PDA

View Full Version : Adelinde Cornelissen eliminated at WEG



Spectrum
Sep. 28, 2010, 09:21 AM
Adelinde Cornelissen was just eliminated due to blood on her horse's lip.

BetterOffRed
Sep. 28, 2010, 10:05 AM
oh no!

Although elimination is the right thing to do. It is so unfair. I would have loved to have seen her/Parzival compete fair and square!

dwblover
Sep. 28, 2010, 10:13 AM
There is a fairly disturbing photo of the pair at eventing nation from the warm-up at WEG. Parzival's nose is on his chest, just like Power n Paint. It's just getting ridiculous at this point. This stuff really makes our sport look BAD!

Fantastic
Sep. 28, 2010, 10:15 AM
Dang! I love that pair! This is so unlike them, no?

Please tell the whole story. Where did you find this information? What happened (I did not see her ride yesterday)? Was this revealed during the bit check?

But seriously, blood in the mouth - how shameful! Takes some strong resistance of hands against mouth/mouth against hands or improperly fitting bits?

How unfortunate, especially for the horse!!!

dwblover
Sep. 28, 2010, 10:18 AM
The British judge at C eliminated her after her reinback because he saw the blood coming out of the horse's mouth. Dutch team is stating the horse bit his tongue. I don't know what I believe. I guess more info will come out. I do believe that the photo of her in the warm-up is VERY unflattering. I guess Sjeff's style of riding has won her over, sadly.

Fantastic
Sep. 28, 2010, 10:35 AM
I found the threads over in the WEG = good info there.

This is just so sad, and so wrong! :cry: Poor horse!

Bogey2
Sep. 28, 2010, 10:45 AM
the horse bit his lip is what the COTH article say's.

equinedriver
Sep. 28, 2010, 11:45 AM
oh no!

Although elimination is the right thing to do. It is so unfair. I would have loved to have seen her/Parzival compete fair and square!

So I guess you think that the manner in which she rides her horse outside the ring is correct????????? There are MANY more photo's on the same site where John got the one that is posted on EN. FWIW, here is warm up VIDEO of several riders, one from the Netherlands, one from Britain and one from Germany. Although they do pat their horse when they release it from being twisted and cranked to it's chest, does anyone REALLY think this is proper dressage training?????????

http://www.horse2rider.eu/Webnodes/en/Web/CMS/Nyheder/Forberedelserne

Problem is, it's producing what is winning, and winning is what it's all about.

Bit it's tongue? Yeah right. Has anyone out side the Netherlands delegation seen it?

ginger708
Sep. 28, 2010, 12:06 PM
So I guess you think that the manner in which she rides her horse outside the ring is correct????????? There are MANY more photo's on the same site where John got the one that is posted on EN. FWIW, here is warm up VIDEO of several riders, one from the Netherlands, one from Britain and one from Germany. Although they do pat their horse when they release it from being twisted and cranked to it's chest, does anyone REALLY think this is proper dressage training?????????

http://www.horse2rider.eu/Webnodes/en/Web/CMS/Nyheder/Forberedelserne

Problem is, it's producing what is winning, and winning is what it's all about.

Bit it's tongue? Yeah right. Has anyone out side the Netherlands delegation seen it?

Ok I'll bite. What do you thing made the horses mouth bleed? If you use any type of bit that would produce blood you are eliminated when they check the bit and you will get brought up for disciplinary action by the FEI. Once the bell rings and you are eliminated that is no winning to be had.

equinedriver
Sep. 28, 2010, 12:44 PM
Ok I'll bite. What do you thing made the horses mouth bleed? If you use any type of bit that would produce blood you are eliminated when they check the bit and you will get brought up for disciplinary action by the FEI. Once the bell rings and you are eliminated that is no winning to be had.

I was referring to the jammed up hyper flexion of the training rides and warm ups, not the bleeding that got her DQ'd.

ginger708
Sep. 28, 2010, 12:47 PM
But you said. "Bit it's tongue? Yeah right." This sounds as if you do not believe that the horse bit it's tongue. I was just wondering where you thought the blood came from?

Lisa Cook
Sep. 28, 2010, 01:22 PM
[quote=equinedriver;5124940
Bit it's tongue? Yeah right. Has anyone out side the Netherlands delegation seen it?[/quote]

I'm not sure why everyone has such a hard time believing a horse can bite its tongue. I replied on another thread, as did some other people....Yes, I have seen a horse bite its tongue. And no, it was not doing rollkur at the time and there was no abuse involved. A fluke accident.

I've read where stewards immediately inspected the horse today and found where it bit the underside of the tip of its tongue. It happens. I feel very badly for the horse & rider today.

n2dressage
Sep. 28, 2010, 02:00 PM
So I'm with Lisa... those of you that are saying "horse bit his tongue? yeah right!" are you implying that YOU have never bitten your tongue?? Wow, must be nice to have never had THAT experience! :lol:

Liz
Sep. 28, 2010, 02:03 PM
I had a horse bite off the tip of his tongue (about a 1/2 inch piece) in his stall.

It happens.

hoopoe
Sep. 28, 2010, 02:07 PM
i had a horse bite its lower lip, two perfect round impressions

slight parrot mouth

ThreeFigs
Sep. 28, 2010, 02:07 PM
OW!

NanO
Sep. 28, 2010, 02:20 PM
Is anybody watching it live now? How's it going? How are the Americans and Canadians doing? I'm stuck at work and can't find a leader board site.*&#$$#@#$#$!

ThreeFigs
Sep. 28, 2010, 02:23 PM
This reminds me -- my dear old jumper cut his lip when we were out hacking. He reached down to grab at grass and kicked himself in the chin as I was trying to raise his head. I felt terrible about it when I dismounted and saw about a one-inch long strip of skin dangling. Fortunately, it was a skinny strip of skin and healed just fine and didn't slow down his ability to eat.

That was probably 30 years ago. Accidents happen. I think my timing (trying to lift his head up), his position, and phase of the walk all contributed to Barry's cup lip.

OneGrayPony
Sep. 28, 2010, 02:25 PM
Regardless of the tongue bite, every horse I've ever owned would dump my azz in 2 1/2 seconds flat if I tried to ride like that. What submissive horses indeed to not blow up. I really am puzzled that there aren't more explosions of "screw you lady, stop spurring me while my head is glued to my chest".

I'm also puzzled because there's a lot of force being applied - in Isabell Werth's video, her hands go flat quite often and it's obvious that her biceps are doing a lot of work. This whole thing just puzzles me greatly.

MintHillFarm
Sep. 28, 2010, 02:27 PM
A horse could bite it's tongue, certainly could happen. I wouldn't rule it out at all...

Watched the video. It's over flexion in my hunter-view opinion. And no helmets on the German riders while schooling...not part of this forum I know, but I couldn't help but notice! It actually looked odd to me.

meupatdoes
Sep. 28, 2010, 02:32 PM
Yes, accidents happen.

But perhaps they would be less likely to happen were the rider to refrain from throwing the whole weight of her torso (http://www.st-georg.de/bilder_popup.php?objekt_id=8357&next=2)into ripping the horse's face around.

ThreeFigs
Sep. 28, 2010, 02:37 PM
That looks nasty as heck. Parzival reminds me of my Figgy. She should just give him to me!

OneGrayPony
Sep. 28, 2010, 02:43 PM
I also watched the video of her ride, and someone else's (at this point I've forgotten whose, I apologize, maybe it will come to me, but I'm loathe to look it up again as I have very very sloooowwwwww modem connection)....

And I have an honest to goodness question?

I was taught shoulder, hip, heel = straight line.

I can understand making adjustments pending a change in gait etc....but...there's no shoulder, hip, heel here. She is very much behind the vertical herself for most of the ride.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but...can someone tell me what I'm missing here?

SueCoo2
Sep. 28, 2010, 02:44 PM
But perhaps they would be less likely to happen were the rider to refrain from throwing the whole weight of her torso into ripping the horse's face around.

Exactly! Perhaps if he could feel his face after being "LDRed" to death he might know where his tongue was at. Have you ever sat on your leg(s) and then found them dead when you were ready to stand up? Well that's exactly what that poor horse is feeling. He can't feel his face after being ridden like that!:no:

Trevelyan96
Sep. 28, 2010, 03:48 PM
This video and the rollkur defenders are exactly what have motivated me to walk away from dressage and go back to my old h/j trainer.

I don't even understand why there is a debate about the practice among horsemen, why this is allowed in the practice ring at a licennsed event, and why these riders win.

There is somethng fundamentally wrong with what is happening in the upper levels of dressage today, and, unfortunately, it is trickling down to the lower levels and amatuers who don't know any better and can't find a pro to teach them right from wrong.

I am not saying there aren't problems in the h/j ring, where I also see too many horses in the practice ring rollkured in draw reins, but at least you can still find a good old fasioned trainer who teaches a beginner to ride without cranking the horses mouth shut and his face behind the vertical and calling that 'connection'.

ZiggyStardust
Sep. 28, 2010, 05:25 PM
So I guess you think that the manner in which she rides her horse outside the ring is correct????????? There are MANY more photo's on the same site where John got the one that is posted on EN. FWIW, here is warm up VIDEO of several riders, one from the Netherlands, one from Britain and one from Germany. Although they do pat their horse when they release it from being twisted and cranked to it's chest, does anyone REALLY think this is proper dressage training?????????

http://www.horse2rider.eu/Webnodes/en/Web/CMS/Nyheder/Forberedelserne

Problem is, it's producing what is winning, and winning is what it's all about.

Bit it's tongue? Yeah right. Has anyone out side the Netherlands delegation seen it?

Isabell Werth is giving a really thorough demo of crank and spank right around 9:10. Wonder why she doesn't ride like that in the show ring if it is perfectly acceptable? I guess I'm assuming she doesn't. Maybe she does. I kind of doubt it, though.

Also, I think she is getting really nice results at teaching her horse to pace at the walk. Are there points for that?

crazyhorses
Sep. 28, 2010, 06:24 PM
I do agree it was a good thing to disqualify.

However, when my mare was about 2, she was playing with the leadrope and it wrapped around her tongue, she pulled back, a voila! Her tongue was bleeding.

Donella
Sep. 28, 2010, 07:45 PM
The horse OBVIOUSLY bit himself in the test or he would have been eliminated prior to going into the competition ring. These things happen.

You know, I will agree that the photos are not flattering, but having been to a number of international events I know I could take very unflattering photos of ANY rider. I was just photographing some famous riders a few weeks ago. The rides were nice, none of the riding was violent or excessive but wow, when I got home and looked at the photos, I could have made what was good riding look like hell via selectively picking out certain photos and posting them online. Horses are horses and they all have their moments.

Notice how the St George mag (a German publication) NEVER shows the Dutch horses working nicely in competition frame but there are so many pics of Isabell ect have nice quiet times with their horses, loose reins ect ect. I mean come on people, you need to realize that this is what the media is all about. They sensationalize. It is not hard to create a certain image via selective photo publishing (for ANY rider).

HorseBabble
Sep. 28, 2010, 08:32 PM
Notice how the St George mag (a German publication) NEVER shows the Dutch horses working nicely in competition frame but there are so many pics of Isabell ect have nice quiet times with their horses, loose reins ect ect. I mean come on people, you need to realize that this is what the media is all about. They sensationalize. It is not hard to create a certain image via selective photo publishing (for ANY rider).

Even if this is true, it doesn't excuse the practice. Just because everyone isn't caught doesn't mean we excuse those who are.

appaloosalady
Sep. 28, 2010, 08:34 PM
Isabell Werth is giving a really thorough demo of crank and spank right around 9:10. Wonder why she doesn't ride like that in the show ring if it is perfectly acceptable? I guess I'm assuming she doesn't. Maybe she does. I kind of doubt it, though.

Also, I think she is getting really nice results at teaching her horse to pace at the walk. Are there points for that?


I don't know how anybody could be hypocritical enough to think that this type of riding is okay but western pleasure horses are abused and "unnatural" ( I know it hasn't been said in this particular thread, but it is a favorite saying amongst many dressage riders on this forum ;)). The riding in that video was disgusting and I would like to see the horse without his head cranked all the way to his chest.

shawneeAcres
Sep. 28, 2010, 08:41 PM
Yes, accidents happen.

But perhaps they would be less likely to happen were the rider to refrain from throwing the whole weight of her torso (http://www.st-georg.de/bilder_popup.php?objekt_id=8357&next=2)into ripping the horse's face around.

Ok I have refrained from the whole "rollkur" discussion, but THIS photo is appauling for ANY discipline. I ahve unfrotuantely seen that at QH shows (and worse) but this horses mouth is LITERALLY being ripped off in the photo, look at how FAR the snaffle mouthpiece is out of his mouth on the side he is not being "flexed" (i.e. ripped) towards! I mean if the horse was running away, maybe this is warranted, but no OTHER time! Much less "schooling"!

BaroquePony
Sep. 28, 2010, 08:50 PM
Sorry, that is a testament to the horse's generosity, not the rider's sophistication, horsemanship or riding skill.

honeychile
Sep. 28, 2010, 09:51 PM
Does anyone have a link to this video you guys are speaking of?

meupatdoes
Sep. 29, 2010, 12:32 AM
Does anyone have a link to this video you guys are speaking of?

It is in one of the posts of this thread, and quoted once or twice as well. Just scroll through looking for blue links.