PDA

View Full Version : one rein stop - emergency breaks?



hundredacres
Jun. 30, 2010, 01:27 PM
I thought I'd pick your brain over this subject a bit...

I have a very big, very strong STB mare who I've been allowing a gallop each day because it really seems to get the ticks out - we're working on straight and low and it's tough for her so she needs to blow off steam and it really seems to help. I've not been on a true runaway horse since I was a teen - today was close as the hay was down and I think she was just a bit more excited than usual.

Afterward I had a flashback as a teen when I sat deep and pulled the head around and inadvertently squeezed with my knees which sent us forward but sideways and I lost my seat and hit the dirt hard.

Today I stayed out of my seat and on my stirrups until she slowed down - then I straightened her out and we regained composure :)...I was probably spared because we were running out of soft ground and she hit the barnyard pavement (or it could have been even worse...I shudder to think). I did pull her head around a bit but was relectant to sit down because I knew I'd grip - I know this about me.

What do you do and what has worked. And do you practice this move? How?

Thanks :)

sublimequine
Jun. 30, 2010, 01:54 PM
Stop galloping until you can do it with control. ;)

Bluey
Jun. 30, 2010, 02:31 PM
I have seen horses running off with people at the walk.:lol:
Running off means you can't stop or steer and it can happen any time, any gait.
You need to train for control at any gait, then you won't be run off with, unless there is something wrong with the running off horse's brain.

Speed, how fast you are going, should not be a reason to be out of control.
Race horses are running all out, but still under control.

At speed, you don't try to stop a horse in a couple of strides, but you are in control and can stop in a few strides if you have to.

Try training so the horse keeps coming to hand, many half halts, changes of direction, stops and backs, starting at the walk and by the time you get to gallop, your horse should know to keep listening.

If you ever feel a horse is about to quit listening to you, get it's attention back on you, don't let it keep going on it's own, unless it was your idea.

sublimequine
Jun. 30, 2010, 02:37 PM
I have seen horses running off with people at the walk.:lol:
Running off means you can't stop or steer and it can happen any time, any gait.
You need to train for control at any gait, then you won't be run off with, unless there is something wrong with the running off horse's brain.

Speed, how fast you are going, should not be a reason to be out of control.
Race horses are running all out, but still under control.

At speed, you don't try to stop a horse in a couple of strides, but you are in control and can stop in a few strides if you have to.

Try training so the horse keeps coming to hand, many half halts, changes of direction, stops and backs, starting at the walk and by the time you get to gallop, your horse should know to keep listening.

If you ever feel a horse is about to quit listening to you, get it's attention back on you, don't let it keep going on it's own, unless it was your idea.

But typically that training does NOT start with the fastest gait. :lol:

hundredacres
Jun. 30, 2010, 03:39 PM
Bluey, I appreciate your response and suggestions that are useful - thank you! Today I never felt my horse wasn't listening but I think she came close to it for a brief moment but it was fleeting ~ she may have been feeling more confident in this exercise, less inhibited if you will. It was the biggest gallop she's ever done with me on her back and I was content that she heard my voice and composed when I asked (I was caught off guard with how fast that was because she hadn't gone full throttle before this). But this is why I asked the question - I certainly don't want to *wish* I'd thought more about it, mid air.

Bluey's answer was quite sufficient but I would still like to hear what other ideas people may have or interesting experiences. I once knew a person who galloped horses for a living that was ran off with and dumped badly. This person was well-equipped and I didn't ask any questions about why it ended that way...but now I'm curious.

leilatigress
Jun. 30, 2010, 03:50 PM
Taking off can happen at any gate but the gallop is by far the most traumatizing mentally.
http://www.naturalhorsesupply.com/onereinstop.shtml
That is a decent write up about it and it can be done safely from any gate given you have enough strength to get it done. DD was trotted off with recently and it was one of those did he just take off with my daughter?! Being 7 she has 0 chance of even attempting to do this so we just work at it slowly and make sure we realize its happening and stop pony. Biggest barrier I have found is really realizing WHEN the horse/pony is running off with you and when they are just ignoring you. I have been run off with several times with horses but the worst one was my first one where the horse took off at a full blown gallop and ran what seemed like forever and there was literally nothing I could do as I was just not strong enough or smart enough to realize what was happening.

Beverley
Jun. 30, 2010, 03:56 PM
My short answer is I wouldn't even think of trying a one rein stop on a full out galloping horse. Your prior experience illustrates that such a maneuver will end badly.

When I gallop horses, they are on the bit, I'm up out of the saddle and have the reins bridged, and we roll along in a good rhythm, me with enough rein contact to steer/support, and enough balance to stay aboard if horse goes a little sideways from say, a blowing plastic bag. In the context of galloping, taking a stronger grip on the reins or with one's legs is telling the horse to go faster. This, humorously, is often referred to as a 'runaway' when in fact the horse thinks it's doing exactly what is being asked.

When I am done galloping, I drop the reins, relax my body, and say whoa (well, not precisely whoah, I have a 'huh-ho' that says okay, we're done, let's start winding down). Horse knows that signal to start relaxing and slowing. If for any reason I need to stop more quickly- well, horse is in relaxed nongallop mode and a half halt series down to full halt will do the trick.

If I were you, I'd gallop this STB mare in a nice large arena until you, and she, are on the same page as to which buttons mean what.

hundredacres
Jun. 30, 2010, 04:21 PM
Thank you for the link leil...good point about the kids perception of a runaway.




If I were you, I'd gallop this STB mare in a nice large arena until you, and she, are on the same page as to which buttons mean what.

Most definitely :) Today was fun, but enlightening.

When I posted this question earlier I was actually asking if a one-rein stop is a legitimate way to stop a horse (thanks for answering that Beverley!) because as I felt *that* gallop today, the LAST thing I would have wanted to do at the fastest point would have been to toss us out of balance. Yet, this is commonly taught - maybe not even taught, but many people will spit it out like it's a fact. I'm certain that was why I did it when I was a teenager. I'm grateful that I forgot it today.

I also had to chuckle at the runaway comment...it's usually the case, isn't it? Or people say they were "thrown" even when they fell off. My daughters friend asked my daughter this morning if she'd ever been thrown and I was impressed when dd said "no, but I've fallen off!". :)

Bluey
Jun. 30, 2010, 04:26 PM
I never heard of "one rein stop" until a few years ago, on the internet and it seemed a hairbrained idea.
It still does, but I don't know in practice, not having tried it.

We started and trained race horses and few ever ran away.
Those were then exercised by the more experienced riders, but most riders could handle the rest without problems.
We used the technique explained above by Beverly.
When galloping, your hands give the horse a "fifth foot", supports it, so when you don't, the horse then knows to slow down.
You don't want a race horse to run off and get himself crippled with uncontrolled speed, that he may not be trained and fit for yet, or hurt the rider, if running off too far then possibly miss a race from it, so you don't put someone that can't handle those horses on them.:no:

On that "one rein stop", for what I understand, it is some kind of "disengaging the hind end" you are supposed to teach a horse standing there, then practice walking and trotting and loping around slowly and so if and when a horse is thinking of bolting, you can ask it that kind of disengaging" and avoid the horse taking off with you.

That "one way stop" is not to be used once you are on a run away, because then, done at speed, the chances of the horse falling with you and it has happened to some, is very real.

The trouble I see is that, once the horse engages again, it probably is still thinking of acting up, unless you are proactive and put it to work and do it without setting it off again.

If you train a horse and you aquire the skills to keep it under control and don't ride it where you can't control it, then that the horse may bolt won't be a question.
That to me is a better solution than teaching and depending on "one rein stops".

I think that the OP was doing fine already, just wondering what if, if it had gotten to the point of running off, not just a strong, fast gallop, but still under control.

When training horses, you learn in a hurry how to use all your aids and the hands on the reins are generally playing on the horse like on an instrument, each one independent of the other and along with the other aids.
That is what keeps you communicating with your horse.:yes:

katarine
Jun. 30, 2010, 04:29 PM
meh what people yap about and what they either a) do and or b) know, are often wildly disparate things.

If I determine at let's say a high trot that Dobbin's goofy and not paying me the slightest bit of attention, he'll potentially get a myriad of tools thrown his way, one of which MIGHT be a ORS where I shove his hinds L and pull his face to the R and fold him around and get him back on Page 43. But we'll have sorted this all out endlessly before we go a gallopin'.

I gallop only the good horses, and if one like my dear sweet Chippy decides to peal his eyelids back and hit another gear in a gallop- and I think it's safe-then I tell myself I can ride faster than you can run, bebop, so giddyup ;) Asking them for 7th gear tends to empty the oxygen tank :) A ORS on a bolter or a runaway that has already hit mach one? Stupid.

Kyzteke
Jun. 30, 2010, 04:50 PM
sorry...double post...

Kyzteke
Jun. 30, 2010, 04:54 PM
The one rein stop was never designed for run aways -- at least that is my understanding. It is for PREVENTING runaways. Bluey is right that it works by disengaing the hindquarters, which is actually having one hind leg cross deeply underneath the horse.

You don't have to be an expert in equine biomechanics to see that doing this at speed can have disasterous consequences. Would NOT recommend it.

Instead, you can start to circle the horse (if you have the space); start off big and work to a smaller circle.

If you are going straight and have no other option, do NOT lean forward and take a grip on the horse's mouth and pull back. This is the natural instinct for most of us, but that is just like hitting most horses with a hot-shot -- it just drives them forward. Instead, sit down as much as you can, relax you body/legs and use your hands to "tease" the horse back to you -- alittle pull, then release; repeat. Don't give them a platform to brace against.

And train your horse with voice commands. This takes ALOT of time and many, many repetitions (like 1,000s!), but it WILL work.

A good friend of mine (endurance rider) was starting a young Arab gelding who was a very hot boy. Among her other training, she used "WHOA" alot. Like every single time she asked the horse to stop -- both in the saddle and on the ground.

Fast forward a few years. She was riding his guy in a ride at a rolling canter and he was merrily tossing his head, which he tended to do from time to time. Well, he gave one REALLY big toss and off came his headstall!!:eek: (she rode in a mechanic hackmore).

Horse kept going and even increased his rate. So there she was on this hard, high desert trail, full of rocks and other icky (painful) objects and by this time she & her horse (Rio) are moving along at close to a dead gallop. She told me she considered baling, but was too chicken.

Finally she just sat back in her saddle, pulled on the reins (which were now more of a "neck loop") and said loudly, "RIO --- WHOA!!!!!"

And without a moment's hesitation he put on the brakes and slid to a stop. Then he looked back at her, as if to say, "What? We were having so much fun!:D"

hundredacres
Jun. 30, 2010, 05:13 PM
Horse kept going and even increased his rate. So there she was on this hard, high desert trail, full of rocks and other icky (painful) objects and by this time she & her horse (Rio) are moving along at close to a dead gallop. She told me she considered baling, but was too chicken.



Oh my...I shuddered just thinking about THINKING about bailing! Great story :)

twofatponies
Jun. 30, 2010, 05:20 PM
Might not apply to the OP, but it is also useful NOT to practice the same gallop up the same route (especially back to the barn) every time. It can start to turn into a bad habit. If you do want to do some speed work, do it in different places, in different directions, and always always start and stop when YOU ask, not when the horse offers.

I remember (among other, worse experiences) being on a rental trail ride, coming out into a big field, and the guide said "do you guys want to canter?" I felt that canter coming about fifty feet before he asked. I guessed they cantered the horses in that same spot every single time. After however many times that had happened, there was going to be a canter in that field whether I wanted to or not!!!

hundredacres
Jun. 30, 2010, 05:24 PM
Excellent point...I have used the same spot, but we also do circles and walk/trot there regularly too. I realized that she anticipated it this morning so we did some circles and went to a walk then we started...so yes, it IS relevant! Thank you!

Kyzteke
Jun. 30, 2010, 07:37 PM
Depending on the fitness of the horse, you can also try cantering (galloping) them up a hill -- most aren't inclined to run off when they are working that hard.

However, keep in mind that all this galloping will just get her fitter and fitter....that's why they gallop racehorses after all, and that may not be what you are ultimately looking to do.

So maybe look at other ways for her to "decompress..."

Auventera Two
Jun. 30, 2010, 07:39 PM
I have posted about the ORS so many times I just can't do it again. :lol: Do a search in the Dressage forum for my posts. There is a lengthy one or two in there. One or two here in endurance too I believe.

Cliff notes version:

ORS has nothing to do with strong arming the head around to your boot. It's about disengaging the hindquarters and shutting off the engine. The horse doesn't go where the nose points. The horse goes where the shoulder points. Horse can gallop full out with nose tucked in its arm pit.

Teach at the halt first, then walk, then trot, then canter. You get the idea.

One of my horse's first "rides": http://www.hphoofcare.com/TrainingORS.jpg Teaching the ORS from halt. Rein totally slack. SEAT and LEG control HINDQUARTERS. Hinds have to cross over each other laterally. Has very little to do with the head.

tabula rashah
Jun. 30, 2010, 08:06 PM
And train your horse with voice commands. This takes ALOT of time and many, many repetitions (like 1,000s!), but it WILL work.





This is what I do- all of my guys will stop on a dime at the word WHOA! I use it every singe time I stop ( in hand, under saddle, etc) until it is completely ingrained in the brain.

Other than that I would really learn how to put your arse in the saddle, sit like you weigh a ton of bricks, open your hip and anchor your hands with a bridged rein. Do not let her pull you forward! Personally, I would take her to some place where you could go about forever and practice- walk, halt; trot, halt; canter, halt; hand gallop, halt; gallop, halt and keep going till you get the message.

Beverley
Jun. 30, 2010, 11:59 PM
Horse can gallop full out with nose tucked in its arm pit.

Um, no.

You got one that can do that, please post a picture.

The last person I saw attempt a one rein stop, on a horse that wasn't even galloping full out, slid into home plate on the asphalt. Not pretty, but thankfully no big injuries for either party.

As has been noted, it's a tool for keeping a 'potential' runaway from getting up a head a steam. Not one I have any use for myself, but if it works for folks, great.

To attempt it on a full out galloping horse would be, in my opinion, a stupid idea.

CHT
Jul. 1, 2010, 12:30 AM
It is odd to me how the "one rein stop" seems to have replaced the pully rein. They are not the same thing. I am required to teach the Pully rein or emergency stop to all my lesson students as per my insurance. I imagine that is fairly standard.

I do find it effective as a lesson as it gives riders an idea of what to do to balance themselves if they feel they are going faster than they would like and unable to slow down fast enough. I have used the pulley rein on horses that have gotten rude/quick (say after a jump) although not for a while now!

I think what many people are using when they talk about one rein stops is in fact a pulley rein.

Bluey
Jul. 1, 2010, 01:02 AM
It is odd to me how the "one rein stop" seems to have replaced the pully rein. They are not the same thing. I am required to teach the Pully rein or emergency stop to all my lesson students as per my insurance. I imagine that is fairly standard.

I do find it effective as a lesson as it gives riders an idea of what to do to balance themselves if they feel they are going faster than they would like and unable to slow down fast enough. I have used the pulley rein on horses that have gotten rude/quick (say after a jump) although not for a while now!

I think what many people are using when they talk about one rein stops is in fact a pulley rein.

Not really, a one rein stop seems to be pulling the head to the side until the horse moves it's hindend around and eventually decides to just stand there, which is supposed to keep it from taking off.

One problem I see is that whatever reason the horse had to want to take off, it probably will try to act up again, as soon as it is given it's head, unless the rider is skillful in changing it's mind.

Here are a whole bunch of one rein stops, as several people understand them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmpDSbXPtzU&feature=PlayList&p=B29C1982FBFF557B&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=41

chicamuxen1
Jul. 1, 2010, 07:27 AM
All my horses get taught one rein stops AHEAD OF TIME!!!! This is just another training move. teach it to them and practice it regularly. First, read about it and learn how to train your horse. It's not just a pull on one rein, it's a disengagement of the hindquarter which results in the horse moving the hind quarters to one side and stepping over or across with the inside hind leg.

Start with doing it at the walk and move up to faster gaits gradually. Do it regularly so they stay attuned towhat you are asking for. You don't have to make it a full stop every time. I use a partial ORS it to remind a strong horse to back off and lighten up or I will do a full stop. It doesn't have to be an abrupt move either. My younger horse went thru a phase of bolting suddenly when he heard a scarey noise (like a squirrel running thru leaves!) and I did a number of ORS from a power sprint and we didn't tip over or crash.

Teach it, practice it and your horse will know what it is and respond well. Don't just spring it on him out of the blue.

Before the ORS your horse needs to be taught how to yield their head. Try this site for some ideas.

http://www.naturalhorsetraining.com/trainingtips94.html


chicamuxen

hundredacres
Jul. 1, 2010, 08:08 AM
I have my horse yield her head like shown in these ORS videos every day - but not to practice ORS...it's what we do in our daily routine to get her stiff neck limber, and to remind her that she can bend in tack (ex-trotter). I would never, ever have bent her head like that at a at a gallop. Heck, I'm not sure I could have physically moved her head at that point. Do people REALLY use it from a gallop? Yikes.

Will make a point to use more "whoa" vocally.

AnotherRound
Jul. 2, 2010, 11:12 AM
I wouldn't use a one rein stop on a horse at a gallop. If you use the one rein stop at an all out gallop, you and the horse are gonna die.

Here's what I think.

If you intend for her to gallop, let her gallop. Lay flat, grab mane and push on.

You need to gallop where she is going in an oval, around the edge of a field or track, so she can run herself out. No sense asking her to run if you're only going to stop her before she's ready.

A runaway horse can only run for so long, and it isn't long, like two miles, before you sure could stop. Stand in the stirrups, and let her come back down on her own. She shouldn't bounce to a stop at a gallop, she's got to come back, and there's alot of adrenaline to get through. Be patient, and don't expect her to respond like she was in a ring. Remember, you asked her for the gallop.

You should be doing a breeze, fast gallop but not all out. Rig her correctly for this - put a running martingale on her to help from keeping her head from flying up at you, but you can't tie her down witha standing. Give her a figure eight noseband to keep her mouth shut, but allow her full breath. She sounds like she's got the bit in her teeth, so to speak. You can't stop a horse who sets their jaw against you.

Use a french link or doctor bristol; you need more connection to her mouth and the nutcracker of a snaffle will cause her to drop her jaw and avoid the bit. Think of a different bit, but mostly you need a dropped noseband/figure eight to keep her mouth shut.

If you have her mouth shut, running martingale, and an oval track to let her blow out on, you shouldn't be having this problem. You don't want to run her straight and then ask her to come back at the end. You need alot of room to come down slowly.

If she was on the track before, you are putting her into the oldl mindset, which is a strong instinct to run, whether she was a trotter or runner, its a race workout, and if you try to bring her back early, its going to be frustrating for her. Just let her run.

Kyzteke
Jul. 2, 2010, 12:27 PM
If you intend for her to gallop, let her gallop. Lay flat, grab mane and push on.

No sense asking her to run if you're only going to stop her before she's ready.

Rig her correctly for this - put a running martingale on her to help from keeping her head from flying up at you, but you can't tie her down witha standing. Give her a figure eight noseband to keep her mouth shut, but allow her full breath. She sounds like she's got the bit in her teeth, so to speak. You can't stop a horse who sets their jaw against you.

Use a french link or doctor bristol; you need more connection to her mouth and the nutcracker of a snaffle will cause her to drop her jaw and avoid the bit. Think of a different bit, but mostly you need a dropped noseband/figure eight to keep her mouth shut.

If you have her mouth shut, running martingale, and an oval track to let her blow out on, you shouldn't be having this problem.

Sorry -- I have to disagree with most of this. None of this is training -- it's just using various mechanicals to out muscle the mare.

If you want to train her, TRAIN HER.

First of all, I think the OP said she is a standardbred -- at least I think that's what STB stands for. So galloping with a rider on her back is not a "trigger" for her.

And even if she is an OTTB, most of them are trained to pull up when you ask, even if they are breezing. Granted, many of them are barely trained, but they certainly are expected to stop when you ask and not just gallop till they are tired. Trainers would fire your butt if you just let the horse run like that.

Yes, you "asked them to gallop." Now you are asking them to NOT gallop -- so they should be able to comply.

I do agree with galloping on an oval; that just ensures the safety of the enterprise. Like one poster said, there is an old racetrack expression, "I can ride as far as you can run." So if you get in trouble, just keep steering her in a big circle and relax -- eventually she will get tired.

But the idea is to establish some control where that doesn't happen very often.

Another point: t's been my experience (working on the track for quite afew years) that an all out run doesn't really calm a horse down at all - - it charges them up. So if you are trying to "calm" the horse by doing this, it's not going to work. You will find she gets more and more excited as you approach the place where you run, prancing, etc.

Now, an all out run is different than a controlled gallop -- hand gallop we used to call it. But that can easily turn into a runaway if you don't have brakes.

So I would have to ask the OP exactly WHY you are doing this again?

HOnestly, if you really want to blow some steam off of her in a controlled way, trot her up some hills....;)

Tif_Ann
Jul. 2, 2010, 05:27 PM
Um, no.

You got one that can do that, please post a picture.


When we first started training my blind horse, if he bolted, I could have his head on my knee and he'd still be going straight no matter what the gait. We very quickly came up with other ways of working with him than the ORS. And he didn't get to be allowed above a trot out of an arena for a VERY LONG TIME. I still remember how liberating it was the first time I said "to heck with it" and gave him his head on the trail ... and how thrilled I was when I sat back, lifted the reins, and he slowed down and relaxed to me. ;) Not sure if I can get him to gallop straight with his head on my knee now (nor do I want to!) but boy, did he baffle a few trainers when he was starting out.

That said - common practice around here is a one rein stop that takes a while. If your horse bolts, you do a "one rein stop" that involves circling and making the circles smaller and smaller. Absolutely suicide to try and disengage the hindquarters and come to a fast, unbalanced stop at a gallop. But keeping steady pressure on one rein and circling smaller and small WILL require the horse to slow down and eventually stop.

hundredacres
Jul. 2, 2010, 10:38 PM
So I would have to ask the OP exactly WHY you are doing this again?

Honestly, if you really want to blow some steam off of her in a controlled way, trot her up some hills....;)

Thanks for asking Kyz...I'd like to explore this question too: my mare is indeed a Standardbred and I am her first rider. We do ring work and we're working on bending and moving less like a train, more over the back instead of a hollow (it took her 12 days to get her head down and relax her back at walk) - we are still at walk now because she is so stiff and I'm in no hurry. I'd consider this our first 30 days of consistent and focused schooling. She tries hard but can get to a point where she feels tense, so I am trying to find a way to decompress and get re-focused. The gallop worked well for about a week because we'd do more of a hand-gallop and then go back to the arena and finish up on an excellent note, cool down and get a bath. It seemed perfect at first! :/

Ultimately I want this mare to be comfortable hacking to mix up the lessons because we're making wonderful progress. She is a pleasure horse, I won't show or compete, but I want her well rounded. She gets too excited outside of the ring so I'm inching (literally) farther and farther away at the walk but she has definite boundaries. I'd love some ideas to make arena work and lessons more interesting - trotting for her is really the same speed as a hand gallop *sigh* and probably equally as exhilarating for her.

I appreciate the thoughtful responses to my post. It's been helpful to us.

Beverley
Jul. 2, 2010, 10:41 PM
That said - common practice around here is a one rein stop that takes a while. If your horse bolts, you do a "one rein stop" that involves circling and making the circles smaller and smaller.

In my lexicon, that is not a one rein stop. That is simply circling until you have sufficient calmness and control to get a halt. Been doing that sort of thing as needed for a half century, long before the modern marketing of the 'OSR.':)

First season I hunted my OTTB after he lost an eye, sure, you could turn his head so the blind eye was leading and he'd come right back to you- and he soon decided aw, Mom will keep me out of trouble, I'll just keep on trucking while leading with my blind eye. But- no- even though arguably a hunt field gallop, a long way from a flat out gallop. As you note, when you give 'em their head and relax about it- you have control. Much of what is called 'galloping' or 'bolting' that requires a ORS is in my opinion simply fear in the head of the rider- horse isn't 'really' going anywhere, but because rider is tense and afraid it truly feels like insufficient control.

Tif_Ann
Jul. 3, 2010, 01:29 AM
Much of what is called 'galloping' or 'bolting' that requires a ORS is in my opinion simply fear in the head of the rider- horse isn't 'really' going anywhere, but because rider is tense and afraid it truly feels like insufficient control.

Agreed! My sister and I "rehabbed" a 20 year old Appaloosa that was in a rescue program but was listed as a "runaway" and a "bolter" so had absolutely no interest. He wasn't horribly attractive either. But we figured we'd evaluate him and put some time on him and see if we could help with his "runaway" tendencies. Got on him and turns out he was one of the most well broke horses I have ever ridden. He was immediately responsive in all gaits, neck reined with the flick of a finger, went anywhere you pointed him, through water, in traffic, you name it, and never took a step out of line. His canter was FAST though. It was controlled, and he was listening and responsive ... but very fast. While we understand why someone might think he felt like he was "running away" it absolutely was not. He spent about six weeks with us and the rescue posted our very lengthy evaluation on their site and he was adopted very quickly after that. Went to the plains of North Dakota to be a 14 yr old boy's horse, and from what I hear they rode all over the prairies and hills together, bareback, in a halter. Unfortunately after about a year together he was struck by lightening and had to be put down .... but I'm forever grateful that we took a chance on him and that he had the perfect home for the end of his life.

hundredacres
Jul. 3, 2010, 08:19 AM
Tif, that's a nice story - and I think you are spot on with the bolter theory. When people tell me about a problem their horse has I try to consider the source.

Kyzteke
Jul. 5, 2010, 02:38 PM
HA -- I know next to nothing about STBs and the way they are trained, but I know that most of them DO travel in some sort of device that keeps their head up (like an overcheck), so I'm not surprised she is stiff.

First, help me out by describing your set-up -- you say she is nervous outside the arena, but then you mention galloping her in a field. How far is this field from your arena?

If I were you, I would try alot of the natural horsemanship sort of ground work (of which the ORS is one) -- not necessarily round-penning, but the in-hand stuff. The purpose of most of these exercises is to remove "braces" or blocks from the horse -- in other words, stiffness.

I've also found it really helps establish a bond between horse and handler as well and gets the horse to really focus and trust you. The gal I told you about who did the vocal cues spent almost 6 months on ground work on this horse before she got on him -- one of the exercises she did was to walk next to him (remember always do both sides) and -- on a totally loose lead rope -- the horse had to "match" her pace. And I mean, EXACTLY. So his ears never got past her shoulder/arm. When she walked slowly, so did he. When she turned he did as well. If you've ever trained a dog to heel -- it's like that.

There are alot of great dvd's out there by Parelli, Clint Anderson, Buck Brannaman, Peter Campbell, Martin Black, John Lyons -- LOTS of guys. You don't have to stick to one particular method, but the goal is to establish a stong leader/follower bond, reduce stiffness or braces in the horse, and to teach them to turn to you in times of trouble, rather than just reacting. I am firmly convinced all of this stuff will pay big dividends when you get the horse going u/s.

You don't have to buy the dvds -- there use to be a place online that rented them -- try Googling and see what you come up with.

Also there is a GREAT book on horse stretches, but you can find alot of the movements online if you Google "carrot stretches." If you start each training session with this, I bet you'll find it helps loosen her up.

And you do need to start getting her out of the arena. If you aren't confident enough to ride her (and that's ok), take her on long walks. If you have another solid riding horse and feel comfortable doing it, there is nothing better than ponying them, so that is another option.

Meanwhile, start exposing her to "scary stuff" in the arena (start with you on the ground) -- use your imagination -- and gradually she will start to learn to accept weird stuff if you say it's ok.

Now, when you are riding her, are you trying to get her to come forward into the contact or are you riding her on a loose rein? I guess I'm asking what sort of "style" you are trying to train her in.

If it was me, I would bag the gallops for now. IMHO the MOST important aspect of working with a greenie is to keep them relaxed, and galloping the way you described really doesn't do that -- in fact, as I mentioned before, it tends to do the opposite.

Hope this helps alittle....

Cindyg
Jul. 6, 2010, 01:14 AM
I think the ORS has to be practiced in non-emergency situations until it's a conditioned response, at all three gaits. Then, in an emergency situation, you're not just pulling the horse off balance by force; you're invoking an conditioned response that the horse is used to and comfortable with.

Since I'm into clicker training, I always follow this up with a click and a treat.

So in the rare emergency (and I have used the ORS in an emergency), not only does my horse stop, but then he hears the click and his mind totally, immediately switches gears from the spook to the anticipated treat.

I have a difficult horse, and this combination has been useful to us. I've never had to use it on a full-blown runaway gallop (thank you, God); but I've been able to invoke it at the first stride of a spook bolt, and the situation was resolved within seconds.

katarine
Jul. 6, 2010, 10:05 AM
In my lexicon, that is not a one rein stop. That is simply circling until you have sufficient calmness and control to get a halt. Been doing that sort of thing as needed for a half century, long before the modern marketing of the 'OSR.':)


OSR ? Is that the tried and true Oh SHi! Response to the horse bolting? You know, grab the horn, monkey up those legs, and shriek like a baby? ;)

Beverley
Jul. 6, 2010, 10:20 AM
OSR ? Is that the tried and true Oh SHi! Response to the horse bolting? You know, grab the horn, monkey up those legs, and shriek like a baby? ;)

I believe that is the term in some parts of the country. For me the acronym is WGDI. Whoa, Gosh Darn it...:cool:

katarine
Jul. 6, 2010, 11:25 AM
ROFLMAO ;)

Guilherme
Jul. 6, 2010, 12:45 PM
Or there's always Yosemite Sam's version of the "one rein stop."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL9slHxN6EM

Sorry it's not in English, but I'm sure you can figure out what Sam's saying. :D

G.

Beverley
Jul. 6, 2010, 06:34 PM
I think the ORS has to be practiced in non-emergency situations until it's a conditioned response, at all three gaits.

This is what I have trouble understanding. Why are you simply not schooling the correct, plain old halt at all three gaits? ALL horse training is intended to overcome their natural fears and instincts- so yeah, horse bolts, you ask for halt, you GET a halt if you have schooled for it, in an arena, at all three gaits.

It's a pretty important thing to teach beginner riders, too. And so again I wonder, why confuse a novice who might in turn confuse the horse as to what is being asked?

Mine are schooled with the normal hands on signals (leg, seat hands), and just a plain old verbal whoa. So, while there are times when disengaging the hind end on the trail is useful for training or attention-getting or other reasons, I just don't know why I'd want to use that to stop a horse, when they KNOW the standard 'request' for a stop, from the simple 'whoa' to the aforementioned WGDI (which would be, if need be, the pulley rein referenced earlier).