Congrats EAP Level III selections

[Beenthere]

Finalists for the EAP Nationals in Alphabetical Order
Taylor Adams
Alexa Anthony
Dani Beavers
Ali Cornish
Natalie Crane
Lauren Ditallo
Paul Fredericks
Morgan Geller
Kate Haley
Anna Hallene
Michael Kocher
Melena Smith

Reserves
Alexa Allen
Julie Gravelle
Nora Laue
Colleen Lewis
Molly Ozier
Seems a great selection of talent that was chosen for EAP III.
Alexa Anthony winner of Maclay Regional Zone 7 and 9th in USET Talent Search West; Morgan Geller 4th in Maclay Regionals West Coast and 5th USET Talent Search West; Ali Cornish 8th USET Talent Search West; Michael Kocher who drove himself and his horse to EAP II and handled the weekend alone, many ribbons Junior Hunters, Jumpers and equitation; Paul Fredericks a SCAD standout; Melena Smith who recovered from a broken collarbone and just got back riding;
I don’t know must about the other riders but I am sure they too have excellent records. Clearly the selection committee hit the nail on the head with their choices. I hope others will add more about the other riders.
Good luck at Level III

[neigh.neigh]

I am Melena Smith! I will you guys an overview of what we do at the clinic in November. I have never been so excited in my entire life, the EAP is such an amazing program and I am so lucky to have been accepted. I can't wait!

[AllyandPete]

Yay for Kate Haley! :-)

[SarahandSam]

Another yay for Katie Haley, and for all of those selected! It seems like a really awesome program...

[supershorty628]

This is wonderful for the people who qualified and my congratulations to all of them.

But...

Isn't this supposed to be a way to find the people who "aren't on the radar" and have a lot of undiscovered talent? Because uh, some of those people are definitely "on the radar"...

Just saying. Flame suit on. Not really getting what this program is looking for at this point.

[neigh.neigh]

Just so you know, that isn't the same Taylor Adams that won USET West, that is Taylor Ann Adams :)

[heartinrye]

Just so you know, that isn't the same Taylor Adams that won USET West, that is Taylor Ann Adams :)

Yes, this Taylor Adams is from Dallas :winkgrin:

[indygirl2560]

Congrats to all but........Go Ali!

[snaffle635]

Woo hoo for Lauren!

[adhock]

Yeah for grass roots, for sure!

[Sundown]

Congrats to all...but I would love to see USHJA definition of "grass roots"

[Beenthere]

The mission of the Emerging Athletes Program (EAP) is to develop complete horsemen by implementing a system of identifying and nurturing talented young riders and providing them with support and assistance in achieving their full potential. This program creates opportunities for young riders to advance their education in their pursuit to become professionals within our industry.

[supershorty628]

The mission of the Emerging Athletes Program (EAP) is to develop complete horsemen by implementing a system of identifying and nurturing talented young riders and providing them with support and assistance in achieving their full potential. This program creates opportunities for young riders to advance their education in their pursuit to become professionals within our industry.

If that's truly the goal, then I fail to see why the kids doing the upper level jumpers are excluded.
Edit: I thought the rules specifically stated that you could not do the program if you had ever shown over a certain height (1.30m or 1.35m, I think)...? Am I wrong?

Again, I'm not trying to take anything away from those who made it to the final level - that's very commendable and I'm sure all of them deserve it. I just don't think this program's goals are matching up with its execution.

[Cindeye]

Congrats to all but........Go Ali!
Word! Congrats Ali :D

[RyderRoo]

This is wonderful for the people who qualified and my congratulations to all of them.

But...

Isn't this supposed to be a way to find the people who "aren't on the radar" and have a lot of undiscovered talent? Because uh, some of those people are definitely "on the radar"...

Just saying. Flame suit on. Not really getting what this program is looking for at this point.

Congratulations to those that made it.. but

It is for those who have a name already and/or know someone and I've said that in previous posts but there were those that said it wasn't true. I could have told you at least half of this list prior to the list going up. I've been flamed before for saying it but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

This isn't grass roots and there shouldn't be any pretending that it is. It is fine that the USHJA wants it this way, it is their program afterall, but just don't put on a pretense that it is for everyone.

[RyderRoo]

If that's truly the goal, then I fail to see why the kids doing the upper level jumpers are excluded.
Edit: I thought the rules specifically stated that you could not do the program if you had ever shown over a certain height (1.30m or 1.35m, I think)...? Am I wrong?

Again, I'm not trying to take anything away from those who made it to the final level - that's very commendable and I'm sure all of them deserve it. I just don't think this program's goals are matching up with its execution.

and I also don't understand the exclusion. If they can ride why not allow them to do so.. especially if they are going to continue in the business.

[Lucassb]

I think the program has grown in a direction that caters more to the next generation of elite athletes than to the true "grass roots" as some of us understood it at the inception of the program. They are trying to cultivate the next generation of Team riders.

Back in the beginning, I believe you could be jumping around stuff at 3' or so and still be part of the program - perhaps a more accessible level than the one that currently exists.

The reality that I think very few people like to accept is that even a very innately talented rider who is hidden away in a backyard somewhere is very unlikely to be mounted on a horse that can take them up the ranks to an elite level. That rider may have done a superb job with what they had to work with, but unless and until someone comes up with a way of mounting that rider on a more capable animal... they simply aren't going to be able to take their riding to another level.

I'm not saying that is a great thing... but it IS reality.

I hate to be the wet blanket in the crowd, but having our nation's top riders and trainers focus on those kids - while it might be very admirable - is probably not going to result in creating that next generation of GP stars and USET riders. Even superstars like Melanie et al are not going to be able to transform the kid who is jumping around the barrels in their back yard into a rider who can execute a 1.30 or 1.40 course in the space of a clinic or even a single season.

Just a tough reality of our sport and the money that it requires. I am a HUGE believer in working hard, advancing yourself, and the opportunities that DO exist to move up in the sport through your own efforts. But I don't think the EAP is the vehicle that will get those true "grass roots" kids there.

Flame away.

[adhock]

So here's my two cents as a mom who had a kid who struggled her way up the ladder before the EAP (which I think, in concept, is fantastic). These are precious and great opportunities, but if you take a place in them, you take one away from someone who might not otherwise have the access to the top pros and instruction. I don't know the winner of the USET West, but I do know that she will have a place in the George Morris Horsemastership Clinic this January. As a mom who had a kid who was fortunate enough to have that experience after winning the USET East Final, I can tell you that the clinic is absolutely phenomenal. So my feeling is that kids who win eq finals, or get a team or individual Young Riders medal, should be removed (or elect to remove themselves) from the EAP program after their award. I know that my daughter feels strongly about this, too, and we both think that it's a fundamental flaw in a potentially great program. Also, I've spoken with several people who assisted in last year's program. There was a huge schism of kids with top trainers and jumpers (most of whom own numerous horses) and kids with less well-known trainers and access to top rides. Personally, I'd love to see a more level playing field since this ends in a competition. If we truly want to develop talent for the future (not just talent in competitors, but talent in trainers, judges, course designers and other professionals), shouldn't we broaden and deepen the gene pool?

[Beenthere]

Well, looking at this from a different perspective.

My "kid" participated this year at levels 1 and 2, and she did not make it to Level 3, nor should she have as it was not her weekend at Level 2 :no:.

Those selected from her region where clear standouts and it was no surprise they were selected. Neither, I may add, are bigeq standouts, just hard working young riders with incredible desire to be in this industry.

But, the exposure from doing EAP got my kid an interview and job at a very high profile show farm and thus starting her career in the industry this week. That is what she was hoping to accomplish (networking) and it was well worth it. Without EAP she would not have even gotten a call back. This position is with the creme of the crop trainers.

Another person was spotted and offered a private trainer job commencing next April after graduation from college for very good money. (This was done based on the Level 1 session).

So I do believe there are other ways this program works outside of Level 3 and winning.

I believe the riders who are successfully competing at 1.40m and above are already on the radar screen for future success. I know one young girl at Level 2 in our group is already trying Grand Prix horses and she is top notch. So the path is already set for her.

Just offering another view, for what it is worth.

[Beenthere]

I would like to add one more point. The motivation and exposure this programs exudes makes these participants read more books, focus more on horsemanship, watch more professionals in schooling areas, and genuinely makes them "want" to be better horsemen and women. That part of the program is stuff the outside world does not get to see.

and yes ADHOCK, I agree, if the participant starts to win in the areas you mention, they should step aside and allow someone else a spot. That is true sportsmanship

[sunshinestate]

I guess it matters to that Taylor Adams, Dani Beavers, Lauren Ditallo, Kate Haley and Michael Kocher I believe all did Level 1 and 2 last year and came back again and did Level 1 and 2, thus now have made it to Level 3. Alexa Anthony went to Level 3 last year.

So in fact these folks have been seen 4 times each before getting to Level 3 and have worked two years in a row to get to Level 3.

Six others are new to Level 3 this year.

Many are tried and true jumper riders.

The program is great and all of your comments should make each year better and better

[RyderRoo]

I talked to almost all of the riders at the level 2 I attended. Not all of those 12 planned on a career with horses. In fact less than 2/3 of the group planned on a career with horses. Yet, EAP states that it "creates opportunities for young riders to advance their education in their pursuit to become professionals within our industry." Shouldn't as many participants as possible, and definitely the finalists, be planning on a career with horses then and hopefully the level 2 participants?


I just think that the USHJA needs to be honest about what they want the EAP to be. If that many of the level II group are not going into professional careers then there is a problem with the stated mission of the EAP. It is not grass roots and you don't have to be looking to become professional in the industry. Just re-write the mission so it is at least an honest one that mirrors the results from the last two years. Then participants can decide if that mission is something that they are interested in and they can make a more informed choice to participate.

[MIKES MCS]

Personally , while the USHJA may have the riding part down ( best BNT's) teaching this program, I think it misses the boat in preparing these riders as actual trainers. A real program would have had them in the barn first and not just for a weekend clinic. This program seems to perpetuate the idea of, a rider need only develope themselves as a rider in order to achieve success in the ring and passes the care onto blacksmiths, Vets, barn managers and grooms, never truly understanding proper care, maintenance, conditioning or training of the horse. We have to many young "riders" who win big Eq finals and such, hang their shingles out as trainers and then rely on everyone else to do right by the horses in their charge. They feed what ever the latest and greatest feed program is being touted in PH, or achieve obedience with some a mechanical bit designed to produce immediate results. Some of these kids may indeed make it as professional riders, unfortunately not many riders make a living just riding. Few are lucky to have the deep pockets it takes to concentrate solely on riding, the rest need to make a living. It's those others (and it's the majority) that need an intensive program based on reality. They already have the riding down.. they've trained with the best, ridden the best horses. They even know the latest and greatest cocktail, but they can't spot a bow or suspensory as it's happening, it's only when a horse is 2 legged lame before they notice anything wrong and then it's just call the vet. Achieving balance through shoeing is the Black Smiths job no need for a trainer to waste their time on that science. Even the basics such as how much water a horse should be drinking per day seems to be information best left to the groom. for the most part kids who ride with BNT's aren't encouraged to learn any of this and it isn't because they come from money, it's because the less they know, the less they will interfere with their trainers plans for them or their horses or their parents money. They don't get the education because it's easier to limit knowledge to only what the trainer wants them to know. Unless we produce an educated horseman/woman we limit the riders capabilities to only what they can achieve in the saddle with a horse that has been presented to them. If we can’t produce riders who can’t produce horses from green un-started stock , we limit ourselves to not only a pool of “just “riders we limit out pool of horse talent to only what the Europeans sell us. If all this program can do is give the already successful junior eq rider an opportunity to advance in their riding , what is it really doing. Most of these riders aren’t going trade an ivy league education and a future career in law or medicine for a pitchfork and string of lesson horses working 16 hour days. Shouldn’t the criteria for getting into this program be limited to those wishing to pursue a career as professional riders and trainers ? Otherwise what is the point?

[RyderRoo]

I guess it matters to that Taylor Adams, Dani Beavers, Lauren Ditallo, Kate Haley and Michael Kocher I believe all did Level 1 and 2 last year and came back again and did Level 1 and 2, thus now have made it to Level 3. Alexa Anthony went to Level 3 last year.

So in fact these folks have been seen 4 times each before getting to Level 3 and have worked two years in a row to get to Level 3.

Six others are new to Level 3 this year.

Many are tried and true jumper riders.

The program is great and all of your comments should make each year better and better

They may ride jumpers but they did not come up through the jumper ranks.

The question was if any of the riders came up through the jumper ranks and the answer would be no. Something for a rider that has come up through the jumper ranks to think about prior to applying to do the EAP.

[Beenthere]

Ryderoo, your actually incorrect, many did come up through the jumper ranks, pony jumpers, then Child/Adult, and then low junior jumpers so that to me is "coming up through the jumpers". Taylor Adams, of TEXAS, which is the one who made it is such an example.

As far as Mikes MCS's comments, yes they get horsemanship. They get 6 hours at Level 2 of horsemanship and about the same at Level 3 by great horsemen and vets. So I do believe they get some education on horsemanship.

[RyderRoo]

Ryderoo, your actually incorrect, many did come up through the jumper ranks, pony jumpers, then Child/Adult, and then low junior jumpers so that to me is "coming up through the jumpers". Taylor Adams, of TEXAS, which is the one who made it is such an example.

As far as Mikes MCS's comments, yes they get horsemanship. They get 6 hours at Level 2 of horsemanship and about the same at Level 3 by great horsemen and vets. So I do believe they get some education on horsemanship.

I'll give you Taylor Adams as an exception to the equitation riders but you should also state that she has quite a number of horses and has done GP, plenty of the open jumpers, and the high junior jumpers - up to 1.40 - so she has a lot more experience than many of the other riders participating in the EAP.

[SmileItLooksGoodOnYou]

Different Taylor Adams, but a huge congrats to Taylor and Dani for making level 3!

I had the pleasure of spending some time with them at levels 1 and 2 and I'm thrilled for them both.

Good luck to all!

I got an invitation to audit for free (with a friend) and was considering making a trip to Buffalo. If I do I will take some pictures and post some info.

[SmileItLooksGoodOnYou]

Oh--- and to the best of my knowledge you had to have stayed under 1.40M up until the time of the application, not after the first level of EAP was held.

While I do believe some of these riders may have stepped into the high juniors this year I'm not aware of any of them showing 1.40M BEFORE the applications were due.

[MIKES MCS]

As far as Mikes MCS's comments, yes they get horsemanship. They get 6 hours at Level 2 of horsemanship and about the same at Level 3 by great horsemen and vets. So I do believe they get some education on horsemanship.

UM Sorry but that is exactly my point. 12 hours of "horsemanship " instruction isn't even a start, it just gives them enough information to be dangerous, IE: BNT or BNV told me in EAP class this is the way to handle this lamnes injury and or problem, so now I know what to do , I'll just call the vet / blacksmith or tell the groom what the vet said to do. The buck is passed and if what they say doesn't work the horse must no be treatable.

[Cindeye]

Wow people. Way to take a nice contragulatory thread and twist it around. Way to make these hard working riders/horsemen/horsewomen feel great about what they've achieved and look forward to the next phase! Really. Good job!

[PonyPenny]

Didn't Alexa Anthony win the overall competition with Ricky Neal last year? So eventhough you win the competition you can still do it again? I am just curious.

[Seal Harbor]

Didn't Alexa Anthony win the overall competition with Ricky Neal last year? So eventhough you win the competition you can still do it again? I am just curious.No, that was her older sister, Carly Anthony who won last year along with Ricky Neal.

Alexa did participate in Level III last year but did not win it. Perhaps prior to posting stuff like this you might want to fact check first.


As an aside - congratulations to all the riders who were asked back for Level III for 2010.

[PonyPenny]

That is why I asked the question. Sorry I got the names wrong. I never said she did not deserve to be there. I was just curious and got some facts wrong. Sorry if it rattled some cages. That wasn't my intent.

[snaffle635]

Wow people. Way to take a nice contragulatory thread and twist it around. Way to make these hard working riders/horsemen/horsewomen feel great about what they've achieved and look forward to the next phase! Really. Good job!

Amen, sister!

Let's celebrate the incredible achievements of these young people. They've all worked incredibly hard to get where they are and it's an honor to make it to Level III. I'm sure some of them have overcome adversity and challenges that we will never know about. Congrats to all!!!!!

[Neely]

Amen, sister!

Let's celebrate the incredible achievements of these young people. They've all worked incredibly hard to get where they are and it's an honor to make it to Level III. I'm sure some of them have overcome adversity and challenges that we will never know about. Congrats to all!!!!!

Thank You! Are we all feeling a little bitter here? These kids worked really hard to get to this point, and the horsemanship they learn in these clinics is not meant to be a lifetime's worth of information and experience, it's meant to give them some insight and knowledge from some great, experienced professionals that they might not have access to otherwise. I think any effort to tie in horsemanship to the learning experience should be commended. It might not be a perfect system, but I know first hand that some of these kids are very talented individuals who really benefit from the experience and exposure that this program offers. Good job to any and all of them that put the effort in to go through this process!

[Roxy SM]

Thank You! Are we all feeling a little bitter here? These kids worked really hard to get to this point, and the horsemanship they learn in these clinics is not meant to be a lifetime's worth of information and experience, it's meant to give them some insight and knowledge from some great, experienced professionals that they might not have access to otherwise. I think any effort to tie in horsemanship to the learning experience should be commended. It might not be a perfect system, but I know first hand that some of these kids are very talented individuals who really benefit from the experience and exposure that this program offers. Good job to any and all of them that put the effort in to go through this process!

I think the point some are trying to make is that the kids that have a bunch of nice horses already have access to great trainers because they can afford to ride with them as regular clients in their programs. Nobody has said that they haven't worked hard to become the riders that they are. They are just saying it would be better if the program made more of an effort to include riders that cannot afford to ride with any of the really top trainers. As an earlier poster said, it would "widen the gene pool." Right now in the US, the vast vast majority of riders that are considered our future Olympians and who are getting already getting experience representing their country are children of wealthy and often famous people. Most of the rest are children of BNTs/BNRs. It's a very small group.

I totally agree with you that it is great that they have included at least a little horsemanship into the program, since as others have already said, trainers these days are only interested in creating riders, not horsemen. Soon the last generation of horsemen will be gone and the new generation of pros will be just riders and the art of horsemanship will be lost. I wonder what the level of education in the horsemanship section of the program is, since some of the riders are probably great at taking care of their horses and others probably barely know how to tack up with simple tack. Yes, there ARE riders out there showing 1.40+ that can't do much more than run up their stirrups.

[SmileItLooksGoodOnYou]

I see two sides to this.

There are backyard riders/trainers/parents posting here saying this program is unfair in what it's looking for or expecting. That their kid is plenty talented and hard working enough to be in the top 12.

Then there are riders/parents/trainers who are out there on the show circuit who say this program is solid and selecting well out of what comes to play.


There were some backyard type riders with VERY no-name trainers that came to level 1. They were not selected for level 2. This was not a prejudice, not a name game, and not a favorites thing. The riders that were not asked back had clear marks against them in their riding. Being out of control, not being able to jump a combination, not being able to counter canter on the quarter line out of the corner. While the riders that went on had skills the riders who did not lacked. Being able to counter canter around a corner or in a circle, adding and taking out strides, being able to make a decision that's different from the group and explain why it's better for your horse.

I'm hearing lots of people complain about their kid wasn't selected, etc or they can't afford to get their kid noticed in the big eq so their kid could never do EAP successfully. I think that's a load of bull.

If a rider can/a parent can afford.../a trainer can teach a kid & horse... working second/third level dressage and techniques to ride A show courses at 1.10-1.20 then EAP is accessible to them. There are plenty of kids who have lots of money for nice horses that can take them around the mojams, but lack the basic dressage foundation that they were looking for at level 1.

I'm aware of is that lots of backyard riders and trainers can get a kid jumping around a decent sized course on a good horse. But as far as I'm concerned there's a reason that backyard trainers are just that. If a trainer is taking multiple riders to A shows, showing horses at A shows themselves, and putting in successful rides at that level I no longer consider them backyard.

Until USHJA puts a cap on family annual income or number of shows applying riders have done in the past year backyard riders will be riding alongside show vet kids at EAP. And as long as backyard training stays what it is show vet riders with established trainers will win out.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone entering a clinic at 1.20M should be able to counter canter a circle on the horse they ride at that level and anyone riding at 1.10M should have jumped a combination and a dry liverpool before showing up to something like EAP.

[maddyh]

UM Sorry but that is exactly my point. 12 hours of "horsemanship " instruction isn't even a start, it just gives them enough information to be dangerous, IE: BNT or BNV told me in EAP class this is the way to handle this lamnes injury and or problem, so now I know what to do , I'll just call the vet / blacksmith or tell the groom what the vet said to do. The buck is passed and if what they say doesn't work the horse must no be treatable.

I think you are underestimating the level of horsemanship that most of these riders have(especially at level II).
My daughter has participated for two years now and the quality of riders at Level II this year was very high, and most of these kids also really seemed to know their stuff off the horse as well. More importantly, all seemed VERY eager to learn everything they could.

[Roxy SM]

I see two sides to this.

There are backyard riders/trainers/parents posting here saying this program is unfair in what it's looking for or expecting. That their kid is plenty talented and hard working enough to be in the top 12.

Then there are riders/parents/trainers who are out there on the show circuit who say this program is solid and selecting well out of what comes to play.


There were some backyard type riders with VERY no-name trainers that came to level 1. They were not selected for level 2. This was not a prejudice, not a name game, and not a favorites thing. The riders that were not asked back had clear marks against them in their riding. Being out of control, not being able to jump a combination, not being able to counter canter on the quarter line out of the corner. While the riders that went on had skills the riders who did not lacked. Being able to counter canter around a corner or in a circle, adding and taking out strides, being able to make a decision that's different from the group and explain why it's better for your horse.

I'm hearing lots of people complain about their kid wasn't selected, etc or they can't afford to get their kid noticed in the big eq so their kid could never do EAP successfully. I think that's a load of bull.

If a rider can/a parent can afford.../a trainer can teach a kid & horse... working second/third level dressage and techniques to ride A show courses at 1.10-1.20 then EAP is accessible to them. There are plenty of kids who have lots of money for nice horses that can take them around the mojams, but lack the basic dressage foundation that they were looking for at level 1.

I'm aware of is that lots of backyard riders and trainers can get a kid jumping around a decent sized course on a good horse. But as far as I'm concerned there's a reason that backyard trainers are just that. If a trainer is taking multiple riders to A shows, showing horses at A shows themselves, and putting in successful rides at that level I no longer consider them backyard.

Until USHJA puts a cap on family annual income or number of shows applying riders have done in the past year backyard riders will be riding alongside show vet kids at EAP. And as long as backyard training stays what it is show vet riders with established trainers will win out.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone entering a clinic at 1.20M should be able to counter canter a circle on the horse they ride at that level and anyone riding at 1.10M should have jumped a combination and a dry liverpool before showing up to something like EAP.

There is a big difference between backyard riders and riders that have a string of show horses in training with a BNT. There is also a big gap between backyard trainers and BNTs with plenty in between. What about riders who can only afford to have one horse that doesn't have scope past 1.20 and ride with trainers that have given them a solid foundation but cannot teach them the sophistication needed at the higher levels. Just because a trainer isn't a BNT doesn't mean they aren't teaching their riders correct riding, but perhaps they cannot teach that next level of sophistication. I think these are the riders that would benefit most from this program. I agree that the truly backyard riders aren't ideal because any concepts that the trainers at EAP would be tecahing would probably be over their heads as they are usually lacking even the basics.

[Neely]

There is a big difference between backyard riders and riders that have a string of show horses in training with a BNT. There is also a big gap between backyard trainers and BNTs with plenty in between. What about riders who can only afford to have one horse that doesn't have scope past 1.20 and ride with trainers that have given them a solid foundation but cannot teach them the sophistication needed at the higher levels. Just because a trainer isn't a BNT doesn't mean they aren't teaching their riders correct riding, but perhaps they cannot teach that next level of sophistication. I think these are the riders that would benefit most from this program. I agree that the truly backyard riders aren't ideal because any concepts that the trainers at EAP would be tecahing would probably be over their heads as they are usually lacking even the basics.

Exactly. And the term backyard riders may seem demeaning, but in my case it truly is not. It's just that in order to perform at the level that these clinics are aimed toward, you have to have a good foundation and at least some experience. There are PLENTY of riders out there in this category, that have a good foundation but lack the funds to get the training that the EAP offers. It's unfortunate that some riders with talent and drive don't get the training that can get them to this point, but it is reality. The whole focus of the program would have to change if it became all about riders that have limited or no "A" rated showing experience. A new program to find some of these kids would be great though!

[RyderRoo]

There is a big difference between backyard riders and riders that have a string of show horses in training with a BNT. There is also a big gap between backyard trainers and BNTs with plenty in between. What about riders who can only afford to have one horse that doesn't have scope past 1.20 and ride with trainers that have given them a solid foundation but cannot teach them the sophistication needed at the higher levels. Just because a trainer isn't a BNT doesn't mean they aren't teaching their riders correct riding, but perhaps they cannot teach that next level of sophistication. I think these are the riders that would benefit most from this program. I agree that the truly backyard riders aren't ideal because any concepts that the trainers at EAP would be tecahing would probably be over their heads as they are usually lacking even the basics.

There were some backyard type riders with VERY no-name trainers that came to level 1. They were not selected for level 2. This was not a prejudice, not a name game, and not a favorites thing. The riders that were not asked back had clear marks against them in their riding. Being out of control, not being able to jump a combination, not being able to counter canter on the quarter line out of the corner. While the riders that went on had skills the riders who did not lacked. Being able to counter canter around a corner or in a circle, adding and taking out strides, being able to make a decision that's different from the group and explain why it's better for your horse.

I'm hearing lots of people complain about their kid wasn't selected, etc or they can't afford to get their kid noticed in the big eq so their kid could never do EAP successfully. I think that's a load of bull.

If a rider can/a parent can afford.../a trainer can teach a kid & horse... working second/third level dressage and techniques to ride A show courses at 1.10-1.20 then EAP is accessible to them. There are plenty of kids who have lots of money for nice horses that can take them around the mojams, but lack the basic dressage foundation that they were looking for at level 1.

Just because you ride with a trainer that isn't a "big name" doesn't mean you don't have the basics. THAT is a huge assumption. I actually almost think that is rude. What a concept, that if you don't ride with a BNT then you won't have a good foundation.

I'll tell you what is not an assumption. Everyone who applied is a member of the USHJA and pays dues.

Like I said.. if it is the case that you need great eq (like winning big eq medals eq), a decent named trainer, and an experienced horse or two to make it to level III then the USHJA should just re-state the mission for this program. That it isn't grass roots and that experience is required for this and it isn't necessarily for people looking to be professionals in the business. Don't waste peoples time and money who don't have excess to spare. Let them spend their money in other ways that will benefit them more - and believe me there are a lot of better ways to spend this kind of money. If this is for the few then state that and be done with it. Let us all move on.

and for those who don't know what the EAP mission is - here you go:

The mission of the Emerging Athletes Program (EAP) is to develop complete horsemen by implementing a system of identifying and nurturing talented young riders and providing them with support and assistance in achieving their full potential. This program creates opportunities for young riders to advance their education in their pursuit to become professionals within our industry. Click here for the list of Emerging Athlete Committe Members.

This is what they ask for on the application:

Participants in the 2010 EAP Level I Training Sessions will be selected based on the information provided in the application, including but not limited to merit, competition record and recommendations.

And then they pick people to move on without telling anyone on what basis they do so. That is a problem.

Noone is bitter. Noone is resentful. But it does bug me that the USHJA couldn't fund this without the little guys attending level I. And it bugs me that some people would be so depracating towards the "backyard riders" in the level I whom they don't think are good riders or should not, I guess, even have been there. If all those "backyard" or "lesser" riders choose not to apply next year what would happen to the program?

I just wish that the USHJA would be honest about the EAP and its goals. Heck I'll vote that Smileitlooksgoodonyou is their spokesperson. At least everyone will know what everyone else thinks of them and what the truth is about what the mission of the EAP is.

[Equsrider]

not something I wrote, but something I believe to be true....

According to each rider, equitation or horsemanship (http://www.writingofriding.com/tag/horsemanship/) has a different meaning. Some popular themes run along these lines:

Encyclopedia Britannica – (horsemanship)Art (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0);) of training, riding, and handling horses. Good horsemanship requires that a rider control the animal’s direction, gait, and speed with maximum effectiveness and minimum effort. Natural aids are a rider’s balance, hands, voice, and legs; artificial aids include bits, reins, saddles, and spurs. Horsemanship was important to cavalrymen and cowboys, and is the fundamental element of dressage.
(equitation)A rider’s ability to ride correctly with a strong, supple position and effective aids. This is judged in equitation classes, or classes at horse shows that mainly judge the rider’s performance (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0);) and control of their horse, as opposed to the performance of the horse. Equitation classes occur in the Hunt seat, Saddle seat, Dressage, and Western disciplines. A good equitation rider is always in balance with the horse, maintains a correct position in every gait, movement, or over a fence, and possesses a commanding, but relaxed, presence. They are effective riders, able to direct (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0);) the horse with nearly invisible aids.
Dictionary (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0);) - (horsemanship) The skill of riding horses; equitation. (equitation) The art and practice of riding a horse.When we are in the pursuit of knowledge, attempting to glean it from every viable source, it helps always to know whose definition of equitation we are gleaning that knowledge from. For many they answer number one to different reasons – money, ego, curiosity. What is the *best* definition of equitation? I suppose it is best for each of us in turn to answer that question for ourselves. In the interim, I will gladly explain what my definition of equitation is and why I pursue it, so that in some small feat of discovery, you may know where this potential knowledge is being gleaned from…
So Much More
To me, equitation is not in and of itself about the interaction (http://www.writingofriding.com/tag/interaction/) with the horse. It is, and it isn’t. Like everything there is a yes and a no, a left and a right, an up and a down. Coupled with this is the third element, the middle, the balance. Between the yes and a no there is a maybe. Between the up and the down there is a center. Balance is a key element to much more than the context of the horse, but applies in full right to every facet of our lives. .
Ourselves
The horse is a perfect mirror (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0);) to us. We can find mirrors in other people as well, but they are often tainted with their own interpretations and expectations (http://www.writingofriding.com/tag/expectations/), fears and beliefs. The horse on the other hand can give us a picture perfect reflection of ourselves. The horse gives us an open opportunity (http://www.writingofriding.com/tag/opportunity/) in every interaction, every meeting, every moment. When the horse is strong, we are strong, when he is light we are light.
When I see a horse reacting, evading, misbehaving – the thought comes to mind of what as a rider and person can I improve. Where am I lacking the refinement or understanding to improve the communication (http://www.writingofriding.com/tag/communication/), to encourage the horse back to a balanced place. That is how I look at equitation – a skill of self-refinement. Much compassion is needed, because in the horse we must see ourselves to understand the mirror. And, in all of this there is still more. In the mirror there is transparency, and somewhere in the middle is the balance point. To see ourselves, see our horse, and see ourselves in our horse.
http://www.writingofriding.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-spamfree/img/wpsf-img.php

and so my interpretation...
Good Equitation, Great Equitaion is alot more than looking good on a horse.It is and always will be the basis of a solid foundation of training a horse to be balanced, correct,and supple.
Form follows function and function follows form....one cannot have one without the other...Will all great Eq riders be great Jumper riders?NO, alot aren't brave enough, and that's okay,but for those who are they will excell much quicker because they understand the balance, correctnees, and suppliness needed to get the job done....I feel confident in stating that MOST great jumper riders are also Great EQ riders whether they showed in the EQ or not!There are always exceptions to this,and that is great that there are exceptions, everyone should have their own style, not just mimick the current fad. The fact remains, for most of the world, being able to Equitate well, means you can observe, correct amd engage your horse in proper form...and that takes years to polish!!Does it mean you win some BIG EQ Final, for a very slight few, but that doesn't mean there aren't hundreds of Great Eq riders out there.....or Great jumper riders too!

[Midge]

They may ride jumpers but they did not come up through the jumper ranks.

The question was if any of the riders came up through the jumper ranks and the answer would be no. Something for a rider that has come up through the jumper ranks to think about prior to applying to do the EAP.

I am not steeped in all things EAP, but I have had several conversations with people involved with the program. I also know a couple of the kids who went.

Many of the riders were basically failing before the jumps got high. These riders were not just needing the opportunity to have a 3'6" horse in order to shine, they were not competent. Lack of almost basic flatwork and an inability to do basic gymnastics work. It was not a lack of a 3'6" horse, it was a lack of basics. Basics that should be in place for someone who expected to make a living as a rider.

One of the kids I know had basically no junior career but he is enormously talented, rides for a college team and came to the attention of BNTs when he rode in clinics, then became a summer intern. I think this is the type of student the program is looking for. He is very talented, but poor and could easily fall between the cracks. He did level 1 on a college donation. He rode in level 2 on a horse he had only ridden one time before and moved on to level 3. No equitation career, no junior jumpers.

I think kids and parents in general have a grossly overexaggerated opinion of their own abilities. I 'broke' a two year old when I was 14 and thought the owner was so damn lucky to have me for free. Now, I know I was lucky I wasn't killed and that the horse turned out okay in spite of me. Kids just don't know how much they don't know. If they are all sour grapes-y about not moving forward instead of understanding where they were lacking, they certainly don't have the mentality to work with young horses who are going to spend six months coming up with the evasion of the week.

Go back home. Learn more. Try again next year.

Congratulations to all the great riders at Level 3!!!

[Roxy SM]

I think kids and parents in general have a grossly overexaggerated opinion of their own abilities. !!!

Hehe that would be a major understatement. Even on these boards more often than not when a mom posts about their daughter who rides within the first couple of sentences they've included the word "talented."

[Beenthere]

Midge, I know who you speak of in your post and it would not surprise me if he wins at Level 3 and if so, the program did what it should do, found great talent. This is not taking away from everyone, they are all talented and I wish there could be 12 winners :)

[ponymom64]

Firstly, congratulations to all that are going on to Level III! What a great accomplishment!

Secondly, it seems that participants who haven't made it through feel like they don't know why - perhaps the next step for the USHJA, would be to provide some sort of checklist (within reason) for those participants so they know the areas they were judged to be weak in. I'm sure it is time consuming, but it seems like it would be helpful for these riders to have a specific idea of things they need to improve on should they want to try again in subsequent years.

[Midge]

ponymom, that would be a good idea. It seems funding is in trouble for the full program next year so another alternative might be to develop a checklist of things the kids should know before applying. Then Level One could be videos of a specific, predetermined length demonstrating the things required.

Maybe it could be scored like a dressage test so the kid that got a six on his canter/trot transition and a four on his compressed line would know he doesn't really understand collection. It would make the program cheaper to run and more kids could try out, since it wouldn't mean a trip somewhere just for the try out.

[adhock]

Sorry that earlier I didn't congratulate the finalists, and I would like to add a hearty whoot!

I do think this is a work in progress and I hope that it is constantly being refined. Maybe the process is more important than the "finals." Kids who have exposure can opt to use it as a springboard for opportunities like being a working student (which is how my kid got all of her opportunities and learned, literally, from the shavings up). I do believe the cream rises, but it rises easiest where there's access. Second, I really love the idea of a horse management track, as well as a course designing track. This sport needs more educated professionals, and this could be a step forward--starting with better mentoring (yet doing this in a way that does not take advantage of young people). My kid was so blessed to work (as a young teen) for people like Katie and Henri Prudent in France, for John and Beezie Madden in Calgary, and for Beacon Hill, where she's now working (as a professional) while pursuing her college degree at Princeton. All of these wonderful people (and others like Karen Healey) contributed to her development as a horse person and as a professional--as mentors, as trainers, but also as bosses, and she was always treated with utmost respect and compensated fairly for her contributions. I don't think that the EAP is a substitute for this type of intense, hands-on experience. It could (and should be) a conduit. My kid just lucked into this--but it was easier because we lived in SoCal, where there were many opportunities, even if you didn't own a fancy horse. Others are not so lucky, and that's where I think, the EAP will make its greatest contribution.

[ponymom64]

I'm surprised to read that funding is an issue! One would think with the amount of dues USHJA collects from its members - programs would be well funded ;)

Midge, your idea of a pre screening video is an excellent one - it would be a way for everyone to know what types of basic skills one needs, it could also be an opportunity for the applicant to discuss the type of horse they are riding (green, made up, limited, etc) - then it could give the screeners an ability to look past the horse as necessary - where perhaps a talented rider is held back by his/her mount.

It could be taken one step further in that the videos could be sent in with no specific trainer attached - just the video showing the required skills by the rider and a description of the horse. If the skills presented are sufficient to potentially advance to a clinic level, maybe then the rider resume could come into the equation.......

[juststartingout]

Hehe that would be a major understatement. Even on these boards more often than not when a mom posts about their daughter who rides within the first couple of sentences they've included the word "talented."

Sometimes true ... OTOH there are just as many parents who underestimate their children's talents .... IMHO its unfair to assume that parents accurately assess their children either positively or negatively - instead the proof is in what the child is able to achieve. And yes.... not having the horse because of money, access or knowledge makes this more difficult but not impossible.

There are any number of kids on mediocre horses who go to a limited handful of "A" shows and more than hold their own. Many are well trained and also knowledgeable about horse care (a number are caring fully for their own horses in order to afford the little they do compete). That does not mean they get noticed or identified or supported to reach the next level.

To a large extent we have to acknowledge and accept that the costs of this sport limit opportunities. For every Julie Welles or Zazou Hoffman who worked hard, had talent, was identified and mentored there are many many equally talented hard working kids who despite all their efforts did not have luck and timing combine to afford them the opportunity to move up and excel.

.... and hopefully programs like this increase the possibilities for those kids. (But its important to be honest - create opportunity and at the same time let kids know how difficult/unlikely reaching the top is.....)

So support for this program is important - its a large step in the right direction.... even more is needed.... particularly perhaps for a wider age group who are looking toward a professional career - growing the next generation of trainers and horsemen doesn't stop at 18 or 21 etc.....

[MIKES MCS]

I see two sides to this.
There were some backyard type riders with VERY no-name trainers that came to level 1. They were not selected for level 2. This was not a prejudice, not a name game, and not a favorites thing. The riders that were not asked back had clear marks against them in their riding. Being out of control, not being able to jump a combination, not being able to counter canter on the quarter line out of the corner. While the riders that went on had skills the riders who did not lacked. Being able to counter canter around a corner or in a circle, adding and taking out strides, being able to make a decision that's different from the group and explain why it's better for your horse. .

So were those backyard kids able to switch and demonstrate they too can counter canter on a rel EQ horse. Were those riders who were so impressive asked to get on the lesser trained horses and asked to get them around a course? I remember when Bert De Nemethy demanded riders switch horses at the trials, it was interesting to see a rider who brought a OTTB who she had been training for only 6 months herself given the opportunity to ride Sandsablaze and vice versa. Both did an excellent job with each others horses.
But that was then this is now and so it goes, those riders who can afford to BUY need not learn how to train, it just isn't as important when there are so many fine trained horses in Europe who can be bought for what ever price you can afford. The pool of knowledge grows smaller and smaller. I think someday we will see robot horses , perhaps there is a plus side to that, we will no longer consider a horse a disposable item. Then the rider will just employee a mechanic , afterall race car drivers don't wrench on there cars they just drive.

[Beenthere]

MIKE I agree that the future hold robotic horses and riders because we are losing the "time is the saddle" training with trainers rushing students to get in the show ring on made up horses.

That said, in the sessions I attended this year, almost every rider CAME with a borrowed horse that they never rode before the sessions started and they did an excellent job with their borrowed horses (and no they were not all made, and in fact some where very green).

Must we remember this is a start up program with lots of ideas spiraling about what it should be. Frankly I don't believe in swapping horses at clinics. The program is to select talent and help it along. I am sure if you speak to the committee they will agree that EVERY rider displayed talent in certain areas, however, only a small percentage displayed talent in alot of areas, such that they would move on.

I think people are looking way too deep into what EAP is designed for and need to realize that it is a work in progress in reaching the best possible program in years to come. Mistakes will be made. Constructive criticism from those that participated or the community at large is always helpful and those comments should be directed to USHJA for consideration.

Judging on the selection of EAP Level 3 riders I think it is a wonderful diversity of talent from many walks of the equine world. From unknowns to kindof known to some knowns.

Hooray to those riders and we wish them all much success in Buffalo in New York (and to stay warm)!

[MIKES MCS]

I have one other question. I did not realize this was a competition with winners and losers , I thought it was an educational opportunity to help develope future professional riders? What does the winner get and what is the monetary value of the prize?

[SmileItLooksGoodOnYou]

Firstly, congratulations to all that are going on to Level III! What a great accomplishment!

Secondly, it seems that participants who haven't made it through feel like they don't know why - perhaps the next step for the USHJA, would be to provide some sort of checklist (within reason) for those participants so they know the areas they were judged to be weak in. I'm sure it is time consuming, but it seems like it would be helpful for these riders to have a specific idea of things they need to improve on should they want to try again in subsequent years.

I'm not at all convinced that riders who didn't make it don't know why... unwilling to admit why, sure. I know exactly why I didn't make it.


I have one other question. I did not realize this was a competition with winners and losers , I thought it was an educational opportunity to help develope future professional riders? What does the winner get and what is the monetary value of the prize?

The two winners last year got a $1500 Dover gift card and a month of training with a top pro.

[Roxy SM]

To a large extent we have to acknowledge and accept that the costs of this sport limit opportunities. For every Julie Welles or Zazou Hoffman who worked hard, had talent, was identified and mentored there are many many equally talented hard working kids who despite all their efforts did not have luck and timing combine to afford them the opportunity to move up and excel.



While they are fortunate that their talent and work ethic got them access to trainers and horses they otherwise never would have been able to afford, now despite very successful junior careers they watch as the wealthier riders that they very often beat as juniors are able to move into the 1.60s, competing at Spruce and in Europe, the World Cup, some even get on a Nations Cup team here and there. Zazou and Julie earned their junior career with hard work and talent, yet those who they beat on a regular basis on a whole assortment of horses are the ones representing the US because their parents can afford to buy them capable horses. THIS is a problem with the system.

[juststartingout]

Roxy -

You echo my point - we need to acknowledge the financial limitations that are quite real in the sport..... Even the fortunate juniors like Julie and Zazou have trouble moving forward after their junior years AND they are the lucky ones!

Any program that helps truly dedicated riders/hopeful professionals is one that deserves support - even if it is not perfect. EAP is a good start at creating another forum where riders have an opportunity to be noticed - and that alone is a good thing.

[Midge]

So were those backyard kids able to switch and demonstrate they too can counter canter on a rel EQ horse.

If you can't teach your backyard horse to counter canter, you are missing basics.

[ponymom64]

If you can't teach your backyard horse to counter canter, you are missing basics.

Agreed. While I can see that many of the backyard type riders and trainers may not have the polish of those that live on the circuit, counter canter is a basic skill.

Back to Midge's point from earlier in the thread - maybe a check list of skills would be a good place to start, especially for those riders that don't have access to the big names, so they have an idea of what is expected of them before they submit their application - could be a way to avoid any hurt feelings or misconceptions.

[RyderRoo]

If you can't teach your backyard horse to counter canter, you are missing basics.

And suppose you came with your green 7 year old to the clinic. Should a horse that is green and 7 be able to counter canter? And the reason it is green and can't counter canter is because it was bought that way because it was what was affordable. Or should the horse have other things down first - oh like being well schooled and having a balanced canter? And if someone wasn't fortunate enough to know someone who would "lend" them a seasoned 3'6" to 4" horse and had to bring their green one because that is all they have should they be punished or should they not be allowed to participate? Just wondering out loud.

[Sparky]

Ryder roo, if they applied and were accepted, then of course they should be allowed to participate. I audited a level 1 last year, and there were a couple of kids in that situation. However, the clinic was not geared down to accomodate them--the exercises were like building blocks, they went on as scheduled, and when those kids reached the limit of what they were able to do, they gave it as good a try as they could and then learned from watching the rest. They made no excuses for their horses, they sincerely thanked the clinician for the opportunity and hopefully they went home with some good material to work on. Who knows, maybe they got more out of the experience than the "fortunate" ones.

[RyderRoo]

Ryder roo, if they applied and were accepted, then of course they should be allowed to participate. I audited a level 1 last year, and there were a couple of kids in that situation. However, the clinic was not geared down to accomodate them--the exercises were like building blocks, they went on as scheduled, and when those kids reached the limit of what they were able to do, they gave it as good a try as they could and then learned from watching the rest. They made no excuses for their horses, they sincerely thanked the clinician for the opportunity and hopefully they went home with some good material to work on. Who knows, maybe they got more out of the experience than the "fortunate" ones.


As did my daughter. My problem is that she wasn't told ahead of time what was expected. If she was she never would have attended. GOOD HORSEMANSHIP, WANTING TO GO PRO, TALENT as a rider is what she thought this was based on. And she thought she was there to learn - not be judged. If you are talented and your horse isn't and you need to do a counter canter to prove you have talent then there isn't a point to doing the EAP. The horse and rider would be better served somewhere else.

I feel for the people that did level 1 that are being mocked in this thread. It takes away from making it to level II because it almost sounds like they should have made it because everyone else was so darned bad.

[ponymom64]

And suppose you came with your green 7 year old to the clinic. Should a horse that is green and 7 be able to counter canter? And the reason it is green and can't counter canter is because it was bought that way because it was what was affordable. Or should the horse have other things down first - oh like being well schooled and having a balanced canter? And if someone wasn't fortunate enough to know someone who would "lend" them a seasoned 3'6" to 4" horse and had to bring their green one because that is all they have should they be punished or should they not be allowed to participate? Just wondering out loud.

If there is a will and a desire - it can be done. My daughters TB is 6, came to us a year ago with only the most basic WTC - in the past year, he has learned a lead change, has a counter canter, can compress and extend his stride, jumps around 3'6" (not perfectly, yet) and lives in our backyard. The horse has only had one or two pro rides but she trailers out to our trainer once or twice a week for a lesson. I'm not saying this to brag (she's very talented - LOL) but to illustrate if a junior knows what is expected, it can be accomplished!

I'm not meaning to show you up, on a lot of levels, I agree with what you're saying but I think the excuse of the backyard rider can't get the job done is wrong headed. If the backyard rider is determined but it does help to have an idea of what is necessary to get to the next level, many of the flatwork basics can be learned. My daughter has been lucky, she's been exposed to the big level of showing, so she knows what it takes and we're supremely lucky to have a trainer that will work with us on this level, I do feel for the all the kids that work hard and don't have their efforts recognized, I have that kid too, but to criticize the program is counterintuitive. We need to give them feedback as to what will make the program better.

Again, having a list of required skills would be a great place to start!

[Equsrider]

And suppose you came with your green 7 year old to the clinic. Should a horse that is green and 7 be able to counter canter? And the reason it is green and can't counter canter is because it was bought that way because it was what was affordable. Or should the horse have other things down first - oh like being well schooled and having a balanced canter? And if someone wasn't fortunate enough to know someone who would "lend" them a seasoned 3'6" to 4" horse and had to bring their green one because that is all they have should they be punished or should they not be allowed to participate? Just wondering out loud.
RyderRoo

Was anyone aware of how Green the horse really was at the session? and if so, teaching a horse to counter counter teaches a young green horse to be better balanced and well schooled, in my opinion....I have a 5year old baby green horse we bought last fall that had just been backed at 4. My daughter started him and he is almost as well schooled on the flat as our 13 year old veteran,counter canter, perfect lead changes, leg yields,still polishing the shoulder-ins, haunches out, and yes we ride at home in our backyard, and no the horse hasn't been prepped for her by any trainers doing the riding...and no we did not take him to EAP, too much for a baby green horses mind, in May,but he could do the things asked for the flat work as what was learned at session 1 was certainly implemented into his program as soon as we got home...

I wonder why you feel your daughter was punished?and I am sorry you felt that she was...
if the horse was not ready for that level of work perhaps it would have been in the best interest of the horse to not take him and wait until next year when he was not a green bean...just thinking out loud

[Sparky]

And she thought she was there to learn - not be judged.

I feel for the people that did level 1 that are being mocked in this thread. It takes away from making it to level II because it almost sounds like they should have made it because everyone else was so darned bad.

I think it should have been obvious to you and your daughter that she was there both to learn and be judged. After all, the final phase of EAP which presumably is her goal, is a competition. And IMO you are just wrong to think anyone is being mocked. But as ponymom said, not everyone's hard work is always going to be recognized and rewarded. A huge part of intuitive horsemanship is to take a good hard look and be objective about what your mount is capable of currently and to step back if the answer is "not quite yet"

[RyderRoo]

RyderRoo

Was anyone aware of how Green the horse really was at the session? and if so, teaching a horse to counter counter teaches a young green horse to be better balanced and well schooled, in my opinion....I have a 5year old baby green horse we bought last fall that had just been backed at 4. My daughter started him and he is almost as well schooled on the flat as our 13 year old veteran,counter canter, perfect lead changes, leg yields,still polishing the shoulder-ins, haunches out, and yes we ride at home in our backyard, and no the horse hasn't been prepped for her by any trainers doing the riding...and no we did not take him to EAP, too much for a baby green horses mind, in May,but he could do the things asked for the flat work as what was learned at session 1 was certainly implemented into his program as soon as we got home...

I wonder why you feel your daughter was punished?and I am sorry you felt that she was...
if the horse was not ready for that level of work perhaps it would have been in the best interest of the horse to not take him and wait until next year when he was not a green bean...just thinking out loud

In hindsight it would have been better not to have attended. Now we know.

[RyderRoo]

I think it should have been obvious to you and your daughter that she was there both to learn and be judged. After all, the final phase of EAP which presumably is her goal, is a competition. And IMO you are just wrong to think anyone is being mocked. But as ponymom said, not everyone's hard work is always going to be recognized and rewarded. A huge part of intuitive horsemanship is to take a good hard look and be objective about what your mount is capable of currently and to step back if the answer is "not quite yet"

And yes I know it was a competition. I said the horse couldn't counter canter, never said it couldn't jump the moon. Horse is a really good jumper, just doesn't have basics so it had to be taught the basics. But it could easily make it through combinations, liver pools, water, tight roll backs, full courses of 4' and do it all cleanly. That wasn't the problem. Flat work was.

And IMO you are just wrong to think anyone is being mocked

Are you serious? Go back and read what was said about the level I riders. I am done now because I can feel myself getting mad. Hindsight is 20/20 and I don't think it is a program created for everyone. MHO but there it is.

Adios.

[cantercutie]

I have no personal experience with the EAP but have read a lot about it and know people that have done it. First off, a huge congrats to all those who made it through to the end -- I know that a lot of good riders started out so to be picked until the end is a huge accomplishment! Good job!

As far as it not being "grass roots" enough, all these kids show at least some on the A circuit, so it's not going to be that grass roots anyways. Also, I would argue that these riders are much less known than those that were selected for Level III last year. I haven't heard of most of these riders (and I am fairly in touch with the national scene) and, from what I found out about them in quick searches, it definitely does not look like they are all equitation- based. If you want real grass roots, check out the AHJF Junior Challenge.

On the Zazou Hoffman/Julie Welles comment, in my opinion, it is too soon to say anything definitive about those riders yet. Most riders don't receive international acclaim until they are in their thirties anyway and Julie is what, 23? Zazou is busy with college and Julie's hard work and talent have afforded her opportunities in the riding world she only could have dreamed of ten years ago -- she is working for Laura Kraut and showing Laura's young horses. She did very well at the European Young Jumper Finals this year too ... Granted, her dad may not have a string of World Cup horses for her like Brianne, but she is networking and learning a ton and will get there. Maybe it will take a little more time, but that's how it was in the olden days: riders would age out and apprentice themselves to other riders to learn the trade before going pro.

Additionally, to any riders that didn't make it this year, kudos on getting into the program in the first place and going and giving it your all. Go home, keep up the good work, and try again next year. If your horse is green, keep training and maybe wait out on applying until he is ready, too.

[HARROLDhasmyheart]

Don't care much about the argument or what have you, but:
A HUGE CONGRATULATIONS TO ALI CORNISH!!! One of the most humble, hardworking people that I have met, and an amazing friend to boot :).

[maddyh]

In reply to MIKES MCS, the issue of switching horses was brought up at the Level II that my daughter attended. Unfortunately, many riders are there with borrowed and leased horses who are prohibited from letting anyone else get on their mounts. My daughter was very flattered that Melanie, along with many of the other riders, said that they would like to ride HER horse. Interestingly, he is an appendix with a mind of his own...completely unlike most of the warmbloods in attendence!
I can see the validtiy in most of the opinions posted, but I feel that the program is trying to achieve its stated mission because my daughter is "that" rider. She rides a horse no one else really wanted, doesn't go to many A shows (3-5 local A's) and I doubt anyone would know her trainer. However, she works her tail off, is obsessed with flatwork, will ride anything and really wants to learn. She attended Level I last year and made it through to Level II this year. She is disappointed not to have advanced, but has the utmost admiration and respect for the riders that were chosen to advance from her group. She is determined to work hard this winter and will try again next year.
The girls chosen to advance did have beautiful horses, but I believe that Melanie and her clinicians were taking many factors into account. There were a few riders on more difficult mounts...it was obvious and most of us waching could appreciate what those riders were able to accomplish. I took secret pride in the fact that I don't think many people there had any idea that my daughter's horse can be a tough ride.
At any rate, I think that the USHJA would love to get input from its mebers. I applaud them for trying to help young riders reach their goals. The sad reality is that money talks (and buys REALLY nice horses) and there will always be talented riders that can't get to the next level due to the lack of monetary resources. But any attempt to encourage these kids to keep learning and keep trying to advance is a good thing in my book.

[Sparky]

maddyh, certain posters should frame what you wrote and hang it where they can read it every day. Great insight and well said.

[maddyh]

Thanks Sparky...I took so long to write my post (and put my kids to bed) that I missed a few of the latest posts before mine.
In regards to what RyderRoo said about flatwork being the problem: that's a huge problem! The first year my daughter did EAP, here were many riders who could get around a 3'6 course, but really had no flatwork basics. They just didn't seem to understand the importance of it, especially when those fences go up! They had apparently never heard that adage that a jumper course is just flatwork with some speedbumps thrown in. I remember one COTHer said, after attending a Level I session, that "it seems cavaletti is a lost art." Sad but true, for many riders. I don't care if you are a backyard rider or if you ride with a BNT, you've got to know how important flatwork is!!
When the session ended, Melanie asked all the riders what was next for them. Most responded that they were headed to Culpepper or wherever...I was never so proud as when my daughter answered "I'm headed home to do more flatwork."

[Midge]

And suppose you came with your green 7 year old to the clinic. Should a horse that is green and 7 be able to counter canter? And the reason it is green and can't counter canter is because it was bought that way because it was what was affordable. Or should the horse have other things down first - oh like being well schooled and having a balanced canter? And if someone wasn't fortunate enough to know someone who would "lend" them a seasoned 3'6" to 4" horse and had to bring their green one because that is all they have should they be punished or should they not be allowed to participate? Just wondering out loud.

I stuggle with the idea that one would expect a green seven year old to jump 3'6" in an intensive situation when it can't even counter canter????

And since I have a green six year old bought under those exact circumstances, yes I think it should have a balanced canter and one of the ways you get a balanced canter is by counter cantering. My green six year old, who can now counter canter, I hope will be ready to start the pre greens December 1st. Hopefully, the bits of his education that will make a 3' hunter course a challenge will come together by then.

[Beenthere]

I might be wrong about this, but I "think" at Level 3 all riders are provided a horse thus they all become catch riders :)