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CelticRiverDance
Oct. 4, 2010, 01:20 AM
Catherine Haddad and Winyamaro....WOW! They were great to watch. What a beautiful ride. It was wonderful to see such a happy, pleasant ride with a bond between horse and rider that was so obvious. They did a great job and won the class. :winkgrin:

With Winyamaro's coloring, Catherine's brown top hat, jacket and tack was stunning. Simply marvelous!!!!!

psychurmine
Oct. 4, 2010, 08:27 AM
Catherine Haddad and Winyamaro....WOW! They were great to watch. What a beautiful ride. It was wonderful to see such a happy, pleasant ride with a bond between horse and rider that was so obvious. They did a great job and won the class. :winkgrin:

With Winyamaro's coloring, Catherine's brown top hat, jacket and tack was stunning. Simply marvelous!!!!!

well, I agree with the color of her coat and top hat being really marvelous. Odd but I really liked the copper color and how it blended with the horse's coat.

The music (Pink) was wonderful. Gotta love Pink.

But the riding was effortful. Aids far from invisible. I was standing head on when she was preforming her tempis and her legs were slapping like dead fish on his sides. I was able to see 6" (no exaggeration) of air betweeen her lower leg and the horse.

The horse's neck was stuck and short, transitions labored, and his mouth was open the entire time when I was close enough (at the warm up) to see.
I'm not sure what the deal was with her new fashion--doofy bowl cut open forelock--is that the new style in Europe?

Over all I think everyone expected her to come to the US and WOW the judges therefore her winning scores were decided well in advance.

I thought Joe Sandven and Danielle Gallagher had far superior rides with very correct and steady movements and music equally as lovely. There horses were just not as flashy as Winyamaro.

Peace
Oct. 4, 2010, 09:15 AM
well, I agree with the color of her coat and top hat being really marvelous. Odd but I really liked the copper color and how it blended with the horse's coat.

The music (Pink) was wonderful. Gotta love Pink.

But the riding was effortful. Aids far from invisible. I was standing head on when she was preforming her tempis and her legs were slapping like dead fish on his sides. I was able to see 6" (no exaggeration) of air betweeen her lower leg and the horse.

The horse's neck was stuck and short, transitions labored, and his mouth was open the entire time when I was close enough (at the warm up) to see.
I'm not sure what the deal was with her new fashion--doofy bowl cut open forelock--is that the new style in Europe?

Over all I think everyone expected her to come to the US and WOW the judges therefore her winning scores were decided well in advance.

I thought Joe Sandven and Danielle Gallagher had far superior rides with very correct and steady movements and music equally as lovely. There horses were just not as flashy as Winyamaro.


:lol::lol::lol:.. Give me a break! Yes her aides are more visable then most but when I was at weg I saw several riders that did the same thing in the changes. I do think she would score even higher if she was less obvious about her aides but then again how many GP horses has she trained and he's only 10 years old still learning. I've watched several videos of the pair and his mouth has NEVER been open.. Did you read Mr. Rockwell's comments about his forlock? If not read dressage daily because he LOVED it. snarky about his forelock:rolleyes:

Tasker
Oct. 4, 2010, 09:31 AM
I agree with the OP! It was a great ride and just FUN! Loved it from the music, the clothes and just the joy of the pair...it was a treat to watch! :yes:

As for her aids being more visible - every horse is an individual and some do not respond/react/listen if the aids are so subtle. Others have to have the rider be more still...each combination of horse and rider have to work out a dialogue that works for them. *shrugs* If I thought I could do it better, I'd be brave enough to criticize...

Plantagenet
Oct. 4, 2010, 09:44 AM
Rachmaninoff (Joe Sandven's horse) is not a hot horse, so it's not about having to be still on him.

However, 10 yo is a really young GP horse and Catherine's done a wonderful job with him.

judybigredpony
Oct. 4, 2010, 09:44 AM
Did anyone else notice she had to drop her Bridle after bit check for excessively tight noseband.

After apparently being cautioned in an earlier test for same thing??

Peace
Oct. 4, 2010, 09:55 AM
Anyone had a video of Joe's ride? Here's one from a year ago
http://www.hoofclix.com/FENCE/2009-Dancing-Under-the-Stars/Video-by-Mark/9531303_JqNX8/1/640898292_WD9Vi#640898292_WD9Vi-A-LB

Lovely horse but piaffe and passage just not there would love to see his test. Loved this horses extended trot.

Peace
Oct. 4, 2010, 09:58 AM
Did anyone else notice she had to drop her Bridle after bit check for excessively tight noseband.

After apparently being cautioned in an earlier test for same thing??

I think this is going to become an issue especially in Europe.

psychurmine
Oct. 4, 2010, 12:12 PM
Did anyone else notice she had to drop her Bridle after bit check for excessively tight noseband.

After apparently being cautioned in an earlier test for same thing??

The only reason an auditor might not have noticed the mouth is because the horse is white and pink in the nose, hence the gums/tongue blends in. I should have taken a picture. It wasn't terrible, but it looked tense.

Also, Rockwell may have liked the odd forelock it but I didn't. I thought it looked ridiculous and distracted me from the over all picture.
Does she do this in Europe as well? It is traditional to have only the stallions with unbraided forelock...and then a natural forelock at that. Not a flat bowl cut on a flaxen mane. Holly cow.

The test was much better than her GP the day before, but still, there were even better tests that night. Politics.

Alpha Mare
Oct. 4, 2010, 12:24 PM
I very much enjoyed the Freestyle including a few of the others we'd seen last year that were improved and even more lovely this year. I felt Winyamaro was better than Rachmaninoff in this performance, but both were super. It doesn't have to be politics for one to place over the other.

ridgeback
Oct. 4, 2010, 01:08 PM
The only reason an auditor might not have noticed the mouth is because the horse is white and pink in the nose, hence the gums/tongue blends in. I should have taken a picture. It wasn't terrible, but it looked tense.

Also, Rockwell may have liked the odd forelock it but I didn't. I thought it looked ridiculous and distracted me from the over all picture.
Does she do this in Europe as well? It is traditional to have only the stallions with unbraided forelock...and then a natural forelock at that. Not a flat bowl cut on a flaxen mane. Holly cow.

The test was much better than her GP the day before, but still, there were even better tests that night. Politics.

Maybe your eye is not very educated.. I saw the video Peace put up from a year ago and that horse had no passage and piaffe. Kinda sounds a bit personal with having such an issue about his forelock...It's personal preference no biggie. I would love to see videos of the other rides but I highly doubt they were technically as difficult or their horses were of international caliber. Anyone have videos?

Marydell
Oct. 4, 2010, 04:57 PM
Although I have not seen Joe's ride at Devon, I can tell you that a year ago, Rocky had some issues come up and it has taken some time to resolve them. He is a much better horse now than even 6 months ago.
I have seen this pair compete a great deal as they are local to me and Don Principe usually is at the same venues.
You can be sure that judging does have taste(music preference) involved at this level of freestyle and that does play some factor in placings.

BetterOffRed
Oct. 4, 2010, 05:13 PM
But the riding was effortful. Aids far from invisible. I was standing head on when she was preforming her tempis and her legs were slapping like dead fish on his sides. I was able to see 6" (no exaggeration) of air betweeen her lower leg and the horse.

The horse's neck was stuck and short, transitions labored, and his mouth was open the entire time when I was close enough (at the warm up) to see.
I'm not sure what the deal was with her new fashion--doofy bowl cut open forelock--is that the new style in Europe?

Harsh, aren't we?!?!?

I believe that this is the first FULL year of W doing Grand Prix. I would expect that it will take more than 1 year for a horse to become comfortable in GP, the movements, the electricity of a big atmosphere like Devon.

And W isn't the only one that has an unbraided forelock worn loose- Tina Konyot does the same with Calecto V. Sheesh.... how dare people show any personality in the sandbox.

oldenmare
Oct. 4, 2010, 07:06 PM
Well, I missed her ride in the freestyle portion but saw the GP the night before. Catherine did a fabulous job on W - I had not seen her ride in person before but what impressed me most was the amount of time she spent warming the horse up - and she took him out and rode him a few hours before her ride as well.

It is apparent that he is "green" to GP, which does involve a more actively engaged rider.

After watching ALL of the GP rides, I have to saw that she clearly won the Friday night competition - her aids may have been stronger, but her horse was much more fluid throughout the test. The P&P were clearly presented - not so much in other rides.

I did not see her freestyle but I did see Rach.'s. His ride seem somewhat more labored in the P&P than many I watched. Just not as fluid - especially when compared to W's performance.

Of course - the beautiful thing is that when you pay for an opinion (which is all a dressage test really boils down to), then that's what you get. And clearly, not all opinions are the same.

DownYonder
Oct. 4, 2010, 08:04 PM
And W isn't the only one that has an unbraided forelock worn loose- Tina Konyot does the same with Calecto V. [/I]

As someone already mentioned, unbraided forelocks are usually reserved for stallions - so okay for Calecto V.

Very untraditional for a gelding to have an unbraided forelock in the show ring, but if CH was wearing a brown top hat and coat, she was bucking tradition anyway.

horsemommy
Oct. 4, 2010, 08:15 PM
well I'll tell you what, I personally bit checked this lady and altho her performance was winning it was far from effortless on her horses' part. Her noseband was so tight I couldn't get a hair between her noseband and her bridle! I truely hope that this is NOT going to be the "norm" in the future.
I do know that the FEI stewart said this was an ongoing problem in Europe and FEI is looking at the rules to change this due to riders figuring out a way to get around it.
Don't get me wrong, W is a phenomenal horse and has such potential but he's 10! He's got YEARS ahead of him. Just think what he'll be able to do in the future if given the freedom to breath!
I must say not one of the other rider had a tight noseband and they were so pleasant coming out of the arena! Yes~ there were a few "hot" horses but I'd rather deal with that then one who may be hurting and can't breath!

CelticRiverDance
Oct. 4, 2010, 08:24 PM
As I stated initially.....it was just beautiful to watch. Made me smile. I was sitting in a box on the back side of the arena near the back entrance to the show grounds. I realize that views are different depending on where you are watching from, but that ride got a standing ovation soooooo I know I'm not the only one who liked it. :yes: After all, even the judges liked it.:lol:

I also like seeing a bit of variety. The loose forlock was fine with me. Something different right along with the brown outfit and tack. Winyamaro just seemed so happy to be out there and for a young horse, he was very calm. Even when the audience starting clapping and yelling after the final halt.:winkgrin:

When Debbie McDonald rode Brentina in Las Vegas to her Motown Music Freestyle, it was an unbelievable moment. She broke with tradition and used lyrics in her music and it brought the house to their feet. Talk about an electrifying performance. Sometimes you just need to break out of the box. Now we are hearing more and more freestyles with lyrics in them and I love it.

I also feel that breaking out of the stiff impression the public has of dressage will make this sport more approachable to the general public. It gives them something more approachable that they can relate to. It makes it fun!

Since the US hosting of top equestrian sports in Las Vegas, it seems that the US is finally embracing our sport. When have we ever had 6 hours of equestrian sports telecasted on a major TV network.

We've come a long way baby and I for one don't want to be put back in the black and white box.

Plantagenet
Oct. 5, 2010, 06:43 AM
well I'll tell you what, I personally bit checked this lady and altho her performance was winning it was far from effortless on her horses' part. Her noseband was so tight I couldn't get a hair between her noseband and her bridle! I truely hope that this is NOT going to be the "norm" in the future.
I do know that the FEI stewart said this was an ongoing problem in Europe and FEI is looking at the rules to change this due to riders figuring out a way to get around it.
Don't get me wrong, W is a phenomenal horse and has such potential but he's 10! He's got YEARS ahead of him. Just think what he'll be able to do in the future if given the freedom to breath!
I must say not one of the other rider had a tight noseband and they were so pleasant coming out of the arena! Yes~ there were a few "hot" horses but I'd rather deal with that then one who may be hurting and can't breath!

sorry gang, but there is no excuse for being unkind to volunteers...

Peace
Oct. 5, 2010, 09:06 AM
sorry gang, but there is no excuse for being unkind to volunteers...

Hmmm who said anyone was rude?

lcw579
Oct. 5, 2010, 09:47 AM
I'm with CelticRiverDance and Tasker - it was a pleasure to watch the pair. Everyone in our box thought his forelock was charming. Of course what do we know, being mostly eventers and fox hunters, right? ;) However, having been taught to ride by someone who valued dressage as the basis of all good riding even a boob like me seemed to be able to recognize the winning ride when I saw it.

purplnurpl
Oct. 5, 2010, 10:42 AM
I came up from Texas to go with my friend who lives in NJ. Her group had the winning YR and JR. It was sooo much fun!!

Concerning the Freestyle-
But I have to say, I expected a bit more from a WEG alternate.

That's just fine and dandy if the horse has only been doing GP for a year...but to be an alternate for the US and to come over from Germany with so much hype? I too thought there were other riders that had a better showing.
Her music was the best though...and that is a big chunk of the freestyle scoring.

The freestyle was a lot better than her GP the day before...

very cute horse.

peace out, I have a plane to catch. : )

Peace
Oct. 5, 2010, 11:02 AM
Guessing you don't know what you're looking at..LOL Haddad should have been on the team...PERIOD

netg
Oct. 5, 2010, 11:20 AM
I think anyone so down on Catherine should read her blog on this site. (Or anyone not down on her who hasn't read it... it's good reading!)

Her legs move more than other riders? That's by design. She doesn't have thigh blocks because the school of riding in which she was taught was all about using the seat, and allowing more movement of the legs. Thus a new style of saddle designed specifically for her. She explains it more clearly and with far more knowledge than I can in her blog.

Horse takes a lot of work? Over and over again Catherine discusses the many half halts she has to do, and how she's working on improving W's self-carriage.

Overhyped just because she rides in Germany? Catherine came in and said they were ranked 12th (I think? May not be the right number, but the right idea) and therefore had no expectation to be sticking around as the reserve for the WEG team.

I love watching this pair. They're not perfect, and Catherine doesn't profess that either of them are. I expect to see mistakes that even my uneducated eye can see. But a lot of the comments on here which are intended as criticism are true - and are things Catherine herself puts out there in her blog as the truth and things to work on.

Personally, I love the forelock. I don't love that the noseband was tight. And I hope Catherine was nice to the volunteer, and that the volunteer was nice to her as well - but I have no knowledge of either side of that situation.

Peace
Oct. 5, 2010, 11:50 AM
I'm sure she was caught off guard by the volunteer as this has never been an issue in Europe. If she was snarky that probably was the reason...just guessing

oldenmare
Oct. 5, 2010, 03:27 PM
Thank you so very much to the VERY kind person who sent me a video link for Catherine's freestyle.

I thought it was incredible - there is a definite matching of music to horse that is not often seen even at this level; the music is strong and forward, not trite and staid; and let's keep in mind that this was not the original horse to be the alternate.... he's a 10 yr old.

And how many of the overly critical are actually out there showing at this level, anyway?

All in all - a most enjoyable ride and the type that draws in more of an audience because of its artistry. Wunderbar.

meupatdoes
Oct. 5, 2010, 06:20 PM
I think it's pretty depressing that you can come with your horse across an ocean to (almost) represent your country and then when you win at Devon as your backup show some anonymous person will set about tearing you down in the nasiest manner they can manage, complete with likening your legs to "dead fish" and taking shots at your horse's hair.


Really depressing, and imo unsportsmanly.

Especially considering she has a blog here.
If you have something to say grow a pair and post your same comment there in the second person, not here in the third.

What a low way to behave.

Peace
Oct. 5, 2010, 06:30 PM
I think it's pretty depressing that you can come with your horse across an ocean to (almost) represent your country and then when you win at Devon as your backup show some anonymous person will set about tearing you down in the nasiest manner they can manage, complete with likening your legs to "dead fish" and taking shots at your horse's hair.


Really depressing, and imo unsportsmanly.

Especially considering she has a blog here.
If you have something to say grow a pair and post your same comment there in the second person, not here in the third.

What a low way to behave.

Amen!! She also had to pay her way here and everything was on her dime until she made the team. Which means she had to fly him here pay all her bills and hers as well as being away from her business for 2 1/2 months. Some are just mean:(

purplnurpl
Oct. 5, 2010, 08:26 PM
Thank you so very much to the VERY kind person who sent me a video link for Catherine's freestyle.



Can you post it here so everyone can see it?
thanks!

Also, I didn't realize that the big chestnut wasn't the alternate horse. Why did she fly him over if he was not needed? Also, where was the alternate horse? Was he not at Devon?

Also, in some defense of the same old comment that always shows up in these threads...
One does not need to be actively showing PSG, I, or GP to understand the principles. Many spend their lives schooling the movements and tests--and theory.

meupatdoes
Oct. 5, 2010, 08:35 PM
Also, in some defense of the same old comment that always shows up in these threads...
One does not need to be actively showing PSG, I, or GP to understand the principles. Many spend their lives schooling the movements and tests--and theory.

I think that schooling the movements and theory vs. ripping other people apart on the internet are two entirely different pursuits.

Sportsmanship is a part of it too.

joiedevie99
Oct. 5, 2010, 08:40 PM
Can you post it here so everyone can see it?
thanks!

Also, I didn't realize that the big chestnut wasn't the alternate horse. Why did she fly him over if he was not needed? Also, where was the alternate horse? Was he not at Devon?

Also, in some defense of the same old comment that always shows up in these threads...
One does not need to be actively showing PSG, I, or GP to understand the principles. Many spend their lives schooling the movements and tests--and theory.

Winyamaro (the chestnut Catherine rode at Devon) was the alternate for WEG. Catherine's other horse (Cadillac) was ranked higher coming into the trials, but she elected to keep him home because he was coming back into work and not ready. Winyamaro was qualified for the trials as well, just not as high.

He stayed in Kentucky until the deadline to sub in a reserve horse passed, then shipped back up north.

ETA: I didn't see their ride at Devon, but I did see them in person at the trials and thought she was doing a fabulous job with him. She doesn't claim that he's a finished GP horse- just a baby GP horse on his way up and I think he's going to be awesome.

irishequestrian29
Oct. 5, 2010, 09:00 PM
Well I personally thought they were a great pair. I loved the music, her,outfit, the horse, it was all great! I didn't know about the noseband issue, which kind of makes me sad.

I was sitting right in front of Joe's parents and sister, and they were sooo excited to watch him ride. They were too cute! they said they aren't horse people so I thought it was great they were all their to support him. He did a lovely job too!

NCRider
Oct. 5, 2010, 11:51 PM
Assuming the real goal is London 2012, I think she was very smart for bringing him over, even though she never expected to make the team. He definitely got himself noticed and the important folks will be watching him for the next couple of years more closely than they would have if she hadn't brought him. I think in the end it will have been worth it even though she didn't get to compete at WEG. He's an attention grabber for sure and he'll have 2 more years of experience by then.

purplnurpl
Oct. 6, 2010, 04:27 PM
I very much enjoyed the Freestyle including a few of the others we'd seen last year that were improved and even more lovely this year. I felt Winyamaro was better than Rachmaninoff in this performance, but both were super. It doesn't have to be politics for one to place over the other.


I also really really liked the Canadian rider that used Thomas Crown Affair music.

Who was that?

as for Catherine and Win--eating the bills is normal. The equine industry is just unfair that way. There is a good thread on the Eventing forum about the costs of international and team competition right now. Boyd Martin had a thing or two to say about how the US dishes out money...

As for my opinionon the DAD showig, I'll stick to it. Fun to see the horse for the first time but I don't think he was so much greater than some of the other riders. The good GP horses make the hair on my neck stand up and I usually end up crying (ya, I'm a dork like that) by the end of the test. They were not quite there yet for me. I do hope she keeps that freestyle for future competitions though--it was fun. Especially if everyone predicts her being on the team in 2012.

LadyGodiva
Oct. 6, 2010, 08:05 PM
Her legs move more than other riders? That's by design. She doesn't have thigh blocks because the school of riding in which she was taught was all about using the seat, and allowing more movement of the legs. Thus a new style of saddle designed specifically for her. She explains it more clearly and with far more knowledge than I can in her blog.

Thanks for bringing up this point. She talks about it in her lectures on dressagetrainingonline.com. I subscribed to the site two years ago when my horse was injured and I wasn't getting to ride. Catherine's videos were the BEST, I watched them all and learned so much. Her style of looseness in the saddle is really interesting.

It wasn't until about two minutes into her freestyle last weekend that I looked up at the scoreboard to see who the fabulous rider was. I was so psyched to read her name! I couldn't believe I was getting to see her ride in the flesh. I loved the brown jacket and top hat. Mmmm mm marvelous.

XHalt
Oct. 6, 2010, 08:30 PM
I think it's pretty depressing that you can come with your horse across an ocean to (almost) represent your country and then when you win at Devon as your backup show some anonymous person will set about tearing you down in the nasiest manner they can manage, complete with likening your legs to "dead fish" and taking shots at your horse's hair.


Really depressing, and imo unsportsmanly.

Especially considering she has a blog here.
If you have something to say grow a pair and post your same comment there in the second person, not here in the third.

What a low way to behave.

Well said!

psychurmine
Oct. 7, 2010, 02:03 PM
Her legs move more than other riders? That's by design. She doesn't have thigh blocks because the school of riding in which she was taught was all about using the seat, and allowing more movement of the legs. Thus a new style of saddle designed specifically for her. She explains it more clearly and with far more knowledge than I can in her blog.





Wow, I can't believe anyone would buy into this. What a load.

and so that I'm not just throwing out a random opinion.
from WIKIPEDIA:
Its fundamental purpose is to develop a horse's gymnastic development, so that it can smoothly respond to a skilled rider's minimal aids by performing the requested movement while remaining relaxed and appearing effortless.

Why would anyone design a saddle to specifically show MORE movement?
And further more, the use of throwing one's legs about and the use of seat are very different.
Many riders use saddles with very small or no blocks due to personal preference...

Am I really the only one to think, "hmmm, that is odd..."? And all along I have been working to keep my aids quiet and as invisible as possible?!

netg
Oct. 7, 2010, 03:54 PM
Wow, I can't believe anyone would buy into this. What a load.

and so that I'm not just throwing out a random opinion.
from WIKIPEDIA:
Its fundamental purpose is to develop a horse's gymnastic development, so that it can smoothly respond to a skilled rider's minimal aids by performing the requested movement while remaining relaxed and appearing effortless.

Why would anyone design a saddle to specifically show MORE movement?
And further more, the use of throwing one's legs about and the use of seat are very different.
Many riders use saddles with very small or no blocks due to personal preference...

Am I really the only one to think, "hmmm, that is odd..."? And all along I have been working to keep my aids quiet and as invisible as possible?!

Who are you and what's your vendetta about?


Go read her blog, as you clearly are going to twist everything anyone says here for your own nasty purposes. Maybe you'll learn something. Seems as if you need to.

Peace
Oct. 7, 2010, 04:03 PM
Although Catherine has been very successful I do think she should make her aides less noticable. Michele Gibson rides in the same saddle and she's not as noticable as Catherine... I watched the other rides and Psychurmine if you really believe Joe or anyone else for that matter should have beat W well I'm not so sure you know what you are looking at. Joe's horse is lovely but not at the level of W. Maybe you shouldn't rely on wikipedia for your knowledge?? Just a suggestion. I can appreciate you wanting her aides quiter but clearly she has won enough internationally and for you to post like you have it looks a little silly.

netg
Oct. 7, 2010, 04:16 PM
Although Catherine has been very successful I do think she should make her aides less noticable. Michele Gibson rides in the same saddle and she's not as noticable as Catherine...

That aspect of it - I think Catherine has made it clear her aides need to lessen, and she's working on self carriage/lightness/responsiveness with him so I imagine that will change as she works him more and he keeps learning. Her aides are a lot more subtle in the rides I've seen of her on Cadillac. So I agree with you, based upon Catherine's own words.

It was more the legs *moving* that I was responding to with the saddle comments - relaxation, lack of thigh blocks to keep her in place, reliance on her seat and balance, not her legs to keep her in place, and a large moving horse lead to legs swinging/moving quite a bit besides when she's cueing.

Peace
Oct. 7, 2010, 04:41 PM
That aspect of it - I think Catherine has made it clear her aides need to lessen, and she's working on self carriage/lightness/responsiveness with him so I imagine that will change as she works him more and he keeps learning. Her aides are a lot more subtle in the rides I've seen of her on Cadillac. So I agree with you, based upon Catherine's own words.

It was more the legs *moving* that I was responding to with the saddle comments - relaxation, lack of thigh blocks to keep her in place, reliance on her seat and balance, not her legs to keep her in place, and a large moving horse lead to legs swinging/moving quite a bit besides when she's cueing.


I feel she needs to quiet her aids on all three horses. I think she's great but I do think it is distracting and I think it would ad to her score if she was more subtle. Michele isn't as obvious.

netg
Oct. 7, 2010, 04:55 PM
I feel she needs to quiet her aids on all three horses. I think she's great but I do think it is distracting and I think it would ad to her score if she was more subtle. Michele isn't as obvious.

You may be right. I don't think I know enough to give an opinion on that yet. Coming from an eq background I think EVERYONE cues too obviously, and am trying to retrain myself to believe otherwise. :)

Plantagenet
Oct. 8, 2010, 07:56 AM
Although Catherine has been very successful I do think she should make her aides less noticable. Michele Gibson rides in the same saddle and she's not as noticable as Catherine... I watched the other rides and Psychurmine if you really believe Joe or anyone else for that matter should have beat W well I'm not so sure you know what you are looking at. Joe's horse is lovely but not at the level of W. Maybe you shouldn't rely on wikipedia for your knowledge?? Just a suggestion. I can appreciate you wanting her aides quiter but clearly she has won enough internationally and for you to post like you have it looks a little silly.

Ah grasshopper, be careful making opinions on limited information...

we saw the horses at one show. one weekend does not a career make.

my problems with W are that he doesn't yet sit in the piaffe-he used to just bounce his butt and it has def. improved. I thought his piaffe in the freestyle was his best yet. In the GP, he didn't take the weight behind in the ctr pir and just flung himself around. That tells me he's still building the strength to carry himself. Totally reasonable for a 10 yo GP horse.

He is also very forward but doesn't appear very happy to me (I can't believe I'm talking about 'happy horse'...) perhaps that what she feels like she needs to do with him right now. when I watched him in the warm up, it looked like he had a muffin top around his cavesson and was trying to open his mouth against it. it looked like she had to really demand submission from him.

please understand, I think GP is HARD. I have a great deal of respect for CH. she seems to be a truth teller and has worked diligently. she's been willing to put herself on the line to get to the US. you go girl!

that being said, I also believe Rachmaninoff will continue to develop into a better GP horse than W. but that's just MHO. only time will tell who's right.

psychurmine
Oct. 8, 2010, 09:00 AM
I don't think I know enough to give an opinion on that yet. Coming from an eq background I think EVERYONE cues too obviously, and am trying to retrain myself to believe otherwise. :)

NOOOOO! DON'T change your way of thinking!
One of the toughest aspects of dressage is subtlety.




Maybe you shouldn't rely on wikipedia for your knowledge?? Just a suggestion. I can appreciate you wanting her aides quiter but clearly she has won enough internationally and for you to post like you have it looks a little silly.

hmmm...I guess Wikipedia and every other traditional dressage trainer is wrong then. I should go burn all of my books because they have evidently led me astray. Now my day is ruined and I feel cheated.
I never once stated that I had won anything internationally. Lets not throw out accusations now...

ec412
Oct. 8, 2010, 09:12 AM
LOVED the freestyle!!!!!!!! I really like the brown coat with W's coloring, what a beautiful pair.

I did not get to see the freestyle live, but was there for the GP the night before. Interesting comments about happy horse, since that was one of my thoughts while watching the warmup and the ride on Friday. It appeared to me that he had fun doing his job, and they both seem to enjoy what they are doing as Catherine was smiling throughout her warmup.

Catherine's blog is super! It gives alot of insight into her training, W's personality and continued development.

Peace
Oct. 8, 2010, 09:22 AM
Ah grasshopper, be careful making opinions on limited information...

we saw the horses at one show. one weekend does not a career make.

my problems with W are that he doesn't yet sit in the piaffe-he used to just bounce his butt and it has def. improved. I thought his piaffe in the freestyle was his best yet. In the GP, he didn't take the weight behind in the ctr pir and just flung himself around. That tells me he's still building the strength to carry himself. Totally reasonable for a 10 yo GP horse.

He is also very forward but doesn't appear very happy to me (I can't believe I'm talking about 'happy horse'...) perhaps that what she feels like she needs to do with him right now. when I watched him in the warm up, it looked like he had a muffin top around his cavesson and was trying to open his mouth against it. it looked like she had to really demand submission from him.

please understand, I think GP is HARD. I have a great deal of respect for CH. she seems to be a truth teller and has worked diligently. she's been willing to put herself on the line to get to the US. you go girl!

that being said, I also believe Rachmaninoff will continue to develop into a better GP horse than W. but that's just MHO. only time will tell who's right.

I'm thinking you are the grasshopper here:) I've seen plenty of videos of W. I never said Rachmaninoff won't develop into a great gp horse I said he's not at the same level now.(explaining why W clearly beat him in the freestyle)

Peace
Oct. 8, 2010, 09:25 AM
LOVED the freestyle!!!!!!!! I really like the brown coat with W's coloring, what a beautiful pair.

I did not get to see the freestyle live, but was there for the GP the night before. Interesting comments about happy horse, since that was one of my thoughts while watching the warmup and the ride on Friday. It appeared to me that he had fun doing his job, and they both seem to enjoy what they are doing as Catherine was smiling throughout her warmup.

Catherine's blog is super! It gives alot of insight into her training, W's personality and continued development.

Thanks ec412 I think W looks very happy...He's young and only time will tell but these wins were deserved.

Peace
Oct. 8, 2010, 09:33 AM
NOOOOO! DON'T change your way of thinking!
One of the toughest aspects of dressage is subtlety.




hmmm...I guess Wikipedia and every other traditional dressage trainer is wrong then. I should go burn all of my books because they have evidently led me astray. Now my day is ruined and I feel cheated.
I never once stated that I had won anything internationally. Lets not throw out accusations now...

Then maybe next time use your traditional dressage books to quote from.. and from those books you should understand why W beat Joe's horse this time around. Like I said he's a lovely horse and who knows what the future holds for eitiher one of them.

ridgeback
Oct. 8, 2010, 09:54 AM
W rocks!!! I personally think W is conformationally a little high in the rear so I don't think he will sit in the piaffe like you would expect him to. Cadillac really sits but I think W's piaffe is really developing and won't hurt him in the long run...but what do I know:)

W had better passage,transitions, fly changes etc. IMHO

Plantagenet
Oct. 8, 2010, 11:34 AM
W rocks!!! I personally think W is conformationally a little high in the rear so I don't think he will sit in the piaffe like you would expect him to. Cadillac really sits but I think W's piaffe is really developing and won't hurt him in the long run...but what do I know:)

W had better passage,transitions, fly changes etc. IMHO

I agree

CapitolDesign
Oct. 8, 2010, 12:05 PM
I had the lucky opportunity to watch the entire GP freestyle and only want to throw in my two cents:

For those unable to go to WEG, I believe that Saturday night at Devon ended up being much more impressive and exciting then people were suggesting it might be. What a lovely surprise to have the team alternate travel hundreds of miles to compete in the GP. I consider myself fortunate to have witnessed a competition where the only thing we are picking at is braiding a forelock, who said what about who and possibly over-active leg aids. Lovely music and rides by all!

DressageOP
Oct. 22, 2010, 07:23 PM
"Rachmaninoff (Joe Sandven's horse) is not a hot horse, so it's not about having to be still on him." This is not quite accurate. Rocky bolted at Lamplight and Joe could not stop him. Rocky was quite ready to spook with Devon being his first time in front of a large and appreciative audience. Those two have an incredibly close relationship which makes Rocky appear laid back because of his trust in Joe. Also inaccurate is the statement that Rocky does not have a strong piaffe and passage. They have worked on the "P's" since last year. Rocky is now a piaffe machine with smooth transitions into the passage.
As was said, there were some issues last year that slowed down the development of this horse. But he is well on track now.

From what I saw, the scoring was fair. CH had an innovative appearance and a "feel good" performance. JS had a very classical Kur that was equally as moving. Both had errors, but both were brilliant. It's like comparing a rock concert and a ballet. Both were well choreographed and beautiful, just very different.

happyhorsegirl
Oct. 24, 2010, 08:03 PM
I loved Joe and Rachmaninoff's freestyle. I thought it was very sophisticated and elegant, beautifully and subtlely ridden. Gorgeous music, too. That was the one ride of the night that really moved me.

Peace
Oct. 25, 2010, 08:09 AM
"Rachmaninoff (Joe Sandven's horse) is not a hot horse, so it's not about having to be still on him." This is not quite accurate. Rocky bolted at Lamplight and Joe could not stop him. Rocky was quite ready to spook with Devon being his first time in front of a large and appreciative audience. Those two have an incredibly close relationship which makes Rocky appear laid back because of his trust in Joe. Also inaccurate is the statement that Rocky does not have a strong piaffe and passage. They have worked on the "P's" since last year. Rocky is now a piaffe machine with smooth transitions into the passage.
As was said, there were some issues last year that slowed down the development of this horse. But he is well on track now.

From what I saw, the scoring was fair. CH had an innovative appearance and a "feel good" performance. JS had a very classical Kur that was equally as moving. Both had errors, but both were brilliant. It's like comparing a rock concert and a ballet. Both were well choreographed and beautiful, just very different.

Will have to agree to disagree on the piaffe still much to work on.

CFFarm
Oct. 25, 2010, 12:10 PM
Let me say I was not there. Haven't seen CH ride and only the begining of Mr Sandven's ride but I must say Rachmaninoff is yummy and I will be watching for him in the future!