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ProzacPuppy
Jun. 28, 2010, 09:14 AM
:mad:

Bluey
Jun. 28, 2010, 09:42 AM
I would think that cleaning a neglected place could be a character building experience, especially if it is done to achieve a goal she is striving for, caring for the horse at home.

I hope that your daughter can still ride with friends, something that is much harder to do when you have horses at home.
That may be in the end a deal breaker.
She will learn much with horses at home, then she may lose interest without peers to enjoy the horses with.

You know your daughter best, her depth of motivation, her stick-with-it character, or lack of it, what the rest of the family needs, so it is your decision what is best for all of you.

shakeytails
Jun. 28, 2010, 11:36 AM
Just a lease, not purchase? If so, I'd go with the nicer house. I hate mobile homes and I can't imagine living in one that's 30 years old. For awhile we lived in one that was probably 5-6 years old. It was very cheaply built and hard to heat and cool (and we didn't even pay the utilities- it was free housing on a dairy farm that DH worked on). Because they don't have a proper foundation, it's also a PITA to keep bug and rodent free. They're also a tornado magnet! I can deal with a lot of stuff as far as houses go (think old farmhouse), but old mobile home- no thanks! If it were a purchase I'd deal with the MH just long enough to build a house.

Coanteen
Jun. 28, 2010, 12:59 PM
Well, what does daughter say? Does she get input into her living situation?

I'd skew towards a decent place for the horses, but not so far that I'd be willing to live in a 30 yr old mobile home. But perhaps your daughter is.

How about looking for a cheaper boarding situation, is that an option?

danceronice
Jun. 28, 2010, 01:51 PM
My question would be...define "poor condition." I wouldn't lease, never mind buy, unless I was allowed to have a professional inspection done. My gut says rent it and deal, but not if it's less a matter of having some ratty carpet torn out and using or replacing twenty-year-old appliances than it is of having sketchy wiring and black mold. Not to mention water-quality issues (is it on a well? Septic field?) Out of date and needing a facelift is one thing, massive overhaul and dangerous conditions are something else.

EiRide
Jun. 28, 2010, 02:15 PM
I lived in a series of horrid apartments and houses while in college in Upstate NY. One place my toilet used to freeze over in the coldest weather. I had to chuck my shampoo by the drain so that I could thaw out a blob to get on my hand to wash my hair--by the time I was done soaping up and rinsing, the shampoo would be ready.

I found it very worth it because I was able to keep my horse and go to school. They lived a lot better than me for a good number of years. :-0 I would be more willing to live in a dump than put my horses in one.

However.

Is there riding room at the 2 acre place? Is there a sacrifice lot so they can be out often, even if it is a small space? Horses can adjust to a lot of situations with good management as long as the facility is safe for them.

SGray
Jun. 28, 2010, 02:48 PM
is she really aware of and willing to do work involved with keeping horses herself? there is alot of drudgery involved -- plus, you need to consider startup costs for necessary equipment

similar to EIRide I lived in a garage apt while in college that got so cold one winter (in Houston mind you) that there was ice on the INSIDE of the window

Gloria
Jun. 28, 2010, 05:14 PM
If your daughter cannot stand the existing mobile home, is it an option to put a mobile home there yourself? Even if you do buy the property, you still need a place to stay in while the house is being built.

TheJenners
Jun. 28, 2010, 05:28 PM
Ick. No to the mobile home. No no no. Sorry. Especially one that old. I lived in one at college that was 18 years old and decently kept up, some tears in the linoleum that I covered with a runner, stains in the carpet, etc. Even with me being fastidious about cleaning, sweeping, mopping, vacuuming all the time, keeping it clean clean clean, it never looked better than it was. And BUGS, oy. I sold it at a loss when I moved, despite sinking money into it on improvements (paint, new floors, new outlets because the old ones were bad and one melted my dryer cord!, removed sagging doors...).

Sorry. If moving from the boarding situation saves $1000/month, that can go towards some hay if the two acres isn't enough. But no, no trailer. Horrible. Very sad for me because it was like "wow, this is the best I can afford and it's horrible." I'll never be able to live in one again.

deltawave
Jun. 28, 2010, 05:41 PM
I was thinking along the lines Gloria was thinking . . . can you arrange to have a nicer/newer mobile home on the nicer property? Or a modular home? Wouldn't be free, but might work out financially if the move would otherwise save $1K/month.

You could even consider renting the older mobile home for a bit of extra income, but that might not be kosher with the property owners, and being a landlord/renter is always dicey, particularly if the rent is low.

MsM
Jun. 29, 2010, 09:29 AM
If daughter wants more riding time, it doesnt sound like this will do it. All the work involved in buying supplies and caring for the place and horses will eat up a LOT of her time. Not to mention trying to live in the hovel of a MH. Hard to see how moving her and horses there is going to work out better than her living rent-free and boarding horses. Maybe she needs to find cheaper board. I would be very hesistant to have her take on a fixer-upper farmette when she is not even living on her own now!

CatOnLap
Jun. 29, 2010, 12:14 PM
30 years is pretty much the end of lifespan for most single wides according to our local mobile home dealer.

The roofs tend to fail, and even if it doesn't leak inside, it may be leaking down into the walls, leading to mold problems. Plus, how cold does it get where you are? Nothing worse than a cold mobile in winter. Space heaters won't cut it and they are expensive to run! ( cost us over $100 a month to heat a 400 sq ft insulated mobile in winter with electric space heaters).

Having done it both ways, 2 acres is plenty of space to keep 2 horses if you are buying supplemental hay and feed, and the nicer, larger, probably warmer house, will be worth it. yes the lovely land is pretty and wonderful, but won't keep you warm in the cold weather.

If you do decide on the mobile, get the home inspector to do an inside air quality test. That can detect the black mold spores if they are there. Around here, some landlords won't allow such a test to be done, because if it comes back positive, the place gets condemned until a very expensive mold removal program is done.

Janet
Jun. 29, 2010, 01:03 PM
It is over 8 acres with pond, huge pecan trees.
...
There is enough grazing to support a dozen horses.

I don't know where you are, but it is highly unlikely that 8 acres (and not all of it is pasture) is enough grazing to support 12 horses.

In most of the east coast, the rule of thumb is 1.5 to 2 acres of pasture per horse if the grazing is to "support" the horse from April to October (rather than just providing entertainment without nutrition).

Alagirl
Jun. 29, 2010, 04:09 PM
Passadena on the MH. I have seen how people live in old ones with questionable upkeep. I have seen 100 yo houses with questionable upkeep and no central heat and air, the house won hands down...

Around here you can have tons of trailers 'preowned' for reasonable, heck a camping trailer is to be preferred over an old one like that. :lol:

Unless the owner is willing to put a newer one up, DD will HATE the place, when there isn't a warm spot in the whole place other than the bed, or a cold one (actually window A/Cs are pretty good) other than the fridge...

HiddenAcres
Jun. 29, 2010, 05:55 PM
Could DD move home w/Mom & Dad and keep horses boarded? Everyone saves money. DD saves her salary to add to downpayment on property or on the boarding?

Her work is downtown? Can she Park and Ride? Cheaper land is up 45 through Willis and New Caney, up 59 through Cleveland and Shepherd (more flooding that way than 45). Park and Riding makes the commute more tolerable.

I think the mobile home sounds like an adventure and might be so much fun.
But I walked to school in snow and I don't have granite counters:D.

Can she handle it for a year? That would be 12K - substantial $$.

Tegan
Jun. 29, 2010, 06:27 PM
What if daughter moves to a different apartment with lower rent? Can it be closer to work/barn so she will have less commuting time?

Having the horses at home is hard work and not conducive to more riding time.

That mobile home sounds awful, I wouldn't live there.
2 acres is awfully small to have a house, pasture, and room to ride.

SonnysMom
Jun. 30, 2010, 03:12 PM
I think you are being way too generous to pay $1,500 a month for her hobby because you are "too difficult".
I can understand why dad is telling her to sell the horses.

Can't you have a family sit down and figure out why exactly she if finding you/your husband are "difficult". Can you as a family work through these issues.
I have seen where the adult child has been living on their own for a few years. They move home to save money for a house down payment.
Parents go right back to the rules from when the child was in high school, such as curfew, grilling them on where they are going, when they will be home, parents stay up until child gets home at night. Picking on them about how they dress, what they eat, their body piercings etc...

Maybe it is time for everybody to compromise a little bit. DD bites the bullet and moves home. Mom & Dad make sure they are sensitive to the fact that DD is an Adult and is now used to the freedom of living on her own. DD starts paying towards her horses.
Maybe DD means being difficult is that she isn't allowed to leave her dirty dishes on the table for you or DH to clean up or that she isn't allowed to have have loud wild parties at the house every weekend. If that is the case then I have no suggestions.

Its sounds like at this point the only one compromising is you and your husband. You are spending your hard earned money for your adult daughter hobby so that she can board her horses in what soundls like a pretty expensive facility and live in a pretty expensive really posh condo.

I have made many sacrifices to have my horses but moving into a 30 year old moble home would not have been one of them.
Also if the renter is paying utilities on the MH then that $1,000 per month savings may be eaten up in utilities.

I also find that doing self-care or keeping them at home, especially the first year, there isn't quite the savings that I imagined.
Simple things such as needing to buy a wheelbarrow, shavings/pitch fork, muck tub, water buckets, grain bins/trash cans, water trough. Depending on the type of barn the horses are currently at may keep things like ACE, banamine, other first aid stuff that DD now may need to purchase to have on hand.

Generally I have found that when I price out hay and grain and other expected monthly upkeep items there isn't that much of a savings compared to boarding at a basic barn.
Many times a big boarding barn can get better hay, grain, shavings prices since they can purchase in bulk or directly from the field.
If you don't own a truck will you pay for delivery of hay on top of the hay price.
Does the lease fee include the mowing of the fields? If not, do you have a tractor to do it. Do you have to pay for manure pile removal or can it be left to compost? What about basic horse wear & tear repairs- who pays for those? (Broken stall boards, fencing repair) Does DD already own a comprehensive tool box to be able to do these repairs or is that another expense?

I also find I have known a few people that move their horses home and don't ride as much since they are too tired after working all day and then coming home to barn chores. They wind up with not realizing the savings they expected and ride less than expected. Maybe being able to look out their window and see their horses in their yard makes up for that. Most of the time they just seem too stressed to really appreciate that.

I don't mean to come across as harsh in the first part of my post but IMO DD is taking advantage of you and your husband's generosity in paying quite a bit of money to board her horses. I only know what you have written and maybe there are things I don't know that would change that perception.

SGray
Jun. 30, 2010, 05:02 PM
how about something like this
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/18010-Kleb_Hockley_TX_77447_1104866574

nothing little house but daughter could live in now and you and hubby could build what you want later

SGray
Jun. 30, 2010, 05:03 PM
or this
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/24610-Bauer-Hockley_Hockley_TX_77447_1117482356

SGray
Jun. 30, 2010, 05:07 PM
foreclosure
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/27715-Rice-Rd_Hockley_TX_77447_1119209119

Alagirl
Jul. 2, 2010, 11:10 AM
Buy her a Tshirt with 'John Deer' on it and a rake, problem solved.

HiddenAcres
Jul. 2, 2010, 11:18 AM
DD is wrong about the tractor/arena. She is not working that much with only 2 horses. You hand rake the spots that need it every day. You ask the neighbor to drag once a week, you borrow a riding mower or an ATV and make a drag out of large chain link and cinder blocks for weight. Does she honestly think that everyone has a $ 15K + tractor at home? Hire someone every 4 weeks. Ride in the damn pasture! I know TB has leg issues, but it's time to "own" that he's retired and a pleasure horse, not a show jumper.

Leave her home. You need a break. Her horses are her vacation and her grad school. This is how it is for most of us and we choose our horses. She needs to come up with solutions instead of just whining about the choices you're offering. Husband needs to quit making it worse by denying that the horses are family for life and make it work with DD at home to save money.

CatOnLap
Jul. 2, 2010, 12:21 PM
Lord I hate kids

Then why did you have them? You just want to come here and complain and then when real options are offered you say you can't because your threapist has labeled you as an enabler? Good grief. Grow a spine. $1500 a month to pay for someone else's horses? will you adopt me? I promise I will never be difficult.

I like the John Deere hat and a rake idea too. jesus on a pogostick, I have had up to 7 horses on 2 acres for 20 years and never had a tractor until last year. My mare pulled the arena drag and I hand raked the edges.

There is plenty of room on 2 acres for a barn, a full size riding ring and several paddocks. Although I own over 3 acres, the first acre is forest and residential lot and orchard, and the back two are where the horses live. PLENTY OF ROOM. You will need to buy hay, but at about $100/month per horse for hay, grain and shavings, its a lot cheaper than boarding at $500/month. Stall cleaning takes about 45 minutes. If DD can't do that, then:

Euth the 18 year old horse with four suspensory tears. He is not going to improve as he gets older. It will be a kindness to do it while he still has good function instead of waiting for him to be hobbling around and unable to rise from a roll.

Sell the others.

Your daughter will have a hairy snit, no doubt, but she will eventually get over it. OH BTW- she ain't a kid anyway.

SGray
Jul. 2, 2010, 04:22 PM
now is the perfect time to look at places -- you'll see how they handle water

SGray
Jul. 2, 2010, 06:05 PM
http://houston.craigslist.org/grd/1822367910.html

Horse boarding available on Telge Rd. at Grant. No pasture board...all horses have a stall. Prices starting at $125 to $350 depending on your needs. Stalls with large paddocks available. Horses fed twice daily. Beautiful coastal hay available. Large open pasture where the horses socialize, exercise and play. Arena will be finished this month. Vet and farrier barn calls. Deposit equal to 1 month stall only fee. Coggins required.

there's another option

Snaffle81
Jul. 5, 2010, 02:10 AM
...

SonnysMom - Not harsh at all. I think we both realize "daughter is holding us hostage financially with the damn horses" as husband rants. I unfortunately am an enabler (per my therapist) and usually find in impossible to put my foot down with either kid.

As an enabler I've never been one to put harsh house rules on the kids (though I have sat up waiting to hear them come in before I could sleep but not one of those "sitting in the living room and ambushing them - just lying awake until you hear the garage door shut). We've always allowed friends, parties (without illegal substances). Living like a pig I do comment on - nothing like dirty dishes on every surface to piss you off. I don't search rooms...I'm an ENABLER for Chrissake!!! Not sure what her issue is with Me though dad bitches and gives orders and ultimatums.

I'm so annoyed with daughter I want to leave her home when I head for a beach vacation with son and dh. Found a nice house with 10 acres and arena. Daughter says "Sounds good but if they don't have a tractor to drag the arena I can't use it". Spoiled little monster (though of my own making). While son is a screw-up sometimes and appears to be on the 7 year plan at college he is still sweet and at least acts grateful for what we do for him).

Lord I hate kids.

Oh goodness gracious.... DD needs a dose of reality! Life isn't cheap or easy. It comes with choices. What does she want more - her horses cared for the way she wants in exchange she lives at home? Or is living at home so terrible that she would sacrifice her horses and sell the sellable one(s)? Until she earns enough money to support herself it's really not up to her!! Horses are NOT a right, they're a LUXURY!!

I think allowing kids to have these attitudes is why the young twenty-somethings are known as the "me" generation. They have such a sense of entitlement it makes me want to barf!!!

Time to get tough with DD!!! Life is too short to spend it on a therapist's couch when the problem is forking out $$$ for DD.

poltroon
Jul. 5, 2010, 02:40 AM
And I am just stunned by the homes for sale and rent that I'm seeing. Homes trying to sell for $180,000 (which isn't very high) but they make no effort to clean up the place for photos. Kitchens are so filled with stuff you can't see counters or appliances, living rooms with junk everywhere, yards with piles of "stuff" and falling down out barns and garages. Who sells a house like that?

If you're looking for a bargain, that's exactly what you look for - sellers who can't be bothered to do the simple stuff.

But all this said... this sounds to me like your daughter's problem to solve, not yours. She doesn't want to live with you, fine, but maybe that means she has to give up something else she wants.

I agree with everyone else that renting a 30 yo mobile home on a fixer property will not most likely go well. The electric bills could easily be $500 a month to heat it and run the well. Buy, yes, rent, no.

everafterfarm
Jul. 5, 2010, 10:57 AM
I was in a similar situation as you except it was just me, no daughter or kids for that matter, and my hubby. Had 3 horses boarded new to the area, so we had been renting a small house. We decided to try and find a place we could rent for us and the horses to try and save money. Had a really hard time finding much, like you found, places nice for horses bad for people, or vice versa. So we started to call reality companies and talk to realtors to see what they had for rent. We were not looking to buy and weren't really prepared to either, but 2 months later we were the OWNERS of a cute small farm(10 acres) and a house that does need work, but it was nothing major like mold and leaky roof or anything, just paint and flooring and such. I was willing to sacrifice a bit on the house since this place had good horse facility already up, but I wouldn't have been able to handle a 30yr old mobile home either. Ours is a brick ranch, so my advice is call some companies and see what they have. There are always listings for rent or sale that you can't find on your own! Good luck!!!!

anchodavis
Jul. 5, 2010, 11:29 AM
I lived in a lot of awful places when I was young and poor, including a disgusting mobile home, my tent, and my car! I didn't care because I was never home anyways. When you're young and can deal is the time to do it. If she's horse-crazy, she's never going to be inside anyhow, and it sounds like a great set-up for the horses. She might also be able to work out a deal with the landlords to do some cosmetic fixes, etc. in exchange for the rent? Or have them do it in exchange for a longer lease? Personally, 2 acres would drive me more nuts - not much room to ride.

MistyBlue
Jul. 5, 2010, 11:59 AM
You aren;t doing daughter or family any favors.
You enabling is tough enough on you...but it's going to screw your daugher up royally. She'll never be happy because she'll always expect more an never do anything on her own.
And your other child and husband are dealing with the fallout of you creating and enabling a codependent entitled person who gets it all while they deal with what's left.

The best thing you can do for your daughter is to cut her loose into Adult World. Tough love. There's a reasons birds push the young out of the nest. :winkgrin:

She sinks or swims on her own. She'll probably holler a lot at first. Don't throw any life preservers. She'll figure it out and in the end will be much happier having done it on her own. True horse fanatics do what they have to do to become pros or stay involved in horses.

After a short time everyone will probably be happier. Hubby will have less reason to yell, daughter will finally become an adult and son will have more of your attention to boot his butt off the 7 year college plan. Which will make him happier once he gets his tuckus in gear and learns how adults are supposed to be doing things.

All of which in turn will make you more relaxed and happy (and not living in a money sucking leaky trailer) which will hopefully mean less therapy. ;)

A win/win/win/win. :yes:

You can do this! Would you let a horse walk all over you? Don't let your kids do it either. Because much like a horse without ground manners, nobody will want young adults without them either. (and son is passively doing the same thing daughter is doing aggressively BTW)

JanM
Jul. 5, 2010, 01:13 PM
Misty is exactly right. Both kids need to grow up now, because someday they'll have to when you're either broke or gone and it's horrible to grow up at 50 years old. I've actually known people that didn't have to grow up and be adults until their late 40's or 50's and it has been ridiculous. You aren't doing any favors for the kids or for yourself.

Alagirl
Jul. 5, 2010, 02:31 PM
I really have to agree with Misty Blue, too.

My dearest sister was one of them people who never grew up. She never lived farther than 15-30 minutes from either parent, always hit both of them up for money: I am buying a new saddle, you chip something in? I have not made it to the bank, can you loan me some money...
she never paid anything back, since age three my niece was full time at my mother's, or at my dad's and yet, my sister was never happy.

She was a gifted rider, shrewd business woman, attractive (make that pretty ;) ), smart, witty if she wanted to, just never happy.


All things are worth more when we earn them.

Mozart
Jul. 5, 2010, 04:38 PM
How old is daughter? Working? Going to school?

I dunno, seems to me it should be your daughter trying to figure out a solution and not you.

joiedevie99
Jul. 5, 2010, 04:43 PM
Seriously- you aren't doing the kid any favors by being an enabler- you're just preventing her from growing up- which she desperately needs. If you can't listen hubby, go see a therapist and get some help working through this. She needs to learn about making choices.

Coanteen
Jul. 5, 2010, 05:08 PM
You're using the enabler label as an excuse now: I can't do anything about this! I'm an enabler!

So realizing that you're an enabler and spineless where your DD's insane demands are concerned, how about this: all DD's money-related things now go through your husband. You don't get involved, you don't criticize, you don't go to bat on her behalf. Lay down some ground rules at the very beginning, like "no forced sale of the elderly broken horse, but he could be put into cheaper retirement board if needed", and let non-enabling hubby deal with it.

ToiRider
Jul. 5, 2010, 05:13 PM
Found a nice house with 10 acres and arena. Daughter says "Sounds good but if they don't have a tractor to drag the arena I can't use it". Spoiled little monster (though of my own making).

Wow. Yeah. I read your original post a day or two ago, so I don't remember all the details, but you are being way too nice to your daughter.

I just bought my own farm a year ago AT 47 years of age, although I grew up on a working farm, so I had an idea of what I was getting into. I haven't ridden my horse in a year. I brought him home and got him a beautiful Arab mare on the giveaway forum, and they are very happy. I am very happy too, but usually dirty and tired as well. There is a heck of a lot to do in working full time while getting a farm together and safe for horses. I honestly don't think your daughter is up to it. Sorry if that sounds mean, but she can take that up with me.

As far as dragging the arena, she is going to have to buy a riding lawnmower. She can go to tractor supply, like I did, and buy a small drag harrow to pull behind the lawn tractor. Not only will she need to drag her arena, but she will need to drag each and every square inch of the pastures as well, because the harrow will pick up old fenceposts and wire laying in the grass. She will have to mow the fields closely and then WALK THEM carefully (not just the fenceline), looking for holes and hazards. That is just a start of what she will have to do, and honestly it just doesn't sound like she is up to it.

I have spent the last year exhausted and dirty, but happy. I do get that incredible feeling from having my horses in the back yard, and it is worth it to me. Both horses are happy, my dogs are happy, the cats are happy, and they all watch ME and ONLY ME do all the work.

I would find a pasture board situation for the permanently injured horse (no more than $300/mo), stop paying board for the healthy horse, let your daughter worry about whether she can afford her fancy condo and board, then plant your foot squarely in your daughter's @ss and apply force until she is launched out on her own. Close the door, stop answering the phone and let her learn how to deal. YOU ARE NOT DOING HER ANY FAVORS RIGHT NOW. Just my two cents.

thatmoody
Jul. 5, 2010, 05:41 PM
I really have to agree with Misty Blue, too.

My dearest sister was one of them people who never grew up. She never lived farther than 15-30 minutes from either parent, always hit both of them up for money: I am buying a new saddle, you chip something in? I have not made it to the bank, can you loan me some money...
she never paid anything back, since age three my niece was full time at my mother's, or at my dad's and yet, my sister was never happy.

She was a gifted rider, shrewd business woman, attractive (make that pretty ;) ), smart, witty if she wanted to, just never happy.


All things are worth more when we earn them.

Mine too, and when my mom died my sister's life totally fell apart. Because all of that stopped - the attention, the handouts, everything. It was awful to watch.

CoolMeadows
Jul. 5, 2010, 06:04 PM
I agree with ToiRider. It doesn't sound at all like your daughter will be able to maintain a small farm. I forget to eat some days after dealing ith 18ish acres, 9 horses, job and life in general. No tractor for the drag? Come on, hook something up to a Jeep, ask a neighbor for help, use the lawnmower. There are a million and ten things that have to be done. HAVE to be. Nobody cares if it's hard or if you don't feel great or stayed out late the night before. She's too ready with the excuses.

If you want to save about $1000 a month, and you should want to, then I think you'd be really generous to find a nice retirement situation for the old guy and let her figure out how to pay for her riding horse. You save money, no horses have to go, husband is happier and daughter hopefully launches. Let her throw a tantrum over it, just continue to explain it in black and white terms. "This is what we can afford. We're going to continue covering expenses on Mr. Retiree up to $X/month for you, but need you to take over expenses on your Show Pony."

I bet you could find a very nice retirement place for $500/month, leaving you your $1000/month in savings and no one has to buy any more expensive equipment or fill their days with more work.

ToiRider
Jul. 5, 2010, 06:24 PM
I bet you could find a very nice retirement place for $500/month, leaving you your $1000/month in savings and no one has to buy any more expensive equipment or fill their days with more work.

He can come live at my house for $500 month, LOL! He would have his own stall, his own lush pasture with pond, and I would brush him every day and hand scratch all his itchies for $500 month!! In fact, I will serve him his grain on a silver tray!! Where the heck do you people live, that it costs that much to retire a horse? I guess I am really fortune to be in an affordable area (KY) with plenty of beautiful pasture and a (usually) great climate.

CoolMeadows makes a great point about not feeling well and still having to do things. I got the stomach flu for two weeks this winter (brought by Christmas visitors, no thank you very much). I was so ill my parents didn't leave to go back to MI when they planned to, but they eventually had to leave. I had to go feed and clean the barn while wondering if I would make it back to the house in time to use the restroom. I was so weak that I had to sit on a bench and rest part way through chores and rest again before I walked the short way back to the house. There wasn't anybody but me to do it, and you can't stop taking care of the animals. Having your own farm is a HUGE responsibility.

Rhyadawn
Jul. 5, 2010, 09:46 PM
This just made me angry. You are NOT doing her any favours. She needs to grow up. YOU are paying for her hobby? And this has been going on for how long? She's an adult with a job. Working 8 hour days 5 days a week and paying $900 a month for her condo. Where is the rest of her $$ going?

Maybe it's time to look into cheaper board. Or maybe it's time for her to own up to herself and how she percieves how she *needs* to live.

Lazy Palomino Hunter
Jul. 6, 2010, 11:02 AM
ProzacPuppy-

I'm 23 years old. I'm a full time graduate student. My stipend is an amount that would qualify me for food stamps (although my tuition remission counts as "pay," so I don't technically qualify). With the exception of my health insurance (which graciously paid by my parents due to the fact that my premium is several hundred dollars a month as a result of an injury I had a few years ago), I support myself.

I live in a tiny, crappy, shoebox of an apartment. I pinch pennies wherever I can. I eat a lot of ramen. Some months I have to hold my breath and cross my fingers that I will be able to pay my rent and other bills. Occasionally I have to borrow a little bit from my parents to get a bill in on time, but I always pay them back as soon as possible.

Sure, it sucks. But do you know what? It's okay. For a substantial chunk of people, this is what being in their 20s is about. For anyone who was not fortunate enough to be born into wealth, their 20s are about learning to make their way in the world. Learning how to make a living, learning how to live on a budget, learning how to climb the career ladder so they can get to a place that allows them to support themselves.

Do I miss riding? Hell yes. Do I leech off my parents so that I can ride? Hell no. My parents financially supported me for 20 years, paid for me to go to college, and are still there to emotionally support me. They've done their job, and now it's time for me to become a productive member of society. And I'm doing my best. And riding will be that much more appreciated when I finally get back in the saddle.

Your daughter is never going to learn those skills if you continue to support her.

If I'm being honest, it's mind boggling that you're the one looking for places for her. I've moved twice since starting grad school, and both times I basically told my parents that I was moving and that was it. I searched online, I called landlords and visited potential apartments, I paid my moving expenses, I rented a trunk, I loaded it with the help of friends who I paid in pizza.

A label your therapist gave you should not be preventing you from helping your daughter. Frankly, if your therapist is enabling YOUR behavior by telling you that you can't help but enable your daughter... you should get a new therapist, because this one isn't worth anything at all.

You don't have to throw your daughter out on the street. Sit her down and tell her you want to help her become an adult. Explain that she needs to work with you to come up with a plan to lower expenses and work toward becoming independent. Don't let her say no, but instead ask her to step up to the plate and take initiative in planning out her own life so she won't be dependent on Mommy and Daddy forever. Maybe the plan will be for a 3 month period, maybe a 6 month period, maybe a year. But she sounds perfectly capable. You just need to stand up to her and behave like the adult you are.

Rhyadawn
Jul. 6, 2010, 02:29 PM
Daughter has always been a "fun kid":rolleyes:. Years ago her doc told us she may "never fully mainstream" whatever that means though it sounds ominous to me.

Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophesy to me. Gives her the out she needs to not be a grown up and everyone else a reason to let her.

As far as the new property you looked at it could probably work, just needs reseeding and upkeep. Check out what is going on with the neighbors and ask their oppinions. Make sure that you can have horses there, that it won't cause problems. Nothing quite like being told you are being evicted because of neighbor complaints....

LuvMyTB
Jul. 6, 2010, 03:18 PM
The doctor told you she "may never fully mainstream" and you didn't ask what that meant? Mainstreaming is usually a term used for learning-disabled or otherwise physically/mentally handicapped or ill children.

Good luck to you, your husband, your son, your daughter, her boyfriend and the horses. I think you're all gonna need it.

WaningMoon
Jul. 6, 2010, 04:04 PM
Wow, wow, wow! And to think my parents didn't even believe in helping kids establish credit, get a first car, nothing. But this is way too far, in my opinion anyhow. I mean, jeez, where is the end. I think it might do her good to live in that trailer for a while. I sure had to live in one on the farm. Frozen water till spring. Newborn having to wear snowsuit inside. That may not be wha tmost have to do. BUT.. this girl is living a very posh life, ON YOU.

Coanteen
Jul. 6, 2010, 09:22 PM
Oh LOL. Your daughter's doctor told you something that might have implications for her future, and your understanding of that is "whatever that means". If she is disabled to the point of being unable to support herself, she should go back to the doc and start applying for disability.

But of course she is able to work, she may have a learning disability or some other minor thing. She's using the non-"diagnosis" to leech off of you, you're using your label of "enabler" to allow it, and truly this is hilarious. She'll never learn to be independent, and you may slowly go broke :)

If I was hubby I'd catch a clue and leave though.

mustangtrailrider
Jul. 6, 2010, 09:41 PM
It is situations like these that make me thankful that I am able to support myself and have parents that literally gave me wings and taught me to fly. LOL....getting my pilot's license at 16.

I am so glad that my parent's gave me independence at an early age. It was a wonderful thing.

My first husband was an only child. His parents were divorced and didn't teach him independence. He lived off of them or me. That is why he is an ex.

You are doing your child no service by providing for her future. Without an accurate diagnosis and prognosis of her condition as well as yours, you are doing her, her spouse (future), her children, and yourself, a huge disservice.

The questions you are asking and the story you are sharing with us don't add up. Simple questions we can answer, but this drama is muddying the waters and at this point, no one really cares! LOL....it keeps getting better and better.

Will you adopt me! No, I will support myself, thank you very much!

Trakehner
Jul. 6, 2010, 09:52 PM
I'm sorry, daughter sounds like a spoiled selfish brat. I really feel sorry for Prozacpuppy, he doesn't deserve this.

Tell the daughter she's on her own in 90 days, it's up to her to decide what horse to keep and figure out how to keep it on her salary.

Take the money saved and have a nice life.

Alagirl
Jul. 7, 2010, 11:14 AM
Well, DD's medical condition affects this subject in a perifial manner.

'Not Mainstream' can mean so many things, but considering I have seen severally mentally retarded people after years of institutionalazion be turned into folks able to manage their daily affairs in a semi independent way, 'not mainstream' should have no problems.

There is tough love and there is tough love. you don't have to throw her out on the curb, but aid her in severally prune the budget.

Once you get to a certain age some things are just a luxury you can't expect your parents to pay for forever. Heaven forbid you or your husband would be hit with some sort of tragedy.
How will the bills be covered if you are not there to pick them up?

That time can be just around the corner, I kid you not.

dmalbone
Jul. 7, 2010, 12:35 PM
Wow... I've skimmed through this thread and am so freaking confused. Of COURSE it matters why your daughter will not be fully mainstream or whatever it was. I'm pretty sure most people were wondering why the hell you were even paying her horse board nonetheless shopping for and renting a horse property for her. That reads as insanely spoiled and just, well... absurd especially following your rants about how you hate kids and listing all of the things wrong. Why rent a property or pay money? If her "medical condition" is quantifiable and there's some sort of justification to it other than "we take care of our own" then I think it would help people understand your situation and maybe sympathize a bit more. BF is 28 but I don't think I ever caught an age on your daughter. You take care of her, you want her to marry BF because he takes care of her, why have you not taught her to take care of herself!? I'm so confused so I'm hoping I missed something along the way...

poltroon
Jul. 7, 2010, 01:27 PM
Problem is the 3.5 acre pasture is mostly weeds and mown grass and we're not sure why. Renter now doesn't have horses and before him they put cattle on it for that ag exemption. Is it possible the cattle destroyed it enough that there is no pasture? And how hard would it be for us to make some nice pasture?

Owner lives across the street and has said they will till the place with their tractor. We've got some barn help we know to come out and help spread some RoundUp type stuff to kill the weeds first and then help reseed the whole place. How long can we reasonably expect to wait for grass to show up so we can put the horses out on it?

Where I live "weeds and mown grass" pretty much IS pasture, so I'm not sure exactly what you are saying.

There are others more expert than me, but I would NOT till it - which will destroy all the root structure holding the ground together. I would simply overseed it, perhaps add fertilizer/compost, and address any weeds that are noxious. IME, if you till it and seed it, you'll need to let it grow in for nearly a year before it's strong enough to withstand horses walking and eating on it.

Note that with many of the worst weeds, tilling them will make them more prevalent in the future.

poltroon
Jul. 7, 2010, 01:33 PM
If you are worried about your daughter having the capacity to manage her own affairs, I would be worried about her managing horses at home alone while working full time. It's a lot of physical work at the most inconvenient times and it requires a lot of thinking ahead and thinking on your feet. It sounds like you'll have to decide if that's a problem for her and her abilities.

ToiRider
Jul. 7, 2010, 01:43 PM
Where I live "weeds and mown grass" pretty much IS pasture, so I'm not sure exactly what you are saying.

There are others more expert than me, but I would NOT till it - which will destroy all the root structure holding the ground together. I would simply overseed it, perhaps add fertilizer/compost, and address any weeds that are noxious. IME, if you till it and seed it, you'll need to let it grow in for nearly a year before it's strong enough to withstand horses walking and eating on it.

Note that with many of the worst weeds, tilling them will make them more prevalent in the future.


I agree completely. I would leave it alone except to fertilize and overseed it. Let it grow for 3 weeks or so before you put the horses on it, and then let them have at it. I have a lovely pasture that looks like a mowed lawn (at least from a distance) after I cut it. It also has its fair share of weeds. I overseeded with rye this spring, and I will do that again this fall with winter rye. That worked well to fill in any spots the horses had worn out by running in it during the winter.

Question: You keep saying we, and you haven't addressed the issue of your daughter having to do this on her own. It sounds like you are planning on you and/or Mr. Prozacpuppy being the farm hands. Is that what your thinking? Are you really wanting to do that?

I am going to be honest here that there are so many people giving you good advice, and it seems to be flowing over you rather than sinking in. I'm not going to post anymore, as it seems to be a waste of time. She's your daughter, and you can enable her and screw her up any way you want to.

kdow
Jul. 7, 2010, 02:05 PM
Once you get to a certain age some things are just a luxury you can't expect your parents to pay for forever. Heaven forbid you or your husband would be hit with some sort of tragedy.
How will the bills be covered if you are not there to pick them up?

That time can be just around the corner, I kid you not.

As tough as it is to think about, this is a very good point. Accidents happen, health problems spring up without warning, you just never know.

I appreciate wanting to help family - heck, I have no room to talk since I'm living with my parents right now while I go to college to finish my degree as I can't work enough hours to pay for an apartment AND go to school full-time due to health problems of my own - but you're not doing anyone any favors if there's no way the situation can be reasonably self-sustaining if you and your husband aren't around to make money.

Now, it might be that you can set up some sort of trust that would continue to pay for her rent and give her a cushion, or whatever, but the point is you should be thinking in those terms and making the legal arrangements NOW just in case, if she really has so much trouble that it will be an issue. (My cousin is severely disabled mentally and physically, and although it was very tough for my aunt and uncle to think about, they've already done this - they have their will and all of the paperwork in order, and various people are informed of where the information is and what their plans are so my cousin's care can be continued while long term arrangements are made.)

Trixie
Jul. 7, 2010, 04:41 PM
OP, YOU were irritated with her, and YOU called her spoiled.

FWIW, I have horses that show also, and I have a tiny grass arena that works just fine. I'm not far from your daughter's age and my parents don't pay for my horses or my house, and I'm in a very high cost of living area. It didn't kill me. I have a savings account, am reasonably financially secure (by not living above my means or carrying debt), and am not reliant on a man to support me.

There is nothing wrong with giving your kids gifts, but there's a difference between rewarding and enabling.

I hope she's aware of how much work actually goes into this. With the horses at home (or self care board) it's frequently many hours of work for even an hour or two of riding.

mustangtrailrider
Jul. 7, 2010, 06:59 PM
OP, go back and read all of your posts. Read them from our perspective. You would understand our responses and concerns.

You told us she was spoilt. You told us that she thought the place was too small, not nice enough, the ground was too hard, soft, etc. You asked us for advice. We gave it to you.

You didn't like our responses. Now you are mad at us....Not fair.



Overseed, fertilize, limit turnout until the grass is grown in. Mow. You will be fine.

Good Luck in your personal life, you need it.

Everyone has "issues". Everyone has medical idiosyncrasies that make their life interesting. Most of us just pick up our baggage and move on. We try not to make our problems everyone's.

Some people use the diagnosis as an excuse, some use it as a motivator.

Yeah, I could be "disabled" if I wanted to be. My husband could as well. We choose to work and be responsible, productive members of society.

My brother is barely able to keep his life strings attached to reality. He is off in left field most of the time. He is out there every day working his heiny off. He has his moments, but he is the hardest worker I know.

Good Luck.

jawa
Jul. 7, 2010, 09:12 PM
I spent several years scraping by on whatever my meager budget was. (840$ net was a good month) I heated with a wood stove, I had take out pizza once a month, I paid my house payment (210$, yes it was a major fixer upper, but was mine), I had a window unit in my bedroom only (and only on at night), no cable (when a storm damaged my antenna I went from 10 channels to 2), no cell phone, no internet. And that was not that long ago (12 years ago). I was able to feed, clothe, and house myself, my horse, my dog and cat AND my son!! Life was hard.

Life is much easier now. And I am enjoying the fruits of some very hard labor. But the important lesson learned is that I know I can live with less and still be happy. And that I can do things on my own (plumbing, electrical, framing, dry wall, farm management). I learned enough by doing and watching that I know now if I'm being screwed when I pay for something to be done. What a boost to self esteem and confidence. Think about giving your child the GIFT of truly becoming an adult. It can be hard, I know, I have a soon to be 21 year old. I would love for him to not struggle and make mistakes, but its through those mistakes that he will learn and grow into the wonderful man I know he will be.

As far as your daughter and the properties, she should be the main point person for all of the discussions. She should be doing the research, looking, finding people to help fix up the property (with your advice to guide her). She is of age and you are allowing her to have an opinion and she's putting her hard earned money into it, then she should have some "skin in the game".

Trakehner
Jul. 7, 2010, 09:34 PM
So basically, the post should be: I'm spoiled, my daughter's spoiled, we're paying the bills for her horses and life is good!

To which we'd all have not made comments, you wouldn't have gotten defensive (e.g. I don't know why I'm defending my family etc. etc. etc,) and the world would have continued rotating.

Coanteen
Jul. 7, 2010, 09:47 PM
Sure,

some parents enjoy giving to their children,
but you said your husband

gripes every time he sees her to sell or give away the horses.
So in your marriage is it the "parents" who enjoy supporting her hobby, or the "parent"?

Also remember, we're only reacting to what you told us. Such as that your son, who you presumably also enjoy spoiling to some extent,

is still sweet and at least acts grateful for what we do for him.

So you'll continue funding your daughter's hobbies, good for her. And good for you, since you enjoy it. Probably not so good for your hubby from what you yourself, unprompted, told us here.

But it still sounds hilariously dysfunctional. So, does your daughter's vague medical non-mainstreaming cause her non-gratefulness too, or is that all nurture?

cajunbelle
Jul. 7, 2010, 10:31 PM
What happens when your daughter gets married, are you still going to be paying the bills?
You seem great at helping your daughter achieve happiness, at the expense and comfort of everyone else.:(
If these horses are your idea, don't throw the rest of your family "Under The Bus"!

Trakehner
Jul. 8, 2010, 09:32 AM
What happens when your daughter gets married, are you still going to be paying the bills?
You seem great at helping your daughter achieve happiness, at the expense and comfort of everyone else.:(
If these horses are your idea, don't throw the rest of your family "Under The Bus"!

Most families (especially fathers where it comes to sons) like to see their children become self-sufficient adults. Needy is ugly at any age.

I have a friend whose grandmother always paid for her daughter's horse (even now that her daughter is 50+)...the grandmother paid for her horse too until she finished college, got a decent job and she recently told her grandmother, "I appreciated your gift, but I can pay for my own horses now".

Which is the adult? Just because someone is willing to keep their kid a child is no reason for them to keep breastfeeding on mom. I come from a wealthy family and I always had to work some-way-shape-or-form to help pay for my horses or other hobbies. It's more fun being an adult, it's not easier, but it is more fun.

dmalbone
Jul. 8, 2010, 01:05 PM
Had a post but I blew it away.

Taking the 6 acre property, already planning and hiring the folks to put up fences, put in a wash rack in the small barn, put in a security system for the house and barn.

Do I hate kids. You bet on certain days.

My kids will be fine even if husband and I were to bite it. There are wills, family trusts, yada yada.

As for the advice on how to teach my kids life's lessons - I don't feel the need to purposely make them scrape and sweat and scrounge for a few years to teach them a lesson in life. When I was first married we did that scrounge/scrape stuff because we wanted to prove that we were grown up and independent. But after watching my dad help one brother buy a New Jersey beach house and buying the other brother a new car every couple years we got over all that.

Life's pretty sweet now.

Bye

Ohhhhhhh. DUH! :: palmface:: I GET IT! This whole post was to be an AW and tell the world how great your life is, how you want for nothing, and how rich you and your entire family are. That's fantastic. Have a wonderful life, but don't start a post and talk about your wealth, trust funds, etc. in every reply. Tacky. You would think your prep school would have taught you that. :rolleyes: If your life is so easy and privileged, then pony up for a better property for your schnookums so you won't have to make these hard decisions. I mean, after all, it's obvious you can afford it.

dmalbone
Jul. 8, 2010, 01:08 PM
...and this?


Do I hate kids. You bet on certain days.

I'm really glad you are some stranger on the internet and not someone who said this to my face. Sounds all around like you'd be happier and your horse problem would be solved had you not reproduced, huh?

SGray
Jul. 8, 2010, 01:12 PM
..........
Now, about that field of oats....Yea or nay for turning out?

I know oat hay is commonly fed in the west but I just don't know the answer to turning them out on a pasture of growing oats -- I'd ask Tamara or the like

I would certainly, if the turnout was said to be okay, acclimate the horses to it gradually since it would be a new addition to their systems

poltroon
Jul. 8, 2010, 01:29 PM
I know oat hay is commonly fed in the west but I just don't know the answer to turning them out on a pasture of growing oats -- I'd ask Tamara or the like

I would certainly, if the turnout was said to be okay, acclimate the horses to it gradually since it would be a new addition to their systems

Yeah, same reaction here.

It's only half an acre so it's not going to last long. And the age of the oats would matter too, I expect.

If it were me, I'd probably put them on it an hour a day until they decimated it... which would probably take about two weeks.

WaningMoon
Jul. 8, 2010, 04:04 PM
Had a post but I blew it away.

Taking the 6 acre property, already planning and hiring the folks to put up fences, put in a wash rack in the small barn, put in a security system for the house and barn.

Do I hate kids. You bet on certain days.

My kids will be fine even if husband and I were to bite it. There are wills, family trusts, yada yada.

As for the advice on how to teach my kids life's lessons - I don't feel the need to purposely make them scrape and sweat and scrounge for a few years to teach them a lesson in life. When I was first married we did that scrounge/scrape stuff because we wanted to prove that we were grown up and independent. But after watching my dad help one brother buy a New Jersey beach house and buying the other brother a new car every couple years we got over all that.

Life's pretty sweet now.

Bye

Had my 21 and 24 yr old daughters read this thread and they both said they are very glad we ARE who we are. They both said they feel as if they are WAY ahead of your daughter and are proud of the job I did raising them. One is putting herself through college and the older one has just this last yr bought her own home. I live on VERY little, less than you could possibly imagine. No car, I rent, and due to my spine disability am confined to the property except for a very few times a yr. And if my parents would have wanted to help I would not have taken it. I may be 50 and have nothing, but, Yup, I am very glad I am who I am.

MY kids DO appreciate everything they have. Yours never will.