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View Full Version : Huge disappointment with pony



twhs
Oct. 2, 2010, 11:32 AM
After much time spent searching & emailing, we found what we thought was the perfect medium pony with an admirable record in h/j shows, did trail rides calmly, was able to be cared for completely by a 10 year old, and could handle a 1/2 turnout all of which were important to us at our farm in Virginia. It took almost a week to arrange horse/dog/house care and get all the feed packets for our other horses organized, clothes packed, riding gear packed, hotel reservations & PPE arranged with a vet in their area that our vet knew and respected. Can I tell you -- this was a huge deal. The weekend before -- when we wanted to go -- the pony wasn't available because their trainer wasn't available -- owner then wrote in email how we would have first right of refusal -- (Pony was at the present lessee's barn and not with the owner.) so we then arranged to go this past week which was better because granddaughter had a 1/2 day off from school which gave us an additional day. Finally, we set off through wind and rain and were an hour into our drive when the trainer called to say that the pony had been sold to someone who had come into the barn and offered to buy without the PPE. Seller could not be reached by phone until we got home. Alot of confusion but bottom line is that the pony sold and we are disappointed. To her credit, the grandchild never shed a tear. No tantrums. Her biggest disappointment is that she won't be able to spend 3 nights in hotels! We tell ourselves that there is a better pony out there; we just have to find it. But it's still hard.

I tell myself all of this is business. It is actually. But it still hurts. I suppose with the "right of first refusal" written in an email I could press for that -- and yes, it is business -- but it soured me enough not to want to put the time and effort to get there or to hand over a check to someone who would do that to us.

Sorry so long. Had to vent and that helps. Especially to those who might have been there and done that. If any have suggestions on what to do next, I'd appreciate that. I've already tried wine and chocolate. I'm practically living on Bigeq and the hunter/jumper exchange & virginia equestrian and dreamhorse. I have so many barns saved in my favorite folder I don't even know how to access the good ones. I'm trying hard not to be distraught. It's only a pony, right?

Haalter
Oct. 2, 2010, 11:51 AM
I totally understand, and I'm sure a lot of other folks here will too!

I still remember, a few decades ago, when I was just striking out on my own as a pro and found an "investment horse". Went out to ride it, just what I was looking for, and offered to put a deposit down pending PPE. Seller said no need for deposit, horse is yours, and I scheduled PPE for 2 days later, vet's earliest available appointment. I was sure it was a done deal - seller even took me out to dinner and gave me the horse's baby photos! Well, the morning of the PPE, I got a phone call from owner that she had sold the horse to a buyer who didn't want a PPE and offered more than the asking price. I was so bummed - I told her I would have paid the same, if only I'd been given the chance. I still remember this all these years later...hopefully, OP, you'll find such a perfect pony that your experience won't be a big deal...but it still sucks at the moment, I know!

merrygoround
Oct. 2, 2010, 12:29 PM
But whatever you do--Don't give up the PPE.

llsc
Oct. 2, 2010, 02:52 PM
This may have been a blessing in disguise. You could have spent all that money traveling to see a pony and then spend a fortune on a PPE only to have to pass on the pony when problems came up in the vetting. I did that just this past summer. Spent a ton of time and money on vetting a very young pony that had a number of problems that I'm now sure the owner knew about, but neglected to mention and let me spend the money vetting anyway. :(

My Advice to you from one who has lots of ponies: from now on, don't buy anything that can't come to your farm on trial for a few weeks. It's the only way I'll buy one. It's amazing the holes you can find once they are home with only your kid riding them. It will cost you the same money to ship one in as it will to travel and stay in a hotel for a few days. I don't know what kind of money you are looking to spend, but have you seen this pony? She looks to be very nice from her video...(I know nothing about her, except this video, but if I were looking for a pony, I'd make a call.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7qsEsdalv0

A trainer I use to break my ponies has a few really good mediums for sale and she is by far the most honest person I have ever dealt with. Give her a call.

Lauren Newmeyer (732) 664-4274 cell

www.hunterpony.net

Call her cell. She's in KY at WEG this week, but I'm sure she'd be happy to talk to you and set up a time for you to look at her ponies. I would take any of her ponies at a moments notice. They are that sweet and safe. She also has an amazing large who I know would fit the bill of what you described above. His name is Gryffin.

CHT
Oct. 2, 2010, 03:43 PM
I am also thinking blessing in disguise. For the owner to go back on their word just to avoid the possible PPE makes me think they were not confident it would pass. Either that or the agent and the owner were not in complete communication so one didn't know what the other was offering.

Beethoven
Oct. 2, 2010, 03:53 PM
I am also thinking blessing in disguise. For the owner to go back on their word just to avoid the possible PPE makes me think they were not confident it would pass. Either that or the agent and the owner were not in complete communication so one didn't know what the other was offering.


I agree. I would suspect that it wouldn't of passed the PPE.

x
Oct. 2, 2010, 05:09 PM
Leave a deposit. I will not hold a horse without a deposit...but with a deposit I will hold it pending PPE, even if someone else comes in. If you can't make up your mind, and go home, then call me to tell me that you've arranged a PPE, but I have no deposit, I won't guarantee that I'll hold said horse...I get quite annoyed by buyers doing this, hence why I won't hold without a deposit. It ties up my time, and I find that buyers that leave a deposit tend to be serious...I've had buyers do a PPE, horse pass the PPE, and then the buyer disappears off the face of the earth. A deposit tends to stop that from happening (although I have had them disappear with a deposit, too, on occasion). The deposit is refundable if the horse fails to pass the vet for the buyers purpose...but isn't refundable if the buyer just disappears. Therefore, the deposit works to assure me that the buyer is serious and won't leave me hanging, and if the buyer does just disappear, I am compensated for the time that the horse is off the market. Interestingly, I have had some buyers try to negotiate price with me, and use the fact that they are NOT doing a PPE to ask for a better price. I will often do this simply because the PPE is a pain in the neck for me, and if the buyer is willing to take the risk without one, then it is worth it to knock a little off the price.

saddleup
Oct. 2, 2010, 05:54 PM
I can handle all sorts of disappointments and dealing with people who don't do what they say they'll do....but....when my child is involved, and in this case, disappointed and saddened by adults not doing what they say they'll do....well, it makes me fighting mad.

Yes, it's probably for the best, and you will find another pony, but you sound like someone who had dotted all the "I's" and crossed the "T's", and to have it fall apart after you were so conscientious -- well, it just stinks.

I'm sorry.

quicksilverponies
Oct. 2, 2010, 06:39 PM
Don't lose heart, even though it is depressing for things like that to happen. I had my sights on a large prospect recently that was on the market for months. When I finally was in a position to make an offer, it had sold just days prior. But, luckily, another even better one came along and I am in the process of getting it here to the farm in the next few weeks. You will find the right pony in the right situation with time and effort. There are quite a few nice mediums for sale at the moment. I have a couple as do others I know. Good luck in your search!

iloverain
Oct. 2, 2010, 06:42 PM
been there, done that! they waited until after i tried the horse to tell me had sold!! the nerve!

twhs
Oct. 2, 2010, 11:10 PM
Thank you for all your comments, sympathy, understanding. Mostly by sharing your stories. Yes, I had all the I's dotted and T's crossed. I had been ultra-thorough. Even so, when the trainer called to say the pony had been sold, I still wondered if there was something I had done or forgotten to do. Now, reading your comments, I feel better knowing that what happened was going to happen no matter what. And yes, what made me angry was that my granddaughter was hurt in the process. We'll find another -- one better!!! Right now, I need a little time to bounce back.

For those of you sending videos, contact names, pony suggestions -- a huge hug and thank you! Hopefully you COTHer's wil keep 'em coming! Your PM's are most appreciated.

Somermist
Oct. 2, 2010, 11:22 PM
I am also thinking blessing in disguise. For the owner to go back on their word just to avoid the possible PPE makes me think they were not confident it would pass. Either that or the agent and the owner were not in complete communication so one didn't know what the other was offering.
Agreed, you will find the right one. Good luck.:)

twhs
Oct. 2, 2010, 11:45 PM
llsc, I don't understand about shipping in a pony. You ask the sellers to ship a pony to you without your ever seeing it except through videos? When the pony doesn't work out, it goes back? How great a distance are we talking about? Are many sellers of really nice ponies agreeable to do this?

Does everyone agree about a trial period? Even when there's a good distance involved? Even if you have a 2 week trial period and the pony doesn't work out, then you still have to arrange shipping and that can take some time.

HorseMomof3
Oct. 3, 2010, 01:10 AM
After searching all summer for a nice horse for a 15yr old client, we've had our share of disappointments. Your granddaughter is probably too young to understand the valuable lessons of disappointment, but my 15 year old got a very clear picture of it! After several failed ppe's, and lots of hours on the computer, making phone calls, viewing videos & thousands of miles in the car; we FINALLY found a wonderful horse! He is much better than we could ever expect. The kid is so happy, she even went back through all her "trial" videos and can't believe what a super nice horse she ended up with! Like others have said, it was probably a blessing on this one particular pony. Just think of the money you just saved on gas, hotel, food and PPE! I sure the right pony is going to show up soon, he's just not on your radar yet!!!

Miss Motivation
Oct. 3, 2010, 09:41 AM
I bought a horse at a show one time, paid in full, wasn't even going to have a PPE, which was dumb, but the horse was all that and a box of chocolate and had been around for a long time, yada yada.

Came halter in hand next day to get MY horse and its trainer handed me my (very large by my standards) check back and said "Sorry, we decided to sell it to someone in the barn."

I'm still not over it!

ALthough that trainer has certainly fallen from the limelight since then which they heartily deserve. :)

alliekat
Oct. 3, 2010, 09:51 AM
I bought a horse at a show one time, paid in full, wasn't even going to have a PPE, which was dumb, but the horse was all that and a box of chocolate and had been around for a long time, yada yada.

Came halter in hand next day to get MY horse and its trainer handed me my (very large by my standards) check back and said "Sorry, we decided to sell it to someone in the barn."

I'm still not over it!

ALthough that trainer has certainly fallen from the limelight since then which they heartily deserve. :)

Did you have a bill of sale done when you handed them a check. Once money has exchanged hands isn't it a done deal? I think that may have crossed a legal boundary or two.

bizbachfan
Oct. 3, 2010, 10:20 AM
To OP, as far as trials go I was helping two different people look for horses over the last year or so and found many people won't allow for any kind of trial at all and even ones that did allowed only for a short time, (few days.) One did allow an extended trial with a check for full amount in hand. Turns out horse was not at all what they described and was sent back before the two week trial was over. Buyer was out the PPE and transport to and from (was about 4 plus hours away) but better than to be stuck with the wrong horse.

tamarak_equestrian
Oct. 3, 2010, 03:13 PM
I'm usually on the other end of your situation. People go all the way to vetting or negotiating lease/sale terms with me and then change their mind at the last minute and I'm SOL and missed out on other potential buyers/leasers who were interested because I said we had a deal pending. I don't feel right having people continue to try the horse/pony when I have a sale or lease pending, because I don't want to lead people on that the horse/pony is available if it's not, but I don't want to get screwed over either. Hard call to make sometimes.


I'm practically living on Bigeq and the hunter/jumper exchange & virginia equestrian and dreamhorse. I have so many barns saved in my favorite folder I don't even know how to access the good ones. I'm trying hard not to be distraught. It's only a pony, right?
I think you and I are two peas in a pod lol.

SnicklefritzG
Oct. 3, 2010, 03:52 PM
Finding a good horse/pony feels a lot like looking for a house or trying to "vet" a significant other. You often have to wade through a lot of junk and experience a lot of heartache before finding the right one. However with that experience comes the knowledge that helps you find the right thing when you see it.

llsc
Oct. 3, 2010, 04:04 PM
llsc, I don't understand about shipping in a pony. You ask the sellers to ship a pony to you without your ever seeing it except through videos? When the pony doesn't work out, it goes back? How great a distance are we talking about? Are many sellers of really nice ponies agreeable to do this?

Does everyone agree about a trial period? Even when there's a good distance involved? Even if you have a 2 week trial period and the pony doesn't work out, then you still have to arrange shipping and that can take some time.

If you go an try a pony on it's home turf, you don't know how it is at strange jumps and in the living and riding situation you have at home. What was a doll in a familiar environment handled by professional grooms on a daily basis, may be completely different when a 10 year old is handling it for grooming and turnout.

I generally ask for 2 weeks trial right up front, if they aren't willing, then I don't continue. Most selllers of older been there done that ponies will let you take them on trial. You pay shipping both ways, or go pick up the pony. You give them a check for the purchase price and carry insurance on the pony for the trial period. If the pony doesn't work out, then you send it back and cancel your check or pick it up when you drop off the pony. Within the two weeks you have to do the PPE, not after the trial period.

I have shipped in ponies from far away and they didn't work out, so I shipped them back. I figure it would have cost as much to travel with the kid to see the pony as it did to ship it both ways by the time I paid for a hotel and flights. I know if it's going to do all the things I need it to do, because it's here on my farm for the trial and I know it hasn't had any prep in the time I had it.

I also always draw blood at the PPE and have it held for two months, by my vet, incase the pony drastically changes after a month. I can run the blood and send the pony back if there is a problem. I always let the owner know I am going to pull blood for testing and I have never had a problem. I make sure it's in the sales contract that if the blood comes back positive for any illegal substances I get my money back.

SnicklefritzG
Oct. 3, 2010, 04:09 PM
^^^ I think the above is a great approach. I've heard of situations where unscrupulous owners will give a horse/pony some sedatives to make it appear calmer than it normally is.

What is probably more common though are how the animal handles the local area. I've known a couple of people who bought horses who were used to being outside most of the day and just couldn't handle the lack of turnout in their new area. That is all stuff you won't really know until a trial period.

alliekat
Oct. 3, 2010, 04:35 PM
Finding a good horse/pony feels a lot like looking for a house or trying to "vet" a significant other. You often have to wade through a lot of junk and experience a lot of heartache before finding the right one. However with that experience comes the knowledge that helps you find the right thing when you see it.

and the ability to appreciate it that much more :)

Starting-Point-Stables
Oct. 3, 2010, 04:50 PM
Boy oh boy, I've been on both sides of this fence.

A few months ago I found a pony, contacted its owners and they offered a meeting that evening because they had a birthday party that afternoon. GREAT - told them it would take me about an hour to get there.

I pulled into the drive way and they daughter (probably about 10) comes out and says "Oh my daddy sold him today". WHAT?

I was so angry I got out of the car and approached the adult talking on their cell phone the other side of the drive way and questioned them "yeah, he sold him this afternoon, sorry".

I got into my car and called the phone number in the ad and left a voice message "Thanks for wasting my time".

----------

I also went with a client to look at a horse for a tween-ager that was a timid rider and needed a really solid citizen. The parents had initial contact with the seller but I also had communications in email stating this child had some fear issues, that she was very small for her age, that we needed a VERY saintly horse - and that athletic abilities or past kudos would not trump SAINTLY.

Drove a state away only to find that I had a hard time half-halting this horse (very hard in the mouth). He even spooked and darted off once.

-------

I put down a $2K deposit on a $10K 3yo pony pending a pre purchase. Xrays showed bone spurs on both knees - seller was furious and claimed the vet I used was a track vet and didn't know anything about ponies. (Uh, isn't bone bone? And it was so clear even I saw them.). Then she wanted a written note from the vet saying the pony FAILED (pff well failed for WHAT? He was 3 and barely broke). She refused to give me back my deposit and I had to get really ugly about it (had my own personal vet write her a letter, had to threaten to take her to court etc). A month later I got a check from her.

The kicker is I wasn't going to have Xrays done initially but he was a total jack @ss a the pre-purchase, he wouldn't jog in hand or allow the vet ample time to do a flex on any given leg. So we went with Xrays just to be sure. Good thing we did. ;-)

My biggest lessons learned there were 1. Get a clear understanding of when the deposit check is going to be deposited and under what conditions it would be returned 2. Make sure the horse is manageable for a pre-purchase exam! :)

------

And of course I've had a sale horse of mine vetted and never heard from the pending buyer (I had to contact them a few days later) - and for a $3,000horse I couldn't imagine what was so wrong with him (he cleared the next ppe his buyer had done just a few weeks later with intended use being limited distance endurance). Who knows.

All I know is I don't want to try to make a living out of buying and selling horses. :)

brightskyfarm
Oct. 3, 2010, 05:25 PM
My Advice to you from one who has lots of ponies: from now on, don't buy anything that can't come to your farm on trial for a few weeks. .

On the other side of the issue. I would NEVER let a horse go to a strangers farm......... without my supervision ... wait..
even that doesnt work always... I do offer folks to come ride, everyday if they like...but my horses do not leave my possession until paid for.
why? too many times they come back injured? mis-treated, mis-handled, over worked... as if the potential buyer is looking for a breaking point ..afterall, they have no obligtion in this unless an insurance policy is also in effect..
however, if I feel an insurance policy is needed, there is MY red flag to not continue.
Just the view from the other side.

equinedriver
Oct. 3, 2010, 05:50 PM
I see that the video link early on in the thread is a Rollingwoods pony. I know the Rollingwoods "girls" and they are absolutely great. Their ponies temperaments are fabulous. The L You Are pony also posted there is really cute too.

SnicklefritzG
Oct. 3, 2010, 06:01 PM
^^^ I can see why you would not want the horse to leave your possession until it was paid for and ownership had transferred. I had a friend at one barn who leased out her former YR horse (after she had bought a new one) and had it returned lame from being overworked.

However, I am wondering why you would feel that "if an insurance policy is needed" that you would see that as a red flag. I could see a potential buyer offering to pay for part of the insurance or get their own short term policy (if that's even possible) to cover everyone in the event of a freak accident or other issue that happened while the horse was off your property but before ownership had transferred. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just curious why you would take it that far.

brightskyfarm
Oct. 3, 2010, 06:11 PM
I have a friend who ........... did the insurance policy thing.. the potential buyers felt that since the horse was *covered*...it didnt matter how they treated it .. and returned it lame, from overuse...and felt that *she got her money either way* was a satisfactory conclusion .

Well... it wasnt for her..and it wouldnt be for me.

111
Oct. 3, 2010, 08:37 PM
My quote about buying & selling hores:

Nothing is over until the check clears! LOL!

SnicklefritzG
Oct. 3, 2010, 08:42 PM
^^^ Kind of like buying a house. Don't breathe until closing and everything has been signed off.

llsc
Oct. 3, 2010, 09:52 PM
On the other side of the issue. I would NEVER let a horse go to a strangers farm......... without my supervision ... wait..
even that doesnt work always... I do offer folks to come ride, everyday if they like...but my horses do not leave my possession until paid for.
why? too many times they come back injured? mis-treated, mis-handled, over worked... as if the potential buyer is looking for a breaking point ..afterall, they have no obligtion in this unless an insurance policy is also in effect..
however, if I feel an insurance policy is needed, there is MY red flag to not continue.
Just the view from the other side.

On an older packer I'd have no problem sending it out on trial. I don't send young ones out on trial, for exactly the reasons you said, "people want to find their breaking point".

I don't think most 10 year olds are going to do damage to a been there, done that pony in 2 weeks. Not saying it can't happen, but if you are looking for a great pony for a kid and you find it, most people will take care not to break it. They are very hard to find.

Really good trial insurance is always a must. I'd never want to be stuck paying for a horse that got hurt and I didn't yet own it. For that matter, really good insurance is a must after you own it too. In my experience the well insured ones don't usually get hurt. They only attempt to kill themselves and fail, so that the vet bills are astronomical, after you drop the insurance.

RioTex
Oct. 4, 2010, 12:17 PM
I don't know what kind of money you are looking to spend, but have you seen this pony? She looks to be very nice from her video...(I know nothing about her, except this video, but if I were looking for a pony, I'd make a call.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7qsEsdalv0


I remember this one from the Welsh shows years ago. She was a good minded pony back then, well worth a look.

Eye in the Sky
Oct. 4, 2010, 07:34 PM
I completely understand. I was excited as a 15 year old to go pick out the horse I wanted for my 16th birthday. I had saved money for years and this was my first horse. I had chosen the one I wanted and on the morning of my birthday, I awoke very excited to go pick up my new horse.

I went downstairs and saw a look on my dad's face that I will never forget - and heard him curse into the phone - something I had never heard my dad do - I had no idea how bad it was, but I knew I was not getting the horse.

I later learned the trainer (a very well-known trainer) had sold the horse the day before to a man in NYC - the guy offered him more money and the trainer never called to ask us for a counter offer. My dad was livid.

I don't think I can recall a time where my emotions went from being so excited and happy, to so sad and angry within seconds. The good news is, we later found the horse of my dreams and he was AWESOME! I was so much better off with him than the other horse, but it still stung that this trainer did that to us.

We considered a lawsuit for breech of contract, but it was not necessary. The farm folded within months. It's very sad, but what was once one of the most extravagant horse farms in NC is now a housing development. But, I was not the only person that trainer treated like that. Apparently he did this often, and someone with deep pockets got very angry.

It's easy to say "another will come along", but even so, the frustration and disappointment are still there. I do hope for a happy ending, though. :) My guess is, the one she does end up will be the right one.

bizbachfan
Oct. 7, 2010, 10:55 AM
I can never understand why common sense and courtesy can't be the standard for these type of things. Today in the age of cell phones there should be no reason why someone doesn't call you before you arrive to tell you the horse was already sold. Deposits should mean something. I prefer trials, but if one is not allowed then you have to decide if it worth the risk.

OP, let us know when you do find the perfect pony!

brightskyfarm
Oct. 7, 2010, 11:18 AM
Sadly all that courtesy has gone by the wayside.

I just sent an email (wont give a phone number) to an interested party to set an appt for this weekend. They said they couldnt give any times too far in advance...being Thursday, well, I figured its close enough .
I get the email back saying they bought something else.. ! last weekend! with an email inbetween to me for saving a *date*.... ? GEEZE.. maybe they figured it would fail the vetting? and had a back up?...who knows...who cares..

Working with todays buyers, a seller (and in reverse for the buyers too) has to work hard to stay head of things .. I have a nifty little TopTenList...
that starts with
1. Are you in the same state? :lol::lol:

With a sense of humor, selling horses can be fun...
and when things seem so impossible ... a nice long trail ride is in order.
and boy, do I ride a lot!:yes::yes:

judybigredpony
Oct. 7, 2010, 11:56 AM
Leave a deposit. I will not hold a horse without a deposit...but with a deposit I will hold it pending PPE, even if someone else comes in. If you can't make up your mind, and go home, then call me to tell me that you've arranged a PPE, but I have no deposit, I won't guarantee that I'll hold said horse...I get quite annoyed by buyers doing this, hence why I won't hold without a deposit. It ties up my time, and I find that buyers that leave a deposit tend to be serious...I've had buyers do a PPE, horse pass the PPE, and then the buyer disappears off the face of the earth. A deposit tends to stop that from happening (although I have had them disappear with a deposit, too, on occasion). The deposit is refundable if the horse fails to pass the vet for the buyers purpose...but isn't refundable if the buyer just disappears. Therefore, the deposit works to assure me that the buyer is serious and won't leave me hanging, and if the buyer does just disappear, I am compensated for the time that the horse is off the market. Interestingly, I have had some buyers try to negotiate price with me, and use the fact that they are NOT doing a PPE to ask for a better price. I will often do this simply because the PPE is a pain in the neck for me, and if the buyer is willing to take the risk without one, then it is worth it to knock a little off the price.

WOW Finally someone who shares my sentiments exactly.

I had a buyer try a horse 2 or 3X's then do a PPE but would not give me a deposit would not sign an agreement of sale..and when vet found a minor and I mean minor ding they wanted several opinions. I gave then 24 hours and very carefully and clearly told buyer and Vet without a signed agreement of sale or a deposit I would continue to try and sell horse while they waffled...upshot I did sell the horse 3 days later no PPE.
They were livid because now they had changed their minds and mad because I didn't call them????
To this day 6 months later they still haven't bought a horse................

Cloverbarley
Oct. 7, 2010, 12:38 PM
For any horses that am interested in where I can't get away to see for a few days then I always do a bank transfer deposit to hold the horse for me till I can travel to view it. All sellers have honoured this, as have I when I've been selling horses and people aren't able to get here that day. I wouldn't expect someone just to hold onto the horse until I get there without giving them something in return. I sell a lot of horses every year and I know fine well what many buyers are like and a lot of the ones who appear to be the most interested are the ones who don't even bother to show up at the arranged viewing.

Midge
Oct. 7, 2010, 04:41 PM
I won't send one out on trial, I don't care what it is. A been there, done that pony can die in a trailer accident just the same as a green one.

Once it's in the trailer, it belongs to you.

What I will do is give you a week to return it in the same condition it left in.