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bazinga
Oct. 3, 2010, 11:06 AM
Okay so we have been talking about where to get our next horse. It was suggested we go to Europe and look over there. If I went I would be looking for a high jr/am or even grand prix prospect. I want nothing younger than 5 and nothing older than 10.

So just wondering what I would be expecting to pay for a horse like this over in Europe? And what would I be paying over here in the USA or Canada?

Thanks!

SnicklefritzG
Oct. 3, 2010, 11:52 AM
Whatever approach you decide to take, make sure you do plenty of homework. Furthermore, work with people you trust - or that your trainer/agent knows well. Don't plan to make any quick decisions without talking with a LOT of people.

A number of years ago, I was leasing a horse at an "A" barn and overheard one GP trainer say to another trainer "there are a lot of people going to Germany and lining up to pay mid-5 figures and up USD for horses that are actually pretty cheap over there". The conversation seemed to be revolving around the fact that people in the US tend to overpay for european imports.

This was just one person's opinion of how the process works and it was a number of years ago. However, I think it just suggests that you should just be very careful and do a lot of research before buying.

Personally, I wouldn't go over to Europe to buy unless I was looking for something very advanced or was seeking a particular bloodline that I couldn't find in the states. If you are looking for a GP prospect who is already at a fairly high level (just not GP yet), then the extra you would be paying for air transport, anything related to quarantine, etc. is probably not going to be a large % of the purchase price.

tamarak_equestrian
Oct. 3, 2010, 02:03 PM
I've never actually shopped in Europe but I do like to look at what's for sale over there. I usually look at Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands, that sort of area but recently I started looking in Poland and there seems to be a LOT of good deals there right now. Again, not speaking from experience, just what I've come across online. Maybe talk to some big name barns that do a lot of importing and ask what they have available, when they're going next, what they have ready to come over, and then compare what they tell you with what you're finding on the US market.

Darkstar
Oct. 3, 2010, 03:03 PM
I've never actually shopped in Europe but I do like to look at what's for sale over there. I usually look at Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands, that sort of area but recently I started looking in Poland and there seems to be a LOT of good deals there right now.

Poland and the Czech Republic seem to have good prices and good horses right now.

I would agree that anyone shopping in Europe needs to do a BUNCH of research, and while it's easy to shop with a trainer that has connections in Europe - it usually means that between the US Trainer and the European Barn, the price mark up will be dramatic. The same caliber horse from a private barn that doesn't deal with Americans regularly, will be a lot cheaper.

SnicklefritzG
Oct. 3, 2010, 03:11 PM
[snip]

while it's easy to shop with a trainer that has connections in Europe - it usually means that between the US Trainer and the European Barn, the price mark up will be dramatic. The same caliber horse from a private barn that doesn't deal with Americans regularly, will be a lot cheaper.

Yeah, that's probably true.

The the OP: is there a particular reason you want to shop in europe right now? Have you not been able to find the caliber or bloodlines you want? Or is it an issue of wanting to find an exception deal on a great horse?

Calhoun
Oct. 3, 2010, 04:38 PM
I don't know the price on a grand prix prospect in europe right now, but do totally agree on inflated prices. When I shopped in Holland the dutch agent and the american agent I used all had hands in the money pie. Something else to consider is the current euro which seems to be increasing daily in the last few weeks.

If you decide to go, don't be afraid to walk away after making an offer. Treat it like a business transaction, don't get emotionally involved. Tell the agents, this is my price, the both of you may have to come off your commission to make it work.The seller and the agents both know once you get on the plane to come home, the chances of you buying diminish greatly.

Good luck.

RyuEquestrian
Oct. 3, 2010, 05:20 PM
We shopped through an agent in 2005 (the economy was very different then) looking for the same thing and purchased a 5 year old mare competing at 1.20m (4'0) for approximately $65,000. On top of that we paid approximately $10,000 to have her imported.

I am currently on the other side of the equation and looking domestically for high Jr/Am horses for clients and am finding approximately the same prices for prospects between 5-10 years old.

bazinga
Oct. 3, 2010, 06:15 PM
Yeah, that's probably true.

The the OP: is there a particular reason you want to shop in europe right now? Have you not been able to find the caliber or bloodlines you want? Or is it an issue of wanting to find an exception deal on a great horse?

We haven't really started to look for horses for next season because it is so far away, we are just trying to plan what the best route to go is. Ideally we would love to find a great deal on an exceptional horse as you said, but we realize that what we are looking for does come at a high price. It would be much easier to find the horse here for us, however if need be we will be willing to import.

We were planning that if we went not to go to Holland or Germany, rather we would go to Eastern Europe, as we have contacts there who are quite involved in the horse industry, in different disciplines, but they have the contacts for the people with the jumping horses.

:)

keepthelegend
Oct. 3, 2010, 06:32 PM
The UK has the best prices. If going to Europe anywhere it helps so much to have friends/contacts that you trust in the country to direct you and also find out the true price. I went over to Germany and looked at a lot of nice jumpers that were often priced lower than comparable horses in the US, but I think that was due to having a good friend set everything up and get the horses priced without knowing an American was involved!

SnicklefritzG
Oct. 3, 2010, 06:38 PM
^^^ The comments above reminded me of a trip I took to China back in 2008. There were a lot of foreigners visiting at that time because of the Olympics. Anyway, I often found that there were two prices: the Chinese price and the foreigners price. Fortunately, I knew enough about bargaining and had family living there so I knew the true price for most of the things I wanted to buy.


I'm sure the same goes for a lot of other stuff regardless of whether you're talking horses or something else.

sadlmakr
Oct. 4, 2010, 01:40 PM
Have you Really searched here in the USA for a good horse?
There are so many that need homes right now. Even high end horses.
I have had several stables offer high quality horses to me for free just to help feed them.
I am not in a position to take on any more animals at this time.
But I have seen some very fine animals right here at home in the USA, well trained and high quality.
I have learned from several friends who went overseas to look for horses that as soon as the sellers find out there is an American looking for a horse the prices go up considerabley.
If you do go overseas, take someone with you who can speak the languages and knows horses and also be sure to have the animal vetted by an independant Vet.
I have heard some sad stories about what some people thought they were getting and what they really got.
JMHO
sadlmakr

Pennywell Bay
Oct. 4, 2010, 02:59 PM
Have you Really searched here in the USA for a good horse?
sadlmakr

:)

Darkstar
Oct. 4, 2010, 03:38 PM
The UK has the best prices.

While the pound is ridiculously strong at the moment (ugh :( ) I consistently see nice looking horses for sale here in England - that would make some great prospects for the H/J ring back in the states. I routinely see young, nicely started, warmbloods priced under 15,000$ (usd)


eta: like http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/marketplace/classified/4-details-horses-for-sale_254611.htm (he looks great for an adult ammy jumper - and priced at around 5,500$ - that's a steal!).

RyuEquestrian
Oct. 4, 2010, 07:50 PM
While the pound is ridiculously strong at the moment (ugh :( ) I consistently see nice looking horses for sale here in England - that would make some great prospects for the H/J ring back in the states. I routinely see young, nicely started, warmbloods priced under 15,000$ (usd)


eta: like http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/marketplace/classified/4-details-horses-for-sale_254611.htm (he looks great for an adult ammy jumper - and priced at around 5,500$ - that's a steal!).

I just spent 6 months riding in England and yes there are good horses at reasonable prices for A/O Jumpers- not Grand Prix International Level Horses. Those looking in England for International Horses go out of England to find them.

Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I think that exporting from England to the States is a bit more complicated because of health regulations, but this might be completely outdated so I apologize if I'm off the mark.

dogbluehorse
Oct. 4, 2010, 10:04 PM
Have you tried David Hopper in NY? He seems to have v. good horses, not the cheapest but pretty cool and he sells a lot to GP riders etc.

ElementFarm
Oct. 5, 2010, 09:12 AM
Not sure about the market for a "high jr/am or even grand prix prospect" in Europe, but I've bought 6 horses (lower level dressage and hunter types) in my 4 years of living in Germany, and I would honestly say I've gotten ripped off on at least 4 of them. The two that I didn't get ripped off on I was with a trusted German friend, and he did all the initial contact and subsequent negotiating. I'm sure as soon as the trainers/owners heard "American" they added a good 20% maybe more. The barn I board at has several other Americans, and I would assess that every single one of them paid too much for their horses (some as much as 50% too much). Germany has some AMAZING horses, with talent and training, but I would not recommend that you take a trip without someone that A: you trust implicitly, B: someone who knows the local market and knows the reputation of the trainers involved, and C: do a lot of research on your own.
Of note, 3 of my horses came with recent, thorough pre-purchase exam paperwork, and all later had significant soundness issues (identified within a month or so of purchase), so I recommend you have a US vet you trust take a look at any vet paperwork on the horse, and perhaps also watch a video of the horse going at all three gaits on a lunge and under saddle. I would do that next time.
I have three amazing German horses right now, and I'm counting myself lucky every time I ride them, but take your time and do your research.

sar2008
Oct. 5, 2010, 10:43 AM
Have you Really searched here in the USA for a good horse?


:yes:

You can get just as nice horses here without having to pay $10K extra to get them imported....