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View Full Version : Here it Is! High Quality Video of the Spanish WEG Freestyle!



Mike Matson
Oct. 3, 2010, 01:44 AM
:cool: Strap yourself in for goosebumps! This is the one that got 25,000 people on their feet for a standing ovation!

http://www.topiberian.com/index.php?option=com_seyret&task=videodirectlink&Itemid=67&id=1542&lang=es

Beentheredonethat
Oct. 3, 2010, 02:34 AM
I don't know what that is, but it's not coming up on mine. Here on Theo's site are all of the freestyles. The Spanish one is on the third one:
http://www.topdressage.tv/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1920

Mike Matson
Oct. 3, 2010, 02:58 AM
The one on Theo's site is not as good quality (second generation).

FLIPPED HER HALO
Oct. 3, 2010, 03:37 AM
Great video! Thanks for sharing that link! Amazing horse!

alicen
Oct. 3, 2010, 06:59 AM
What kind of shampoo and conditioner do they use on that horse? I want some.

ctanner
Oct. 3, 2010, 09:35 AM
Thanks Mike!The quality on that video is wonderful.

magienoire
Oct. 3, 2010, 12:04 PM
the video didn't load for me either :(

mbm
Oct. 3, 2010, 12:15 PM
honestly? it is worth the 39$ to sign up to FEI TV to see this video in amazingly high quality WITH the crowd reactions and the correct music.

it is a freestlye to be remembered for a long time and it is well well worth the price!

mbm
Oct. 3, 2010, 12:19 PM
here is a vid with the music....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPWvb6MX3Mc

Foxtrot's
Oct. 3, 2010, 12:25 PM
THIS is the ride that will turn on people to dressage. People can nit pick all they want but we are seeing the best dressage we have ever seen, the most thrilling and the best dressage horses ever bred. Compared to yesteryear, the horses are more relaxed, less tail swishing (with a couple of notable mare exceptions that can be forgiven), and less jaring and spuring. The music is sophisticated and to be there in person must be thrilling. It is just not the same on a computer.

NOMIOMI1
Oct. 3, 2010, 12:45 PM
Fantastic music and I was cheering these guys on as well :)

Having said that, the guy has his hands halfway up the neck many times and I'm not sure where,why,what he is doing but its distracting and mut be uncomfortable for the horse.

In saddlebred classes they do this to get lift,...


Otherwise, lovely horse and a great sight to see (different breed) out there.

But how fun he was!

babecakes
Oct. 3, 2010, 01:04 PM
Thanks Mike -- you're the video finder genuis here! A speciality!

Mike Matson
Oct. 3, 2010, 01:06 PM
What this freestyle did more so than the others is that it drew an emotive reaction from all 25,000 of the spectators. It is a musical PERFORMANCE by rider and horse with perfect music for the horse. The Spanish rider didn't just ride a freestyle test, he showed the JOY he was having dancing with his horse!

Gestalt
Oct. 3, 2010, 02:40 PM
This is what musical freestyle is all about. Where there mistakes by rider and horse, yeah, but who cares?!?! He had a wonderful ride on a fantastically beautiful and talented horse. (what a shine on that coat, wow) Lately I've been turned off by dressage. This horse has brought me back to feeling the magic of dressage.

With luck maybe we'll see less warmbloods and more Iberians!!!! :)

rainechyldes
Oct. 3, 2010, 03:05 PM
Lovely.

mbm
Oct. 3, 2010, 03:08 PM
Having said that, the guy has his hands halfway up the neck many times and I'm not sure where,why,what he is doing but its distracting and mut be uncomfortable for the horse.

!

ummm, its called giving ? forward hands etc?

mbm
Oct. 3, 2010, 03:08 PM
This is what musical freestyle is all about. Where there mistakes by rider and horse, yeah, but who cares?!?! He had a wonderful ride on a fantastically beautiful and talented horse. (what a shine on that coat, wow) Lately I've been turned off by dressage. This horse has brought me back to feeling the magic of dressage.

With luck maybe we'll see less warmbloods and more Iberians!!!! :)


this sums it up perfectly :)

NOMIOMI1
Oct. 3, 2010, 05:21 PM
ummm, its called giving ? forward hands etc?

Sure it was :lol:

When it was done the horses front legs elevated quite a bit.

It was quite a show, but I felt the judges were extremely forgiving :)

ec412
Oct. 3, 2010, 07:16 PM
What this freestyle did more so than the others is that it drew an emotive reaction from all 25,000 of the spectators. It is a musical PERFORMANCE by rider and horse with perfect music for the horse. The Spanish rider didn't just ride a freestyle test, he showed the JOY he was having dancing with his horse!

Thanks! I LOVED it! Got a reaction out of me! Wish I would have seen it live.

mbm
Oct. 3, 2010, 07:34 PM
Sure it was :lol:

When it was done the horses front legs elevated quite a bit.

It was quite a show, but I felt the judges were extremely forgiving :)

? so now dressage horses are not supposed to sit and come up in front? This horse is so uphill it it crazy..... and, i seem to remember reading in many ODG books that uphill is good, as is giving and doing upward HHs.

Melissa.Van Doren
Oct. 3, 2010, 07:38 PM
honestly? it is worth the 39$ to sign up to FEI TV to see this video in amazingly high quality WITH the crowd reactions and the correct music.

it is a freestlye to be remembered for a long time and it is well well worth the price!


:yes: I was *SO* happy I bit the bullet and bought a subscription. Getting caught up in this performance was totally worth the money!

Auventera Two
Oct. 3, 2010, 07:59 PM
For me personally, THIS is what dressage is all about :) That is a performance to be remembered. The Iberians just know how to do it!

Ghazzu
Oct. 3, 2010, 08:16 PM
I love it.
*This* pair was having *fun*.

RedHorses
Oct. 3, 2010, 08:17 PM
Thank you Mike! I enjoyed that performance very much. :yes:

Daydream Believer
Oct. 3, 2010, 08:20 PM
Fantastic to watch! Wow! Lovely ride, lovely horse and I loved the riders joy!

2tempe
Oct. 3, 2010, 08:43 PM
Awesome, loved the horse the music and the ride! It was so nice to see him patting the horse, and smiling away (why dont I have time to do that in a test??) No critiquing here, just a technical question: Did the rider actually contain himself long enough to halt and salute? I was laughing at the end, he was so excited.
And it was kind of interesting having the horse walk in at the beginning.

A side comment: though I'm a big fan of Totilas and E. Gal, I have to say I don't find their music very compelling.........

Wish I had been in KY to see these live.

tollertwins
Oct. 3, 2010, 08:47 PM
Loved it! :cool:

NOMIOMI1
Oct. 3, 2010, 09:11 PM
? so now dressage horses are not supposed to sit and come up in front? This horse is so uphill it it crazy..... and, i seem to remember reading in many ODG books that uphill is good, as is giving and doing upward HHs.

He was pulling the horses head up to avoid the poll dropping or the horse going behind the verticle.

IF any rider should be blamed for riding behind too often outside of the ring and having to fix it obviously within, this would be the one :)

I have a feeling the one horse we can see evidence of "deep" work is this one and the pirates of the deep have missed it ;)

Hobbs
Oct. 3, 2010, 09:35 PM
I have a feeling the one horse we can see evidence of "deep" work is this one and the pirates of the deep have missed it

Oh for God's sake (and mine too) leave it alone already. I'm sooooo sick of all the bickering and snide remarks on both sides.....it was a lovely ride.

Mike Matson
Oct. 3, 2010, 09:59 PM
NOMIOMI1 is 26 years old, according to her public profile. Let us defer to her years of experience.

Louise
Oct. 3, 2010, 10:06 PM
NOMIOMI1 is 26 years old, according to her public profile. Let us defer to her years of experience.

And here I thought she was the reincarnation of Slick -- blessedly without the verbosity.

shea'smom
Oct. 3, 2010, 10:09 PM
I watched all the warmups for the musicals. This rider had a lovely warmup, rode on the snaffle, cantered in a half seat, soft, giving hands.

Mike Matson
Oct. 3, 2010, 10:13 PM
I watched all the warmups for the musicals. This rider had a lovely warmup, rode on the snaffle, cantered in a half seat, soft, giving hands.

Thank you for that on-site report. :cool:

kwmred
Oct. 3, 2010, 10:24 PM
Mike, thanks for starting a thread with this video. I posted it on another thread and it seemed to just get swallowed up among the bickering.

I saved this in my favorites. It's a beautiful freestyle. When I watched it as it happened on FEI TV Friday night, I was brought to tears. My daughter was there live... we were texting back and forth... except during this ride.

I enjoyed the entire evening, but this was the highlight!

Oh, and I'm 53 so ya'll should salute me! LOL

Calvincrowe
Oct. 3, 2010, 10:38 PM
I'm not a dressage person in the least, but this ride looked fun for both horse and rider, I laughed out loud with joy while watching it (and scared the cat, too!). This is exciting dressage--which seems like an oxymoron to even utter those two words together.

I watched Edward and Totilas...meh. This was wonderful.

Yeah, yeah..I don't know squat according to the droves of DQs on here...but I liked this better than EG and Toto. Liked Ravel better than EG...but whatever!!

Paragon
Oct. 3, 2010, 10:44 PM
Oh man. Artistically, as a performance, that was outstanding! As a musician, it always makes me roll my eyes emphatically when I see these freestyles set to boring, poorly-synced, sometimes amateurish music. We get these hodgepodges of disjointed elevator music where the horses only approximately match the tempo, and I think it's such a shame.

I can't comment on the technicality of the ride, but it was thrilling to watch! So well-planned.

Arab/WBGirl
Oct. 3, 2010, 11:04 PM
Beautiful horse, beautiful rider, beautiful ride. A real joy to watch. I LOVE the one hand riding that he does. I smiled so much during the video my face hurt lol, and at the end when the rider is so very pleased at the horse scoots forward, I laughed out loud. Thanks for posting this video. I'll definitely watch it again and again.

Petstorejunkie
Oct. 3, 2010, 11:20 PM
This is what musical freestyle is all about. Where there mistakes by rider and horse, yeah, but who cares?!?! He had a wonderful ride on a fantastically beautiful and talented horse. (what a shine on that coat, wow) Lately I've been turned off by dressage. This horse has brought me back to feeling the magic of dressage.

With luck maybe we'll see less warmbloods and more Iberians!!!! :)
Couldn't agree more! His ride gave me hope :)

Mike Matson
Oct. 4, 2010, 02:13 AM
Oh man. Artistically, as a performance, that was outstanding! As a musician, it always makes me roll my eyes emphatically when I see these freestyles set to boring, poorly-synced, sometimes amateurish music. We get these hodgepodges of disjointed elevator music where the horses only approximately match the tempo, and I think it's such a shame.

I can't comment on the technicality of the ride, but it was thrilling to watch! So well-planned.

It's a good thing when musicians give a freestyle a thumbs up! :cool:

Blue Domino
Oct. 4, 2010, 02:48 AM
Wonderful ride, was nice to see some HOT Latin after the COLD Dutch.

Hey, I've got some Spanish blood in me somewhere after watching that video.

That was real dressage.

suzy
Oct. 4, 2010, 08:40 AM
He was pulling the horses head up to avoid the poll dropping or the horse going behind the verticle.



Run the video a few more times, and I think you will see that as he raises his hands he also gives slightly forward. This is what encourages and allows the horse to be so up and free in front. If he had been "pulling," the horse would have pulled back rather than lifting up. Also, I think the amount of riding he does one-handed is evidence of this horse's excellent self carriage.

Truly a lovely ride with such appropriate and appealing music. As someone else mentioned earlier, this is the type of freestyle that will attract non-riders to the sport. A friend who was at WEG said that Juan's ride had the greatest audience "participation."

hitchinmygetalong
Oct. 4, 2010, 09:03 AM
NOMIOMI1 is 26 years old, according to her public profile. Let us defer to her years of experience.

For more background on her expertise, refer to written facts:


Jan. 2, 2007, 11:30 AM
NOMIOMI1
Advanced

Join Date: Oct. 13, 2006
Posts: 1,228
Ohhh Im so in!!!
I ride an arab (purebred) and am learning dressage just now (yes this week)
I cant afford to even go to the rated show in a few weeks because of my broke down car.,
My last hunter was an appy.
I currently have a western appy and a sport horse Arabian
My friend trains me and she is not a trainer (even though she is good)
I practice in a western saddle most days (yes I still post and do test's_)
I ride in capris sometimes and get a leather burn LOL
I have no trailer and have to bum a ride to shows
I use western bridles with pelhams LOL
I use draw reins when IM lazy
I lunge with a whip and actually hit them (lightly) with it when they wont go
I use western spurs if I forget my english ones
I bit up my horses and leave them (15 min at the most) if they are being hard
I use barrels if my standards are too far (across the arena) for my jumps
I tie my reins in a knot around the girth if I dont have my side reins
I like thowing my horse away too much when I ride and teach my horses to stop like a reiner because its fun

I loved loved loved the video and only wish I had been there in person to feel the energy and excitement.

dotneko
Oct. 4, 2010, 09:26 AM
Do you really want to go down the road of
looking at whether people on this BB are 'qualified' to
judge? There sure aren't a lot of people who
actually have the requisite tools to be able to
legitimately come up with the score for
those freestyles. I am all for healthy discussion
of rides, but it is small to post someone's
cv and beneath what I have come to expect
from many of you.
Anyway, I will never rise to the level of an 'O'
judge. I have said on other threads and other
forums that I agree with the placings and scores.
There was enough lacking technically to pull the
scores down. I personally thought the music was
just plain loud and monotonous. It did not move me
at all. I thought the choreography was relatively
pedestrian and test-like.
It was a good freestyle, absolutely. Medal worthy?
I don't think so.
I resent the implication that the 'fix' was in. Please.
Carry on.

NOMIOMI1
Oct. 4, 2010, 09:57 AM
I'm not overly concerned :)

I had a jumper up until just last year (gasp), and yes, about 4 years ago I did AQHA and hunters.

I've never said otherwise ;) Oh yes and Mike I'm not middle aged... Is that a rule here on the forum? lol

It doesn't change what I said about the Spanish rider... I guess if I'm not bashing Totilas then my words are wasted eh Mike/Hitch????

Mike Matson
Oct. 4, 2010, 10:02 AM
I am not overly concerned either. :sleepy:

grayarabpony
Oct. 4, 2010, 10:09 AM
He was pulling the horses head up to avoid the poll dropping or the horse going behind the verticle.

IF any rider should be blamed for riding behind too often outside of the ring and having to fix it obviously within, this would be the one :)

I have a feeling the one horse we can see evidence of "deep" work is this one and the pirates of the deep have missed it ;)

Nomiomi1, you need to learn the difference between pull and give..

I agree with the comments about disjointed elevator music in other freestyles and cold Dutch. The riding to the music of the Spanish rider was fantastic, and the stallion was fantastic. He has so much energy and enthusiasm for his work.

As far as technicalities, he really can't be much faulted. Great self-carriage and energy from behind, beautiful extensions, beautiful passage... it was so wonderful to see a horse handy enough to really do the work easily, and not be cranked down until he was sputtering.

Xfactor
Oct. 4, 2010, 10:11 AM
From a total green horn perspective, I can't comment on anything technical.

I have no idea as to whether it would be preferable to have a less technically perfect performance, but one that brings a crowd to their feet...or a great technical performance that is lacking an infusion of joy.
I suppose as a "test"..technical beats art.
As a spectator, I admittedly much preferred the passion of this team versus the chilly execution of movements, as precise as they may have been, performed by a few others. Just my own preference, not suggesting anyone need agree.
But THIS would inspire me to dive headlong into the discipline.


The video was a beautiful example of a lovely team enjoying themselves at a high level of competition. It was nice to see joy, passion and power all rolled into one very inspiring performance.

Wonderful way to start my day.
Thanks soooo much for sharing!!!!!!!!!

Mike Matson
Oct. 4, 2010, 10:13 AM
The video was a beautiful example of a lovely team enjoying themselves at a high level of competition. It was nice to see joy, passion and power all rolled into one very inspiring performance.

Truth. :)

hitchinmygetalong
Oct. 4, 2010, 10:17 AM
I am not overly concerned either. :sleepy:

Ditto that, Mike. :lol:

I think it is fair to bring into question someone's "qualifications" when they are second-guessing FEI judges via a video on the internet.


I guess if I'm not bashing Totilas then my words are wasted eh Mike/Hitch????

I fail to see what this has to do with this thread. Sorry if I missed your point.

I know what I personally like to see and Fuego's test fit the bill. Energy, exuberance, joy. They may not have medaled, but this ride will be remembered and admired for years.

There are times when I am thankful for my lack of dressage "expertise" and this is one of them. I would hate to have my feelings on this ride dampered by focussing on the less than perfect moments.

I would be curious how the final halt/salute was scored, though. I think he should have been given extra credit for not coming off! :lol:

Ponypoor
Oct. 4, 2010, 10:27 AM
When is the last time that you had so much fun in front of 27,000 people and lived to tell the tale. My only wish was that I wanted to see more of the ride in a walk to show off his talents but otherwise no complaints from this old lady. Love, love, love this pair. They both work very well together. If I had been there I would have been on my feet cheering for them.

dags
Oct. 4, 2010, 11:06 AM
So, this didn't medal - correct? Why not? I'm so trying to figure this out... I *think* I recall all 3 Medal horses have an error even I can pick out (break to canter, flat-footed in the piaffe), but can't find any glaring errors here (though I'm sure I'm missing some nuances) - but one judge scored a 71?

suzyq
Oct. 4, 2010, 11:34 AM
5-10 years ago when I was at Aachen every year, the Spanish riders had the most reaction from the audiences. I think it was that, as someone here said, the joy of riding was so apparent.

OneGrayPony
Oct. 4, 2010, 11:55 AM
I LOVE this freestyle. Of course, I'm partial to Andys, and Fuego is just an awesome horse. What expression!

Someone said that he was lifting - that appeared to me also to be a slight lift and a give - he most likely needed that as Andalusians and Morgans (I'm sure there are others) tend to go BTV just naturally. Happens with a short-ish neck.

I looked and looked for the "wide behind in the pirouette" but he appeared to be just as "wide behind in the canter". He appears to be a horse that is just kind of wide behind.

I'd make a joke here about spanish men and the space they need...but I won't ;-)

The backing steps he took at the beginning probably hurt him, as the lack of halt at the end - I'm not sure what else hurt his scores, maybe one of the enlightened can point them out.

I love his motoring in the extensions - you can see him just push and push and push. It follows his facial expression. What a cool horse! This is what *I* want to get out of dressage - the sheer joy and beauty of a well ridden expressive (if not precise) test.

Heinz 57
Oct. 4, 2010, 11:56 AM
NOMIOMI1 is 26 years old, according to her public profile. Let us defer to her years of experience.

Find this much less relevant (and rather immature, but I digress) than the text that hitch quoted about having only started riding dressage sometime in 2006.

I'd also like to point out that Laura Bechtolsheimer is only 25, so how about we leave the age card out of it and stick to picking on her level of experience. :)

Bickering aside, it was a lovely ride and exactly the kind of PR english-based equestrian sports NEEDS at this time. Something that even Suzie Jones who has never been within 20 yards of a horse might enjoy watching - and it was DRESSAGE! +1 :yes:

Bluey
Oct. 4, 2010, 12:03 PM
For those that wonder about the judging, you could think of playing a piano piece with lots of gusto in a bar, everyone really going along with the tune, that the piano is a little bit off and the player misses a note here and there, well, who cares in all that fun?

To a judge, every less than correct movement, less than precise transition, the hurried extra steps here and there, that is like for a musician that missed note here and there, that off key chord and THAT is also part of the performance that was judged there, it was not just about the fun, not at that level.

When in competition and at the top, judging is about more than one or two qualities of a performance.
Bar differences of opinions from judge to judge, standarized as dressage may be, there is still some room for interpretation, just not that much.
That the performance be not only fun, but extremely correct and precise does matter, when others are more correct and precise, even if maybe not as "fun".

I think that with some more time and work, Fuego will give others there a better run for their money, if they don't also improve, which they sure may too.:)

dags
Oct. 4, 2010, 12:05 PM
Bickering aside, it was a lovely ride and exactly the kind of PR english-based equestrian sports NEEDS at this time. Something that even Suzie Jones who has never been within 20 yards of a horse might enjoy watching - and it was DRESSAGE! +1 :yes:

But it wasn't on NBC :( what a bummer.

mbm
Oct. 4, 2010, 12:33 PM
you know what? people will remember Fuego and his 2010 WEG freestyle for years to come :)

He has my vote as "the coolest thing to of happened to dressage in eons"

:)

oh, and the other cool thing is that for teh most part, the ENTIRE dressage community is AGREEING that this horse and this rider were awesome and everyone fell in love with them!

we should embrace that and realize that we all do love our sport and try to keep the love flowing as long as possible :)

butlerfamilyzoo
Oct. 4, 2010, 01:15 PM
I agree with the other poster, having grown up with arabs, morgans and owning an andy cross... These suckers curl behind the vertical playing in the pasture, let alone actually being asked to sit, they just curl up more, like little round beach balls. It has nothing to do with riding the horse deep... With these types of horses you are constantly PUSHING them up and forward, with soft giving hands.

If you compare this guys hand position to edward and others, its very close to the same. What you think you see as really high is mostly an illusion due to this horse's very short neck and smaller stature. Though yes, he does keep his hands higher and giving quite often and one of the only ones that i saw pat the horse on the neck a couple times! (Though i didnt get to see many of the rides yet)

This totally makes me want to go buy an Andy.

Totally cool to watch. Totally makes me want to run out and turn on some fun spanish music and dance with my horses. I'm getting so sick of the technical arguments, i'm ready for the fun!

And frankly, i liked this ride better than toto and ravel too, even technically speaking.

suzy
Oct. 4, 2010, 01:52 PM
I agree with the other poster, having grown up with arabs, morgans and owning an andy cross... These suckers curl behind the vertical playing in the pasture, let alone actually being asked to sit, they just curl up more, like little round beach balls. It has nothing to do with riding the horse deep... With these types of horses you are constantly PUSHING them up and forward, with soft giving hands.




So absolutely true! I have a Morgan in for training, and my job is to constantly be pushing her up and forward so that she seeks the bit rather than curling behind it. This tendency is very much a function of their conformation, so Juan's riding style makes perfect sense.

Mike Matson
Oct. 4, 2010, 02:23 PM
you know what? people will remember Fuego and his 2010 WEG freestyle for years to come :)



This. If riders want to be remembered for posterity, then they should perform a freestyle with the joy and partnership shown in this performance. I can think of about 4 performances that fall into this category. This one joins them.

OneGrayPony
Oct. 4, 2010, 02:26 PM
Who else is on your list if I may ask, Mike? I'd love to see more!

Mike Matson
Oct. 4, 2010, 02:52 PM
Anky and Bonfire's "Song Sung Blue" freestyle (the first "performance" freestyle).

Klaus Balkenhol and Goldstern's "Spanish" freestyle at the 1994 WEG (people were crying in the stands after the performance).

Debbie McDonald and Brentina's - "MoTown" freestyle at the 2005 World Cup (an entire indoor sports complex of spectators applauding and cheering DURING the performance).

Andreas Helgstrand and Blue Hors Matine's freestyle at the 2006 WEG (nearly 10 million YouTube views).

I believe this Spanish freestyle, if put on YouTube, would go viral like the Blue Hors Matine freestyle did. Perhaps some of the CotH PRE breeders or those who speak Spanish can contact the site where the video is and request they do so.

yaya
Oct. 4, 2010, 03:01 PM
It's on You Tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPWvb6MX3Mc

I like this one better than the one on the Iberian site because it has the music and cheers in real time. The Iberian one has no ambient noise, just an overdub of the music.

kwmred
Oct. 4, 2010, 03:16 PM
It's on You Tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPWvb6MX3Mc

I like this one better than the one on the Iberian site because it has the music and cheers in real time. The Iberian one has no ambient noise, just an overdub of the music.

I think I'm watching this one right now :-) Found myself humming this tune earlier while I was cooking.

There were several new videos posted to Youtube. I need to check again today. One of them was done with a tripod and the end of the ring and you get a different view. The one on the Iberian site is very professional just wish they had left the crowd noise in.

appytoo
Oct. 4, 2010, 03:26 PM
Just how could NBC leave out his performance? The ONLY one that brought the house down. Now if we could figure out how to make sure they include it in their wrap up next weekend. . .

Fuego deserves to be NBC broadcasted not just YouTubed!

kwmred
Oct. 4, 2010, 03:57 PM
Anky and Bonfire's "Song Sung Blue" freestyle (the first "performance" freestyle).

Klaus Balkenhol and Goldstern's "Spanish" freestyle at the 1994 WEG (people were crying in the stands after the performance).

Debbie McDonald and Brentina's - "MoTown" freestyle at the 2005 World Cup (an entire indoor sports complex of spectators applauding and cheering DURING the performance).

Andreas Helgstrand and Blue Hors Matine's freestyle at the 2006 WEG (nearly 10 million YouTube views).

I believe this Spanish freestyle, if put on YouTube, would go viral like the Blue Hors Matine freestyle did. Perhaps some of the CotH PRE breeders or those who speak Spanish can contact the site where the video is and request they do so.

Mike, do you have any links to good videos of these? I found the good one of Matine (wonderful), and know Anky's by heart. It's the other two I can't find.

SueL
Oct. 4, 2010, 04:10 PM
I can only find Brentina and Debbie from 2008. But it's pretty damned good. Lovely horse, lovely ride. great music. Enjoy!

Wonderful Brentina... You will always be in our hearts...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU_chLXXETU

Sue

Mike Matson
Oct. 4, 2010, 04:31 PM
I have video of the Goldstern freestyle and the Anky freestyle. I'll have to get them converted to DVD and uploaded to YouTube one of these days. There is a YouTube video of the Goldstern freestyle at the 1992 Olympics but it isn't as good as the 1994 performance. Surprisingly there is no online video of Bonfire's Song Sung Blue freestyle.

The 2005 World Cup video does include the Brentina freestyle. It's pretty electric, especially when the crowd gets into it!

appytoo
Oct. 4, 2010, 05:16 PM
Mike, is this the video you mean of Anky and Bonfire?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng-k8Ftk7LA&feature=related

I went looking for video of Bonfire, one of my all time favorites. Look how beautifully relaxed he is. . .

kwmred
Oct. 4, 2010, 05:21 PM
This was just uploaded to youtube about an hour ago. Great video of the Fuego freestyle with German commentary. You don't have to speak German to get the message.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVtZodFmcLU

kwmred
Oct. 4, 2010, 07:00 PM
Thought you might be interested in this article at DressageDaily.com about Fuego XII and Juan Munoz Diaz. TONS of magnificent pictures!

http://www.dressagedaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5492:true-love-at-the-alltech-games-fuego-xii-set-hearts-aflutter&catid=282:maryblog&Itemid=381

mbm
Oct. 4, 2010, 08:35 PM
OMG... This was just uploaded to youtube about an hour ago. It's a must see. Great video of the Fuego freestyle with German commentary. You don't have to speak German to get the message. I understand a lot more than I thought I would (been a long time since I took german in college).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVtZodFmcLU

this appears to be the exact same thing i watched live on Sat night on the FEI site..... . of course what i saw had english voices, but the video is the same.

Mike Matson
Oct. 4, 2010, 08:51 PM
It is so annoying to have commentators talk during a freestyle as they do on the YouTube video. Shut up!! :yes:

Calena
Oct. 4, 2010, 09:02 PM
OMG... This was just uploaded to youtube about an hour ago. It's a must see. Great video of the Fuego freestyle with German commentary. You don't have to speak German to get the message. I understand a lot more than I thought I would (been a long time since I took german in college).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVtZodFmcLU

I studied German for 2 years and remember about 5 lines :lol:. I did get the part at the end when he exclaimed, "THIS is the Kur!" He got that one right :D.

PiaffePlease
Oct. 5, 2010, 02:34 PM
A very nice example of the breed. Very straight mover for an Iberian. The test was just beautiful!!

esdressage
Oct. 5, 2010, 04:24 PM
Now THAT brought a smile to my face! What a great pair, and how wonderful to see exuberance and joy in such a lovely performance! Great music too… thank you!

PS - shea'smom, how lucky you were to be able to also watch the warmups! That must have been fabulous to see.

shea'smom
Oct. 5, 2010, 07:08 PM
It was great, except for the abusive Polish rider. Kinda put a damper on my whole trip. Most of the riders were great, so awesome to be within 20 feet of them!

Mike Matson
Oct. 5, 2010, 11:16 PM
Mike, is this the video you mean of Anky and Bonfire?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng-k8Ftk7LA&feature=related

I went looking for video of Bonfire, one of my all time favorites. Look how beautifully relaxed he is. . .

Yes, it is! Thank you! :)

spirithorse
Oct. 5, 2010, 11:37 PM
Mr. Matson

Thank you for this video link.
This rider was magnificent in how he diligently kept releasing the bits as much as he could...his reins were supple most of the time..........and the horse actually appeared to be having fun at the performance...............

This performance, in my humble opinion, was more representative of dressage under the FEI rules..........it is a shame that judges do not follow the rules.
Point being made is that this rider diligently used the snaffle over the curb.........................

Mike Matson
Oct. 6, 2010, 12:23 AM
spirithorse - you have a good eye. :)

princessfluffybritches
Oct. 6, 2010, 11:20 PM
Spirit, you certainly do have a good eye! And stuff like that should be given full points. Sheesh, what ever happened to rewarding a good job?

Bluey
Oct. 7, 2010, 12:59 AM
Spirit, you certainly do have a good eye! And stuff like that should be given full points. Sheesh, what ever happened to rewarding a good job?

No, no, no, you have to hit the notes right first, before you get to do flourishes.

Without being correct and precise first, the rest is just not good enough, sorry.

Maybe another day, but that day, that show, the placings were correct, for what the rules read and those are the same for all.

Now, if you want to change the rules and add an applause meter as one of the scores, be my guest.;)

spirithorse
Oct. 7, 2010, 09:08 AM
Article 401
supple, loose and flexible
The medal horses had zero of these attributes in the poll, neck and shoulders
Article 401.2
The horse thus gives the impression of doing, of its own accord, what is
The medal horses were never released in order for the horse to present itself
Article 401.4
suppleness of the joints, free from the paralysing effects of resistance
The medal horses did not have a poll that was supple and the poll, neck, shoulder of the medal horses were paralized by the bit pressures applied by the riders
Article 401.5
The head should remain in a steady position, as a rule slightly in front of the vertical, with a supple poll as the highest point of the neck,
The medal horses did not meet this prerequiste throughout their tests, therefore, the movements could not be scored high...........this position is to aid in the horse obtaining suppleness

Bluey
Oct. 7, 2010, 09:14 AM
Article 401
supple, loose and flexible
The medal horses had zero of these attributes in the poll, neck and shoulders
Article 401.2
The horse thus gives the impression of doing, of its own accord, what is
The medal horses were never released in order for the horse to present itself
Article 401.4
suppleness of the joints, free from the paralysing effects of resistance
The medal horses did not have a poll that was supple and the poll, neck, shoulder of the medal horses were paralized by the bit pressures applied by the riders
Article 401.5
The head should remain in a steady position, as a rule slightly in front of the vertical, with a supple poll as the highest point of the neck,
The medal horses did not meet this prerequiste throughout their tests, therefore, the movements could not be scored high...........this position is to aid in the horse obtaining suppleness

That is, of course, in YOUR opinion.:yes:
Your qualifications to be a judge at the international level are...?;)

2ndyrgal
Oct. 7, 2010, 02:28 PM
So very much for posting that. I went home after the freestyle Friday night, and attempted to somehow describe to my DH, exactly what I'd seen and felt.

I played this for him last night and he was completely blown away. His limited exposure to dressage,was previously witnessed, endless training level and first level tests, which he considered largely, coma inducing, or at least a cure for insomnia.

He was in love with the music and said "his aids are nearly invisible, look how light the horse is!!"

This from someone who has no idea who Totilas is, no idea who Steffen Peters is and has no agenda, other than to ask me...

"If you rode Junior like that, would he look that good? Maybe you should try being more subtle with your aids." Ok Honey, no problem, I'll do that, I'm INSPIRED!!

I'm not sure even Fuego's rider can get a 1700lb draft cross that light in the bridle...

But thanks Mike, I think I've got him understanding that switching from eventing and foxhunting to dressage, isn't "dropping down a level" in my riding.

bort84
Oct. 7, 2010, 03:52 PM
Okay, I loved the Fuego ride. Absolutely.

However, I find it odd that many who tend to hate on Totilas don't see some of the similarities with this horse.

This horse was quite BTV for much of the ride. He also has a short neck like Totilas and was not let out much, very similar to how EG handles Totilas during extensions (and gets slammed for on here). A lot of that is just that both horses have short necks - but when EG does it, it's clearly due to rollkur, and when this happens on Fuego, it's because he has a short neck and is an Andy?

Anyway, I thought the ride was lovely, and I'd love to see more like it. It was joyous and light, and I thought much nicer than the pair's GPS - more freedom and technically better, I thought.

However, I think it's a bit odd that some are excusing Fuego's similar tendency to be BTV, to be short in the neck, and to move in a very extravagant fashion (which many have called "cart horse movement" in Totilas) and slam Totilas and EG for the same things.

One of the first things I thought when I saw Fuego was "man, I wish he could get his nose out of his chest a bit and get some more lift and freedom in his head and neck." I'm sure this horse has a natural tendency to be that way - I just think it's funny that for him, it's forgiven as a breed trait or whatever, and for Totilas it's because EG rollkurs him to death. I don't like rollkur, but I don't think it's the main cause of all of the Dutch horses' shortcomings.

*Also, to comment on NOMIOM1's post about his hands being way up the horse's neck - it's very hard to ride horses built this way (short necked, small-ish, and VERY cresty) if you are a long limbed person. It's really strange to adjust to, but many times your reins are just too long if they are the "normal" distance away from the horse's neck. You may have found it distracting, but there's likely no real way around this because of the way this horse/rider is built.

I also think when he was pushing his hands forward or raising them a bit, he was encouraging his horse to stop curling up. I grew up riding/training saddlebreds, and this movement is slightly different in this case. On an ASB with a more tightly adjusted curb, raising the hands while moving them a bit forward actually raises the horse up and back off of the curb (it's a pretty advanced technique you can only use with much success on finished horses and with very educated hands). In Fuego's case, with how the curb was adjusted and how he was using his hands, I don't think that's exactly what he was trying to do - I think it was more of a give/release moment to encourage the horse forward into the contact.

mbm
Oct. 7, 2010, 04:00 PM
bort, to answer your question, yeah short in the neck, btv and tension all showed up....

but the difference , as i probably said elsewhere, is that the horse was free to express himself , in fact he was encouraged to do so(forward giving hands etc)...

the other big difference and i will never hear the end of this when i say it here, is that totials is down in the back most of the time.... Fuego is over his back and hugely uphill because of it. i know i will be roasted in COTH hell for saying that, but it is true and is also what the various folks i know who are very educated say too.

lots of factors, but it can all be summed up as "he appears to be more correctly trained and presented" and fire compared to cold precision. ;)

oh and it isnt lost on some of us that the wonder dressage horse if the century is basically an iberian with swing.

katarine
Oct. 7, 2010, 04:44 PM
As you PROBABLY said elsewhere? PROBABLY?

bort84
Oct. 7, 2010, 04:49 PM
Hmm, I don't know. I'll admit he looks free-ish from time to time. But for the most part, he's quite cramped in the head/neck, the rider does have a pretty firm feel on that curb (despite his sometimes giving hands), and I just found myself wanting him to come up and back a bit and get his nose out of his chest - that would have made the overall picture even more stunning (I feel the same way about Totilas and most of the top GP horses out there).

His freestyle was certainly awesome to watch, I'm not disagreeing with that - I guess I just don't understand those that really dislike Totilas really loving this horse... Is it because he's a non-WB and is "safe" to root for if you like to be a non-conformist in dressage?

It just seems odd that some are so quick to excuse his cramped head and neck and "carriage horse" movement when many of these same people are quick to denounce "modern" dressage for not following the classic ideal of poll-high and never BTV. Just an interesting observation, I think.

mbm
Oct. 7, 2010, 05:38 PM
i didnt know anyone was excusing his short neck etc?

i do however, appreciate that he is very very uphill, and his rider tries to get him more up and open instead of shutting him down.

i just like the "feel" of him more, he "feels" more correct - even tho there was a lot of tension etc. he also really does use his hind end really well - ie: he engages, and does do a decent job of lengthening his frame and covering ground in extended paces.

was he perfect? of course not! but a breath of fresh air for sure! i think he really did inspire a lot of folks! how cool is that?

my comments about Totilas are not about the horse but how he is ridden. i know he is god to many, but seriously his back is so dropped in most of the pics i have seen and if you stop his vids 95% of the time his back is dropped -

sure, i could be blind, but what about the folks i know who are extremely educated saying the same thing?

in any case - it is always cool when an underdog steals the limelight from the star. and i always root for the underdog :)

wouldn't it be so cool to have the wonder horse, the horse of the century, the horse that no horse could ever hope to beat, be beaten and not only beaten but by a *gasp* "non traditional" horse ie not a warmblood?

mbm
Oct. 7, 2010, 05:42 PM
As you PROBABLY said elsewhere? PROBABLY?

sure... :) i don't post everything i write - i tend to delete/censor a lot of stuff before i hit "submit" .... to much poster rollkur and negative reinforcement has made me very careful about what i post lol!

katarine
Oct. 7, 2010, 05:47 PM
Somehow all those purported restraints have not inhibited - in any discernable way-your ability to regurgate the same data, ad infinitum.

spirithorse
Oct. 7, 2010, 05:52 PM
It is time for a BIG Fresian to show those WB's what dressage is really about, and the Fresian should be accompanied by a QH, a Morgan, a Mustang, a Heinz 57 variety......

Don Raphaelo Rollkurista
Oct. 7, 2010, 06:40 PM
I think I can feel the monkeys coming.

alicen
Oct. 7, 2010, 07:20 PM
What the heck differnence does the breed of the horse make? What you see is what you get. And I know what I didn't see with Fuego: no suspension and piaffe that looked like a jack hammer.

bort84
Oct. 7, 2010, 07:21 PM
To clarify, so it doesn't seem like I'm hating on Fuego:

I definitely had the most "fun" watching this ride. It was very engaging and refreshing. There was a lot of exuberance and excitement - I grew up riding/training saddle seat, and there is a lot of me that misses the showmanship aspect of that discipline. However, more of me loves the precision and technique dressage requires.

Anyway, on my first time watching each freestyle, I thought Fuego's was the most "fun" to watch. Totilas was a little underwhelming compared to his usual self, though still technically great. Some have said he seemed a bit tired - I could see that (and his score was certainly a bit inflated). After running through them again, Fuego's lost a bit of its lustre when I was examining the ride more closely, but it was still energetic and fun.

My complaint is not with Fuego, it's with those who are so down on "modern" dressage (not saying everyone who likes Fuego fits in this category, as I quite like Fuego and don't fit in this category) that they are siezing this horse as an icon of what modern dressage could be, or should be, or something, even though he has some pretty noticeable faults/flaws and so does his rider (just like all horses and riders do).

mbm: I'm not saying you've excused his short cramped head and neck. However, others have mentioned him being poll high and not BTV, even though he is most of the time.

Some are also talking about how this pair seems so harmonious, yet I see a hot horse who's a little tense and prone to being behind the bridle being ridden by an equally exuberant rider who unfortunately gets a little "loud" with his riding. I don't think the horse looks extra thrilled or happy compared to most other top dressage competitors out there. He just looks hot and fiery, which I think some are confusing for super willing and happy.

I also don't see exceptional giving hands - I see a horse who is a bit behind the bridle who when encouraged by his rider with a lot of rein slack, still isn't super enthused about getting onto the bit. Someone mentioned his use of the snaffle - when I look at stills and the video, this guy is on the curb quite a lot. Certainly that's not a sin, and some horses prefer light constant pressure on the curb, but to hold him up like he has these great hands compared to his peers is a bit over the top to me.

I guess for me it boils down to the fact that a few (NOT most) seem to be having a hard time viewing this horse objectively because they are so excited to see a non-WB compete and do well. It's like the people who really dislike modern dressage can stand behind this horse because he's not one of the "cool kids" even though, to my eye, he has a LOT of the same faults as these "cool kids" that some like to rail on.

Again, I thought the ride was exciting and neat and refreshing.

I'm not saying everyone who thought the ride was great is doing so just to be contrary. But I think it's a fair observation that a few seem to be holding this pair up as an example for things they shouldn't be.

moukoyui
Oct. 7, 2010, 08:43 PM
Just my two pennies... I think that Fuego has most of the same, or similar, problems as many of his better known competitors. HOWEVER, I really appreciated how round and active he was across the back. When showing high level dressage to the 'uninformed' most do comment on Totilas's dropped back. And it is something that has always bothered me. I also see both horse as tense, however I am more prone to forgive the tenseness in Fuego because it looks to my eyes like his rider encourages him forward more than he holds him back. There are many other comparisons that a viewer can make, but the problem I find is this - its not so much the horse I like better - it is the ride. It was much less technically correct and I would never debate the placing as I am not a judge; but it showed an effort to be forgiving and forward with the hands and a horse that visually demonstrated its ability to carry itself, again not saying Totilas cannot just saying I have not seen it.


This is my personal opinion and in no way invalidates anyone else's.

princessfluffybritches
Oct. 7, 2010, 11:23 PM
No, no, no, you have to hit the notes right first, before you get to do flourishes.

Without being correct and precise first, the rest is just not good enough, sorry.

Maybe another day, but that day, that show, the placings were correct, for what the rules read and those are the same for all.

Now, if you want to change the rules and add an applause meter as one of the scores, be my guest.;)

Sometimes I really think that newbies "have to pay their dues" before being considered "serious" competition.

princessfluffybritches
Oct. 7, 2010, 11:26 PM
Article 401
supple, loose and flexible
The medal horses had zero of these attributes in the poll, neck and shoulders
Article 401.2
The horse thus gives the impression of doing, of its own accord, what is
The medal horses were never released in order for the horse to present itself
Article 401.4
suppleness of the joints, free from the paralysing effects of resistance
The medal horses did not have a poll that was supple and the poll, neck, shoulder of the medal horses were paralized by the bit pressures applied by the riders
Article 401.5
The head should remain in a steady position, as a rule slightly in front of the vertical, with a supple poll as the highest point of the neck,
The medal horses did not meet this prerequiste throughout their tests, therefore, the movements could not be scored high...........this position is to aid in the horse obtaining suppleness

How come nobody plays by the rules??

And Spirit, did your good eyes also notice that pat on the neck during Fuego's freestyle?

princessfluffybritches
Oct. 7, 2010, 11:32 PM
Okay, I loved the Fuego ride. Absolutely.

However, I find it odd that many who tend to hate on Totilas don't see some of the similarities with this horse.

This horse was quite BTV for much of the ride. He also has a short neck like Totilas and was not let out much, very similar to how EG handles Totilas during extensions (and gets slammed for on here). A lot of that is just that both horses have short necks - but when EG does it, it's clearly due to rollkur, and when this happens on Fuego, it's because he has a short neck and is an Andy?

Anyway, I thought the ride was lovely, and I'd love to see more like it. It was joyous and light, and I thought much nicer than the pair's GPS - more freedom and technically better, I thought.

However, I think it's a bit odd that some are excusing Fuego's similar tendency to be BTV, to be short in the neck, and to move in a very extravagant fashion (which many have called "cart horse movement" in Totilas) and slam Totilas and EG for the same things.

One of the first things I thought when I saw Fuego was "man, I wish he could get his nose out of his chest a bit and get some more lift and freedom in his head and neck." I'm sure this horse has a natural tendency to be that way - I just think it's funny that for him, it's forgiven as a breed trait or whatever, and for Totilas it's because EG rollkurs him to death. I don't like rollkur, but I don't think it's the main cause of all of the Dutch horses' shortcomings.

*Also, to comment on NOMIOM1's post about his hands being way up the horse's neck - it's very hard to ride horses built this way (short necked, small-ish, and VERY cresty) if you are a long limbed person. It's really strange to adjust to, but many times your reins are just too long if they are the "normal" distance away from the horse's neck. You may have found it distracting, but there's likely no real way around this because of the way this horse/rider is built.

I also think when he was pushing his hands forward or raising them a bit, he was encouraging his horse to stop curling up. I grew up riding/training saddlebreds, and this movement is slightly different in this case. On an ASB with a more tightly adjusted curb, raising the hands while moving them a bit forward actually raises the horse up and back off of the curb (it's a pretty advanced technique you can only use with much success on finished horses and with very educated hands). In Fuego's case, with how the curb was adjusted and how he was using his hands, I don't think that's exactly what he was trying to do - I think it was more of a give/release moment to encourage the horse forward into the contact.

I agree, I was seeing some gives following some collected movements.

spirithorse
Oct. 8, 2010, 12:32 AM
How come nobody plays by the rules??

And Spirit, did your good eyes also notice that pat on the neck during Fuego's freestyle?

YES sure did....and did you see him sending his hands forward quite alot.
He was releasing, however, Fuego just did not let out his nose......

Yes, the performance was not perfect but is was more correct...especially when you consider that Fuego definitely was performing as a HAPPY HORSE which is what FEI wants. :lol:

Mike Matson
Oct. 8, 2010, 01:47 AM
If Totilas had music that made him look like he was "dancing", we would not be having this discussion. Totilas' music does nothing for the horse. Maybe after the audience reaction to the Spanish freestyle, those involved with Totilas will find better music. Michael Erdmann would be a good place to start. He is the freestyle designer for the Spanish freestyle.

mbm
Oct. 8, 2010, 02:33 AM
Fuego's freestyle is brilliant artistically. the more i watch and listen the more intrigued i get. it is very flashy but also very very subtle.

i love that musicians really really like the music and the ridden interpretation.

we really do need to figure out how to get some qualified individuals to judge the artistic aspect of the Kur.

monstrpony
Oct. 8, 2010, 11:10 AM
Of all of the performances at WEG that are out there to be seen, this one is the one I keep coming back to and watching again. And again. And again.

Mike Matson
Oct. 8, 2010, 11:27 AM
Agreed. I've probably watched it nearly 10 times.

pluvinel
Oct. 8, 2010, 02:20 PM
If Totilas had music that made him look like he was "dancing", we would not be having this discussion. Totilas' music does nothing for the horse. Maybe after the audience reaction to the Spanish freestyle, those involved with Totilas will find better music. Michael Erdmann would be a good place to start. He is the freestyle designer for the Spanish freestyle.
Agreed.

All the other freestyles (that I've seen, including Totilas') are just an uninspired compendium of GP movements put together in a test and ridden to insipid background muzak music.

Fuego's ride actually showed a rider dancing with his horse. The movements were a bit "out of the box". I also saw a "happy horse" in Fuego's ride. With few exceptions, the tail was still or "tassleing" (moving back and forth like a tassle) during the trot and canter.

Totilas' tail was wringing around like a helicopter the entire ride. That ride did not come across as a joyful partnership between a rider and his horse, thus why people feel Fuego's ride was superior.

Bluey
Oct. 8, 2010, 02:45 PM
Sometimes I really think that newbies "have to pay their dues" before being considered "serious" competition.

Of course newbies have to pay their dues, is called becoming good with experience.
It is tough to be as good and as polished as someone that has been there, been doing that for long time, really.;)

Even the fastest horse in the world won't run at it's best in a race until it has learned to run in races.

It will be very, very rare that someone new will get to the top and beat them all at their game, not because he is new at it and an unknown, but because he won't be as good yet at it.

In dressage, judges, as has been explained time and again, score by more than if a horse's tail goes around a few times more or less, really.:p

InWhyCee Redux
Oct. 8, 2010, 04:31 PM
Also, I think the amount of riding he does one-handed is evidence of this horse's excellent self carriage.



Yes, yes, yes. If you have ever had the opportunity to ride a PRE in Spain, you'll know that the head carriage and "uphill" comes naturally.

For the record, I loooooved taking dressage lessons in Spain; I only tolerate it in the States. Don't forget the Spanish were key to the invention of the light horse in Europe (via the Moors) — the Lipazanner, Hanoverian, and Trakhaner all trace back to Spain.

princessfluffybritches
Oct. 8, 2010, 08:51 PM
Maybe freestyles should be judged by dressage judges, and some other group that would judge purely on artistic content. Then add the scores.

mbm
Oct. 9, 2010, 12:09 AM
Of course newbies have to pay their dues, is called becoming good with experience.
It is tough to be as good and as polished as someone that has been there, been doing that for long time, really.;)

Even the fastest horse in the world won't run at it's best in a race until it has learned to run in races.

It will be very, very rare that someone new will get to the top and beat them all at their game, not because he is new at it and an unknown, but because he won't be as good yet at it.

In dressage, judges, as has been explained time and again, score by more than if a horse's tail goes around a few times more or less, really.:p

it is a well known and well publicized fact that for someone to "do well" in international competition (not sure about national) you must show in front of the judges for a certain amount of time before you can even hope to be scored fairly - this is called "being seen" .

that is not paying your dues by gaining experience, nor is that judging what is in front of you that day.

the fact that this is openly discussed and no one blinks and eye is very very telling.

ps. a tail that isnt softly swaying shows resistance - how much depends on various factors. but it is always resistance - a horse cant be soft in the back with the tail helicoptering or being snapped side to side etc.

i find it amazing that nowadays people thing that as long as it is in sync with the steps it is okay! good lord!

mbm
Oct. 9, 2010, 12:12 AM
Maybe freestyles should be judged by dressage judges, and some other group that would judge purely on artistic content. Then add the scores.

great idea!

FatCatFarm
Oct. 10, 2010, 12:38 AM
What a fabuloso performance! Very good and active piaffe and canter pirouettes which you don't often see and the horse was happy and light. The way a dressage performance ought to be. Well done!

nmazteca
Oct. 10, 2010, 09:54 AM
Loved watching it!

Calamber
Oct. 12, 2010, 07:53 AM
That is, of course, in YOUR opinion.:yes:
Your qualifications to be a judge at the international level are...?;)

Here we go again. Why is this relevant? Are there not severe differences amongst those who care about dressage and the art form as regarding the beauty of the form and the treatment of the animal? Why can this person not add to the discussion?

Why is your defense a personal attack? Why not address the ideas?

Calamber
Oct. 12, 2010, 07:56 AM
it is a well known and well publicized fact that for someone to "do well" in international competition (not sure about national) you must show in front of the judges for a certain amount of time before you can even hope to be scored fairly - this is called "being seen" .

that is not paying your dues by gaining experience, nor is that judging what is in front of you that day.

the fact that this is openly discussed and no one blinks and eye is very very telling.

ps. a tail that isnt softly swaying shows resistance - how much depends on various factors. but it is always resistance - a horse cant be soft in the back with the tail helicoptering or being snapped side to side etc.

i find it amazing that nowadays people thing that as long as it is in sync with the steps it is okay! good lord!

Which is why I thought Blue Hors Matinee's "exciting" dance that went viral was so sad. She looked like she was positively lashing her tail most of the time.

Calamber
Oct. 12, 2010, 08:12 AM
I agree, I was seeing some gives following some collected movements.

What I remember most vividly about this ride is the rider rolling his wrists and lifting the hands to accentuate and life Fuego into the piaffe. I already said it in some way but this is more to the point, "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". Because dressage lacks a certain kind of joie de vivre should not mean that the dressage freestyle which allows a bit of improvisation should award those that are electric and joyful but just plain wrong. No, I would not want to go to a concert, pay good money and hear some ham handed pianist play Chopin or Beethoven with "joy and electricity". Precision does not mean mechanical or robotic.