PDA

View Full Version : Video Comparison Of my App Stallion



shawneeAcres
Sep. 23, 2010, 12:18 PM
I posted this video a couple of weeks ago of my stallion showing in training test 4, after having two years off work and was back in training since mid-june, being ridden three days weekly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtPW19ruYGc

At the time I said I felt he was being rushed, causing him to fall on forehand and "Curl up" behind the bit.

This is him schooling today at home with my assistant trainer (different rider than the girl showing him):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYcTvGxtuRc

I think his rythum is very good, he still has plenty of impulsion, needs a bit more "connection" but at least not going behind the vertical and diving down, and seems to be carrying himself better, altho not totally off the forehand. We also took of the flash and put him in a loose ting snaffle. Seems to be the right direction, any comments or helpful advice?

NOMIOMI1
Sep. 23, 2010, 12:33 PM
Honestly I cant compare the two.

The second video isnt really showing any kind of connection. The horse is just going along so in the first video where you have some fight over him not wanting to stay in the bridle (perfectly normal) the second one he is left alone so he really doesnt have to work as much and therefore the fight is gone, but he also isnt using himself as much as he could.

Most people think at this stage long reins means long frame but really the hand can be more towards the mouth with this rider and a shorter rein.

He looks very hunterish in this video, which is fine, but he needs to learn connection eventually :)

Lovely boy :)

shawneeAcres
Sep. 23, 2010, 12:38 PM
Yes I agree, I feel we may have to take one step back to get two stpes forward if you know what I mean. This was a 30 minutes long sessions compressed (by editing) into something more manageable. Towards the end of the video, when she does some "figure eights" he is getting more connection and more step underneath himself, carrying himself a bit more, or at least it appears that way to me. THis is just her second ever ride on him, and frankly she is a jumper rider, not dressage. I will be working him this weekend and have a lesson Monday on him. But most of the time I will be "on my own", until we do the Verne Batchelder clinic end of OCtober.

NOMIOMI1
Sep. 23, 2010, 12:40 PM
It shows that he is freer and moving forward nicely, but it just makes me wanna yell for some bending and leg yeilds lol.

Still progress is progress :)

grayarabpony
Sep. 23, 2010, 01:16 PM
He looks a lot happier in the second video -- traveling long and low in his body and using himself well. Good for training level. Just the kind of work he needs to build himself up.

He'll need even more impulsion to use himself better, since he looks fairly straight at this point.

The rider looks good on him but I don't think she'll be able to do more than training level dressage on him in that saddle. Her legs are so far in front of her seat.

shawneeAcres
Sep. 23, 2010, 01:25 PM
This rider is just schooling him so that I can video, she would not be competing on him in dressage. His topline really has not yet built back up, I hate that I had to stop working him a couple years ago, he was SO much better, really carrying himself etc. But with the new farm and obligations to my clients, he had a vacation!

WBLover
Sep. 23, 2010, 01:47 PM
I just wanted to say that I have a "Sparky" too! That's my new guy's barn name--LOVE IT!

Not qualified to critique, but I think he's a lovely boy, and quite the gentleman for being a stallion!

rabicon
Sep. 23, 2010, 02:02 PM
I've always thought he's a beautiful appy. I really like him. But to the matter at hand. The first video the rider is asking a little more from him but with her bouncing hands and reins flopping at moments he is taking advantage of that and rushing around and not carrying himself and throwing in the head tossing. Video 2 shows him as an hunter/english pleasure type horse with no contact really and to me is not being pushed to do as much as in video one. Rider in 2 looks more of a hunter rider and that saddle is a horrible fit for her in hunters or dressage. I like rider 1 on him with her learning a little more about a half halt and holding him together when she pushes for impulsion and not letting him rush instead. Horses will rush thru it if they can because its easier to do that then to actually lift and use their butts. So in turn the rider has to be strong enough to hold him togther to keep him from rushing. (Not all horses but a lot of green dressage horses). I understand he is not in perfect shape so keep working it slow with the first rider maybe, but she really needs to work on not being so handsy and learn what a real half halt is instead of the bump bump down method. If you know what I mean with that, if not I'll explain. But if you have a stronger dressage rider to get on him then that might be an even better option. I do like him though ;)

shawneeAcres
Sep. 23, 2010, 02:10 PM
I've always thought he's a beautiful appy. I really like him. But to the matter at hand. The first video the rider is asking a little more from him but with her bouncing hands and reins flopping at moments he is taking advantage of that and rushing around and not carrying himself and throwing in the head tossing. Video 2 shows him as an hunter/english pleasure type horse with no contact really and to me is not being pushed to do as much as in video one. Rider in 2 looks more of a hunter rider and that saddle is a horrible fit for her in hunters or dressage. I like rider 1 on him with her learning a little more about a half halt and holding him together when she pushes for impulsion and not letting him rush instead. Horses will rush thru it if they can because its easier to do that then to actually lift and use their butts. So in turn the rider has to be strong enough to hold him togther to keep him from rushing. (Not all horses but a lot of green dressage horses). I understand he is not in perfect shape so keep working it slow with the first rider maybe, but she really needs to work on not being so handsy and learn what a real half halt is instead of the bump bump down method. If you know what I mean with that, if not I'll explain. But if you have a stronger dressage rider to get on him then that might be an even better option. I do like him though ;)

Rider 1 is an event trainer who has ridden him quite a bit thru the years, he is not longer with her as we brought him home. Rider 2 is a very nice, sympathetic rider with a jumper background who schools a lot of young horses here at my farm and I LOVE her! She is not at all schooled in "dressage" however. I personally plan to be riding him more now. I did ride him some a few years back before the new farm got in the way, and now I am going to make the time to continue to work with him. I have more of a dressage background than my assistant (#2) having ridden thru second level, but has been a few years since I really did much competing etc. The only drawback is that he is somewhat small for me. But I adore this horse, he is SUCH an incredibly quiet and easy horse, I mean at Amanda's barn they said he was "the best mannered gelding in the barn"! LOL I also feel he has nice gaits and is pretty uphill for an app, so we will hopefully get him back into better fitness and go from there. My plans are to clinic with some good dressag trainers thru the year and try and start slowly working up the levels as much as my very bad back and hip allows!

Go Fish
Sep. 23, 2010, 02:43 PM
Ever jumped this horse?

You're going to hate me, but I think he looks like a hunter, and not a bad one at that. :)

NOMIOMI1
Sep. 23, 2010, 03:17 PM
As a stallion prospect in hunters you'd have to make sure he had one HELL of a step unless he were to just do baby greens and those heights. How tall is he?

I think dressage will be a great start for him either way, but I think a little bit of contact and lateral will go a long way now that you have him trucking along so nicely.

shawneeAcres
Sep. 23, 2010, 03:46 PM
This horse has been evented some thru Novice and done a little bit of jumpers and hunters (very little). here he is jumping a couple years ago in a lesson with a working student:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2WGXCg-zkc&NR=1

He has a big canter stride and is 16.1, but tends to be a bit lazy. He doesn't really like eventing he will do it, but jsut doesnt' want to gallop CC that much. He is very blaise about jumping, but we do plan to do a bit later this fall and maybe dabble in some hunters. But honestly I think dressage is really his "thing". He also has been trained to drive, so he is quite versatile and LOVES to hack out on trails. His foals are all awesome movers and very sensible. Here is a filly by him out of a TB mare, she was three at the time (last summer) and was jsut started under saddle. SHe is now four and really an awesome horse!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUjsc0LOceM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS5KPV9kux0&feature=related

Blue Domino
Sep. 23, 2010, 04:05 PM
Love the 2nd video, just exactly how connected a training level horse should be schooling.

Nice horse.

Go Fish
Sep. 23, 2010, 04:10 PM
This horse has been evented some thru Novice and done a little bit of jumpers and hunters (very little). here he is jumping a couple years ago in a lesson with a working student:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2WGXCg-zkc&NR=1

He has a big canter stride and is 16.1, but tends to be a bit lazy. He doesn't really like eventing he will do it, but jsut doesnt' want to gallop CC that much. He is very blaise about jumping, but we do plan to do a bit later this fall and maybe dabble in some hunters. But honestly I think dressage is really his "thing". He also has been trained to drive, so he is quite versatile and LOVES to hack out on trails. His foals are all awesome movers and very sensible. Here is a filly by him out of a TB mare, she was three at the time (last summer) and was jsut started under saddle. SHe is now four and really an awesome horse!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUjsc0LOceM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS5KPV9kux0&feature=related

Thanks for posting the video.

If he were mine, I'd have him to a hunter trainer yesterday.

shawneeAcres
Sep. 23, 2010, 04:16 PM
Thanks for posting the video.

If he were mine, I'd have him to a hunter trainer yesterday.

Thanks, he does jump well and we do hunters as well here, don't really need to send him out. But 1) I am TOO big to show him and honestly don't jump a lot anymore over fences as big as this horse needs due to prior back surgeries (he just doesn't JUMP til they are around 3') and 2) he is mine so somehow always gets to the back burner, as clients horses are more important. So possibly the girl riding him in the second video may show him a bit later this fall in hunters. I really don't care WHAT he does as long as he has a job! I just feel that he has a lot of potential in the dressage world, and it doesn't seem so "Weird" to have a bigger person riding in dressage as it does in the hunter world!

mickeydoodle
Sep. 23, 2010, 10:20 PM
He is very cute, but not at all a "dressage horse". His movement is flat, and is not "through the body" he moves his legs, but it does not involve his body, back, etc. I am sorry to be blunt, but he is absolutely not a horse I would breed for ANYTHING but training level dressage.

mickeydoodle
Sep. 23, 2010, 10:28 PM
In fact, I would not breed him at all for dressage, if he does not fit into anything else you want to breed, then GELD HIM- so he can be a better riding hors in whatever discipline you choose.

Also, in the jumping video, he is an average jumper/hunter.

I think he would make a nice, low level gelding for eventing, hunters/ dressage.

NOMIOMI1
Sep. 23, 2010, 11:10 PM
How silly :)

The OP has not said that this horse was for her next FEI ambitions lol :)

He steps under himself nicely and has an excellent mind. Many people could do a LOT worse for a color stallion prospect. He jumps solidly and quietly, and I think he's quite uphill for the loose connection, so he will fit up VERY nicely probably through third and then more IMO.

Whats wrong with wanting to have an Appy sport horse stallion in effort to give the breed something other than western horses in english saddles to choose from? Ive ridden a sport horse mare 16.2 appy who had trouble tracking up because of her more modern bloodlines, but was an excellent hunter and I would have LOVED to breed her to this stallion to improve the foals chances of being more dressage capable.

Hes got a wonderful way of going, and I think hes going to do a great job in the dressage ring.

shawneeAcres
Sep. 23, 2010, 11:18 PM
In fact, I would not breed him at all for dressage, if he does not fit into anything else you want to breed, then GELD HIM- so he can be a better riding hors in whatever discipline you choose.

Also, in the jumping video, he is an average jumper/hunter.

I think he would make a nice, low level gelding for eventing, hunters/ dressage.

I have NO PLANS to GELD this horse thank you! Whether or not he ever breeds another mare is immaterial as he has such a wonderful disposition that he does not NEED to be gelded. I feel this horse has plenty of potential as at least a second/third level dressage horse and he uses his knees over fences much better than the majority of horses I see posted on this board. Is he going to win at FEI levels or at the highest levels of dressage, well I don't think I claimed that ANYWHERE and also did not ask for opinions of his potential as a stallion. He has produced very nice offspring, and has not been bred now for the past three years due to other obligations. I ONLY will breed a total of 6 mares in the coming year and already have several people wanting to breed to him, but that is not my primary goal. I would like to see how many stallions that you know that are capable of dressage, hunters, eventing, jumpers AND driving all within a matter of five years. At any rate, that is not the point, you are entitled to your opinion, but my opinion, and the opinion of many otehrs is that he is exceptional for his breed in a variety of ways. I love this horse, and I nearly made the mistake of selling him two years ago. Luckily I changed my mind.

FLeckenAwesome
Sep. 24, 2010, 02:02 PM
I think he looks great and can only get better with more work and time :)

A great mind and heart can go a long way too!!!

:)

WBLover
Sep. 24, 2010, 02:56 PM
Not every stallion has to be specialized to the highest levels of one specific discipline. A lot of people want an "all-rounder", with the temperament and trainability to be the #1 important factor. And he's got color as a plus!

Balta C'zar (BWP, NAWPN) is one that comes to mind, as well as my horse's sire, Mannhattan (Oldenburg NA). They both have produced dressage, hunter and jumper offspring, all with very ammy friendly temperaments.

piaffequeen
Sep. 24, 2010, 07:49 PM
In fact, I would not breed him at all for dressage, if he does not fit into anything else you want to breed, then GELD HIM- so he can be a better riding hors in whatever discipline you choose.

Also, in the jumping video, he is an average jumper/hunter.

I think he would make a nice, low level gelding for eventing, hunters/ dressage.

Ignore mickeydoodle:(-have fun and enjoy him! I saw him at McNairs and loved him-I am a sucker for an App. :D

shawneeAcres
Sep. 24, 2010, 07:54 PM
Ignore mickeydoodle:(-have fun and enjoy him! I saw him at McNairs and loved him-I am a sucker for an App. :D

Thanks! The plan is to have him back at MacNairs with me riding in November, can't make the october show. Hopefully with some improvements!

2tempe
Sep. 24, 2010, 08:22 PM
Personally I like him, and I'm not traditionally an appy fan. If he were mine and I could swing the process, I'd do the dressage work 4 days a week AND have a good hunter rider also begin schooling him over fences 1-2 times/week.
With a solid dressage program, thinking a year from now, he could be quite cool, and as he has a brain, that's SOO much of the battle. As someone else posted, he would look good in the hunter ring adult ammy horse if he can do the 3' to 3.3.

How big is he? and how old?

EasyStreet
Sep. 24, 2010, 08:29 PM
IMO he is evading in video #1 by going BTV but is more forward! Still needs to be more forward.
In #2 there is no contact to recycle any forward energy even if the rider were to ask for more forward. But what I notice is that he is NOT seeking the contact at all, which is probably why he evades when there is contact.
I would work on connecting half halts at the walk. Give him the oportunity to chew the rein down into a free walk and as you return to working walk be sure to pick up the contact gradually while riding him forward into it! Hope this helps!
BTW your horse is lovely and I had an App stallion when I was 16 yrs old and showed him for years(back in the day when there weren't any rules about stallion/junior handlers) and I only bred him once to my friends Appy mare. So I see no reason to geld him if irregaurdless of what your plans are for him. Of corse you always want to be a concienious stallion owner!:yes:;)

summerhorse
Sep. 24, 2010, 08:49 PM
He is LOVELY! First video the rider is all in his mouth and her legs are all over the place. I don't think most event riders are known for their dressage anyway but if she shortened her stirrups a hole (or even half a hole), got her heels DOWN then she'd have a much deeper seat and a base of support so she wouldn't have to be so, um, active with her hands. Then he might start using himself more and fighting less.

Second rider also needs to get her heels down and the horse definitely seems happier with her up but as someone pointed out she isn't asking for much either. But he def. shows he has potential.

Certainly no need to geld a very lovely Sport Appy! There is little enough to choose from as there is!!! I can't tell if he's a few spot or not as he has a lot of sabino which is known to produce this kind of few spot looking pattern! But whatever, he's a grand looking App!

shawneeAcres
Sep. 24, 2010, 10:25 PM
He is LOVELY! First video the rider is all in his mouth and her legs are all over the place. I don't think most event riders are known for their dressage anyway but if she shortened her stirrups a hole (or even half a hole), got her heels DOWN then she'd have a much deeper seat and a base of support so she wouldn't have to be so, um, active with her hands. Then he might start using himself more and fighting less.

Second rider also needs to get her heels down and the horse definitely seems happier with her up but as someone pointed out she isn't asking for much either. But he def. shows he has potential.

Certainly no need to geld a very lovely Sport Appy! There is little enough to choose from as there is!!! I can't tell if he's a few spot or not as he has a lot of sabino which is known to produce this kind of few spot looking pattern! But whatever, he's a grand looking App!

TO answer your question he is a TRUE snowcap and is a 100% color producer on all breeds and color of mares. He has had enough foals (15 so far) that proves his ability to always throw color making him homozygous for lp gene.

staceyk
Sep. 25, 2010, 07:55 PM
First of all, I really, really like your boy, and I loved the forwardness of the first video -- unlike others I was not that put off by the rider in video #1 (apparently she annoyed your horse at times). Rider in video #2? I don't know, she isn't doing anything *to* him, but I'm not sure she's doing anything *for* him dressage-wise. If dressage is your goal, have you thought about finding trainer #3? Will you be trainer #3?

You may not have grand prix aspirations but I'd sure love to see him, and horses like him, out there competing. He's just a doll. Thanks for sharing, he was fun to watch.

shawneeAcres
Sep. 25, 2010, 08:14 PM
I am actually going to be his "rider" for the most part, as I said I have my assistant exercise horses and ride/help train some youngsters, she is VERY good with the basics on them. I plan to ride him tomorrow and hopefully hubby will video and hopefully I won't look too awful to post it! LOL I will not profess to be the best "Dressage" trainer in the world! I am a "jack of all trades" when it comes to riding and eventing was my back ground for years, until my back prevented me from continuing to compete in eventing. I do a bit of H/J but less and less jumping these days. So I would like to work on dressage a bit more seriously, but honestly I doubt I would ever get to the true upper elvels, it takes more time and commitment than I can probably give due to having to ride client horses, teach lessons and run a farm! Out of most apps I have seen, this guy has the movement I personally like. He also has the best brain you will find in a horse, stallion or otherwise. And those are the things that I think are important. I feel that forwardness at the expense of other things (such as rythum and balance) is not acceptable and I do not ride that way. But at any rate, I plan to continue doing some dressage, probably competing next year at first level with this guy some, and as finances will allow, do some clinics with him.