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View Full Version : Doris Ragland xx, Full sister to Albany



Equsrider
Oct. 12, 2010, 12:19 AM
anyone has any info on this TB damline? Doris Ragland was full sister to Albany who won Olympic gold with Leslie Burr Howard in 84 Olympics and was 1983 AGa horse of the year, he was a gelding. They bred Doris ragland to Galoubet which produced both Grand Jete and U Galouway....I have a granddaughter from this line and looking for a selle francais sire for her next breeding...any suggestions? I unfortuantely I don not konw my dam's motherline, but I am sure it was noteworthy considering who owned the stallions at the time....any help greatly appreciated...

What would one think of Galoubet on both top and bottom 3 generations back???

vineyridge
Oct. 12, 2010, 01:07 AM
Hijo Doris's last three foals were all by Khalex. They all had Ragland as the last name, and were bred by James Ragland in Oklahoma. It's very likely that he owned Khalex toward the end of Khalex's breeding career. Doris Hijo's sire, Hijo The Bull, is supposed to have run short track (QH) races in Texas (not exclusively). Hijo Doris's first foal by a different sire was a winner with Black Type in bull ring TB racing in Louisiana. He also survived 82 starts. They both ran very short sprints.

Hijo The Bull was was by Spotted Bull, Bulldog (Teddy son) x Spotted Beauty.

I'd try something other than Galoubet in the SF line. I might worry about too much Trotter. :) I know they have stallions with Dark Tiger (Nasrullah x Spotted Beauty) in their pedigrees. Alligator Fontaine may have that line. It would be a nice touch to pick that up, since Spotted Beauty is definitely worth linebreeding on and Nasrullah never hurts.
http://www.equilignees.fr/pedigree.php?nid=79490
Noren was Katie Monahan Prudent's jumper, wasn't he?

The rest of Hijo Doris's pedigree is very forgettable except for Mad Hatter and The Nut who was the sire of Rivit. It would be very, very hard to find anything with that line.

Actually, I take the last statement back. Hijo Doris has a line to the full brother of Bachelor's Double, who is the damsire of Furioso. There is a lot that can be done with that. Maybe try doubling both Furioso AND Spotted Beauty? And some Relic to double the Fair Play, who was the Mad Hatter's sire, as well as Spotted Beauty's grandsire on top. You aren't going to find The Nut's dam in European Warmbloods unless a miracle has occurred, although Prince Palatine is the tail male line to Princequillo, Prince Bio, and Prince Chevalier, and you will find them.

I'm not sure that Hyperion is found all that often in SF pedigrees; I can't recall seeing him, but I haven't searched. If you do want to work with Khalex, it would be much harder. One thing about Khaled, though, is that he is out of the same mare as Emali, and Emali was the dam of Aberali (The Horse in the Grey Flannel Suit and Kathy Kusner's USET jumper). But Emali was by Umidwar and Aberali was by Abernant.

SueL
Oct. 12, 2010, 05:06 AM
I actually knew "Doris" - great producer and worked very well with Galoubet A. (And viney, it's a pity Carol is gone because you two would have had a blast on dissecting Tb marelines - but I digress)

I'm not worried about the French Trotter blood. It's so far back and frankly, Galoubet's dam was a very good jumper. No concern there.

I'd look to Holstein for this mare. Holsteiner lines work very well with Galoubet lines (*not* QDR, you want to add rideability not subtract it, LOL) Reece (Bayhawk) can give you better specific input than I, but I'm a fan of Campesino (grievously underused in this country) Corde lines in general will give you more shape to the jump (Galoubet gives scope and heart, but sometimes an unconventional jump (we've had two and love them) but Holst will tweak the style some)

Just a couple words of caution here. This is a good bloodline, but there's a nick going on here (Doris plus Galoubet worked very well) so you really want to concentrate good jumping blood on the sireside. You want to add in the following qualities:

Excellent rideability (but you still want the Galoubet tendency to give the rider the finger and go. LOL)

A modern sporthorse frame. Really important over today's courses, scope is not enough nor is technique. They have to be able to "switch modes" and rock back *fast*

You already have scope and heart so you are one step ahead.

Hope Reece and Nick will chime in here. She sounds like a nice one, congrats.

Sue

ponygirl
Oct. 12, 2010, 06:39 AM
anyone has any info on this TB damline? Doris Ragland was full sister to Albany who won Olympic gold with Leslie Burr Howard in 84 Olympics and was 1983 AGa horse of the year, he was a gelding. They bred Doris ragland to Galoubet which produced both Grand Jete and U Galouway....I have a granddaughter from this line and looking for a selle francais sire for her next breeding...any suggestions? I unfortuantely I don not konw my dam's motherline, but I am sure it was noteworthy considering who owned the stallions at the time....any help greatly appreciated...

What would one think of Galoubet on both top and bottom 3 generations back???

Is this mare named Heirloom?

ponygirl
Oct. 12, 2010, 06:43 AM
If it is Heirloom she's by Chardonnay and had a colt by Caretino which, last saw was pretty nice. IF you want to go French with her look at Far West. He's extremely rideable and throws quiet, leggy kids. Or go back to a Holsteiner since she's been bred that way before.

mbp
Oct. 12, 2010, 11:35 AM
If you go to a Holsteiner with some close up Cor de or linebred on Cor de you are indirectly hitting your Selle Francais desire & pulling in some Furioso (albeit not super close). If you get some Ramiro, IMO, that's that much the better bc I think he blends in well with lots of TB. So just for me, I'd look at something like Contender or maybe something that has even a bit more Cor de. For doubling up on Galoubet (are you thinking something like a Balou du Rouet?) maybe Yankee Lawyer will give you some insight.

Are there any conformation or rideabiilty issues or anything you've seen from progeny and crosses already that are going to impact your decision? If your mare isn't super "trotter" herself, I wouldn't worry about adding in a bit more, a few generations back.

vineyridge
Oct. 12, 2010, 12:01 PM
If the mare has Galoubet already, it can't be Heirloom. Might be Galoubaby's 1991 daughter. Her name is Footloose, and she's Holstein on top but without Corde. But since this per allbreed, it could well be wrong or incomplete.

Equsrider
Oct. 12, 2010, 12:13 PM
My Mare is Hannah, DNA typed to Galouway, born 1998,she was never registered:cry: although USEF records have her sire as Galouways ET twin Grand Jete, no DNA avaliable for him...

She has one foal on the ground that i bred, now 2 1/2
http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=401648531099&set=a.401648441099.180128.589261099
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=401648531099&set=a.401648441099.180128.589261099#!/photo.php?fbid=401648551099&set=a.401648441099.180128.589261099&pid=4108385&id=589261099
And bred back for a full sibling in 2011 to Cabalito ,Elite Hannoverian. I chose him for rideability and to improve neck and shoulder....
2 year olds pedigree and one in utero
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/calysto
I am a novice at breeding but trying to learn....at least I got the rideability factor right it seems....I would like to have her 3rd foal be VERY Jumper bred for the 3rd one...Sat next to a german at WEG and we discussed showjumper bloodlines for days, it was quite the education, and yes, he highly recommends the Holstiener lines mentioned above....
I was able to talk to a good friend of Carol Lush's here on coth before Carol passed and she gave me a wealth of info about the stallions but nothing on "Doris" so this has been very informative!!!Thank YOU thank you thank YOU!!
I will research your info and will be back I am sure with more questions!!!!:)

Equsrider
Oct. 12, 2010, 01:14 PM
Foals pedigree represents Hyperion on the sire side thru Cabalito to Hyperion from Bolero, Absatz, and Cardinal, and on the dam side thru Doris Ragland...Alot of TB blood in this 2 year olds pedigree...any new thoughts, or am I on the right track??

vineyridge
Oct. 12, 2010, 01:37 PM
Couple of things TBwise that the Cabilito cross gives you--
You added a double to Prince Palatine through Chevaliers Star, who is a ggdaughter of PP, so you have him top on top and through Doris Ragland. You also added a line to Umidwar through Bolero. Umidwar has done superlatively well in most WB breeding. And you have the 3/4 sibling of Grey Sovereign through Nimbus.

IMO, the Blandford/Hyperion X has been one of the best things ever for sporty TBs. Bolero has that in spades. So does Cardinal. They tie together through the mare Canterbury Pilgrim who was the dam of Chaucer, sire of Selene, and the sire's dam of Blandford. Chaucer was also the sire of scapa flow, so that ties in well with Nearco. And since Sickle was out of Selene, that ties in with the Native Dancer lines.

In terms of that, admittedly self held, opinion, the TBs in Cabilito's pedigree tie in very nicely with the ones in Doris Ragland. FWIW, Cardinal's tail female line is to simon's shoes, the dam of Dalmary, and through her, tail female to Thatch, sire of Prince Thatch.

Equsrider
Oct. 12, 2010, 04:34 PM
Guess I got lucky tying in those TB lines, cause I really had no idea...Just loved Cabalito and what he himself brought to the table...for my mare as far as conformation and rideablity goes...
You have been very helpful and I appreciate your time and information immensely!!! Thanks!

Allyn M
Oct. 13, 2010, 11:38 AM
I have a filly by Coconut Grove xx out of Footloose . Footloose' mare line is Galoubaby out of Doris Ragland . Footloose is by Merano . This is not a mare I bred but since I had bred twice to Coconut Grove xx trying to get a filly , I finally gave up and then out of the blue a lady called me and offered to sell me this filly ( She was still with her Dam ) and I purchased her. I wanted her to breed to Simsalabim and will do so next year.
I really feel fortunate to have this mare and am excited about this pairing.

Equsrider
Oct. 13, 2010, 02:04 PM
I sent you a PM

andy.smaga
Oct. 14, 2010, 02:48 PM
I don't know enough about your mare but from what I understand I think Kalaska de Semilly could be an option.
http://www.semilly.com/gb/kalaska-gb.html
Sire is the Famous SF Diamant de Semilly and mare, Normandy Night was very successful at Puissance, jumping many times a 2.25m wall; she is by the TB "Night and Day" (Vlney can give us his opinion)

vineyridge
Oct. 14, 2010, 03:10 PM
Re: Night and Day

SIF! Anytime you can bring in Sif, you're going to find good lines for sport.

She was the dam of Soleil Levant, Sicambre and the 2nd dam of Snob. Also second dam of Free Man and Sigebert.

Very, very superior TB broodmare. One to search for and treasure.

grayarabpony
Oct. 14, 2010, 03:27 PM
Night and Day was also the grandsire of Jus de Pomme.

JumpinBeans81
Oct. 14, 2010, 09:13 PM
Interesting mare!! Lucky you!

I had a mare bred by Carol Lush she was Galoubet x Minnie Do xx (U' Cloud's Gala) I bred her to Quidam Junior. Unfortunately, she ruptered her uterine artery at 9 mos in foal so I do not know what would have resuted. However, the motherline from Quidam Junior is Narcotique who produced nothing but international jumpers. and I believe her mother was the same...it is a VERY strong jumper family, and famous in France. I was not quite as concerned about rideability factors breeding to Junior as he himself had incredibly good rideability and was shown by both a pro and in the jr. jumpers simultaneously. That said, he needs the right type of mare. One with plenty of size and frame...he's 15.3 at best.

Do you have a conformation pic of your mare? How tall is she? What was she like to ride? Do you know what her jump is like? How do her offspring jump? What are your goals? What jumpers that are campaigning in the ring right now are you liking best?

If your mare has the right type of conformation, Wonderboy might be an interesting cross Darco/Voltaire/Ramiro...definitely jumper, lots of power, fantastic temperament and rideability...but he needs a blooded mare, and older type would nix that idea. He has some spectacular offspring in South America, and his owner, Ronald Zabala-Goetschel, is passionate and very enthusiastic about his horses--very easy to work with.

would love to see pics of your mare! :)

tucktaway
Oct. 15, 2010, 12:17 AM
Jump'n beans-- I had a colt out of your mare (by Magical)-- he was a sweetie!

JumpinBeans81
Oct. 15, 2010, 12:25 AM
REALLY!!! Oh! That makes my day! Do you still have him? Was that Frontier? I talked with Scott Stewart a couple of years ago at Devon, he sang praises about Frontier.

I loved this mare to pieces, and it absolutely broke my heart when she died. She was so healthy and vibrant...one of the most intelligent horses I have ever known. I miss her terribly. She has a daughter in California that did the GP's and they are now breeding her (2 offspring by Oh Star thus far)...I hope someday to convince her owner to let me do a custom foal.

Thank you for telling me about your boy!

vineyridge
Oct. 15, 2010, 12:27 AM
Is Wonderboy an event horse? Or am I thinking of someone else owned and ridden by the same guy?

JumpinBeans81
Oct. 15, 2010, 12:38 AM
You're thinking of Wiseguy :)

Ronald is an eventer from Ecuador...he was supposed to ride at WEG, but Wiseguy had a little inflammation in one of the ligaments...cannot recall which at the mo. Anyhow, Wonderboy is his jumper stallion. He competed in the PanAm Games with Wonderboy a few years ago. He's been concentrating so much on Wiseguy that Wonderboy has been put on the back burner for now.

He also has some incredible prospects that are still in South America and a stallion by Chester Z you would drop dead over, but alas, he's young yet and won't be in the States for another couple of years yet.

I've worked around Wonderboy quite a bit and can vouch for his temperament even with mares around him at the barn he is fine. I've ridden him around WEF in a busy arena and he was totally focused on his job. Puppy dog temperament. He throws it to his get as well. What is really impressive to me is that 8 out of 32 qualifiers for some big young jumper class in South America were by Wonderboy. All of them have an incredible hind end. He crosses best with a modern leggy mare, and has had good success crossing with sporthorse TB mares.

Equsrider
Oct. 15, 2010, 12:44 AM
Thank You, I think so too!!!I just happened to be in the right place and right right time to acquire her from her previous owner, there was just something about her that I couldn't walk away from.She was a hot headed nervous messed up wreck when I got her and injured to boot, and I had alot of people thinking me crazy that I wanted to bred her...this was before I knew her breeding!But once her 1st foal hit the ground all the nay-sayers asked me how I knew???Still don't know but I've been lucky that way alot with my horses, can't afford the expensive ones...so I'm working on breeding my own...Who knew this girl had such an interesting lineage.....so yes lucky me!!!:)

I will look up Wonderboy, thanks!

SueL
Oct. 15, 2010, 01:01 AM
REALLY!!! Oh! That makes my day! Do you still have him? Was that Frontier? I talked with Scott Stewart a couple of years ago at Devon, he sang praises about Frontier.

I loved this mare to pieces, and it absolutely broke my heart when she died. She was so healthy and vibrant...one of the most intelligent horses I have ever known. I miss her terribly. She has a daughter in California that did the GP's and they are now breeding her (2 offspring by Oh Star thus far)...I hope someday to convince her owner to let me do a custom foal.

Thank you for telling me about your boy!

Wasn't Frontier by Merano (sire of Magical)? He had a great career. Wonderful horse.

Did you have Ezzie? (U Clouds Gala) She was a terrific mare, we had a grandson out of the mare in California. He was a freak jumper, OMG. And an absolutely sweet horse (but a real tendency to roll in the mud. LOL)

We have a Galoubet grandson here but he is Irish-bred (by Touchdown out of a Cruising mare) Galoubet works (heart and scope) but you want to add in bit of style to the jump. Cruising helped with our gelding, but Andy's suggestion is good, if you want to stay SF. I personally like some Holsteiner blood, they throw excellent style.

Ezzie was a treasure. Our former vet just *loved* her. Really sweet horse.

No one used Tb mare lines better than Carol Lush. No one. And that's that. <grin>

Sue

Equsrider
Oct. 15, 2010, 01:06 AM
did you get the pictures I sent? And yes still looking at those Holstieners....I am now on the search and looking at all these lovely stallions, it is Crazy...I want one from all:eek:!!!LOL!! Good thing I'm starting early!!

JumpinBeans81
Oct. 15, 2010, 01:57 AM
Yes! Ezzie...the girl I got her from called her Gala, so that is what I called her. You're rigth Frontier is by Merano. :) Such a small world this is isn't it!?

Wow Touchdown with Cruising...that must be one sensitive ride!!! Powerful though! I LOVE Galoubet in a pedigree, they have something so very special about them, almost human. I hope Carol and Ezzie met again at Rainbow Bridge and that she is raising my Quidam Jr foal to jump rainbows and fall back to earth in my pastures! She was a master and how she acquired all of those incredible TB mares I wish I knew! She was ahead of her time for sure! I'd love to know where Footloose is! (anyone?) The video of that mare was nothing short of AWESOME. I don't believe I have ever seen such a powerful moving mare.

Any chance you can get Mr.Blue semen? I bet that would be a nice cross.

Cardento maybe?

tucktaway
Oct. 15, 2010, 11:53 AM
I didn't have Frontier. Here's a couple of pics of the one I had- he's 3 here. (If they work!!) Sold locally, he is much loved :)
PM if you want more..

Equsrider
Oct. 16, 2010, 10:37 PM
This is a young up and comming stallion by Candillo Z,
he looks interesting to me,,, others want to chime in on the match with my mare Hannah???

I wrote down that he is BWP, stam 890, but has Holsteiner "C" line blood.