...you need an attitude adj.

Jasmine

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:30 PM

I hear Erin coming. Be nice guys.

Predjudice is a poor substitute for thought.

Erin

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:32 PM

Everyone, just KNOCK IT THE HELL OFF! Cripes, it's like a public stoning all of a sudden.

You can say whatever you like, but you have to be polite and respectful about it. Certainly, you can offer constructive criticism on safety issues, and feedback on the boarding situation. That's it.

Some of you are way WAY out of line, and the glee with which you're tearing someone you don't even know to shreds is frightening. Makes me glad I don't know some of you in person. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Indie

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:38 PM

Thank you Erin, it was starting to resemble sharks in a feeding frenzy...

The Fjord Jockey

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:42 PM

No seahorse, but I've read your posts (actually they're so bad that someone brought them to my attention).

Out of all the people who don't use constructive criticism and just start pointing out petty flaws, you are the worst.

That being said, I am done with this horribly out of control thread.

Erin: A great forum, but some people on here keep the nice ones from posting, strictly because they know they are going to be unfairly slammed.

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

Seahorsefarmtobe

Mar. 9, 2004, 01:56 PM

Soup: are you confusing me with Seahorse? I am seahorsefarms...and apparently the mods haven't had a prob w/ my posts...and nothin I said was nasty...if you'll go back, you'll see...I simply said yes, I would have kicked her out.

bigbay

Mar. 9, 2004, 02:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Erin:
Makes me glad I don't know some of you in person. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Makes me glad I didn't go to highschool with some of you, too. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

As far as constructive criticism goes, there are a few considerate, informative posts on the first two pages that hopefully you can find of some use and take to heart, Lisa.

Edited because it occurred to me you may not be aware that oleander, the large flowery bush in the background of the pictures with the grey horse, is extremely poisonous to both humans and horses (and other animals), and the other post about this didn't really make that clear. Even one leaf can be lethal for a horse, so you may not want to let your horse graze under that bush (and depending on how old your kids are, keep them away as well). That's all.

"It is good to be fine."

[This message was edited by bigbay on Mar. 09, 2004 at 05:19 PM.]

The Fjord Jockey

Mar. 9, 2004, 02:17 PM

No, seahorse, I am just thinking of posts on threads such as the one where the woman had to leave her horses for a few days and you said, quote, "Family shmamily" and then proceeded to call her a troll?

If you want to discuss this further (which I don't), I'd suggest not doing it here because it has nothing to do with the original post.

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

BelladonnaLily

Mar. 9, 2004, 02:31 PM

"Was I Treated Unfairly?"

Based on the information you've provided and your previous thread(s), no.

breezymeadow

Mar. 9, 2004, 02:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by bigbay:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erin:
Edited because it occurred to me you may not be aware that oleander, the large flowery bush in the background of the pictures with the grey horse, is extremely poisonous to both humans and horses (and other animals), and the other post about this didn't really make that clear.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What the h*ll does oleandar have to do with this woman's clear & flagrant lack of safety to herself, her children, or her boarding barn??

Do you really think that after all of the other posts here that she will probably ignore that she is going to root up & replant her oleander? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".