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Brandy76
Sep. 16, 2010, 12:01 PM
Ok, so has anyone ever heard of this? Generic ulcergard, available from :

https://www.petoptions.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.display/pn/ulcergard/product_id/9697

Is this the same?? it is a company in Canada. I called, they said it was the exact same thing, and it is a THIRD of the price.

Anyone heard of this? :eek:

Before I buy, I wanted to consult the wise minds of COTH...:)

sar2008
Sep. 16, 2010, 12:56 PM
Ulgergard as oppossed to Gastrogard?

Yes. They are the same thing, work the same and ulcergard is way cheaper :)

Brandy76
Sep. 16, 2010, 12:58 PM
Thanks! but this is for generic ulcergard, no scrip, but it is about $13.87 per tube.

Same dose. 2.28 gms of omeprazole.

have you seen this? It's from Canada- the omeprazole ships from a company in the UK?

JB
Sep. 16, 2010, 12:58 PM
No label information, just "omeprazole", makes me very, very leery. Omeprazole is VERY susceptible to the digestive juices, which is why just popping ome pills down the horse is not going to do anything - destroyed before it gets a chance to work.

It looks like the real Ulcergard box, but... :confused: To be calling it "generic"?

sar2008
Sep. 16, 2010, 01:07 PM
Thanks! but this is for generic ulcergard, no scrip, but it is about $13.87 per tube.

Same dose. 2.28 gms of omeprazole.

have you seen this? It's from Canada- the omeprazole ships from a company in the UK?

OK, the link took me to regular ulcergard paste. Is this what your talking about?

http://www.horseprerace.com/canadian-gastroguard-omeprazole-paste-p-83.html?gclid=CN3b7tmpjKQCFZlC5godoHt-7Q

Seems legit, with case study information at the bottom. I would try it. I mean if it doesn't work out, it's not like you have wasted $100/tube...

Brandy76
Sep. 16, 2010, 01:11 PM
JB- that was my first thought fromt he original link.

Sar2008 - that's a different website than the link I had, but at least that explains it.

I am leery, too, I really appreciate the input!

Did you look at the link that I went to - the pet options one? Or maybe I can order from the link you listed, Sar.

Mr.GMan
Sep. 16, 2010, 03:14 PM
No label information, just "omeprazole", makes me very, very leery. Omeprazole is VERY susceptible to the digestive juices, which is why just popping ome pills down the horse is not going to do anything - destroyed before it gets a chance to work.

It looks like the real Ulcergard box, but... :confused: To be calling it "generic"?

I think one reason Merial's product is so effective is the way it is delivered into the digestive system--like JB said, it is susceptible to the digestive juices, and Merial's product prevents it from breaking down before it gets to where it needs to go. I *think* that's what I remember being told when I had my horse scoped.

Brandy76
Sep. 16, 2010, 03:27 PM
Thanks! Tempting as it was, I broke and just bought the dang ulcergard.

It would have been such a happy thing to get the exact same thing for $13.87 per tube, though!!

Frizzle
Sep. 16, 2010, 03:34 PM
There's also one called E-Gard that a lady at my barn uses. I'm not sure where she buys it, but just wanted to put it out there. She said it's much cheaper and works well.

deltawave
Sep. 16, 2010, 03:40 PM
I think one reason Merial's product is so effective is the way it is delivered into the digestive system

So Merial has been insisting vigorously for years. And yet generic omeprazole is extremely effective and widely used in humans. Not the same species, yes, perfectly aware of that. But Merial has got people absolutely paralyzed with all this talk about how ONLY their product works. Based upon small studies conducted and sponsored by . . . guess who! :)

Wait until that patent expires--the price will PLUMMET, and Merial (or someone else) will (about 6-12 months before the fact, write it down) come out with something NEWER and BETTER.

AnotherRound
Sep. 16, 2010, 03:56 PM
There is a company which compounds the omeprazole for horses with a delayed or protective coating so it doesn't break down until after the stomach (which is what I think makes it work correctly) in a powder form (granuales enteric coated or something) which is drasitcally cheaper - something like $150.00 for4 28 days or something. As far as I am concerned, omeprazole with the correct coating is good. I haven't tried it (yet) but cannot see why it wouldn't work just fine, as long as its forumated correctly, as above.

Laurierace
Sep. 16, 2010, 04:02 PM
Wait until that patent expires--the price will PLUMMET, and Merial (or someone else) will (about 6-12 months before the fact, write it down) come out with something NEWER and BETTER.

I got paid $100 to take a survey on equine ulcer treatments. The questions lead me to believe that they do in fact have alternatives they are working on to try to hold on to their market share once the patent is over. Most questions were phrased "what would you pay for XXXX?"

Brandy76
Sep. 16, 2010, 04:36 PM
So the whole Canadian generic ulcergard thing- no good?

Canadian MEdicine shop, I think. If youtype in ulcergard, it gives you that, plus the alternative generic.

I went to:

pet options
canadian medicine shop


they both had the same thing.
It was 7 syringes of 2.28gms each for $93!!!

Larbear
Sep. 16, 2010, 05:47 PM
So Merial has been insisting vigorously for years. And yet generic omeprazole is extremely effective and widely used in humans. Not the same species, yes, perfectly aware of that. But Merial has got people absolutely paralyzed with all this talk about how ONLY their product works. Based upon small studies conducted and sponsored by . . . guess who! :)

Wait until that patent expires--the price will PLUMMET, and Merial (or someone else) will (about 6-12 months before the fact, write it down) come out with something NEWER and BETTER.

Well, omeprazole is omeprazole...their patent centres around the formulation I believe.

deltawave
Sep. 16, 2010, 05:54 PM
Correct. And their formulation is what's making them their billions. They aren't going to let it go away without a struggle. :)

xylia
Sep. 16, 2010, 09:19 PM
I get enteric-coated omeprazole from Omeprazole Direct and it works well for my horse. He gets the maintenance dose of 1 pk/day. If you buy it in the largest size, it works out to about $1.50/day for maintenance, $4.50/day to treat (3 pks). The enteric coating is what allows the omeprazole to pass through the stomach and be taken up through the intestine.

http://www.equine.omeprazoledirect.com/

betsyanne
Sep. 16, 2010, 11:45 PM
I use the generic version of Ulcerguard any time my mare puts a foot on the trailer or shows. It is cheap and works great!!!! People use generic meds all the time...they work just as well. Of course the big companies hate it...they lose $$$ The vets don't push it as they will lose kick backs and the drastic markup! The only problem is that it takes a while to ship because of customs in Canada...so order early.

SimonandGus
Sep. 17, 2010, 11:56 PM
I was interested in the Pre-race omeprazole too. After reading the fine print and coming to the understanding that it is NOT FDA approved, I passed and retreated to the regulated UlcerGuard

BigMick
Sep. 18, 2010, 04:09 PM
After reading the fine print and coming to the understanding that it is NOT FDA approved, I passed and retreated to the regulated UlcerGuard

So what if it's not FDA approved?

The US isn't the only country capable of developing, testing, and producing ulcer meds for horses. Horses in other countries get ulcers too and are treated by products produced in those countries that safely and effectively help them.

It's not illegal to buy these products and use them.

I buy omeprazole from http://www.equine.omeprazoledirect.com/

It works well for my horse and I pay a fraction of the cost.

deltawave
Sep. 18, 2010, 06:46 PM
What do you mean it's not FDA approved?

Auventera Two
Sep. 18, 2010, 07:05 PM
I like Oxy-Gen Ulcer-Stop. It is a little cheaper than Ulcergard, and it is made by a family in Michigan. They're barrel racers and they sell a lot of it to the barrel community. I joined a barrel forum to get ulcer info since I figured those horses are as prone as any. Sure enough, apparently ulcers is a huge concern with barrel horses, and many of them use the Ulcer-Stop. It was $180 for a tube that lasts forever.

Fantastic
Sep. 18, 2010, 07:57 PM
Thanks for that info about Oxy Gen Ulcer Stop, Aventura Two. How long have you been using this product? Has it cured active ulcers in your horse?

What is in this product? Do you have a label handy? Here is the website for anyone that is interested in it: http://www.ulcerstop.com/index.htm


Strange thing about this website and the product, it is missing product information and ingredients (or at least I was not able to find it). All that is mentioned is that it has omeprazol in it. Nowhere does it state exactly what is in the Oxy Gen Ulcer Stop, or how many treatments are recommended to "cure" active ulcers.

At $160 per tube (8 full doses, or 16 maintenance doses), I would like to know why I might want to purchase this product, like what is in it, etc.

deltawave
Sep. 18, 2010, 08:08 PM
Our exciting new product is designed to treat ulcers. This daily paste has Omneprazole, electrolytes and probiotics. Dose for 16 days to heal ulcers. Call for consultation on how to administer as a preventative.

OMNEPRAZOLE? Either they can't spell or they're fleecing some people. Never mind that it doesn't say how MUCH of this so-called ingredient is in there. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say they can't spell. What is keeping them from putting half a milligram of the proper drug in their product and selling it as "contains omeprazole"? NOTHING. Not to mention I'm pretty sure it's illegal to compound and sell drugs without a license, and I sure as heck would not buy a product from these people. They may be perfectly nice, and well-meaning, but what gives them the credentials to market and sell such a product? :eek:

LauraKY
Sep. 18, 2010, 08:15 PM
I'd be worried it could be counterfeit. Maybe buy a tube and check out the packaging very carefully.

Auventera Two
Sep. 18, 2010, 08:17 PM
I have used it for maintenance for about a year or so. Her ulcers were healed by 35 days of Gastrogard back in '08 but I switched to the Ulcer-Stop last Fall.

Yes, the tube has the ingredients on it, but my tube is out in the barn. From memory though, it has generic omeprazole, calcium, and magnesium. The tube is like a big bute tube, and I'd give 5 cc the night before a ride. If you call the number on that site, they are more than happy to tell you all about the product, give you the ingredients, and everything else you want to know.

Lots of people on the Barrel Horse World forum use it and love it. Many of them are friends with, and ride with the creator of the product.

Personally, I found that it worked just as good as Ulcergard/Gastrogard. And really, I think it worked better because it also has the antacid and not just the omeprazole. It also has their Oxy-Gen blend of herbs or some such thing, can't remember exactly.

I haven't used any in awhile now and my horse is doing great. Did 16 pretty fast miles today, and she was awesome. I don't think she spooked once. She was so happy and forward, ate and drank really well, and when her belly was hurting it was NOT pretty. But every ride I have on her seems to just get better and better.

Auventera Two
Sep. 18, 2010, 08:28 PM
OMNEPRAZOLE? Either they can't spell or they're fleecing some people. Never mind that it doesn't say how MUCH of this so-called ingredient is in there. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say they can't spell. What is keeping them from putting half a milligram of the proper drug in their product and selling it as "contains omeprazole"? NOTHING. Not to mention I'm pretty sure it's illegal to compound and sell drugs without a license, and I sure as heck would not buy a product from these people. They may be perfectly nice, and well-meaning, but what gives them the credentials to market and sell such a product? :eek:

Don't know, but when 20 different barrel racers tell me this is the product they use, and have used since it was created, I listened. Most everyone who responded to my posts, and sent me PMs, know these people personally, ride with them, and have seen the product developed from the beginning.

And I think most of us on the forum know my mare is quite the drama queen - and if the product was a counterfeit, I doubt I would have seen such good results with it. When her stomach hurts, she doesn't eat, and she spooks and bolts like a mother. She get agitated, and fidgety, and generally just becomes a major PITA. When I was giving her the Ulcer-Stop, I could see a huge difference in her the next day after a dose. And now it's been a few months since she's had any, and she's still doing great, and no problems. I think she's FINALLY fully over it, I hope.

deltawave
Sep. 18, 2010, 09:05 PM
So if 20 people tell you something is so, that's enough? Doesn't matter what they know about the subject?

You must have to change your mind a lot. :)

Auventera Two
Sep. 18, 2010, 10:33 PM
Yeah, that was enough. They knew what they were talking about. Clearly you do not. Nuff said.

deltawave
Sep. 19, 2010, 12:44 PM
Right. I have no background, experience, or knowledge whatsoever of medications. Nor do I have any experience with buying medications from strangers based on a website with an unsubstantiated claim and a few testimonials.

Wait, the second part of that IS true . . .

LauraKY
Sep. 19, 2010, 01:01 PM
I didn't suggest the Ulcer-Stop was counterfeit but that the Canadian version may be. I do wonder how they are getting away with compounding it; my vet used to be able to compound omeprazole, but no longer. If it's in UlcerGard packaging, you should be able to compare with one purchased in the US. It's probably fine and just big pharma marking up to the US again, like they do with anything they can get away with.

LauraKY
Sep. 21, 2010, 06:22 PM
I just read on another threat that UlcerGard is not licensed to be sold in Canada. It will be turned away at customs. So, either this is counterfeit or is really not coming from Canada. UlcerGard cannot be legally sold in Canada.

foggybok
Sep. 21, 2010, 07:11 PM
So Merial has been insisting vigorously for years. And yet generic omeprazole is extremely effective and widely used in humans. Not the same species, yes, perfectly aware of that. But Merial has got people absolutely paralyzed with all this talk about how ONLY their product works. Based upon small studies conducted and sponsored by . . . guess who! :)

Wait until that patent expires--the price will PLUMMET, and Merial (or someone else) will (about 6-12 months before the fact, write it down) come out with something NEWER and BETTER.

Maybe, maybe not... vet med works a little differently than human medicine... As you know omeprazole is already generic so any company could now make a competing paste and nobody has.... Why? Too expensive to do the development work for a partial share in the equine market.... A competing product would require full development and a huge up front investment...... To get an approved generic, they would have to do extensive formulation and bioequivalence ..... again for a share of a small market at a discount price... wouldn't make sense for a company to bother. So instead of an approved generic, there will probably be an ongoing market for the already available (though technically illegal) compounded variety...

Brand names tend to live on in vet med... carprofen (Rimadyl)is off patent but has a commanding lead in the NSAID market (sales approaching 200M, which is outstanding for a non-antiparasite or antibiotic veterinary product, no other product comes close). Metacam is also available as a generic, but both products retain >90% market share. Probably partly due to the fact that generics in vet med don't provide the drastic cost saving you see in humans, i.e generic Rimadyl is only 30% cheaper....

No equine product has ever hit the numbers that the small animal products do, there just isn't the market size.....far more small animals than horses....

P.S. to Deltawave. I am anxiously awaiting your 25,000 post! We should have a party! ;)

Auventera Two
Sep. 21, 2010, 07:39 PM
Right. I have no background, experience, or knowledge whatsoever of medications. Nor do I have any experience with buying medications from strangers based on a website with an unsubstantiated claim and a few testimonials.

Wait, the second part of that IS true . . .

You have no knowledge of this product, these people, what it is, the recommendations behind it, etc. You've never bought it, never used it. I spent a LOT of time researching it, I had phone calls back and forth with the people, I talked directly to other people who have used it, others who watched the product develop, people who know the creators of the product personally. I used the product for almost a year with EXCELLENT results.

We're not talking about some off-shore unregulated drug. It's just a mix of probiotics, calcium/magnesium, generic omeprazole, and some herbs. Every ingredient in their product comes from a reputable source. Many barrel racers recommend it and use it. This is family of barrel racers who put together a mix of ingredients that worked for the horses they race. And then they made that product available to other people.

These people (Michigan residents) didn't utilize some 3rd world company to make a knock-off drug. They took existing, readily available ingredients and put them together in a paste form. You know how grannies sell apple pies at the church bake sale - same kind of idea. I don't have the time, the knowledge, or the desire to make my own mix of omeprazole, herbs, probiotics, and antacids so I bought the pre-mixed product from them. When you call, you don't get a non-english speaking guy sitting in a tent in India. You get either the husband or the wife on the phone, in their Michigan home, who will tell you whatever you want to know about the product.

Funny that people have no problem buying compounded drugs off a boat coming from China but they freak out when a team of barrel racers put together a generic omeprazole/antacid paste for their competition horses.

So your little blabber fit really means nothing in my opinion. :rolleyes:

foggybok
Sep. 21, 2010, 08:00 PM
You have no knowledge of this product, these people, what it is, the recommendations behind it, etc. You've never bought it, never used it. I spent a LOT of time researching it, I had phone calls back and forth with the people, I talked directly to other people who have used it, others who watched the product develop, people who know the creators of the product personally. I used the product for almost a year with EXCELLENT results.

We're not talking about some off-shore unregulated drug. It's just a mix of probiotics, calcium/magnesium, generic omeprazole, and some herbs. Every ingredient in their product comes from a reputable source. Many barrel racers recommend it and use it. This is family of barrel racers who put together a mix of ingredients that worked for the horses they race. And then they made that product available to other people.

These people (Michigan residents) didn't utilize some 3rd world company to make a knock-off drug. They took existing, readily available ingredients and put them together in a paste form. You know how grannies sell apple pies at the church bake sale - same kind of idea. I don't have the time, the knowledge, or the desire to make my own mix of omeprazole, herbs, probiotics, and antacids so I bought the pre-mixed product from them. When you call, you don't get a non-english speaking guy sitting in a tent in India. You get either the husband or the wife on the phone, in their Michigan home, who will tell you whatever you want to know about the product.

Funny that people have no problem buying compounded drugs off a boat coming from China but they freak out when a team of barrel racers put together a generic omeprazole/antacid paste for their competition horses.

So your little blabber fit really means nothing in my opinion. :rolleyes:

Wow, selling drugs is like making apple pie, who knew it was so easy.....:eek:

Actually it pretty much is an off shore unregulated drug....

Do they have a pharmacy license? Can they legally compound and sell drugs? Even if they do, this would probably not be legal either....

What is their source of omeprazole?

deltawave
Sep. 21, 2010, 11:04 PM
They took existing, readily available ingredients and put them together in a paste form. I'm not sure how this doesn't qualify as compounding drugs, which may be as American as apple pie, but that doesn't mean it's legal unless the compounder is licensed. Have they got data demonstrating that the herbs with which they mix their omeprazole (which of course is guaranteed pure, yes?) don't interact with the active ingredient?

And what makes anyone think that some American drugs shipped off-shore are not just as shady? All those spam emails in my junk box for V-#iagra and vIcodIn% come from good old American dot-com addresses. :lol: Do we have the corner on the integrity market or something? Because there's plenty of red-white-and-blue crap out there for sale to the clueless in the form of counterfeit drugs and heaven knows what else. And no one ever makes mistakes in compounding? Too bad we can't ask those polo ponies down in Florida . . .

What a weird setting for xenophobia to rear its ugly head. :confused:

mp
Sep. 22, 2010, 01:35 PM
When I was giving her the Ulcer-Stop, I could see a huge difference in her the next day after a dose.

You mean the fenugreek seeds, which you also researched, didn't work?


Yeah, that was enough. They knew what they were talking about. Clearly you do not. Nuff said.


So your little blabber fit really means nothing in my opinion.

Oh, the irony.

PS -- Looking forward to your 25K here, too, dw.

MistyBlue
Sep. 22, 2010, 03:56 PM
Personally, I found that it worked just as good as Ulcergard/Gastrogard. And really, I think it worked better because it also has the antacid and not just the omeprazole. It also has their Oxy-Gen blend of herbs or some such thing, can't remember exactly.

July 5th:

My ulcer horse requires a maintenance dose of Ulcergard about 2x a week to prevent recurring symptoms. Her diet and turnout are exactly what is recommended for a horse with ulcers. It's just her. Arabs, Saddlebreds, TBs, etc. tend to be on the hotter/more nervous side. I'd put him back on Ulcergard and go from there.

It's now been about 2 years since any bad behavior but Ulcergard for maintenance is critical for her.

Oh yeah - I also use Oxygen Ulcer-Stop, which is very popular in the barrel racing world.

Maybe if the OP tries swapping the Ulcer-Stop and Ulcerguard back and forth then? Because it seems that the Ulcer-Stop only either hasn't worked or hasn't been tried?

deltawave
Sep. 22, 2010, 04:09 PM
I think there must be at least 3 or 4 different horses that all fall under the umbrella of "my horse" when A2 is talking. Hard to follow among all the threads--doing fine, doing poorly, no meds, constant meds, this works, that works, this DOESN'T work. All in the same month. :confused:

ake987
Sep. 22, 2010, 05:00 PM
I have a five year old OTTB that I have had since February and am fairly certain has ulcers. I'm a college student and support the horse myself, so $1,000 for 28 days of treatment with GastroGard seemed absolutely ridiculous and out of reach for me.

I came across the horseprerace.com website as well, and after carefully reading the field studies that were done with the CANADIAN brand, it appears to be the exact same thing as GastroGard. In both GastroGard and the Canadian Omeprazole, there are 2.28g of the active ingredient, omeprazole. Essentially, when compared to everything I could get my hands on about both drugs, they really seem to be the exact same thing.

If you have time and patience, why not take a look for yourself at the clinical trials and medical lingo that they have accessible on their website? :)

http://www.horseprerace.com/canadian-omeprazole-paste-p-83.html

I am probably the LAST person on this forum to be giving advice on this as I don't know all that much myself, but even stupid old me seemed to think they measure up the same, after reading the trials, dosage, and drug information.

Hope this helps anyone else with these questions! Personally, I am going to get my trainer and vet's opinions, and then make my own decision. I am inclined at the moment to go with the Canadian Omeprazole.

foggybok
Sep. 22, 2010, 05:41 PM
I have a five year old OTTB that I have had since February and am fairly certain has ulcers. I'm a college student and support the horse myself, so $1,000 for 28 days of treatment with GastroGard seemed absolutely ridiculous and out of reach for me.

I came across the horseprerace.com website as well, and after carefully reading the field studies that were done with the CANADIAN brand, it appears to be the exact same thing as GastroGard. In both GastroGard and the Canadian Omeprazole, there are 2.28g of the active ingredient, omeprazole. Essentially, when compared to everything I could get my hands on about both drugs, they really seem to be the exact same thing.

If you have time and patience, why not take a look for yourself at the clinical trials and medical lingo that they have accessible on their website? :)

http://www.horseprerace.com/canadian-omeprazole-paste-p-83.html

I am probably the LAST person on this forum to be giving advice on this as I don't know all that much myself, but even stupid old me seemed to think they measure up the same, after reading the trials, dosage, and drug information.

Hope this helps anyone else with these questions! Personally, I am going to get my trainer and vet's opinions, and then make my own decision. I am inclined at the moment to go with the Canadian Omeprazole.

Be careful using this. If you read their website, you will find the the data they present for "CANADIAN OMEPRAZOLE" is actually taken right off the drug sheet for Gastroguard....in other words the quoted studies do NOT apply to their specific product, rather they apply to the Merial version..... I highly doubt they would have the exact same results in studies with the exact same horses.......

Pretty sleazy practice.........

Phaxxton
Sep. 22, 2010, 05:47 PM
Maybe, maybe not... vet med works a little differently than human medicine... As you know omeprazole is already generic so any company could now make a competing paste and nobody has.... Why? Too expensive to do the development work for a partial share in the equine market.... A competing product would require full development and a huge up front investment...... To get an approved generic, they would have to do extensive formulation and bioequivalence ..... again for a share of a small market at a discount price... wouldn't make sense for a company to bother. So instead of an approved generic, there will probably be an ongoing market for the already available (though technically illegal) compounded variety...

Brand names tend to live on in vet med... carprofen (Rimadyl)is off patent but has a commanding lead in the NSAID market (sales approaching 200M, which is outstanding for a non-antiparasite or antibiotic veterinary product, no other product comes close). Metacam is also available as a generic, but both products retain >90% market share. Probably partly due to the fact that generics in vet med don't provide the drastic cost saving you see in humans, i.e generic Rimadyl is only 30% cheaper....

No equine product has ever hit the numbers that the small animal products do, there just isn't the market size.....far more small animals than horses....

P.S. to Deltawave. I am anxiously awaiting your 25,000 post! We should have a party! ;)
There are multiple patents relating to omeprazole. I wouldn't be surprised if UG and GG are still protected by patent, even though there are generic omeprazole drugs in the human market.

Brandy76
Sep. 22, 2010, 05:58 PM
I think it might be too good to be true, even though I REALLY HOPED I could get essentially ulcergard for $13 a tube...

So, I will do 2 weeks of full dose, two weeks of half, I did 28 days of full in March, so now he has been trailering around, done a couple of shows, schools, etc, and yes, he's gets ug every time he sets foot on the trailer.

Lives out, hay as much as he'll eat (alfalfa/grass), three meals not two, low sugar, etc, etc.

What I really need to do is win the powerball and just buy him a new digestive system. Can I order that from Smartpak?

( a little levity so I don't lose my mind over this):lol:



Be careful using this. If you read their website, you will find the the data they present for "CANADIAN OMEPRAZOLE" is actually taken right off the drug sheet for Gastroguard....in other words the quoted studies do NOT apply to their specific product, rather they apply to the Merial version..... I highly doubt they would have the exact same results in studies with the exact same horses.......

Pretty sleazy practice.........

ake987
Sep. 22, 2010, 06:01 PM
Be careful using this. If you read their website, you will find the the data they present for "CANADIAN OMEPRAZOLE" is actually taken right off the drug sheet for Gastroguard....in other words the quoted studies do NOT apply to their specific product, rather they apply to the Merial version..... I highly doubt they would have the exact same results in studies with the exact same horses.......

Pretty sleazy practice.........

Hmm, excellent point. I think, though, for the price.. it is worth calling to see if you can get more concrete details. I will have to look again to see if they are verbatim, aside from the name switch - that would be terrible! If that doesn't work I think I would look into the Omeprazole Direct that someone mentioned earlier.

LauraKY
Sep. 22, 2010, 06:13 PM
I just talked to Merial. They have the patent on equine omeprazole. They ONLY sell GastroGard in Canada. So, whatever this company is advertising is illegal and/or counterfeit.

foggybok
Sep. 22, 2010, 07:17 PM
Hmm, excellent point. I think, though, for the price.. it is worth calling to see if you can get more concrete details. I will have to look again to see if they are verbatim, aside from the name switch - that would be terrible! If that doesn't work I think I would look into the Omeprazole Direct that someone mentioned earlier.

Here is the FOI for Gastroguard. You can match study for study.....

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AnimalVeterinary/Products/ApprovedAnimalDrugProducts/FOIADrugSummaries/ucm117173.pdf

They also imply they are approved by the FDA, which as pointed out above is NOT true. Only Merial products are approved and if you think about it, it does not make sense as the FDA is not the agency that approves drugs in Canada.

Shady practices.....

ake987
Sep. 22, 2010, 11:25 PM
Here is the FOI for Gastroguard. You can match study for study.....

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AnimalVeterinary/Products/ApprovedAnimalDrugProducts/FOIADrugSummaries/ucm117173.pdf

They also imply they are approved by the FDA, which as pointed out above is NOT true. Only Merial products are approved and if you think about it, it does not make sense as the FDA is not the agency that approves drugs in Canada.

Shady practices.....

WOW! F*ing scummy! I am so glad you caught that before I even bothered to speak to my vet about it. Thank you!

Long Spot
Sep. 23, 2010, 09:31 AM
Did 16 pretty fast miles today, and she was awesome.

Please tell me this isn't the same horse about which one month ago you were writing this about when she was so chubby you thought she might be preggo?:eek:


In the mean time she's doing really well under saddle and I'm going to keep shaping her up slowly and steadily. I'll take advantage of the bond between her and Le'Sorna to do some light ponying with her on some of the easy trails.

JB
Sep. 23, 2010, 10:23 AM
Ok, seriously, WHY do you all insist on going after every little detail that AT posts? Why do you assume that everything she posts is all about the same horse? Leave your Witch Hunt hats at home, it's really tiresome. What she does with her horses is her business. How about saving your fury for any advice she gives which is just flat wrong or might be harmful :rolleyes:

goeslikestink
Sep. 23, 2010, 11:11 AM
Ok, seriously, WHY do you all insist on going after every little detail that AT posts? Why do you assume that everything she posts is all about the same horse? Leave your Witch Hunt hats at home, it's really tiresome. What she does with her horses is her business. How about saving your fury for any advice she gives which is just flat wrong or might be harmful :rolleyes:

maybe its cos she has a habit of riding unfit horses as most know she has more than one horse
and perhaps its becuase shes very contrary in her posting meaning says on thing does another or changes and swaps so very contricdictory which is why they pick up on it all the time and uses other things to find a cure rather than call a vet out as its to costly the onlky time sweets tubed was becuase it was a freebiie and they found out she ulcers she been on all and sundry since and not a proper medicial treatment plan so the mare has suffered since then, and then shes goes out on a hack for a 16miles fast ride

but thats nothing new done it before with another mare of hers

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179601

if she want people to change there prospective of her then one has to change the way they are doing things

most people feel for her horses and want to help her - that why they post

people moan about others not about AT when ones not considering ther e horses and AT is quick to reply to some and be just giving her opnion of this that and rasperry tea leaves etc and been just as nasty to some posters
for no reason and said the most awful things to posters that have had there horses pts for a reason

but to ride horsed when they are unfit --in the manner one does
thats a bit abusive towards that horse then isnt it
and this what people dont like

hitchinmygetalong
Sep. 23, 2010, 11:17 AM
I'm so confused :confused::confused::confused:


Mar. 20, 2010, 09:22 AM
Auventera Two
Schoolmaster

Join Date: Sep. 25, 2005
Posts: 11,742

Could she use Previcox instead of bute?

I've been buying Oxy-Gen Ulcer Stop and it's GREAT stuff. I initially treated with Gastrogard then felt comfortable switching to something more affordable once the ulcers had been "treated the right way." Well, seeing the great results of the Ulcer Stop, I'd feel comfortable using it to treat instead of Gastro or Ulcergard.


Jul. 5, 2010, 09:03 AM
Auventera Two
Schoolmaster

Join Date: Sep. 25, 2005
Posts: 11,742

My ulcer horse requires a maintenance dose of Ulcergard about 2x a week to prevent recurring symptoms. Her diet and turnout are exactly what is recommended for a horse with ulcers. It's just her. Arabs, Saddlebreds, TBs, etc. tend to be on the hotter/more nervous side. I'd put him back on Ulcergard and go from there.

My horse was like yours - could be perfect one day - then a nut case the next. My riding buddies watched my horse buck and rear frantically in the middle of a river, 4 feet deep in water, while I clung on for dear life. Spectators were lined up and people said it was one of the worse temper tantrums they'd ever witnessed. She was also so terribly behaved at an endurance ride that I wanted the ground to swallow us both. A lady asked if it was a breeding stallion. The horse was standing on her hind legs, and screaming her head off for no apparent reason. Never saw her behave like that before, or again after.

It's now been about 2 years since any bad behavior but Ulcergard for maintenance is critical for her.

Oh yeah - I also use Oxygen Ulcer-Stop, which is very popular in the barrel racing world. You can google it. It is made by a family in Michigan, and it's a paste very similar to Ulcergard but is cheaper. It contains omeprazole, calcium, magnesium, and some proprietary herbal blend. That works as good, or even better than Ulcergard.

Very contradictory statements. I would think anyone who feels so knowledgeable about advising strangers on the internet about the care and feeding of their horses might at least be clear about medications (or pseudo medications, as the case may be).

JB
Sep. 23, 2010, 11:32 AM
maybe its cos she has a habit of riding unfit horses as most know she has more than one horse

And riding HER horses has WHAT to do with THIS thread?

Seriously, those who have something against her dissect every single thing she posts, relevant or not to the thread at hand (or to anything at all).

Seriously, think of more constructive things to do.

mp
Sep. 23, 2010, 11:33 AM
Ok, seriously, WHY do you all insist on going after every little detail that AT posts? Why do you assume that everything she posts is all about the same horse? Leave your Witch Hunt hats at home, it's really tiresome. What she does with her horses is her business. How about saving your fury for any advice she gives which is just flat wrong or might be harmful :rolleyes:

Well, it's also tiresome when someone posts so much contradictory information.

I don't have a problem at all with people looking for alternative ways to help their horses feel better. And if someone posts here asking questions, I'll chime in with my experience, for whatever it's worth. But, I DON'T change my stories based on the phase of the moon (which is full right now). ;)

JB
Sep. 23, 2010, 11:52 AM
But again, the issue of which horse she's riding in what condition has WHAT to do with this thread?


At least pick on something relevant :rolleyes:

evans36
Sep. 23, 2010, 11:54 AM
I haven't read all these responses (at work taking a few minute break) but my last horse raced for 6 years and came off the track a mess - bad feet, ulcers, parasites, you name it. I started with a diet change to no grain, high fiber, and put him on a worming regimen. He greatly improved, but was still showing signs of discomfort, eventhough now he was in good weight and shiny.

My vet prescribed a locally-compounded omeprazole solution. It was about $13/tube. Same active ingredients as Gastro/Ulcerguard but without the proprietary buffer.

My guy was a different horse after 2 days of treatment.

I asked the vet about it, and why it still works. He said that there are studies out there that the level of omeprazole in there is actually a lot higher than needed to do the job, if it's buffered. So apparently, in my rudimentary understanding, because my horse had chronic ulcers but no current lifestyle factors impacting them (he was out on grass 24-7, lowest stress life you can imagine, never travelled, no grain), the generic omeprazole given at those levels allowed enough of a buffer even despite the acid down there to let what was already there heal, since he wasn't actively making more ulcers.

He said he has seen a lot of success with horses in that situation on the generic, but the ones that have ulcers and continue to have aggravating factors (mostly show and race horses she said) really do need the ulcer/gastroguard name brand. He realizes there are no studies but he said he's seen some success, and he promotes trying the generic first (as long as you know where it's compounded and trust the lab) so that if it works on your horse you can fix the problem for less $.

JB
Sep. 23, 2010, 12:03 PM
And that's probably why generic ranitidine can work as well - provides enough buffering assuming all the rest of the management is in place. Plus, lots cheaper, though more time-intensive.

MistyBlue
Sep. 23, 2010, 12:14 PM
But again, the issue of which horse she's riding in what condition has WHAT to do with this thread?


At least pick on something relevant

Relevancy may be that this may be a contributing or causing factor of ulcers.

Evans...good point in that certain protocols work well with chronic and/or mild ulcers and that a more aggressive approach is needed for active ulcers and/or high stress situations.

I do find the cost for GastroGuard absolutely ridiculous though. Hoping the patent runs out soon to give horseowners with ulcer horses some relief. Also hoping that horseowners don't fall for whatever their New Improved Better ulcer med will be...because it's pretty much a cycle that the new better will pop out a week before the patent runs out in hopes to have a new expensive under-patent med that makes the Gastroguard seem obsolete.

joiedevie99
Sep. 23, 2010, 12:17 PM
Chances are the newfangled ulcer med will come out about 6 months before the patent expires, at roughly the same price. Then everyone will switch to the newfangled product before the generic becomes available, allowing them to keep much of their market share (or so they hope).

mp
Sep. 23, 2010, 01:00 PM
But again, the issue of which horse she's riding in what condition has WHAT to do with this thread?


At least pick on something relevant :rolleyes:

It is relevant to the point that the stories change so much -- horse is out of a shape and will be brought back into condition slowly; three weeks later horse just did a fast 16. I don't know about you, but that makes no sense. Also, to the point that this is the drama queen horse that is prone to ulcers and is/is not on regular UG.


And that's probably why generic ranitidine can work as well - provides enough buffering assuming all the rest of the management is in place.

My experience with ranitidine: Our old broodmare had periodic colicky episodes that we suspected were ulcer-related, though I never had her scoped because she was quite old.

Based on my vet's advice, I gave her 3000 mg of ranitidine 2x/day mixed with vanilla yogurt for several months. After that, if I saw the signs she *might* be getting a belly ache again, I did it as a preventive for two weeks. We managed to avoid any of her colic/serious bellyaches this way for several years before she died. Previous to that, she'd usually have two/year.

And if you look up my posts on this matter, you will see that story has never changed.

TrueGrit
Sep. 23, 2010, 01:14 PM
I just talked to Merial. They have the patent on equine omeprazole. They ONLY sell GastroGard in Canada. So, whatever this company is advertising is illegal and/or counterfeit.

This is exactly correct. There is no such thing as "Canadian Ulcergard" - only GastroGard is available in Canada, by prescription from a vet.

As far as the generic omeprazole compounded meds go, their effectiveness is a real crapshoot, with none coming close to the efficacy of the Merial products. ( Note: as Phaxxton has so carefully explained, in a post at the top of page 4 - there is No Such Thing as "generic" Ulcergard/Gastrogard. The no-name omeprazole compounded products are NOT equivalent to the effectiveness and formulation of Merial GG and UG.)

And FWIW, here in the heart of Canadian horse country, my very experienced vet orders compounded generic omeprazole from Ireland, as he has found, from his years of experience with ulcer meds, that the Irish generic works better than any of the Canadian generics. But still NOT *nearly* as well as the Brand Name Merial product. In his practice, some - a very few - horses can manage on the Irish generic for daily maintenance AFTER they have had a full month, or more, of GastroGard. So the Irish generic is occasionally successful when used *in addition to* Merial's product, not *instead of*.

And buying some untested "backwoods homebrew", misleadingly mislabled, and misrepresented, is just plain dumb, IMHO. Maybe even dangerous, as without proper testing and controls, you have no way of knowing what's even in it. Heck, I even read the label when buying well-known horse treats!

So as a Canadian who has been treating her horse for ulcers, Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware. There is no cheaper-than-in-the-USA legitimate omeprazole ulcer product here - I order mine ( Merial ) from the States - it's waaaay cheaper than the Canadian price!

goeslikestink
Sep. 23, 2010, 02:22 PM
its it relevant if your neddies got gut ache then you dont ride it if ill until problem solved or treated and one wouldnt ride it if its unfit and known to be unfit as told us so many times in various contrdictory post of trying this that and the other etc then go on a ride - especially on a fast 16 mile ride

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCgQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.horseandhound.co.uk%2Fhorseca re%2F397%2F122932.html&rct=j&q=equine%20ulcers%20of%20the%20stomach&ei=sYmbTOrtNoWUjAekqc3NCQ&usg=AFQjCNGmLe6cgetotbWo-hNSJKjC76b2vQ&sig2=Lya0iTwP3fH8FI0b90EIKA&cad=rja


http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CC0QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clydevetgroup.co.uk%2Fequine% 2Fnewsletters%2Fapr07.htm&rct=j&q=equine%20ulcers%20of%20the%20stomach&ei=sYmbTOrtNoWUjAekqc3NCQ&usg=AFQjCNE-bRbl4bbhhsK7YyXqOLtiLCRMng&sig2=QlywEHl-II1EFgIMgP9uzg&cad=rja




quote from the horse and hound link

"Horses that are being subjected to an ever-increasing workload are the most susceptible to ulcers. National hunt horses are the most severely affected. They have a pretty stressful training regime.

"Stress created by training is one of the most likely causes of ulceration, and this can manifest itself in a horse breathing or panting more after exercise and going off its food."

Another consideration is that the high abdominal pressures that occur in the galloping horse may be sufficient to squeeze the acid stomach contents into the upper, acid-sensitive non-glandular portion of the stomach.

Intensive exercise may have a number of adverse effects on gastric physiology, such as reducing blood flow to the stomach, increasing the acid secretion or delaying emptying of the stomach contents into the small intestine.

Phaxxton
Sep. 23, 2010, 02:36 PM
We need to be careful with the wording here. There is NO generic version of Gastrogard or Ulcergard. NONE. There are other compounded omeprazole products, but they are NOT generic versions of GG or UG.

Generics, by definition, are bioequivalent to the brand. They are proven to be as safe and as effective as the branded drug. Other compounded omeprazole products are just that - other omeprazole products - and not generics of GG or UG.

I just want to clear that up for someone who sees this thread in the future, when generics of GG and UG are available, so they don't think that the generics are as effective as the branded drug.

deltawave
Sep. 23, 2010, 10:25 PM
In fact the active ingredient (omeprazole) in GG and UG *is* generic, but it is correct that these brand-name products are patented and therefore still behaving like "brand name" drugs in that regard. What is patented and protected by "brand name" status, however, is the carrier, not the drug.

katarine
Sep. 24, 2010, 04:16 PM
If I poured that much money down one's throat to treat one's ulcers, I would for darn sure bring one back into work slowly. There's nothing slow about going from hoggy fat and unworked to a fast 16 miles in less than 3-4 weeks time. I'm not made of money that way.

THAT is why her horse's story is so important. Because treating an ulcer and managing a horse with a known history of a tummy full of make you cry in sorrow, ulcers....does NOT need to come back into work fast. Heck NO horse needs that sort of stress. I don't care who owns the horse or posts the horse's story- The facts of the matter are unchanged.

AnotherRound
Sep. 25, 2010, 06:47 PM
And that's probably why generic ranitidine can work as well - provides enough buffering assuming all the rest of the management is in place. Plus, lots cheaper, though more time-intensive.

I don't know if anyone pointed this out, as having hit this uninformed post, I clicked it to respond to and make a point some folks don't get:

Ranitidine and omeprazole are different medications. They act differently and address different processes.

Proton Pump Inhibitors such as omeprazole reduce the production of acid by blocking the enzyme in the wall of the stomach that produces acid. The reduction of acid prevents ulcers and allows any ulcers that exist in the esophagus, stomach, and duodenum to heal. (This is a human reference, but it is how the meds work).

I am not sure how
Histamine H2 receptor antagonists (H2RAs) such as Ranitidine work, but I believe they work in the upper stomach as antacids. My understanding is that they neutralize the acid already produced. the proton pump inhibitors inhibit the production of the acid, in horses in the hindgut. That is why omeprazole, in order to work, must be enteric coated, to protect the medication from the stomach acid degredation so that it can get to the hindgut and there be activated to inhibit acid production.

If I am wrong, please correct me. HOWEVER!! Ranitidine and omeprazle cannot be compared, or used interchangeably. Omeprazole has been proved time and again to by much more highly effective in healing ulcers and preventing ulcers in conditions where they might form.

So my point is, don't be fooled into using ranititdine instead of omeprazole for the same effect.

deltawave
Sep. 25, 2010, 09:05 PM
If I am wrong, please correct me.

If you insist. :)

No, ranitidine is not something that "neutralizes" acid. Things like calcium carbonate (TUMS) do that. Ranitidine is a drug that blocks the production and secretion of acid by the cells in the stomach. PPIs work to prevent secretion of acid as well, farther down the line. There are all kinds of things that trigger acid secretion, and these two drugs simply block different steps along the pathway.

Before there was omeprazole, drugs like ranitidine and cimetidine were a GIGANTIC improvement in the treatment of ulcer disease in humans. HUGE. These drugs work very, very, very well. Cimetidine, the first one, can in fact be considered the first "designer drug" that was chemically/molecular-ly (is that a word?) engineered for a precise job: to block the histamine receptor on stomach parietal cells.

Why is omeprazole considered superior? Because it blocks the acid secretion down much more effectively and precisely and for a far longer period of time. It is stronger, and better, no question. BUT drugs like ranitidine are still quite effective, and a perfectly reasonable substitute. The problem is the dosing frequency required, which for horses I believe is three times daily. But PLENTY of ulcers have been healed with ranitidine. :)

No, they can't be considered interchangeable, but they are very much both on the list of effective anti-ulcer drugs. :yes: As to acid production in the hindgut and PPI's, well . . . I'm not a vet, but that doesn't sound right to me. :uhoh:

JB
Sep. 25, 2010, 11:13 PM
Thanks DW.

I in no way intended to imply that ranit and ome were the same things. My point was that the effect of ranitidine can be just the little push that a horse needs, all other management practices taken care of, to get existing ulcers healed and help prevent new ones. And, done much more cheaply, if taking longer, than omeprazole.

So yes, they can be compared as to their general effect, though one works faster with less effort.

Auventera Two
Sep. 26, 2010, 01:15 PM
Well if the resident know-it-alls have a problem with me, and mine, they know how to find me. Every one of you is welcome at my farm ANY TIME. ;-) And gee, guess what, I rode the horse 23 miles on Friday (2 loops - 1 hour break in between, rode it slow), 5 miles yesterday, and have another 5 planned today. She is doing AWESOME. I ride with a heart monitor and I am very careful with her. She's lost about 50 lbs. and she's getting back in shape, and is doing great. The weather is cool, she feels great, and she loves hitting the trail. If anybody has any problems with that - well whatever. Everybody needs something to cry and whine over I guess.