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CosMonster
Aug. 3, 2010, 10:51 AM
My beloved old kitty died last night. :( He had had a seizure, and the vet recommended that we wait a few days to make sure his hiding and not eating much was not just post seizure disorientation. Last night, though, he started breathing in a very labored way and twitching. I knew he was dying, and called the vet because I know those things can be drawn out and I didn't want him to suffer.

The vet, though, was off on a livestock emergency call. We don't have an emergency vet around here, and I couldn't reach the only other vet practice in the area. I was looking up numbers for the nearest emergency vet (about 50 miles away) when he passed.

That made me think...I know how to humanely put down a horse if the vet is far out and it will end their suffering, although thank God I have never had to do it. But what about small animals? I am thankful that he seemed to pass without much suffering, but it can't have been comfortable. What if he had spent the night suffering? I know it can happen. I knew he wasn't going to make it--in fact I knew the seizure was the beginning of the end (he was 24, and his health had been declining somewhat recently, just not enough that his quality of life was gone), but the vet didn't want to euth yet and I was willing to try.

I am sorry if this thread is inappropriate, I will close it if I need to. But I just keep running through "what-ifs" in my head and I find myself really worried that I'll be in this situation again, but the cat will be in pain. Are there veterinary guidelines for humanely euthanizing a dog or cat like there are with livestock? If not, how do others who live in remote areas deal with the lack of 24/7 vet availability in small animal emergencies?

I know how to deal with this in horses, but I feel useless with small animals. And I miss my kitty.

appaloosalady
Aug. 3, 2010, 10:59 AM
First, let me say I am sorry for the passing of your kitty and that it sounds like he truly did not suffer much in the end.

If I have a small animal suffering, I have my husband shoot them the same as he would a horse in the same situation, just with a smaller caliber weapon like a .22. If he wasn't home I would do it myself, but have been lucky enough not to have to deal with that particular situation.

Zu Zu
Aug. 3, 2010, 11:02 AM
Thoughts and prayers and huge hugs for you today ~ RIP Kitty ~

I, too wonder about this ~ thanks for posting ~ interested in this information ~ as I am always so "paralyzed" with my sick animals & vets are sometimes, rather frequently not available = weekends and Holidays.

ReSomething
Aug. 3, 2010, 11:07 AM
I also have a DH who hunts and he would dispatch any small animal the same way. It would still be a very sad and horrible thing to have to do and I am very sorry about your poor kitty.

Concordia
Aug. 3, 2010, 11:08 AM
So sorry for your loss. 24, wow! What a long life - and it must have been a good one with you because it is very obvious how much you cared for and loved him.

This is a hard topic, but I would guess shooting may be the best bet in this type of situation, but I would pray none of us ever have to pull the trigger on our own furry family members.

Pancakes
Aug. 3, 2010, 11:16 AM
For a dog or a cat, and if you absolutely cannot get to a vet in time to euthanize your animal, a well-placed gunshot would have to be the only "humane" quick solution I can think of.

I hope no one ever has to do that.

I'm really sorry on the passing of your kitty. It must have been very difficult for you. :(

fordtraktor
Aug. 3, 2010, 11:16 AM
So sorry for your loss, CosMonster. 24 is a wonderful old age for a kitty, and he was obviously a very lucky and loved boy.

A kitty or dog's head is so small I imagine it is hard to go wrong shooting them in the head. Luckily have never had to do it on a beloved pet, but have used it on groundhogs, raccoons, snakes and whatnot with success.

wendy
Aug. 3, 2010, 11:27 AM
well, horrible memory, but cat hit by car, no guns, nothing, person ended up doing the necessary thing with a shovel blade to the base of the neck.

deltawave
Aug. 3, 2010, 11:33 AM
I have done it once, and would never claim that it is foolproof, effective, or recommended, but this is what I did:

Barn kitty got run over and was hopelessly injured, awake but in obvious pain. Vet wouldn't come out "just to euthanize a barn cat". :( (no current vet that I am using) and I was dead broke and no emergency vet facilities around in those days.

All I could do was give the poor thing a giant slug (like 5cc) of ACE (which was all I had on hand) and wait for it to be deeply sedated, then I suffocated it with a towel. No struggle, the poor thing purred right until the moment it went out. Can't say how long the poor thing might have lasted without it, for all I know it went into shock all on its own and died, but at least it had someone to hold it and try; I felt like I had to do something. :(

Arcadien
Aug. 3, 2010, 11:40 AM
One of the greatest horrors in life to me is to come upon a small animal suffering by the road, obviously mortally wounded, writhing in agony.

Thanking heavens I finally found the strength to stop my car and take care of it - I find a big enough rock, say a little prayer and then - lights out.

It is still very hard, but IMHO much better to deal with than having the think of the poor creature struggling hours or even days in that condition. I thank heavens I found the inner strength to do it.

A .22 would be much easier I think, but that's not always on hand. For a small creature in agony, a person with the courage to wield a heavy object on its head is the most merciful thing to happen the poor soul.

Bless you for thinking of this - I know several horse owner friends who just can't deal with it - they shudder and drive away, or hide the poor suffering animal away from sight and sound until someone else comes along to deal with it -or worse, it perishes in agony waiting.

Each person who finds the courage to face & deal with these situations is one more poor little souls chance at a better, quicker end.

Sorry for your loss, ((hugs))

fordtraktor
Aug. 3, 2010, 11:41 AM
Ugh, reminds me of the time I killed a squirrel by crushing its head with my foot at college. Poor thing fell out of a tree and broke its back -- everything behind the shoulders was dragging and it was screeching in agony. Horrible to have to do. I did wrap it in my sweater so it wouldn't see the end coming. My stomach still turns thinking about stomping on it, but it was the merciful thing.

The shovel would work better, and is my usual method for offing snakes. I like the Ace idea -- I wonder how much it would take to overdose a kitty or dog and just let it go to sleep forever that way.

mvp
Aug. 3, 2010, 11:43 AM
Condolences for the loss of your grand old man.

Not packing heat myself, I'd have to resort to more primitive weaponry and it would be very, very hard. I do like the idea of drugging them beyond perception first, however.

What about a massive overdose of insulin? A friend with an old diabetic cat had hers modify his diet, not tell her about that and go into an insulin-induced seizure. It sucked then (by the cat's standards), caused permanent neurological damage (which he didn't seem to mind to much) and cost her a great deal of money. She did not want to do this again, so her vet explained that should this happen again, she could merely add more insulin and quietly finish him off.

Sorry for the rather fuzzy details, but it sounds like the least catastrophic way to do a hard job.

animaldoc
Aug. 3, 2010, 11:56 AM
So sorry for your loss.....

The AVMA (American Veterinary Medical Association) has published acceptable/conditionally acceptable/unacceptable methods of euthanasia here:
http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf

There isn't a good answer to your question (because for small animals like cats/dogs there aren't many acceptable/conditionally acceptable ways to euthanize "in the field". If you had any sedatives (xylazine/ace) for your horses, you could always give that until you could get to a veterinarian (or until they could come to you). An overdose of a sedative might be enough to euthanize a sick pet, or if it wasn't a small dose of euthanasia solution would probably be needed.

Bluey
Aug. 3, 2010, 12:02 PM
So sorry about your kitty, glad it didn't have to suffer much.

The last cat I had to euthanize was a stray that somehow came the many miles of empty land and ended up here.
Our wildlife is NOT kind to cats, that is why we quit getting any barn cats.
I saw this feral acting cat one evening, found him the next morning, disemboweled but still trying to get away from me, I would say courtesy of our resident bobcat and a quick .22 helped him go quickly.:cry:

What I always wonder is, when someone finds an injured animal, are they really knowledgeable enough to be sure the injuries are terminal, other than when it is very obvious, as the cat here the other day?

Now, with the OP's kitty, there was not question, it was her cat and she knew it well.

This is a good thread, so people think this thru and have a sensible plan, if and when they have such situations happen to them.:(

Festivity
Aug. 3, 2010, 12:05 PM
Sorry for your loss, but thank you for bringing up a topic all of us with lots of critters should think about. 24 years on a cat is amazing, I am sure he knew he was loved when he passed. ((hugs))

With really small animals like chinchillas, in emergencies it is possible to use dry ice, or baking soda and vinegar, in a sealed container. They basically fall asleep and don't wake up. I don't know if this would work on a dog or a cat, the trick might be finding a big enough container and making sure that you generate enough carbon dioxide. I have fortunately only had to use this once on a chinchilla and she passed quietly.

deltawave
Aug. 3, 2010, 12:23 PM
animaldoc, what a great reference to keep and hope NEVER needs to be opened. Thanks for posting it.

I agree this is a great thread, if only to remind us to think about the topic once in a while and to have some sort of plan.

CosMonster
Aug. 3, 2010, 12:43 PM
Thanks all for your kind words and good ideas, and for taking this in the spirit it was intended...I was a bit hesitant to post but I didn't know where else to talk about this and I felt like I needed to know. Bubba, my cat (I didn't name him, and actually we tried to rename him several times but it really fit for some reason), was really loved. I just got in from burying him beneath our junipers...my landlord will probably want to kill me for it (actually not really, she's a dear friend but she put a lot of work into those plants, and we're buying the place anyway) because I had to chop through some roots, but I couldn't bear to leave him in open desert with no shade even though I know it's not really him anymore, and also the junipers are fenced in so no dogs or coyotes can get in to mess with the grave and they have tons of roots.

deltawave, thanks for sharing your experience using ACE on small animals. Before he passed, I was thinking about using some on him to get him up to the emergency vet, but I had no idea what to do. In retrospect I guess it didn't matter since I knew he was dying and the worst it could do was kill him, but I'm so hesitant to use tranqs on any animal, and being upset I wasn't thinking clearly. I just keep a bottle on hand for absolute emergencies and have literally never used it in 7 years of being a full-time professional trainer (which I know isn't that much relatively, but it's not one horse in the backyard either--also don't worry, I do replace it when it expires).

Festivity, I've used that method on betta fish and had thought about it with regards to cats, but my only concern would be that they would freak at being closed in. By the time Bubba passed he was beyond noticing that sort of thing, but in the days leading up to it (when the vet was saying post-seizure, but I think it was a pretty natural behavior for a dying animal) I think he might have panicked as he still wanted to be around people. Do you know how quickly that works?

Otherwise it seems like a small caliber weapon is the best. My heart goes out to those who have had to euthanize strays or injured wild animals with shovels or boot heels...I've done that too and even if it is a pest which you wouldn't want in your barn normally, at least for me it is hard to see them suffering and put an end to it.

edit: thanks too to animaldoc...that file is saved in case I get in this situation again, although I couldn't manage more than brief review right now. It seems to cover the subject well, and is pretty much what I was looking for. I also hope no one needs it...it's a terrible position to be in.

Laurierace
Aug. 3, 2010, 02:32 PM
I am so sorry for your loss. I have used an overdose of dormosedan to euth a cat before. I injected 2ccs into the abdomen. It took about an hour but that hour was extremely peaceful. The cat had been in tremendous distress but within a minute or two started to settle down and then went to sleep. Eventually the breaths became farther and farther between and then stopped. I sobbed the whole time because this was the first time I had ever been the one to do the euthing. Usually I just watch and cuddle. While I would prefer it to be done quickly by a vet I would not hesitate to do it this way again if necessary.

scheherazadetbmare
Aug. 3, 2010, 02:35 PM
I always hold my dogs and cats and horses when the vet euths them. I prefer to do it with my regular vet as some of the emergency room vets are not so sympathetic to us. (some are nice but some are callous.)

My vets (and many vets with a daily practice) euth wild and stray animals for free. I've been lucky to take in squirrels and cats and dogs I've found in the road to whatever vet was in that city or county and never was charged for euth-ing.

And my regular small animal vets have never charged for euth-ing.
I guess the euthanol that is used for horses is more expensive? I've always been charged for horse euth-ing. Of course I always have a big dose of ketamine administered first so my horses have always been "asleep" when they are euth-ed.


ETA: I always drive my small animals to the vet for euth-ing. Ditto the injured animals I pick up on the road. Carrier in truck/car for that very purpose.

Ruesia
Aug. 3, 2010, 02:43 PM
I'm so sorry for your loss. Being a registered euthanasia technician for small animals, I must say I was surprised to find that I was stumped on the best method for emergency euth. techniques. Personally, I couldn't imagine shooting my own animal, although I know in extreme situations, I would if I had to. While animaldoc posted acceptable euth. methods, I have to voice my agreement that sedating the animal prior to any action (if possible) is the best way to ensure it passes peacefully. Obviously if the situation is so severe that you cannot sedate the animal quickly, then performing the euth. immediately would be the most humane method. Ultimately, whatever is going to end the animal's suffering is the humane and best way to ease the transition. Again, my thoughts go out to you. I hope that none of us ever have to refer to these accepted methods, but ultimately, everyone should be prepared in the event that the worst happens. God bless.

Zu Zu
Aug. 3, 2010, 02:52 PM
This thread is extremely important :yes: AS important as the thread on "folding a horse" ~ IMHO this is what Coth is all about ~ useful information ~ Thank You for posting ~ each and everyone of you Cothers ~ :cool::D

CosMonster
Aug. 3, 2010, 02:59 PM
Ruesia, are horse tranqs acceptable to use on a dog or cat in emergencies (I'm speaking situations like mine or the others posted in this thread, where they animal is clearly dying) prior to euthanasia by whatever method? I do think that drugs are great in these types of situations...I know when I had a bad riding accident years ago, I was doped up to the point where they could have shot me and I wouldn't have cared. I imagine that's even more true for animals who simply live in the moment. I just wouldn't want to make things worse by the animal having a bad reaction to the drug (of course that's always a risk, but generally speaking).

I've never had a small animal emergency before where a vet wasn't around at all...like, it would have taken an hour minimum to get vet care, and probably more. But I think for those of us in very small towns and rural areas (especially out west where distances can be huge) it probably isn't unheard of.

DiablosHalo
Aug. 3, 2010, 03:34 PM
For those that have given tranq as a hold over or as euth- how did you administer the drug? Was it oral, IM, or IV? I've done subq on cats/dogs- but never found a vein in either. I can imagine it'd be hard to catch a vein on a small animal?

Watermark Farm
Aug. 3, 2010, 04:16 PM
I'm so sorry about the loss of your kitty. You must have been a really wonderful cat mommy to have had him for 24 years. Hugs to you.

3horsemom
Aug. 3, 2010, 04:27 PM
i am so sorry about your cat. it must be an empty house without him. just wanted to add my thanks for starting this thread as it is something that all of us might have to deal with one day.

CosMonster
Aug. 3, 2010, 04:44 PM
Thanks again for the kind remarks...I am second-guessing myself a bit as I feel I should have had him put down at the initial vet visit after his seizure, because I knew it was the end for him...but I keep telling myself he was so very old and I followed the vet's advice and there was nothing else to do. I'm not sure my vet would have euth'd if I had asked, and I'm sure I would have been wondering if I'd done it too soon it had been done then.

And I'm really glad this thread has gotten people thinking. I had never thought about it before even though I was prepared for livestock emergencies...but for the little guys there was always a 24-hour emergency vet available, until I moved and it didn't occur to me to figure that out and then suddenly there wasn't. I think probably I'm not the only COTHer in this situation, where it might be more cruel to drive them to the e-vet than to put them down at home.

Rhyadawn
Aug. 3, 2010, 04:45 PM
For a dog or a cat, and if you absolutely cannot get to a vet in time to euthanize your animal, a well-placed gunshot would have to be the only "humane" quick solution I can think of.

I hope no one ever has to do that.

I'm really sorry on the passing of your kitty. It must have been very difficult for you. :(

I'm very sorry for your loss.

Agreed though. I would hate to have my pet (or any animal) suffer, and that's why I have friends that I know I could get hold of quickly that could take care of the situation. I would do it myself, but I think if it were my own I would be crying too hard to see.

Actually, after having my 21 year old cat put "humanely" to sleep I decided that I would not be returning to that vet. I always stay with them, and was horrified at the process with that vet.

Bluey
Aug. 3, 2010, 04:56 PM
About using ACE cats, I remember our old vet long ago telling us ACE was contraindicated for cats, something about pressure, maybe intraocular pressure?
Sorry, it was long ago, just remember him saying "for this reason, not really good for cats, causes bad reactions".

I wonder if a vet here may comment on that?
Even if the cat is terminal, do we want it to have to go thru a bad reaction, if it indeed may happen?

CosMonster
Aug. 3, 2010, 05:24 PM
... but I think if it were my own I would be crying too hard to see.

That's my fear, too. I love target shooting and am a pretty good marksman, and I have taken care of the euthanasia of boarded horses or horses owned by the farm I worked for without too much emotion at the time (although of course I was sad and have actually always cried about it later, but at the time I was okay), but it's so different when it is your own. I found Bubba dead at 7 AM and buried him by 10 AM (not sure of the exact time there), and I'm still crying about it. When I was digging his grave I was crying so hard I kept having to take breaks to clean my glasses so I could see.

Ah, I'm turning this into a thread about my cat where I really did intend for it to be about emergency euthanasia of small animals because that's such a bad spot to be in. I'll try to limit the personal posts from here on out.

Bluey, I thought I had heard the same thing about Ace with non-equines. I think if they're dying for whatever reason, our job is to make it as comfortable and painless as possible, and I'd hate to cause an adverse drug reaction. I'd love for someone with more knowledge to chime in.

Sing Mia Song
Aug. 3, 2010, 06:10 PM
Registered vet tech here.

Ace can lower the seizure threshhold, so in a cat with a history of seizures, it may not be the optimal choice.

With regard to administration, you can inject the sedative into the abdomen if you can't hit a vein. That would probably be the least objectionable method for the animal. Some drugs are particularly painful when injected SQ or IM.

A word of caution on Ace--while I've known dogs that died of (unintentional) ace overdoses, I've also know ones that slept off 3-5 ccs! Granted, these were bigger dogs, but if you're trying to euthanize, it would likely not be as effective as, say, dormosedan.

EKLay
Aug. 3, 2010, 07:12 PM
I've had to euth 3 of my pet rats myself, since the vet where I was living at the time refused to do so. (He first laughed at the idea of humanely euthing a rat and when pressed, said if I really wanted to he'd inject into the heart, but wouldn't sedate first. *shudder*)

I had worked in a college's animal science department the first two years of college and whenever they needed cadaver rats/mice/etc we would put dry ice in a small container, secure it inside an airtight aquarium (high enough up that the rat or mouse couldn't reach the dry ice), put the rat or mouse inside and pour a small amount of water onto the dry ice. Once the lid was secure it took very little time for the rat to just go to sleep. We would always leave them in for 10 minutes, to be sure they were truly gone, but it always worked and I never had anyone get upset or freaked out during the process.

Arcadien
Aug. 3, 2010, 10:46 PM
I've had to euth 3 of my pet rats myself, since the vet where I was living at the time refused to do so. (He first laughed at the idea of humanely euthing a rat and when pressed, said if I really wanted to he'd inject into the heart, but wouldn't sedate first. *shudder*)


Oh, shudder! I'm so sorry...

I once had a rat infestation in my own barn, and after several inadequate control measures failed, had to call in the experts - but I could hardly sleep the week they checked those poison boxes daily, for I knew it wasn't a pleasant end for any creature...

My neighbor ended any attempt at civilities on my part, when I indicated my distress at using poison or "stick boards", by exclaiming "but they are only RATs!!!" as if such a creature had any less sense of pain or suffering... (note, same guy thinks a walk outside the kennel 2 or 3 times a year suffices for his Rottie's exercise, sigh)

After I met someone's pet rat (they are the most affectionate, sweet creatures, when domesticated) and having had Gerbils my college dorm life, I can't bear the thought of a rodent's suffering, any more than I can a horse, a dog, cat, ... heck, I may as well admit, I feel a little bad for the flies stuck in the sticky tape I hang in my feed room! :yes: But, in that case, like with the rat infestation i had, i knew something has to be done!

Bless your poor little pet rat's souls - and may more vets be sensitive to care for all creatures, great and small!!!

Bluey
Aug. 3, 2010, 10:59 PM
I think you would like our small animal vet.:yes:
He is so extremely kind, if you bring him your rats, he will smile at them, not frown at you.:no:
I think that if you brought him a crocroach with a broken leg, he would splint it for you.:cool:

I feel sorry for those with stories of less than caring vets.:(

Flying Hearts
Aug. 3, 2010, 11:08 PM
I feel bad for the flies on my sticky tape too!

I had my ancient kitty die in July, and it was a Sunday as well as a holiday so everything was closed, and she was completely paralyzed and dying and needed to die now... I too wondered how to euth her myself, and a gun is not an option for me as I don't own one nor know how to use one. I ended up giving her some ace powder in her mouth which did quiet her down a little (all I had), and kept thinking she would die on her own any moment - after hours of thinking that, I did load her up and take her to an emergency clinic in the middle of the night, but I felt awful that she had to take the long car ride there - it was obviously stressful for her and I feel just awful when I think how much she suffered before she went.

Anyway, what amount of what drugs can be given in what way to euth a cat or dog in an emergency situation? I'd truly love to know just to avoid another animal suffering like my kitty did... please someone, share some knowledge...

shea'smom
Aug. 3, 2010, 11:12 PM
I agree about the flies on the sticky tape. I have to tell them I'm sorry :(
I once had a very proud collie bring me a half dead rabbit. I didn't know what to do, so just thought I could leave it for him to finish off. An hour, later, poor bunny was still alive. I took it to the vet and asked him how I could destroy one in similar circumstances. He was horrified that I would do it myself! But what are you going to do on a sat night or something.
Yucky but necessary topic.

Laurierace
Aug. 4, 2010, 08:42 AM
I agree about the flies on the sticky tape. I have to tell them I'm sorry :(
I once had a very proud collie bring me a half dead rabbit. I didn't know what to do, so just thought I could leave it for him to finish off. An hour, later, poor bunny was still alive. I took it to the vet and asked him how I could destroy one in similar circumstances. He was horrified that I would do it myself! But what are you going to do on a sat night or something.
Yucky but necessary topic.
Actually that is how I learned how to euth small animals. My cat brought me a baby bunny that now had a window in it as in you could see out the other side. I too thought for sure it would die any minute but it didn't so I took it to the race track and my vet injected euthanasia solution into its abdomen. He then told me that any strong sedative like dormosedan or xylazine would have worked. I drove the now dead bunny all the way back home and asked my hubby to bury it in our pet cemetery. He threw it in the garbage....

cllane1
Aug. 4, 2010, 09:23 AM
Our barn kitty brought up a baby rabbit a few weeks ago. Looked alert and perfect, except for a small hole through which its entrails were protruding. I knew I was going to have to find a way to hasten its end humanely. I thought I could quickly wring its neck (I used to go bird hunting with my dad and could always easily wring the necks of birds that weren't quite dead), but ended up using a .22. I hated doing it, but I know it was the right thing to do.

oldbutnotdead
Aug. 4, 2010, 12:24 PM
My small animal vet operated on a pet fish once. :)

I think that it is important to have a plan to euthanize small animals, as well as to deal with euthanizing an equine, particularly in case of a trailer accident. I will always remember beings asked, when the road in the middle of nowhere was closed to due an accident with a horse trailer, if I had a gun . . . .

deltawave
Aug. 4, 2010, 12:41 PM
ACE can lower the seizure threshold in ANY animal, and does not really cause "sleepiness" so much as just making them . . . quiet. But in my case it was the only thing I had on hand, quiet was better than nothing, and a grand mal seizure (with subsequent loss of consciousness) wouldn't have been the worst thing for the kitty as I was going to suffocate it anyhow. I gave the 5cc of ACE IM, in the thigh.

Cindyg
Aug. 4, 2010, 09:07 PM
So, dry ice and water will kill an animal? Where can one buy dry ice? I'd like to keep some on hand.

I have pet mice, and they don't live long. But they are **PETS**, and I'm not interested in seeing them die long, painful deaths.

Has anybody ever heard of using the exhaust pipe of the car? I've read about putting the little pet in a ziplock bag, securing it to the exhaust pipe, and letting it run a little while.

Not a pleasant topic. And I've not had to do this. But I want to be prepared. I've asked my vet if there is anything I can keep on hand (Morphine?) He said no.

Where can I get dry ice?

Arcadien
Aug. 4, 2010, 10:39 PM
Aww Nin, I symathize with your compassion for the "littlest" guys...

I'm thinking the quickest most convenient option would be the blow to the head (maybe snuggled and then tucked into a cloth or piece of towel to make it easier for both!), rather than the zip loc bag/asphyxiation route, but both are better than suffering a long while -

Bless you for thinking of the littlest ones -

Sorry don't know anything about getting dry ice :confused:

Pancakes
Aug. 4, 2010, 11:27 PM
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/roommates-face-animal-cruelty-charges-for-suffocating-ailing-pet/1112900

This is a timely discussion.

I, for one, find it absolutely appalling that people would choose to end their pet's life like this, particularly when there are no shortage of animal shelters or vets that would be willing to carry out a free "mercy" euthanasia. I know I've done it more than once since moving here in June. These men should be charged with cruelty. There is no reason that poor little dog had to suffocate to death. I don't think anyone here would disagree, either. I'm just saying that this is seen as an inhumane, cruel act.

I understand that not everyone lives within a reasonable distance of a vet; however, I think if that is the case, you should carry a firearm for these kinds of situations. Pre-medicating a pet with ace is not always a reliable means of sedation depending on the animal and its sickness, and ace does not have a lot of pain-killing effects beyond that of sedation. I suppose if you had a very large amount you could try to overdose the pet if there truly was no option.

What a sad thread.

EponaRoan
Aug. 5, 2010, 01:40 AM
So, dry ice and water will kill an animal? Where can one buy dry ice? I'd like to keep some on hand.

Where can I get dry ice?

A lot of grocery stores carry it. It's generally in a small locked freezer at the front of the store since you can't purchase it (here) unless you're 18 or older.

It's not something you can keep on hand as it disintegrates within a few days.

They say this is a listing of sources for dry ice:

http://www.dryicedirectory.com/

MsM
Aug. 5, 2010, 08:41 AM
For rats and other animals of similar size, I was taught how to dislocate their necks. :eek: Basically, you put something stong, like the handle of a screwdriver horizonally behind the ears. Then yank quickly and strongly on the tail or body. Done correctly, it is very fast.

wildlifer
Aug. 5, 2010, 09:49 AM
Has anybody ever heard of using the exhaust pipe of the car? I've read about putting the little pet in a ziplock bag, securing it to the exhaust pipe, and letting it run a little while.



Don't do it -- my boss back when I worked on a wildlife refuge killed a skunk this way. Poor thing thrashed around in the bag before it finally died. I'd rather he just have shot it (well, I'd really rather he not killed it at all, but not my decision to make, sigh).

Rubyfree
Aug. 5, 2010, 10:29 AM
What a sad topic, but an important one. Cosmonster, I am sorry for the loss of your cat.

I have often wondered if there was something I could keep on hand to end suffering should things go wrong at the wrong time.

Last spring I had cause to regret not researching this further when my sweet old lady dog had a massive stroke and began seizing uncontrollably. My regular vet is an hour away, the Evet is around 30 min with traffic, and while I had good relationships with some clinics closer by I had a terrible time raising anyone that morning. I finally got ahold of a clinic up the street who I had been to before, but the girl who answered the phone was extremely new (as in first day- I don't fault this kid at all, it was just a horrible moment to have her pick up the phone!) and was trying very hard to follow the procedures laid out to her in training. By the time I got to talk to someone who knew me and explain that my dog did not need to be SEEN, she just needed to be put down ASAP (to which they responded YES, COME NOW!) it was too late and my poor girl had died in my lap.

With our dane in the house, I fret that something will happen when I am home alone and I won't be able to get him into a car by myself. I have a bloat kit and know how to use it and friends and neighbors who would be here in a second if I needed them, but the added comfort of having a means to end his suffering should the need arise would be tremendous.

So- do I get a gun? Ask my vet for an emergency off-label vial of a strong sedative? I don't know, but thank you for posting this thread and reminding me to think about it again.

eqrider1234
Aug. 5, 2010, 11:38 AM
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/roommates-face-animal-cruelty-charges-for-suffocating-ailing-pet/1112900

This is a timely discussion.

I, for one, find it absolutely appalling that people would choose to end their pet's life like this, particularly when there are no shortage of animal shelters or vets that would be willing to carry out a free "mercy" euthanasia. I know I've done it more than once since moving here in June. These men should be charged with cruelty. There is no reason that poor little dog had to suffocate to death. I don't think anyone here would disagree, either. I'm just saying that this is seen as an inhumane, cruel act.

I understand that not everyone lives within a reasonable distance of a vet; however, I think if that is the case, you should carry a firearm for these kinds of situations. Pre-medicating a pet with ace is not always a reliable means of sedation depending on the animal and its sickness, and ace does not have a lot of pain-killing effects beyond that of sedation. I suppose if you had a very large amount you could try to overdose the pet if there truly was no option.

What a sad thread.

OMG that story is terrible! I hope those men are punished to the fullest extent of the law! It would havfe beeen better to just let the dog die naturally then to suffocate it with a ziplock bag for 30 minutes! :( that makes me so sad and so angry at the same time! People can be so ridiculous sometimes!

sisu27
Aug. 5, 2010, 12:05 PM
Rubyfree....can I ask you to PM me the details of your bloat kit? As a Dobe owner I live in such fear and would love to have one around.

I actually know someone who has used the box attached to the vehicle exhaust to put cats down. I do not know the details but after the skunk story I sure would hope it was a last and desperate resort.

EKLay
Aug. 7, 2010, 05:35 PM
Has anybody ever heard of using the exhaust pipe of the car? I've read about putting the little pet in a ziplock bag, securing it to the exhaust pipe, and letting it run a little while.

Where can I get dry ice?


I just went to King Soopers or a similar grocery store and purchased a 1/4lb chunk. As someone else mentioned, it's not really something you can keep on hand, but I've been fortunate to live a only a couple blocks away from a store, so it's was never a time issue for me.

I don't know if it would be recommended to euth a cat or similarly sized animal with this method, but someone once found a (small-medium size) cat that had been hit by a car on campus and brought him over to us. Poor guy was completely mangled so we carefully put him into the aquarium and helped ease his way out. I have to think that just going to sleep from a CO2 overdose was preferable than dying on his own from those injuries.

I would never use car exhaust to euth, since the exhaust has other unpleasant chemicals in it and can sting to breathe.

Slightly off topic:
Thanks to the other posters who had supportive things to say about rats as pets and good vet stories! I am still surprised by how many people think that just because a pet's purchase price wasn't high it doesn't deserve a dignified, humane end to it's life.

Bluey
Aug. 7, 2010, 05:57 PM
---"I am still surprised by how many people think that just because a pet's purchase price wasn't high it doesn't deserve a dignified, humane end to it's life."---

I don't know about "dignified", that is up for definition and I bet a rat's definition of dignified would not quite match ours.;)
I do agree that all alive should have a decent life, according to what is right for it's species and a humane end to it.:yes:
Nature doesn't provide for it at all, but when we are around, we do try best we can to see to it.:)


Too bad that we don't quite extend that humaneness to human lives and some end of life situations, for what I have seen.:cry:

deltawave
Aug. 7, 2010, 09:02 PM
Too bad that we don't quite extend that humaneness to human lives and some end of life situations

Many of us make that a strenuously defended priority, but it is, as you can imagine, quite the complicated issue. :sigh:

Bluey
Aug. 7, 2010, 09:22 PM
It is a complicated issue.:(
I have seen some people pass on gently and some in a rather inhumane way, for what they had to suffer, even with palliative care, with them asking for a merciful end, please.

One had lung cancer that metastasized to the brain and the last three months were terrible.
The other had colon cancer, went to the liver and on to the bone and for three weeks it was a terrible nightmare and in the hospital.
Now, that was many years ago and I am sure we have come a long way, but jeez, it does scare me what we do to people in the name of being sure all the t's are crossed and i's dotted and afraid to to take charge in such situations.:no:

I am glad that we can make those decisions for the animals under our care, with our veterinarians concurring, of course.

Zu Zu
Aug. 7, 2010, 10:41 PM
It is a complicated issue.:(
I have seen some people pass on gently and some in a rather inhumane way, for what they had to suffer, even with palliative care, with them asking for a merciful end, please.

One had lung cancer that metastasized to the brain and the last three months were terrible.
The other had colon cancer, went to the liver and on to the bone and for three weeks it was a terrible nightmare and in the hospital.
Now, that was many years ago and I am sure we have come a long way, but jeez, it does scare me what we do to people in the name of being sure all the t's are crossed and i's dotted and afraid to to take charge in such situations.:no:

I am glad that we can make those decisions for the animals under our care, with our veterinarians concurring, of course.
Agree ~

MunchkinsMom
Aug. 7, 2010, 11:07 PM
I'm sorry for the loss of your cat. And bless you for posting the question as it may help others in the future that are faced with a similar situation. I know it gave me some food for thought.