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Tiffani B
Oct. 2, 2010, 06:33 AM
I'm working on a paper for school about the acceptance of Saddlebreds in non-traditional disciplines. Your honest response to the poll question would be most appreciated (I have identical polls in different forums, so please only answer one). Thank you!

Meaning - when you're shopping, if you see a Saddlebred advertised that fits your criteria, would you go look at it, or would you immediately dismiss it solely due to the breed, reputation, bias, your past exposure to Saddlebreds, etc.

I realize there are always "maybes" but I purposely left that response OFF of this poll. Simply yes or no - would you consider a Saddlebred.

partlycloudy
Oct. 2, 2010, 07:32 AM
But I'm a dressage person, so I'm sure that makes all the difference. Not so sure the hunter/jumper crowd will feel the same way.
Mine has beautiful gaits,a willing attitude and is a sweetheart as well as being a beautiful liver chestnut (my favourite colour)
Perhaps you'd get more response in off course with people from other disciplines, or were you thinking for jumping only? Mine does the trot pole , but I haven't tried jumping him yet.

Midge
Oct. 2, 2010, 08:05 AM
I voted no because I am assuming a horse advertised as a Saddlebred fits the criteria of the breed. Especially if it was going to be a hunter, it's highly unlikely it will fit the hunter parameters.

If I was looking for a horse to trail ride, no breed would be out.

supershorty628
Oct. 2, 2010, 08:08 AM
No. For a hunter or an eq horse, no way. I've seen a Saddlebred jump and go around a course, and I would never consider getting one for that purpose.

Adelita
Oct. 2, 2010, 08:11 AM
I had a Saddlebred. She was non-typical, looked and moved like a small warmblood....although we did dressage. She had the best brain and personality ever! I grew up showing Saddlebreds so I love their heart and personality.

Heck yes, if the ASB physically fit what I was looking for!

shawneeAcres
Oct. 2, 2010, 08:17 AM
I do not think that a saddlebred would fit into a hunter career. So therefore I vote "no" since you asked this in hunter/jumper forum. I think you would do a better paper tho to ask your question in a different light, i.e. for WHAT "non-traditional" discipline(s) WOULD you consider a saddlebred and for what would you NOT consider a saddlebred. I might consider one for dressage, as I have seen some very nice "old style" saddlebreds in dressage. It is possible that I would consider one for a jumper since there are a few that have ecelled in that sport. I canot think of even one that has excelled as a hunter. Also I doubt I would "seek out" a saddlebred for those disciplines, but sometimes a talented one might pop up and would not discount it for dressage.

equidae
Oct. 2, 2010, 08:22 AM
They won't win the hack nowadays, but i've seen some Saddlebreds that were foxhunters and did their jobs very well.

Didn't they used to be popular back in the 50's and 60's for jumping/foxhunting disciplines? (I heard that they were, but let me know if I am mistaken since I was around back then;) My first horse was an olddd Saddlebred X ex-foxhunter who was foaled in the 1960's who toted me around for years on trails and over small fences in the ring. He was old but in amazinggg shape for his age and I'll never find another horse quite like him!

Hauwse
Oct. 2, 2010, 08:28 AM
It would depend on entirely on the individual horse. The problem would be exposing a Saddlebred to me, and I think, in general, saddlebred crosses would be more likely to have success in our disciplines.

Back in the day they used to cross all types of breeds, and I can think of a few with Saddlebred blood that were exceptional horses.

mrsbradbury
Oct. 2, 2010, 08:36 AM
I voted no, based on suitability for todays hunter or eq ring. Also they way they canter does not suit them to jump very large fences. However, I think they are suited for dressage and I have one as a sale horse for the dressage arena, and he leaves for his new home Tuesday. I found jumping training to be very very hard for him. He melted into dressage work.

SnicklefritzG
Oct. 2, 2010, 08:51 AM
^^^+100

Before I went to college, I worked and rode at a farm where one of the boarders used a saddlebred for dressage. He was a really phenomenal horse, doing up to 4th level. His conformation seemed more suited towards that than jumping.


Edit: I didn't vote because the answer is "it depends". Although if you want me to vote, I'd probably choose "no" only because I'd want a horse that was more versatile. Some breeds have a reputation at being pretty good for a variety of disciplines while others are suited to a few highly specialized areas.

Eye in the Sky
Oct. 2, 2010, 09:58 AM
No. For a hunter, jumper, or eq horse, no way. I've seen a Saddlebred jump and go around a course, and I would never consider getting one for that purpose.

And I said "yes" due to the ASB I used to ride that was one of the cleanest jumpers I've ever ridden. He was unknown to most as an ASB, but he had "failed" to be even a 3 gaiter and was not even built like one - pretty much looked like a TB. He was hot, but this made him very responsive. It is because of him that I will always "consider" an ASB if they can do the job. ;)

iloverain
Oct. 2, 2010, 10:06 AM
as a jumper, sure. i've had my butt handed to me by saddlebreds in the jumper ring!
however, as far as equitation and hunters go, probably not.

jump4me
Oct. 2, 2010, 11:36 AM
As long as the horse fits the bill to do the job I want it to do, no breed is out.
voted yes.

danceronice
Oct. 2, 2010, 12:14 PM
Yes, but as I wouldn't take a warmblood unless someone gave it to me for free and own a TB, I'm probably not especially representative.

Tiffani B
Oct. 2, 2010, 03:10 PM
I do not think that a saddlebred would fit into a hunter career. So therefore I vote "no" since you asked this in hunter/jumper forum. I think you would do a better paper tho to ask your question in a different light, i.e. for WHAT "non-traditional" discipline(s) WOULD you consider a saddlebred and for what would you NOT consider a saddlebred. I might consider one for dressage, as I have seen some very nice "old style" saddlebreds in dressage. It is possible that I would consider one for a jumper since there are a few that have ecelled in that sport. I canot think of even one that has excelled as a hunter. Also I doubt I would "seek out" a saddlebred for those disciplines, but sometimes a talented one might pop up and would not discount it for dressage.

I actually asked this question in four forums - Hunt/Jump, Dresssage, Eventing and Endurance/Trail. Please respond appropriately in whatever forum suits your main riding style. Thanks!

dani0303
Oct. 2, 2010, 03:35 PM
As long as it suits my needs, I don't care what breed it is. However I've met very few saddlebreds that would be appropriate for hunters. Jumpers, sure.

x
Oct. 2, 2010, 04:16 PM
Yes, definately for equitation and for jumpers, as I've had Saddlebreds that have done well in those disciplines. For hunters, it would depend on the Saddlebred; I know of one that is nice enough that I think it would do well in the hunter ring, the ones I had were better in the equitation or jumper rings--very broke, responsive, but didn't really have the style of the hunter.

Sing Mia Song
Oct. 2, 2010, 05:12 PM
When I think "Saddlebred," I think of a upright shoulder and a lot of knee action--not desirable traits in a hunter or jumper (while movement doesn't matter in the jumper, he still needs to be able to roll that shoulder and cover ground efficiently). So, on that basis, no.

However, where I to be scrolling through a Dreamhorse search and I saw one advertised accompanied by a picture demonstrating that the horse can do the job well, I'd click on it, if for nothing more than curiosity's sake. If all other criteria were right (age, location, pictures that show the horse consistently performing well), I would consider going to see it.

So, as a raw prospect, no way. But someone has already taught it to jump and it does it well, then it falls into the category of "a good horse is a good horse."

kateh
Oct. 2, 2010, 06:26 PM
I answered yes partly because I won't be able to afford any kind of A show horse for like 15 years. I'd be shopping for something I can learn on and do like, puddle jumpers with. If I was searching for an A hunter, I probably wouldn't pay attention to a saddlebred unless it was already proven.

Good2Go
Oct. 2, 2010, 07:12 PM
No. For a hunter, jumper, or eq horse, no way. I've seen a Saddlebred jump and go around a course, and I would never consider getting one for that purpose.

I don't mean to call you out or anything, but you're saying no because you've seen one saddlebred jump?

Just seems like a lot of judgement to put on a breed based off of one example.

supershorty628
Oct. 2, 2010, 07:27 PM
I don't mean to call you out or anything, but you're saying no because you've seen one saddlebred jump?

Just seems like a lot of judgement to put on a breed based off of one example.

Call me out all you want. I wouldn't go look at one unless it had already proven itself. That's just my opinion. I'm not saying they can't jump, nor that they shouldn't jump, just that I personally wouldn't consider one for the purpose of hunters or eq. If it had a good record, then I would -- I'm a firm believer in a good horse being a good horse. :)

doublesstable
Oct. 2, 2010, 07:46 PM
The key word to me is "consider"... I voted YES... because a good horse not only comes in any color but in any breed... IMHO. You just never know and it's ALWAYS worth "considering"....

Haalter
Oct. 2, 2010, 08:34 PM
I don't mean to call you out or anything, but you're saying no because you've seen one saddlebred jump?
Funny, because I'm saying YES on the basis of one saddlebred :lol: I'm sure I've probably seen other saddlebreds jump over the years without knowing their breed, but the one that makes me say yes was a phenomenal jumper and also did the big eq quite well. I wouldn't have known she was a saddlebred had I not known her owner. I actually saw a horse recently at a show that was a dead ringer for this mare, same confo/movement/jump, and I asked the owner about her breeding, sure she was a saddlebred - but no, she was Dutch.

The saddlebred mare I knew was *definitely* not a hunter though...but plenty of WBs and TBs aren't hunters either. I haven't yet seen a saddlebred that would be appropriate for the hunters, but that doesn't mean there isn't one out there. If I could find one like that jumper mare I knew, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Good2Go
Oct. 2, 2010, 08:50 PM
Call me out all you want. I wouldn't go look at one unless it had already proven itself. That's just my opinion. I'm not saying they can't jump, nor that they shouldn't jump, just that I personally wouldn't consider one for the purpose of hunters or eq. If it had a good record, then I would -- I'm a firm believer in a good horse being a good horse. :)

Couldn't agree with you more :)

Brooke
Oct. 2, 2010, 08:51 PM
I voted yes. I rode several good saddlebred jumpers in the early 60's. Back then the courses were about 4'6" - maybe a tiny bit bigger, so I don't know if they could handle the big courses now, but they were very nice to work with. Wouldn't get one for hunters or eq though. Maybe for dressage. Especially with the way Totilas moves and wins.

Alterrain
Oct. 2, 2010, 09:23 PM
I don't mean to call you out or anything, but you're saying no because you've seen one saddlebred jump?



Not to call YOU out or anything, can you give me ONE example of a succesful hunter/ jumper/ eq horse that was a saddlebred? In the last twenty years, that we have heard of. Just one.

voted no, obviously.

Arelle
Oct. 2, 2010, 09:30 PM
Voted no. Not because I don't think the right one could adequately do the job, but because I don't like the look of the breed. It is purely aesthetic on my part, but when I shop for a horse I expect to spend a reasonable amount of money and I want the total package - which includes "nice to look at".

Now, if I were searching for someone else - I would totally consider an ASB *if* it could get the job done. But, I'd probably go into the transaction with a tougher eye than if I were looking at a horse more traditionally built for the hunters.

Good2Go
Oct. 2, 2010, 09:33 PM
Not to call YOU out or anything, can you give me ONE example of a succesful hunter/ jumper/ eq horse that was a saddlebred? In the last twenty years, that we have heard of. Just one.

voted no, obviously.

Why the hostility? I wasn't being rude in my original post, but it seems to have struck a nerve with you so I apologize...

tyedyecommando
Oct. 2, 2010, 11:10 PM
I doubt I would consider one. I would not go out of my way to look at one, nor would I expect to pay "real money" for one. It would also be difficult for resale. A "traditional" breed would be more desirable.

crazyhorses
Oct. 3, 2010, 12:18 AM
Not to call YOU out or anything, can you give me ONE example of a succesful hunter/ jumper/ eq horse that was a saddlebred? In the last twenty years, that we have heard of. Just one.

voted no, obviously.

I can't remember the name, but I have seen some pictures of a Saddlebred that was winning a high jump class. I WANT to say it was Susie Hutchingson, but I'm not totally sure... Man that horse could jump!

I voted yes. I've worked with some very odd combinations of breeds and seen some odd combos go around in the ring. Just like ANY horse, do they always place? No. My WB got beat my one, and well... you know... she's a WB.... she shouldn't have lost to him! :winkgrin:


ETA: Hahah totally kidding about the high jump thing... it was a Standardbred... I think. hmm

doublesstable
Oct. 3, 2010, 01:50 AM
Out of interest I found they did and do jump the saddlebreds....

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/horses/saddlebred/index.htm

And Wikipedia has this to say:

The American Saddlebred, formerly known as the American Saddle Horse, is a breed of horse that was developed in Kentucky by plantation owners. Today, in the horse show world, they are most commonly seen under saddle in Saddle seat style riding, and in various types of driving, including pleasure driving and various types of fine harness competition. They are also occasionally seen in other disciplines including dressage, hunter/jumper and western riding. They also are popular parade mounts and used for trail riding due to their comfortable gait and steady temperament.

fordtraktor
Oct. 3, 2010, 05:35 AM
I used to ride at an A barn and we had several SB jumpers that did well up to around 4'. If that is all I wanted to do I would consider one because they are quick in the air and get their legs out of the way easily. Great Children's Jumpers.

I have never seen one that would do well in the hunters or eq, though. So OP, I didn't vote, because "hunt/jump" is really not a category with one answer.

CarrieK
Oct. 3, 2010, 06:07 AM
Not only have I considered a Saddlebred, and I have a Saddlebred. So, I'm biased. ;)

I didn't consider a Saddlebred until I saw a documentary with William Shatner. I had no interest--and still have no interest--in tooling around a ring up-down-up-down. So I never really looked into Saddlebreds because I didn't think they were capable of what I wanted to do. I had no idea that a Saddlebred could totally rock dressage. I had no idea they went western and had no idea that they could work cattle and had cow sense.

That documentary opened my eyes, and then I did some research on my own. I had no idea that such a small number of Saddlebreds racked--I thought the whole point of being a Saddlebred was the rack! (I do plan on getting a 5 gaited before I'm done)

I learned how few make the elite upper levels--just like how few hunters and jumpers and eventers and dressage horses make the elite upper levels. So I looked around, and since I had no Olympic dreams, for my money and for what I want to do, I've got a Saddlebred that can do it.

Tiffani B
Oct. 3, 2010, 10:09 AM
CarrieK, you have a PM.

headsupheelsdown
Oct. 3, 2010, 10:30 AM
For hunters, maybe not, because they are not in fashion. For jumpers, sure. I have known of many used as eventers, dressage horses, trail horses, hunters and jumpers. In the beginnings of showjumping as a sport (and the military) many were saddlebreds.

Very few saddlebreds are suited to the highest (5 gaited) classes of their breed. A lot don't gait. Most are just w/t/c. I think a lot of saddlebreds are out there being called tb's.

War Admiral
Oct. 3, 2010, 10:55 AM
Awww c'mon, Alterrain, tell me this horse (http://saddlebredsarefun.com/Images/SB%20Jump/Hurricane%20Celebrity%20trimmed.jpg) couldn't do the hunters and win! :D And tell me you WOULDN'T be asking for some money if it were yours! :lol:

As Tiffani knows, I also own one - purpose bought to be a sport horse. :yes: He's just a baby - verdict is still out on what his career is going to be. I bought him to be a lower-level cross-train between carriage driving (for me, since I no longer ride) and "something involving jumping" (for him, since he loffs it and jumps really well). I'm now resigned that he is NOT going to make a hunter, but jumper and eq. horse are still on the table for him as putative careers, as well as eventing. We'll all have to wait and see. :)

PNWjumper
Oct. 3, 2010, 12:33 PM
I voted "no," but I'm not sure that's an accurate summation of my feelings about the breed.

For starters, I buy horses to aim for the Grand Prix ring. I've had a lot of "underdogs" over the years (my full QH grand prix horse, my failed-out-of-the-short-stirrup-ring and not-built-for-it WB GP horse, my current OTTB moving into the GPs). But over time I've decided that my goal is to make the move up the ranks as easily as possible, which doesn't include fighting against conformation. Not to say that a SB is ALWAYS built wrong, but to find one that could be a GP prospect would be AT LEAST as hard as finding another not-bred-for-it breed for that goal.

And my other "job" over the last decade or so has been buying prospects, putting some training on them, and selling them. I also wouldn't buy one for that purpose BECAUSE of the bias against them in the show ring. I don't want to have to convince someone's trainer that the horse is worth taking a look at despite the "not in style" breed.

I love the statement that Bobthehorse said in the eventing poll:
"But then I am kind of jaded in this respect because I cant stand the whole underdog mentality - the reality is that some breeds are better suited than others for real reasons other than some giant conspiracy against them."

My sentiment has always been that ANY horse can jump around a 3'6" course with the right care, conditioning, and riding (with very few exceptions). So I don't think there's anything prohibiting a SB from being a H/J. And if I was looking for a horse to do less than the GPs for a friend perhaps, I wouldn't even think twice about considering a SB that's shown some talent for jumping. But for my own personal goals, I want to stack the deck as much as possible in my own favor. And as I've started my holsteiner colt this year I've realized how different the mentality can be from a horse truly bred to do what I'm asking it to do.

So I guess the short version of my post is that I wouldn't consider a SB for myself (as a GP prospect), but I absolutely wouldn't reject the breed out of the box. And as others have said a nice prospect is a nice prospect.

PNWjumper
Oct. 3, 2010, 12:36 PM
I think a lot of saddlebreds are out there being called tb's.

This is a good point. And I would say that it applies to all of the "out of favor" breeds.

I've known a lot of QHs, solid appaloosas, and arab crosses that were called American Warmbloods, Candian Warmbloods, or even an entirely different breed. I would imagine that the same goes for SBs.

War Admiral
Oct. 3, 2010, 12:46 PM
This is a good point. And I would say that it applies to all of the "out of favor" breeds.

I've known a lot of QHs, solid appaloosas, and arab crosses that were called American Warmbloods, Candian Warmbloods, or even an entirely different breed. I would imagine that the same goes for SBs.

Oh no doubt! I loff funning with people who ask my boy's breed when he's out and about and calling him my little "South African Warmblood". :D Which is actually true - his sire was a South African Saddlebred and b/c there's such a large Dutch community there, he has a smidge of DWB in his pedigree way back. (He's in my profile pic for anyone curious.)

Trakehner
Oct. 3, 2010, 07:17 PM
The best and toughest field hunter I ever had was a Saddlebred mare. She was tireless and had amazing courage. Belle would jump anything I asked of her (that old once a mare gives you her heart you'll never have a more wonderful horse).

The master "borrowed" her several times when his horse lost a shoe...he always came back amazed at her heart and willingness to go.

There is a bias against saddlebreds (most of them aren't 5-gaited, I know mine was a WTC girl). They aren't deadheads or dumbloods, they're a lot like TBs...many modern riders don't have the brains or desire to earn a TBs heart and mind...they're aren't riders, they're passengers. Saddlebreds and TBs don't want a passenger, they want a partner...I think too many of todays riders prefer to be a passenger. Pity.

Foxtrot
Oct. 3, 2010, 08:17 PM
For me it's about heart. Every horse taken on his or her own measure. That would be a yes, I'd consider it.

CarrieK
Oct. 4, 2010, 03:07 AM
CarrieK, you have a PM.

w00t!!

Sleepy
Oct. 4, 2010, 08:36 AM
The best and toughest field hunter I ever had was a Saddlebred mare. She was tireless and had amazing courage. Belle would jump anything I asked of her (that old once a mare gives you her heart you'll never have a more wonderful horse).

The master "borrowed" her several times when his horse lost a shoe...he always came back amazed at her heart and willingness to go.

There is a bias against saddlebreds (most of them aren't 5-gaited, I know mine was a WTC girl). They aren't deadheads or dumbloods, they're a lot like TBs...many modern riders don't have the brains or desire to earn a TBs heart and mind...they're aren't riders, they're passengers. Saddlebreds and TBs don't want a passenger, they want a partner...I think too many of todays riders prefer to be a passenger. Pity.

You said a mouthful there. Bravest horse I ever had was an ASB. Now that I don't show any more, nor have any desire to do so, I am looking for a new one to trail ride and take on paces. I would think that they would make the perfect hunt horse, myself. The heart and stamina of a TB and the sanity that allows them to be "on" and tolerate the madness of the saddleseat show ring. Plus they are extremely intelligent and people oriented.

And yes, I expect there are a lot of them out there masquerading as TBs or WBs. :lol: I use to board with one who the owner insisted was a WB. Thing was, I knew this horse from birth. Sire was TB and dam was ASB.

saddLLP
Oct. 4, 2010, 09:35 AM
It is interesting how many people would not choose a Saddlebred for jumping - America's warmblood. We need to do some work to get them out there and show how they excel in this discipline. I use my Saddlebreds for Endurance racing, generally Arabians are the horse of choice. We are often asked if ours are half-Saddlebred because we do so well: my husband usually crosses the finish line first and depending on whether he can get his horse's heart rate down fast enough, takes first through fifth. My horse is not a fast but we try for top ten. Out of four races this year, we took Best Condition twice. I am sure most people in my sport would say they would not choose a Saddlebred because they don't realize what great endurance horses they make. P.S. in his first race, my boy took BC over 101 horses.....:)

caffeinated
Oct. 4, 2010, 09:50 AM
I love Saddlebreds so I would definitely consider one. And I saw one in the Good Hands finals a few years back who could give any good equitation horse a run for its money.

My grandfather used to train Saddlebreds and did everything with them - they jumped, they rode english/western, and they drove. They had amazing minds and were incredibly tolerant horses.

Since I have a soft spot for them, I would definitely consider one if I ran across one in a search. But then, I'm not really into high level showing - I like hunters but would only do it on the local level. I would like to get more into eventing too... I'm also one of those freaks who is perfectly happy to try a new discipline if the horse can't do what I want it to, if I like the horse enough :)

magnolia73
Oct. 4, 2010, 10:46 AM
I would buy a saddlebred I really liked for jumpers (if the horse jumped well) but never with the intention of resale.

I would buy a saddlebred if I just wanted a pleasure horse and really liked the saddlebred.

But for my intentions, local hunters, there are better choices than saddlebreds that are probably less expensive than saddlebreds. I would think your average OTTB is cheaper than a saddlebred.

C.J.
Oct. 4, 2010, 10:51 AM
I think a lot of saddlebreds are out there being called tb's.

Totally agree. There is so much TB blood in Saddlebreds that it is a natural assumption when looking at them.

Until the Warmblood trend runs its course, that is the look that will be popular in the Hunter market. Saddlebreds (and even TB's to a lesser extent) that are being marketed as hunters will have to be exceptional to sell well.

hntrjmprpro45
Oct. 4, 2010, 11:02 AM
I certainly wouldn't consider one for upper level hunters or jumpers but I guess I would consider it for the lower levels. The saddlebreds and saddlebred crosses that I have seen typically do well in the lower divisions when temperament and suitability are bigger factors than movement (or at least weighed heavily). To me, their movement and jumping style are not my personal taste and therefore I would not buy one for the upper levels even if it could get the job done. Like someone said before, when you are looking at paying big money on an upper level competitor, personal taste does become a factor.

As far as breeds go, there are always standout individuals that don't necessarily conform to breed standards. I had a quarter horse pony that could jump better than a lot of warmbloods BUT that doesn't mean that I look for quarter horse ponies when I shop for grand prix prospects. I like to go with the odds when it comes to horse shopping which means I buy predominantly TBs and warmbloods. If the price was right and the horse was a standout competitor I would consider it for show jumping but not hunters.

tamarak_equestrian
Oct. 4, 2010, 02:15 PM
I voted no, because 95% of the time I'd be looking for an A circuit hunter, but if I was looking for 1m jumper, then I might consider one. I think it would be viewed as rather unconventional on my circuit, but I've always been one who marches to their own drum. A lot of what I do is unconventional to people on my circuit lol.

Midge
Oct. 4, 2010, 03:10 PM
Awww c'mon, Alterrain, tell me this horse (http://saddlebredsarefun.com/Images/SB%20Jump/Hurricane%20Celebrity%20trimmed.jpg) couldn't do the hunters and win! :D And tell me you WOULDN'T be asking for some money if it were yours! :lol:


If we are going to base it all off that picture no, she wouldn't be the winner, generally, and she wouldn't be expensive.

ASBJumper
Oct. 4, 2010, 06:58 PM
Midge - I would agree that Hurricane Celebrity, the bay in the above pic, was not a good example of a Hunter type. He is/was a very good Jumper, though.

THIS guy, however, IS a Hunter. Form doesn't get much more textbook than this! http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2352657440046770113pnzJZe

He is sitting in 3rd place in the final standings in the Junior Hunters (out of 20 horses with points) on the Quebec AA Rated circuit (our "Silver" circuit). He is not the hack winner, but he gets a piece of it usually and he places VERY well over fences, every time. Owner RAVES about his temperament and soundness. ;)

ASBJumper
Oct. 4, 2010, 10:06 PM
.... oh, and the above gelding's stunning full sister (palomino sabino, 5 yrs old and lightly started) is for sale for a whopping $1500.

It's truly unreal the kind of amazing horseflesh you can get for a pittance if you open your mind to Saddlebreds. ;)

onelanerode
Oct. 5, 2010, 06:44 AM
I voted no. I've seen probably a half-dozen Saddlebreds doing various things (dressage, hunters, eventing) and the only one I would have bought for myself was in his 20s and very sensible. The rest seemed hot and sensitive, and most of them demonstrated the typical higher head carriage of the breed. As a whole, they're just not my thing, but I know several people who have or ride Saddlebreds and LOVE them.

But a good horse is a good horse, and I wouldn't completely rule them out as a breed because I don't think six horses is a good representative sample. :)

Hocus Focus
Oct. 5, 2010, 06:54 AM
I remember back in the 70's when I was a young pup and working as a groom for James Elder. He had a saddlebred he showed in the open jumpers. There was a competition to be held at the farm and Jimmy was schooling him over some fences on the derby course. A rather ominous pile of logs set up as an in and out. first element the log pile followed by a single portable fence. Relaxation was always the biggest issue with this horse. Getting him calm and rideable.

Jimmy brings him around to the first element. He jumps huge over the logs. A bit freaked out, he lands and proceeds to canter on the spot. Jimmy in his cowboy style lets out a howl and gets into him and he takes a short stride and jumps out clean. First time I have eer seen a horse do five strides in an in and out.

Without meaning to be breed biased, the blood and sensitivity of the saddlebred might be the concerns regarding performance. I too have seen a champion hunter that was a purebred standardbred, so rare unusual cases can happen. I would never say never, but I would say, the typical saddlebred might be a challenge.

Have fun.

CarrieK
Oct. 5, 2010, 10:01 AM
But that's just it--if you look further into the breed, you'll find that the "typical" Saddlebred depends upon where you look. If you look at a show barn, the typical Saddlebred might--might--be one thing. If you look somewhere else, the typical Saddlebred might cross a river without flicking an ear (that would be my Saddlebred).

What I've found is that there really is no typical.

fordtraktor
Oct. 5, 2010, 10:29 AM
I agree with CarrieK on that point. I've worked with some very tolerant ASBs. They have to be to tolerate the things done to them on the breed circuit, frankly.

I think after Totilas, ASBs are going to come in style for dressage. You can get your very own Totilas for 1/100 the price!

ClassyRide
Oct. 5, 2010, 03:28 PM
I voted "yes." The fact is that Saddlebreds can be just as diverse as any other breed - you just have to find the ones that are willing and able to do the job. It's true that most Saddlebreds tend to come out with a conformation not suited to Jumpers, but there are Sport Saddlebred breeders out there - and sometimes even show breeders get a foal who's built for sport and won't suit the job the breeder wanted it for.

I've seen some extremely capable Saddlebred jumpers, and I've seen a couple out in the jumper ring that shouldn't have been there - it all depends on the individual horse. ;)

Alterrain
Oct. 8, 2010, 10:53 AM
He is sitting in 3rd place in the final standings in the Junior Hunters (out of 20 horses with points) on the Quebec AA Rated circuit (our "Silver" circuit).

While that pic is GORGEOUS, I asked for a succesful saddlebred in the hunters that we have heard of. And while granted, you didn't give me his name, I doubt I have.

And war admiral- again, good jumper, but NOT (if you can base if off one pic) a winning hunter. And probably not even close to "expensive."

LONESTAR
Oct. 14, 2010, 05:53 PM
I would say yes. Especially as jumpers. The way their shoulders are designed really allows them to lift their legs out of the way. And their hind ends are designed to "drive" so that combination makes them really freaky careful. The best hunter I ever rode was a NSH. Big round horse with a gorgeous gallop and fabulous through the front end.

ASBJumper
Oct. 19, 2010, 12:12 PM
While that pic is GORGEOUS, I asked for a succesful saddlebred in the hunters that we have heard of. And while granted, you didn't give me his name, I doubt I have.


LOL, of course you haven't! Are you in Quebec?! Have you honestly heard of every single "successful" Hunter competing in Canada at the moment? Honestly, what a silly thing to say. You wanted an example of a successful Saddlebred Hunter, i gave you one. His jumping form is textbook and he has 3 lovely, flowing gaits.

And for every cute, fancy TB hunter you see in the ring, there are *thousands* more who are not Hunters, not even close. Same with WBs. The fact is, there are way, WAY less Saddlebreds being bred every year - a *fraction* of the number of WBs and TBs bred worldwide. And most breeders have no clue what to do with the non-show type ASBs so they sell them for insanely cheap at auction or to the Amish. THAT is why you don't see many of them in the H/J ring. It has very, very little to do with type or ability. It's a numbers issue.

DMK
Oct. 19, 2010, 12:50 PM
I voted no because I am assuming a horse advertised as a Saddlebred fits the criteria of the breed. Especially if it was going to be a hunter, it's highly unlikely it will fit the hunter parameters.

Exactly. If it's a good example of the standard set by the breed, then it's not likely to meet the standards set by our discipline. Chances are if it was an already competing successful hunter or jumper and it happened to be a saddlebred, you wouldn't know it by the ad, because the sellers would not be drawing that tidbit to your attention until you a) asked or b) asked several times.

drmgncolor
Oct. 19, 2010, 12:59 PM
This is difficult for me. My heart wants to answer yes, but my brain tells me to answer no. So I can't vote in this category, even though I own and love a wonderful ASB Sporthorse mare. We've been partners for 14 years and started out in the Saddle Seat arena.

Color and me in 1999 at age 3. (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2885162&l=a9115cee67&id=578147844)

Color and me in 2010 at age 14.

(http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7170571&l=1b3cf8c8b2&id=578147844) And another. (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7170580&l=a0a034022c&id=578147844)

(Please no critique. I know what our faults are and my trainer and I are working on them.)

Do I think ASB's have the potential to make great hunter/jumpers? No. Hunter horses, they are not.

Do I think ASB's have the potential to make great jumpers. Yes. Hands down.

Eye in the Sky
Oct. 19, 2010, 01:17 PM
I love Saddlebreds so I would definitely consider one. And I saw one in the Good Hands finals a few years back who could give any good equitation horse a run for its money.

My grandfather used to train Saddlebreds and did everything with them - they jumped, they rode english/western, and they drove. They had amazing minds and were incredibly tolerant horses.

Since I have a soft spot for them, I would definitely consider one if I ran across one in a search. But then, I'm not really into high level showing - I like hunters but would only do it on the local level. I would like to get more into eventing too... I'm also one of those freaks who is perfectly happy to try a new discipline if the horse can't do what I want it to, if I like the horse enough :)

I'm right there with ya, girl! If I like the horse enough, I'll go wherever they want to go :) I followed my first horse, an Arabian, around like a puppy dog. He was an incredible partner - an amazing jumper - never have I ridden a more brave and fun horse!

The SB I used to ride that did the jumpers was so much fun as well. He was hot, but I like mine hot. He was not for lower-level riders, so when my trainer allowed you to ride him, you knew you had reached a very big goal! He was my "heart" horse for many years.;)

Tiffani B
Oct. 19, 2010, 02:14 PM
Exactly. If it's a good example of the standard set by the breed, then it's not likely to meet the standards set by our discipline. Chances are if it was an already competing successful hunter or jumper and it happened to be a saddlebred, you wouldn't know it by the ad, because the sellers would not be drawing that tidbit to your attention until you a) asked or b) asked several times.

Actually, if the horse fits the standard of the breed as defined in the ASHA description of the ideal Saddlebred, it would not be a highly competitive Saddle Seat horse! Now isn't that ironic... :lol: The breed specs call for things that make the Saddlebred a good, athletic, all around using horse - obviously written back when that's what the breed WAS.

The long, upright neck with tons of hinges that can be carried like a chesspiece in your lap, the extravagent motion off both ends that results in a horse going nowhere fast (but looking awfully purty doing it), the lack of extension, the weak loin, the dropped back - those are all attributes today's BREEDERS like to see. But they aren't written down anywhere as the "ideal."

If you look at a properly conformed ASB, you might be surprised that it's actually a Saddlebred.

DMK
Oct. 19, 2010, 02:51 PM
Yes, I used the "standard set by the breed" more on purpose than by accident (as opposed to "standard established by rules"). Regardless of written standards, actual goals (and achievements) of breeders get rewarded in the ring regardless what is written down in the dusty recesses of the rules. But it doesn't matter what is written if judges reward something different. It becomes the standard to achieve by those seeking commercial success. Nobody gets a free pass on that, appendix and halter QHs have strayed from the rule standard as well, but the effective result is you probably wouldn't look at a halter bred QH for a cutting horse prospect either!

drmgncolor
Oct. 19, 2010, 02:52 PM
If you look at a properly conformed ASB, you might be surprised that it's actually a Saddlebred.

Mine must have horrible conformation then, because everyone guesses her breed correctly. ;):lol: But personally, compared to the peacocks in the ring today, I think she's totally different looking.

SmartAlex
Oct. 19, 2010, 03:07 PM
What Tiffani means is that the correct old type bloodlines look like thoroughbreds, standardbreds or warmbloods if they are stood up that way. I saw a couple of WEG jumpers that I thought "set his tail, and he could pass for one of the many ASBs making a level on the B circuit." She looks like she has nice conformation, but lacks the extreme long hingy neck that is winning right now. Just like my "reject" (http://chronicleofmyhorse.ning.com/photo/conformation-2?commentId=1971868%3AComment%3A140962&xg_source=activity) who came up two inches short in the neck department.

Just flipping through this fall's Tattersall's sale book, (http://www.tsetattersalls.com/Fall_2010_cat.pdf?promoid=BUIGO) some of the hingey necks are amazing. For example page 68, lot 90

Tiffani B
Oct. 19, 2010, 03:09 PM
Mine must have horrible conformation then, because everyone guesses her breed correctly. ;):lol: But personally, compared to the peacocks in the ring today, I think she's totally different looking.

The head, ears and eyes are usually a dead giveaway LOL!

SmartAlex, are you following me around today??? :cool:

SmartAlex
Oct. 19, 2010, 03:26 PM
The head, ears and eyes are usually a dead giveaway LOL!

SmartAlex, are you following me around today??? :cool:

LOL! Yeah, I guess so. not cyberstalking, just making my rounds. Pretty quiet day in Saddlebredland though.

drmgncolor
Oct. 19, 2010, 03:26 PM
What Tiffani means... <snip>

Oh I know completely understand what Tiffani is saying, I was just teasing. :) I actually commented to my trainer the other day about how high headed a lot of big jumpers are... as we were discussing why I needed to ride my horse differently than a typical "hunter."

I like your "reject" and have read some of his blog.

Yes, it's her short neck and lack of motion that wouldn't get her far in the Saddle Seat ring. Although some days out on the trail when she's hot, I would beg to differ. :)

Tiffani - her ears are always up, over every jump.

SmartAlex
Oct. 19, 2010, 03:40 PM
Yes, it's her short neck and lack of motion that wouldn't get her far in the Saddle Seat ring. Although some days out on the trail when she's hot, I would beg to differ. :)


I get that too. We'll be cruising along with a long level, ground covering stride one minute, then all of a sudden he'll "see something inspirational", like a leaf, and the next thing I know, the head is up, he's on the bit... knees popping over level and I feel like I'm coming down the ramp at L-ville. I just enjoy the moment and know my mellow hunter will be back in just a minute.

jas1317
Oct. 19, 2010, 03:46 PM
arabians generally have no place in the hunter world either. i however, had a full-bred (with papers) arabian large pony gelding that i showed in the large ponies on the a-circuit that qualified for devon, pony finals, and indoors.... you never know until you see the horse!

drmgncolor
Oct. 19, 2010, 03:47 PM
:lol: Ah, Smart Alex... That is all too familiar. I then am flooded with the comments of... "Oh how beautiful!" or "How do you make her do that?"
Yes, she is beautiful when she's trucking down the trail like it's green shavings, but I guarantee she is doing it all on her own. Want to try and sit that trot? I dare ya! :D

EquusHistoricus
Oct. 20, 2010, 10:00 AM
The first thing that struck me was the sad necessity to ask such a question. Is it not generally understood that there is nothing a Saddlebred can't do with more style, pizz-zazz and joy than any other breed? Whatever the 'top range' show people do is not relevant to the qualities of the breed. That wonderful neck carriage gives a superb ride; the oft mentioned low back is a rarity and can be the result of poor training; the power off both ends is something that can be utilised as the owner wishes. I have never encountered a Saddlebred yet that didn't go places with its gaits (whichever of the five you choose), leaving other breeds standing. Certainly they look[/B][/I] contained and can look as though they are more upward than forward, but this is an illusion. They cover the ground amazingly ... and can keep it up indefinitely. Why else would the World Champion in Endurance for decades be a pure Saddlebred?
For hunting (that is out in the country galloping after hounds) I would choose no other. They are sensible, intelligent, and though they look like about to explode very rarely do.
My only reservation in recommending a Saddlebred for any and every purpose would be for the horse himself. If you want to use him for dressage you have got to go against his conformation and lower that wonderful neck carriage - what a waste!
Don't misjudge him - America should be so so so proud of this breed!!!

PineTreeFarm
Oct. 20, 2010, 10:17 AM
I voted Yes because the Poll didn't split out Hunter/Jumper/Eq.

For a Hunter probably not because of conformation issues that impact way of moving.

For a Jumper or Eq horse as long as they can do the job why not?

Many years ago ASBxTB crosses were bred for hunters and jumpers.

I had one.He was not competitive as a Hunter but was a great Eq horse and an even better jumper winning in Junior , Preliminary and Open Jumper divisions.

Simbalism
Oct. 20, 2010, 10:25 AM
For the hunter discipline I voted no. I also have seen some Saddlebreds in dressage that did quite well.

findeight
Oct. 20, 2010, 12:55 PM
THAT is why you don't see many of them in the H/J ring. It has very, very little to do with type or ability. It's a numbers issue.

Well, Hunters are judged strictly on type and ability so...:confused:.

Nice horse in that photo though. Because it looks the right type and seems to have the ability.

But it is fair to ask if there are any ASBs showing USEF rated Hunters-preferably over 3'+ within the last 20 years.

Jumpers at 1m+? I bet there are. Many similarities in that front end to WBs and if the ASB has the hip to match?

Anyway, had to vote no because they generally don't suit in the Hunters and it was not split out of Jumpers.

HobbyHorse101
Oct. 20, 2010, 10:22 PM
I had a saddlebred and while she made a great dressage/western pleasure horse she would never make it as a hunter/eq horse. The way saddlebreds are bred they are not built to move long and low like most hunters, they move up and out. Makin a career as a hunter/eq horse hard.

Tiffani B
Oct. 20, 2010, 11:37 PM
The first thing that struck me was the sad necessity to ask such a question. Is it not generally understood that there is nothing a Saddlebred can't do with more style, pizz-zazz and joy than any other breed? Whatever the 'top range' show people do is not relevant to the qualities of the breed. That wonderful neck carriage gives a superb ride; the oft mentioned low back is a rarity and can be the result of poor training; the power off both ends is something that can be utilised as the owner wishes. I have never encountered a Saddlebred yet that didn't go places with its gaits (whichever of the five you choose), leaving other breeds standing. Certainly they look[/b][/i] contained and can look as though they are more upward than forward, but this is an illusion. They cover the ground amazingly ... and can keep it up indefinitely. Why else would the World Champion in Endurance for decades be a pure Saddlebred?
For hunting (that is out in the country galloping after hounds) I would choose no other. They are sensible, intelligent, and though they look like about to explode very rarely do.
My only reservation in recommending a Saddlebred for any and every purpose would be for the horse himself. If you want to use him for dressage you have got to go against his conformation and lower that wonderful neck carriage - what a waste!
Don't misjudge him - America should be so so so proud of this breed!!!

I'm assuming this is Lonnie, given that this post matches up to comments he's made here and there over the years...

I have to disagree with your point that using a Saddlebred for Dressage goes against his conformation.... wouldn't you select a horse who's conformation naturally works for Dressage, if that's the direction you're aiming him? Not to mention, the majority of Saddlebreds I've seen have necks that would be wonderful for Dressage. It's a rare Saddlebred indeed with a giraffe neck, even though those are the prized horses. Heck, even my giraffe would do just fine in Dressage. After all, the discipline is about taking the horse to the level he is capable. And the ASBs with a normal, albeit hingy neck, that can go up into a chesspiece headset, can also be very comfortably trained to go in a Dressage "headset." After all, the further along they get in their training, the higher their poll is expected to get.

And you might want to check your rhetoric about the "world champion in endurance" being a Saddlebred. Actual endurance folks beg to differ (check out my poll in the Trail Riding/Endurance forum) - the horse I believe you're referring to is a champion Competitive Trail horse, not an Endurance horse.

As always, your loyalty to the breed is wonderful! Hopefully as time goes on, we'll win more people over as they begin to see the amount of athletic versatility this breed has.

EquusHistoricus
Oct. 21, 2010, 08:32 AM
No, not Lonnie, but thanks for compliments.
Whatever you call it, stamina, good sense and toughness are a basic requirement of distance riding or endurance.
Re the dressage aspect, yes the ethic of dressage is to produce the horse to his very best potential but the sport of dressage seems to demand a certain 'fitting with fashion'. The tests have been designed in a way that is suitable for Warmbloods and it is difficult for any other type to excel if they don't move in the style required, though they can perform all the manouevres. Arabs would be a case in point, and, oddly enoughly, the Iberian breeds. It is only just recently that the sport of dressage has lowered its blinkers a little - to the good of all. The Saddlebred's problem is that it appears to be too narrow, its neck carriage starts off too advanced so there are penalties at the lower levels. Personally I don't see these as a problem, but for the died-in-the-wool dressage competitor they add to the burden of 'fitting in'. For promoting the breed, which is another ethic completely, it would be good if more were out there showing how a dressage test can be performed!!!! Let's face it a breed that can rack at fantastic speed with a high carriage is a breed to be reckoned with for ability to place its feet, sharp response, and a keen mind in addition to its look-at-me attractiveness. Yes, they are a gift to the sport really if only the judges could be persuaded that there is more than one way to do a piaffe!!! - if you get my meaning. It would be a shame if in trying to compete at the disciplines of other breeds, he started to become like them. A tragedy in fact.

Midge
Oct. 21, 2010, 10:34 AM
Is it not generally understood that there is nothing a Saddlebred can't do with more style, pizz-zazz and joy than any other breed?

No. Rash generalization much?

Defying Logic
Oct. 21, 2010, 12:14 PM
I have a saddlebred everyone thinks is a thoroughbred, to the point they doubt her breed when they hear it. A vet once asked, when watching her trot, "So is she off the track?" and one A-level trainer, who knew I had a saddlebred and had not seen her said, "Wait, I thought you had a saddlebred, who is this?" She is a hunter, moves long and low with no knee action, and jumps well. She has the best personality and is normally fairly calm, but does have a hot streak. Whenever I look for another horse, I won't go looking for a saddlebred, but I would be thrilled to find another just like her.

pwrpfflynn
Oct. 22, 2010, 07:58 PM
I have a Arab/Saddlebred and he has won big hack classes with all TB's & Qtr's he looks & jumps more like a Warmblood but you better hold on or that big round jump will dump your butt in the dirt. Also most forgot he is very competitive in Dressage as well.

SquishTheBunny
Oct. 24, 2010, 10:42 AM
http://www.saddlebredsarefun.com/Images/SB%20Jump/cass%20over%20oxer2.jpg

http://www.saddlebredsarefun.com/Images/SB%20Jump/Pinto%20Mare%20jump%20640.JPG

http://www.saddlebredsarefun.com/Images/SB%20Jump/Tazredcoop.jpg

These are abotu the best I could find that somewhat resemble hunters. So, generally no....but I wouldnt necessarily rule out a saddlebred cross.

In the jumpers however - sure,why not...its all about the individual! The 6 foot puissace horse was a saddlebred!