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Reynard Ridge
May. 25, 2005, 06:57 AM
I'm posting this on the eventing board because I'm hoping I will find the fewest people who will try to rip me a new one http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

But, I love to click open photos of people and their horses in the CoTH forum. I LIKE to see ordinary people riding, particularly people who are so happy sharing their best moments.

But when I click one open and someone is NOT WEARING A HELMET, ARRGGHHH!!! Totally freaks me out - my knees get weak and my stomach coils in knots, seriously.

And then, I close the link and BACK AWAY FROM THE THREAD. Whew. I have had some close calls where I just desparately wanted to say "AND WHERE IS YOUR APPROVED HELMET, GIRLFRIEND???" But I don't.

So here is that thread. Dedicated to all who ride with the wind in their hair: GOOD LUCK AND GOD BLESS! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Edited to add this thread. An actual good reason why you should not wear your helmet http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5566064631/m/809200166 - poisoned by the very thing that is supposed to save you!

Reynard Ridge
May. 25, 2005, 06:57 AM
I'm posting this on the eventing board because I'm hoping I will find the fewest people who will try to rip me a new one http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

But, I love to click open photos of people and their horses in the CoTH forum. I LIKE to see ordinary people riding, particularly people who are so happy sharing their best moments.

But when I click one open and someone is NOT WEARING A HELMET, ARRGGHHH!!! Totally freaks me out - my knees get weak and my stomach coils in knots, seriously.

And then, I close the link and BACK AWAY FROM THE THREAD. Whew. I have had some close calls where I just desparately wanted to say "AND WHERE IS YOUR APPROVED HELMET, GIRLFRIEND???" But I don't.

So here is that thread. Dedicated to all who ride with the wind in their hair: GOOD LUCK AND GOD BLESS! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Edited to add this thread. An actual good reason why you should not wear your helmet http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5566064631/m/809200166 - poisoned by the very thing that is supposed to save you!

Noctis
May. 25, 2005, 07:15 AM
Huzzah RR, glad you said something. As a proud survivor of equestrian related traumatic head injury (and 2 mo in the hospital...yuck), I freak out when people aren't wearing an approved helmet. i LIKE my head whole...and like other people's that way too!

flypony74
May. 25, 2005, 07:26 AM
When I was horse shopping, I looked at many photos of horses, via email and on sale ads. Occasionally I would see a rider jumping without a helmet. After a moment of cringing, I typically passed on the horse, because I kind of felt that if they didn't care enough to take care of themselves, maybe that carried over into the care and training of the horse. Not quite the explanation I was trying to get across, but you know what I mean. Seemed to be a reflection of lackadasical horsemanship. Not saying it IS in every case, but to a die-hard helmet wearer, that is my personal perception.

paintedsportponies
May. 25, 2005, 07:30 AM
I was getting on a horse when I realized that I had forgotten my helmet. I ALMOST got on anyway (longtime western background)...
by the grace of God, I went back to the tack room and got my helmet.

Not only did that horse buck me off but I was kicked square in the head with a lot of force...the helmet saved my life.

I now show that dented helmet to every child and adult rider I can. It was a cheaper light helmet that I wore for schooling. I replaced it with a Charles Owens... taking no chances in the future!

Cathy

Dale Area 1
May. 25, 2005, 07:40 AM
RR -- Totally agree http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

I still can not believe that people will ride without an approved ASTM helmet?

I better stop before I say something I might regret http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Barnfairy
May. 25, 2005, 07:46 AM
It really only bothers me to see children riding without a helmet. As much as I think it is dangerous and a bad example for adults to ride without an approved helmet, hey, if they want to risk death or living in a permanent vegetative state, who am I to stop them?

This from someone who lives in a state where it is still legal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.

New Hampshire: live free and die.

NMS
May. 25, 2005, 07:47 AM
RR-as a past exercise rider I cannot imagine the wind in my hair, it would scare the heck out of me.

One thought that always crosses my mind when I see those photos is "how irresponsible". In my case, if I were to get hurt it would place a burden directly on the people I love. Imagine having to rely on them to do the things I could not--take care of horses, farm, job, CANTER, etc. Not to mention the emotional trauma. Just so not worth it.

Nancy

CluesGirl
May. 25, 2005, 09:52 AM
flypony -

I always thought the opposite. I would never be caught dead (no pun intended!) jumping without a helmet...but then again I have never had a completely trustworthy jumper.

When I was horse-shopping, I always thought -- Gee, if that person is jumping this horse without a helmet, that horse must be pretty honest!

Now in my wiser, care-about-my-noggin-more years, the helmet goes on before horsie even goes to cross ties!!

oldbutnotdead
May. 25, 2005, 09:56 AM
I ride without a helmet. I ski without a helmet. I also have a small red converible that my firefighter friends call "the red coffin." I eat butter, cheese, and red meat. I keep a loaded handgun next to me. And I've had "unprotected" sex in the distant past.

I am probably going to slip in the shower and die.

Reynard Ridge
May. 25, 2005, 10:04 AM
oldbutnotdead, yet, bet you are a hoot at parties http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif!

A bit off topic, but issue raised by aforementioned poster, I was seriously considering buying a Miata, oh, about one marriage and two children ago. I was heading out to go car shopping and slammed into a deer. It bounced off the hood, slid up the windshield and over the roof!

I got a Ford Escape instead http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Fence2Fence
May. 25, 2005, 10:10 AM
Riding without a helmet stricks me as being very arrogant. "Stupid" is generally what I think, especially when it comes to jumping w/o gear.

But I sincerely feel that it is a person's choice and respect that choice. I hope they fully realize the consequences of such a choice.

Bogie
May. 25, 2005, 10:11 AM
When I was about 16 I was in a jumping lesson without a helmet http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif. That summer I was riding a junior jumper and we were schooling around 3'9". My regular trainer walked down the the ring, ripped me a new one for the lack of helmet and had me put one one.

15 minutes later, I got a bit ahead of my horse and he tripped coming off a fence and went down. I was soooo glad I was wearing that helmet! It was a good lesson that has stayed with me. I've never gotten on a horse without a helmet since.

Lori T
May. 25, 2005, 10:39 AM
As a teen, I sometimes rode in a helmet, then at some point I smartened up and always rode in one (not sure what happened to make me do so), but wouldn't use one that had a harness...I hate the harness. However, several years ago, we watched the movie "Everytime, Every Ride" at a pony club meeting. I immediately went to the tack store and bought a helmet with a harness and threw away my non-approved helmet.
Two years ago, my daughter was riding one of her trainer's horses. I was in the barn talking, thinking she was in her lesson. Her trainer thought she was still in the barn, taking forever to tack up. Ten minutes later I walked out of the barn to watch the lesson only to encounter my daughter walking the horse towards me. When she approached me, she wanted to know where she was and what had happened to her. It turns out, that while mounting this normally quiet event horse, he took off before she was in the saddle. She was thrown to the ground and was knocked unconscious for 10 minutes... and nobody knew it! Luckily she suffered only a mild concussion with short term memory loss (just for a day or 2). If she had not been wearing a helmet, who knows what could have happened.

Lori T
http://www.calypsofarm.piczo.com

Ride'emCO
May. 25, 2005, 10:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I cannot imagine the wind in my hair, it would scare the heck out of me </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I feel the same way, and didn't know I did until the other day. A friend and I were going to ride, and I mentioned I didn't have my helmet with me, what was I going to do? She suggested I not worry about it, and just ride without. My stomach, seriously, did a flip. I don't think I have ridden without a helmet in over 15 years, I just can't do it.

PiedPiper
May. 25, 2005, 11:10 AM
Or what I love is people who wear helmets but leave the chin strap dangling! What the fruitbat is that!?! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I mean, come on, what is the point of the helmet then.

Can't say that I haven't ridden without my helmet but after having a horse rear up and flip on me and now with my greenie I appreciate keeping my head intact. Shoot, it is all I can do to keep my wits about me on a good day! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Not sure if I am in the helmet nazi boat since to me, to each their own for an adult, but do roll my eyes at the fashion comments. Can't say someone is making the best fashion statement with wind blown hair. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Can only think of a few supermodels that come out looking better that way! For me, well, let's just say I look like a cross between seeing a VERY scary movie and a rat's nest. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Rivendell Horses
May. 25, 2005, 11:12 AM
I am with you 100%. i yell at my friends who don't wear one.

3 years ago i had a horse spook on me on the trails and run me into a tree. With the helmet on i had a bad concussion. 5 days in the hospital (emergency rooms are not fun) and a month later i was all good.

Then last week i had a horse i had in for training (he left on sunday) that fell out of under me. I hit the ground hard. I think i had a mild concussion after that as well. Very glad i am of my helmet. I wear it always. (granted i do have a pic of me on my pony without one...on my website....but that was a while ago and isn't getting repeated. lol.)

Jen
http://www.rivendellhorsefarm.com

Flatbroke Farms
May. 25, 2005, 11:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oldbutnotdead:
I ride without a helmet. I ski without a helmet. I also have a small red converible that my firefighter friends call "the red coffin." I eat butter, cheese, and red meat. I keep a loaded handgun next to me. And I've had "unprotected" sex in the distant past.

I am probably going to slip in the shower and die. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen oldbutnotdead.

My first car was a Mazda Miata. I started driving it when I was fifteen. Alone. I loved that little car! My dad just bought another one just like it because he loved mine so much.

rebeginner
May. 25, 2005, 11:21 AM
What a coincidence that this thread has begun 4 days after I took delivery of a Miata. As I was driving out to volunteer at a schooling show last weekend (wind in my hair), I actually asked myself, should I be wearing a helmet? After all, I never ride without a helmet, and I never ride faster than 20 mph or so (between XC fences). So why should I be squatting 18" off the road surface going 70+ mph without a helmet? And should I wear my Tipperary vest?

PiedPiper
May. 25, 2005, 11:24 AM
rebeginner- I would love to see THAT in the car next to me at a light! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Eclectic Horseman
May. 25, 2005, 11:26 AM
Reynard Ridge-
Why does it bother you so much what other people do? Have you ever examined THAT?

I mean how do you feel when you see fat people? Or people who smoke? Or, god forbid, people WITHOUT THEIR SEATBELTS ON!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

OH, THE HORROR!

jetjocky
May. 25, 2005, 11:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rebeginner:
What a coincidence that this thread has begun 4 days after I took delivery of a Miata. As I was driving out to volunteer at a schooling show last weekend (wind in my hair), I actually asked myself, should I be wearing a helmet? After all, I never ride without a helmet, and I never ride faster than 20 mph or so (between XC fences). So why should I be squatting 18" off the road surface going 70+ mph without a helmet? And should I wear my Tipperary vest? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent point!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

When I was young and foolish I used to ride without a helmet, but a summer galloping racehorses changed my ways. I, too, don't think I've ridden bare-headed for a good 15 years or so.

Reynard Ridge
May. 25, 2005, 12:04 PM
Eclectic Horseman,
Dunno. Maybe that is one reason I started this thread? It is such a visceral reaction when I see a helmetless rider! I don't want to pick on anyone in particular, 'cause let's face it, it's none of my business.

But it really makes me feel scared to see people riding without helmets!

And, yeah, I do have an emotional reaction when I see people who are severely overweight, or smoking or really, really drunk or anything that makes me afraid that they are hurting (or are going to hurt themselves). I guess because I worry that they are going to hurt themselves.

But, live and let live! I also really do in my heart of hearts want a convertable!! I'm just too scared now! I will have to live vicariously through the rest of you!

Magnolia
May. 25, 2005, 12:12 PM
Approved helmets are a newish thing, and change is slow. People jumped without helmets for hundreds of years before approved helmets came along.

I think eventers are the most safety conscious crowd, but HJ people aren't as focused on safety - maybe there is a perception that jumping a dead broke 3' hunter is always a safe bet.

Reynard, I think its great that you care about other people's health and safety. I guess I've met enough jerks that when I see someone speeding in a car or smoking ciggies that I silently hope Darwin steps in.

Eclectic Horseman
May. 25, 2005, 12:16 PM
Reynard Ridge-
Maybe that's it! ENVY!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Hey, loosen up, live a little. You don't want to die in a nursing home, do ya?

*FoxFire*
May. 25, 2005, 12:24 PM
Where's deltawave on this one. I love her quote in her Siggy, "If you think your hair is more important than your head, your probably right!"

Windsor
May. 25, 2005, 12:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rebeginner:
What a coincidence that this thread has begun 4 days after I took delivery of a Miata. As I was driving out to volunteer at a schooling show last weekend (wind in my hair), I actually asked myself, should I be wearing a helmet? After all, I never ride without a helmet, and I never ride faster than 20 mph or so (between XC fences). So why should I be squatting 18" off the road surface going 70+ mph without a helmet? And should I wear my Tipperary vest? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, unless you find a really unusual Miata, you have a reasonable expectation that a loud noise will not make it bolt suddently and violently sideways with you, buck you out of your seat or rear up and fall over backward with you. Nor should it accelerate suddenly just as you open the door and step in. In the event that your Miata does do any of the first three things, your seatbeat should keep you in the "saddle" until you can return the car to the dealer, or turn it over to a cowboy and write a strongly worded letter to Mazda. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Seriously, though, your point is well taken and reminds me of jockey Jack Kanael, who rode Aloma's Ruler to a Preakness Stakes win back in 1982, if memory serves. I remember more than one media mention that he'd been in a car accident not long before the race (maybe a week before) and been wearing a helmet in the car at the time, which supposedly saved his life or helped minimize his injuries.

kcrubin
May. 25, 2005, 12:35 PM
I had a red Miata and I loved it!! What a great car! In a period of two years I had three people crash into me. Once I was in the Miata (I was parked, not my fault.) Twice I was in my truck. Both those were crashes were into my side - one a vehicle on ice out of control, one a motorcyclist knocked his cycle out of gear in a parking lot and shot into the road and into my truck and trailer. I got too scared to drive the Miata anymore and sold it. All were unavoidable accidents and not caused by me - I loved the car but . . . Oh and I always wear my helmet. Once I forgot it and was jumping through some nearby fields and thought "wow, the wind in my hair feels so good!" Then I thought - WIND IN MY HAIR, WIND IN MY HAIR - I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO FEEL WIND IN MY HAIR - AIIIGGHHH I'M NOT WEARING A HELMET!
I had to jump 2 more fences to get home and I was so happy nothing happened!

Bogie
May. 25, 2005, 12:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eclectic Horseman:
Reynard Ridge-
Maybe that's it! ENVY!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Hey, loosen up, live a little. You don't want to die in a nursing home, do ya? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, since my grandparents are both 99 and living in an apartment fully able to care for themselves, I intend to keep my helmet firmly fastened. I need all the brain cells I have left and anticipate living a long life!

I don't tell other adults whether they should wear approved helmets (and on the hunt field, some of the worst offenders, the ones who fall off the most frequently, seem to be the ones wearing 'items of apparel' with no straps whatsoever.) However, I cringe when I see trainers riding without helmets, or see helmetless riders in equine publications as I think it sends a bad message to young riders.

asterix
May. 25, 2005, 12:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eclectic Horseman:

Hey, loosen up, live a little. You don't want to die in a nursing home, do ya? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gotta say I feel my chances of doing this would be INCREASED by not wearing a helmet...though I might be 42 and not 92 when it happens... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

After trying to understand the discussions on the H/J board about the new rule, and trying to understand why everyone I know owns an approved helmet that fits just fine and everyone the folks on those threads know can't find an approved helmet that fits and claim their unapproveds therefore are safer...
I give up!!!

I'm glad it's not an issue in eventing.

KellyS
May. 25, 2005, 01:08 PM
Let me just say that I completely agree with you asterix! It gets very tiring reading the endless discussions, and dare I say whining, from people who for one reason or another do not want to wear an approved helmet (whether flatting or jumping). It is very refreshing to read a thread like this. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

It only takes one bad accident to make one realize what a difference they can make, and it also only takes one bad accident to suffer a life-threatening or life-changing injury. Why take that chance? Heck, you can still suffer a traumatic injury while wearing an approved helmet, but at least the odds of preventing permanent damage and surviving are drastically increased in your favor.

In regards to seat belts, my husband is a police officer and traffic accident reconstructionist. He has said on so many occasions that a seat belt would have saved someone's life. Yes, wearing a helmet or seat belt may be a personal decision, but as someone who has made numerous death notifications, he will tell you that these decisions do deeply affect those who love you. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Robby Johnson
May. 25, 2005, 01:34 PM
http://www.peter-wylde.com

So, like, if you were GPA and sponsored a rider, and saw him riding sans helmet in most of his promotional photographs, how would you feel?

Robby

*FoxFire*
May. 25, 2005, 01:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robby Johnson:
http://www.peter-wylde.com

So, like, if you were GPA and sponsored a rider, and saw him riding sans helmet in most of his promotional photographs, how would you feel?

Robby </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like Goodbye sponsorship!
Your given these helmets and your not even wearing one! Hmmm sounds crazy to me.

deltawave
May. 25, 2005, 01:56 PM
Here I am! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It's nice to read this thread and re-affirm my admiration for eventers as sensible, good horsepeople. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Sure, I'm all for freedom of choice, too--but when one's "freedom" involves taking chances that might ruin not only THAT person's life, but the lives of everyone that depends on them, I think it's pitiful and selfish to exercise one's "freedom" by refusing to something as ridiculously simple as putting on a freakin' HELMET. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Don't care what happens to you? FINE. Sign a release stating you won't make society responsible for your long-term nursing home care, or better yet--declare that in the event of a devastating injury you become an instant organ donor. Your brains might be worthless (and I daresay they weren't worth much beforehand if you chose to not wear a helmet because it makes you hot or looks funny--waaaaah!--but that is the original "helmet Nazi" talking) but we could sure use your kidneys, heart, liver... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Be original, be yourself: get a tattoo, dance naked, make a fool of yourself, but why express your "freedom of choice" in such a silly way as not wearing a helmet??

Wojjie
May. 25, 2005, 02:06 PM
When I see photos of folks riding without helmet (or the real thing) I don't get a physicl response, but I think Oh, that looks strange! What is it about this picture that looks funny......Oh! No helmet. Boy that looks weird.

AND Good Point, Robby.
CWP

class
May. 25, 2005, 02:45 PM
i'm sure all of the helmet nazis are height/weight proportionate right? i'm thinking we should try to make a difference with what is really draining our health care system. how does this sound?



Sure, I'm all for freedom of choice, too--but when one's "freedom" involves taking chances that might ruin not only THAT person's life, but the lives of everyone that depends on them, I think it's pitiful and selfish to exercise one's "freedom" by refusing to stop eating and get some freakin' EXERCISE. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Don't care what happens to you? FINE. Sign a release stating you won't make society responsible for your long-term nursing home care, or better yet--declare that in the event of a stroke you become an instant organ donor. Your brains might be worthless (and I daresay they weren't worth much beforehand if you chose to not maintain a normal weight because it makes you too hot to exercise and it's hard --waaaaah!--but that is the original "fat Nazi" talking) too bad we probably can't even salvage your kidneys, heart, liver... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Risk-Averse Rider
May. 25, 2005, 03:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bogie:
However, I cringe when I see trainers riding without helmets, or see helmetless riders in equine publications as I think it sends a bad message to young riders. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You betchum, Red Rider!

Both of my trainers will ride without helmets (on the flat only, at least) in the summer when it's hot. A couple of the adult riders at the barn do the same. So what message does this send the kids who look up to these people? "Once I'm old enough, I won't have to wear a stupid helmet, either."

I'm betting that few kids would look at an overweight, out-of-shape adult and think similar thoughts (although we all know about kids wanting to be "cool" and smoking).

asterix
May. 25, 2005, 03:42 PM
class, I see you are relatively new to this forum, so it might be that you don't know that deltawave is a doc, and a cardiologist to boot.

I am sort of looking forward to her response to your post.

doctormolley
May. 25, 2005, 04:52 PM
Having spent my younger years as a member of the local Pony Club, I wouldn't even think of sitting on my horse w/o my helmet on. My old helmet has a crack in it from the time my mare dumped me onto the frozen ground and I landed on my back and then my head slammed onto the ground. I had an enormous headache and my vision was blurred for a while after. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

deltawave
May. 25, 2005, 04:58 PM
Hey, I'm all for the complete banning of fast food, cigarettes, and maybe even alcohol, too. But I prefer to live in a place called the real world. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I enjoy a drink every now and then, so I wouldn't want to style myself a hypocrite, but I do my drinking responsibly. I ride my horse responsibly by wearing a helmet and not taking dumb chances...although some might argue that jumping a horse over XC fences is "taking a chance".

The reality is that I'd like to kick a good number of overweight people in the butt and tell them to get a grip, but the other side of the reality is that a lot of people have an extremely tough time of it for a million and one reasons. Strapping a helmet on one's head takes half a second. Making a lifestyle change is a little tougher, and I'd be the last one to adopt some sort of "holier than thou" attitude about it. Yeah, I'm proportional, but I'm no saint about my eating/exercise habits. So I'll leave the casting of stones to only the perfect physical specimens out there. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Pol
May. 25, 2005, 05:11 PM
I spent 30 years riding in a hunt cap. 16 years ago, my best friend (my vet, a pony clubber/pony racer/event rider) gave me her 3 year old homebred TB. As she handed me the lead shank, with the horse attached, she looked me in the eye and said, "If I ever HEAR of you getting on this horse without a certified helmet, I will take him right back." In the past 16 years, I have never gotten on any horse without a certified helmet, chinstrap done up. I am now a certified helmet nazi.
In December, 2003, I was wearing my new Charles Owen crash hat and had a fluke, non-riding wreck in my barnyard. I hit the frozen ground and was knocked OUT. The mailman found me in a heap, out cold. Most likely I'd be dead or worse if I had not kept that helmet on AFTER my ride!
RR, why don't you post this question on H/J and see what responses you get. I'll bet they'll be a little different!
Robby- Peter and I grew up riding together, with same attitudes about hard hats. My wise vet/friend was also Peter's vet, until he left the US-too bad she didn't put the fear of God into him too!

sophie
May. 25, 2005, 05:34 PM
I used to not wear a helmet when I was young...we had to wear them in lessons but schooling on my own, even jumping x-country, I never did wear one (nevermind a vest LOL). I was very lucky not to crash then. I was young and irresponsible, fearless, I trusted my horse, and jumped quite big, too.

Now I am older, a wife and mother, and I almost always wear my certified helmet. The ONE time I forgot to bring it to the barn last year and rode anyways, my green 4 yo promptly bucked me off in the field. Soft landing and bless this agile little mare, she managed not to step on me http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
I still need to remember to bring/wear my vest when schooling x-country.

I am slooowly growing up I guess!!

tbredrider
May. 25, 2005, 05:55 PM
I am sitting here totally biting my nails reading this, I have just moved to a new barn, (not sure yet if I like it or not) and well it is a lot of pleasure riders. Which is fine, but NO ONE wears a friggin helmet. Kids are jumping with out helmets. And the really great part is none of these people can ride their way out of a paper bag. I cringe, knowing the accidents I have been in on horseback. I just do not get why on earth you'd let a child ride let alone jump bareback. SCARY!

Reynard Ridge
May. 25, 2005, 06:31 PM
I'd be as likely to take this thread to the H/J forum as I would be to ride without an approved helmet. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I'm still not quite sure what the point of this thread really was. Other than I was feeling really sad about some otherwise cool photos. Maybe I was looking for kindred souls? The good news is that I found 'em!

And not only have I found kindred souls who are freaked out by photos of riders without helmets, I've found kindred souls freaked out by MIATA's! Only on CoTH, people!

The whole Peter Wylde thing is just weird. Why would you dis your sponsor? But certainly an interesting tangental discussion. I personally think it warrants its own thread.

eventable
May. 25, 2005, 06:42 PM
I wonder if GPA would consider sponsoring me - I would faithfully promise to always have my picture taken wearing it, as well as wearing it for every ride...

LaddiePony
May. 25, 2005, 07:58 PM
I, too, think decisions like these are up to us and that no one should tell us what we have to do. So when I talk to the people with whom I ride - friends, students (helmets required in lessons, but when we go on a trail ride, I don't have much say!), etc. - I just tell them what happened to me.

I was all about riding with the wind in my hair. I jumped on my pony ALL THE TIME in the pasture, galloped him around over big ole cross-country fences not only helmetless, but bareback and with no more than a halter and leadrope on him. (Smart, huh?!). Boy was that fun!! Until the day I jumped on one of the horses, bareback with a halter, to bring him back up the the barn, and the next thing I knew, I was going in for emergency neurosurgery and literally near death. Apparently the horse bolted and tried to jump a 5' gate with me still riding but couldn't quite make it. I spent the most miserable, painful days of my life in that hospital - I am a VERY tough person but I can hardly think about it without getting sick to my stomach - thinking about how all of it could have been avoided if I hadn't been such an arrogant fool. I hurt so many people - you realize how many friends you have when something like that happens - and all the time think about the consequences of my actions. What if I hadn't been so lucky? My poor pony, who had seen it all happen, literally came off his feed and would hardly leave the corner of his stall (even though he had access to 20 acres of pasture and woods) out of worry, bless his sweet little heart...I don't know that he would have ever come out of it if I hadn't been back out to the barn to see him.

And he didn't even get to go win his championships that fall!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I came out of it all with plates and screws in my head and the understanding that if I ever hit my head hard enough again with nothing to protect it, I could die, just like that. I also realize I could walk across the street and get hit by a truck, too, but I figure I at least owe it to my friends, family, horses, and yes, myself, to at least look both ways before I cross the street.

-Kelsey
*Laddy's girl forever!*

Meredith Clark
May. 25, 2005, 08:30 PM
I heart my helmet no argument there..even when i showed western pleasure way back when i'd be the only kid in the ring with a approved helmet. I'm very thankful to have had a trainer that was a helmet nazi, i remember watching the video with the "jello brains" being dropped without and then with the helmet...icky!! I never got to participate in pony club but i'm really happy that 4-H has finally started inforcing the helmet rule. Although you can only feel helpless when they ride in their class then walk out of the ring, toss their helmet to their mom and go riding back to their trailer http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Can someone tell me the Peter Wylde story? i can sorta put it together from the comments, but i like to be informed

Fence2Fence
May. 26, 2005, 06:31 AM
I didn't think of this when I originally posted, but I was riding one of my trainer's horses they other day. We were schooling in a field, and our figure eight took us underneath a tree. I didn't think of having a "clearance" problem, but the horse I was riding is a good hand taller than mine. I realized at the last minute I was going to hit my head on a branch. I ducked too late, and completely "rung my bell." I bit my tongue and had imprints of my teeth on my tongue for hours afterward. I almost saw stars, and had an immediate head/neck/back ache. Thankfully, the branch didn't unseat me.

If I didn't have a helmet on, that tree branch would have cracked my head wide open, and easily given me a concussion... if the fall didn't!

I wasn't jumping and I didn't even fall, and the horse was behaving perfectly but the helmet prevented a very nasty accident.

I felt one of those cartoon characters who hit their head and see stars while their head vibrates back and forth!

Hidden
May. 26, 2005, 06:37 AM
I am with everyone else.. a helmet is just to simple to not do. If we were planning to have accidents - well it wouldn't be an accident. These are unplanned and not always' about jumping. I read in PH about a woman who was sitting on her older quiet horse watching a lesson in the ring and the horse was snoozing. The horse took a small balancing step back and ended up flipping down a small drainage ditch.. also ditching the rider - who was very glad she had on the helmet. Everyone has stories.. and not everyone will believe something could happen to them. But hey .. what can you do?

Magnolia
May. 26, 2005, 06:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The whole Peter Wylde thing is just weird. Why would you dis your sponsor? But certainly an interesting tangental discussion. I personally think it warrants its own thread. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know why they bother sponsoring a hunter rider period. GPA's are very much the preferred approved headgear for hunter riders. Actually, it is always kind of funny to hear some junior hunter complain that the GPA doesn't fit and is too expensive.... as if there aren't 50 other options to choose from. It's not like eventing where people may choose from a range of options.

War Admiral
May. 26, 2005, 06:41 AM
I am FAR from a card-carrying member of the Helmet Nazi clique (I'm involved in two disciplines, saddle seat and carriage pleasure driving, where you really *can't* wear them in the show ring, so I've had to learn to deal...), BUT: I have to admit it shocks me a good bit, boarding at an eventing barn, and watching really good young riders go off for an XC or steeplechase school without helmets. On OTTBs. Really, people, jumping solid XC obstacles helmetless does seem to be asking for it just a wee bit.

Oh, and just an FYI from bitter personal experience - if you ride thru the woods, do NOT get a cheapo approved schooling helmet that has the big vents in front. I nearly got hanged by mine when it got stuck in a branch when the horse bolted! Spend the xtra bucks and get something decent!

Robby Johnson
May. 26, 2005, 06:44 AM
Peter Wylde is an incredibly successful jumper rider, not a hunter rider. He rode Fein Cera in the WEG in 2002, as well as at Athens.

He is a serious jumper contender - very worthy of helmet sponsorship - but the lack of helmets in promotional photographs is somewhat disheartening. Unless their contract says, "you must wear the GPA when you are jumping, but not flatting" (which it very well may) I do think it's irresponsible to ignore sponsors in promotional photographs.

But I still think he's a hottie and love love love what he does with the horses!

Robby

Bensmom
May. 26, 2005, 07:27 AM
RR -- I think I understand where you are coming from with this thread. I will not ride without my helmet, and Robby, at one point, I had intended to keep the new CO for shows, but thought, you know, I'm more likely to bust my head at *home* and there is no reason not to wear the one that fits best! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif So, when I just went on a hack in Ocala on Tuesday, I may have looked a bit out of place in it, but I decided I didn't care. Really glad I had it on too, when the unfamiliar horse I was on bucked his way sideways up a hill! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

In any event, as I'm really the only one at my barn presently, and my insurance policy requires wearing a helmet, I never think twice about it. I have been stunned lately though, to look around and see when I ride elsewhere that I may be the *only* one with a hat on.

It just strikes me as weird. Florida has just recently passed a law allowing motorcyclists to ride without a helmet and the fact that anyone would do that is just beyond weird.

Anytime I see people riding in just a baseball cap or bareheaded, it just looks odd. I guess I need to get out more! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

I dunno -- I've hit my head, a lot, always in a certified helmet and always when I wasn't expecting it, both on the flat and jumping.

I also spent a very long 24 days when I was at an impressionable young age (20 or so, I think) watching someone I loved rotate on a bed in the Neuro ICU unit. That was from drinking and driving, but if you've ever waited for someone you love to wake up like that, you'll never forget it. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

I can't prevent a freak accident from taking me out, but putting my helmet on is easy, even if it is HOT and miserable.

Libby (who owns more helmets than any other item of tack, well, except galloping boots!)

Ride'emCO
May. 26, 2005, 07:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And not only have I found kindred souls who are freaked out by photos of riders without helmets, I've found kindred souls freaked out by MIATA's! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Talking Trauma (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=Vb6oR7XBxe&isbn=1578060435&TXT=Y&itm=8)

I had to read parts of this book for an American Folklore class at GMU. There is a story in there about 2 men who were riding in a convertible down the California Coastal Highway, and flipped the car. The paramedic said it looked like someone had taken 2 pencil erasers down the hill. That did it for me. &lt;shudder&gt;

Miss Maddie
May. 26, 2005, 08:23 AM
As far as event riders being better than other disciplines, I have to say that someone posted some pics of riders schooling on the flat during Rolex and it seemed like pretty much all of them were wearing unapproved helmets. I was surprised by that! Who is even looking then?

And wearing a non-approved helmet (I mean the ones with no chin strap) doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I mean, it messes up your hair and I don't think they are any more attractive than the approved ones. What I think is really odd are the riders that jump their stadium round in their approved helmet, and then change to their unapproved one for the victory lap. I mean, why bother?

I always wear my helmet. for some reason it seems like almost every time I fall I hit my head hard, and I don't like pain. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

mellsmom
May. 26, 2005, 08:30 AM
I too am a helmet nazi. And here's why. I KNOW what a head injury can do to a person. My brother has one. It was gotten in a car accident. He was a national merit finalist before the accident. Now he's marginally employed, which is exceptional considering the severity of his injury. So, to those that ride without a helmet I say fine, go ahead, but just remember that I will NOT come to your horse and wipe the drool off your face because you can't do it for yourself anymore. And you may not ride without a helmet on my property. It's a barn rule. I don't want to feel guilty about your inability to earn a living after an accident on my property. It is your right to conduct your life a you want, however, when on other people's property, you should act according to their wishes (or stay home).
And as someone who drives over 100 miles a day, I think people who don't wear a seatbelt are crazy too. But I don't pull them over and tell them so.

Perfect Pony
May. 26, 2005, 08:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Miss Maddie:
As far as event riders being better than other disciplines, I have to say that someone posted some pics of riders schooling on the flat during Rolex and it seemed like pretty much all of them were wearing unapproved helmets. I was surprised by that! Who is even looking then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I have experienced this. I don't think event riders are at all different. Most of the people I know that NEVER wear helmets are advanced level event riders. One which rode in the Atlanta Olympics. The only time they wear a helmet os when they are FORCED to, that is CC schooling, and at shows.

I don't know when I started riding in a helmet, but I can tell you until my mid-20s I never rode in one unless forced to by the rules at a show, at college, or at the track. Lately, most facilities I have ridden at require helmets, and I have gotten into the habit and now would dream of riding without an approved helmet. But this came about gradually as I was more and more forced into it, then just became practice, and now I have lost my nerve a bit and am finally concerned enough about my safety to care.

Ja Da Dee
May. 26, 2005, 08:47 AM
I ride with a helmet always. I didn't growing up, but I grew up riding with cowboys and never even saw a helmet until I was about 23. I do ride at a saddle seat barn (Morgans and Saddlebreds) and I rarely see a helmet. One green adult rider wears one, she took a nasty tumble over the winter and her head got steped on, she's happy she had her helmet on. Also a few of the youngest riders wear them. Most people do not. I do cringe when I see some of the Jr riders riding the SS Powder Kegs without helmets. I was discussing helmets with the Saddlebred trainer one day, he says that he wished they were more common in his sport.

He also mentioned he receintly saw a G'pa riding a QH down the side of the road with a 2 year old on the saddle in front of him. The horse spooked onto the road, G'pa almost fell off with the child, a large truck had to swerve to miss them and narrowly missed another car. No helmets on G'pa or the youngster. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Irresponsible.

lizathenag
May. 26, 2005, 09:04 AM
perhaps we could use a term other than nazi?
just a thought.

Irish Ei's
May. 26, 2005, 09:25 AM
NAH...I'm thinking Nazi is the correct term.....undeterred, single-minded,,driven..I-who-was-seen-publicly-hauling-my-adult-daughter-off-a-horse-in-front-of-her-Boss-and-clients....
Nazi works for me..

Lisamarie8
May. 26, 2005, 09:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deltawave:
Hey, I'm all for the complete banning of ... and maybe even alcohol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DW, thems fighting words. Don't make me beat you with my approved helmet. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Magnolia
May. 26, 2005, 09:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Peter Wylde is an incredibly successful jumper rider, not a hunter rider. He rode Fein Cera in the WEG in 2002, as well as at Athens. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gah, I was thinking Peter Pletcher.... who I've never seen a photo of in an approved helmet, so I was like WTF, why is he a spokesperson? Carry on.....

Kim
May. 26, 2005, 10:09 AM
Count me in on this one!

I personally knew someone who went on a trail ride (a WALK, actually) without a helmet (she was a lifelong rider), fell, hit her head on a rock, and died instantly - at 26 years old. I will never ride without a a helmet - honestly, I think it is a selfish thing to do. It's the others in your life who will be most affected if you die or become a vegetable. You likely won't even know it!

There was a discussion about this recently on a local board, as the "photo contest winner" was a young woman galloping her horse without a helmet. Not a good example to set, IMO. I think professionals also have to set an example for kids - I do not think photos should appear in publications featuring folks riding without helmets. Just my opinion.

Mudroom2
May. 26, 2005, 11:01 AM
The Cincinnati Business Courier had an article last week regarding the issue of motorcyclists and helmets. That group also argues the "personal choice" issue, but the study showed that the public (meaning yours and my tax dollars and insurance dollars) absorbed significant amounts as a result of their "personal choice". Here are some excerpts:



Head injuries in unhelmeted motorcycle accidents can cost $226,000 to treat -- almost four times more than caring for those injured while wearing a helmet, according to a study by two neurotrauma specialists at University Hospital.

"Is it personal choice when taxpayers foot the bill?" Shutter asked.

Indeed, those injured without helmets also are more likely to be uninsured. At University Hospital, 17 percent of 2004 motorcycle injury patients did not have insurance, and 8 percent were on Medicare or Medicaid.

Nationally, 50 percent of people involved in motorcycle crashes are uninsured, and the government covers most of their medical expenses, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Narayan and Shutter want people to understand that helmets save lives. Of those patients who came to the emergency room after a cycle accident with a helmet, 81 percent went home, compared to 60 percent for those not wearing helmets.

"One hundred percent of head-injury patients are left with some residual disability," Shutter said. "It could be poor memory or it could be never waking up."


Results of helmet laws can be astounding. In California, when a helmet law was passed in 1998, hospital costs were lowered by 60 percent.

After Maryland weakened its helmet law in 2004, the state expected to spend an additional $750,000 in Medicaid costs for motorcycle injury patients in 2005. Maryland expects that figure to hit $1 million in four years.

Sing Mia Song
May. 26, 2005, 11:20 AM
Hi, my name is Sing Mia Song, and I'm a hunter rider. I might even be a hunter princess.

I used to drive a Screaming Green Honda Del Sol.

And I wear my helmet every single time.

Now, I will admit that I am something of a fashion maven. I bought a Charles Owen, but just love the skunk helmet look. The GPA was truly painful, so I got an ATH, which did fit blissfully well. That is, until I got bucked off last Saturday and landed on my head. I got my bell rung but GOOD. No concussion (or at least a very mild one) but here it is five days later and my head and neck are still killing me. I shudder to think what I'd feel like now if I hadn't been wearing a helmet.

As my husband the former motorcycle rider says: Your brain is such a cool organ. Too bad it comes in a really shitty carrying case.

Reynard Ridge
May. 26, 2005, 11:51 AM
I agree with lizthenag. Nazi, while in the common vernacular, does have such serious connotations I really don't like using it.

I'm not sure certified helmet 'ho is any better (but I really like Sing Mia Song's signature line!). If anyone has any better ideas, I would be happy to adopt them.

Scaramouch
May. 26, 2005, 05:03 PM
I haven't read through the whole thread, so I apologize if I'm restating, but has anyone seen this month's PH? There's a pic on pg. 39 of an 11 year old jumping a grey pony(it's an H/J article). Her helmet has slipped over her eyes and chances are it's far too large for her, plus the strap is so loose that I could fit my arm between it and her face and still have room! If the kid fell off the pony, the helmet would very likely fly off of her head before she hit the ground. If they're going to bother requiring helmets, for God's sake require decently fitted helmets! Her mother must have had a few too many falls in that no-strapped "item of apparel only"!

IFG
May. 26, 2005, 05:27 PM
Certified helmet every time every ride, but I am with Lizathenag and Reynard Ridge. Please use a word other than Nazi.

I like RR's "Certified Helmet Ho." Yes, that works quite nicely.

*FoxFire*
May. 26, 2005, 05:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

And he didn't even get to go win his championships that fall!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-Kelsey
*Laddy's girl forever!* </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So THAT is why you were not at paradise riding in Nov. of '03. I still remember you and buster and laddy too? at Farewell, and Tryon, then seeing you horseless at championships.

Scary! Glad your okay!

*FoxFire*
May. 26, 2005, 05:54 PM
Its a good thing for Pony Club. Dont even think about riding with out an approved helmet that FITS your head.

I have never fallen on my head, only my feet, but I dont dare risk the ONE day I ride with out a helmet. I WILL fall off.

I love my skull cap!

Irish Ei's
May. 26, 2005, 08:20 PM
Several years ago a Lovely Hunter rider eliminated after incredible trips...incorrect use of equipment...yep, chin strap hanging down over Stock....

Sannois
May. 27, 2005, 02:21 AM
I drive a Mitsubishi Turbo Spider! Only in the summer. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Its a convertible Cute as a bug, And fast as heck! BUT I told my husband . this car is a death trap! Cause if I ever Roll it.. Seee yaa!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif He told me to wear my Charles Owen when I drive it!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

riverpup
May. 27, 2005, 03:05 AM
Count me in as pro-helment too!

Sorry but I am having trouble envisioning the Proud Owner of the $700 Pony as a Nazi OR a Ho!

Here is my pre-coffee attempt to offer an alternative, apologies to any Rich James fans here on the board.

Sung to the tune of "Super Freak":

She's a helmet headed girl, the kind you take home to your mother
She will never let her guard down, when she’s ridin down the street
She likes to canter by the judge’s stand, she says that I'm her all-time favorite
When I make my move to her barn it's the right time,
She's very hard to please

That girl is pretty wild now (the girl's a helmet freak)
The kind of girl you read about (in Practical Horseman magazine)
That girl is pretty safety-minded (the girl's a helmet freak)
I really love to ride with her (every time we meet)
She's all right, she's all right, that girls all right with me, yeah, he-he-he
She's a helmet freak, helmet freak, she's helmet freaky, yeow
Everybody sing, helmet freak, helmet freak....

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Synrgystyk
May. 27, 2005, 04:14 AM
I'll admit to riding without a helmet ... about 30 or so years ago when they were the ever popular "items of apparel." Back when Pony Club Approved helmets came out I couldn't afford one, but my local tack store had a harness that could be strapped onto any helmet. Since I was into "gadgets" and "stuff" (anyone ever ridden with standing and running martingales at the same time?? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif disclaimer: I was 11 or 12 and no, my horse didn't need either) I happily strapped the harness on my unapproved helmet and wore it religiously.

While I continued to ride in my unapproved helmets, I also became more educated about helmet approval standards. (We're still talking early '80s here.) Finally, in college I got my first approved "mushroom" helmet (still have it).

Nowadays (and for the last decade or so) I never ride without an approved helmet. I LOFF my Tipperary! And, even though I've never hit my head in a fall, I'm well aware that roughly 20% of riding-related injuries are head injuries and most are severe (did my master's thesis on getting people to wear helmets). No one gets on my horse without an approved helmet. If I ever have my own property, no one will ride on it without an approved helmet. Just because I'm a paramedic doesn't mean I want to respond to a friend's emergent head injury.

As far as motorcycle helmets go (I've put nearly 11K miles on my bike since May of last year), I always wear a full-face SNELL-approved motorcycle helmet. Last week at Myrtle Beach Bike Week I was one of the *very* few bikers wearing a helmet. While I support an adult's right to choose, I cringe every time I see someone choose to go without.

Interestingly, Mr. Synrgystyk always buckles his seatbelt and wears a helmet on my horse (my rule). Unfortunately, the motorcycle helmet comes off the minute we cross into a state without a helmet law. (I'll have to admit that he looked pretty cool in SC last week with his bright red mohawk blowing in the wind. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif But I'd still have preferred him in a helmet.) I'm not sure that legislation is the answer but, as designated trip planner, I do try to plan our routes through states with helmet laws.

Lorree

Sannois
May. 27, 2005, 04:41 AM
UGH Think Dropping A WATERMELON off the bACK OF A TRUCK GOING 60!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

sdfarm
May. 27, 2005, 04:42 AM
When I was a young thing, say 13 or so, I was running a bit late for a lesson. I stopped my horse in front of a fence to mount and somewhere between the ground and the saddle she exploded.

Still to this day I don't remember what happened. I was drug around the ring and kicked in the head. I had a grand mal seizure before the ambulance got there, and had multiple contusions to my brain.

If I hadn't been wearing that helmet (which was completely demolished) , there's no doubt in those ER doc's minds that I'd have been a gonner!!

Thank goodness my mom was a helmet nazi, too.

Jleegriffith
May. 27, 2005, 05:02 AM
I was brought up as a ponyclubber but the thing that affected me the most was my mom's accident.
She was out riding in a field next to our farm without a helmet. She did this almost every day on her ottb. It was a really hot day and somehow she fell..or something happened but she doesn't know. She had almost every bone in her face crushed and lost so much blood she almost died. She managed to get up and walk down the road to our neighbors and promptly passed out on his yard. She barely made it. Can't remember a thing about that day. I was about 10yrs old at that time and since that day I #1 never ride alone. #2 always carry my cell phone on my body. #3 you won't catch me ever put one foot in the stirrup w/o a helmet on.
This winter my husband wanted to take a few pictures of me on my horse bareback w/o my helmet on. I said I will stand right here but I'm not moving and you better take them quick http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
I too ride with my vest on whenever I am trail riding or jumping or sitting on a green horse. I value my life and the people around me so I choose to make the right decisions.
I also will not teach anyone who rides w/o a helmet. I don't care if you an adult or not. I just won't do it.

IFG
May. 27, 2005, 06:18 AM
Thanks RR for changing the title. I liked "ho," but I can live with freak. Another option, given the awe with which we all seem to regard our helmets might be "disciple."

Risk-Averse Rider
May. 27, 2005, 07:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IFG:
Thanks RR for changing the title. I liked "ho," but I can live with freak. Another option, given the awe with which we all seem to regard our helmets might be "disciple." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>How about:

Helm-Evangelist?

flypony74
May. 27, 2005, 11:30 AM
After seeing my ankle bone sticking out the side of my leg after my fall in August, and realizing the amount of force that it took to break two bones that bad and in that many places (one chunk of the big bone broke completely off), it made me think what might have happened if that were my unprotected HEAD. As always, I was wearing my approved helmet...you won't ever catch me riding without it!

sophie
May. 27, 2005, 02:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I will never ride without a a helmet - honestly, I think it is a selfish thing to do. It's the others in your life who will be most affected if you die or become a vegetable. You likely won't even know it!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So very true. No one wants to be a burden for their loved ones. I'm not a helmet freak, but I do wear one for the above reason, mostly.

Perfect Pony
May. 27, 2005, 03:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sophie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I will never ride without a a helmet - honestly, I think it is a selfish thing to do. It's the others in your life who will be most affected if you die or become a vegetable. You likely won't even know it!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So very true. No one wants to be a burden for their loved ones. I'm not a helmet freak, but I do wear one for the above reason, mostly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand the spirit in which this comment is intended, but I for one get really sick of hearing people call others "selfish" for their actions when it doesn't go in-line with their beliefs.

Yeah a helmet will save some people in some instances in some crashes. But it becomes a slippery-slope. What about those who die WEARING a helmet and leave children behind? Some people would call them selfish too, I mean how can one event if they have children? It's so dangerous and selfish.

yeah there are degrees of everything, but lots of us do all kinds of things that put us at risk, and we all make our own individual decisions that we have to live with. A friend of mine was in a motorcycle accident wearing a skull cap, NOT an approved helmet and almost died and lives in a wheelchair. Now *I* personally would never ride a motorcycle without a helmet, and think it's a silly risk. All his friends who ride Harley's still ride w/o helmets, and none of them see the correlation.

I don't know, it just sort of touches a nerve sometimes when people make moral judgements about people's choices in life like that. I mean, where does it end?

sophie
May. 27, 2005, 04:49 PM
Have you been called "selfish" once too often PP? LOL.

I am not passing jugement (I am not the one who used the "offensive" adjective). I am just saying that if *I* end up in a wheelchair, *I* become a burden to my family, so I'd like to try and prevent that from happening. Hence the helmet and the vest. But as you say, there are no absolutes, since I do event, and I do have children...

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinions. Even the one who used the word "selfish".

Perfect Pony
May. 27, 2005, 06:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sophie:
Have you been called "selfish" once too often PP? LOL. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes actually, although not for putting myself at risk. But, I have been called selfish for NOT having kids, and selfish for owning a horse, and motorcycles, and other hobbies.

I also remember the woman who died on Everest being called selfish for mountain climbing and being a mother.

The only way to make 99% sure you wont become a burden is to wrap yourself in bubble wrap and never leave the house. Oh, and never take a shower either.

We can only do our best given our wants, needs, desires and knowledge. I'd like to think that no one wants to become brain dead and a burden on their family. But in almost ever case where it happens, we can always look back and ask, "what if...?"

Finnegan
May. 28, 2005, 08:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnfairy:
This from someone who lives in a state where it is still legal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.

New Hampshire: live free and die. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you have them to thank for the greater abundance to donor organs. In CA we have had a decline in number donor organs since we enforced the motorcycle helmet law.

~Bev

Pol
May. 28, 2005, 09:04 AM
Holy smokes, Bev, that is creepy, eh?

pharmgirl
May. 28, 2005, 09:17 AM
I heard the same thing has happened since the seat belt laws were created.

Sannois
May. 28, 2005, 09:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I understand the spirit in which this comment is intended, but I for one get really sick of hearing people call others "selfish" for their actions when it doesn't go in-line with their beliefs.

Yeah a helmet will save some people in some instances in some crashes. But it becomes a slippery-slope. What about those who die WEARING a helmet and leave children behind? Some people would call them selfish too, I mean how can one event if they have children? It's so dangerous and selfish.

yeah there are degrees of everything, but lots of us do all kinds of things that put us at risk, and we all make our own individual decisions that we have to live with. A friend of mine was in a motorcycle accident wearing a skull cap, NOT an approved helmet and almost died and lives in a wheelchair. Now *I* personally would never ride a motorcycle without a helmet, and think it's a silly risk. All his friends who ride Harley's still ride w/o helmets, and none of them see the correlation.

I don't know, it just sort of touches a nerve sometimes when people make moral judgements about people's choices in life like that. I mean, where does it end? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Perfect Pony, I could not agree with you more!! Thank you for typing it!~ I have been trying to type the same thing but have hesitated for days! Very well said!

Finnegan
May. 28, 2005, 09:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pol:
Holy smokes, Bev, that is creepy, eh? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry!

Lori B
May. 28, 2005, 01:38 PM
Double ditto w/ Perfect Pony & Sannois regarding the dangers inherent in making too many and too harsh judgments regarding the choices of others. Thanks for writing it, PP, I was struggling to put that very sentiment into words. We live in a world that is all too ready to write more rules, and it's a disturbing tendency.

Magnolia
May. 28, 2005, 05:38 PM
I do think we have too many rules. Far more likely to be a burden to society via obesity and being sedentary than by wearing an unapproved helmet. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BUT, when I compete at a horse trial, ride at my trainers farm or hack my friend's horse I feel that since it is their property, they have the right to ask me to take precautions like wearing a helmet. Perhaps they don't want the guilt of me crushing my head because they didn't insist.

If I owned my own farm and horses, I might be tempted to ride without a helmet on occasion. And I chose to ride without a helmet on several occasions when they weren't required. I suppose I was taking the risk, but then again, getting to these places was a risk.

I'm not sure about "because it's safer". That is becoming a slippery slope these days. "Because it is safer" many waterfalls in NC are behind chain link fencing. "Because it is safer" many towns are outlawing pitbulls. Whats next? No hiking trails? No dogs (I mean, labs cause the MOST bites...).... no more jumping horses?

GO-dog-GO
May. 28, 2005, 06:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I ride without a helmet. I ski without a helmet. I also have a small red converible that my firefighter friends call "the red coffin." I eat butter, cheese, and red meat. I keep a loaded handgun next to me. And I've had "unprotected" sex in the distant past.

I am probably going to slip in the shower and die. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like you...... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I've lived through too much in my 48 years to worry about "what if". Those 48 years included 1 major head injury, a few smaller ones nad a pretty impressive file at the ER. My loved ones have seem me in an ICU and don't want to see me there again but understand I am how/what I am and accept what I do.

Some people look at thing like...what if "this" happens?

I veiw things....It likely won't happen. Every now and then "it" does but injuries come with the territoy IMO.

Do what you want including preaching about helmets but in the end I'll do what I want not what you want me to.

Getting hurt or killed isn't something I really worry about.

IQ3day
May. 28, 2005, 06:55 PM
I agree with Perfect Pony, Sannois and Go-dog-go. We cant make judgements. And I personally am not going to live life worried about the what ifs. I have heard of helmets saving lives, but I have also heard bad stories. I was around when an upper level rider (who many admire for his young talent and extremely good looks) was dumped off a horse and in coma for a long period of time. He had to learn to talk again. He wasn't wearing a helmet. But he was also told a helmet may not have prevented it.

I have had some head injuries from the concussion of the helmet hitting my head when I fall. Luckily non were too serious. I just think we can't judge others by their actions. I do wear a helmet when I ride. But Im guilty of competing with a none approved helmet, and riding with my chin strap undone.

I think people need to make their own choices. *my* personal belief is we are all going to die when we are meant to die. And if we are supposed to die from a horse fall, it will happen helmet or no helmet.

There was a recent school bus accident here. The breaks of the bus failed. The drive lost control. Two cars, stopped at a red light were hit, the people died. Children were hurt badly. Things happen. No matter how safe we are, things happen. We can't stop at every red light wondering if we are going to die.

atr
May. 29, 2005, 03:08 PM
It isn't a matter of someone "feeling guilty" if you get hurt on their property, it's that your nearest and dearest can go after them and take everything they have away from them.

That's why I insist that anyone who ever rides one of my horses or rides on my property with my knowledge and consent wears a helmet.

mst
May. 29, 2005, 03:56 PM
i'm the h/j helmet topic starter. Just want to clarify a few things. I ride in a helmet every time no matter what. It has a harness which is fastened no matter what. I am not a riding risk taker when it comes to safety. I feel the newly approved helmets mandatory for 12/1 are not safer and I am concerned.

Reynard Ridge
May. 29, 2005, 04:53 PM
RAR and IFG,
I went back and forth on Disciple and Helm-ebangelist.

Neither really suits me totally, though, as I did not start this thread to preach the Gospel of Approved Helmets.

Rather (and this is a reminder as this thread has clearly wandered off in its own direction as these things are wont to do) that MY issue is that seeing other people ride without helmets freaks me out.

I don't ever DO anything about it. I don't take them to task or tell them that they are going to be a burden to society or even call their mothers.

It just freaks me out and I am actually quite happy to discover that I am not alone. Whew.

Carol Ames
May. 29, 2005, 05:53 PM
please!volunteer withyour local orstate brain injury association, or local hispitsal/rehab which, specializes in braininjury(TBI) or stroke ( a tBI) http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

Carol Ames
May. 29, 2005, 05:57 PM
pleease volunteer with yuru local bia(brain injury association, or whatever hospital inyourareaspecializes itbi.traumatic btrain injury

Carol Ames
May. 29, 2005, 06:05 PM
decisions do deeply affect those who love you[/quote]
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">decisions do deeply affect those who love you </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kells hathis right,f you won'tdothis foryourself, doit foryourloved ones, animals, and, horses.

Carol Ames
May. 29, 2005, 06:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carol Ames:
decisions do deeply affect those who love you </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">decisions do deeply affect those who love you </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kelly Ss has this right,if you won'tdo this for yourself, do it for your loved ones, animals, and, horses.[]

Carol Ames
May. 29, 2005, 06:10 PM
Right on,sophie! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Carol Ames
May. 29, 2005, 06:19 PM
In the United States, injuries continue to be the leading health risk for children. According to the Center for Disease Control, over 17,000 children (19 years of age and under) are killed each year as a result of an injury and thousands of others are left with a permanent disability. Of all types of injury, traumatic brain injury (TBI) continues to be the leading cause of death and disability among children and young adults. Fortunately, the majority of all brain injuries can be prevented, or the severity of the injury reduced, by following simple safety precautions. The Brain Injury Association of America's I.M. Brainy Awareness and Prevention kit was designed in an effort to reach our youngest children with a positive introduction to safety precautions. http://www.biausa.org/Pages/biam2003/info.html#educators

Reynard Ridge
May. 30, 2005, 05:39 AM
Alright, alright. So I said I would not preach the Gospel of Approved Helmets. But Carol's emphatic posting changed my mind. I thought up an anology last night that I really like:

So you like to have sex (assuming you are of legal age). But if you have unprotected sex, the odds of getting pregnant are approx. 1 in 266.

So, you chose some birth control. Some are more effective than others. Rhythm, not so effective. Condoms, mostly effective. IUDs, BCP, Depro, pretty effective when used as directed. However, nothing is 100% effective, EXCEPT, abstinence.

So, do you forgo sex? Probably not. You have it, with acceptance that there is some risk. People who use the lesser effective methods are taking a higher risk of unwanted pregnancy. People who use the more effective methods are taking a lower risk of pregnancy, but there is still a risk.

So there - if you ride without a helmet, you are taking a much higher risk of serious, sustained injury than those who chose to ride with approved helmets. EVERYONE who rides is at risk of injury. Some are just better protected than others.

I, for one, would prefer if every single child on this planet were planned and wanted. And I would also prefer if everyone who ever got on a horse reduced the risk of serious head injury as much as they could.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Sannois
May. 30, 2005, 06:43 AM
Yep RR But people have known what causes those unwanted pregnancies since the dawn of time, And Aids and stds have been around long enough for people to see the reprocussions of unprotected sex. Also over eating, Fattest nation in the world! Smoking... I could go on and on! We cant change everyone. Nor would I want to.
Goes off to put Charles Owen in the car http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif Why tempt fate! But not because anyone told me too. My own guilt just took over!

LisaB
May. 30, 2005, 09:22 AM
Hey, after I had Psycho-Spot(not a spot nor a brain anywhere to be had), I KNOW to wear a helmut ALL the time! Minus the other dumpings, I was walking in the arena, dressage saddle, draw reins, leg on working on proper walk, basic halt stuff. This psycho spooked at nothing, clean spun me off, headed for the hills and tried to run through the fenceline(AGAIN!). So, I know the capabilities of a horse if they are so inclined.
Even with all the data available, we will still have yahoos who think they are invincible. It's inevitable. To get me really started, there are pregnant women here at work who go out regularly on smoke breaks!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

Carol Ames
May. 30, 2005, 09:38 AM
]Originally posted by carol Ames:
In the United States,brain injuries continue to be the leading health risk for children. According to the Center for Disease Control, over 17,000 children (19 years of age and under) are killed each year as a result of an injury and thousands of others are left with a permanent disability. Of all types of injury, traumatic brain injury (TBI) continues to be the leading cause of death and disability among children and young adults. Fortunately, the majority of all brain injuries can be prevented, or the severity of the injury reduced, by following simple safety precautions. The Brain Injury Association of America's I.M. Brainy Awareness and Prevention kit was designed in an effort to reach our youngest children with a positive introduction to safety precautions. http://www.biausa.org/Pages/biam2003/info.html#educators[/QUOTE]

Carol Ames
May. 30, 2005, 10:23 AM
I've pften wonered wondered this:I mean how can one event if they have children? It's so dangerous and selfish. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Carol Ames
May. 30, 2005, 10:44 AM
Weall playthe"howclose totheflamcan we snwe fly?game., but riding without a helmet may ormaynot resultinyour being burnedby theflame, but,trust me,if you endup"justgettng scorched",ie., survivng a TBI, the peryon youwererebeforethe injury will begone foreverthough you may still be alive. Thse injuries/disabiilities arePERMANENT.

Carol Ames
May. 30, 2005, 10:48 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by carol Ames:
We haveall playedthe"howclose totheflamcane can we fly?game., but riding without a helmet may ormaynot resultin your being burned by theflame, but,trust me,if you endup" just onlytgettng scorched",ie., survivng a TBI, the person you were rebefore the injury will begone forever though you may still be alive. Thse injuries/disabilities arePERMANENT. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif

annikak
May. 30, 2005, 02:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deltawave:
Hey, I'm all for the complete banning of fast food, cigarettes, and maybe even alcohol, too. But I prefer to live in a place called the real world. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I enjoy a drink every now and then, so I wouldn't want to style myself a hypocrite, but I do my drinking responsibly. I ride my horse responsibly by wearing a helmet and not taking dumb chances...although some might argue that jumping a horse over XC fences is "taking a chance".

The reality is that I'd like to kick a good number of overweight people in the butt and tell them to get a grip, but the other side of the reality is that a lot of people have an extremely tough time of it for a million and one reasons. Strapping a helmet on one's head takes half a second. Making a lifestyle change is a little tougher, and I'd be the last one to adopt some sort of "holier than thou" attitude about it. Yeah, I'm proportional, but I'm no saint about my eating/exercise habits. So I'll leave the casting of stones to only the perfect physical specimens out there. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


so very well said.... I, too, would want everyone to be fit and healthy (I always invision a health care plan where the policy premium was based on healthy lifestyle living. With Auto insurance, you get a speeding ticket, your rates go up- does stop some, but not all from speeding. If you smoke, your rates go up. If you have an accident on a horse and did not have a helemt on, your policy would be limited because you broke their idea of "good risk". I *know* that is not at all PC, but oh well. when it comes to health, I am just not very PC (as I munch on smarties.... Hypocrite am I, I know! ) But for the 15 seconds it takes me to lug on that helmet, yeah, not an issue.

Now. I have ridden without a helmet as an adult, but let me tell you, those were the least of my worries right then. I NEEDED to take a risk, and KNEW I was taking a risk, and did not give a damn right then. But I was aware of what I was doing.

Laddie- YUCK!!!!!!! So sorry for you-

I think some may remember the YR that was killed in Area VIII about 12 years ago- cooling out her horse after dressage- they found her dead in the field....without her helmet. She was a wonderful, beautiful smart girl and I always saw her in one- but whatever happened that day, just awful.

So, I fall into the helmet-support group..??

GO-dog-GO
May. 31, 2005, 05:51 AM
To the orginal point...

You worry greatly if you see someone not wearing a helmet. That's you and some other people feel the same way.

I could care less if someone doesn't wear a helmet and it doesn't bother me in the least if I see someone without one. Same with seat belts. Matter a fact I don't really care what an adult does and I would never think of telling them to buckle up or wear a helmet. I don't think it's any of my busniess. BASE jump, work on a crab boat in Alaska or ride without a helmet....the choice is yours not mine and I'm comfortable with YOUR choice.

Why do so many people feel the need to worry about other people?

Why do I not worry about other people?

I guess it's "nice" that you're concerned with other peoples saftey because I'm sure the hell not...... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BTW It took about 8 years to fully recover from my 'big' brain injury.

Perfect Pony
May. 31, 2005, 07:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GO-dog-GO:
Why do so many people feel the need to worry about other people?

Why do I not worry about other people?

I guess it's "nice" that you're concerned with other peoples saftey because I'm sure the hell not...... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suppose my thoughts come from spending so many years worring about other people. Working as a social worker with the homeless in SF, I burnt out and finally realized you can't save anybody. We're all going to die no matter what, and it actually seems that trying to prevent it just causes a whole OTHER set of problems http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But seriously, I am a helmet "supporter" and wear a helmet every time I am on a horse. With my rouge gelding I even wore one on the ground. I just agree with GdG here, I have given up worrying about someone else not wearing one, and don't waste my stomach lining on things I cannot control anymore. I am also more and more the libertarian regarding personal freedom the older I get.

DMK
May. 31, 2005, 07:00 PM
I'll preface this with full disclosure:

a) I have used the term "helmet nazi" and most likely will continue to use it. It's funny to me. If that isn't the place you are at, I apoligize and regret that you will be continued to be troubled by any of my posts you stumble across.

b) yes, I only own an unapproved and that it gets worn at any time other than a show is a recent event.

c) I fully understand, believe and am not afraid of saying that approved helmets work better than even $600 custom Pateys.

d) I approve of and support the new h/j rules regarding approved helmets. I even kid myself and say I will try to wear one every time I ride when I actually buy one. I know that one day it will happen because...

e) I fully recognize that I take a chance when I ride without a helmet or even my unapproved, and

f) I am old enough to know, understand, comprehend that change is inevitable, change is resisted and again, change is inevitable. I see no need to do an end run around the process.

Now let's talk about this perception that head injuries are some sort of drain on the national health care system, because when you whip that argument out you leave yourself wide open to be shot down by the reality of the matter or worse yet, sound like FOX news, repeating a sound bite that hasn't even been sourced. Leaving aside there is no national health care system, let me repeat for the 3,567 time (albeit not on the eventing forum) that traumatic injuries are not a huge chunk of health care costs. Ultimately they happen to be a very small portion of people and don't make even a nominal impact on overall health care costs (although they are individually devastating - more on that later*).

You want to make an impact on health care costs? You know what is the largest contributer to spiraling health care costs? Obesity and all the complications thereof (heart disease, diabetes, complications to other conditions, joint stress and so on). BIG bucks. HUGE. Simply huge and spiralling out of control every day. Fast food nation. Yeehaw.

Even the stat about injury being the largest cause of death in children? Well, yes and obviously so... Children are young, healthy, and if they (to put it bluntly) survived early childhood, are less likely to succumb to chronic conditions like heart disease than a 40+ year old. They tend to save that for when they turn... 40. So yes, when you are young and healthy, accidents are about it in the way of risk factors (or at least until Xbox goes deadly). But this is not going to change even if we could magically prevent all traumatic head injuries. On the other hand, complications from Type II diabetes cost far more lives in the long run. But not so much glamour with that one. Very boring, the fat children not having stable insulin levels and all that.

So no, the problems plaguing health care in this country aren't even going to be amused by the wearing of a helmet. They have way bigger problems and this is the equivalent of spitting on a forest fire.

But still, why support wearing helmets?

Insurers who do liability insurance for farms, horse shows, etc. ARE concerned with outlier risk. Obesity, heart failure, the never ending spiral of lifestyle drugs launched on the market aren't on their nickel. Liability for head trauma might very well be. So it stands to reason that they want to mitigate that risk. In their limited world it IS a big deal. But remember, the amount per year that goes to cover any one individual at a farm or show is very small potatoes compared to the amount that same individual pays for health insurance. So think pennies out of a $20... $100? bill for comparative purposes. But if you are the show manager shelling out for 1000s of competitors many times a year, the pennies add up, so it's a big deal of a smaller slice.

* Even smaller yet, is the individual impact. Sure, as the person who represents a health insurer and develops product, I don't waste time on this issue. Hell, even the price impact between $1M to unlimited lifetime max on the total policy (even assuming all those helmetless traumatic head injuries) will not (actuarily speaking) significantly impact the bottom line. I'm far busier thinking about how I can get that gastric stapling exclusion in my contracts...

But as an individual with totally awesome health care coverage, short term, long term and life insurance policies, and more insurance saavy than 99.9% of you little people, I can absolutely promise you that I would be financially wiped out by a serious head trauma. My family would be severely stretched and financially devastated by such an event.

So yes, there are plenty of reasons to wear an approved helmet, but please, for the love of LBJ, don't get sucked into that "health care costs" red herring argument.

GO-dog-GO
Jun. 1, 2005, 05:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and more insurance saavy than 99.9% of you little people </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

She must be talking about you guys.....you know me, I'm 6' 9". http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

I do love the "not wearing a helmet makes "my" insurance cost higher" argument tho....... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

lizathenag
Jun. 1, 2005, 09:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">nazi" and most likely will continue to use it. It's funny to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess I missed the funny part about the Nazis (but I digress)

I fell plunk on my back (with helmet and vest) from the walk this weekend when my horse spun due to a quail or something and I was admiring the scenery.

I was wearing a Tipperary Helmet. I know Troxel does a damaged helment exchange (or at least did) for $15. Does anyone know what the deal with Tipperary is? I will of course do this research myself but I thought someone here might know (or have done it).

and don't forget to replace your helmet after it gives its all to protect you. They are designed to fail.

I know--Helmet Allies!!! (does anyone actually remember WWII?)

DMK
Jun. 1, 2005, 09:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lizathenag:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">nazi" and most likely will continue to use it. It's funny to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess I missed the funny part about the Nazis (but I digress) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's guessing you werent a fan of The Producers. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

But Allies are all good, knock yourself out. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Seal Harbor
Jun. 1, 2005, 10:05 AM
Or a fan of Seinfeld - there were a few episodes with the Soup Nazi.

WNT
Jun. 1, 2005, 12:20 PM
The Axis of Helmet-wearers?

Hmm... too wordy.

oldbutnotdead
Jun. 1, 2005, 12:58 PM
Sunday, while turning on the outside water, I tripped and fell towards the concrete wall of the house, and thought about this thread. I was not wearing a helmet.