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View Full Version : Difference between GM Mastership Clinic and EAP?



hellerkm
Oct. 1, 2010, 07:33 AM
I have been reading the threads on both of the programs, I can see from the posts that they are two DIFFERENT programs, but can anyone tell me how you get accepted into each program and what the reason is for each program and what the differences are? It seems to me that the goal is very similar, create knowledgeable young riders who are given the opportunity to expand their knowledge of not only riding but equine care as well.
To me both programs seem VERY similar. What am I missing?

meupatdoes
Oct. 1, 2010, 08:29 AM
I think for the GM one the top juniors in the country get invited.

Personally I have little respect for this ridiculous "clinic."
It is basically kids at the very top of the sport getting told about stable management like it is rocket science and promptly forgetting to blanket their clipped horses when it is 30 degrees in Florida.

If those kids really want to learn horsemanship they can just as easily get up a little earlier in the morning and ask the grooms where they need help. You know, EVERY DAY not five ones out of the year.

No reason for GM to sit there and make a huge clinic; Jorge and Pedro can teach them just as much without all of this fanfare.

KnickerB
Oct. 1, 2010, 09:13 AM
John Madden wrote this for the Chronicle after the GHM Horsemasterhip Session last January...

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/we%E2%80%99re-working-hard-fill-void-our-system

MIKES MCS
Oct. 1, 2010, 11:13 AM
It's nice to see the top and most expensive professionals in this Country donating their time and services to the top most well financed juniors in the country. But then again it's not possible for those who are financially challenged to reach the top anyway so why bother with them. The sad part about this program is these riders do have access to the best already, So how come the BEST aren’t already incorporating these lessons into their own program???? Funny thing many of the kids at the bottom of the food chain already know these things , it’s how they grew up, with a pair of reins in one hand and a pitch fork in the other. So I suppose a clinic like this would be a joke to a kid who already can pull a shoe, treat a bow, and bring a rescue back from near death and turn it into a successful hunter or what ever, The thing they don’t have and could really use is access to these top trainers who so graciously donate their time to this program for a week for free. I know, I know, why should they, when it basically wastes their time.

hellerkm
Oct. 1, 2010, 11:43 AM
So far no one has answered the basic questions I asked, all anyone has done is spout off snarky remarks. I have read tons of threads on COTH about the haves vs the have nots, I know how the horse world works, the more money you have the better your chances. I don't believe its impossible for a well trained lesser known kid to shine, they just have to WANT it that much more, there is NOTHING wrong with working hard for what you want. For me its about the passion and using every opportunity to make sure your doing what needs to be done. But I am well aware that the lesser know kid had a harder time, that's life.
I simply wanted to know about the process for being accepted/invited into the programs and if there were any significant differences between them.

joiedevie99
Oct. 1, 2010, 11:49 AM
The GM clinic invites go out to winners of equitation finals, and those at the top of the Bates equitation ranking list. I believe there are also discretionary spots (or only one?).

The EAP program is application based. Riders apply for a group at a level 1 clinic. There are different heights at the clinic, although I believe they did away with the lowest height division for this year. A few riders each level 1 move up to level 2 based upon their performance at the clinic, and same for level 2.

There are some general guidelines here: http://www.ushja.org/content/news/pr.aspx?id=578

hellerkm
Oct. 1, 2010, 12:12 PM
The GM clinic invites go out to winners of equitation finals, and those at the top of the Bates equitation ranking list. I believe there are also discretionary spots (or only one?).

The EAP program is application based. Riders apply for a group at a level 1 clinic. There are different heights at the clinic, although I believe they did away with the lowest height division for this year. A few riders each level 1 move up to level 2 based upon their performance at the clinic, and same for level 2.

There are some general guidelines here: http://www.ushja.org/content/news/pr.aspx?id=578

Now I get it!! thanks THAT was very helpful!!!

meupatdoes
Oct. 1, 2010, 01:53 PM
So far no one has answered the basic questions I asked, ...

Please re-read my first sentence.

I said that you get into the GM clinic by being one of the top juniors in the country and getting invited.
Further information on same is available in a link provided by another poster in the immediately subsequent post.

meupatdoes
Oct. 1, 2010, 01:58 PM
It's nice to see the top and most expensive professionals in this Country donating their time and services to the top most well financed juniors in the country. But then again it's not possible for those who are financially challenged to reach the top anyway so why bother with them. The sad part about this program is these riders do have access to the best already, So how come the BEST aren’t already incorporating these lessons into their own program???? Funny thing many of the kids at the bottom of the food chain already know these things , it’s how they grew up, with a pair of reins in one hand and a pitch fork in the other. So I suppose a clinic like this would be a joke to a kid who already can pull a shoe, treat a bow, and bring a rescue back from near death and turn it into a successful hunter or what ever, The thing they don’t have and could really use is access to these top trainers who so graciously donate their time to this program for a week for free. I know, I know, why should they, when it basically wastes their time.

I will never forget when "equestrian" magazine did a day in the life of Hilary Dobbs.

It was like,
8:30am wake up
9:00 go to sbux
9:30 arrive at show
9:31 polish boots
9:45 get on first horse
10:15 sit in stands watching for several hours allegedly reading ten pages of homework because I'm at HARVARD
1:15 go get shrimp salad from vendor
1:20 sit in stands watching for several more hours doing ten more pages of homework for HARVARD
7:15 polish boots
7:30 ride in jumper class
7:45 go home, whew! that was tough!

supershorty628
Oct. 1, 2010, 02:00 PM
I believe the individual gold medalist at Young Riders also gets invited to the GM clinic.

I do not know if that is only from the Young Rider category or if the Junior Rider champion is also invited.

supershorty628
Oct. 1, 2010, 02:04 PM
P.S. Meupatdoes, jealousy is really unbecoming. Hillary works her tail off to ride, compete internationally, and be a full time student. Given how much winning she does, I would say she's got it figured out pretty well.

Just because you might not have access to the opportunities that other people have does not give you the right to try and tear them down. :)

meupatdoes
Oct. 1, 2010, 02:07 PM
P.S. Meupatdoes, jealousy is really unbecoming. Hillary works her tail off to ride, compete internationally, and be a full time student. Given how much winning she does, I would say she's got it figured out pretty well.

Just because you might not have access to the opportunities that other people have does not give you the right to try and tear them down. :)

I'm sure she does.
In the face of all the work she is already doing, surely she can wake up before 8:30am and find ten minutes to tack one up.

And for the record, please don't make any assumptions about the opportunities I did or did not have access to.
I too rode with some of the top equitation trainers on the east coast as a junior, as well as an Olympian in dressage.
I too have an Ivy League education and managed to keep a sale horse business going and ride in Germany while I was earning it. So I for one can tack up a horse and get more than 50 pages read in 8 hours.

And additionally, I don't see how simply repeating the same schedule that she herself reported to the magazine is "tearing her down." I made no personal commentary; I simply summarized the schedule. If you feel her own self-reported schedule tears her down then maybe you should advise her not to self-report thusly to equestrian publications. It's not my fault the schedule is the way it is; after all, it's her schedule, not mine.
And why do you think her schedule "tears her down"? Are you under the impression it looks bad or something? :lol:

supershorty628
Oct. 1, 2010, 02:17 PM
Edit: Forget it.

hellerkm
Oct. 1, 2010, 02:29 PM
Just another friendly day on COTH LOL!!!
It seems to me that the EAP is at least a BIT more grassroots. At least there is a selection process ( even if it seems unbalanced at the higher levels to some). Either way it looks to me like you need to be very on top of your game to be accepted into either program.
Thanks to everyone who helped explain this all to me!!:)

meupatdoes
Oct. 1, 2010, 02:31 PM
I said might for a reason.

I was going to say more about the obvious chip on your shoulder, but I get the feeling it will go unheard, so why bother.

Carry on.

Well, if thinking that an elite young rider might actually tack up her own horse on a day that she woke up at 8:30 and spent several hours sitting around watching means I "have a chip on my shoulder" as if that is somehow an unreasonable opinion to hold, then that may be a reason horsemanship among young riders in this country is in a sad state.

If we are going to be having these "horsemastership clinics" for the elite young riders in this country then they might want to actually try practicing horsemanship at some time. You know, for kicks.

supershorty628
Oct. 1, 2010, 02:36 PM
Well, if thinking that an elite young rider might actually tack up her own horse on a day that she woke up at 8:30 and spent several hours sitting around watching means I "have a chip on my shoulder" as if that is somehow an unreasonable opinion to hold, then that may be a reason horsemanship among young riders in this country is in a sad state.

Hmm, or maybe it's because people sit around griping about that and DO NOTHING. Sort of like the people who complain that the latest generation of humans is pathetic... someone made them that way. ;)

I'm just curious, do you actually know any of the riders who have done the GM clinic?

meupatdoes
Oct. 1, 2010, 02:42 PM
Hmm, or maybe it's because people sit around griping about that and DO NOTHING. Sort of like the people who complain that the latest generation of humans is pathetic... someone made them that way. ;)

I'm just curious, do you actually know any of the riders who have done the GM clinic?

I aged out well before the GM clinic came to be.
But yes, in my day I knew several of the top juniors.
Seeing how I rode with them and went to school with them and all.

I don't really understand how that has anything to do with this topic.

I implied an elite young rider with time on her hands could tack up her own horse.
Your reply indicates you think this position is unreasonable and that I must have a chip on my shoulder.
The whole reason THEY ARE DOING the horsemastership clinic (allegedly, if it is not all self-promotion) is that they perceive many top riders have no idea about horsemanship. And your reply is I am unreasonable for thinking a top rider could actually tack up a horse! Hilarious!
Really what is the point of the horsemastership clinic if it is so unreasonable to think that in real life these riders could make time to tack up their own horses. "Well let's make a big show for the magazine but we all know when you leave and go back to school and competing internationally you won't have time for these details. Smile for the camera though!"
Congratulations for exactly making my point.

As for criticizing me for doing nothing...what would you like me to do?
Put up a youtube demonstration on tacking up? Happy to do it, if you think it'll help.

Thanatos
Oct. 1, 2010, 02:51 PM
Just another friendly day on COTH LOL!!!
It seems to me that the EAP is at least a BIT more grassroots. At least there is a selection process ( even if it seems unbalanced at the higher levels to some). Either way it looks to me like you need to be very on top of your game to be accepted into either program.
Thanks to everyone who helped explain this all to me!!:)

I agree with you that the EAP seems a little more realistic and down to earth and hopefully, theoretically, attracts a wider variety of riders.

P.S. I feel the need to apologise for the fact that your thread was hijacked. :( I hate that.

supershorty628
Oct. 1, 2010, 02:54 PM
Yes, sorry hellerkm!!!

MIKES MCS
Oct. 1, 2010, 03:00 PM
even the most elite trainers admit these riders are missing a big part of their education . This is why GM started this clinic. But why does this only go on 1 week a year instead of everyday in every barn? Just what do you think would happen if GM instituted a policy where beginner riders no matter what their economic status spent the first year in the barn and not in the ring ?? If they couldn't get on a horse or pony till they could properly take care of it. If they didn't want that education, if it is too beneath a millionaires daughter to learn to muck a stall or clean tack, then they could find another barn to ride in, it really is that simple. Want to ride with the best then you have to be serious and willing to learn the right way, not the easy way. Then until they can walk, trot, canter, properly they don't see a jump. If these rich kids can afford the best horses and the best trainers shouldn't they be able to get a complete education? There will always be plenty of trainers willing to teach a kid to ride a merry go round horse in a merry go round barn.. Until such time as those riders come up against not just a rich kid on a expensive horse, but a rich kid on an expensive horse that they knwo inside and out. What, is that too much information for a trainer to impart to a student?

meupatdoes
Oct. 1, 2010, 03:06 PM
even the most elite trainers admit these riders are missing a big part of their education . This is why GM started this clinic. But why does this only go on 1 week a year instead of everyday in every barn? Just what do you think would happen if GM instituted a policy where beginner riders no matter what their economic status spent the first year in the barn and not in the ring ?? If they couldn't get on a horse or pony till they could properly take care of it. If they didn't want that education, if it is too beneath a millionaires daughter to learn to muck a stall or clean tack, then they could find another barn to ride in, it really is that simple. Want to ride with the best then you have to be serious and willing to learn the right way, not the easy way. Then until they can walk, trot, canter, properly they don't see a jump. If these rich kids can afford the best horses and the best trainers shouldn't they be able to get a complete education? There will always be plenty of trainers willing to teach a kid to ride a merry go round horse in a merry go round barn.. Until such time as those riders come up against not just a rich kid on a expensive horse, but a rich kid on an expensive horse that they knwo inside and out. What, is that too much information for a trainer to impart to a student?

I wonder what the grooming and tackup policy is for the very trainers who are donating their time to the horsemastership clinic.

Like, back in the day everyone groomed and wrapped and braided their own at Hunterdon, right? And they all did their own day care (feeding/mucking/blanketing/putting in studs etc) at shows?
Because GM cares about horsemanship and he wants his riders to know it.

I'm sure those trainers generously donating their time don't even have a need for "day care" or "tack stall set up" charges on their rate sheets, haha. Before they even arrive at the show their customers have it all handled.

Andy Warhol
Oct. 1, 2010, 03:15 PM
This may help

http://www.ridingmagazine.com/riding_onlinemag/articles/2010_02/zazou.htm

meupatdoes
Oct. 1, 2010, 03:24 PM
This may help

http://www.ridingmagazine.com/riding_onlinemag/articles/2010_02/zazou.htm

Not one mention of anything other than riding in that entire article. From reading that you wouldn't know a horsemanship component was even involved.


Come on people, it is just too rich for words.

Andy Warhol
Oct. 1, 2010, 03:41 PM
Not sure what you want to know, Zazou takes care of her own horses at home (no groom) and was a working student for Missy Clark for several years. The best way to understand details of the program is to read about the program. Zazou didn't dwell on cleaning her stall or setting up a grooming stall because she could do it blindfolded. But she will be the first one to tell you that knowing how to do it correctly is key and that having a grand prix rider demonstrate the correct way to do it gives it credibility.

http://equisearch.com/equiwire_news/horsemastership_zazou_hoffman_010510/index1.aspx

meupatdoes
Oct. 1, 2010, 03:53 PM
Not sure what you want to know, Zazou takes care of her own horses at home (no groom) and was a working student for Missy Clark for several years. The best way to understand details of the program is to read about the program. Zazou didn't dwell on cleaning her stall or setting up a grooming stall because she could do it blindfolded. But she will be the first one to tell you that knowing how to do it correctly is key and that having a grand prix rider demonstrate the correct way to do it gives it credibility.

http://equisearch.com/equiwire_news/horsemastership_zazou_hoffman_010510/index1.aspx

I just think it is ironic that this is supposed to be primarily a horsemanship clinic, but you wouldn't know it from that article because she didn't "dwell" on that aspect.

Or even mention it.

That has nothing to do with whether or not she takes care of her own horses at home, and I think it's awesome that she does. And I was aware that she was a working student for Missy as well, so that is not news to me. Good for her!

MIKES MCS
Oct. 1, 2010, 04:03 PM
I do think one of the last legitimate ways to learn is to be a working student. If you can survive that you will learn, because a lot of time you are the one working side by side with the blacksmith, grooms and vets, your often the one feeding early AM and lunging, riding everything and anything and putting in 26 hour days. Thing is from what I understand this girl was not an ecomically blessed rider so she had to put the time in. I sincerely doubt those from privlage ( or not at least raised within a family farm business) could hack it more than a week. And you right many barns are full service only at that level they don't want you interferring or knowing for that matter.

Andy Warhol
Oct. 1, 2010, 04:16 PM
This is informative too-

http://equestrisol.com/nl/092910/fullstory.html#ricky-neal

hellerkm
Oct. 1, 2010, 06:38 PM
ok this thread is so off track that now I am going to add my 2 cents ( or sense ) for what its worth.
I am your average "back yard" trainer, I have a few students plus my daughter that I teach, my daughter also has a trainer other than myself. Trainer is fairly well known on the pony scene but this is not my point.
I GREW up on a family farm, we breed and raise VERY nice Tb/WB crosses. BEFORE I was allowed to ride I had to learn to tack , and muck, and feed, and water and since we grow and sell hay I can do that too. I can wrap, braid, groom, pull a shoe, ect. Now that I am the one teaching and bringing along kids THEY know how to do all this as well! I am HUGE on horsemanship, my mother raised us on such huge doses of GM wisdom and knowledge I wanted to GAG!! But in the end it has paid off, and now I get to pass that onto my students and to my daughter. So even at 6 she can spot lameness and tell you where it stems from, she can mix feed and detect moldy hay, she can muck a stall, and clean water tubs.
NOT ALL "back yard" trainers are failing, and not ALL kids are shucking the responsibility of learning the WHOLE job.
IMO opinion there are 2 types of kids, the kids who are passionate about EVERYTHING horsey, and the kids who treat this as just another sport.
I would assume that most of the bigger EQ riders have put in their time, I find it hard to believe that by the time they ride that well they don't have SOME background in horsemanship. I can see the ones without "horsey" parents being less knowledgeable in this area, as I am sure they grew up riding but not being involved in the daily day to day care of their horse like many who board and just come groom and ride. Many barns have a hands off policy as far as feeding your horse, and most times the barn handles the horse for the farrier, and the vet just because the kids are in school or not around. If they have not been exposed you can't fault them for not knowing how it all works.
IMO any chance to attend either the EAP or the GM clinic is a chance to learn, even if they SHOULD or DO know it all in the first place. I learn something from my peers EVERYDAY, I hope that makes me a better trainer each and everyday.

lauriep
Oct. 1, 2010, 07:48 PM
I think for the GM one the top juniors in the country get invited.

Personally I have little respect for this ridiculous "clinic."
It is basically kids at the very top of the sport getting told about stable management like it is rocket science and promptly forgetting to blanket their clipped horses when it is 30 degrees in Florida.

If those kids really want to learn horsemanship they can just as easily get up a little earlier in the morning and ask the grooms where they need help. You know, EVERY DAY not five ones out of the year.

No reason for GM to sit there and make a huge clinic; Jorge and Pedro can teach them just as much without all of this fanfare.

You really don't need to advertise your ignorance. You clearly have NO IDEA what we do and what we accomplish. And no, "Jorge and Pedro" can't teach them because no one has taught THEM!

meupatdoes
Oct. 1, 2010, 08:03 PM
You really don't need to advertise your ignorance. You clearly have NO IDEA what we do and what we accomplish. And no, "Jorge and Pedro" can't teach them because no one has taught THEM!

I find your statement about "Jorge and Pedro" to be pretty offensive.

I learned so much from the head groom at the barn where I rode as a junior, who all these years later is still the head groom there and a treasured member of the team.
Are you seriously trying to make some sort of statement that the grooms working for the elite trainers in the industry don't know what they are doing?!

I have also been the Jorge and the Pedro, and I assure you I knew enough to both take care of a horse and teach anybody else who wanted to wake up early enough to learn. I have managed a 20 horse show stable complete with ALL barn work, ALL turnouts, and getting the ones on the riding roster ridden and the medical care for the lay ups done with NO help and the Trainer out of the country, in 'blanket change weather' no less. Me myself 20 horses and I. Somebody did indeed teach me and I did not have to attend a 5 day deluxe clinic to receive this magical elite education.

lauriep
Oct. 1, 2010, 08:07 PM
meupatdoes, since you have so very obviously NEVER seen a SECOND of what the GM clinic accomplishes, and I have served as the barn manager all four years, let me tell you what really IS the deal, instead of your ridiculous, uninformed rants that so very clearly show your ignorance.

Each year, I have been impressed with the knowledge of at least half of the kids, happy with a couple more who needed some tweaking, and sorry that one or two (out of EIGHT) were clueless. BUT, they were desperate to learn and soaked up every single thing I could tell them.

Each year, there were more in the first and second categories, and fewer in the last. But yes, even last year, there was one who actually needed to change career paths, IMO. But MOST of the kids DO basically serve as working students in the barns they ride at, and were most capable of performing all the tasks required of them. Did they occasionally act like KIDS and need reminding, hurrying up, guidance to get back to work? Of course. But what they didn't need was me standing over them because they couldn't wrap a horse, or muck a stall.

As for how and why the selections are made the way they are: the riding standard is EXTREMELY high and I'm sorry, but most kids I see riding at the local level aren't at that level of riding. The clinic is specifically to identify and help kids that may have the ability to go on to the international level. The Bates list was used because Bates agreed to be the main sponsor. I wish they could identify worthy riders outside of this system, but until they figure out a way to do it, they will probably stick with this method. Now that USEF is sponsoring it, however, maybe they will make some changes. I don't know.

MIKEMCS and meupatdoes, you really need to let go of the green eyed monster and try and post a bit more constructively. Yes, kids need help, but the fact is that most of the trainers out there don't practice good horsemanship, so who is going to teach them? If we reach one kid each year, I feel good about it.

indygirl2560
Oct. 1, 2010, 08:08 PM
All I know about the GM clinic is what I read, but I do have some experience with the EAP. IMO, the EAP was about riding, and riding well, rather than horsemanship. Two of my friends did the 4ft level last year, one got invited back to the second level but couldn't make it to the session at the time/place it was scheduled. From what I saw watching the 4ft group, it was amazing to me how many riders could produce the flatwork "movements" Melanie wanted. I recognized all of the riders from the local, (including A, AA, and B shows), show circuit, but I was shocked at how many needed to go do some more flatwork. And my friend who did get asked back to the 2nd level, had the most precise, best executed flatwork, which reflected in the jumping exercises.

meupatdoes
Oct. 1, 2010, 08:30 PM
Each year, I have been impressed with the knowledge of at least half of the kids, happy with a couple more who needed some tweaking, and sorry that one or two (out of EIGHT) were clueless. BUT, they were desperate to learn and soaked up every single thing I could tell them.

The clinic is specifically to identify and help kids that may have the ability to go on to the international level.

The fact that by your own math a QUARTER of the most elite riders in the country who have been specifically identified as having the potential to go on to the international level are, in your own words, "clueless," is pretty sad.

The fact that I think this is pathetic does not make me jealous. This level of ignorance is nothing to be jealous about. Really.

As I mentioned earlier I have had plenty of opportunities along the way myself -so again, enough with the jealousy argument- but I still managed to learn how to take care of a horse.

But it's great that you are changing the world and Making a Difference by teaching 8 elite riders a year how to manage a horse care program. Kum ba ya and rock on.

And btw I am still interested to hear what on earth you were thinking with that "Jorge and Pedro" comment. Is part of the clinic completely disrespecting the grooms?

lauriep
Oct. 1, 2010, 08:33 PM
The fact that by your own math a QUARTER of the most elite riders in the country who have been specifically identified as having the potential to go on to the international level are, in your own words, "clueless," is pretty sad.

The fact that I think this is pathetic does not make me jealous. This level of ignorance is nothing to be jealous about. Really.

As I mentioned earlier I have had plenty of opportunities along the way myself -so again, enough with the jealousy argument- but I still managed to learn how to take care of a horse.

But it's great that you are changing the world and Making a Difference by teaching 8 elite riders a year how to manage a horse care program. Kum ba ya and rock on.

And you are doing what??? Other than bitching, that is.

CBoylen
Oct. 1, 2010, 08:40 PM
Are you seriously trying to make some sort of statement that the grooms working for the elite trainers in the industry don't know what they are doing?!

The trainers that take time to educate their grooms are harder to find than those that educate their clients. Your head groom might be a wealth of knowledge, many are. They don't, however, start out that way. Someone has to take the time to teach them, and they have to want to learn how to do things right, rather than quickly or easily. I rarely see a groom that comes close to comparing to to the old-time horsemen for whom grooming was a family business for a multi-generational employer. So yes, groom education, even among "elite" trainers is a problem. You only have to watch "elite' horses flying around cross cantering on the lungelines in the mornings to realize that.

As for the riders, the fact is that if you want to learn, you will, no matter if you are in the big league or the backyard. And there are just as many ignorant kids (and adults) taking care of their own horses as there are ignorant kids (and adults) handing them off to a groom. Just because you do it yourself doesn't mean you do it well. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of things we can all learn to do better. Why snark about an opportunity for someone to do that? Or completely ignore the fact that it's a facet of the clinic, which is primarily a serious riding challenge?

meupatdoes
Oct. 1, 2010, 08:53 PM
And you are doing what??? Other than bitching, that is.

As a matter of fact I offer up one of my personal competition horses to go once a week in a free lesson (riders are free to lesson with me at no charge or we can trailer to a nearby A circuit trainer as long as they pay that trainer's fees) and allow them to take him to shows. Of course all care is done by them as well, it is part of the process.

The trick is finding a rider dedicated enough to actually make the once a week commitment. I will teach them in the dark under one light after my real job and schedule MY riding on my horse around their day and work out the horseshow days too. All they have to do is show up.

It's not glamorous but it might just give somebody a shot at a good working student position.

So, since you asked, that's what I'm doing other than bitching.

Eventer13
Oct. 1, 2010, 09:03 PM
Can anyone go over what horsemanship stuff they cover in the GM Horsemastership clinic? From what I've seen, the average pony clubber knows most of it, and the upper level pony clubbers should know all of it. So I'm not sure if they just never got into the tougher material in the magazines and websites, or if it really is pretty basic (considering its being taught to elite riders).

hellerkm
Oct. 1, 2010, 09:47 PM
Can anyone go over what horsemanship stuff they cover in the GM Horsemastership clinic? From what I've seen, the average pony clubber knows most of it, and the upper level pony clubbers should know all of it. So I'm not sure if they just never got into the tougher material in the magazines and websites, or if it really is pretty basic (considering its being taught to elite riders).

LOL, I think you might have a point, if you READ the pony club manual ( rather than attend pony club where some of the leaders are a bit " out there") the expectations are VERY high!! its soooo funny that you pointed this out!!! Elite riders are just that ELITE RIDERS, and I go back to what I stated at the end of my post, EVERYONE can keep learning, none of us know it all, and even if we do ( or did) seeing someone else do it a different way broadens our horizons.

Midge
Oct. 2, 2010, 12:11 AM
As for the riders, the fact is that if you want to learn, you will, no matter if you are in the big league or the backyard. And there are just as many ignorant kids (and adults) taking care of their own horses as there are ignorant kids (and adults) handing them off to a groom. Just because you do it yourself doesn't mean you do it well.

Exactly!

I had almost this very conversation with a BNT who does only the top levels. No short Stirrup kids,heck no ponies at all, no pre adults.

His point was, by the time they get to him, they either know it or they don't. If they want to learn more, they can, but it means getting to the barn with everyone else at 5:30, not getting special horsemanship lessons. If they want to be involved, they can, but they can't pick and choose, they have to commit.

I had a groom one day, one time. It was four years ago and I still think about it. Of course, I had her because I also had 12 hours worth of work to do, but it still remains a lovely moment.

Like a facial, only better...

arbor hill
Oct. 2, 2010, 12:54 AM
As a parent of a child that participated in the GM horsemanship clinic last year, and hopes to go again this year, I just want to say that alot of you are missing the point.

You're so focused on whether these kids can muck a stall or clean tack, (which they can), you've negated the point of the clinic. George works with 2 consecutive groups, 5 students in each, for about 90 minutes on difficult tests on the flat and over fences in the morning, (such as; banquettes, gymnastics, open water, etc.). He also rides their various horses throughout the clinic to demonstrate his lesson.

In the afternoon, the kids attend 'horsemanship' clinics from olympic riders who tell stories of their journey to the olympics. They also hear lectures from the top vets and farriers in the country in an intimate setting.

This 'horsemanship' clinic is not about how to muck a stall or bathe a horse. It's about giving these kids an opportunity to interact with the top professionals in their field. It's truly an amazing opportunity for the riders that are invited to attend.

Hopefully, that gives you a better idea of what the GM Horsemanship Training Session provides. The riding sessions of the clinic and the lectures are open to the general public at no charge and provide a wonderful opportunity for all to learn!

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www.arborhillfarmllc.com

Ravencrest_Camp
Oct. 2, 2010, 11:43 AM
As a parent of a child that participated in the GM horsemanship clinic last year,

_____________________________________________
www.arborhillfarmllc.com

I am a HUGE fan, I have ALL of your albums. Oh sorry wrong parent. :D:lol:

Sorry kids, had to lighten up a bit.

It might save everyone a lot of grief if they just called it the George Morris Elite Rider Clinic.

I can understand both sides of the arguement. I am sure that these kids aren't totally clueless about how to take care of a horse. But the fact of the matter is that the industry has evolved to the point where the businiess model for trainers is not to teach horsemanship, but rather to provide full service.

We could debate why this is all day long, but I don't see how you are going to get it to change. Especially when it isn't in anyone's economic self interest to change the model.

adhock
Oct. 2, 2010, 12:54 PM
I don't know if this helps or not, but I'll give it a shot. I think that the GM HMClinics are showcases and the EAP is a process.

From my direct experience with them, the GM Horsemastership Clinics are "master classes" that are designed for both the lucky participants and observers who want to learn by watching these kids as examples (e.g., 8-10 top juniors as previously determined by either their Ryegate rankings or or by winning a final--some may say this doesn't represent a fair metric, but at least it's a metric). The clinic, in Wellington, is wonderful but the year my kid went (Jan 09 for the 08 show year), it was poorly attended. That really shocked me because that was the year that Beezie, Laura, Mclain, Anne and Robert Dover stepped in to help out. There were also top farriers, vets, animal behaviorists, etc. Practical Horseman (and Phelps) did great daily reports--again, with the intention of using this as a master class and exporting the instructional information to whomever had an interest. They are still available online:

http://equisearch.com/horses%5Friding%5Ftraining/english/hunter%5Fjumper/horsemastership%5Flinks%5F020910/

Practical Horseman covers it in this fashion every year and they do a fantastic job on their website--no subscription required to access the basic reporting from the clinic!

Additionally, there are DVDs and booklets that come out on these clinics. The one I attended only came out on video and in a booklet a few months ago--I have no idea why there was such a big lag--but it is comprehensive (I think the cost of the DVD and the booklet were $39.95 ).

http://horsebooksetc.com/products/Set_of_George_Morris_2009_DVD_and_Booklet-887-40.html

There is also a set of all 3 DVDs that includes all 3 DVD's from the past Horsemastership Clinics, 2007, 2008 and 2009 and the new Horsemastership Booklet released in 2010

http://horsebooksetc.com/products/Horsemastership_Set_of_3_DVD_s_and_Booklet-884-75.html

These master classes are, in fact, super-rich in content from both the technical riding and the horse management aspects. And, by the way, LaurieP plays a big roll in the behind the scenes action. These are hugely instructional and for anyone who wants to see what the differences of the programs are, check them out.

The EAP is going to be, I hope, a process-driven program that will both help discover and educate talent, and then provide a conduit to connect that talent with the right resources to develop it further. That talent may be in riding. It may also be in other areas--horse management and services (such as grooming, veterinary care, farriering, judging, course design, nutrition, show management, marketing, etc.). The key is to get people connected with opportunities that will enhance education and experience and ultimately improve the "sport." In this case, I think that the mission needs to be really clear and the process should be well-defined. I would love to see an effort that continues to refine criteria for inclusion (as well as the types of programs/opportunities provided) and I think/hope that the powers that be are focusing on this.

lauriep
Oct. 2, 2010, 04:27 PM
I am a HUGE fan, I have ALL of your albums. Oh sorry wrong parent. :D:lol:

Sorry kids, had to lighten up a bit.

It might save everyone a lot of grief if they just called it the George Morris Elite Rider Clinic.

I can understand both sides of the arguement. I am sure that these kids aren't totally clueless about how to take care of a horse. But the fact of the matter is that the industry has evolved to the point where the businiess model for trainers is not to teach horsemanship, but rather to provide full service.

We could debate why this is all day long, but I don't see how you are going to get it to change. Especially when it isn't in anyone's economic self interest to change the model.

You are correct. But at some point we will get to "Who is going to train the help?" If the trainer doesn't know how to do it, and the employees are getting farther and farther away from CORRECT horsemanship (each new cycle loses, literally, something in the translation) and more and more shortcuts become SOP. When was the last time you saw a hunter being longed correctly? When was the last time you saw grooms take the time to heat water on a cold FL morning instead of turning the cold hose on them? The list just goes on. But they DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER BECAUSE NO ONE TEACHES THEM. It isn't that the kids need to do it themselves on a regular basis. But they need to know HOW to do it, correctly, so that they can devise their own system, and teach it and demonstrate it to future employees.