Purina Ultium - Anyone feeding it?

[mbamissaz]

I saw this feed mentioned in one of the other threads. I went to check it out and it looks great for keeping weight on hard keepers. Anyone using it currently?

[mbamissaz]

I saw this feed mentioned in one of the other threads. I went to check it out and it looks great for keeping weight on hard keepers. Anyone using it currently?

[inca]

I am feeding it and love it. When I switched, I ended up cutting my regular keepers grain by about 35-40%. My hard keeper was unfortunatley on stall rest and I had to cut her grain to keep her sane. She lost about 50 pounds in that 3 months and we are now working on putting that weight back on. Didn't want to suddenly start throwing a bunch of grain at her so am slowly increasing it. Still want to keep her sane!

[mbamissaz]

Thanks for the reply, Inca. I am thinking about switching my TB over to it. Now I am feeding him Pennfield Senior and adding rice bran...but this looks like an "all-in-one" feed and much more convenient.

[hookedoneventing]

I am using it too, I love it. The research on it is so extensive and it is really geared towards the sport horse.

[Bogie]

I fed it to a TB mare who was a hard keeper with great success and was able to eliminate the beet pulp I was feeding separately. I mixed it 50/50 with Strategy (at the recommendation of a Purina nutritionist).

[bobrummel13]

I Just started feeding Ultium 4 weeks ago. I've been able to cut my horse's feed by 1/2 scoop twice a day and cutting out his oil(1 1/2 cups per day) all together.

He seems not to like the flavor as much as his sweet, so I've gone to reducing Ultium a little more and top dressing with 1/2 scoop sweet.

Apparently, my horse doesn't fit into the "horses don't really care what grain they eat" theory that I got from my Purina rep. I know that some reps will say not to mix feeds because it throws off the nutrition, but I'd rather him eat a little unbalanced than pick at his totally balanced rations http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[inca]

When I first started using it, I thought it smelled strange and was worried about my horses eating it. But, all my horses will eat bute ground up and mixed in their feed so none are that picky. They gobble up their Ultium. But, I'm sure there are picky horses out there that might not like giving up their sweet feed! Mine had been off of sweet feed for a year (and on Horseman's Edge pellets) before I switched to Ultium.

I am really curious to see what difference (if any) it will make when I put my pregnant mare back to work this summer. After she went back to work after having her last foal, she was having these strange episodes similar to mini-tying up - never full blown. And her mother tied up twice so there is history there. Anyway, Ultium is supposed to help prevent such episodes so I am looking forward to putting it to the test and seeing if it helps this mare!

As a side benefit, mine all got super shiny coats when they went on Ultium. They are all chestnut and tend to get dull, dry, almost brittle coats in the summer due to the Texas sun and heat. But, everyone's coat looked great all summer long this past year. (Although we did have a bit cooler than usual summer - no day's over 100 but still plenty of days in the high 90's.)

[hunterD]

I say try it!! I put my TB gelding on it about a year ago and he went from looking like an off the track racehorse to a nice looking show hunter! I love it and it makes his coat awesome!! I don't even have to add anything to make it shiny!! My trainer has even said how nicely he looks, his weight and his coat! I love it and now I'm actually being able to cut him back a little on the quantity of feed that he gets. He is a super hard keeper! I wish I could show you pics of the difference that feed has made!!

[Equibrit]

So - whats in it??

[inca]

Ultium web site (http://www.ultium.com)

It is a beet pulp-based pelleted feed that is also high in fat (12.4% fat.) It does contian rice bran also. All the particulars are on the above web site.

[gabz]

Amazingly, when I got a bag of it, it did not have a traditional feed tag... the ingredients were printed right on the bag... so that tells me they are using the same thing over and over.
from the website ultium.com

Dried Beet Pulp, Wheat Middlings, Stabilized Rice Bran, Ground Soybean Hulls, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Ground Oat Hulls, Ground Corn, Soybean Oil, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Flaxseed, Dried Whey, Calcium Lignin Sulfonate, Cane Molasses, Salt, DL-Methionine, Thiamine, Calcium Carbonate, L-Lysine, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Citric Acid, Iron Oxide, Natural Flavor, DL-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, Sodium Selenite, Choline Chloride, Cyanocobalamin, Nicotinic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, L-Tryptophan, L-Threonine, Vitamin A Acetate, Ferrous Carbonate, Manganous Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Magnesium Oxide, Riboflavin, Cholecalciferol, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate.

Ruminant Meat And Bone Meal Free.
You can go there to get the percentages of protein, fiber, etc.

[middy]

I switched as soon as my feed store got it in. (Purina dealers have to go to a 6 hour class to be authorized to sell this stuff.) My store owner only went to the class because of me.

I love it. I have an old (25 years) Tb mare who is still in very hard work. I have had her for 13 years. She has never looked any heavier than a horse just off the track. Very fit but not a hutertype at all. I have always struggled to keep weight on her. I had tried everything you could possible think of. Last spring she had liver problems and she dropped alot of weight fast I thought I was going to have to put her down. You could see every bone in her body. We finally got that straitened out and I was worring about how I would ever put the weight back on. (at that time she was eating 275lbs of TC Senior a week plus supplements plus ricebran and beatpulp and alfalfa cubes. On top of all that she was getting free choice first cutting orchard grass hay.)

I swithed her to the ULTIUM and not she is FAT!! I don't ever think I have said that about her.This photo was taken in August (http://community.webshots.com/photo/121031594/121031594LPoTkp)and she had only been on it for 3 months.

It has made a huge difference in my mare.

[mbamissaz]

Wow! She looks great, middy! I think I am definitely going to give it a try. Thanks for all of the great feedback!

[Equibrit]

Not quite as good as Triple Crown Complete but more expensive. (no biotin or digestive aides)

Are you getting your moneys worth?

Triple Crown Complete

(Free from Restricted Ruminant Protein Products per Title 21, CFR 589.2000)
Shredded Beet Pulp, Soybean Hulls, Alfalfa Meal, Whole Oats, Barley, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Distillers Dried Grains, Wheat Middlings, Rice Bran, Cane Molasses, Ground Limestone, Dicalcium Phosphate, Monocalcium-Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, Sodium Bicarbonate, Sodium Sesquicarbonate, Magnesium Oxide, Calcium Carbonate, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Manganous Sulfate, Magnesium Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Cobalt Sulfate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Choline Chloride, d-Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Beta Carotene, Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Yeast Culture, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Yeast Fermentation Solubles, Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, D. L. Methionine, L-Lysine, Soybean Oil, (Propionic Acid, Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate (Preservatives)), Kelp Meal, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Ground Flax Seed, Lecithin, Fenugreek Seed, Anethole.



Guaranteed Analysis ULTIUM

Crude Protein [min]............................. 11.7%
Crude Fat [min]............................. 12.4%
Crude Fiber [max]............................ 18.5%
Calcium [Ca] [min]............................. 0.90%
Calcium [Ca] [max]............................. 1.20%
Phosphorus [P] [min]............................. 0.500%
Copper [Cu] [min]............................. 65.00 ppm
Selenium [Se] [min]............................. 0.500 ppm
Selenium [Se] [max]............................. 0.600 ppm
Zinc [Zn] [min]............................. 240 ppm
Vitamin A [min]............................. 5000.00 iu/lb


Guaranteed Analysis Triple Crown Complete.

Crude Protein (min.) 11.00%
Lysine (min.) 0.60%
Methionine & Cystine (min.) 0.25%
Threonine (min.) 0.35%
Crude Fat (min.) 10.00%
Crude Fiber (max.) 15.00%
Calcium (min.) 0.75%
Calcium (max.) 1.25%
Phosphorus (min.) 0.50%
Magnesium (min.) 0.25%
Iron (min.) 175.0 ppm
Potassium (min.) 1.00%
Selenium (min.) 0.30 ppm
Zinc (min.) 100.00 ppm
Manganese (min.) 90.00 ppm
Copper (min.) 35.00 ppm
Vitamin A (min.) 3,500 IU/lb
Vitamin D (min.) 500 IU/lb
Vitamin E (min.) 110 IU/lb
Vitamin C (min.) 27 mg/lb
Biotin (min.) 0.20 mg/lb
Lactobacillus Acidophilus (min.) 825,000 CFU/gm
Saccharomyces Cervisiae (min.) 1,650,000 CFU/gm
Cellulase (min.) 70.0 CMC–ase units/lb.
Protease (min.) 0.3 Northrup Units/lb.

[middy]

mbamissaz - Thank you very much for the compliment (not many people believe that she is actually 24 in that picture). She does look great!! I also have a 9 year olf TB that was 700lbs underweight when I got him and he looks good now too.

Equibrit - I will never knock TC because I used it for years, but I think this feed is digested better than the complete and the senior. I am feeding much less of this and both my guys look the best that they ever have.

[PiedPiper]

For me personally, comparing the two, I would like the Ultium better since molasses is farther down the ingredient list. Have a cribber that is very sensitive to sugar.

Hmm, mbamissaz, I may have to give it a whirl in a few months!

[Tiramit]

How does Ultium combine with hotter horses?

[Xctrygirl]

Hows this for comparisons...

My 17 hand large OTTB was put on this after being on 10 qts a day of local cheap 12% sweet and went down to 4 qts a day in no time.

Additionally Lad, my wanna be steeplechaser is on a 50-50 mix of 8 qts a day of Omolene 200 and Ultium. He loves it. I love it.

(Plus Charlie took almost all the pics on the bag, so we love the income!)

~Emily

[middy]

both of my guys are considered hot horses. This feed doesn't have the sugars that makes them hot. It is very low in molasses and doesn't have the corn. both of my guys have calmed considerable since being on it.

[katejn]

Hi all, I have been feeding ultium for about 4 months. We switched from horseman's edge, alf. pellets and oil to this feed and it is SO MUCH EASIER! I have a 17 yr old TB hard keeper, 2 fat ponies, middle aged appendix avg. guy, TB 4 yr old (hot) and 17.3 5yr WB mare. All are looking fabulous and the older tb Gelding who is tough to keep weight on looks the best he has in years. Even the vet could not believe it when we pulled off his rugs. I highly recommend it!

[jilltx]

I switched to the Ultium in November of last year. I am not a huge fan of pellets, but this feed seems to be doing it's job. We have one other horse in our barn (out of 20+ horses) that is getting the Ultium, and my barn owner says that these two horses have the best coats in the barn. They look amazing, even in winter.

My mare is not a hard keeper, but the other mare that is also on Ultium is. She is MUCH more quiet since being switched over in November as well.

[ChesterCounty]

Thankyou MBAMISSAZ for starting this thread. I am reading this thread with great interest as Ultium was one of the feeds recommended to me by my Vet for my horse that chronically ties up.

Anyone using it specifically for that reason? Re-leve is $19 a bag and a pain in the butt for me to get as the only dealer near me that carries it is an hour away.

Thanks.

[Flash44]

This time last year, I had my horse on 10 lbs Horsemans Edge Hi Fat and he looked crappy. Lost condition through the topline over the winter and poor coat. He is now on 8 lbs of Ultium and is in good weight (for him). Looks much mush better this winter than he did last winter. He's a hard keeper and very very finicky, he would look even better but he doesn't always eat what I give him.

I have a mare in regular work who is in great condition on 6ish lbs a day of Ultium.

This time last year, I was unhappy with my horse's weight. Now I'm thinking as soon as the grass comes in, I will be able to cut back on the grain even more.

[OldLadyOnATB]

I have been using Ultium on JG for about 6-8 months now. He is a VERY hard keeper. He stays thin all the time. But, he is much better on the Ultium than anything else I have tried.

I am now beginning to feed Ultium to my new rescue. He is doing great.

I think that Ultium is the near perfect feed for TB's. There is not enough sugar in it to make them hot....and it is high in fat and has lots of beet pulp. Great for keeping weight on!

Elizabeth

[baileygreyhorse]

I started feeding it in Sept and I really like it. I have the two fatties on it. Iago gets about 1 pound and Bailey gets 1.5 pounds. That is about the same amount that I fed of Omelene, but I think they look better with the Ultium.

[Sir's_Mom]

I have a question...anyone use this feed on a horse that recently (about 5 months back) had colic surgery? He is now back to work, but I fear he may have gotten an ulcer (he was refulxing something aweful in hospital) and was told he should be on a SR feed. But the SR feed that the barn currently feeds has a lot of mollasses, and a bit too much protein for my taste. So was looking at Legends 12% pellet Maturity and adding some stabilized rice bran and flax. But maybe Ultium would be better, and easier for the barn owner who wouldn't have to add the rice bran and flax.

Also, since the surgery, he has been quite hot and rude (which I attribute to the ulcer, but would like a feed that would address both the hot and would not agrivate the ulcer.) If it is an ulcer, I'm also thinking that maybe beet pulp with a SMALL quantity of grain anyway.

Thoughts?

[mbamissaz]

I'm going out tomorrow to buy a bag. I'm almost giddy about it http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[olderandwiser]

I just started feeding it (still mixing). The analysis seems to be just what I've been looking for.

[TKR]

I've been using it since mid-October for a 25 year old TB stallion who had experienced a fractured jaw and had EPM several years ago. He had lost so much weight due to the jaw and I had tried just about everything with no real improvement. The Ultium was a blessing -- I could see a significant weight gain in weeks. He's still doing great -- get some! I highly recommend it.
PSG

[Cashela]

I've been feeding it since Sept, I think. I like it. I have my two young girls on it and they literally get a handful twice a day with a handful of BOSS and their coats are awesome. They are happy and healthy. My older girl gets it too. She unfortunately just isn't gaining the weight that she needs to gain, but I do believe the Ultium has stopped her from losing any more weight. (vets have been out)

[seal]

I've been feeding Ultium since it became available in November. After only 3 weeks, my 3 year old gelding put on a significant amount of muscle on his topline and all over his body. He is MUCH rounder all over--shoulders, neck, back, butt, etc.

What makes his sudden transformation all the more remarkable, is the fact he has been on *vacation* since October, so the added muscle is NOT from work.

I had been feeding him 4 lbs. TC Senior, 1 lb rice bran pellets and 1 lb alfafa pellets. Now, I only feed him 4 lbs of Ultium and 1 lb pound of alfalfa pellets, which means I am actually saving money! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif He also looks the best he has ever looked. I would highly recommend it for hard keepers.

[Hannahsmom]

I've had my hard keeper (had to be on oats because he was an ADD OTTB) on it for several months now. He's on 2/3's his normal winter grain and keeping the weight on and is keeping his sanity. That plus good hay. So far I'm very happy.

[Cherry]

Middy, are you saying Ultium doesn't have any corn in it, or not as much as regular horsefeed? I ask this because in the "Product Specs" for Ultium it does have "ground corn" listed seventh in the list of ingredients..... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

[jonquilTN]

A hard keeper, older TB at my barn was starting to look a bit ribby and with loss of topline and dull coat, his owners decided to bring an equine nutritionist out to see him. He suggested Ultium and in ONE MONTH the horse looks 100% different! He is gaining steadily, shine is coming up in his coat and he just looks more "filled out" again. ONE MONTH! He's not a great hay eater despite all the good stuff he is given, so this feed is REALLY making a difference for him.
My 2 are total air ferns (2 handfuls of oats plus hay and good pasture) so I am not using Ultium BUT should I *happen* http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif to come across an OTT TB, I will be SURE to use it http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif
-A

[VirginiaBred]

Is this only available in a pellet form?

[middy]

Cherry- Yes It soes have some corn but it is no where as much as in the regular "Sweet Feeds" that tend to make our TB's hot. I have found that both my guys are much quieter since I switched.

[HollBear]

So, for those feeding their competition horses Ultium, do you still feed oil? I am in the process of switching (gradually) and I still feed 1 cup of oil am and pm. I also saw that most of you are still feeding pelleted alfalfa too?

This might be a stupid question... alfalfa pellets are different from alfalfa cubes????

Also, FYI, Ultium came highly recommended from my vet community.

[middy]

I still feed oil to my gelding but that is because he has Shivers. My mare is nolonger on oil and her coat looks wonderful.

[clint]

What about this feed for a two year old? I have a gelding that is very hard to keep weight on. He isn't particularly interested in eating, and this winter he has really dropped weight. I have him on Strategy and have tried oil to increase the fat but he doesn't really care much for that.

[milestogo]

Sirs_Mom, I have been treating my horse for several months with gastroguard to heal her ulcers. She has been a picky eater the whole time. I have tried EVERY feed in our feed room just trying to find something she will eat. I tried adding Ultium to her Equine Senior and have now gone to straight Ultium. I actually cut her ration back yesterday because I feel like she has finally gotten back to a good weight. You could count her ribs during the worst part of her eating strike. She also gets free choice One and Only (an extruded feed) along with her hay. It is so nice to have her look forward to meal times and have her actually eat her food.

[gabz]

Is anyone finding large masses of molasses in their Ultium?

My first bag had "many" (more than 6) golf-ball sized and smaller lumps of something ... it was grainy, dark brown, but not as "black" as lumps of molasses I've seen in sweet feed mixtures.

Then, the bag I picked up yesterday had compacted pellets - the mass was as big as 2 bowling balls - PLUS - a lump of "molasses" (grainy, dark brown, and sticky) larger than a grapefruit.. more like 1.5 grapefruits, plus a bunch of smaller lumps.

I'm going to take it back and I am also going to contact Purina. The next nearest mills that sell it are more than an hour away.

Reminds me of how some folks don't like Strategy because they find corn in it. I don't have that problem, but I'm worried about how much "cane molasses" is supposed to be in the Ultium. At (price went up from $13) $14.50 per 50 pounds ... I'm wondering if I should just buy 100 pounds of shredded beet pulp instead.

[ChesterCounty]

Yikes, I am finding the same molasses lumps in the 4 bags of Ultium I bought last weekend. No compacted pellets though.

I guess I can see why some people just mix their own feed.

I think I am just going to go with it still and throw out the lumps.

[inca]

I have found some lumps but none that big. And not in every bag. I just throw out the lumps (none bigger than golf ball size) and go on.

[olderandwiser]

I've found some golf ball size lumps too, but my horse looks so much better in such a short time that I'm not going to worry about it. Of course if they get as bad as what Gabz found, I may be a little worried that the mix wouldnt be correct.

Milestogo, what is One and Only and who makes it? I think my horse would benefit from something that could be free fed.

[gabz]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I may be a little worried that the mix wouldnt be correct.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's what I'm worried about - with MANY large sugar plants in this area, beet pulp is easily available ... I'm worried about too high a percentage of cane molasses. The large "mass" of pellets I found reminded me of Equine Senior during the winter. I was chipping away at the lump with a small coffee can and couldn't get it to easily break up!

The "molasses" lumps have the look and texture of the loose minerals I buy - but stuck together. Not as hard as a mineral block though.

[headsup]

I've been very happy using the Ultium at the suggestion of my Purina rep for one specific mare but then tried it on one that is ulcer prone and then switched my home barn to it...all look lovely! My ulcer prone mare tends to be a worrier and a bit anxious and she's fat as a tick and eats it all.

[Flash44]

gabz, that is a milling problem, I occasionally find golf balls (not really) in my bags as well. Maybe one out of every 10 bags. I just squeeze them with my hand and they disintergrate.

[Flash44]

I add a little extra oil to my Ultium, about 6-8 liquid oz a day for the TBs and 4 for the pony.

[glimmerling]

Does anyone with the knowhow care to contrast Ultium with Nutrena XTN?
I've been feeding the Nutrena since last fall and it's had great results on my hard keeper TB. He's not lost any weight this winter and his whole self is just healthier. My filly only gets a 1/2 scoop because she was getting fat on a full scoop.
Thanks in advance!

[jilltx]

I'll post the labels and info in hopes that one of our resident nutrition gurus will chime in. I know that *personally* I prefer the Nutrena FARR XTN, but it is not available in my area, so I use the Ultium. I think the Nutrena feeds are more consistant and they are always happy to answer questions, compared to Purina, who tend to be very evasive (this is MY opinion, folks! Take it for what it's worth).

Here is the comparison, label to label:
Purina Ultium
Crude Protein [min]............................. 11.7%
Crude Fat [min]............................. 12.4%
Crude Fiber [max]............................ 18.5%
Calcium [Ca] [min]............................. 0.90%
Calcium [Ca] [max]............................. 1.20%
Phosphorus [P] [min]............................. 0.500%
Copper [Cu] [min]............................. 65.00 ppm
Selenium [Se] [min]............................. 0.500 ppm
Selenium [Se] [max]............................. 0.600 ppm
Zinc [Zn] [min]............................. 240 ppm
Vitamin A [min]............................. 5000.00 iu/lb
Dried Beet Pulp, Wheat Middlings, Stabilized Rice Bran, Ground Soybean Hulls, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Ground Oat Hulls, Ground Corn, Soybean Oil, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Flaxseed, Dried Whey, Calcium Lignin Sulfonate, Cane Molasses, Salt, DL-Methionine, Thiamine, Calcium Carbonate, L-Lysine, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Citric Acid, Iron Oxide, Natural Flavor, DL-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, Sodium Selenite, Choline Chloride, Cyanocobalamin, Nicotinic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, L-Tryptophan, L-Threonine, Vitamin A Acetate, Ferrous Carbonate, Manganous Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Magnesium Oxide, Riboflavin, Cholecalciferol, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate.

Nutrena FARR XTN:
Guaranteed Analysis (min. amounts except where noted)
Crude Protein 12.0%
Lysine 0.80%
Methionine 0.37%
Crude Fat 12.0%
Crude Fiber max. 10.0%
Calcium min. 0.75%-max. 1.05%
Phosphorus 0.50%
Copper 55 ppm
Zinc 220 ppm
Selenium 0.6 ppm
Vitamin A 4,000 IU/lb
Vitamin D3 350 IU/lb
Vitamin E 120 IU/lb
Biotin 1.0 mg/lb

Features
High nutrient density to support high performance and superior endurance.
An Ideal combination of fat and fiber from vegetable oils, beet pulp and highly digestible steam-flaked oats and barley to support optimum growth and performance.
High-fat rice bran and flaxseed for an improved blend of Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids.
Added lysolecithins for enhanced fat digestion and for helping to improve the absorption of fat-soluble nutrients.
Trace minerals from organic complex sources for increased utilization and bioavailability.
Yeast and probiotics to help increase fiber utilization.
Added lysine for enhanced amino acid performance.

I do not have the actual ingredients list for the FARR XTN. Perhaps someone can post it??

One thing that I know I like about the FARR XTN (and all Nutrena feeds) is that they all have Lysine and Methionine added, and XTN also has Vitamins E and Biotin and well as yeast and probiotics.

Oh Tannenwald, where are you???? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[race_run_jump]

OK - while we're on ingredients - a friend who works for a feed company just told me that wheat middlings are the next thing to the devil - and actually cause a horse to lose condition. Never heard that - any ideas? Of course, when I looked at the labels - half of my feed room seems to have wheat middlings in them. What on earth is a middling, anyway??

[jilltx]

Well...I found the following. not sure where they got their information, but it's one of the ONLY definitions I could find (related to horse feed).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Wheat - majority is grown for human consumption, which produces wheat

by-products that can be used as livestock feed; or can be grown entirely as

a livestock feed crop.



Divided into hard and soft varieties, within hard/soft are winter and

spring. Hard wheats are higher in protein (13-16%) and gluten, so

preferable for bread making. Soft wheats are between 8-11% .



AA distribution better than for corn, but still deficient. Very palatable

to most species, very high in energy value (3rd highest behind corn and

milo), but is grain mostly likely to cause acidosis in the rumen or cecum.



Wheat produces several by-products:

Wheat bran - outer covering of the wheat kernel. 19% of the total protein

and the majority of the vitamins are contained in the bran

Wheat middlings (mids), mill run, shorts and red dog are essentially all the

same thing except with decreasing fiber content - contains bran, germ,

flour, tailings, etc.

Wheat germ - 28% protein, classified as a protein supplement

Wheat mid, mill run etc are most commonly fed to swine, poultry and dairy

cattle.



Wheat bran is commonly fed to horses because believed to havel axative

qualities, but does not. Bran was fed as 50% of total ration, did not

increase fecal water content. Also extremely high in P (1.27%).

Horse owners don't see it as a grain because its fluffy, but has higher

energy content than whole oats.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is the link to the website. It had some other interesting info about feedstuffs and cereal grains.

Energy feeds, Grains, and Liquid Supplements. (http://www.equine-information.com/enegeryfeed.html)

[amdfarm]

I've been waiting a year for our area to finally get this product and it's finally happening. It will come in on Thursday and I can't wait to try it.

What's interesting is that this feed is formulated, much like the XTN, for horses in moderate to heavy work yet it seems most of the poster's are using it on hard to keep or rehab horses, which is also how I plan to use it. OTTB mare needing to get fit and gain more weight, broodmares and my breeding/working stallion.

I asked my feed guy about feeding it to youngsters and that was one thing he didn't think to ask. I'm basically feeding all of my horses (ones that get grain/pellets and ration balancer w/ added oil) the same mix, but in different amounts.

That said, the XTN tells you how to feed to everything from weanlings to non-breeding stallions, so I guess I'm not seeing a problem using it like I plan to.

I will probably continue the ration balancer, as well.

I'm curious how much those are feeding to the harder keeping TB's? For moderate work and 1000lbs, they say to feed 6.8lbs. I was thinking of more like 3-4lbs, especially for one not in work yet.

L.

[clint]

Has anyone feeding it found it unpalatable? I finally got a bag for my two year old, and he took one bite and walked away. A three year old just starting work reacted the same way. They have been on Strategy; maybe they can't change. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[amdfarm]

Bummer Clint! I sure hope mine don't do the same. I plan on switching gradually so it's not such a shock. I figured w/ a little bit of molasses in their, everyone would love it. Guess not and I'll find out Thursday. Good luck!

L.

[inca]

You should definitely switch gradually over 10-14 days. Start by adding a cup of Ultium (or whatever new food you are switching to) to what they are eating and slowly increase the Ultium and decrease the old type of food.

You should never just switch a horse's feed "cold turkey" all at once.

[ASB Stars]

I have been feeding it to two of mine- everyone else eats Strategy, and they all get beet pulp without molasses, as well. I think my three year old looks wonderful, but I can't tell you he looks any better than the others, for sure. I put him on it, and he loves it, so he is still getting it. The stuff is like gold, though. I pay $14.99 a bag, compared to $9.50 for the Strategy, and I am not sure that I feed him any less than I would with the Strategy.

[indyarab]

I tried the Ultium last fall for one of my geldings. Chose to try it as he's hypoglycemic and we try to stay away from corn heavy products. He wasn't at all keen on the taste of it and I couldn't see any major difference. I put him back on the Stategy he really loves and he's doing fine.

However, I do have a young stallion who loses weight in a heartbeat, so may try the Ultium for him.

[amdfarm]

Well I finally got my bag and started gradually switching a half dozen horses over to it. None of them turned their noses up at it, course there wasn't much of it compaired to the usual mix. I'm paying $15.95/bag + tax.

I don't have a scale. Can someone tell me how many pounds are in a 2qt scoop? I don't want to half to drag it to the grocery store or feed store to put it on the scale if I don't have to.

L.

[Flash44]

I think it's about 4 pounds a scoop, but don't take my thoughts as gospel.

[Sarah Ralston]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by amdfarm:
I don't have a scale. Can someone tell me how many pounds are in a 2qt scoop? I don't want to half to drag it to the grocery store or feed store to put it on the scale if I don't have to.
L. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you have a bathroom scale? cart that out to the barn, weigh a bucket, then add a scoop of the feed! Best if you add 4 scoops and take the average....

[amdfarm]

Thanks and nope, don't have a bathroom scale or I would have done that. I use to have a fish/game scale, but I can't find it.

[magic mushroom]

re: ingrediants, a feed store owner just told me that soybean hulls are filler.. know anything about this?

[LisaX4156]

1 quart is approx. 1 lb of grain, give or take a few ounces..

Lisa

[Flash44]

I've called Purina a couple times and found them to be very helpful. Spoke to Karen Davison twice, she was very friendly and willing to answer questions.

She told me that the bag only has instructions for feeding horses in work because it was formulated for horses in work, and was not tested on babies, broodmares, etc.

[ComingAttraction]

I was wondering how the Ultium compared to Pennfields fibergized? I recently switched to PF for a horse that is a hard keeper and prone to colic. I am still in the process of switching so have nothing to compare it to yet.

[gabz]

The ultium may be a tiny bit heavier / denser than Strategy. But I do know that 1 measuring cup of Strategy is 1/4 pound.

I'll try to remember to weigh a measure tonight and post here tomorrow.

[gabz]

So far as the lumps. I spoke with "Dawn" at Purina customer service.

She did tell me that the large lumps of pellets is usually caused by wrapping the bags with plastic (that shrink / saran wrap stuff that binds the bags to a pallet) too soon after bagging it will cause the molasses, which is warm, to stick together more.

So far as the lumps ... she asked me to break it apart to see if perhaps there was a foreign item (I was almost afraid!!) at the center that perhaps kept rolling (like a snowball we decided). But the largest lump was the same matter all the way through. Most likely the molasses with the minerals and "middlings" clinging to it.

I was offered several options. A coupon for a new bag, simply return it for exchange for another item, exchange for another bag of Ultium. Since the lumps were nothing harmful and I was having my truck serviced (3 days at the shop while I scooted around in a rental car)... I did not take any action. I'm just mixing it with the strategy. I did record the lot number/mfg date on the bottom of the bags.
we'll see how many more times this happens.

[Skip's Rider]

Just weighed the Ultium this morning - 2 cups weighs 297.72 grams. That is about 1.3 lbs per quart. The other grain we use, a custom mixed pellet similar to Strategy weighs about 1 lb per quart.

[gabz]

I measured and weighed Ultium this morning too.

3 level measuring cups equals 1 pound for anyone who needs that info.

I try to keep various sized tin cans around... I test different weights and measurements and find the one that works for the feed. Then I use a permanent marker on the can to label it. The tin cans seem to hold up much better than plastic tubs and I don't worry about pieces of plastic breaking off.

The empty pumpkin cans work well for some feeds; the short-squatty canned corn or canned beets work well too. They are pretty easy to grab with gloves on and scoop.

[Grasshopper]

Has anyone switched to Ultium from beet pulp and/or ration balancer?

(Sorry this is so long...)

My mare, for the past year and a half, has been getting beet pulp, ration balancer, and oil in varying amounts depending on her work. I was doing her feeding myself so could adjust her diet as needed and I didn't mind the extra time and effort. For the past few months, however, she has been in harder work at a full care barn. She is strong, healthy, and getting dapples on a shiny coat. But, she is starting to look a little more lean than I would like. It is not practical to ask the barn where she is to increase her oil to get the weight back on. I have thought about adding alfalfa cubes/pellets, but that makes it even more complicated for the poor barn workers. So, I am thinking about Ultium or the Farr XTN, depending on what is most available.

My hesitation is because I don't think she will need more than a few pounds of it, and I want to make sure she is getting enough vits/mins, etc. "Normal" sweet feed is NOT an option for her (the sugar makes her high and she doesn't keep condition on it...).

Any thoughts?

Basically, now that someone else is doing her feeding, I would like to simplify a bit and add a few more calories while keeping the high proportion of beet pulp and fat, which seems to work in terms of energy levels.

Thanks for your thoughts, I hope I'm not hijacking!

[Soiree]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">breaking off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
My rising 4yr old TB does great on it. He is still growing AND in work, so the dense calories are very helpful for keeping him well conditioned.

I have been thinking of adding some to the diet of my '04 hanoverian filly....Has anyone tried it on a yearling?

[amdfarm]

Thanks to all that measured it, I appreciate it. I started w/ a little less than half a 2qt scoop mixed w/ the regular stuff and am up to a half and backing off the other (started feeding it Friday.) In 10-14 days I should be completely off my homemade mix. All of the horses still seem to love it.

Grasshopper... My homemade mix is/was one part oats/cracked corn, one part beet pulp, and the remainder ration balancer (Born To Win) and oil.

Ultium is not as complete as the XTN and Purina said it was okay to continue w/ the ration balancer, so I have continued w/ the same amount as usual. I'm no longer adding oil, but will see what happens once the ones that do work are back in it. If they need a little extra boost, I'll go back to the Health E Oil I was feeding prior to winter instead of the regular veggie oil.

I think the Ultium w/ the ration balancer would work nicely for your mare and you/they'd be feeding less of it.

Soiree... I'm feeding it to six horses that are 5yo and younger, two are yearlings. And I have a nine day old filly that's starting creeping w/ her dam.

Even though I'm not up to the full amount per horse yet, I'm noticing that they're already eating less hay. Same thing I noticed when I started feeding beet pulp.

L.

[Grasshopper]

amdfarm-thanks, maybe I'll try that! Looks like I'm going to be figuring out vit/min balances again...sigh. Oh, well, what on earth would I obsess about without my horse?? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[LisaX4156]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by amdfarm:
Ultium is not as complete as the XTN and Purina . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know.. The only thing I don't like about Ultium is that it doesn't have biotin, methionine or lysine added, like XTN does. WHY doesn't Purina add that? Its stupid not to. I mean, competition horses need it.

I'd be feeding XTN right now but Utah doesn't do good on it like he does the Ultium.

Lisa

[amdfarm]

You're welcome Grasshoppper! Good luck. I think I obsess over what my horses are eating more than what I eat. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LisaX4156... From what little research I did on biotin, lysine and methionine, it's not a necessity like other vitamins and minerals and is geared more towards healthy feet and I went years w/out supplementing lysine and methionine (I fed straight biotin during show season).

Here's what I found.

Vitamins. The B-vitamin biotin has been scientifically shown to help promote fast, strong hoof growth. Recommended is a daily dose of 15 milligrams for an average 1,000-pound horse, but smaller doses can also be effective. Some supplements contain other vitamins as well, including vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) and vitamin C (ascorbic acid).

Protein. The amino acids (building blocks of proteins) methionine and lysine are both believed to increase biotin's effectiveness. (You'll also see these listed as dl-Methionine and l-Lysine.) You may also find other amino acids in hoof supplements.

Minerals. A variety of trace minerals may promote hoof health, including zinc/zinc sulfate, copper, and manganese.

I think if all the basics are covered, and your horses have good feet, you should be set.

L.

[Flash44]

I'm looking at the list of ingredients in Ultium and it DOES HAVE lysine and methionine added.

[LisaX4156]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flash44:
I'm looking at the list of ingredients in Ultium and it DOES HAVE lysine and methionine added. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

REALLY?? Its not on the Guaranteed Analysis list with the protein, fat, ect. Nutrena lists theirs on their tag (not the ingredients list). Nutrena adds 1mg of biotin Per pound!! Thats alot.

It would be nice if Purina did the same to their feeds.

Lisa

[amdfarm]

You're right Flash. It's listed in the ingredients, but not in the analysis. It doesn't list biotin in either one.

LisaX... remember though... 1mg/lb based on the amount fed listed on the bag.

What I found unusual is that Vit E and Selenium are usually listed together, but Ultium doesn't have E at all, nor does it have D3, XTN does. So aside from the biotin, E and D3, they are very similar. Ultium is much higher in fiber... 18% vs 10%. Ultium has more copper and zinc and is a tad higher in fat.

For the money, I think Ultium is still a well balanced feed.

L.

[seal]

I got a pamphlet from the feed store on Ultium, and it lists that there is a minimum of 150 IU of vitamin E per pound.

[amdfarm]

Why isn't it listed anywhere else, like on the bag? Does is say anything about B vitamins or other vitamins it doesn't list in the ingredients or analysis? XTN lists 120 for E.

[Holsteiner]

I know the Vitamin E is listed on the tag on the bag. We have a couple horses in our barn who have tested as Vitamine E deficient, and before starting to supplement extra Vitamin E I had looked on the tag for the information. Also remember seeing the Selenium on there.

[gabz]

the vitamin E is listed as
DL-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate I believe... provided as a preservative - probably the same with the XTN ...

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong ...

Also, on the first page of this thread, I listed the ingredients for Ultium and Equibrit listed the ingredients for Triple Crown Complete, along with the guarenteed analysis of each product....

[amdfarm]

I guess I need to rip off the tag and look again. I completely missed it. Now I'm wondering if I do need the ration balancer after all. I never would have thought DL-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate to be Vit E.

Jilltx posted ingredients/analysis of Ultium and analysis of XTN on page 3, but no ingredients list for XTN was ever found I don't think.

L.

[Drifter]

I put my 17 y.o. ex-show hunter on it back when it first came out in our local feed store. It seemed to have what I was looking for rather than adding supplements. He is still in moderate work and looks fantastic. Coat has been great. Most would never guess he is 17.
Very happy with the feed. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[seal]

Every bag of Ultium I have bought has all the ingredients right there on the bag. There is no tag. Like I said, I picked up an Ultium pamphlet at the feed store when it came out, and it listed vitamin E at 150 IU per pound. You could also check the website: www.ultium.com (http://www.ultium.com)

It is a nicely fortified feed so I don't think you will need a ration balancer. I also feed Glanzen and Source and my gelding has never looked better. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[Equibrit]

Ultium is not quite as good as Triple Crown Complete but more expensive. (no biotin or digestive aides)


Ultium INGREDIENTS:
Dried Beet Pulp, Wheat Middlings, Stabilized Rice Bran, Ground Soybean Hulls, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Ground Oat Hulls, Ground Corn, Soybean Oil, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Flaxseed, Dried Whey, Calcium Lignin Sulfonate, Cane Molasses, Salt, DL-Methionine, Thiamine, Calcium Carbonate, L-Lysine, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Citric Acid, Iron Oxide, Natural Flavor, DL-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, Sodium Selenite, Choline Chloride, Cyanocobalamin, Nicotinic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, L-Tryptophan, L-Threonine, Vitamin A Acetate, Ferrous Carbonate, Manganous Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Magnesium Oxide, Riboflavin, Cholecalciferol, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate.

Triple Crown Complete INGREDIENTS

(Free from Restricted Ruminant Protein Products per Title 21, CFR 589.2000)
Shredded Beet Pulp, Soybean Hulls, Alfalfa Meal, Whole Oats, Barley, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Distillers Dried Grains, Wheat Middlings, Rice Bran, Cane Molasses, Ground Limestone, Dicalcium Phosphate, Monocalcium-Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, Sodium Bicarbonate, Sodium Sesquicarbonate, Magnesium Oxide, Calcium Carbonate, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Manganous Sulfate, Magnesium Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Cobalt Sulfate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Choline Chloride, d-Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Beta Carotene, Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Yeast Culture, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Yeast Fermentation Solubles, Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, D. L. Methionine, L-Lysine, Soybean Oil, (Propionic Acid, Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate (Preservatives)), Kelp Meal, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Ground Flax Seed, Lecithin, Fenugreek Seed, Anethole.



Guaranteed Analysis ULTIUM

Crude Protein [min]............................. 11.7%
Crude Fat [min]............................. 12.4%
Crude Fiber [max]............................ 18.5%
Calcium [Ca] [min]............................. 0.90%
Calcium [Ca] [max]............................. 1.20%
Phosphorus [P] [min]............................. 0.500%
Copper [Cu] [min]............................. 65.00 ppm
Selenium [Se] [min]............................. 0.500 ppm
Selenium [Se] [max]............................. 0.600 ppm
Zinc [Zn] [min]............................. 240 ppm
Vitamin A [min]............................. 5000.00 iu/lb


Guaranteed Analysis Triple Crown Complete.

Crude Protein (min.) 11.00%
Lysine (min.) 0.60%
Methionine & Cystine (min.) 0.25%
Threonine (min.) 0.35%
Crude Fat (min.) 10.00%
Crude Fiber (max.) 15.00%
Calcium (min.) 0.75%
Calcium (max.) 1.25%
Phosphorus (min.) 0.50%
Magnesium (min.) 0.25%
Iron (min.) 175.0 ppm
Potassium (min.) 1.00%
Selenium (min.) 0.30 ppm
Zinc (min.) 100.00 ppm
Manganese (min.) 90.00 ppm
Copper (min.) 35.00 ppm
Vitamin A (min.) 3,500 IU/lb
Vitamin D (min.) 500 IU/lb
Vitamin E (min.) 110 IU/lb
Vitamin C (min.) 27 mg/lb
Biotin (min.) 0.20 mg/lb
Lactobacillus Acidophilus (min.) 825,000 CFU/gm
Saccharomyces Cervisiae (min.) 1,650,000 CFU/gm
Cellulase (min.) 70.0 CMC–ase units/lb.
Protease (min.) 0.3 Northrup Units/lb.

[MayS]

My riding horse is a full draft. I have him on Ultium because he's a draft, he's underweight, and many in the draft community recomend Ultium.

There is a big following in the draft-horse community to give high-fat, low-sugar diets. Some believe there is a disease in drafts called EPSM (details on this are at DraftResource.com (http://www.draftresource.com/)). It has something to do with some drafts not being able to break down simple sugars right. I'm not a vet to confirm or deny this, but my horse came to me very much underweight, so I wanted higherfat anyway to help him catch up.

He's been on it almost a month now. He loves eating it. It's too soon to tell yet if Ultium is worth the really high cost.

[amdfarm]

Okay, I read the bag label and it lists Vitamin E at the very end on the analysis, but it's not mentioned on the analysis on their site.

And I found the pamphlet. It mentions B vitamins, iron, copper and magnesium, but magnesium isn't on the analysis either, unless I missed that on the bag, too.

My feed store doesn't carry Nutrena horse feed or Triple Crown Complete. It took them a year of begging to finally get them to take the course so they could offer the Ultium.

From the analysis of Triple Crown Complete vs the Ultium. Ultium is higher if protein, fat, fiber and has more IU/lb of the vitamins listed and it's also higher in copper and zinc, and is much higher compared to XTN. 240 to 100 for zinc.

I may continue the ration balancer for the youngsters and broodmares and see how that goes.

Ultium is $15.95/bag and I decided to try it out on 7 more horses than I intended so even gradually switching over, one bag doesn't last long. Born to Win is $13.50/bag and I'm feed the 1-3/pounds/horse as directed on the bag, which is more for babies and less for mature horses.

Welcome to COTH MayS. I breed percherons and percheron crosses for sport and pleasure. They are the main reason I'd been wanting this food and I was sick of mixing my own. Having everything in one bag is going to be wonderful once I've completely switched them over.

I had to chuckle at the weights on the bag though. The feeding chart stops at 1500lbs. My percherons start at 1600lbs and go up, except for the 2yo. There's no way I could feed them 10-15lbs based on 1500lbs and not have them blow up! I'm aiming towards 3-4lbs/horse depending on age and work and will go from there.

I asked this before a few pages ago and didn't get much of a response, so I'll ask again. How much are you feeding per horse/day? Breed, size, age, work schedule if mature enough? I have light horses, too. Heaviest being 1300lbs, the rest average about 1000lbs give or take, some young, some mature but young.

Thanks for everyone's insight on this.

L.

[lynnridge]

I too recently switched over to Ultium. I have been very pleased with it. Especially for my very hard to keep 27 y.o. TB mare - she has never looked better.

I also have an easy keeper that I ride regularly. I was worried that I could not feed her enough to meet the daily requirements, but the Purina rep. that I spoke with said as long as you can feed 4lbs. daily that would be fine. So far, so good.

I feed it to all my horses ages 3-27, 4lbs daily. They all look great.

Good luck.

[middy]

MayS- My TB gelding has shivers and is on the EPSM diet to control that. My vet sugetsed me using Ultium to get some extra weight on him (he was about 700lbs underweight when I got him).

Amdfarm- now that my guys are at a good weight my TB gelding who is about 1500lbs only gets about 4lbs a day and he is in heavy work. He foxhunts about 3 days a week and will event all summer. My mare gets even less about 3lbs a day and she is in moderate work and very old. She is eating less than she has in all teh 12 years I have had her and looks the best.

[LisaX4156]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by amdfarm:
Okay, I read the bag label and it lists Vitamin E at the very end on the analysis, but it's not mentioned on the analysis on their site.

And I found the pamphlet. It mentions B vitamins, iron, copper and magnesium, but magnesium isn't on the analysis either, unless I missed that on the bag, too.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See.. why isn't Purina putting that stuff on their feed labels? They're leading me to believe that they are inconsistant with their ingredients if they can't list them all in the analysis. I just bought another bag of this stuff yesterday. Feed store charges $16.50..

Lis

[Flash44]

Stop and think for a minute. Something like alfalfa meal and soybeans is not one single uniform nutrient, like vit E. Alfalfa meal can be broken down into prot/fat/carb/fiber, and also has micronutrients such as calcium, phos, etc. So when you ask, Why doesn't Purina add Nutrient X and Nutrient Y, LOOK at the ingredients and ask if these nutrients are ALREADY IN THERE as components of something else!

If the feed company is having to add a bunch of micronutrients to the bag of feed, how good is the quality of the main ingredients?

You can pick apart a bag of feed down to the last molecule, but the real test is feeding it. Do the horses look, feel and do better on it or not? If so, and you feel like spending the money, buy it. If your horses do better or as well on something else, buy something else. Probably something better will come along in a few years as our knowledge and technology progresses.

[gabz]

amdfarm said:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Okay, I read the bag label and it lists Vitamin E at the very end on the analysis, but it's not mentioned on the analysis on their site.

And I found the pamphlet. It mentions B vitamins, iron, copper and magnesium, but magnesium isn't on the analysis either, unless I missed that on the bag, too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

amdfarm... I'm not sure when you say "...it lists Vitamin E at the very end of the analysis.." are you referring to the Ultium or the TC Complete?

I do NOT see Vitamin E on the ULTIUM ingredients list anywhere, per se. Only the DL-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate.

And.. for ULTIUM magnesium is there... it's MAGNESIUM OXIDE - it's the 5th FROM THE LAST ingredient,
And, I see mag ox in the TC Complete also...

And you keep referring to a feed tag and I and others keep telling you that there is NO feed tag on Ultium.... the ingredients and analysis are printed on the bag... Maybe in IA they do things differently???

For anyone else.... Thiamine IS a source for B1...

The amount of Biotin in the TC Complete is very negligible ... 0.20 mg per pound... so if you feed 5 pounds you would get 1 mg. I believe it takes at least 10 mg a day to make any difference??.

Overall I agree with what Flash said ... you can pick every feed apart but you have to use what's available and what works for the particular horse.

[amdfarm]

Thanks everyone!

Big thanks to Flash for the reality check. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm far from being a Type A personality, but I'm over-thinking this to death for some reason. I just want to be sure everything is covered and I know the results will tell the whole story and it's something I'm not going to notice in only a week either.

gabz, I corrected myself in the quote you posted about reading the bag label, NOT the tag. I mentioned ripping the tag off one time w/out realizing it was written right on the fancy bag, unlike all my other feeds. I must have been looking at another feed, my mistake.
Nope, not different in Iowa, just behind the times. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And yes, I'm talking about Ultium w/ the Vitamin E. On the bag label it lists Vitamin E right under A on the analysis, NOT in the ingredients. Everything else seems to be listed in the form of those big words I obviously don't get. I like things simple.

Not so worried about the biotin that much. I feed that straight anyway during show season when horses are shod and re-set frequently. This time of year and barefoot, they do fine w/out it.

I'm very excited about this feed, as I mentioned I've waited a year for it and I want to do what's best for my horses. I'm feeding it to 12 horses in all and will keep tabs on all of them and pay attention to any changes, good, bad or indifferent.

After tax I'm paying a little over $17/bag and if it works, it'll be worth every penny.

Thanks again everyone.

L.

[silverdog]

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I have been feeding Ultium to my 16 yr old TB event horse for about 3 months and he looks like a million bucks. He is not the easiest keeper and now is kind of fat. I still feed him 2/3 cup of oil 4 x a week. He is a hot horse and now has generally settled down. he still has his moments but those are related to other things besides temperment. It is pricy but well worth it as it makes my horse more rideable and look better.

[Holsteiner]

gabz, the bags in PA that i'm buying do have Vitamine E listed on the ingredients on the side of the bag. It's the last Vitamin listed.

[gabz]

Hmmm... <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> gabz, the bags in PA that i'm buying do have Vitamine E listed on the ingredients on the side of the bag. It's the last Vitamin listed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Velly interestingk .... I wonder if "my" shipment is "behind the times" (wink at amdfarm)
Or perhaps Purina realized that most people don't know that DL-alpha toco.blah blah blah is vitamin E so they decided to make it more simple for us???

I'm still on the fence ... between the large masses of molasses and being told (by Purina) it's not necessary for my pasture-potato, hill-climbing, 3-hours-at-a-time trail riding 18 year old QH ...

[amdfarm]

Those w/ TB's that needed to gain weight, how much did you start them on, or was it the same as you're feeding now?

And all that are feeding this, do you split it up, or feed the whole amount one time a day? I generally do all the graining during PM chores. I have 7 on a round bale and then I throw hay for the remainder AM and PM.

gabz... so you're behind the times, not us? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Granted I've had one bag of the stuff, but there were no chunks or anything it in at all. I'm getting 3 more bags today. When I used to feed Equine Junior, I often found small chunks, I broke them up, mixed it in and kept on feeding.

One of my "victims" is a 19yo pasture-potato trail riding quarter gelding. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif He LOVES it!

I really am only feeding one horse that's classified in the moderate to heavy work, but that's okay, I'm going to try it on everyone and see what happens.

L.

[gabz]

I am mixing the Ultium with Strategy and a tiny bit of Athlete - just to keep it in his system. during the summer when we start riding more and longer, I up the Athlete as needed.
My mix is 4 parts Strategy, 2 parts Ultium, 1/4 - 1/2 part Athlete. He gets a total of 2, maybe 2.5, pounds a day of this during his pasture-potato months (he's outside 24/7 with blanket and barn) and I'll increase it by another pound or pound-and-a-half during "work" season. Free choice, not so great, grassy hay with some post-bloom, 2nd cutting, alfalfa mixed in.

We will also do a little cow work too ... that takes a little extra energy.

I know that I need to feed him a certain poundage of the Purina products in order to get the minimum vit/mineral nutrients into him, so that's why the mix. He doesn't need the high octane Ultium or Athlete all the time, but I don't want to suddenly add a feedstuff that he isn't used to. He seems to tolerate small volume changes okay. I have a feeling that the Athlete will be dropped from the Purina line. Not sure if a rep told me that or I read it somewhere.

[amdfarm]

So you're adding the Strategy to somewhat tone the Ultium and Althete down and then a give a boost (additional Athlete) when in harder work?

I fed Strategy religiously for more than three years until I discovered Born to Win and added that to the mix instead. I'm still debating whether or not to continue the Born to Win. I didn't get any for this week.

I feed primarily alfalfa hay (some brome and timothy mixed in) and they are out 24/7 also.

Because I'm feeding much less (a little less than half) during this gradual switch, it seems like I'm gypping them. I don't have any super fast eaters and they clean it up really well, so I can't complain.

I do know that my chubby yearlings are not going to need 3-4 pounds each of this stuff. I'm going to try 2 pounds/day/each. And when the pasture is ready I'll only supplement them and broodmares and my stallion, who will be working during that time.

I noticed my OTTB mare's coat looked better today, but that could be because she's started shedding, too.

L.

[mbamissaz]

So far we've switched 3 horses over to the Ultium and are already seeing a difference in their coats and weight in just 1 month. So far, this feed gets a thumbs up for us http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Thanks again, everyone, for all of the great feedback!!

[pellegrini]

I started feeding it to my show horses and am so far happy. My TB that runs thin, especially when showing every weekend, is doing great on it. I was feeding strategy b/c I have a lot of young horses that are still growing, but I am pleasantly surprised at the difference in their coats with this feed. The higher fat helped me get off the solid fat that I was adding to the strategy. I am going to switch my WB off the Cadence this week and see what happens with his coat and endurance. Keep ya posted.

[amdfarm]

Thanks for the additional feedback. I'm finishing up week two and am noticing differences, as well. My new OTTB mare's coat was very dry and flakey and now it's got a bit of shine as she sheds and she's picking up weight at a reasonable rate. The going on 3 week old suckling loves it. I've giving her about a cup or so a day. When she gets more teeth I'll increase it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have decided to add Born to Win back to the mix to keep the protein up when they're not getting alfalfa and see what happens. If I don't notice a difference, I'll scratch it again.

L.

[A. P.]

I feed Ultium for weight gain as needed. My BO really likes a 50/50 mix of Ultium and Strategy. She's had very good luck bringing skinny guys back on this. I also like to add Mega Mag (a supplement)... I tried Glanzen but did not see much improvement in coat, and it's pricey, so I went back to Mega Mag (has good biotin content, good for the hoofies).

[Debbie D]

Our vet felt that our dressage pony was getting too thin across his topline..we keep a close eye with his diet as ponies tend to gain their weight in their bellies....She recommended that we switch to Ultium stating that it was designed to distribute fat where it is needed the most..we switched last August and have seen an incredible difference in his top line-no weight gain in the belly...his coat is also shinnier than ever.

[ShowBiz]

Can't find it in my area...anyone have any luck finding a feed store which sells it from Temecula on down? Big Horse Feed is trying to become authorized but no one else I've contacted around here sells the stuff, I am dying to get Nelson on it.

[Eventer55]

I see some people feeding it to weanlings, or sucklings. I was told not to feed it to my yearling. This was told to me by my Purina dealer and the rep, who both came to my barn.

Any thoughts?

[Flash44]

They told me that it has not been tested on young horses, who really need more protein and a very carefully balanced diet.

Having said that, I started feeding it to my 18 month old pony last fall (she's now 2). She is such an easy keeper, she only get a handful of grain (along with a vit/min supp) and I did not see the point of buying a whole bag of grain for her when she was consuming less than a pound a day.

[amdfarm]

Eventer55 - My feed guy never thought to ask, but I didn't see the harm in trying it. I feed alfalfa to help w/ the protein and free choice minerals for anything else, plus the ration balancer for the youngsters and broodmares.

Like Flash44, I'm not even feeding the suckling a pound of it. She still has her mother's milk, she's eating hay and she licks the mineral block. She's growing and healthy, so I don't think it's hurting her. She's gone from 40" and approx 170# at birth to 44 1/2" and 211# at 25 days old. Not any faster than normal, her legs are good, etc...

I usually feed equine junior to the youngsters, but it's much easier for me to feed one feed and add the ration balancer, if need be.

If you compare Ultium to Equine Jr. the numbers aren't that far off. Ultium is higher in fiber, fat, Vitamin A, copper, selenium, zinc and calcium and phosphorus are very close. The only real difference is Eq. Jr is 14.5% protein and Ultium is 11.7% and a handful isn't going to make much difference. Good quality hay and/or pasture can balance it out or use a ration balancer like Born to Win.

L.

[Bogie]

1 Quart of Ultium is 1 lb 4 oz.

[Eventer55]

From reading the ingredients list, I see that Ultium is mostly beet pulp. It's the number one ingredient. Why is it so expensive if the main ingredient is not expensive?

[amdfarm]

It has to be the way it's formulated w/ everything else... that or it's the darn fancy bag they put it in! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I just purchased my third week's supply and the fancy bags got taken to the burn pile... oh well.

Or... when I fed the beet pulp seperately w/ the previous mix, I noticed that the horses ate less hay because of the additional roughage/fiber. I'm noticing it's the same w/ the Ultium, as well. It's more of a complete feed, so feed less, save money all around.

[FortheFunofitFarm]

I read recently that horse feed labels are NOT listed in the same way as human feed labels. The main ingredient is NOT always the first listed and so on down the line. I feed Triple Crown Complete and couldn't be happier.

[Sing Mia Song]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eventer55:
I see some people feeding it to weanlings, or sucklings. I was told not to feed it to my yearling. This was told to me by my Purina dealer and the rep, who both came to my barn.

Any thoughts? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bought a scrawny yearling in Dec and talked to the Purina Rep about a diet for Birdy. He recommended Born to Win to get the protein levels up, especially as we are feeding straight timothy hay. Right now, we blend 2 pounds of the BTW with 1 1/2 pounds of Ultium and add 1 level cup each of rice bran pellets and flax seed.

Has anyone had horses get hot on Ultium? I've got two that turned into orangutans on it when switched from Horseman's Edge High Fat. I was having a horrible rodent problem with that feed, and one horse is a suspected EPSM, so I figured the Ultium would be a good choice. Right now those two horses are back to pellets, the Horseman's Edge High Energy (which is 10% pellets, but more fat, just not as much fat as the HEHF). Any suggestions?

[amdfarm]

From my very limited experience w/ the Ultium so far, I've not noticed any of mine being hot on it. More energy maybe and better focus, but certainly not what I would call hot.

L.

[Robby Johnson]

I have just switched Rhodey this weekend. Thank you for weighing it for me! The 3c = 1lb is great information to know!

Robby

[BonMaj]

I would like to know if anyone has tried to feed Ultium to a Cushing's horse. I have a 20-year old mare with the disease, and with the risk of founder, I am extremelyhesitant to feed ANYTHING with molasses in it, especially that which is listed in the top 25% of ingredients. Purina claims the molasses amount is "negligible", but again, it is far too high up on the ingredients list for my comfort. Also, any manufacturer claiming that their feed is the only thing you will ever need ("complete") is off their rocker! I'm sure you all know the nutritional value of hay varies from location to location, sometimes to extremes. They could not possibly make just one product that accommodates it all! Anyhow, if someone has something to post about the Cushing's issue, I would greatly appreciate it. She gets no sugars in her feed now, but the owner of the barn is really sold on trying this stuff, and I really have no desire to be the difficult boarder. I just want what is best for my horse. THANKS!

[OnQue36]

I feed it to my TB (not an easy keeper) who can be a bit hot. he gained quite a bit of weight! And he never got wild while he was on it. he has an issue with his muscle enzymes so it also helped thoes come down into a normal range! i would strongly recommend it!

[Hopeful Hunter]

I tried to when it first came out, but my horse just didn't like it. He's picky......

[Dressager in Disguise]

I REALLY like it... Mine are hot horses, but it has NOT made them hot. My one gelding is keeping weight better than I have ever seen him and the other used to have liquid manure, and it has nearly gone away.

[Ride'emVA]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BonMaj:
I would like to know if anyone has tried to feed Ultium to a Cushing's horse. I have a 20-year old mare with the disease, and with the risk of founder, I am extremelyhesitant to feed ANYTHING with molasses in it, especially that which is listed in the top 25% of ingredients. Purina claims the molasses amount is "negligible", but again, it is far too high up on the ingredients list for my comfort. Also, any manufacturer claiming that their feed is the only thing you will ever need ("complete") is off their rocker! I'm sure you all know the nutritional value of hay varies from location to location, sometimes to extremes. They could not possibly make just one product that accommodates it all! Anyhow, if someone has something to post about the Cushing's issue, I would greatly appreciate it. She gets no sugars in her feed now, but the owner of the barn is really sold on trying this stuff, and I really have no desire to be the difficult boarder. I just want what is best for my horse. THANKS! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Honestly, I would get her off all grain products, as well as sugar. I'd go with beet pulp or hay cubes (no alfalfa), or something else that meets her caloric needs without grain. A couple of companies have feeds that are grain and sugar-free, one of them is McCauley Bros. Alam (http://www.mccauleybros.com/special/alam.php3). It's mostly beet pulp, but you don't have to soak it.

Yahoo has a Cushing's group with TONS of great information for you. If you haven't been there, it's http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/

[luveventing]

just my experience on horses being hot on ultium....I switched my mare to ultium from horsesmans edge right as she was starting her layoff for an injury. I cut her grain in half to keep her sane since she is already a hot sensitive little mare. SHe has been on 8 weeks without turnout- 6 weeks without being ridden.

I have now increased her to about a pound per feeding LESS than what she was on before she got hurt. she hasnt lost any weight,and actually gained and she is already starting to muscle back up. and even after 8 weeks of no turnout, she has been in light work for 2 weeks and is totally rideable, still a little jumpy, but WAY better than I would have EVER expected with all this layup time and the cold weather. I even ride her outdoors in the wind as its getting dark. her coat is really getting shiny and I think she will even end up looking a little closer to a hunter than a super fit eventer as spring hits and the grass comes in. I am a fan, if I had a horse that needed more grain, I would probably mix it with a high fat sweet feed, the supplements stick better and its expensive, but I think very benefical.

[BonMaj]

Thanks for your response Ride'emVA! That has been my stance on the issue since the topic of adding this feed has come up. She currently receives beet pulp with what amounts to a handful of Strategy AX. (No specific nutritional goal with that, just makes me feel better, I guess, since everyone else gets it.) A couple of peppermints once in a while for stretching exercises and that's it. No molasses, no sugar cubes, no syrup, nada! I just don't feel safe trying this product with her, and have been trying to express that to the owner of the barn to no avail. She actually called Purina, who after saying that a Cushing's horse shouldn't have much of anything, continued on to tell her that the molasses content was minimal. (Therefore "safe", I guess.) Thank you so much for seconding my opinion!

[eventinglvr]

I used to use Ultium but switched to Cadence Ultra from Buckeye. It has 14% fat and 14% fiber, and I found I could feed about half as much as I was feeding in Ultium to my hard keepers. I also think it's more palatable. I have a few very picky eaters who never really cleaned up the Ultium, but they LOVE this Ultra stuff.

[SS189]

I never had any luck putting weight on with Ultium. XTN is fabulous!! I also like that it has vegetable oils and not molasses. I have some border line IR horses and they do great on XTN. XTN also seems to make my horses more level headed than the Ultium. JMO

[ladipus]

I used to feed it religiously to everybody-my ottb had been getting about 5# ultium,1# plain soakd beetpulp,and 1# buckeye ultimate finish to gain weight-i had him on this for about 8-10 months-the tb never really seemed to like it-took very long to eat it,then eventually started to not finish it,then completely just stopped eating it....tried taking away the beetpulp and the ult.finish and he still wouldn't touch it-we treated him for ulcers and he's now getting triple crown low starch which he loves-licks his bowl clean,and i'm giving him a lunch meal of blue seal vintage senior-which he also loves-i'm feeding him less than i ever did between these two feeds and he's never looked/felt better-so i guess the ultium wasn't good for him-he might be better now that the ulcers are treated/maintained but he's eating so well and looks great so i don't want to disrupt the apple cart
However i've had my 17yr wb hunter geld on it for 4yrs now-he's always been on it since i got him-looks great,is in good weight and maintains a nice topline/muscle condition-people often ask me what i feed him b/c he's got a beautiful dappled bay coat,and always shines-i'm sure alot of that has to do w/ the ultium.
My two 3yr wb's are on ration balancers w/ beetpulp-the thinner one gets a ration balancer w/ a fat supp built in. I'll probably switch them to ultium once they're in harder work and a little older.

[ladipus]

Something to add:
Blue Seal Vintage Performance LS is supposed to be comparable to Ultium-it 12%protein,12%fat and 20% fiber-its extruded which means its more easily digested and is suggested and especially made for hard keepers,rescue horses,seniors,ulcerprone,colic prone,and/or those w/ higher caloric needs....and its low starch!

[tabula rashah]

Got it. Tried it. Didn't work.

My horses looked crappy and my mega-hard keeper couldn't keep weight on with it.

I love Triple Crown products (just look at the ingredients list compared to Purina's ingredients list- huge difference), but they are harder for me to get.

Right now, my local feed store's own line is amazing- forumlated by KER made by Pennfield- How could I possibly go wrong with that!?

[bit-o-honey]

My 5 performance horses have been on Ultium for 6 months. They are easy keepers, and the grass in Northern Virginia has been lush all summer. The most I fed any of them was 3 lbs. per day, and in moderate to hard work they maintained condition beautifully. However (this could be unrelated but mentioning it as a caution)...one of my mares had a CBC done and it showed her proteins were low. I had to add Calf Manna to her diet, we will test her again in a bit.

[EllenAspen]

My two performance mare don't like it...I just switched back to Strategy today...

[eks]

Has anyone feeding it found it unpalatable? I finally got a bag for my two year old, and he took one bite and walked away. A three year old just starting work reacted the same way. They have been on Strategy; maybe they can't change. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



My horses didn't like the taste of Ultium at all. I switched over to XTN and I couldn't be happier. They look great!