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View Full Version : What proper warm up should look like! Reiner Klimke Biotop Aachen



SRF1
Sep. 28, 2010, 12:56 PM
Here is a lovely video of Reiner Klimke warming up Biotop at Aachen in a snaffle. What true dressage training should look like :yes: Where has the sport gone? :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzG-0TyTuMs

esdressage
Sep. 28, 2010, 01:14 PM
Klimke was always lovely :)

EquineDesign
Sep. 28, 2010, 02:02 PM
thank you for posting this link. What an amazing warm up, what a super quality horse. Simple half halts by a true genius, raising the front end and the horse starts to dance!

meupatdoes
Sep. 28, 2010, 02:23 PM
Amazing how he manages to get that quality of work out of the horse without ripping its face around with the whole weight of his torso and yanking his arm back to his armpit.

UrbanHennery
Sep. 28, 2010, 04:29 PM
I am not a dressage rider (nor do I aspire to be one) but I have to say that I would rather watch something like this than anything I've seen coming from WEG so far. Granted, I'm only watching highlights of WEG so may have missed a pair that has that same relaxed beautiful flowing feel, but I'd be surprised.

Wish that people were still riding that way.

Now back to my athletically challenged trail mount...

Trevelyan96
Sep. 28, 2010, 05:40 PM
I am not a dressage rider (nor do I aspire to be one) but I have to say that I would rather watch something like this than anything I've seen coming from WEG so far. Granted, I'm only watching highlights of WEG so may have missed a pair that has that same relaxed beautiful flowing feel, but I'd be surprised.

Wish that people were still riding that way.

Now back to my athletically challenged trail mount...

Well put. If I were seeing more rides like this winning in dressage today, I wouldn't be walking away from it.

raff
Sep. 28, 2010, 05:43 PM
That's a schooling ride, not a warm up for a test. When he was warming up for the test he was kicking the horse really hard with spurs, because he 'thought' it hadn't halted square (it had)
I like him very much, but it isn't fair to compare a schooling ride with warming up for a big competition test. Even Klimke sometimes gave 'one in the gob, two in the guts':yes:

SRF1
Sep. 28, 2010, 05:49 PM
Raff,

The photos coming out of Adelinde Cornelissen were from the day before during one of HER "schooling rides", I am sorry there is NO comparison. :no:

Tuesday's Child
Sep. 28, 2010, 05:52 PM
Not a dressage rider either, but that was beautiful to watch. I aspire to ride that well some day! (A horse of that caliber wouldn't hurt either :lol:)

raff
Sep. 28, 2010, 06:01 PM
Oh, I see. The term 'Warm Up' is usually used to describe preparing for a test.

mbm
Sep. 28, 2010, 09:35 PM
no, you also warmup before getting down to business in any ride .....

kpony
Sep. 28, 2010, 09:39 PM
Have you seen the vid of Steffan Peters warming up in Achen last year? :)



http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTIyzybTYP0

esdressage
Sep. 28, 2010, 09:57 PM
I really like Steffen's riding. Here's the link working:

Steffen Aachen 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTIyzybTYP0)

kpony
Sep. 28, 2010, 10:14 PM
Thanks! :winkgrin:

meupatdoes
Sep. 29, 2010, 04:17 AM
I am a little confused by the "schooling ride" v. "warm up" distinction.

First of all, if this is the 'schooling ride' on video, do we have video evidence that he was kicking the bejeezus out of the horse for the "real" warm up or is this just an assumption? On what basis are you informing us that for the "real" warm up he "was kicking this horse really hard?"

Secondly, are we meant to believe it is somehow a PREREQUISITE to competition to warmup with "one in the gob, two in the guts?"
Or may it actually be possible to warmup pleasantly as shown in the video?
Have we come to the point where we don't think it is even POSSIBLE to warm up for a big competition in a pleasant and relaxed manner???

Thirdly, the pictures do not show "one in the gob, two in the guts." They show an endless repetition of "one in the gob" and several more in the guts to go with them.
Even if this horse did get one little moment from Klimke, that is still different, imo, from what is going on in the latest warmup photos.

SRF1
Sep. 29, 2010, 04:26 AM
I am sorry if I have confused everyone with the title. I should have just put "This is what dressage should look like." ;)

raff
Sep. 29, 2010, 05:14 AM
Calm down, RK is on video warming up for a test at Aachen, Carol Lavell (sp?) narrating.If you're interested enough you could probably find it.He got it wrong and was unfair to the horse, it happens.I was just mentioning it because it demonstrated that,even for the best, riding is not all rainbows and butterflies.
As for some agenda re photos etc, I was not aware of, or commenting on that.

paintjumper
Sep. 29, 2010, 08:30 AM
Steffen is PURE CLASS!!! Oh.....and that pony he is riding is OK too ;)

kaluha2
Sep. 29, 2010, 08:32 AM
How very interesting.

raff:

I have done an extensive search and cannot for the life of me find the video of Reiner giving his horse "one in the gob, and two in the gut" you are referring to.

You also stated, "When he was warming up for the test he was kicking the horse really hard with spurs, because he 'thought' it hadn't halted square (it had)."

I really would like to see this video for myself because after having worked extensively with Willy Schultheis, I find it extremely difficult to believe that Reiner Klimke of all riders would not be able to actually feel if his horse was square or not. I am sorry to be such a dunce but would you be so kind and post that video for me. Thanks for any assistance you might offer.

WBLover
Sep. 29, 2010, 08:32 AM
Just goes to show that you CAN have submission, suppleness and obedience without cranking their chins into their chests.... :no:

princessfluffybritches
Sep. 29, 2010, 09:18 AM
In RK's book "Ahlerich", his training sessions with Ahlerich , he talks about preserving the horse's expressiveness and willingness. He admits a mistake made with Ahlerich teaching the piaffe. He got angry with him and showed him how ugly he did it. And the negativity was always there after that with the piaffe. Not so noticeable at times, but still there. Still, RK and Ahlerich were so right for one another.
Biotop, on the other hand, was a commitment made when RK was looking forward to retirement, and coerced into one last go. Biotop was a difficult horse, and spooky, and not near the partnership he had with Ahlerich. RK will always be my idol, to me he's the epitomy of how I'd like to ride and train like he did. No, he was not perfect, but to me, but I have never seen any better.

kaluha2
Sep. 29, 2010, 09:28 AM
Just so my post does not get lost in the shuffle as I really want to see the video please:

I have done an extensive search and cannot for the life of me find the video of Reiner giving his horse "one in the gob, and two in the gut" you are referring to.

You also stated, "When he was warming up for the test he was kicking the horse really hard with spurs, because he 'thought' it hadn't halted square (it had)."

I really would like to see this video for myself because after having worked extensively with Willy Schultheis, I find it extremely difficult to believe that Reiner Klimke of all riders would not be able to actually feel if his horse was square or not. I am sorry to be such a dunce but would you be so kind and post that video for me. Thanks for any assistance you might offer.

EasyStreet
Sep. 29, 2010, 09:54 AM
Dr Reiner Klemke is my dressage hero and I know he is not God and has probably given into human error from time to time, but I am sure of his love for the horses and although involved in the "sport" of dressage, I think he endevored to maintain the "art" of dressage! If you watch his ride on the young horse Biotop in the 95 Volvo WC in Hollywood,Ca., his was one of the few that remained soft in the throat and neck and no tail switching in any of the movements or transitions!! The fact that Biotop was known to be difficult and yet achieve this kind of harmony is to me evedence that RK adheared to the training scale to produce that kind of relaxation, especially at a huge event with that much going on! And not that it really matters but that lovely bay horse RK is riding in the video narrated by Bill Woods at the beginning of this thread, is not Biotop. Biotop had a white star on hs head and two white socks in front and two white stockings behind! Nonetheless, a shinning example of how a schooling/warm up should look!To me Dr. Reiner Klemke was a modern day master! When I am faced with a training issue, I often ask myself, "What would Reiner Klemke do??";)

doccer
Sep. 29, 2010, 10:18 AM
that is absolutely amazing! not only that the horse is being allowed to be above the vertical :yes:

but its the transformation of the horse!! :eek: looks like a plain old first level horse at the beginning... then they really start to ride! and horse is animated and simply HUGE!!

thank you for the video! i can never find the good ones on youtube! (I hate watching the hyperflexion/deep videos, cuz you know what... if deep/hyperflexion is the only way to ride dressage... i'd have nothing to do with it ever) I think i'll enjoy my soft and enjoyable 1st/2nd level horses :) )

It's probably why dressage people are starting to get into reining!!! WAY MORE FUN!

raff
Sep. 29, 2010, 11:22 AM
Just so my post does not get lost in the shuffle as I really want to see the video please:


I can't find it online, and have no machine to play the tape on now.
The video is called 'Warming Up At Aachen' produced by Cloverlea, in the days before the warmup was closed. Carol Lavell was narrating it, they later moved on to having Jane Savoie narrate their vids. Presumably Carol was a little too acerbic with her commentary :) She remarked on RKs correction of a correct horse, and wondered why he didn't have 'eyes on the ground, and that her mother could have told him that' :lol
She also remarked that Klause Bs horse, Gracioso if I recall correctly, would be too strong for herself 'a lady' to ride. Klause B was riding with considerable weight in the reins, and leaning back .
Anyway...believe me or not, re write history all you like, it doesn't change anything as far as i'm concerned.

mbm
Sep. 29, 2010, 12:45 PM
ummmm...... there is a HUGE difference between rider error from time to time (we ALL make mistakes, even Klimke) and riding every day in a manner that is harsh.

I dont even see how anyone could say " Klimke kicked his horse once so how can you say he is someone to look up to"?

that is utter nonsense!

i have seen klimke make mistakes.... but the MAJORITY of the time he rides wonderfully and his horse PROVE it by how they go!

mbm
Sep. 29, 2010, 12:46 PM
ps - i have pulled out all my old dressage books just to let my eyes readjust back to normal dressage.... the difference in how horses went even 10 years ago is astounding.

and i miss that manner of riding :(

raff
Sep. 29, 2010, 01:51 PM
That's a schooling ride, not a warm up for a test. When he was warming up for the test he was kicking the horse really hard with spurs, because he 'thought' it hadn't halted square (it had)
I like him very much, but it isn't fair to compare a schooling ride with warming up for a big competition test. Even Klimke sometimes gave 'one in the gob, two in the guts':yes:

Actually, THIS is what I wrote...the rest is a product of your fevered imagination:lol:

dwblover
Sep. 29, 2010, 06:15 PM
I just love Steffen's riding. I of course loved Klimke's video also, but Steffen just has such a gentle touch with the horses. A real breath of fresh air!!!

kpony
Sep. 29, 2010, 06:52 PM
I was also happy to see after Laura B's ride (Mistral) in the WEG today she was shown returning to the warmup ring and trotting with a stretchy neck.

princessfluffybritches
Sep. 30, 2010, 01:42 AM
Dr Reiner Klemke is my dressage hero and I know he is not God and has probably given into human error from time to time, but I am sure of his love for the horses and although involved in the "sport" of dressage, I think he endevored to maintain the "art" of dressage! If you watch his ride on the young horse Biotop in the 95 Volvo WC in Hollywood,Ca., his was one of the few that remained soft in the throat and neck and no tail switching in any of the movements or transitions!! The fact that Biotop was known to be difficult and yet achieve this kind of harmony is to me evedence that RK adheared to the training scale to produce that kind of relaxation, especially at a huge event with that much going on! And not that it really matters but that lovely bay horse RK is riding in the video narrated by Bill Woods at the beginning of this thread, is not Biotop. Biotop had a white star on hs head and two white socks in front and two white stockings behind! Nonetheless, a shinning example of how a schooling/warm up should look!To me Dr. Reiner Klemke was a modern day master! When I am faced with a training issue, I often ask myself, "What would Reiner Klemke do??";)

Me too me too!!!!!

suzy
Sep. 30, 2010, 08:23 AM
ps - i have pulled out all my old dressage books just to let my eyes readjust back to normal dressage.... the difference in how horses went even 10 years ago is astounding.

and i miss that manner of riding :(

There is nothing stopping you or anyone else from pursuing that manner of training and riding.

kaluha2
Sep. 30, 2010, 09:03 AM
"Anyway...believe me or not, re write history all you like, it doesn't change anything as far as i'm concerned."

raff: No one is trying to rewrite history and No one said they don't believe you. It is a good idea though to be able to back up saying, "even Klimke gave one in the gob and two in the gut" with your video as this really is a disgusting thing to just throw out there on a BB without back up.

It is not too far a stretch to consider that at some point in his riding career that even Klimke may have had to get after a horse, I don't have a problem with that.

However, I certainly do have difficulty believing that he got after his horse because he couldn't tell if his horse was halting correctly and I certainly have difficulty with the thought that he was not fair in any correction he ever gave.

Honestly, saying, "even Klimke gave one in the gob and two in the gut" is quite unbecoming of the man. He had a much more education and refined manner in correcting a horse because of his understanding of fairness and tack where the horse was concerned.

Giving a horse "one in the gob and two in the gut" was really not his style as he was much more educated than that and was able to finese a horse and correct one without a lot of drama.

suzy
Sep. 30, 2010, 09:23 AM
Kaluha, I can agree with much of what you say and think Klimke was a rider/trainer worthy of emulation. However, I have a book that shows a seriously ugly moment on Ahlerich. I believe it is "The World of Dressage." Can't think of author offhand, but it's an older book with wonderful photos of horses like Piaff, Pepel, and Ahlerich to name just a few. Klimke was human, and I imagine he made mistakes for which he regretted. I don't think the poster who referred to "gob" and "gut" intended to be disrepectful; just honest about the fact that humans are humans and horses are horses, and we tend to behave as such more than we would like on occasion. :)

Ah, author's name just came to me. It is Neil French Blake.

raff
Sep. 30, 2010, 01:37 PM
"Anyway...believe me or not, re write history all you like, it doesn't change anything as far as i'm concerned."

raff: No one is trying to rewrite history and No one said they don't believe you. It is a good idea though to be able to back up saying, "even Klimke gave one in the gob and two in the gut" with your video as this really is a disgusting thing to just throw out there on a BB without back up.
As I said, it's on a video, I no longer have a tape playing machine, i'm sure other people have seen it.You could contact Cloverlea if you have to know for sure.It's NOT a disgusting thing to say, it was a statement made to counteract the idea that even a wonderful rider like Klimke never used forceful methods. He was a human, not a God.It's just a reality of training horses,and attempt to put things in some kind of perspective.

It is not too far a stretch to consider that at some point in his riding career that even Klimke may have had to get after a horse, I don't have a problem with that.

However, I certainly do have difficulty believing that he got after his horse because he couldn't tell if his horse was halting correctly and I certainly have difficulty with the thought that he was not fair in any correction he ever gave.
Ask Carol Lavell?

Honestly, saying, "even Klimke gave one in the gob and two in the gut" is quite unbecoming of the man. He had a much more education and refined manner in correcting a horse because of his understanding of fairness and tack where the horse was concerned.
Not in this instance.(I assume you mean tact?)

Giving a horse "one in the gob and two in the gut" was really not his style as he was much more educated than that and was able to finese a horse and correct one without a lot of drama.
I agree it was not his 'style' as is commonly believed, it was an actual event though.
Now...on to the Easter Bunny:lol:

kaluha2
Oct. 1, 2010, 05:36 AM
Yes, did mean tact. LOL!

Velvet
Oct. 1, 2010, 04:21 PM
How very interesting.

raff:

I have done an extensive search and cannot for the life of me find the video of Reiner giving his horse "one in the gob, and two in the gut" you are referring to.

You also stated, "When he was warming up for the test he was kicking the horse really hard with spurs, because he 'thought' it hadn't halted square (it had)."

I really would like to see this video for myself because after having worked extensively with Willy Schultheis, I find it extremely difficult to believe that Reiner Klimke of all riders would not be able to actually feel if his horse was square or not. I am sorry to be such a dunce but would you be so kind and post that video for me. Thanks for any assistance you might offer.

I had the exact same thought. He could easily feel of the horse was square or not. If he spurred him, there was obviously something else going on that a fear the horse was not square in his halt.

kaluha2
Oct. 3, 2010, 08:09 PM
Exactly velvet. But ya know, whatever.

spirithorse
Oct. 3, 2010, 11:18 PM
We all make mistakes, Klimke diligently worked so he would rarely make mistakes.

The performances at WEG have shown numerous riders making consistent and ongoing mistakes is the performance and in the schooling.

As evidence:
I posted a thread about GB's Ms. Bechtolsheimer regarding comparing her three tests...no one has bothered to respond. I find that most telling, for even a novice could see the differences in the performances being caused by the rider...oh I do like her and her horse.

suzy
Oct. 4, 2010, 09:02 AM
I didnt' see your thread or the three videos. However, it's only natural that the three performances are going to differ. These are living creatures, not machines. And, if Laura made mistakes, so what? She's exceptional, not perfect. Some of us are able to overlook little bobbles and appreciate the overall picture. There is an excellent chance that she is more aware of her actual mistakes than outside observers; barring her trainer and others of their ilk.