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harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 9, 2006, 06:07 AM
Jumphigh, I have to apologize, I spoke with friends over the weekend who told me that the farm I had thought to be abandoned was indeed a working stable. The rest of the conversation about the operators hinted that perhaps they should be included in this thread, so I don't feel as if I am hijacking. These are people local to that area, so they are probably not really aware of what goes on, they just felt they had seen excessive measures.

Jumphigh83
Jan. 9, 2006, 06:19 AM
HJ, If you only knew the HALF of it! The Branch Davidians have nothing on that place.
PS If I see a UFO I will assume it is the "mothership" coming in for a landing!

War Admiral
Jan. 9, 2006, 06:19 AM
Hmmm, interesting - Big Dawg and I have actually found something we agree on. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Big Dawg, just as an FYI - I own an ex "A" circuit horse that I rescued at a feedlot auction, absolutely crippled. When we pulled blood on him, he was indeed described as "a walking crack factory". So believe me, I know whereof you speak and I know you are right - there are plenty of horses out there who are, let's put it politely here, considerably overmedicated. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If you were to check my posts in this forum over the last several years, you would find that my position has ALWAYS been anti-drug ABUSE, and that as late as last year I was begging USEF to give us penalties with some serious teeth for those who fail to adhere to the therapeutic substance rules.

I believe that the therapeutic substance rules exist for reasons that are valid. While I personally would in fact prefer it if we adhered to the FEI position, that's my own personal preference, and I'm sure the majority who DO strictly adhere to the therapeutic substance rules would disagree. Realistically, I don't think it's a resolvable debate.

My question to you is, if you feel that strongly about people violating the therapeutic substances rules, then where were you last year when we did try to get USEF to enforce stronger penalties against those who violate said rules? Because to me, that's what DOES need to happen.

I'm a big believer in the rule book and a strong supporter of what USEF tries to do. At no point have I ever claimed that any of the horse killers do not have the right to apply for reinstatement. Of course they do. It's written right into the decision of the Hearing Committee.

However, the way that decision is worded, it also leaves the door open for USEF to make a decision at a later time as to whether any of these people will be reinstated or not. I think all we're trying to do here is persuade USEF that a large number of equestrians think reinstatement of any of the horse killers is a bad idea.

We have as much right to express this opinion as Mr. Valliere et al. do to take out persuasive ads in the trade magazines advertising *their* position.

What I do find rather heinous on the part of the pro-reinstatement advocates is reports I'm getting privately about employers putting pressure on their employees NOT to sign the petition.

Like I said, people, take a long hard look at your trainers.... And the horse-related companies you work for...

As I've stated before, I believe that anyone who kills horses for insurance money has automatically waived their right to call themselves an equine professional.

You have every right to disagree, and as long as the debate stays sensible, I hope you keep posting!

Hope that clarifies things a bit.

shoos
Jan. 9, 2006, 07:05 AM
I just found this thread this weekend and actually took the time to read it all. I have signed the petition and forwarded it to horsepeople that may not know about pending allowance for reapplication, for which I believe is not in the best interest of the USEF.
It was well written and though they may or may not sign it, I just wanted to let them know.
Knowledge is power.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

War Admiral
Jan. 9, 2006, 07:07 AM
Thank you Shoos!

BTW, did I ever answer the person who was having probs viewing the signatures? If not, I apologize. Two things occur to me: (1) try a different browser and (2) make sure cookies are enabled on your computer.

If neither of those works, let me know.

War Admiral
Jan. 9, 2006, 07:16 AM
OK folks, the topic of t-shirts & merch has come up again... in the Off Course thread (http://chronicleforums.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5566064631/m/306207948/r/657201258#657201258).

I'm thinking Cafe Press is probably the way to go, if we want to do this. Problem is, I am completely graphically illiterate - so is there anyone who would like to take this project on?

And Snowbird, would you be amenable to using your account for this purpose? If not, please don't HESITATE to say so.

I do have to warn y'all that in terms of using the proceeds of sales to do advertisements in trade publications, we have probably ALREADY MISSED THE DEADLINE if we wanted to get them in the monthly mags for March. Monthly commercial mags "go to bed" incredibly early. But I'm sure we could think of other good things to do with the proceeds. I've alwayss loved the idea of an RP Memorial trophy, for one... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 9, 2006, 07:26 AM
Jumphigh83, I believe the mothership was coming for the Heaven's Gate folks, not the Branch Davidians. It still perplexes me as to why the Heaven's Gate people all got new sneakers.

horse_poor
Jan. 9, 2006, 09:40 AM
FYI, the Cafe Press No Reinstatement store has officially opened:

http://www.cafepress.com/norein

Have at it.

happy mouth
Jan. 9, 2006, 09:53 AM
War Admiral, I have tried everything and can not sign the petition. I get error HYTTP or some such thing. I would also love a bracelet. Could I send you the info and ask you to sign for me?

horse_poor
Jan. 9, 2006, 10:29 AM
Happy Mouth-WA is offline the rest of the day but maybe I can help you-no clue about theb racelets yet, but can help with the petition!

happy mouth
Jan. 9, 2006, 10:45 AM
Shall I PM yyou the info or how would you like me to do it? Thanks

horse_poor
Jan. 9, 2006, 11:09 AM
PM me

happy mouth
Jan. 9, 2006, 11:43 AM
horse poor, thank you. You have a PM

Snowbird
Jan. 9, 2006, 12:10 PM
War Admiral I'd be glad to do it. BUT I am fighting my way off the farm to catch my plane tomorrow.

My laptop is giving me crap because I had the audacity to upgrade the Me to XP and its pissed off at me. I think I can connect from Cincinnati and catch up with all. I may have to do it the old fashioned way.

That's why you're all not hearing from me. Be back to the real world late Sunday night. Anyone who needs to can reach me at the hotel where the Convention is being run.

I see a laughing horse's face surrounded by a circle and in it it says No Reinstatment for horse killers but that's off the top of my head in a panic.

Limerick
Jan. 9, 2006, 12:24 PM
A BIG thank you to those that set up the Cafe Press stuff. I'm going to get some things for sure.


But I have to admit I'm still chuckling about the no reinstatement thongs....... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

horse_poor
Jan. 9, 2006, 12:27 PM
I HAD to put the things in--I laughed my ass off when I saw them....and, well, you never know who might want them! They really were quite an after thought....

War Admiral
Jan. 9, 2006, 12:50 PM
Hey - No Reinstatement = No Inverness Problem. C'est bien simple! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Nice work, Horse_Poor and Snowbird!!

Happy_mouth, if you're on AOL, try a different browser - just minimize the AOL one and fire up Internet Exploiter or better yet Firefox. That should get you in.

Hopeful Hunter
Jan. 9, 2006, 03:21 PM
And I'll step up and volunteer for media relations - see the OFF COURSE thread to help!

big dawg
Jan. 9, 2006, 03:24 PM
let's get t-shirts, ball caps, jackets and coffee mugs--just like Rush Limbaugh does.

Duffy
Jan. 9, 2006, 03:26 PM
Ho hum....

War Admiral
Jan. 9, 2006, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by big dawg:
let's get t-shirts, ball caps, jackets and coffee mugs--just like Rush Limbaugh does.

...And the difference between that and the supporters of the horse-killers taking out trade ads supporting *their* position is...???

Sebastian
Jan. 9, 2006, 06:24 PM
"big dawg" is a troll. Don't feed him/her. Do a search and you'll see he/she is only into spouting off and stirring up trouble.

We have bigger fish to fry. Carry on!

Seb http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 9, 2006, 06:38 PM
WA, you really deserve credit here - you have taken alot of shots and never stooped to the level of anyone against your position.

War Admiral
Jan. 9, 2006, 07:13 PM
Thanks, Harry, but I am serious as a heart attack: if it weren't for Big Dawg this thread would have been long gone by now! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

I raise my glass in a toast to the opposition. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 9, 2006, 08:12 PM
Yes, as I said before, Big Dawg has done a remarkable job of keeping the thread in front of everyone.

Showponymom Aefvue Mid Atlantic Division
Jan. 9, 2006, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by harryjohnson:
Yes, as I said before, Big Dawg has done a remarkable job of keeping the thread in front of everyone.

I second that.

FuzzyLogic
Jan. 9, 2006, 09:48 PM
What about saddle pads and polos? can we get those?

Ohoh, I've got another idea...we should hire one of those single engine planes pulling a banner and have it fly over WEF and drop hundreds of those buttons!! wOOt! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

big dawg
Jan. 9, 2006, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by War Admiral:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by big dawg:
let's get t-shirts, ball caps, jackets and coffee mugs--just like Rush Limbaugh does.

...And the difference between that and the supporters of the horse-killers taking out trade ads supporting *their* position is...??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

there isn't one--get it?

SCHUYLER
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:05 AM
I HAVE SAT QUIETLY BY FOR THE PAST SIX WEEKS READING THESE POSTINGS, AND FINALLY REACHED THE BOILING POINT. WHEN I SAW THAT INDIVIDUALS ACTUALLY DECIDED TO PRINT T-SHIRTS, BUMPER STICKERS AND SPREAD PETITIONS I COULD STAY SILENT NO LONGER. IT APPEARS THAT THESE SELF-RIGHTEOUS ACTS WREAK OF NEGATIVE ENERGY AND RESENTMENT THAT DOES NO ONE ANY GOOD. WHAT VALLIERE DID WAS WRONG. DO YOU THINK THERE IS ANY POSSIBILITY THAT HE IS UNAWARE OF THAT FACT? THIS IS WHAT THE PROCESS OF RE-INSTATEMENT IS ALL ABOUT !! IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THE NAYSAYERS' TIME AND MONEY WOULD BE FAR BETTER SPENT DOING GOOD FOR THOSE IN NEED RATHER THAN TRYING TO TAKE SOMEONE OUT WHO HAS CLEARLY LEARNED HIS LESSON. PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES AND PEOPLE FORGIVE MISTAKES. IT IS CALLED COMPASSION AND FORGIVENESS. IT FEELS FAR BETTER TAHN GETTING OFF ON SOMEONE ELSES MISFORTUNE.

EasterEgg
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:08 AM
SELF-RIGHTEOUS ACTS WREAK OF NEGATIVE ENERGY

Er... Would that be 'Reek' per chance?

Duffy
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:12 AM
You evidently haven't read the posts on these threads if that is what you think.

No one is "getting off" in trying to let the USEF know that some of us do not think he (and other horse killers) should be allowed back into our USEF.

No one is trying to "take someone out". Mr. Valliere evidently makes a very good living doing what he is currently doing.

What he (and the other horse killers) did was not a "mistake".

What do you know about what else we do for the good of the horses?

I sure don't see these actions as "negative energy and resentment".

Showponymom Aefvue Mid Atlantic Division
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by SCHUYLER:
I HAVE SAT QUIETLY BY FOR THE PAST SIX WEEKS READING THESE POSTINGS, AND FINALLY REACHED THE BOILING POINT. WHEN I SAW THAT INDIVIDUALS ACTUALLY DECIDED TO PRINT T-SHIRTS, BUMPER STICKERS AND SPREAD PETITIONS I COULD STAY SILENT NO LONGER. IT APPEARS THAT THESE SELF-RIGHTEOUS ACTS WREAK OF NEGATIVE ENERGY AND RESENTMENT THAT DOES NO ONE ANY GOOD. WHAT VALLIERE DID WAS WRONG. DO YOU THINK THERE IS ANY POSSIBILITY THAT HE IS UNAWARE OF THAT FACT? THIS IS WHAT THE PROCESS OF RE-INSTATEMENT IS ALL ABOUT !! IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THE NAYSAYERS' TIME AND MONEY WOULD BE FAR BETTER SPENT DOING GOOD FOR THOSE IN NEED RATHER THAN TRYING TO TAKE SOMEONE OUT WHO HAS CLEARLY LEARNED HIS LESSON. PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES AND PEOPLE FORGIVE MISTAKES. IT IS CALLED COMPASSION AND FORGIVENESS. IT FEELS FAR BETTER TAHN GETTING OFF ON SOMEONE ELSES MISFORTUNE.

There is no reason to shout (the capital letters). We all have our opinions that is what makes us a great country. As for making a mistake, a mistake is unintentional. What was done was premeditated, that is not a mistake! As for misfortune, he is making money while still coaching from the sidelines. He hires others to go to the ring while he tries to figure out how to coach at the show without being near the ring. I am sure others will be responding too.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:14 AM
Schuyler, perhaps you do not see that the monies raised from the T-Shirts are going to be used to fund the effort to ban re-instatement. They are not used as a mockery of the individual. The petitioners have the same right to protest the reinstatement as Mr. Valliere has to apply for it.

scout33
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:22 AM
I have been away for a bit and I am someone who as many know, had and have a personal relationship w/ PV. (tear me to bits here) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif This question is out of curiosity as I have tried to catch up by reading all the posts on this topic but at some point it strayed and then veered back on path so again I am sorry if it was answered and I missed it. I was curious if all the marketing and products that are being developed to ban reinstatement mention PV specifically or are targeted towards all those that were found guilty? I was curious and it also might temper Schuyler to know that it is targeted at all and not just one individual.

Duffy
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:24 AM
The logo says nothing about Mr. Valliere personally.

Showponymom Aefvue Mid Atlantic Division
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:26 AM
They are not directed to anyone personally. If you check out the thread in off course there is a link to the tshirts. You will see the logo is a general statement. I hope this clears things up for you.

backinthesaddle
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:32 AM
I don't think that you can characterize what Mr. Valliere did and the subsequent consequences as a "misfortune" (unless, of course you want to say that his getting caught was a "misfortune").

scout33
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:43 AM
Okay thanks, that helps.

Serah
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:45 AM
I have a question here.. please recognize that this is a QUESTION, I am not trying to get stoned to death here. When these men were indicted, they were tried, and found guilty and given a sentence to punish them. They have served that sentence. Evidently there is a huge following of people who are unhappy with the sentence, but it seems to me, the time for petitioning and campaigning this point was at the sentencing!! When someone serves a jail sentence and is released to society, we don't take them back to jail and put them back in because we dont personally believe they deserve to return to society! It would undermine the entire justice system! A sentence is basically a contract between society and a criminal that says that we feel they need to serve "X" amount of time for what they have done. People don't have to personally forgive them, but when a sentence is up, it's up. So where was this protest when the indicted were sentenced?? And if over 1600 people are willing to sign a petition, and we have people buying shirts and such, wouldn't it be more beneficial for the industry to focus the protest on the act itself and prevention of it, instead of people who have already been found guilty and been sentenced, and served their time???? Just looking for opinions here, not to be burned at the stake!!!

SCHUYLER
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:46 AM
Wow ! you guys are far to petty for me...misspellings, semantics, capital letters...its no wonder you are consumed with ruinging other peoples lives. I am taking the high ground on this one, but suggest that you take your blinders off and hypocrisy aside. ciao

SCHUYLER
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:47 AM
ps. i am no greenie. i've been around and loved horses longer than most of you have been alive.

Saddlebag
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:48 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Schyler, I'm with you. But not because of PV's (Who I know by reputation only) actions of the past, but because what I see here amounts to a veiled attempt to influence the Hearing Committee, and deny PV his due process. Courts of law try to prevent "mob influence" by giving high profile defendants such protection as change of venue and voire dire in jury selection. You can be sure that when this issue comes before a Hearing Panel, all sides of the issue will be weighed...with public opinion being one of them. But I find it unbelievably mean spirited for a group of (well meaning) horse lovers to try to skew the process by inciting a moblike reaction.

I am as mushy about horses as any of you, and have a pasture full of old retired friends who serve no purpose, eat the most expensive, high protein soft gruel that can be concocted for their toothless enjoyment, and enjoy a nice warm stall at night ( that could be occupied by a useful saleable horse) to prove it. I cannot imagine killing a horse because of convenience. But, I also hope that I never reach a point where I feel that a person, who has "served his time", displayed remorse, and who clearly has much to offer, should be denied a fair and impartial shot at the hearing process.

Saddlebag
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:49 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Schyler, I'm with you. But not because of PV's (Who I know by reputation only) actions of the past, but because what I see here amounts to a veiled attempt to influence the Hearing Committee, and deny PV his due process. Courts of law try to prevent "mob influence" by giving high profile defendants such protection as change of venue and voire dire in jury selection. You can be sure that when this issue comes before a Hearing Panel, all sides of the issue will be weighed...with public opinion being one of them. But I find it unbelievably mean spirited for a group of (well meaning) horse lovers to try to skew the process by inciting a moblike reaction.

I am as mushy about horses as any of you, and have a pasture full of old retired friends who serve no purpose, eat the most expensive, high protein soft gruel that can be concocted for their toothless enjoyment, and enjoy a nice warm stall at night ( that could be occupied by a useful saleable horse) to prove it. I cannot imagine killing a horse because of convenience. But, I also hope that I never reach a point where I feel that a person, who has "served his time", displayed remorse, and who clearly has much to offer, should be denied a fair and impartial shot at the hearing process.

I really am not privy to all the

Henry
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:49 AM
I agree with Schyler. The amount of energy and negativism in this is incredible.If everyone is so concerned about our beloved equine friends, maybe there should be some of this incredible energy put into protecting our horses from people they see at the showgrounds lunging horses for hours and hours at three in the AM so no one sees, the on-going drug abuse to stay one step ahead of the testers, the unbelieveable practice of withholding water from horses, and, of course the on-going poling of horses when no one's looking, etc.etc.

Saddlebag
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:49 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Schyler, I'm with you. But not because of PV's (Who I know by reputation only) actions of the past, but because what I see here amounts to a veiled attempt to influence the Hearing Committee, and deny PV his due process. Courts of law try to prevent "mob influence" by giving high profile defendants such protection as change of venue and voire dire in jury selection. You can be sure that when this issue comes before a Hearing Panel, all sides of the issue will be weighed...with public opinion being one of them. But I find it unbelievably mean spirited for a group of (well meaning) horse lovers to try to skew the process by inciting a moblike reaction.

I am as mushy about horses as any of you, and have a pasture full of old retired friends who serve no purpose, eat the most expensive, high protein soft gruel that can be concocted for their toothless enjoyment, and enjoy a nice warm stall at night ( that could be occupied by a useful saleable horse) to prove it. I cannot imagine killing a horse because of convenience. But, I also hope that I never reach a point where I feel that a person, who has "served his time", displayed remorse, and who clearly has much to offer, should be denied a fair and impartial shot at the hearing process.

I really am not privy to all the facts of this issue...and neither are all

Saddlebag
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:49 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Schyler, I'm with you. But not because of PV's (Who I know by reputation only) actions of the past, but because what I see here amounts to a veiled attempt to influence the Hearing Committee, and deny PV his due process. Courts of law try to prevent "mob influence" by giving high profile defendants such protection as change of venue and voire dire in jury selection. You can be sure that when this issue comes before a Hearing Panel, all sides of the issue will be weighed...with public opinion being one of them. But I find it unbelievably mean spirited for a group of (well meaning) horse lovers to try to skew the process by inciting a moblike reaction.

I am as mushy about horses as any of you, and have a pasture full of old retired friends who serve no purpose, eat the most expensive, high protein soft gruel that can be concocted for their toothless enjoyment, and enjoy a nice warm stall at night ( that could be occupied by a useful saleable horse) to prove it. I cannot imagine killing a horse because of convenience. But, I also hope that I never reach a point where I feel that a person, who has "served his time", displayed remorse, and who clearly has much to offer, should be denied a fair and impartial shot at the hearing process.

I really am not privy to all the facts of this issue...and neither are all the

Saddlebag
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:50 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Schyler, I'm with you. But not because of PV's (Who I know by reputation only) actions of the past, but because what I see here amounts to a veiled attempt to influence the Hearing Committee, and deny PV his due process. Courts of law try to prevent "mob influence" by giving high profile defendants such protection as change of venue and voire dire in jury selection. You can be sure that when this issue comes before a Hearing Panel, all sides of the issue will be weighed...with public opinion being one of them. But I find it unbelievably mean spirited for a group of (well meaning) horse lovers to try to skew the process by inciting a moblike reaction.

I am as mushy about horses as any of you, and have a pasture full of old retired friends who serve no purpose, eat the most expensive, high protein soft gruel that can be concocted for their toothless enjoyment, and enjoy a nice warm stall at night ( that could be occupied by a useful saleable horse) to prove it. I cannot imagine killing a horse because of convenience. But, I also hope that I never reach a point where I feel that a person, who has "served his time", displayed remorse, and who clearly has much to offer, should be denied a fair and impartial shot at the hearing process.

I really am not privy to all the facts of this issue...and neither are any of us who were

Showponymom Aefvue Mid Atlantic Division
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Serah:
I have a question here.. please recognize that this is a QUESTION, I am not trying to get stoned to death here. When these men were indicted, they were tried, and found guilty and given a sentence to punish them. They have served that sentence. Evidently there is a huge following of people who are unhappy with the sentence, but it seems to me, the time for petitioning and campaigning this point was at the sentencing!! When someone serves a jail sentence and is released to society, we don't take them back to jail and put them back in because we dont personally believe they deserve to return to society! It would undermine the entire justice system! A sentence is basically a contract between society and a criminal that says that we feel they need to serve "X" amount of time for what they have done. People don't have to personally forgive them, but when a sentence is up, it's up. So where was this protest when the indicted were sentenced?? And if over 1600 people are willing to sign a petition, and we have people buying shirts and such, wouldn't it be more beneficial for the industry to focus the protest on the act itself and prevention of it, instead of people who have already been found guilty and been sentenced, and served their time???? Just looking for opinions here, not to be burned at the stake!!!

The jest of this thread was not about the sentences, it is about the possible reinstatement of certain people to the USEF. Certain people have continue to undermine their suspension by certain acts. The opinion of the mass is not to have these people allowed back in the industry. Personally, I think the judicial sentence should have been a lifetime
out of the business. Plus certain people made deals with the prosecutors to save themselves. But that is JMO.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:54 AM
Sarah, when someone goes to prison, they often lose other rights and privileges when they get out of prison. For instance, someone incarcerated for over a year loses their right to vote. Someone convicted of drunk driving, even after serving time in prison loses their license. Professionals lose their right to practice when convicted of certain crimes. The signatures on the petition will not bar reinstatement, it is going to be decided on by the USEF. They at, at their option, have the ability to reinstate or take public sentiment into consideration. At the same time this petition is being circulated, I am sure Mr. Valliere is taking action to present himself to the USEF in a favorable way.

Saddlebag
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:54 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Schyler, I'm with you. But not because of PV's (Who I know by reputation only) actions of the past, but because what I see here amounts to a veiled attempt to influence the Hearing Committee, and deny PV his due process. Courts of law try to prevent "mob influence" by giving high profile defendants such protection as change of venue and voire dire in jury selection. You can be sure that when this issue comes before a Hearing Panel, all sides of the issue will be weighed...with public opinion being one of them. But I find it unbelievably mean spirited for a group of (well meaning) horse lovers to try to skew the process by inciting a moblike reaction.

I am as mushy about horses as any of you, and have a pasture full of old retired friends who serve no purpose, eat the most expensive, high protein sof

Saddlebag
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:54 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Schyler, I'm with you. But not because of PV's (Who I know by reputation only) actions of the past, but because what I see here amounts to a veiled attempt to influence the Hearing Committee, and deny PV his due process. Courts of law try to prevent "mob influence" by giving high profile defendants such

Saddlebag
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:55 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Schyler, I'm with you. But not because of PV's (Who I know by reputation only) actions of the past, but because what I see here amounts to a veiled attempt to influence the Hearing Committee, and deny PV his due process. Courts of law try to prevent "mob influence" by giving high profile defe

Fairview Horse Center
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:55 AM
Paul, oops I mean SCHUYLER - it was not a mistake. It was an intentional act done as a result of core personal values involving horses and money. A person that does not care about horses more than to ever consider something like this, is not someone that should EVER have a place in their lives. That person will NEVER learn from "their mistakes", because it is not a "learned" behavior, it is who they (you) are. Those values have no place in an organization dedicated to protecting the well being of the very animals that make it possible. This needs to be a CLEAR message to those in power in the organization. Nothing short of lifetime ban is acceptable.

If a doctor cheats patients causing death for personal financial gain, they would never be allowed to practice medicine again. Crooked cops are not allowed to be policemen - EVER again. They have assaulted the very substance of their profession. The same is true of the horse killers.

Serah
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:56 AM
plea bargaining is what makes our justice system work first of all. And I know one of the indicted personally and if it weren't for his testimony half of the people, who were convicted of crimes way more heinous than his, would never have been convicted!! Second of all, suspension from the USEF is a sentence in its own...

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 10, 2006, 09:56 AM
Saddlebag, I do not think the petition is a veiled attempt, it is out in the open. Mr. Valliere will be trying to influence the Hearing Committee as well, and out in the open.
The people who are against him have as much right to be heard as those who take out advertisements supporting PV.

Showponymom Aefvue Mid Atlantic Division
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:00 AM
Well said Harry. Has anyone heard back from the Ethel Walker School regarding the ad that was taken out? It would be interesting if they place an ad denouncing the first ad.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:02 AM
I do not think Ethel Walker will place an advertisement distancing themselves. The only thing that would move them is a drop of alumni funds.

scout33
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:14 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center:
Paul, oops I mean SCHUYLER "

What professional horse person is on their computer at 1:10 PM ET? Definately not Paul as he is in his barn working.

FYI- he does not use a computer, doesn't even have email...... before you go off the wall, yes AWF has a computer but Paul does not use it.

War Admiral
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:18 AM
Serah - To answer your questions, I refer you back to the terms of the various individuals' USEF suspensions, to be found here (http://www.ienn.com/break/mayjune97/indict.htm).

USEF assigned different suspension terms to each individual, and left the question of reinstatement OPEN, to be addressed on an individual basis as and when each individual becomes eligible to reapply. The next individual who will be eligible is Mr. Valliere, in March 2006.

While the USEF's approach to deciding on suspension terms was beyond a doubt the most fair to all concerned, one unfortunate side effect is that the reinstatement/no reinstatement argument is going to keep broiling for years, as each person in turn becomes eligible to reapply.

Rest assured that the merchandise does NOT mention any individual names, and is designed to be re-useable as each individual convicted of insurance fraud/horse killing becomes eligible to apply for reinstatement.

As Harry has stated, we are very much out in the open about what we're trying to do. It's no secret that the opposing side is attempting to do exactly the same thing, and has been doing so for some time.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

Fairview Horse Center
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:20 AM
What professional horse person is on their computer at 1:10 PM ET?

People who live on their barn property, taking a lunch/coffee break.

Saddlebag
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:24 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Schyler, I'm with you.

But, not just for forgiveness' sake. I am horrified by what amounts to a "mob" trying to influence the Hearing Committee and deny PV his Due Process when this case comes before them. In all trials, a defendant enjoys certain built in protections such as Change of Venue and Voire Dire from inteference by the public and the media. Yet here we have a bunch of people planning on using propaganda to try to destroy this man's professional life....to make it extremely uncomfortable for anyone to choose to be his client.

I am as mushy about horses as any of you, and I have a barn full of toothless old derelicts, long past any usefulness, chowing down the most expensive high protein gruel that I can concoct, and taking up space that could be filled by saleable horses, to prove it. I can't imagine killing a horse for convenience. But I still believe in civil rights, and due process, and what I see happening here is not only mean spirited, it is wrong.

I say, let PV have his hearing in April, and abide by the decision that the Hearing Committee reaches. I hope that I never lose sight of the ability to judge situations on facts alone, and to believe that a person can redeem themselves with a second chance.

I know PV by reputation only, and have no personal interest in this issue. But I find the direction this thread has taken, well intentioned as it may be, to be just plain scary. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

shade
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:24 AM
PV is only allowed to APPLY for reinstatement. His sentence was suspension from the USEF for 10 yrs after which he may apply for reinstatement if he so desires. I don't know why the PV supporters think he has served his sentence completely. You also can look at it as someone who is up for parole and the victums of the crime are allowed to attend the parole hearing and voice their opinions as to why they do not think this person should be paroled.

caffeinated
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Saddlebag:
:what I see here amounts to a veiled attempt to influence the Hearing Committee, and deny PV his due process.

Hardly.

Nobody's denying him his "due process" or trying to. That would mean denying him the hearing altogether and preventing him from trying to get reinstated. Nobody's doing that.

At least, as far as I've seen. Are they trying to get their voices heard so that the people who matter know how the public feels? Yes.

But that doesn't deny anyone their rights or prevent PV from being heard.

If people wanted to deny the man his rights, they'd be petitioning the USEF to not hold a hearing at all, which isn't the intent of all this as far as I can tell.

If protestors gather on the steps of a courthouse waving signs indicating their point of view, talking to the media, and being very vocal, they're not denying anybody their right to due process- they're making themselves heard. Which, I thought, is what's going on here.

scout33
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What professional horse person is on their computer at 1:10 PM ET?

People who live on their barn property, taking a lunch/coffee break. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point but PV is not one of those people... there is no lunch break in his vocabulary

Uberraschung
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:30 AM
lol Paul doesn't even knows how to turn on his computer, Fairview. Paranoid much?

Looks to me like a good percentage of names on that petition aren't even USEF members. As such, I don't see how the petition represents members of the USEF community...it just doesn't fit for me.

shade
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:32 AM
But, not just for forgiveness' sake. I am horrified by what amounts to a "mob" trying to influence the Hearing Committee and deny PV his Due Process when this case comes before them. In all trials, a defendant enjoys certain built in protections such as Change of Venue and Voire Dire from inteference by the public and the media. Yet here we have a bunch of people planning on using propaganda to try to destroy this man's professional life....to make it extremely uncomfortable for anyone to choose to be his client.

how is the petition denying PV his due process? this is not a TRIAL..more like a parole hearing..and what propaganda are we all using? The petition is simply a way of letting the USEF know that people do not want ANY of the horse killers back in. And as far as ruining his business..please don't make me laugh.

big dawg
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by harryjohnson:
Sarah, when someone goes to prison, they often lose other rights and privileges when they get out of prison. For instance, someone incarcerated for over a year loses their right to vote. Someone convicted of drunk driving, even after serving time in prison loses their license. Professionals lose their right to practice when convicted of certain crimes. The signatures on the petition will not bar reinstatement, it is going to be decided on by the USEF. They at, at their option, have the ability to reinstate or take public sentiment into consideration. At the same time this petition is being circulated, I am sure Mr. Valliere is taking action to present himself to the USEF in a favorable way.

All those things you say happens don't necessarily happen--all that stuff varies by state or federal law--depends on the jurisdiction of the crime as to what the law provides. The professionals losing their license thing is not a legal result, as it too depends on the Hearing Committee of the Agency/Association that oversees licensing and depends on the nature of the crime..the losing the vote depends state by state.

This is not a parole hearing...PV and all the other suspended individuals, just like any other sports athlete--remember the USEF now has to answer to the USOC and the IOC--have rights to reinstatement under the Rules. You all have a right to file a petition, if you are a USEF member, or to just send a letter if you are just an incensed animal lover, or whatever. Those petitioning reinstatement have the right to have all of their supporters, including USEF members as well as members of the public at large write letters and appear in support. [What I don't understand is why some of you on this thread are so vindictive towards anyone who is opposed to eternal damnation of these individuals.]

big dawg
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Saddlebag:
I know PV by reputation only, and have no personal interest in this issue. But I find the direction this thread has taken, well intentioned as it may be, to be just plain scary. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

I'm sure the jews in Nazi Germany felt your same level of trepidation.

Showponymom Aefvue Mid Atlantic Division
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by Uberraschung:
lol Paul doesn't even knows how to turn on his computer, Fairview. Paranoid much?

Looks to me like a good percentage of names on that petition aren't even USEF members. As such, I don't see how the petition represents members of the USEF community...it just doesn't fit for me.

I signed the petition but I am not a member of the USEF, my daughter is but she is only seven years old. I don't think it would be appropriate to sign her number to my name. But we are active with the USEF shows. There are some USEF shows that do not require member numbers to show in certain divisions. So I feel the names without numbers could be good. Maybe these people show at rated shows in non rated divisions.

War Admiral
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:54 AM
Wow, great post, BD. Thanks for it.

The only thing I might qualify is where you said they had the right to reinstatement. They have the right to APPLY - but reinstatement itself is exactly what USEF left open-ended.

I agree some ugly things have happened on some of these threads, in *each* direction, which I personally wasn't real happy with. But that's pretty much the COTH forum, in a nutshell!
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


All those things you say happens don't necessarily happen--all that stuff varies by state or federal law--depends on the jurisdiction of the crime as to what the law provides. The professionals losing their license thing is not a legal result, as it too depends on the Hearing Committee of the Agency/Association that oversees licensing and depends on the nature of the crime..the losing the vote depends state by state.

This is not a parole hearing...PV and all the other suspended individuals, just like any other sports athlete--remember the USEF now has to answer to the USOC and the IOC--have rights to reinstatement under the Rules. You all have a right to file a petition, if you are a USEF member, or to just send a letter if you are just an incensed animal lover, or whatever. Those petitioning reinstatement have the right to have all of their supporters, including USEF members as well as members of the public at large write letters and appear in support. [What I don't understand is why some of you on this thread are so vindictive towards anyone who is opposed to eternal damnation of these individuals.]

Saddlebag
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:55 AM
OOps guys...sorry for the double post...my computer has a mind of it;s own!

Shade...Read my post...I did not claim that the petition is trying to DENY PV his civil rights. I used the word, INFLUENCE.

And yes, you all do have the right to do this. No question. I just feel that the matter should be settled on a rational factual level, and not be influenced by emotional inteference. Frankly, I think that the only effect that this petition will have with the Hearing Panel is that they will note that there is much public sentiment against reinstatement. Then, they will address the facts, listen to what Mr. Valliere has to say, and base their decision on what is presented in the Hearing.

As to how I feel about reinstatement for all the petitioners. I believe that each case should be decided on it's merits, and I personally believe that PV has much to offer the Show Jumping community, and if the facts support this, should be reinstated. I DON'T feel that way about many of the others.

I also trust that those on the Hearing Committee are not stupid people who will be swayed by emotion, but will reach a conclusion based of facts alone. Hear Hear!

Showponymom Aefvue Mid Atlantic Division
Jan. 10, 2006, 10:59 AM
That is the great thing about our country. All sides can speak their minds, agree or disagree. It will be up to the hearing committee, with the petition at least they know people are paying attention to what is going on in the industry. If I was on the committee and no one said a thing either way I would wonder if people are paying attention.

shade
Jan. 10, 2006, 11:11 AM
But, not just for forgiveness' sake. I am horrified by what amounts to a "mob" trying to influence the Hearing Committee and deny PV his Due Process when this case comes before them. In all trials, a defendant
I did read your post..deny PV his due process..your words.

poltroon
Jan. 10, 2006, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by Serah:
I have a question here.. please recognize that this is a QUESTION, I am not trying to get stoned to death here. When these men were indicted, they were tried, and found guilty and given a sentence to punish them. They have served that sentence. Evidently there is a huge following of people who are unhappy with the sentence, but it seems to me, the time for petitioning and campaigning this point was at the sentencing!! When someone serves a jail sentence and is released to society, we don't take them back to jail and put them back in because we dont personally believe they deserve to return to society! It would undermine the entire justice system! A sentence is basically a contract between society and a criminal that says that we feel they need to serve "X" amount of time for what they have done. People don't have to personally forgive them, but when a sentence is up, it's up. So where was this protest when the indicted were sentenced?? And if over 1600 people are willing to sign a petition, and we have people buying shirts and such, wouldn't it be more beneficial for the industry to focus the protest on the act itself and prevention of it, instead of people who have already been found guilty and been sentenced, and served their time???? Just looking for opinions here, not to be burned at the stake!!!

Pete Rose was not allowed to return to baseball.

Sport is a luxury, not a necessity. The courts have one set of rules to follow and USEF has another. To the law, killing a horse isn't a crime - it's the fraudluent claim against the insurance company. In our community we see it a bit differently. Killing an animal to avoid professional embarrassment is not an ethical act. Lying about it to an insurance company not only is a crime, it directly affects all of us horse owners who wish to insure our animals, through higher costs and increased hassle. It is not unusual for a sporting organization to have higher standards for conduct than US law.

And I will restate my particular beef with this individual, that warming up people off the grounds for classes at shows and similarly thwarting the spirit if not the absolute letter of the suspension leaves me rather skeptical about any level of remorse.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 10, 2006, 11:47 AM
Again we see Godwin's Law come into effect, what with the reference to the Nazi's. While I stand corrected on the concept of Felony Disenfranchement, I disagree on the other points mentioned. Yes, there is the right to apply fo reinstatement, but no guarantee reinstatement will be provided, unless of course you are a BNT with a loyal following with deep pockets to protect you and influence the committee. As far as needing to be a member to sign the petition, I believe that is not a given, the USEF allows non members to participate in their sanctioned horse shows, and gladly takes their non-member and drug fees. The people signing the petition are not voting against reinstatement, they are simply showing an opinion. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on which side of the fence you are on, the Hearing Committee will do what they want to, allegedly without the influence of either side in the matter. What is healthy here is that for once, people are unwilling to simply be lead about and actually are voicing opinion.

horse_poor
Jan. 10, 2006, 12:11 PM
How can you tell from the petition who is a USEF member or not? I am but did not put my number down because I do not know it by heart. A friend signed it and her USEF membership was pending so she could not put a number down. I know people who joined USEF just as this whole thing was put together who signed it but did not have their “official” paperwork yet. Some have not joined yet, some have belonged in the past. So just because it does not say they area USEF member does not mean they are not.

This is how I look at it-when who ever in that infamous group decides to apply for reinstatement, theye have the right to plead their case. We as members of USEF, potential members of USEF, former members of USEF, and participants in the sport have the right to plead our case as well. Perhaps some people are holding off on joining USEF to see how this pans out.

I have said it before and will say it again—I will be highly pissed if any of them get reinstated and I paid money to be lumped into an organization along side them.

BTW Harry, good pint about the non members fees, et al! *applause!*

scout33
Jan. 10, 2006, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by horse_poor:

I have said it before and will say it again—I will be highly pissed if any of them get reinstated and I paid money to be lumped into an organization along side them.

!*

Well be pissed then b/c nancy banfield was reinstated.

horse_poor
Jan. 10, 2006, 12:22 PM
Scout, are you like Nancy Banfield's agent or something-her name is in just about all of your posts...and I am pissed...she flew under the radar....all the more reason to be prepared....

oh, and is she allowed to have her horses in a barn with electricity, especially when she is present? Oh wait, my bad, someone else did the dirty work for her-

scout33
Jan. 10, 2006, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by horse_poor:
Scout, are you like Nancy Banfield's agent or something-her name is in just about all of your posts...and I am pissed...she flew under the radar....all the more reason to be prepared....

Yes that's right I am Nancy Banfield's agent http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

scout33
Jan. 10, 2006, 12:39 PM
Also horse-popor I have checked through my post and including this one I have mention NB twice. Don't think that consitutes being her agent either.

ss3777
Jan. 10, 2006, 12:50 PM
Pete Rose was not allowed to return to baseball.

Sport is a luxury, not a necessity. The courts have one set of rules to follow and USEF has another. To the law, killing a horse isn't a crime - it's the fraudluent claim against the insurance company. In our community we see it a bit differently. Killing an animal to avoid professional embarrassment is not an ethical act. Lying about it to an insurance company not only is a crime, it directly affects all of us horse owners who wish to insure our animals, through higher costs and increased hassle. It is not unusual for a sporting organization to have higher standards for conduct than US law.

And I will restate my particular beef with this individual, that warming up people off the grounds for classes at shows and similarly thwarting the spirit if not the absolute letter of the suspension leaves me rather skeptical about any level of remorse.

Very well said Poltroon,

OK, here is a question for all of you folks that would like PV to be reinstated or perhaps would like no one to speak out against PV:

Do you not want to sign the petition/speak out against his actions because you feel that doing so would be disloyal to a friend/colleague? Or do you really believe in your heart that people who kill horses should be allowed full membership rights and privileges in the United States Equestrian Federation ("USEF")?

I am not trying to judge but rather understand. There may be two sides to the other side of the fence. I disagree (obviously from my previous posts) with anyone that believes horse killers should be allowed full membership rights and privileges in the USEF but I believe in the power of discussion.
”If you don’t do your own thinking someone else will do it for you”….Edward de Bono

horse_poor
Jan. 10, 2006, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by blubays:
What did Nancy Banfield do? Inquiring minds want to know.

She arranged for the death of Rub the Lamp

SCHUYLER
Jan. 10, 2006, 01:35 PM
I'm sure the jews in Nazi Germany felt your same level of trepidation

Witch hunts went out in the 1600s. I suggest you and your petitioners seek an audience with the Dali Lama.

blubays
Jan. 10, 2006, 02:22 PM
Interesting how many newbies are turning out just for this thread.

Midge
Jan. 10, 2006, 02:24 PM
Be aware if that horse wasn't killed, there would have been no insurance fraud case against any of those involved.

SGray
Jan. 10, 2006, 02:24 PM
Quick question - list of horses killed: Belgium Waffle, Emili's Choice, Rainman, Roseau Platiere, Streetwise, Empire, Pet of the Year and Cloud Castle, Charisma and Rub the Lamp - that's 10 - have I missed any?

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 10, 2006, 03:15 PM
There were others but not with documented proof.

TWF
Jan. 10, 2006, 05:02 PM
Pete Rose & Tanya Harding were banned from their sports for LIFE!

Barney Ward...NY Supreme Court Justice Braun’s decision permanently bars Ward from attending AHSA-recognized competitions as a participant or spectator. He noted that Ward had pleaded guilty in March 1996 to the insurance-fraud charges, admitting he arranged for Tommy Burns to electrocute George Lindemann’s hunter Charisma and three other horses before he threatened to kill Burns if he told anyone. Justice Braun called these "most reprehensible actions."

Justice Braun wrote that the AHSA "has the right to keep unsavory people away from the horse shows that it oversees, even if only to prevent the appearance of impropriety."

He added that the AHSA "issued an appropriate penalty that, contrary to [Ward’s] contention, was not disproportionate to penalties issued against others" and that the AHSA is "certainly justified in avoiding actual or potential harm to its events, members and reputation, not to mention the horses, by having [Ward] barred from those events."

Ward "should have considered the consequences of his actions before he put himself in the position in which he is now."


Fraud and killing helpless horses ranks far beyond Pete and Tanya's actions.

ss3777
Jan. 11, 2006, 04:09 AM
OK, here is a question for all of you folks that would like PV to be reinstated or perhaps would like no one to speak out against PV:

Do you not want to sign the petition/speak out against his actions because you feel that doing so would be disloyal to a friend/colleague? Or do you really believe in your heart that people who kill horses should be allowed full membership rights and privileges in the United States Equestrian Federation ("USEF")?


Where did the "pro" PV folks go??? No answer from them or Ethel Walker.....Oh well.

Limerick
Jan. 11, 2006, 04:23 AM
To add to TWF's post about lifetime bans in other sports-Ben Johnson, the Canadian sprinter, was banned for life for testing twice for illegal substances (steroids).

I think this reinstatement petition needs to let the USEF know that a ten year ban is not sufficient for such horrific crimes.

I'm sure that if you're around horses as a business for many years, you see a lot of awful stuff go on-drugging and poling and too much longing. I still can't imagine ever becoming complacent regarding someone electrocuting or smashing the legs of a wonderful athlete that just needed to have a different job. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Belgium Waffle, Emili's Choice, Rainman, Roseau Platiere, Streetwise, Empire, Pet of the Year and Cloud Castle, Charisma and Rub the Lamp-may their horrible deaths not be in vain.....

ss3777
Jan. 11, 2006, 10:07 AM
Did we scare away the pro-PV folks?

Showponymom Aefvue Mid Atlantic Division
Jan. 11, 2006, 10:10 AM
Must of, they ran out of defenses.

anthem35
Jan. 11, 2006, 10:11 AM
Nope-
Still here.
Just have 'other' things to do once in awhile than sit at my keyboard.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 11, 2006, 10:23 AM
They are always around, Showponymom.

big dawg
Jan. 11, 2006, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Limerick:
To add to TWF's post about lifetime bans in other sports-Ben Johnson, the Canadian sprinter, was banned for life for testing twice for illegal substances (steroids).

I think this reinstatement petition needs to let the USEF know that a ten year ban is not sufficient for such horrific crimes.

I'm sure that if you're around horses as a business for many years, you see a lot of awful stuff go on-drugging and poling and too much longing. I still can't imagine ever becoming complacent regarding someone electrocuting or smashing the legs of a wonderful athlete that just needed to have a different job. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Belgium Waffle, Emili's Choice, Rainman, Roseau Platiere, Streetwise, Empire, Pet of the Year and Cloud Castle, Charisma and Rub the Lamp-may their horrible deaths not be in vain.....

And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport--once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition.

lmlacross
Jan. 11, 2006, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by big dawg:
And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport--once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition.

Doing Coke = Horse Killing?

I must be working off a different spectrum of harm and malice. In my view, harming oneself through an ADDICTION to drugs ranks a little lower than harming innocent animals for personal profit on the scale of perceived "bad-ness". I fail to see the similarity between the cases. What's the relevance of Lamaze?

I don't think the previously mentioned lifetime bans by other federations of sport (some for taking performance enhancing drugs, some recreational) have much to do with the subject at hand. What these examples can show, however, is other federations' willingness and ability to stick to their guns in the articulation and enforcement of rule and consequence, regardless of whether or not the decision to enforce is popular among the masses.

The fact that a Canadian rider has continued to ride for his federation (I assume) after multiple recreational drug infractions tells us nothing other than our neighboring Equestrian Federation has determined that the penalty for this rider's behavior should be something less than a lifetime ban (let the penalty fit the crime, so to speak).

Whether this is an example of Canada establishing a lesser consequence (for a lesser infraction) and sticking to it (as I'm inclined to believe) OR tacitly permitting drug abuse, I'm not remotely knowledgable enough to say. However, in matters concerning the welfare of horses, OUR federation (the horses' federation) needs to articulate clearly-- and uphold-- the penalty for those who are convicted of killing horses for profit. Other federations have doled out the same penalty for less heinous infractions-- certainly, the USEF should be able to do the same when the matter at issue is the life and welfare of the horses with which we compete.

LML

Disco
Jan. 11, 2006, 11:28 AM
The thought that anyone could even think about letting these murderers be reinstated makes me sick. Trainers have to try to do the right thing, we have enough of a bad name already. It is time that we try to make this business a good one. Too many trainers are not honest, and yet the horse show world is very competitive and it is not easy making it as an honest trainer, I am in favor of doing anything to try to slowly make the horse business a reputable one. I will absolutely sign the petition.

scout33
Jan. 11, 2006, 11:31 AM
I have been working here on the left coast and don't have a moment to always immediately respond. That being said, as a person who knows PV and thinks that he in fact is remorseful and regrets his past actions I will speak out. (and no doubt get flamed and repeatedly have my morality, etc questioned by all who disagree with me). I think that those who do not want PV reinstated are within their rights to sign a petition, make t-shirts etc, just as I am within my rights to not sign the same petition. Like any crime, they are judged case by case and so will the reinsatement of PV. When and/if he applies the committee will focus on him and his case alone not all that were involved.

Fairview Horse Center
Jan. 11, 2006, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by big dawg:
And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine

That would only be similar if Eric Lamaze was a Drug Enforcement agent.

Duffy
Jan. 11, 2006, 11:39 AM
Well said, lmlacross.

And, I respect your sincerity, scout33. Mr. Valliere is lucky to count you as a friend.

N&B&T
Jan. 11, 2006, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Limerick:
To add to TWF's post about lifetime bans in other sports-Ben Johnson, the Canadian sprinter, was banned for life for testing twice for illegal substances (steroids).

I think this reinstatement petition needs to let the USEF know that a ten year ban is not sufficient

And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport--once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

_____

So, big dawg, do you think EL *should* or *should not* be banned by the Canadian Federation. He was barred from participating in the Olympics.
DISCLAIMER: POSTED WITH NO JUDGEMENT OF OR PERSONAL ANIMOSITY TOWARD ERIC LAMAZE, SIMPLY ASKING B.D.HIS OPINION.

Limerick
Jan. 11, 2006, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Limerick:
To add to TWF's post about lifetime bans in other sports-Ben Johnson, the Canadian sprinter, was banned for life for testing twice for illegal substances (steroids).

I think this reinstatement petition needs to let the USEF know that a ten year ban is not sufficient for such horrific crimes.

I'm sure that if you're around horses as a business for many years, you see a lot of awful stuff go on-drugging and poling and too much longing. I still can't imagine ever becoming complacent regarding someone electrocuting or smashing the legs of a wonderful athlete that just needed to have a different job. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Belgium Waffle, Emili's Choice, Rainman, Roseau Platiere, Streetwise, Empire, Pet of the Year and Cloud Castle, Charisma and Rub the Lamp-may their horrible deaths not be in vain.....

And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport--once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, sure bring Eric's problems into this http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifBig Dawg, you aren't just someone who happened to wander on here to research a project-you're a bonafide "in the know" horse person aren't ya?! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Eric wasn't caught with cocaine three times. I do believe it was cocaine once and then a banned over the counter med the next time. (Canadians correct me if I've got the wrong sequence of events) He did not get to represent Canada at the last Olympics even though he had, in many people's opinion, the better horse than Ian Millar did. It was down to the discretion of the Canadian committee and they chose squeaky clean Captain Canada. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif But doing coke is nowhere near as horrific as sentencing a horse to an awful death because it's not performing up to your standards.

FuzzyLogic
Jan. 11, 2006, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by harryjohnson:

The petitioners have the same right to protest the reinstatement as Mr. Valliere has to apply for it.

Perhaps, but only IF those petitioning are actually members of the very organization they're petitioning against. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 11, 2006, 12:48 PM
Actually, I do disagree, the organization can choose what they want to do with the opinion of the petitioners, it is not a vote, per se.

FuzzyLogic
Jan. 11, 2006, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center:
Paul, oops I mean SCHUYLER -

Talk about head-bobbing lame. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

FuzzyLogic
Jan. 11, 2006, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by horse_poor:

So just because it does not say they area USEF member does not mean they are not.[QUOTE]

So the USEF committee have to be psychics? or just assume everyone who signed is a member? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[QUOTE]I have said it before and will say it again—I will be highly pissed if any of them get reinstated and I paid money to be lumped into an organization along side them.

Should I be pissed that I paid money to be lumped into the same organization as you and a few others? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif Geez, why don't you guys start another petition and ask the USEF to split memberships into two catagories and keep all the crazies in one? I'll sign that one! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

big dawg
Jan. 11, 2006, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Limerick:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Limerick:
To add to TWF's post about lifetime bans in other sports-Ben Johnson, the Canadian sprinter, was banned for life for testing twice for illegal substances (steroids).

I think this reinstatement petition needs to let the USEF know that a ten year ban is not sufficient for such horrific crimes.

I'm sure that if you're around horses as a business for many years, you see a lot of awful stuff go on-drugging and poling and too much longing. I still can't imagine ever becoming complacent regarding someone electrocuting or smashing the legs of a wonderful athlete that just needed to have a different job. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Belgium Waffle, Emili's Choice, Rainman, Roseau Platiere, Streetwise, Empire, Pet of the Year and Cloud Castle, Charisma and Rub the Lamp-may their horrible deaths not be in vain.....

And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport--once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, sure bring Eric's problems into this http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifBig Dawg, you aren't just someone who happened to wander on here to research a project-you're a bonafide "in the know" horse person aren't ya?! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Eric wasn't caught with cocaine three times. I do believe it was cocaine once and then a banned over the counter med the next time. (Canadians correct me if I've got the wrong sequence of events) He did not get to represent Canada at the last Olympics even though he had, in many people's opinion, the better horse than Ian Millar did. It was down to the discretion of the Canadian committee and they chose squeaky clean Captain Canada. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif But doing coke is nowhere near as horrific as sentencing a horse to an awful death because it's not performing up to your standards. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I am a "horse person". My point was rules violations are rules violations, and hearing committees are there for the riders as well as the protection of the sport [however that is being interpreted at the time].
And Captain Canada is not "squeaky clean". He is a great rider, a gentleman, and a good represantative for Canada, but has had an issue or two whick is known. Eric is also a great rider, has had drug problems, which is known, and has attempted to come back several times from his problems. I guess you see certain acts as totally unforgivable and not worthy of redemption, while you give a pass on others. But, I see all as equal and the Sport Rules as determinative of who gets to play, as long as they are applied equally and fairly...that is now going to happen because the USEF has to answer to the USOC and the IOC--no more 'good old boys club' [AHSA].

FuzzyLogic
Jan. 11, 2006, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by harryjohnson:
Actually, I do disagree, the organization can choose what they want to do with the opinion of the petitioners, it is not a vote, per se.

I agree with you to the extend that an organization can certain choose to go that way. However, I just don't think USEF is one....I guess we will find out. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

big dawg
Jan. 11, 2006, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by N&B&T:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Limerick:
To add to TWF's post about lifetime bans in other sports-Ben Johnson, the Canadian sprinter, was banned for life for testing twice for illegal substances (steroids).

I think this reinstatement petition needs to let the USEF know that a ten year ban is not sufficient

And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport--once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

_____

So, big dawg, do you think EL *should* or *should not* be banned by the Canadian Federation. He was barred from participating in the Olympics.
DISCLAIMER: POSTED WITH NO JUDGEMENT OF OR PERSONAL ANIMOSITY TOWARD ERIC LAMAZE, SIMPLY ASKING B.D.HIS OPINION. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No personal opinion...[Someone was throwing out names of folks who had been permanently banned from their sports for drug infractions, and I mentioned Eric because he had NOT been thrown out permanently--just getting the WHOLE message out.]

SGray
Jan. 11, 2006, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by FuzzyLogic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by harryjohnson:

The petitioners have the same right to protest the reinstatement as Mr. Valliere has to apply for it.

Perhaps, but only IF those petitioning are actually members of the very organization they're petitioning against. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I repeat for FuzzyL - the petition is addressed as follows:

To: The United States Equestrian Federation ("USEF"), the United States Olympic Committee ("USOC"), and the Fédération Equestre Internationale ("FEI"):

which means that the appropriate signatory category is pretty broad

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 11, 2006, 01:15 PM
Fuzzy, I am very much against Paul Valliere being welcomed back into the sport. With that said, I believe he WILL be reinstated, because the USEF is an "old boys club". While I wish the petition would have an influence on the Hearing Committe, I do not believe it will.

I also find it very interesting that the Valliere supporters who preach forgiveness and compassion, in a moment's notice turn contentious and petty. It seems to me that as long as their interests are being served, they are happy, but it does not suprise me because their ideas are molded and influenced by someone with that same line of thought. I can see how this discussion has degraded to what it is at times, opinion runs deep on both sides. In the end, a lot of people will be unhappy either way.

scout33
Jan. 11, 2006, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by harryjohnson:


I also find it very interesting that the Valliere supporters who preach forgiveness and compassion, in a moment's notice turn contentious and petty. It seems to me that as long as their interests are being served, they are happy, but it does not suprise me because their ideas are molded and influenced by someone with that same line of thought. I can see how this discussion has degraded to what it is at times, opinion runs deep on both sides. In the end, a lot of people will be unhappy either way.

Harry I take issue with this b/c although I may be PV supporter I don't think I have ever been contentious and petty to any of the non-supporters. Maybe I reacted to a verbal attack on me by others in the posts who flamed me for disagreeing with them but I feel I have been respectful of others opinions and have tried very hard not to be mean spirited towards those who frankly, have not been so corteous to me or others who do not share their viewpoint.

shade
Jan. 11, 2006, 01:36 PM
I'm sorry BD but you cannot equate what PV and the others did to EL's issues. No where near close. I could forgive EL for his problems, those are personal problems. He didn't have a horse killed. Sorry not the same

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 11, 2006, 01:40 PM
Scout, I do apologize, but I have seen instances where this has happened, indeed on both sides of the fence.

Uberraschung
Jan. 11, 2006, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by FuzzyLogic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horse_poor:

So just because it does not say they area USEF member does not mean they are not.[QUOTE]

So the USEF committee have to be psychics? or just assume everyone who signed is a member? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[QUOTE]I have said it before and will say it again—I will be highly pissed if any of them get reinstated and I paid money to be lumped into an organization along side them.

Should I be pissed that I paid money to be lumped into the same organization as you and a few others? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif Geez, why don't you guys start another petition and ask the USEF to split memberships into two catagories and keep all the crazies in one? I'll sign that one! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Now THAT was humor! We should start a petition!

Coreene
Jan. 11, 2006, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by big dawg:
And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport--once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition.
Oh please, like a little tootage is the same thing.

ss3777
Jan. 11, 2006, 03:48 PM
Susanna A. Jones (Head of School) From Ethel Walker School called me at home today. She wanted me to know that she was sorry about the ad in the Chronicle and that it did not reflect the school's thoughts on PV. As a result there will be a change in the procedure for placing advertisements. She would like to focus on the accomplishments of Julie Welles, etc. etc. They will not be placing another ad discussing the above because they feel it would bring even more negative attention.

It was nice to receive the call. Maybe a small victory for the little people?

ss3777
Jan. 11, 2006, 03:56 PM
have been working here on the left coast and don't have a moment to always immediately respond. That being said, as a person who knows PV and thinks that he in fact is remorseful and regrets his past actions I will speak out. (and no doubt get flamed and repeatedly have my morality, etc questioned by all who disagree with me). I think that those who do not want PV reinstated are within their rights to sign a petition, make t-shirts etc, just as I am within my rights to not sign the same petition. Like any crime, they are judged case by case and so will the reinsatement of PV. When and/if he applies the committee will focus on him and his case alone not all that were involved

I respect your stance even if I do not agree. I can believe that he is remorseful, and certainly has regrets but that does not really equal reinstatement in my humble opinion. A lifetime ban would fit the crime, if anything could possibly fit the crime.

big dawg
Jan. 11, 2006, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Coreene:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by big dawg:
And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport--once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition.
Oh please, like a little tootage is the same thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It amazes me that some of you think that breaking some laws are o.k.--but others are not...he got busted [arrested] 3 times. cocaine is a big problem in this and other countries...the USEF has suspended people because their horses tested positive for the drug and it is a prohibited substance.
Wow, you just want it Your Way, and have no logical point of view it appears.

Snowbird
Jan. 11, 2006, 03:58 PM
What is your definition of "crazies"? I am sitting here in the mother nest of the "Old Boys" network Cincinnati. Are the crazies the ones who crawl forward at a snail's pace ignoring the real state of the world and still believing that what they think is all that's right?

Are they the ones who vote on convoluted rules that are barely intelligible because they are intended to do one thing and actually no one knows what that is? Are they the ones who will not admit what they don't understand what they are accomplishing? Are they the ones who will vote to table to July anything which is slightest bit controversial so they can claim to be on both sides of the issue?

I so YES! you belong to an association where you have no vote, no voice and no knowledge of the plan, no financial accountability and no responsibility but they are the ones who just may reinstate PV who has murdered horses not just taken personal drugs.

I can see a time when all the derelicts of society will be in the horse world because we are the only place who will welcome them and allow them to continue to practice their chosen professions.

These are the people who will vote to reinstate a horse killer into the horse world. We can't allow mules to compete in Hunters and Jumpers because it would be demeaning if they won.

big dawg
Jan. 11, 2006, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by ss3777:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">have been working here on the left coast and don't have a moment to always immediately respond. That being said, as a person who knows PV and thinks that he in fact is remorseful and regrets his past actions I will speak out. (and no doubt get flamed and repeatedly have my morality, etc questioned by all who disagree with me). I think that those who do not want PV reinstated are within their rights to sign a petition, make t-shirts etc, just as I am within my rights to not sign the same petition. Like any crime, they are judged case by case and so will the reinsatement of PV. When and/if he applies the committee will focus on him and his case alone not all that were involved

I respect your stance even if I do not agree. I can believe that he is remorseful, and certainly has regrets but that does not really equal reinstatement in my humble opinion. A lifetime ban would fit the crime, if anything could possibly fit the crime. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

then petition for a Rule Change---they did not give any of these people a "lifetime ban".

big dawg
Jan. 11, 2006, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Snowbird:
We can't allow mules to compete in Hunters and Jumpers because it would be demeaning if they won.

But they won't win!

big dawg
Jan. 11, 2006, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by shade:
I'm sorry BD but you cannot equate what PV and the others did to EL's issues. No where near close. I could forgive EL for his problems, those are personal problems. He didn't have a horse killed. Sorry not the same

You're right, it is not the same, but the Rules about participation in amateur athletic sport have to be applied across the board country to country, since all come under the USOC. Use of performance enhancing drugs is not allowed. Just ask the German Show Jumpin Team who lost their Olympic medal. [Personally, I think they should test both riders and horses, but that is for another day.]

Killing Mr. Ed comes under animal abuse, and their is plenty of animal abuse that goes on in the show world short of killing the horses. That was dealt with by the suspensions. These folks were given the right to petition for reinstatement--they were not give lifetime bans.

Eric was suspended several times for the drug problems/arrests, and the Canadian EF has been more than embarrassed by him. But life goes on, and we are taught that forgiveness is devine. Everyone deserves a second chance.

ss3777
Jan. 11, 2006, 04:15 PM
then petition for a Rule Change---they did not give any of these people a "lifetime ban".


Would you support such a petition?

Coreene
Jan. 11, 2006, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coreene:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by big dawg:
And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport--once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition.
Oh please, like a little tootage is the same thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It amazes me that some of you think that breaking some laws are o.k.--but others are not...he got busted [arrested] 3 times. cocaine is a big problem in this and other countries...the USEF has suspended people because their horses tested positive for the drug and it is a prohibited substance.
Wow, you just want it Your Way, and have no logical point of view it appears. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey, airhead, do not put words in my mouth. If you would read for comprehension, you would see that my opinion is that snorting coke is not the same as having horses killed for insurance $$. Nowhere did it say that I thought it was okay to break any law.

Snowbird
Jan. 11, 2006, 04:20 PM
Dear little pup I cannot imagine how you can claim any comprehension and not understand that it is a worse evil to drug a helpless horse who had no choice and who is the athlete than it is to take drugs as a passenger on one of these wondrous animals.If truly the rider was the athlete then any of those great riders could take any of my common horses and win.

All we are asking for is a little common respect for a horse who perhaps embarrassed an expert by not being as good as expected. He didn't need the money, his owner didn't need the money the horse could have been given away for nothing and no one would have had any real problem and maybe some junior would have had a wonderful Equitation horse for free.

Duffy
Jan. 11, 2006, 06:08 PM
Scout, I think harry was referring to the "extremists" on both sides...

I have friends who have not (and probably will not) sign the petition for their own reasons. I may not understand how anyone would not sign it, but understand and respect those who, for their own personal reasons, are not comfortable or whatever, with signing it.

Disco
Jan. 11, 2006, 06:58 PM
I was not responding to your post. I was just giving my opinion aboout the reinstatement petition. I absolutely agree that drug use should be punished as well. After all the rider is an athlete too.

Disco
Jan. 11, 2006, 07:01 PM
A lifetime ban would be great. It should have already been done.

Duffy
Jan. 11, 2006, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Disco:
A lifetime ban would be great. It should have already been done.

Totally agree. All we "little people" can do now is to make sure the USEF and others hear that we think a lifetime ban is appropriate, and that includes not reinstating those who received limited bans.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 11, 2006, 07:18 PM
The suspensions handed out were not limited, the suspended parties were given no "end" date, but had the ability to apply for reinstatement after x amount of years. The reinstatement is not guaranteed.

big dawg
Jan. 11, 2006, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Coreene:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coreene:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by big dawg:
And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport--once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition.
Oh please, like a little tootage is the same thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It amazes me that some of you think that breaking some laws are o.k.--but others are not...he got busted [arrested] 3 times. cocaine is a big problem in this and other countries...the USEF has suspended people because their horses tested positive for the drug and it is a prohibited substance.
Wow, you just want it Your Way, and have no logical point of view it appears. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey, airhead, do not put words in my mouth. If you would read for comprehension, you would see that my opinion is that snorting coke is not the same as having horses killed for insurance $$. Nowhere did it say that I thought it was okay to break any law. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but you think that it is a lesser crime than killing an animal...are you a vegand

big dawg
Jan. 11, 2006, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by harryjohnson:
The suspensions handed out were not limited, the suspended parties were given no "end" date, but had the ability to apply for reinstatement after x amount of years. The reinstatement is not guaranteed.

Nobody said it was...............

big dawg
Jan. 11, 2006, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by Snowbird:
Dear little pup I cannot imagine how you can claim any comprehension and not understand that it is a worse evil to drug a helpless horse who had no choice and who is the athlete than it is to take drugs as a passenger on one of these wondrous animals.If truly the rider was the athlete then any of those great riders could take any of my common horses and win.

All we are asking for is a little common respect for a horse who perhaps embarrassed an expert by not being as good as expected. He didn't need the money, his owner didn't need the money the horse could have been given away for nothing and no one would have had any real problem and maybe some junior would have had a wonderful Equitation horse for free.

to begin with, loose the disparaging "little pup"...it makes you look small.

the rider is the athlete according to the USOC/and medicating of horses takes place at every horse show every week...anyone involved in the show business knows that.

as for the rest of what you say about the horses killed, I agree with you. I just think everyone deserves a shot at a second chance.

so please be polite, civil and respectful.

big dawg
Jan. 11, 2006, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by ss3777:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">then petition for a Rule Change---they did not give any of these people a "lifetime ban".


Would you support such a petition? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, IF it also tightened up the drug sampling of both riders and horses, and stopped the legalized medication that goes on now that keeps sore horses in the game just because some lady or parent wants to continue to "play" at being a rider.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 11, 2006, 09:38 PM
big dawg, thank you for explaining what I had already made clear. I never would have understood what I was saying otherwise. Obviously you have no agenda other than keeping this thread on page one.

stfatpony
Jan. 11, 2006, 09:42 PM
you go, Harry!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

War Admiral
Jan. 12, 2006, 04:36 AM
Originally posted by big dawg:
yes, IF it also tightened up the drug sampling of both riders and horses, and stopped the legalized medication that goes on now that keeps sore horses in the game just because some lady or parent wants to continue to "play" at being a rider.

Well, let's see how things shake down. We've got 5 years between this round of reinstatement eligibility and the next one, maybe we could play around with the D&M thing again inbetweentimes to keep everybody entertained. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Gonna be a way harder sell than reinstatement, though, IMO. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

ss3777
Jan. 12, 2006, 05:22 AM
Obviously you have no agenda other than keeping this thread on page one.

for which I will be eternally grateful http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BD, I think perhaps when you are "not poking the tiger" you probably have more in common with the people that support the no reinstatement than those that would not. Well, I find myself agreeing with you on at least the following:

Change the rule to lifetime ban for horse killers
Definitely room for improvement in the pharmaceutical end of things
Keep this thread on page 1

Perhaps your bark is worse than your bite? Very useful in big dogs.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

War Admiral
Jan. 12, 2006, 09:25 AM
Quick update - the web site is almost done. I'm just struggling with the URL parking thing & getting it all set up. It ain't pretty b/c I'm no HTML genius, but at least it'll be functional. Once it's up I will welcome any comments, suggestions for improvement, etc. Expect it in a couple of days, hopefully.

And don't forget we have some great merch that horse_poor and Lori B. did. The link is in my sig.

Keep crossposting and thanks for your continued support!!

Coreene
Jan. 12, 2006, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coreene:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coreene:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by big dawg:
And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport--once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition.
Oh please, like a little tootage is the same thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It amazes me that some of you think that breaking some laws are o.k.--but others are not...he got busted [arrested] 3 times. cocaine is a big problem in this and other countries...the USEF has suspended people because their horses tested positive for the drug and it is a prohibited substance.
Wow, you just want it Your Way, and have no logical point of view it appears. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey, airhead, do not put words in my mouth. If you would read for comprehension, you would see that my opinion is that snorting coke is not the same as having horses killed for insurance $$. Nowhere did it say that I thought it was okay to break any law. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but you think that it is a lesser crime than killing an animal...are you a vegand </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A) there is no such thing as a vegand, and it's so stupid that I don't think it will even make it into the COTHisms list
B) yes, I think that snorting coke is a lesser crime than killing an animal; I also think it is wrong to break the law, and I totally agree with Lamaze being banned for a time due to his drug use

Jumphigh83
Jan. 12, 2006, 11:55 AM
Just helping the dog out by bumping this up...

big dawg
Jan. 12, 2006, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Coreene:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coreene:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by big dawg:
And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport--once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition.
Oh please, like a little tootage is the same thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It amazes me that some of you think that breaking some laws are o.k.--but others are not...he got busted [arrested] 3 times. cocaine is a big problem in this and other countries...the USEF has suspended people because their horses tested positive for the drug and it is a prohibited substance.
Wow, you just want it Your Way, and have no logical point of view it appears. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey, airhead, do not put words in my mouth. If you would read for comprehension, you would see that my opinion is that snorting coke is not the same as having horses killed for insurance $$. Nowhere did it say that I thought it was okay to break any law. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

let's not get b....., if you cannot be civil, respectful and polite, you should got to some other chatroom.

big dawg
Jan. 12, 2006, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Coreene:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coreene:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coreene:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by big dawg:
And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport--once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition.
Oh please, like a little tootage is the same thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It amazes me that some of you think that breaking some laws are o.k.--but others are not...he got busted [arrested] 3 times. cocaine is a big problem in this and other countries...the USEF has suspended people because their horses tested positive for the drug and it is a prohibited substance.
Wow, you just want it Your Way, and have no logical point of view it appears. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey, airhead, do not put words in my mouth. If you would read for comprehension, you would see that my opinion is that snorting coke is not the same as having horses killed for insurance $$. Nowhere did it say that I thought it was okay to break any law. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but you think that it is a lesser crime than killing an animal...are you a vegand </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A) there is no such thing as a vegand, and it's so stupid that I don't think it will even make it into the COTHisms list
B) yes, I think that snorting coke is a lesser crime than killing an animal; I also think it is wrong to break the law, and I totally agree with Lamaze being banned for a time due to his drug use </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think Everyone on this thread would agree that you have some kind of a Problem with my view point...if you cannot be civil, respectful and polite, then I think you need to go to some other chatroom.

big dawg
Jan. 12, 2006, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by harryjohnson:
big dawg, thank you for explaining what I had already made clear. I never would have understood what I was saying otherwise. Obviously you have no agenda other than keeping this thread on page one.

I never thought I had an 'agenda'...I just felt this thread is being 'run one-sided.

Coreene
Jan. 12, 2006, 02:48 PM
Pssst, Dawg, let me let you in on a secret: this is not a chat room.

So when you said:

sorry, am not used to these chat room rules and etiquette, etc. this is new for me and i am doing some research for an article i am writing. i was warned about these chat rooms and am finding maybe the warnings were correct. seems there is not much room for differing points of view.
...on January 9, had you not figured out anything since you first began posting in mid December?

big dawg
Jan. 12, 2006, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Coreene:
Pssst, Dawg, let me let you in on a secret: this is not a chat room.

So when you said:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">sorry, am not used to these chat room rules and etiquette, etc. this is new for me and i am doing some research for an article i am writing. i was warned about these chat rooms and am finding maybe the warnings were correct. seems there is not much room for differing points of view.
...on January 9, had you not figured out anything since you first began posting in mid December? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Coreene, you have become TOO CONFRONTATIONAL AND ABUSIVE. Dealing with you is just making me tired...

Coreene
Jan. 12, 2006, 03:01 PM
Dude, I was never dealing with you in the first place. I made a comment re how I thought that snorting coke was not at the same criminal level as killing horses, and you decided to make a bunch of assumptions about me. Which were all wrong.

big dawg
Jan. 12, 2006, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Coreene:
Dude, I was never dealing with you in the first place. I made a comment re how I thought that snorting coke was not at the same criminal level as killing horses, and you decided to make a bunch of assumptions about me. Which were all wrong.

Babe, it is Big Dawg to you, not Dude...WOOF

La Gringa
Jan. 12, 2006, 04:44 PM
Chocolate anybody?? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 12, 2006, 04:53 PM
Big Dawg, probably due to the fact that this thread is the "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread, you might find it to be one sided. What an epiphany! With that said DUDE, I think that my posts are concise enough that they do not need any clarification. If someone feels they need a further explanation, they can freely ask me, they are not in need of your footnotes.

La Gringa
Jan. 12, 2006, 04:58 PM
Big Dawg has dragged this on in the Breeding Board for some time too, his way of getting entertainment I guess. Trying to stir the pot.

Sheila H
Jan. 12, 2006, 07:38 PM
I dont think Eric Lamaze has ever been convicted of a crime.

ShowjumpersUSA
Jan. 12, 2006, 07:57 PM
Terrible story. I'm signing!

Bonnie

big dawg
Jan. 12, 2006, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by harryjohnson:
Big Dawg, probably due to the fact that this thread is the "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread, you might find it to be one sided. What an epiphany! With that said DUDE, I think that my posts are concise enough that they do not need any clarification. If someone feels they need a further explanation, they can freely ask me, they are not in need of your footnotes.

So then, Dude, what you are saying is---only opinions in agreement with the apparent one-sided nature of this thread are to be posted/or, is what you are saying--no one who disagrees with you is to post anything...Woof, Woof [remember I bite]

big dawg
Jan. 12, 2006, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Sheila H:
I dont think Eric Lamaze has ever been convicted of a crime.

yes, he was arrested going into Australia, and then deported.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 12, 2006, 08:36 PM
I never thought I had an 'agenda'...I just felt this thread is being 'run one-sided.

So Dude, you felt you had to footnote my post because the thread was one-sided in nature. My reply was to clue you in to the fact that there is a distinct possibility a thread with the title "The No Reinstatement" thread just might be one-sided. If you are looking for something neutral, try a more neutral topic. I care not if you disagree with me, nor am I impressed with the fact that you bite, froth at the mouth, or possibly have pin worms. If you want to tear apart logical statements, have at it.

big dawg
Jan. 12, 2006, 08:38 PM
Eric missed the 1996 Atlanta Olympics because of a suspension for cocaine use. Then twice in July 2000 he was suspended for illegal drug use. As a previous offender, he faced a lifetime sport ban. He was not allowed to compete at Sydney, but three months late following numerous appeals before the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport, he was let back in the sport. He has been treated entirely differently than Ben Johnson, the runner.

big dawg
Jan. 12, 2006, 08:48 PM
ANNOUNCEMENT

THIS IS THE HARRY JOHNSON POST--ER, POSTED, NO TRESPASSING.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 12, 2006, 08:50 PM
Nice try, dude, but I already have my own thread, this is the NO REINSTATEMENT THREAD.

FuzzyLogic
Jan. 12, 2006, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by harryjohnson:

I also find it very interesting that the Valliere supporters who preach forgiveness and compassion, in a moment's notice turn contentious and petty. It seems to me that as long as their interests are being served, they are happy, but it does not suprise me because their ideas are molded and influenced by someone with that same line of thought. I can see how this discussion has degraded to what it is at times, opinion runs deep on both sides. In the end, a lot of people will be unhappy either way.

I'm not sure if you were counting me as one of the PV supporters, but if you were, I'd like to point out that I have never stated, in any of my posts, that I'm a PV "supporter". http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I also don't agree with you on your comment about the PV supporters....some of them behave as you said, but not all. In fact, I feel that the "other" group come off much, much more aggressive and petty, as a whole. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

FuzzyLogic
Jan. 12, 2006, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Uberraschung:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FuzzyLogic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horse_poor:

So just because it does not say they area USEF member does not mean they are not.[QUOTE]

So the USEF committee have to be psychics? or just assume everyone who signed is a member? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[QUOTE]I have said it before and will say it again—I will be highly pissed if any of them get reinstated and I paid money to be lumped into an organization along side them.

Should I be pissed that I paid money to be lumped into the same organization as you and a few others? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif Geez, why don't you guys start another petition and ask the USEF to split memberships into two catagories and keep all the crazies in one? I'll sign that one! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Now THAT was humor! We should start a petition! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let's do it. Make sure we have the thongs in several sizes as well. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

big dawg
Jan. 12, 2006, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by FuzzyLogic:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uberraschung:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FuzzyLogic:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by horse_poor:

So the USEF committee have to be psychics?

I think they mean psych chicks

big dawg
Jan. 12, 2006, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by harryjohnson:

I also find it very interesting that the Valliere supporters who preach forgiveness and compassion, in a moment's notice turn contentious and petty.

Let's see, hmmm, contentious and petty--this is the guy who keeps calling me DUDE in a most disrepectful manner?...

Sheila H
Jan. 13, 2006, 03:38 AM
Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sheila H:
I dont think Eric Lamaze has ever been convicted of a crime.

yes, he was arrested going into Australia, and then deported. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ummm, no.

Limerick
Jan. 13, 2006, 05:19 AM
big dawg. do you have the news story regarding that happening to Eric? I used to live in Canada and do NOT remember that happening.

I don't think you can compare what happened to Eric to Ben Johnson's case. As an athlete, Ben was clearly using steroids to enhance his performance. He was tested at the Olympics after winning the gold and it was positive. What Eric did (cocaine) is clearly illegal and wrong but could it be conclusively proven that the coke was taken to enhance his performance as an athlete? I don't think so.

At the time, I thought Eric's career was finished. But we all know that many people forgive and forget a LOT of stuff. It would not surprise me to learn that people still seek financial advice from the old high ups at Enron!

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 13, 2006, 05:51 AM
Dude, petty and contentious, I think I simply follow your lead. The good of all this is, with your focus on me, you have left everyone else alone! And as far as being a big dawg, woof woof, the good thing about that, with a big dawg, we can see where you are coming from, I fear the ankle biters far more.

War Admiral
Jan. 13, 2006, 06:03 AM
OK, people, dragging this thread rather forcibly BACK ON TOPIC b/c I don't want Erin to lock it... One thing I'd loff to have on the web site is a calendar of who is eligible to apply for reinstatement when. Can anybody help with that?

One thing I'm still confuzzled about is whether Barney Ward is eligible to apply for reinstatement on 8/29/2009 or whether the subsequent injunction overrides that. Anyone know?

Thanks for any help... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 13, 2006, 06:06 AM
I apologize WA, and thank you for the reminder to keep things on topic. Wouldn't the USEF provide you with such information?

War Admiral
Jan. 13, 2006, 06:12 AM
Haha, don't worry about it Harry, I've had fun playing with Big Dawg too!

Oh yes, I'm sure they would, I'm just taking the "I'm lazy and not thoroughly awake yet" approach! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ss3777
Jan. 13, 2006, 12:31 PM
1867 signatures!!

Khamian Farms
Jan. 14, 2006, 06:40 AM
566 Response HTTP Version Unsupported
This Web page could not be opened with the specified browser HTTP version. Please contact the owner of this Web page for more information.
---------------

Tried to sign, and then got this message. I am on AOL - this may have been addressed, but I don't want to read 47 pages of "woof woof" and David Lee Roth quotes to find it http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Is there a "thank you" thread to these for keeping this thread front page news?

But...if all 47 pages were all harryjohnson, I would be delighted to take the time http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Would be happy to sign, and am a USEF member - help!

Julie
http://www.caspianpony.com

War Admiral
Jan. 14, 2006, 07:33 AM
Khamian Farms, thanks for your support & I'm sorry, it doesn't work with the AOL browser. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Log onto AOL, then minimize the AOL browser and fire up Firefox or Internet Exploiter; you should be able to sign it then! If not, please post again here! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TWF
Jan. 14, 2006, 08:59 AM
Try MS Interent Expolorer...it worked for me...
Thanks for the support Julie!

Limerick
Jan. 14, 2006, 10:23 AM
Julie, if you can't open it with Internet explorer, you can e-mail me your USEF number, and I'd be more than happy to sign for you. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

big dawg
Jan. 14, 2006, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Khamian Farms:
566 Response HTTP Version Unsupported
This Web page could not be opened with the specified browser HTTP version. Please contact the owner of this Web page for more information.
---------------

Tried to sign, and then got this message. I am on AOL - this may have been addressed, but I don't want to read 47 pages of "woof woof" and David Lee Roth quotes to find it http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Is there a "thank you" thread to these for keeping this thread front page news?

But...if all 47 pages were all harryjohnson, I would be delighted to take the time http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Would be happy to sign, and am a USEF member - help!

Julie
http://www.caspianpony.com

I KNEW IT/this is the harry johnson family thread! WOOF, WOOF

Khamian Farms
Jan. 14, 2006, 02:33 PM
Thanks, Nancy - I figured it out - I am number 1889.

Give that perfect grey pony a kiss on the nose from me http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Julie
http://www.caspianpony.com

Limerick
Jan. 15, 2006, 05:48 AM
Glad you were able to sign-wow, lots of signatures.

I'll deliver that kiss this morning along with a peppermint and a baby carrot. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mardi
Jan. 15, 2006, 08:38 PM
Bumping it up

Duffy
Jan. 17, 2006, 10:11 AM
another bump

Snowbird
Jan. 17, 2006, 10:32 AM
Well we bombed at the Convention. I ws referred by a Member of the Board and Bill Moroney was supposed to bring it up to the Hearing Committee Meeting and he never did. Without an opening to discuss it the papers I had with me didn;t do any good.

I was very depressed that there was no interest at all in preventing felons guilty of crimes against horses from being members in good standing. Actually Kenneth Berlin who is in jail is a member in good standing. I find this very perverse.

There was a lot of RAH! RAH! aren't we wonderful but not much interest in our issues. Although there was a survey that showed their big problem was communication and support for the "grassroots". This was convention that focused on what was being done well and didn;t want to hear about anything else.

I'm beginning to believe that going to the Press is the best way to get attention. Anyone with good press contacts out here and interested?

Lori B
Jan. 17, 2006, 10:38 AM
Thanks for trying Snowbird.

Nothing like a little press to make people return your phone calls.

And thanks, WA, for the props on the cafepress page. You are all the best.

Is your web page up yet?

Snowbird
Jan. 17, 2006, 12:46 PM
I should receive the wristbands by January 27th. If those of you interested would email me privately so I can print out the messages with your address and phone number it will be easier for me to keep track of all the orders and donations.

It doesn't print easily from this web site. They are in two sizes 8 3/8 or 7 3/8. Let me know what sizes you prefer.

send to: vikki@usahorseshows.org If you want to donate by credit card I will cover the credit card discounts so the full amount goes into this account.

If you send checks make out to USA Horse Shows Assn. note for the: No-Reinstatement fund.

204 Schooleys Mountain Road
Long Valley, NJ 07853
908-876-4200

Judging from the reaction at the Convention I think it would be a great idea to also put red Ribbon on trailers, stalls anything else you can think of at all horse shows.

Let me know if you want printed ribbon and I'll look into getting it. What do you think of printed stickers to put on all entry forms?

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 17, 2006, 12:48 PM
I do not have any good contacts at the press, but seeing as WEF is going on now, and the Palm Beach paper has covered the topic before.....

Snowbird
Jan. 17, 2006, 12:54 PM
If someone wants to write it up I can send the article to all Equine magazines and Papers including Sidelines. Maybe we can raise enough money for an ad in Sidelines. I will include in our news article in the Equine Journal. We can get a 10% discount for their ad because usAHSA is affiliated with Equine Journal.I'll see about using our free classified ad for the wristbands.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 17, 2006, 12:57 PM
I will caution you, if the USEF showed no interest at their convention, I doubt that even pressure from the media will do anything. Perhaps it is time to give up on the issue.

Duffy
Jan. 17, 2006, 12:58 PM
The fat lady hasn't sung yet, harry! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Snowbird
Jan. 17, 2006, 01:19 PM
I don't know about you Harry but us Hungarians never capitulate. That's why we invented were wolves and vampires; we're so stubborn we don't even quit a job when we're dead. Can't Rest In Peace with a job undone.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 17, 2006, 01:27 PM
Snowbird, I am in love with your indomitable spirit. You truly are from a lost time.

ss3777
Jan. 17, 2006, 01:31 PM
I will caution you, if the USEF showed no interest at their convention, I doubt that even pressure from the media will do anything. Perhaps it is time to give up on the issue.

Now Harry, be careful, you may not be able to maintain your image as the "darling of the COTH BB" with that kind of attitude http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Well I can think of a few rabble rousers that may still endorse the HJ for president theme. Maybe a certain Sheilagh or a large canine.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 17, 2006, 01:35 PM
I do not think I have endeared myself to either of them. With that said, I think the USEF has made its position clear.

Snowbird
Jan. 17, 2006, 01:36 PM
Well Harry I'm just trying to figure out how my undefeatable WWII generation spawned a bunch of wimps. We really believe in the expression in "Public Service". I admire your talent and sense of humor.

I've often thought that today they have it all backwards. Our kids grew up as gentle people and they were raised on games with cops and robbers, cowboys and indians and all those not politically correct things that to day have spawned a generation of kids with no respect for any authority.

Thank God! for the exceptions in every generation.

RNB
Jan. 17, 2006, 01:54 PM
No wimps in my circle of horse friends, Snowbird http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif We get more determined and vocal everyday!

MIKES MCS
Jan. 17, 2006, 02:02 PM
ATT: HARRYJOHNSON AND SNOWBIRD, If you are going to be writing an article on th egrass roots movement to prevent Horse Killers form being reinstated by the USEF could you please send me a copy I would like to submitt it to our Local Horsey publication. It covers the Michigan and Indiana Local Horse Show scene. I think they would publish it and it would get to the people you are talking about, the grass roots of the midwest.. Perhaps you yourselves could get in touch with thier editors.
Equine Times (http://www.equinetimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage)

What about the Plaid Horse magazine, has anyone contacted them, Doesn't thier editor post on this board?The Plaid Horse (http://www.theplaidhorse.com)

Snowbird
Jan. 17, 2006, 02:04 PM
As I said Thank God for the exceptions. When you all are the majority life will be good again.

First Mike I would love someone to write it. I'm on the brink of another fine having been away all week at the convention; having to say good-bye to a good friend and I have only one more day to close my January Show to meet USEF current standards.

War Admiral
Jan. 17, 2006, 02:15 PM
Perhaps it is time to give up on the issue.

Harry, if there is one thing I've learned from my rescued old "A" Circuit horse Avery, it is "NEVER GIVE UP". Not ever.

So Bill Moroney ignored us and didn't put it forward? No disrespect to the good Mr. Moroney who I know works hard and does his best - but in all honesty - scare me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

So nah, I'm not prepared to throw in the towel just because ONE GUY said no.

In fact, now's the time to kick it into overdrive. We still have a boatload and a half of options available.

We need our press group to check in - haven't heard from Gina, not sure if she follows this thread - she was preparing a press release for us.

Buy bracelets, buy merch, WEAR 'em in public. Talk the situation up with every horse person you know. I just kind of assumed my main vet knew all about the horse killings/insurance fraud and I spoke to her today and it turns out she had no clue. A lot of people you would expect to don't! So keep talking it up.

And above all, KEEP CROSSPOSTING!!! USEF has 80,000 members, and I bet between the lot of us we know most of 'em. Don't forget to send it to people who are *not* involved in H/J - your dressage/eventing peeps, your breed peeps, your IHP peeps, etc.

Those of you with contacts overseas, don't forget to send it to them, as well. This will come in useful when it gets to be time to make the F.E.I. aware of the thing.

God willing, the web site should be online tomorrow. The problem is with PairNIC - when you make a change, you have to wait 24 hours for it to take effect. So we'll have to see whether I've got it right this time, hopefully I do. Believe me, I'll post as soon as it's online.

Lastly - I hate to trot cliches out but you know - we are all equestrians. We all work very hard at what we do, and we know how MUCH hard work it really takes to win. So - I still deeply believe we can win this one, but we're going to have to work a lot harder at it.

Many thanks to everyone who is keeping the ball rolling. Like all the rest of y'all, I'm doing this very much part time and I really loff y'all for stepping up to the plate!

War Admiral
Jan. 17, 2006, 02:29 PM
OK peeps, we've got 1966 signatures. Let's get crossposting, and see if we can't get it over the 2,000 mark by midnight! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ss3777
Jan. 17, 2006, 03:58 PM
ATT: HARRYJOHNSON AND SNOWBIRD, If you are going to be writing an article on th egrass roots movement to prevent Horse Killers form being reinstated by the USEF could you please send me a copy

I would also gladly send an article to every association/publication in my neck of the woods, foxhunters, pony club, Area 1 USEA, the local papers, Ethel Walker http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Is there someone with better skills than I that can write this article??? Perhaps a collaboration of sorts?

THANKS!

TWF
Jan. 17, 2006, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by MIKES MCS:
ATT: HARRYJOHNSON AND SNOWBIRD, If you are going to be writing an article on th egrass roots movement to prevent Horse Killers form being reinstated by the USEF could you please send me a copy I would like to submitt it to our Local Horsey publication. It covers the Michigan and Indiana Local Horse Show scene. I think they would publish it and it would get to the people you are talking about, the grass roots of the midwest.. Perhaps you yourselves could get in touch with thier editors.
Equine Times (http://www.equinetimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage)

What about the Plaid Horse magazine, has anyone contacted them, Doesn't thier editor post on this board?The Plaid Horse (http://www.theplaidhorse.com)

The Plaid Horse is ALL over this....expect something from them after their BIG Double Jan/Feb ISSUE

War Admiral
Jan. 17, 2006, 06:05 PM
OK y'all, THE WEB SITE IS UP.

http://www.noreinstatement.org

I still have stuff to do with it but I've got to drive out to the farm so I'll have to catch up with y'all tomorrow!

One Star
Jan. 17, 2006, 06:18 PM
War Admiral, I've alerted my fellow eventers with a new thread in the Eventing Forum:


Please visit the "No Reinstatement" thread in the Hunter/Jumper Forum and read War Admiral's opening message. Follow the link, and try to remember your outrage at those horrifying events. There is a very energized group of CoTHers who are working very hard to raise awareness and opposition to the current efforts by Paul Valliere and others to get reinstated into the USEF after a ten-year suspension for their parts in the horse-killing-for-insurance-money crimes.

They could really use the support, and the signatures on the petition.

Erin, thanks for letting me cross-post.

Limerick
Jan. 17, 2006, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by Snowbird:
Well we bombed at the Convention. I ws referred by a Member of the Board and Bill Moroney was supposed to bring it up to the Hearing Committee Meeting and he never did. Without an opening to discuss it the papers I had with me didn;t do any good.

I was very depressed that there was no interest at all in preventing felons guilty of crimes against horses from being members in good standing. Actually Kenneth Berlin who is in jail is a member in good standing. I find this very perverse.

There was a lot of RAH! RAH! aren't we wonderful but not much interest in our issues. Although there was a survey that showed their big problem was communication and support for the "grassroots". This was convention that focused on what was being done well and didn;t want to hear about anything else.

I'm beginning to believe that going to the Press is the best way to get attention. Anyone with good press contacts out here and interested?

As a USEF member and someone who signed the petition using my number, that non-reaction by the USEF makes me very angry. They should at the very least acknowledge that there are USEF members that are greatly against horse killers being allowed to be USEF members.

We can't give up-our voices deserve to be heard. If USEF officials can write columns in magazines encouraging people to retire their horses properly, they can acknowledge that many horse lovers are still appalled by the murders of at least ten wonderful horses.

I think it's time to take this story to the press for sure.

I was just on the USEF site and looked at the suspension list. Anyone know why PV's horses (Acres Wild) suspensions are listed as starting 01/01/01 whereas the Cellular farms suspensions are dated from 1998. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Showponymom Aefvue Mid Atlantic Division
Jan. 17, 2006, 08:32 PM
WA, the website looks great. Too bad we can't get pics of the horses the killed. I would give it a personal look. I am going to try and forward this to our local publication.

Hopeful Hunter
Jan. 17, 2006, 08:59 PM
Ah.....I AM working on a news release about the petition effort, actually...I just got swamped with real life and work and have not been able to execute this yet.

BUT...it will be done and when it's OK'd by WarAdmiral and anyone else who needs to see it/is quoted in it, I'll be happy to post it and ENCOURAGE everyone to send it around. I'm actually going to send it through AHP but have to do a second version for that to make the distribution fit in with their guidelines (ie it will be going out as my company doing this pro bono campaign...then all the details of the effort).

Sorry it's not done yet...as soon as I earn the board money I'll get to it ;-)!

CFiona
Jan. 17, 2006, 09:41 PM
I would like to get my Equestrian Team in on this petition, there are 25 of us! It's not much, but it will help.

My one concern is if I run across someone who is on the 'other side of the fence' per say. Maybe someone who has done some research and thinks the cases are bogus, whatever. I'm just afraid that I'll get cornered with someone throwing around court dates and legal mumbo-jumbo, and I'll be totally lost. What can I say? Is there anywhere a condensed verion of THE FACTS of the case without bias?

silver
Jan. 17, 2006, 09:49 PM
If the petition is the one I saw quoted elsewhere with all the verbage about "little people" and you really want more people to sign it you need to reword it. I might send a letter to USEF but I wouldn't sign that, it sounds pretty childish to me.

Get a proper "We the undersigned oppose the reinstatement of XXX for the following reasons... " and I'll sign it. I'm guessing a lot of people feel the same way, especially professionals.

Fairview Horse Center
Jan. 17, 2006, 09:53 PM
The book is a good read. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312143583/sr=1-2/qid=...442?%5Fencoding=UTF8 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312143583/sr=1-2/qid=1137563396/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-5246157-3181442?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

Seal Harbor
Jan. 18, 2006, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by silver:
If the petition is the one I saw quoted elsewhere with all the verbage about "little people" and you really want more people to sign it you need to reword it. I might send a letter to USEF but I wouldn't sign that, it sounds pretty childish to me.

Get a proper "We the undersigned oppose the reinstatement of XXX for the following reasons... " and I'll sign it. I'm guessing a lot of people feel the same way, especially professionals.

You obviously didn't read the petition. There is no mention of little people anywhere in it. It's very well crafted (thank you WA)
Follow the link, READ it for yourself and sign if you agree.
http://www.petitiononline.com/valliere/petition.html

War Admiral
Jan. 18, 2006, 05:57 AM
Silver, LOL, nope - the "little people" quote was actually from the group of people who support the "horse killers" - it came from Phelps Media in this article (http://www.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/newsfd/auto/feed/news/2004/03/03/1078293502.26609.6989.2176.html). I'm posting the link b/c IMO it's worth a re-read and hasn't been posted in a while.

Please let me know any thoughts/comments/etc. about the web site & how it could be improved. I was rushing out the door when I posted last night!

Anyplace, thanks for checking in - believe me I know how life gets in the way! If you want, just post it here when you get it done. Many thanks for all your hard work. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

KEEP CROSSPOSTING - we're over 2,000 sigs now.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 18, 2006, 06:06 AM
WA, I have seen your website, congratulations, both on getting it started, and on your 2000 signature mark. On your website, I would suggest a "contact us" button, and buttons to accept donations and purchase merchandise.

Silver Bells
Jan. 18, 2006, 09:25 AM
Awesome.... Over 2,000 have signed!

Limerick
Jan. 18, 2006, 11:02 AM
Thanks Hopeful Hunter-I'm sure you'll do a great job.

Snowbird
Jan. 18, 2006, 11:24 AM
Wonderful! I'm having a tough time with my eyes. They have changed and I just got the new glasses which are not helpful. My left eye has issues that create double vision; I can't even drive.

I do have most of the magazine emails so I can easily send the release to them.

I don't believe for one minute if it was proposed as Rule Change it would get any better a reception. In fact it is in my humble opinion that Article 706 sec. a and m cover the issue.

Limerick
Jan. 18, 2006, 11:47 AM
Snowbird, do you know why the Acres Wild horses' ban began on 01/01/01 whereas the Cellular farm's ones began in 1998? Is it possible that PV's case got reviewed in 2001?

Snowbird
Jan. 18, 2006, 11:57 AM
I don't remember such but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I suspect it was relative to when the Final Decision came down after all appeals in the Court System. PV did turn state's evidence and perhaps expected to skate free like Joe Plemmons.

War Admiral
Jan. 18, 2006, 12:01 PM
Keep crossposting! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

We're starting to get some good support from The Jockey Club and the Saddlebred/Morgan peeps. One lady who is a big show manager/trainer is printing out copies to take to ALL her year-end awards banquets (and believe me, that's a lot of banquets, b/c she works in several USEF breeds and is active in all).

Anyplace, I just got your draft & will glance over in a few mins! Thank youuuuuuu!!!

Midge
Jan. 18, 2006, 12:07 PM
Snowbird, when you brought it up to BM at the convention, did you separate out the reinstatement of the people convicted of the horse killings, or was it all under the 'no felons' umbrella?

Snowbird
Jan. 18, 2006, 12:34 PM
I never mentioned it to Bill Moroney; I didn't even have the opportunity. However, if he knew it came from me he didn't come over to me either. I wasn't sure if he knew the source since the information was from a Member of the Board. And I am not one of his favorite people. I would have not been surprised if my name hadn't come up. I was making enough heat over the Date Rotation Problem.

I was disappointed when I learned from a Member of the Hearing Committee that he never brought it up.The fact is if they agreed with us at all they could have initiated the action in the Hearing Committee and I was told then he could bring it to the Board Meeting for a hearing. I had sent the copies of paper work as documentation of the Virginia Case and referenced PV and Joe Plemmons. They could have dealt with one part, all of it or none of it. Obviously the players had more important business at this meeting and didn't want to muddy the waters. There was no opportunity for an auditor to speak with the Board or at the Committee Meetings unless addressed by the Committee. I felt if there was any interest it would have come up and it didn't.

I think the conflict of interest was the big issue at this meeting. I've been told by someone ho knows that David is paid $500 per day he travels with a $24k cap. So he is not actually getting a salary. But that's not a news flash so I'm not sure why it was brought up or who was behind the issue. They did offer him a salary if it meant that he didn't need to take the Canadian job. He did offer his resignation if the Board wished. I think it was unanimous that he stay in his position.

I have to remind you that these views are those of an outsider and not someone with any inside information. I'm sure that accounts for the differences in opinions.

War Admiral
Jan. 18, 2006, 12:39 PM
Snowbird, my VAGUE recollection of conversations w/ USEF folks last year, which may or may not be correct, is that USEF can't really address it unless/until each individual applies for reinstatement - the application process is what puts it back on the table as a point to be discussed. If that's procedurally incorrect maybe someone in the know can correct me...??

FuzzyLogic
Jan. 18, 2006, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by War Admiral:
Silver, LOL, nope - the "little people" quote was actually from the group of people who support the "horse killers" - it came from Phelps Media in this article (http://www.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/newsfd/auto/feed/news/2004/03/03/1078293502.26609.6989.2176.html).

Now see, I have a problem with your above statement. It was Mason Phelps, the individual, who was quoted as saying "the little guys", in response to complaints over having Paul Valliere judge the Equus Medal. It was NOT "from the group of people who support the "horse killers" ". If you're going to cite quotes, at least try to be exact. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Uberraschung
Jan. 18, 2006, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by War Admiral:
Keep crossposting! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

We're starting to get some good support from The Jockey Club and the Saddlebred/Morgan peeps. One lady who is a big show manager/trainer is printing out copies to take to ALL her year-end awards banquets (and believe me, that's a lot of banquets, b/c she works in several USEF breeds and is active in all).

Anyplace, I just got your draft & will glance over in a few mins! Thank youuuuuuu!!!
Um I'm pretty certain that The Jockey Club and USEF are two entirely separate entities. Why would you go for support from people who have nothing to do with the organization you are trying to keep someone banned from? Why wouldn't you go after actual members of the USEF?

Snowbird
Jan. 18, 2006, 03:37 PM
The USOC is supposed to regulate the USEF as an NGB. The Congress regulates the USOC.

War Admiral
Jan. 18, 2006, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Uberraschung:
Um I'm pretty certain that The Jockey Club and USEF are two entirely separate entities. Why would you go for support from people who have nothing to do with the organization you are trying to keep someone banned from? Why wouldn't you go after actual members of the USEF?

Because (to reiterate) the petition will be sent to the USOC and the FEI as well as USEF. Thus, we need to demonstrate support from all areas of the equine industry.

Also - without going into vast amounts of detail - the equine industry is kind of a small world. There are plenty of JC people with direct ties to USEF, if not to this very case itself. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Some of them are, uh, VERY interested in this case. Very.

Sheila H
Jan. 18, 2006, 06:00 PM
I'm pretty sure the Jockey Club itself wants nothing to do with this gang of haf wits. Maybe you mean you're getting support from some members of the Jockey Club.

Snowbird
Jan. 18, 2006, 08:22 PM
Hopeful Hunter I have sent you a PM regarding the information you requested. Thank you.

FuzzyLogic
Jan. 18, 2006, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by War Admiral:
Also - without going into vast amounts of detail - the equine industry is kind of a small world. There are plenty of JC people with direct ties to USEF, if not to this very case itself. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Some of them are, uh, VERY interested in this case. Very.

Yes, you were correct there; a number of people own top race horses as well as the "A-circuit" hunters and jumpers you love to refer to in your posts. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

TheFlyingScotchman
Jan. 18, 2006, 08:46 PM
"Nothing beats a trial, but a failure"........as you say one should stand up for what he/she believes in......sadly this industry has gone the way of "who's who". Not too many have their own opinions anymore, they feel more comfortable in knowing someone else has already approved the decision they are about to make. I hope there are a boat load of brass knockers out there who are willing to decide this issue based on simple elements of right and wrong, regardless of who is "supposting" whom!
Originally posted by wanna_be:
no offense- i really am playing the devils advocate here- but lets say best case scenario you have a couple thousand people from COTH etc sign your no reinstatement petition- do you really think that this will have any negative impact at all when put up against the thousands of *much more important* signatures/support for reinstatement from trainers, riders OLYMPIANS etc? i just think that while a nice idea, if 100,000 BBers signed a petition and 100 succesful GP riders supported him, well he will be welcomed onto any showgrounds. And for the most part, all of todays showjumping "heroes" DO support him, and have remained friendly with him, and have bought horses for themselves/ clients from him, and admire the way he has stayed in this business and continued to teach younger riders how to in turn become successful in the GP ranks.

I am not saying don't do this, because I believe you should always stand up for what you think is right, I am just saying Look who you are up against- it may be futile.

AlterForTruth
Jan. 18, 2006, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by wanna_be:
i just think that while a nice idea, if 100,000 BBers signed a petition and 100 succesful GP riders supported him, well he will be welcomed onto any showgrounds. And for the most part, all of todays showjumping "heroes" DO support him, and have remained friendly with him, and have bought horses for themselves/ clients from him, and admire the way he has stayed in this business and continued to teach younger riders how to in turn become successful in the GP ranks.

I am not saying don't do this, because I believe you should always stand up for what you think is right, I am just saying Look who you are up against- it may be futile. [/QUOTE]

All you guys really need is a couple of signatures. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter how many successful GP riders or former Olympic riders or USEF board members support reinstatement. Get Anheuser-Busch, Rolex, or one or more of the other major sponsors behind you. Most, if not all, of these corporations do not want any bad publicity surrounding an activity that they sponsor. Look at how many sponsors drop advertisements on TV shows because of controversial subject matters addressed within those shows. Do you think that Budweiser, with its trademark Clydesdales, wants to be associated with an organization that reinstates convicted horse killers? One word from these major sponsors trumps all GP and Olympic riders combined.

silver
Jan. 18, 2006, 09:33 PM
OK, didn't mean to cause offense: the little people piece is linked to or quoted on one of these threads in such a way that I mistook it for the petition. I was pretty surprised by the way I thought it was worded!

I hope the USEF is a temporary setback because I think this is a really big deal. I think alters idea of getting the sponsors involved is great. Eventers, breeders and dressage people are USEF members too and may not know about this situation.

ss3777
Jan. 19, 2006, 04:15 AM
All you guys really need is a couple of signatures. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter how many successful GP riders or former Olympic riders or USEF board members support reinstatement. Get Anheuser-Busch, Rolex, or one or more of the other major sponsors behind you

So true. Here is a list of the sponsors on the USEF page.

http://www.usef.org/content/marketing/sponsors.php

Time to fire up the old network and find some key folks.

Hit them where their wallets are! Isn't that the saying??

War Admiral
Jan. 19, 2006, 05:00 AM
Originally posted by Sheila H:
Maybe you mean you're getting support from some members of the Jockey Club.

Much better way of putting it, Sheila, thank you, yes, that's correct.

And yes, we're working on sponsors. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

blubays
Jan. 19, 2006, 05:46 AM
You guys are so right! Contacting the sponsers is a great idea! Thanks for the list. Remember that you can use the same letter for each one, just change the name of the company.

Angela Freda
Jan. 19, 2006, 06:50 AM
Would it be helpful if concerned horsemen contacted these sponsors on their own and expressed their concern that this person was able to apply for reinstatement?
The idea being: making more noise, and creating an awareness that the digust over what these people did, and the fact that USEF would allow them to apply for reinstatement ever is widespread.

Snowbird
Jan. 19, 2006, 07:03 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif It would be wonderful if there was a bag of mail on the desk of each CEO of a sponsor and indicate that this affects your feeling about their product as well. All the separate letters would fill in the whole picture without one letter being five pages long.

TWF
Jan. 19, 2006, 07:12 AM
" the Appaloosa Horse Club has joined the National Federation’s equestrian family, as a 2006 United States Equestrian Federation Affiliated Association. With more than 28,000 members and hundreds of thousands of horses registered through the Appaloosa Horse Club’s International Breed Registry, it’s clear this breed will continue to command attention in the 21st century." USEF Press Release January 5, 2006

I agree with putting pressure on sponsors...even the shareholders would be interested if the Sponsors remain cool to action.

Perhaps the new members of the USEF would be interested in hearing about this issue? What other organizations outside this BB and other discussions could be contacted?
United States Equestrian Federation, Inc : Eq Sports : Breeds (http://www.usef.org/content/equestrianSports/breeds.php)

Note the Appaloosa organization is not on the list from the link above. Since Western sports are now "International"...I think there are a significant number of AQHA members competing in USEF events...Now THAT'S a JACKPOT to tap!

RNB
Jan. 19, 2006, 07:40 AM
TWF ~ I like your idea about contacting the AQHA. They are a huge association with a lot of vocal members.

War Admiral
Jan. 19, 2006, 07:41 AM
Agree completely with Snowbird & TWF. Great ideas ladies!

That's actually great news about the App peeps. I know it doesn't seem that way sometimes, but I'm still a pretty big believer in USEF - until they give me reason not to be!

TWF
Jan. 19, 2006, 07:56 AM
FYI 347,911 people were members of AQHA on New Year’s Eve – 2003.

The September issue of America’s Horse magazine- the AQHA's offical magazine was was mailed to nearly 600,000 horse-owning households. Nearly 14,000 people joined AQHA from that one issue.

The AQHA has recognized events in association with the USEF.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 19, 2006, 08:01 AM
Has anyone considered PRCA? I am sure they would welcome the chance to participate in something that defined animal cruelty so succinctly.

War Admiral
Jan. 19, 2006, 08:03 AM
To be honest I'm not sure who they are, Harry - any info?

RNB
Jan. 19, 2006, 08:04 AM
Me either War Admiral. A little help Harry.

harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens
Jan. 19, 2006, 08:05 AM
PRCA is the Professional Rodeo Cowboy's Association. Not affiliated with USEF in any way, but with a bigger budget and a self vested interest in turning the plight of abused animals to another venue.

TWF
Jan. 19, 2006, 08:11 AM
Historically, I think cowboys hung horse theives...

RNB
Jan. 19, 2006, 08:13 AM
TWF ~ perhaps we need some "cowboys" on a few governing boards!!

War Admiral
Jan. 19, 2006, 08:37 AM
Sorry for the crosspost, but could anyone post or PM me a pic of one of the bracelets?

Also, if you're one of the folks making them could you please PM or post here the ordering info?

I want to link to all the bracelet makers on http://www.noreinstatement.org.
Thankies!!

Hopeful Hunter
Jan. 19, 2006, 09:38 AM
OK...the news release that can be used is now posted here (http://chronicleforums.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/7076024331/m/900204568)

War Admiral
Jan. 19, 2006, 10:30 AM
Web site is now updated w/ press release & I'm outta here... It's supposed to rain the next few days so I need to go work some horsies...

N&B&T
Jan. 19, 2006, 12:22 PM
There is a reporter who would like to talk to Palm Beach County residents, seasonal or year-round, about the website and the petition.

PT me for how to contact the reporter.

N&B&T
Jan. 20, 2006, 04:04 AM
bump

TWF
Jan. 20, 2006, 06:08 AM
Bump...just found a Quarter Horse on the Main page.....again...I believe all of our members and associates would be interested in this issue of reinstatement. From the USEF convention thread..it appears the Board is SILENT on this issue and the petition.