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View Full Version : Yet another truck thread: Kinds of diesel engines? NEW QUESTION: Diesel care



mvp
Jun. 22, 2010, 07:48 AM
Truck hunt continues. Still babe-in-the-woods clueless about gasoline engines, particularly their longevity.

My truck mechanics, who share my longing for the good old days of the non-turbo, polluting and dirt simple diesel engines, have complained about even Ford's Powerstroke engines. They showed me a cautionary picture of a Powerstoke in surgery-- the whole damned truck body around it had been taken off.

Are Powerstokes, in fact, persnickety and expensive to work on?

Would you buy a Dodge before you chose a Ford Powerstroke?

You are welcome to sing the praises of gasoline engines here if the spirit moves you. But please use relevant terms-- speak to me about engines large enough for the job and which have Redwood Tree longevity.

wildlifer
Jun. 22, 2010, 08:56 AM
No -- the Cummins diesel is a great engine, but it still comes with a Chrysler truck around it. That said, I wouldn't buy a new Powerstroke either. I'm a die-hard 7.3L Powerstroke junkie and mine shall only be pried out of my cold dead hands. Never persnickety and very easy to work on in most cases.

mvp
Jun. 22, 2010, 12:35 PM
wildlifer--

So you dig the 7.3 Powerstrokes, but not newer/smaller? The congenital "weak constitution" of the 6.0 Powerstroke is known to me, never fear.

My mechanics' boxers were all wadded about Powerstokes in general, though they may have been nostalgic for the International self-feeding/breathing 7.3s that you just. can't. find. any.more. I'm thinking of getting a black armband or veil. But that still won't actually help me-- an almost widow.

lisa
Jun. 22, 2010, 03:56 PM
Count me as a member of the 7.3 Powerstroke fan club...
Every mechanic I have ever talked to has told me to drive my truck (2001 F-350) 'til it dies -- which may at 500,000 miles (300,000+ from now).

weasel1088
Jun. 22, 2010, 04:16 PM
5.9L cummins for me, based on durbility, longevity, power, and mileage. The new cummins 6.7L is great on everything but mileage. new emissions requirements cut down on that. Dont know why everyone complains about it being a chrysler. i love mine, there is nothing i would change about it either. in fact when i replace my current one it will be with one slightly newer but same engine.

For ease of work, you really cannot get easier than an inline 6, even being longer there is just so much room to work around its great. has the feeling of older cars where its basically an engine and thats it(where you can practically stand in the engine bay!)



edit...why on earth would you want a non turbo!?!? lol!! sooooooo sllllooooww :)

wildlifer
Jun. 22, 2010, 04:28 PM
wildlifer--

So you dig the 7.3 Powerstrokes, but not newer/smaller? The congenital "weak constitution" of the 6.0 Powerstroke is known to me, never fear.

My mechanics' boxers were all wadded about Powerstokes in general, though they may have been nostalgic for the International self-feeding/breathing 7.3s that you just. can't. find. any.more. I'm thinking of getting a black armband or veil. But that still won't actually help me-- an almost widow.

MAJORLY MAJORLY dig it. I've yet to hear anything reassuring overall about the 6's and the 6.4L's. Some seem to have been ok, others horrible. I drove a 6.4L and the mileage was so horrible, I wasn't tempted in the slightest, even less so as I began to hear reports of turbo and cooling system issues. I don't know what I will do if my 7.3L ever dies. Wail along with you in black, I suppose.

shortbusgeek
Jun. 22, 2010, 05:15 PM
Count me in the 7.3L fan club. I've got two of them (though admittedly the second one is in our Excursion which of course can't haul the gooseneck trailer. I'm actually looking for another 7.3L truck to trade the Excursion on at the moment.) I happened to get one of the first trucks from 2003 with the turbo diesel 7.3. If the 7.3 in the dually dies, it will get rebuilt. I've seen cases on the various truck forums where people get a million miles out of these engines before they rebuild them. Our dually is sitting at around 223k right now with about 23k since the transmission rebuild. I've driven a 6.0 and wasn't impressed in the least. Haven't driven the 6.4 but have heard it's better than the 6.0, still not as good as the 7.3. I haven't really heard anything about the up and coming 6.7 from Ford, so I can't really comment there yet.

Tom King
Jun. 22, 2010, 07:04 PM
Duramax fan here. 9 1/2 years and 163,000 miles, zero trouble.

cssutton
Jun. 22, 2010, 07:23 PM
I swore I would never post again one one of these truck threads because there is so much misinformation by those who think they know it all.

First, the 7.3 was a good engine. I owned two of them, the last I drove 357,000 miles.

But it is not..was not perfect.

If you had a weak battery it would not crank on a cold morning because it has to make so many turns before the oil pressure gets high enough to operate the fuel system. On a cold morning, the battery will give out before the engine firs unless the battery is like new.

The front seat is noisy. Get out of a 7.3 and into a 6.4 and you think you have moved to a Lincoln Town Car.

The 6.0 was crap.

I have a 6.4 that has 73,000 miles on it and I have never owned anything that I enjoyed driving as much as this truck.

Terrible mileage?

BS.

I get just under 18 and sometimes just a tad over when operating on the highway at 60 to 70 MPH.

It likes speed.

I get 11.5 pulling a 4 horse on gently rolling 4 lanes. Sometimes 11.8 on the same route.

Mountains, pulling the trailer 9 to 10. But it pulls the trailer up a 9% grade like it is flat land. The speed is curve limited, not grade limited.

Around town, I don't drive much in the areas of a stop light every block. I would describe my city driving as suburban, outer loop, etc., where you might hit a light about every 3 miles or so. 15 to 15.3.

That said, there are 6.4's and 6.4's. You have to know how to buy one. Job #3 or later if a 2008, 20" wheels, 80 lbs rear and 65 front, 3.73 rear end and 30,000 miles to break it in.

Mine is a 4 x 4 crew cab with everything you can get on it except the super sound audio. It has the second to the best.

That said, Ford has built diesels in the past. I have no doubt the 6.7 will be a good engine after a year of debugging.

As for removing the body, that is not such a big deal. Never needed it, but I have seen a couple of them in the dealer's.

If you have a mechanic who wails at the idea of working on one, you need a new mechanic. Those who have been to the Ford school are not afraid of them.

That said, I am done.

CSSJR

jcotton
Jun. 23, 2010, 10:45 AM
I have a 2001, 7.3 liter, dually crew cab, 4X4, F350 with 176,000 miles. I plan on driving for a long time. It did have a new tranny and the 1st fuel injector as well as the 1st fuel injector module replaced last year. That has been its only major out of warranty issues. I plan on getting at least another 176,000 miles on it.

dani0303
Jun. 23, 2010, 11:55 AM
Love love LOVE the 7.3L Powerstroke in my 2001 F-250.

mvp
Aug. 21, 2010, 12:25 PM
With God's help the truck hunt ended in triumph.

I just bought a 2001 F-350 7.3L who doesn't even have her boobies yet-- 54K miles. Well, I don't think she has her boobs yet, but I don't know how to tell, looking at a truck. She was owned by some Boys who loved her and therefore Boyed her up with some aftermarket Boy Parts-- a fresh air intake and tuning-type chip among other things.

So now I need to learn to care for the youngest diesel I have ever owned and I have all kinds of questions.

1) Where do you non-motorheads go for some internet info on stuff like this? I find the Edmunds diesel forums a little over my head so far.

2) When do you consider a diesel engine broken in? And should I put her chip back on "Ford settings" for a while until she has grown up some? I do have a good and informed diesel mechanic but he's all "You know, Ford engineered this engine one way. The chip changes that...." So I need some kind of Dr. Spock Official Ruling on how to raise my young diesel.

3) Other life-extending techniques you like? I'm all about longevity and no slouch when it comes to caring for diesels. My grand old lady has 330,000 miles on her and is still going strong, save the rusting exoskeleton. But this is a whole new kettle of fish to me.

Many thanks.

Jaegermonster
Aug. 21, 2010, 02:16 PM
Good Job. Nice truck. I am on my third 7.3 psd, only because the other two got bought from me for buckets of cash :). This one is an 02 and you can't pry my fingers away from it, I'm running it til it falls apart. I have heard that the new Ford Diesel for 2011 is supposed to be a real beast, but i never buy anything the first year or so it's out.

As far as the chip, I would get it taken out. It voids any warranty that may be left on the truck. Yours is old enough though it may not have one anymore, except for whatever is warranteed up to 100k, which is just about when a diesel starts thinking about getting broken in.

As far as what someone else said about not starting when it's cold, it's called an engine heater. I don't have to plug it in or anything.
My truck came with it off the lot, yours might have one too.
Never had a problem starting my truck and it was below 20 here at night for over 2 weeks and never got above freezing during that time last winter, yes I am in N FL.
I pull A LOT with my diesel and I get the oil changed every 3-4k miles. They say you can go longer but I don't. Every other oil change i get the tires rotated and balanced. Follow the severe duty schedule for maintenance in the manual religiously, and for every service that ends with a zero or for anything major I take mine to the dealer. I have bought all my trucks at the same place and referred others so they treat me very well, and I want to make sure things a) get done right, and b) when I am off hauling 6 states away and something craps out I have some recourse via Ford. I don't baby the truck but I am particular about keeping up with the maintenance and keeping good records.
My truck has 126k on it and still has the original brakes too.

Kairoshorses
Aug. 21, 2010, 02:29 PM
Dang, CSSJR...wanna come with me whilest I look at trucks!?


I swore I would never post again one one of these truck threads because there is so much misinformation by those who think they know it all.

First, the 7.3 was a good engine. I owned two of them, the last I drove 357,000 miles.

But it is not..was not perfect.

If you had a weak battery it would not crank on a cold morning because it has to make so many turns before the oil pressure gets high enough to operate the fuel system. On a cold morning, the battery will give out before the engine firs unless the battery is like new.

The front seat is noisy. Get out of a 7.3 and into a 6.4 and you think you have moved to a Lincoln Town Car.

The 6.0 was crap.

I have a 6.4 that has 73,000 miles on it and I have never owned anything that I enjoyed driving as much as this truck.

Terrible mileage?

BS.

I get just under 18 and sometimes just a tad over when operating on the highway at 60 to 70 MPH.

It likes speed.

I get 11.5 pulling a 4 horse on gently rolling 4 lanes. Sometimes 11.8 on the same route.

Mountains, pulling the trailer 9 to 10. But it pulls the trailer up a 9% grade like it is flat land. The speed is curve limited, not grade limited.

Around town, I don't drive much in the areas of a stop light every block. I would describe my city driving as suburban, outer loop, etc., where you might hit a light about every 3 miles or so. 15 to 15.3.

That said, there are 6.4's and 6.4's. You have to know how to buy one. Job #3 or later if a 2008, 20" wheels, 80 lbs rear and 65 front, 3.73 rear end and 30,000 miles to break it in.

Mine is a 4 x 4 crew cab with everything you can get on it except the super sound audio. It has the second to the best.

That said, Ford has built diesels in the past. I have no doubt the 6.7 will be a good engine after a year of debugging.

As for removing the body, that is not such a big deal. Never needed it, but I have seen a couple of them in the dealer's.

If you have a mechanic who wails at the idea of working on one, you need a new mechanic. Those who have been to the Ford school are not afraid of them.

That said, I am done.

CSSJR

Rabbit351w
Aug. 21, 2010, 06:09 PM
as for issue #1, hubby likes www.ford-trucks.com/forums, although I don't know if his "pro" status helps with the comprehension there as well ;)

Foxtrot's
Aug. 21, 2010, 07:56 PM
The 6.0 is garbage - so sue me Ford, I don't care.

mvp
Aug. 21, 2010, 09:39 PM
Good Job. Nice truck. I am on my third 7.3 psd, only because the other two got bought from me for buckets of cash :). This one is an 02 and you can't pry my fingers away from it, I'm running it til it falls apart. I have heard that the new Ford Diesel for 2011 is supposed to be a real beast, but i never buy anything the first year or so it's out.

As far as the chip, I would get it taken out. It voids any warranty that may be left on the truck. Yours is old enough though it may not have one anymore, except for whatever is warranteed up to 100k, which is just about when a diesel starts thinking about getting broken in.

As far as what someone else said about not starting when it's cold, it's called an engine heater. I don't have to plug it in or anything.
My truck came with it off the lot, yours might have one too.
Never had a problem starting my truck and it was below 20 here at night for over 2 weeks and never got above freezing during that time last winter, yes I am in N FL.
I pull A LOT with my diesel and I get the oil changed every 3-4k miles. They say you can go longer but I don't. Every other oil change i get the tires rotated and balanced. Follow the severe duty schedule for maintenance in the manual religiously, and for every service that ends with a zero or for anything major I take mine to the dealer. I have bought all my trucks at the same place and referred others so they treat me very well, and I want to make sure things a) get done right, and b) when I am off hauling 6 states away and something craps out I have some recourse via Ford. I don't baby the truck but I am particular about keeping up with the maintenance and keeping good records.
My truck has 126k on it and still has the original brakes too.

Many things. If you have an '02 that you won't part with, what were these collectors' items peopls were buying from you and what's so awesome about this one?

I think the warranty was 5 years/100K so it might not matter.

Don't know about an engine heater-- you mean separate from the engine block heater I plug in? If so, what up with that?

With good batteries, the Grand Old Lady *always* started in Central NY (but not Buffalo) winter temps. It may just be her work ethic. But I'm also prepared with a long, expensively 16 guage extention cord for proper warmth.

I'm with you on the oil changes. Every document for work down to the last oil change for 200,000 miles is wadded up in Old Lady's glove box. I have been too casual about tires.

If I really loved this truck, I'd get her a temp gauge for her transmission for the towing part of her job description.

Thanks again for talking diesel with me.

Heinz 57
Aug. 21, 2010, 11:13 PM
Google powerstroke nation for a pretty decent forum that isn't TOO techy.

Mine has a chip. Depending on what the settings are and if they did anything else besides the cold air intake, you might want to ask the know it alls what the best setting is to use, for everyday vs towing.

My set up has a few more mods and just rolled over 130k, sound as a dollar.

hosspuller
Aug. 22, 2010, 01:09 AM
My set up has a few more mods and just rolled over 130k, sound as a dollar.

That's not saying much... The dollar's value being under attack by the current political leadership of this country. :sadsmile:

Heinz 57
Aug. 22, 2010, 03:08 AM
That's not saying much... The dollar's value being under attack by the current political leadership of this country. :sadsmile:

Ya know, I thought of that when I posted that. Either way, the point was that I've had ZERO problems with it, even hauling a fully loaded steel BP up a long grade in 100 degree heat last week (which is likely the most I'll ever ask of it). Not that 130k is an accomplishment for a powerstroke! :)

Come to think of it, I have had one problem. The right rear door lock sometimes sticks. Darn. :lol: :winkgrin:

mvp
Aug. 22, 2010, 06:23 AM
Ya know, I thought of that when I posted that. Either way, the point was that I've had ZERO problems with it, even hauling a fully loaded steel BP up a long grade in 100 degree heat last week (which is likely the most I'll ever ask of it). Not that 130k is an accomplishment for a powerstroke! :)

Come to think of it, I have had one problem. The right rear door lock sometimes sticks. Darn. :lol: :winkgrin:

'K when did you put in the chip?

And if you wade into discussions at http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums you'll find yourself *needing* many gauges, the most legitimate of which for us chipped up towing folks is a tranny temp.

cherham
Aug. 22, 2010, 08:32 AM
5.9 litre Cummins diesel and LOVE, LOVE, LOVE it. Tows my big living quarter horse trailer like it was not even there. Great mileage and NO electronics to screw up. Simple efficient engine that will last forever.

My 2500 Dodge truck is 15 years new and still looks great. Never had a problem with either the truck or the engine. I kid my husband that when I buy my next Dodge truck in about 10 years or so I will transfer the old Cummins into the the new one...I honestly think I will get 25 years out of my present truck...and with hauling my trailer. Can't beat that economy!

cssutton
Aug. 22, 2010, 12:28 PM
Dang, CSSJR...wanna come with me whilest I look at trucks!?


Been away from this for a while.

Sounds like fun, but too far from the house.

The reason I made the comments I did was that I almost did not buy my 2008 6.4 because I looked up threads on the internet and saw so many complaints, some obviously off the wall and some that seemed reasonable.

But I was in the position of 357,000 on my 7.3, once every week driving two and one half hours starting at midnight, on a bad road, part of which was up a 9% grade.

No shoulder on either side, frequently foggy and when it was foggy it was the worst I have ever seen. Many nights I would be down to walking speed.

Not the kind of place where you want to have a breakdown.

But since nothing lasts forever, which is unfortunate, especially for those my age, I felt I had to trade.

So I bought one.

It rolled up 80,000 this week and I can say that I have enjoyed it more than any wheels we have ever owned, whether it be luxury car, pick up or what.

Now they are out with an engine built by Ford, the 6.7.

I know nothing about it but there is no doubt in my mind that it will be excellent after the first year bugs are worked out.

Ford built hundreds of thousands of diesel engines before they got out of the farm equipment business and they were excellent.

By the way, since my original, I have had a computer update.

The regen cycles are much farther apart and much shorter in duration.

Also fuel mileage is about 2 MPG better when not pulling the trailer.

The regen is so short that I will see the notice flash on the panel and the next time I look, it is gone.

Only twice in 10,000 miles have I seen it last for any length of time, the last time was last Sunday night and it lasted 20 minutes.

I hope you are as lucky as I.

CSSJR

Heinz 57
Aug. 23, 2010, 02:03 AM
'K when did you put in the chip?

And if you wade into discussions at http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums you'll find yourself *needing* many gauges, the most legitimate of which for us chipped up towing folks is a tranny temp.

Mine's a manual. I do have exhaust temp and boost gauges (boost gauge = unnecessary, but came in the pillar 'cluster' with the exhaust temp), though.

Not sure on the date of the chip install... I'd have to check the records.

wildlifer
Aug. 23, 2010, 10:01 AM
1) Where do you non-motorheads go for some internet info on stuff like this?

2) When do you consider a diesel engine broken in?

3) Other life-extending techniques you like?

Woot, congrats! I have basically the same truck, but mine's the 250. I go straight to http://www.ford-trucks.com in the 7.3L diesel folder for any questions. Those folks are great, friendly, and will post step by step picture instructions for you and if you live near anyone, they will come help you too. I heart them.

I don't really think about "broken in." I just drive the thing.

Oil changes, of course are vital. For the 7.3L, keeping up on tranny fluid and radiator fluid are also important. Draining the water out of the gas bowl (this is probably the wrong name for it) under the truck, too, which is very easy.

I have about 120K on mine (I bought it around 100K) and haven't had a peep out of it. I do have a 4 yr warranty on it, so I'm trying to tell the tranny to break so I can get a new one, LOL. I need to add a little grease to the rear end of the drive axle so it quit clunking away from stop signs, I think that's about it. Oh, and they can get the romp-romps in the wintertime on cold starts -- many have found that switching to synthetic oil solves that. I haven't tried that yet, I don't think the romps hurt anything, they just sound embarrassing...

Have fun -- I love mine every time I turn the key!

Tiki
Aug. 23, 2010, 02:23 PM
I have a 2001 F250 PSD and I love it. It has almost 190,000 miles on it now. It is a 5 speed manual and it rocks! Only problem I'm having now is 'something' is slipping somewhere and the tach will go up but the ground speed won't. Then it catches again. It is not so fast off the line as it was and it has to work hard going up hills with 2 big horses and it never ever did before. I'm going to have to take it in at some point, but I need some free moola first. Clutch? clutch cylinder? slave cylinder? tranny? Absolutely no drips of any sort (well, except from the overflow from the AC) under the truck at any time. I routinely get around 17/18 mpg, around 15 hauling a 4H GN with 2 big horses or mares and foals. AC will freeze you out of the truck if it's less than 85 degrees out.

Oh yeah, I always plug it in when the temp is 25 or below and it starts right up with NO strain on the battery (learned that the hard way - it has 2 expensive batteries in it) and the really good thing about plugging it in is that the cab is warm instantly when I turn on the heat. :D

Jaegermonster
Aug. 23, 2010, 03:34 PM
Many things. If you have an '02 that you won't part with, what were these collectors' items peopls were buying from you and what's so awesome about this one?

I think the warranty was 5 years/100K so it might not matter.

Don't know about an engine heater-- you mean separate from the engine block heater I plug in? If so, what up with that?

With good batteries, the Grand Old Lady *always* started in Central NY (but not Buffalo) winter temps. It may just be her work ethic. But I'm also prepared with a long, expensively 16 guage extention cord for proper warmth.

I'm with you on the oil changes. Every document for work down to the last oil change for 200,000 miles is wadded up in Old Lady's glove box. I have been too casual about tires.

If I really loved this truck, I'd get her a temp gauge for her transmission for the towing part of her job description.

Thanks again for talking diesel with me.

My other trucks were a 97, 99 and 2000 F 250 PSD. People kept approaching me in parking lots and offering me boatloads of money for them (like double book value and then some, way more than enough for payoff and a healthy downpayment on a new one) since my area is not real horsey and good clean nice diesels are kind of hard to find here so I sold them and kept upgrading on options and stuff. Now that they aren't making the the 7.3, I won't sell this one. But I would if they were still making it and someone offered me enough $$ I would so I could get a dually.

As far as the engine heater, yes on my truck it came with the truck off the lot ( I bought it brand new). I'm not sure how it works etc, but there is nothing to plug in. I think it was an option that came with the particular package that I got. My other diesels didn't have it and it was a pain when it got cold, so I really appreciate the engine heater.

And I'm anal too, I have a small spiral notebook and put every single thing that is ever done to that truck in there, with the date and mileage and I have every receipt. As someone else said, it's very important to keep the bowl empty of water, that's your fuel filter and you don't want all that water getting in your fuel. They should check it at the oil changes and empty it.

weasel1088
Aug. 23, 2010, 03:38 PM
Mine's a manual. I do have exhaust temp and boost gauges (boost gauge = unnecessary, but came in the pillar 'cluster' with the exhaust temp), though.

Not sure on the date of the chip install... I'd have to check the records.


My dodge is chipped(for about 20k miles), and i love it. I disagree with the unnecessary comment about boost gauges. It can give you a lot of useful information. Exhaust temp fuel pressure and boost are the gauges i have, unless you have an auto which should have a temp gauge for it



I have a 2001 F250 PSD and I love it. It has almost 190,000 miles on it now. It is a 5 speed manual and it rocks! Only problem I'm having now is 'something' is slipping somewhere and the tach will go up but the ground speed won't. Then it catches again. It is not so fast off the line as it was and it has to work hard going up hills with 2 big horses and it never ever did before. I'm going to have to take it in at some point, but I need some free moola first. Clutch? clutch cylinder? slave cylinder? tranny? Absolutely no drips of any sort (well, except from the overflow from the AC) under the truck at any time. I routinely get around 17/18 mpg, around 15 hauling a 4H GN with 2 big horses or mares and foals. AC will freeze you out of the truck if it's less than 85 degrees out.

Oh yeah, I always plug it in when the temp is 25 or below and it starts right up with NO strain on the battery (learned that the hard way - it has 2 expensive batteries in it) and the really good thing about plugging it in is that the cab is warm instantly when I turn on the heat. :D


Sounds like the clutch is on its way out. definitely dont want that taking a dive when out with the trailer.

weasel1088
Aug. 23, 2010, 03:42 PM
1) Where do you non-motorheads go for some internet info on stuff like this?

2) When do you consider a diesel engine broken in? And should I put her chip back on "Ford settings" for a while until she has grown up some? I do have a good and informed diesel mechanic but he's all "You know, Ford engineered this engine one way. The chip changes that...." So I need some kind of Dr. Spock Official Ruling on how to raise my young diesel.

3) Other life-extending techniques you like?

Many thanks.



1) cant help you there, i have a dodge:D

2) honestly, 100k miles on a diesel is just getting broken in.:eek: but i would chip it for sure :)

3) besides routine maintenance, put the pedal to the floor every once in a while and burn off that carbon buildup:yes: blow some smoke:winkgrin:

Lucassb
Aug. 23, 2010, 03:55 PM
With God's help the truck hunt ended in triumph.

I just bought a 2001 F-350 7.3L who doesn't even have her boobies yet-- 54K miles. Well, I don't think she has her boobs yet, but I don't know how to tell, looking at a truck. She was owned by some Boys who loved her and therefore Boyed her up with some aftermarket Boy Parts-- a fresh air intake and tuning-type chip among other things.

So now I need to learn to care for the youngest diesel I have ever owned and I have all kinds of questions.

1) Where do you non-motorheads go for some internet info on stuff like this? I find the Edmunds diesel forums a little over my head so far.

2) When do you consider a diesel engine broken in? And should I put her chip back on "Ford settings" for a while until she has grown up some? I do have a good and informed diesel mechanic but he's all "You know, Ford engineered this engine one way. The chip changes that...." So I need some kind of Dr. Spock Official Ruling on how to raise my young diesel.

3) Other life-extending techniques you like? I'm all about longevity and no slouch when it comes to caring for diesels. My grand old lady has 330,000 miles on her and is still going strong, save the rusting exoskeleton. But this is a whole new kettle of fish to me.

Many thanks.

Ah, congrats on the new baby... at 54k I'd say you got an infant, never mind the boobies.

My '99 7.3L is just hitting adolescence at 110k miles, I figure. Still in perfect shape inside and out. My DH jokes that I just spent a bunch of $$$ on a house with more garage space solely so it could live inside in the winter. (He's wrong; I also wanted bigger closets. :D )

You already know about the oil change/removing water from the bowl stuff. Also, always buy your diesel at the places that sell a ton of it if you can. Not the little out of the way places that get a diesel delivery twice a year.

I'm in the same camp as your mechanic and have always had the performance I wanted with an unchipped vehicle so can't help you on that score. I like the TheDieselStop.com forums for info, though, and would certainly would invest in a cps to throw in your glove box. They're cheap and a cinch to install if the current one fails (and if you need one, you're not goin' anywhere til you get that part.)

Enjoy the new baby.

wsmoak
Aug. 23, 2010, 04:09 PM
5.9 litre Cummins diesel and LOVE, LOVE, LOVE it. Tows my big living quarter horse trailer like it was not even there. Great mileage and NO electronics to screw up. Simple efficient engine that will last forever.

Another Cummins owner, I'm on my second (a 2002) because the first had That Transmission (the 1998.5 model year).

The engine is great, just hit 90,000 miles and going strong. The Dodge parts surrounding it... not so much.

mroades
Aug. 23, 2010, 04:20 PM
I have 374k on my 2000 7.3 350. I change the oil every 5k, and put 1/3 bottle of power service (cetane boost) every 2-3 tanks of fuel.
At 141k I put a Brian's transmission in it, because I really didnt want to be stuck with a broken tranny as I travel a lot with horses and by myself.
I love my truck!

mvp
Aug. 23, 2010, 04:46 PM
Many thanks for sharing the joy of a new (old) 7.3 with me. It means a lot to be able to share that with some people who get it.

I'll answer y'all in separate posts. But for everyone:

I'll have you know it took me about 8 months of looking in the Northeast to find this one.

You should also know that my trusty Old Lady has been under my care for 210K miles. She did get a rebuilt Jasper transmission just after I bought her at 125K. It shows no signs of dying.

All this means that if you have a horse/truck you like and know how to manage its soundness, keep it. For people who don't want to switch breeds, this applies especially to the Ford 7.3Ls until the 6.7s get a track record and trickle down to the used market.

cherham, you might just get 25 years out of your Dodge if the rest of the truck holds up to the well-cared for Cummins. Those are strong, simple engines that seem to stay strong for a very long time.

Perhaps the Duramax's market share will build right about now.

mvp
Aug. 23, 2010, 07:05 PM
By the way, since my original, I have had a computer update.

The regen cycles are much farther apart and much shorter in duration.

Also fuel mileage is about 2 MPG better when not pulling the trailer.

The regen is so short that I will see the notice flash on the panel and the next time I look, it is gone.

Only twice in 10,000 miles have I seen it last for any length of time, the last time was last Sunday night and it lasted 20 minutes.

I hope you are as lucky as I.

CSSJR

Can you give me a little tutorial on Regen?

It sounds to me like an engine designed to decide to work like a self-cleaning oven: When too much soot builds up (where?) it pours on the fuel to burn that out?

(With this analogy, can you see why I don't ask the diesel-only boys?)

Anywho. It will happen in my 7.3 PSD and I keep driving? Take it for a breezing type workout on the freeway? What?

I hope your still running 357K-er got a decent retirement. I can't bring myself to send mine to The Fiery Furnace where she would be melted down just for $200. Some of her parts (great tires and expensive batteries) are worth more than that. And the emotional attachment to a truck that has *never* screwed me is worth something, too.

mvp
Aug. 23, 2010, 07:08 PM
Mine's a manual. I do have exhaust temp and boost gauges (boost gauge = unnecessary, but came in the pillar 'cluster' with the exhaust temp), though.

Not sure on the date of the chip install... I'd have to check the records.

With some more studying I see that you are right. We all need tranny temp, EGT (exhaust gas temp) and turbo boost measured in psi.

Too bad I hate the pillar cluster. But in-dash gauges exist.

All this does make stock settings and no modifications look good. Though fresh air intake doesn't seem bad, hard or damaging.

mvp
Aug. 23, 2010, 07:21 PM
No, as a matter of fact, I don't know stuff about fuel bowls and CPS yet. (On the to-do list)

In fact, I don't even know where those things are on this engine.

I know there should be homologous bits of anatomy between the IDI and Powerstroke. But just a casual look under the hood shows just how much evolution has occurred. Anatomical landmarks have really moved around and there are some entirely new adaptations.

For example, do y'all know that the turbo engines have two (2!) alternators? One can punt and you can still run. Apparently Ford needed more electricity and also reliability for ambulances which were powered by the PSD engine. They could build one big alternator or create juice plus reliability by building two. You can see the top one; the other is buried deeper.

OK. But do you care?

mvp
Aug. 23, 2010, 07:27 PM
Tiki-- if your tranny fluid smells burnt, that might be you problem. 150K to 200K is about what you get. So don't begrudge it a new tranny if it's asking at 190K. But do be prepared to drop some money in for that. I got so many miles from mine because Jaspers are great (and expensive) and because I drive like a Reasonable Person especially when hauling.

Jaegermonster-- look for the male end of a 3-pronged plug in behind your front grille in the 7.3L PSD. That's where you plug in the engine block heater... (in Florida!). A long extension cord will work, but they lose juice over length so if you are serious, you need to buy a 16-gauge bad boy.

Tiki
Aug. 23, 2010, 08:02 PM
Well, I had it serviced recently and they didn't mention anything about the tranny fluid, and I know they check all fluids. How much is a new tranny? or for that matter a new clutch? I had some clutch problems when it was new and under warranty - twice for the same thing. Let the clutch in and it wouldn't come back and then, all of a sudden I had 2nd gear only and barely made it to a dealer - in one gear. They told me to back it into a parking space until they could get to it and I laughed at them and told them to try it their d@ms selves.

cssutton
Aug. 23, 2010, 08:40 PM
Can you give me a little tutorial on Regen?

It sounds to me like an engine designed to decide to work like a self-cleaning oven: When too much soot builds up (where?) it pours on the fuel to burn that out?

(With this analogy, can you see why I don't ask the diesel-only boys?)

Anywho. It will happen in my 7.3 PSD and I keep driving? Take it for a breezing type workout on the freeway? What?

I hope your still running 357K-er got a decent retirement. I can't bring myself to send mine to The Fiery Furnace where she would be melted down just for $200. Some of her parts (great tires and expensive batteries) are worth more than that. And the emotional attachment to a truck that has *never* screwed me is worth something, too.

There is not a regen feature on the 7.3 to my knowledge. Not on the two I owned anyway.

Regen is short for regeneration. There is a sensor in the ehaust system that when it determines the exhaust system has a certain about of soot in it, it will burn it out.

It is my recollection that this feature first appeared on the 2008 models.

I don't know much about the internal works other than when it first came out, they had instances of the exhaust looking like a flame thrower with flames shooting out 3' behind the truck.

Look at a 2008 exhaust and you will see and extention on the tail pipe that forks, like a sling shot handle.

The forks have holes in them. The maual tells you that you must not let those hoes get stopped up with mud, and for good reason.

It has been rumored, and I have no idea how accurate it is, that there is about $7,000 in crap on the truck to make it meet EPA regulations.

Stupid beyond understanding.

The progressives claim to be the party of the working man.

How many working men can afford to pay $50,000 for a pickup?

Anyway, your analogy to the self cleaning oven was pretty good.

CSSJR

wildlifer
Aug. 23, 2010, 09:23 PM
You are correct about regen -- it did not rear its ugly head until 2008. Due to EPA regulations, all new Ford diesels have a Diesel Particulate Filter in the exhaust system. When soot builds up, it shoots fuel in there and burns it all off so the soot doesn't go out the tail pipe. Which does burn fuel, so in the balance, probably accomplishes basically nothing in terms of conserving resources. But obviously they didn't ask me for design ideas. Progressive is not necessarily bad, but administrators are stupid and push stupid ideas. Common sense is lost down at my layer, the underling one.

The DPF is not on the 7.3L (thankfully) so you don't have to worry about it and it CAN be taken off of the new trucks. However, taking it off does void your warranty. But it increases your mileage.

The CPS is the cam position sensor. It's basically an electronic thingy without which your engine will. not. work. I think they were recalled b/c they kept going out. You should be able to call a Ford dealer and get them to print you off an OASIS report which will tell you if yours was replaced under recall. You can get a CPS from the dealer or from an International dealer (they built the engine) if there is one near you. Supposedly the grey International ones are better, but that is hearsay.

Jaegermonster
Aug. 23, 2010, 09:28 PM
Tiki-- if your tranny fluid smells burnt, that might be you problem. 150K to 200K is about what you get. So don't begrudge it a new tranny if it's asking at 190K. But do be prepared to drop some money in for that. I got so many miles from mine because Jaspers are great (and expensive) and because I drive like a Reasonable Person especially when hauling.

Jaegermonster-- look for the male end of a 3-pronged plug in behind your front grille in the 7.3L PSD. That's where you plug in the engine block heater... (in Florida!). A long extension cord will work, but they lose juice over length so if you are serious, you need to buy a 16-gauge bad boy.

That's what I'm telling you, there is nothing to plug in on my truck for an engine heater. It has a built in heater with a sensor and it automatically comes on at a certain temperature. It was an option that came with the truck.

Jaegermonster
Aug. 23, 2010, 09:31 PM
No, as a matter of fact, I don't know stuff about fuel bowls and CPS yet. (On the to-do list)

In fact, I don't even know where those things are on this engine.

I
For example, do y'all know that the turbo engines have two (2!) alternators? One can punt and you can still run. Apparently Ford needed more electricity and also reliability for ambulances which were powered by the PSD engine. They could build one big alternator or create juice plus reliability by building two. You can see the top one; the other is buried deeper.

OK. But do you care?


two alternators and two batteries, which can get a little pricey when battery time rolls around.
The "water bowl thingy" is where your fuel filter goes, and on my truck it's right on the top easy to get to. Just make sure when you take the filter out to dump the water that you put all the gaskets back in carefully and put the filter back in carefully or it will leak diesel fuel and stink like hell. If you have the owners manual with your truck it will tell you where everything is.

mvp
Aug. 23, 2010, 09:49 PM
That's what I'm telling you, there is nothing to plug in on my truck for an engine heater. It has a built in heater with a sensor and it automatically comes on at a certain temperature. It was an option that came with the truck.

Or else Ford knew it was shipping this one to FL and made this modification. I knew that engine block heating was a standard bit of equipment on trucks shipped to some states. Perhaps they don't change the whole engine but just this little "rat tail" and all it a day.

Jaegermonster
Aug. 23, 2010, 10:19 PM
Now that I don't know. My first and third trucks had the plug in kind, but of course I never had to use it. The second truck had nothing. But this one came with the built in heater right off the lot. This year we really needed it, it was pretty cold down here, and it was nice not to have to mess with the cord and all that in the cold on hunt mornings.
This truck was exactly what I wanted and even matched my trailer so one extra option I didn't care about at the time was no biggie, but this past winter it was nice to have, esp when I went to Virginia in Feb during the blizzard

cssutton
Aug. 23, 2010, 10:32 PM
My mechanic told me that all Ford diesels have the block heater but that not all have the wire to plug it in.

I believe that he meant that all 7.3's and later have it.

I think we are getting heaters mixed up with heaters.

A block heater is an option that you pay for, or at least you pay for the cord to plug it in.

A fuel heater is standard. All that does is heat the fuel so that it does not jell in cold weather. And there is nothing to plug in. The truck is its power source.

A block heater must have an external power source because it must generate a lot of heat. Think of a cal rod in your oven.

Or the one in your bucket for washing tack and that it must put out enough to heat that huge engine's block with all of its cast iron, oil and the water that is in the block.

There is also a lot of conversation about block heaters. Depending on the year model, trucks will start at varying temperatures without it.

On the 2008 the book says something like don't bother using the block heater above ???? 10 degrees maybe. I forgot.

My experience with the 7.3 was that you had better plug it in when the temps are going to be below 18 or so.

Obviously not required with a brand new set of batteries, but in the real world by the time you run the glow plugs, and the 7.3 glows forever when it is really cold, and crank a few times with old batteries, your battery gives up.

Besides, really cold engines are not good things even if they start up with no pain.

The cylinder is just that. A piston is a plug in a cylinder. When the engine is REALLY cold, the cylinder shrinks more than the piston and they do not have the same fit, the oil is not doing its thing and you have excessive wear on the cylinders until things warm up.

So block heat keeps all of these bad things from happening plus you get heat much quicker in the truck interior.

The 2008 glow plugs do their thing in a blink and it starts really quick, like a fuel injected gas engine.

Even so, I plug mine in when it is cold.

I also use Shell Rotella 15 40 oil. That is the only oil for a diesel.

Stop in at any major truck stop and look on the oil counter. You will see that it is by far the preferred oil for the big trucks.

There is a lot of nonsense about oil and the auto manufacturers are as guilty as anyone.

Unless your are using your truck under extremely dirty conditions, like lots of miles on dirt roads, etc., the harder you use your truck the less you need to change oil.

Reason is that driving 10,000 miles a year means that there are lots of short trips and lots of days of no use.

Short trips and long shut downs means condensate in the oil.

In other words, water.

Lots of driving, say 40,000 or more and especially if that is highway miles boils out any condensate from the preceding night's shutdown.

With all past diesels, and I had one the first year Ford sold them, my target was to change every 5,000 and in the real world I ran over to the 7,000 and 7,500 mark many times.

The 2008 allows 10,000 and I follow that pretty close.

So regular use and religious filter changes are more important.

The truck will run better and last longer if you use it every day.

It is also important to remember that the turbo gets hot hot hot like you would not believe.

In ordinary driving, you can ignore it. But if you are driving on the interstate at 70 MPH, especially if you are pulling horses, and pull into a rest stop or filling station, you should not shut it down the instant you stop. Let the engine idle for several minutes.

If you shut it down hot, the oil in the turbo cokes. When you crank the engine again, the bearings in the turbo are dry for a few seconds but at umpteen thousand RPM's, that is all it takes to ruin it.

Ordinary driving, ignore that. Ordinary= like driving to a hunt pulling horses. Drive fast. Turbo hot. But by the time you pull off the main road and drive a mile or two down a secondary road, pull into the farm road and park the trailer, you have operated at reduced power long enough that it is as cool as it will ever be.

3 trucks ago, I sold my used one to a neighbor. It snowed. His parking area is steep, he got stuck. He lost his temper and spun and spun and huffed and puffed and got mad, shut it down, jumped out and went into the house mad.

When he cranked it next, turbo blew.

CSSJR

mvp
Aug. 25, 2010, 08:03 AM
Just a little FYI. An article on how to do this is here:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/article/idx/0/144/article/How_to_change_the_Camshaft_Position_Sensor_on_a_73 _Power_Stroke_Diesel.html

You might want to print out that pup and keep it in your glove box with the part and tools.

wildlifer
Aug. 25, 2010, 09:32 AM
Hmmmm, I don't know about all the diesels having block heaters. I have hunted and hunted on mine, with the help of the ford-trucks.com guys and have never been able to find it. If anyone knows of any further tips on locating it -- I have scoured that puppy with a flashlight and much shimmying and it sure would be helpful in the winter, so I don't have to cycle the glow plugs three times and listen to the romps on cold starts.

Tiki
Aug. 25, 2010, 11:38 AM
It took me a while to find mine. It is between the front grill and the radiator and it took quite a bit of feeling around to find the pigtail, but it is there - on mine.

Jaegermonster
Aug. 25, 2010, 07:06 PM
They don't all have block heaters. It's an option. You can get the plug in or kind or you can upgrade further and get the one like I have on my truck that has a sensor and doesn't need to be plugged in.
They may automatically put it on trucks that are being sold up north, but it is an option.
Whether they are still putting them on current trucks i have no idea, my turck is an 02.
I actually looked at the window sticker from my current truck (I still have it in the glove box) and it is a separate option in the upgraded package on my truck. It is not a fuel heater it is a block heater. Someone had special ordered it and never picked it up, so it has lots of special stuff on it.

weasel1088
Aug. 25, 2010, 08:27 PM
They don't all have block heaters. It's an option. You can get the plug in or kind or you can upgrade further and get the one like I have on my truck that has a sensor and doesn't need to be plugged in.
They may automatically put it on trucks that are being sold up north, but it is an option.
Whether they are still putting them on current trucks i have no idea, my turck is an 02.
I actually looked at the window sticker from my current truck (I still have it in the glove box) and it is a separate option in the upgraded package on my truck. It is not a fuel heater it is a block heater. Someone had special ordered it and never picked it up, so it has lots of special stuff on it.



So where does it get the 1000w to power the heater?


All dodges have the heater, it is just a matter of getting the connector with a plug so you can plug it into a wall socket.

cssutton
Aug. 25, 2010, 08:38 PM
They don't all have block heaters. It's an option. You can get the plug in or kind or you can upgrade further and get the one like I have on my truck that has a sensor and doesn't need to be plugged in.
They may automatically put it on trucks that are being sold up north, but it is an option.
Whether they are still putting them on current trucks i have no idea, my turck is an 02.
I actually looked at the window sticker from my current truck (I still have it in the glove box) and it is a separate option in the upgraded package on my truck. It is not a fuel heater it is a block heater. Someone had special ordered it and never picked it up, so it has lots of special stuff on it.

Maybe you misunderstood what I posted.

All of them after a certain model, 1999 or 2000, have the heater. Not all of them have the cord and plug.

I am certain that I understood my mechanic to tell me that.

He is a top notch mechanic, regularly goes to Ford school and is good enough that he does Ford warranty for more than the dealer for whom he works.

Like for all of the Thomas Bus engines, for instance.

For all of the EMC's engines in two counties, etc.

You do onot have a block heater that does not have to be plugged in.

I think they take about 1200 watts. Your batteries would be dead in a very short time.

As big as the Ford diesel engine is, it takes a couple of hours to heat it on a really cold moring. How long, I don't really know.

I plug mine into a timer set to start at 5:30 AM, as I normally don't leave until 8:30 or so.

I don't have the formula, but I can tell you that your batteries would not run a 1200 watt cal rod for more than a half hour or so and still crank the engine.

Maybe an electrical engineer can chine in and give us the actual numbers.

But to make an example, your headlights are more than likely 85 watts on high beam and 55 on low.

You have two. How long on a cold night are you willing to leave your lights on and go to the house?

CSSJR

weasel1088
Aug. 25, 2010, 09:01 PM
Sounds like you've got it right CSSJR. As far as i know, all diesels come with the heater in the block. It is a matter of obtaining the plug and cord, to make it useful.


This is just an example of what you need to get a block heater, there is no other way to run a 1000w heater beside plugging it in to something.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Ram-Cummins-Diesel-Motor-Block-Heater-Cord-Plug-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ350359945772QQptZMotorsQ5f CarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_500wt_975



Good call on the timer CSSJR, sounds like you have a perfect setup. though i like to plug my truck in even when its not super cold, just because it heats up SIGNIFICANTLY faster when it has been plugged in. (ie much better for the engine, and you in the cab:D )


OH and i think it is not that easy of a physics problem unless you know the rating of your batter in amps/hr. cold cranking amps only tell you what it can supply for a short time. if you knew amps, you could multiply amps x volts and get watts then figure how long a batter would last powering a 1000w heater....ok im done!

Chief2
Aug. 25, 2010, 09:49 PM
Just an FYI: If someone is looking at buying a new Diesel pickup truck or one of the upcoming 2011 models, the auto makers are going to be selling and requiring Diesel Exhaust Fluid to be used in in their diesel pickup trucks to tame the emissions. Mr. Chief2 runs an auto parts store that serves mostly mechanics. He says this fluid will be required in the trucks (he initially thought it was a joke, then found out he will be stocking it), is put into the engine near the windshield wash canister under the hood, has a limited shelf life, and will be required to be added into the engine every 5000 miles or the truck will not run. When the truck runs low, you get a warning light. Then once the fluid falls too low, the vehicle slows to 6 miles an hour, and then stops. Essentially, this will tie you to the dealer for your oil changes as the schedules are run in tandem. I've added a link to explain what is happening here. Chevy is already on board with this, and the stock is coming into the store. Ford and Dodge will also be on board.

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/03/10/i-pickuptrucks-com-i-looks-at-diesel-exhaust-fluid/

Jaegermonster
Aug. 25, 2010, 09:58 PM
Not here to argue with people who have never been anywhere near my truck about what it does or doesn't have. Glad you found a good mechanic, there's more than one on the planet and I have one too. Y'all carry on.

cssutton
Aug. 25, 2010, 10:12 PM
Not here to argue with people who have never been anywhere near my truck about what it does or doesn't have. Glad you found a good mechanic, there's more than one on the planet and I have one too. Y'all carry on.

I suggest a little reading material for you:

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-05-20.php

From Ford's tech manual.
CSSJR

cssutton
Aug. 25, 2010, 10:39 PM
Just an FYI: If someone is looking at buying a new Diesel pickup truck or one of the upcoming 2011 models, the auto makers are going to be selling and requiring Diesel Exhaust Fluid to be used in in their diesel pickup trucks to tame the emissions. Mr. Chief2 runs an auto parts store that serves mostly mechanics. He says this fluid will be required in the trucks (he initially thought it was a joke, then found out he will be stocking it), is put into the engine near the windshield wash canister under the hood, has a limited shelf life, and will be required to be added into the engine every 5000 miles or the truck will not run. When the truck runs low, you get a warning light. Then once the fluid falls too low, the vehicle slows to 6 miles an hour, and then stops. Essentially, this will tie you to the dealer for your oil changes as the schedules are run in tandem. I've added a link to explain what is happening here. Chevy is already on board with this, and the stock is coming into the store. Ford and Dodge will also be on board.

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/03/10/i-pickuptrucks-com-i-looks-at-diesel-exhaust-fluid/



I don't have a 2011. Mine is a 2008, but I was in the dealer's today and looked a a 2011 and talked to my mechanic about them.

It is my understanding that the urea additive will last about 7,500 miles. But even at 5,000 it would not be a problem other than just one more thing.

Actually even the big trucks are going to be forced to use it. I did a little search the other night and saw that some, not all, of the big truck stops are already installing a pump where you pump the urea into your truck and the cost is calculated just as fuel is.

My understanding is that it is about $3.00 a gallon.

Anyway, this is not a Ford weird idea. It will be required of all diesels and Ford has chosen to bite the bullet and get into it before it becomes mandatory.

This what I THINK I have learned. I do not state it as absolute fact.

CSSJR

cssutton
Aug. 25, 2010, 10:44 PM
Not here to argue with people who have never been anywhere near my truck about what it does or doesn't have. Glad you found a good mechanic, there's more than one on the planet and I have one too. Y'all carry on.



Self help thread on a diesel forum, but reading through it will be beneficial.

http://www.powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2222

This is the only automatic self powered heater on your truck.

And I don't have to see it to know that.

CSSJR

weasel1088
Aug. 25, 2010, 11:35 PM
Well, on the subject of DEF injection, Dodge does NOT need that. Another reason why dodge is better than the rest... Instead they use a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) to control emissions in combination with a special catalyst.




Jaeger, I wouldnt be arguing with CSSJR.... It is mechanically/electrically impossible to have what you say you have without an external power source.

cssutton
Aug. 26, 2010, 08:11 AM
Well, on the subject of DEF injection, Dodge does NOT need that. Another reason why dodge is better than the rest... Instead they use a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) to control emissions in combination with a special catalyst.




Jaeger, I wouldnt be arguing with CSSJR.... It is mechanically/electrically impossible to have what you say you have without an external power source.


My understanding is that Dodge will be forced by the government to use DEF injection.

Ford has Diesel Particulate Filter on the 2008, '09 and '10.

Here is a link to a long discusstion on a Cummins user board.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/2010-general-discussion/121226-urea-injection-2010-a.html

This is another good link by a manufacturer of DEF, but it is more general.

http://www.spatcodef.com/

Left margin: "Download this White Paper" gives you a PDF that is interesting.

So by the first link a quick read leads one to believe that some Dodges have DEF on present models and that all will probably have it shortly.

Not knowing much about Dodges, I state nothing about them as a fact.

CSSJR

cssutton
Aug. 26, 2010, 08:53 AM
Well, on the subject of DEF injection, Dodge does NOT need that. Another reason why dodge is better than the rest... Instead they use a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) to control emissions in combination with a special catalyst.




Jaeger, I wouldnt be arguing with CSSJR.... It is mechanically/electrically impossible to have what you say you have without an external power source.

My memory was rusty about headlight wattage.

More than likely jaeger has 70 watt headlights.

I have seen 1000 watt and 1200 watts as the number for the block heater.

Lets assume 1000 to be conservative.

That would be equal to 14 headlights on bright beam.

So put a light bar on your truck, mount 14 headlights on it and turn them on without operating the engine.

Let me know how long the battery lasts.

CSSJR

Lucassb
Aug. 26, 2010, 11:15 AM
Just a little FYI. An article on how to do this is here:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/article/idx/0/144/article/How_to_change_the_Camshaft_Position_Sensor_on_a_73 _Power_Stroke_Diesel.html

You might want to print out that pup and keep it in your glove box with the part and tools.

Here is another good article on the CPS. For the record, I believe the grey (Intl) ones *are* more reliable ... and the one I bought was under $50, FWIW.

http://www.thedieselstop.com/contents/getitems.php3?CPS%20Failure!

Definitely worth having the spare in your glove box.

mvp
Aug. 26, 2010, 12:58 PM
Here is another good article on the CPS. For the record, I believe the grey (Intl) ones *are* more reliable ... and the one I bought was under $50, FWIW.

http://www.thedieselstop.com/contents/getitems.php3?CPS%20Failure!

Definitely worth having the spare in your glove box.

OK, 'fess up: Have you ever actually changed one of these en route yourself?

I think being able to do that sounds like a really good idea if there are horses hanging in the balance. But it's one more thing to learn. Sigh.


Oh yes, and what are the signs of a dying CPS?

mvp
Aug. 26, 2010, 01:03 PM
PS-- There was no article with that link. How do I find it?

cssutton
Aug. 27, 2010, 10:31 PM
I can't answer your question, but this link has multiple links concerning cps problem.

http://us2.ixquick.com/do/metasearch.pl?

I have not read them so I leave picking through them for one relevant to your concern up to you.

I hope this helps.

CSSJR

weasel1088
Aug. 28, 2010, 07:17 AM
My understanding is that Dodge will be forced by the government to use DEF injection.

Ford has Diesel Particulate Filter on the 2008, '09 and '10.

Here is a link to a long discusstion on a Cummins user board.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/2010-general-discussion/121226-urea-injection-2010-a.html

This is another good link by a manufacturer of DEF, but it is more general.

http://www.spatcodef.com/

Left margin: "Download this White Paper" gives you a PDF that is interesting.

So by the first link a quick read leads one to believe that some Dodges have DEF on present models and that all will probably have it shortly.

Not knowing much about Dodges, I state nothing about them as a fact.

CSSJR


I have actually seen that thread, and it is possible that eventually they might need it, but it is important to note that that thread refers to "chassis cab" vehicles which tend to fall under higher weight classes and thus different emissions restrictions/regulations.

What leads me to say that they wont have DEF injection is that the emissions are for 2010+ and dodge met those requirements back in 2007 (the first of the big 3 to do it) with the introduction of their 6.7l engine.

Time will tell on that one i guess...






My memory was rusty about headlight wattage.

More than likely jaeger has 70 watt headlights.

I have seen 1000 watt and 1200 watts as the number for the block heater.

Lets assume 1000 to be conservative.

That would be equal to 14 headlights on bright beam.

So put a light bar on your truck, mount 14 headlights on it and turn them on without operating the engine.

Let me know how long the battery lasts.

CSSJR



Sounds conclusive enough for me:D

cssutton
Aug. 28, 2010, 08:16 AM
Using logic and reason, you are no doubt correct.

The problem is that the EPA is involved.

At that point, logic and reason are useless.

The EPA was a good idea that ran amok.

Totally out of control.

Someday, if we don't get rid of them, you will be wearing a gas mask.

Only it will not clean or filter the air you inhale.. It will filter and clean the air you EXHALE!!!!

Nut cases.

CSSJR

weasel1088
Aug. 28, 2010, 08:57 AM
Using logic and reason, you are no doubt correct.

The problem is that the EPA is involved.

At that point, logic and reason are useless.

The EPA was a good idea that ran amok.

Totally out of control.

Someday, if we don't get rid of them, you will be wearing a gas mask.

Only it will not clean or filter the air you inhale.. It will filter and clean the air you EXHALE!!!!

Nut cases.

CSSJR




Haha yea tell me about it. Plus im out here in the Republic of California where the CARB (CA air resource board) has way too much control.

This year, i had to get my diesel truck smogged!!! and it was the biggest joke, and pain in the butt ever. it was only a visual test, as if the smog techs know anything about diesels. They were telling me all sorts of things that just were simply not true. every two years i have to pay 65 bucks for them to look at my truck for 5 min and plug it in to their fancy computer, sounds like a money makin scheme to me.

plus, they wont know if my turbo is stock, or my injectors are stock, or my camshaft, or this or that and whatever so whats the point! its out of control i tell you:mad:

mvp
Aug. 28, 2010, 09:36 AM
Haha yea tell me about it. Plus im out here in the Republic of California where the CARB (CA air resource board) has way too much control.

This year, i had to get my diesel truck smogged!!! and it was the biggest joke, and pain in the butt ever. it was only a visual test, as if the smog techs know anything about diesels. They were telling me all sorts of things that just were simply not true. every two years i have to pay 65 bucks for them to look at my truck for 5 min and plug it in to their fancy computer, sounds like a money makin scheme to me.

plus, they wont know if my turbo is stock, or my injectors are stock, or my camshaft, or this or that and whatever so whats the point! its out of control i tell you:mad:

Yeah, and you are scaring me personally.

Young Truck came have after market mods that are legal here in CT. But I could end up back in CA in the foreseeable future.... which will be very long because I plan on making this truck immortal.

I know the tuner will be illegal because it says so in red print on the manufacturer's webpage. No problem, take it out. But the rest of the stuff to go with it? Cool air intake? Straight exhaust? The temp gauges needed to make this truck or any turbodiesel run well? Those seem like invitations to pick on me. If the tuner didn't increase fuel economy (which helps emissions I assume?) I wouldn't care and put everything back to stock.

Can you send me to the clearinghouse of info for emissions in CA? I know they have Air Quality Districts-- SF Bay Area, LA and elsewhere? So some standards are statewide and others are local and more stringent? Does grandfathering happen for older diesels there?

I'm sure it's a question of finding a really knowledgeable diesel shop, too.

weasel1088
Aug. 28, 2010, 08:50 PM
Yeah, and you are scaring me personally.

Young Truck came have after market mods that are legal here in CT. But I could end up back in CA in the foreseeable future.... which will be very long because I plan on making this truck immortal.

I know the tuner will be illegal because it says so in red print on the manufacturer's webpage. No problem, take it out. But the rest of the stuff to go with it? Cool air intake? Straight exhaust? The temp gauges needed to make this truck or any turbodiesel run well? Those seem like invitations to pick on me. If the tuner didn't increase fuel economy (which helps emissions I assume?) I wouldn't care and put everything back to stock.

Can you send me to the clearinghouse of info for emissions in CA? I know they have Air Quality Districts-- SF Bay Area, LA and elsewhere? So some standards are statewide and others are local and more stringent? Does grandfathering happen for older diesels there?

I'm sure it's a question of finding a really knowledgeable diesel shop, too.



I do like to complain a lot.... But yes, the tuner has to come out, the cold air intake should be ok, they didnt say anything about my air filter, the exhaust depends on what your truck was originally equipped with. my truck came with no catalytic converter, so im good there. Did your truck have one? better yet, what year and make is your truck? the gauges are fine, i had mine and they didnt say anything, and they really dont affect the emissions whatsoever. it is also possible there is some sort of grandfathering because you have an out of state vehicle which was never built to CA emissions standards...


Chances are you will be fine, and worst case scenario is you do a little research and find a diesel shop that knows of a smog station that will work with you.

According to the CARB website, the guy who did my smog test didnt even do it right. It is a visual test, a plugin into the computer, and a "snap test" where they mash the gas down to make sure little to no smoke comes out of the exhaust. my guy just did a visual and a computer check.


snoop around here for more info. http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARResources/05_Legislative/RegulatoryActions/DieselWorkInf.html


here is a down and dirty guide. http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARResources/ftp/pdfdocs/Diesel%20Parts%20Article%20version%2012_24_2009_gc .pdf

Lucassb
Aug. 29, 2010, 10:33 AM
OK, 'fess up: Have you ever actually changed one of these en route yourself?

I think being able to do that sounds like a really good idea if there are horses hanging in the balance. But it's one more thing to learn. Sigh.


Oh yes, and what are the signs of a dying CPS?

Yep, indeed I have. It took me a lot longer than it should have - it was a little hard to compare the interior under the hood to the instructions I had printed out and stuck in the glove box while alone on the side of the road - but I got it done.

And the thing about CPS failures is that the first symptom tends to be the truck dying suddenly.

Lucassb
Aug. 29, 2010, 10:35 AM
PS-- There was no article with that link. How do I find it?

There's not much discussion, just a list of steps to follow:

How to change the Camshaft Position Sensor on a 7.3 Power Stroke Diesel


Article By: John Heimel

1. Make sure you have the correct part. This depends on the serial number of your engine which should be located on a sticker below the front of the plastic cover for the fuel bowl. Neither Ford or International calls it a "CPS", Ford calls it a CMP sensor and International calls it a CAMP sensor.


Ford Part #'s: Before engine serial #375549 F6T012K073A

Serial #375549 and above F7T012K073A


International Part #'s: Before engine serial #375549 1821720C98

Serial #375549 and above 1825899C93


2. Remove the #9 fuse under the hood (not in the dash).


3. You may want to remove the belt for easier access, but it's not necessary.


4. Disconnect the CMP sensor electrical connector. The sensor is located towards the bottom left on the front of the engine. You'll see the single wire bundle going to the sensor.


5. Remove the old CMP sensor using a 10mm socket. Be careful not to round off the bolt (there is only 1). It's on there real tight and is tough to get to.


6. Take the new CMP sensor and coat the seal with either motor oil or Vaseline and intall it. Install the bolt and reconnect the wire connector.


7. Reinstall the #9 fuse under the hood and you should be ready to go.

weasel1088
Aug. 30, 2010, 04:15 AM
Man i feel bad for you ford drivers who have to carry around parts that are known to fail. :lol:



































Just yankin yer chains:winkgrin:

mvp
Aug. 30, 2010, 06:54 AM
Man i feel bad for you ford drivers who have to carry around parts that are known to fail. :lol:


Just yankin yer chains:winkgrin:

Yeah, I know. (Oh, and I cut out some of the "space" between the yank and the punch line. Hope that's ok.)

In any case, if the truck world weren't such a booby-trapped filled jungle.... if the 7.3L IDI Ford didn't suck me into this company in the first place... and if the sexier 7.3L PSD didn't have the reputation as the *last* good diesel engine Ford made before the new 6.7s earn a track record, I wouldn't be in this mess.

And you might have to carry other, less convenient parts with other company insignias on them. If I owned a Dodge Cummins with an auto tranny, I'd have to carry that big and expensive part around with me. Like carrying a spare spleen. Kind of a bitch to get, bring with you and insert when necessary. Being a Dodge truck surrounding all this, I might have to pack many "peripherals" like ball joints as well.

I could, I suppose, get a Duramax and Allison tranny. Apparently a fine combination. But then I'd have to put up with "cheap space ship" styling in the interior.

And if I the 5.4L V-8 gasser were stronger.... if I could have found a V-10 that wasn't overpriced for the miles...

You know how it goes. In the face of uncertainty and compromise, we revert to what we know.

SimpsoMatt
Aug. 30, 2010, 12:55 PM
Block heaters:

Information I found on a diesel web forum (which is not necessarily a foolproof source of info) said the same thing that CSSJr and others have posted here: that Navistar builds all the engines with block heaters, and Ford puts power cords on the ones being sold in "cold climates".

I didn't know whether KY is considered a "cold climate", but my 2001 7.3 was originally sold in CT, and I figured that classified as cold. I looked around for a heater plug, but couldn't find one. I saw a picture that looked like the one in CSSJR's link, that suggested I should look near the starter. No luck.

Then I was changing the oil, and noticed a cord coming out of the block near the filter base. It looked way too heavy for a pressure sensor lead, so I figured it had to be a heater cord. Followed it around to the front of the truck, and found the plug hidden in the grille, just like everybody said. Don't know why I missed it the first few times I looked.

Cam position sensors:
There was a recall a couple of years ago. I got mine replaced. My understanding of the issue (which is not necessarily completely correct) is that the CPS was a known weak link for a long time, so well-known that many people carried spares. At some point, Ford switched to a more reliable one. (Somebody here mentioned grey, and I recall reading something about color being an indicator of whether you had a good or bad one, but I don't remember exactly).

At some point, after switching to a better CPS for new models, Ford finally gave in to public pressure and issued a recall for the bad ones. Anybody who is uncertain could do some searching. Ford has a website where you can plug in your VIN and it will tell you whether any recalls apply to your vehicle. I found mine there, and got the CPS replaced free.

Tiki
Aug. 30, 2010, 01:29 PM
My CPS failed and I had it replaced under warranty. I later got a recall letter and it said to bring the truck in - even if you had already had the CPS replaced - to make sure they put in the newer one. I brought it in - they said it was the newer, correct one. Yeah, it would either cut out or not start until it hit the right spot. Those were the symptoms.

mvp
Aug. 30, 2010, 06:27 PM
Cam position sensors:
There was a recall a couple of years ago. I got mine replaced. My understanding of the issue (which is not necessarily completely correct) is that the CPS was a known weak link for a long time, so well-known that many people carried spares. At some point, Ford switched to a more reliable one. (Somebody here mentioned grey, and I recall reading something about color being an indicator of whether you had a good or bad one, but I don't remember exactly).

At some point, after switching to a better CPS for new models, Ford finally gave in to public pressure and issued a recall for the bad ones. Anybody who is uncertain could do some searching. Ford has a website where you can plug in your VIN and it will tell you whether any recalls apply to your vehicle. I found mine there, and got the CPS replaced free.


SimpsoMatt-- that was really helpful. You rock! Thanks so much.

Does "Tatertown, KY" really exist? Is it a redneck oasis? .... not that there's anything wrong with that....

SimpsoMatt
Aug. 30, 2010, 07:02 PM
Tatertown (http://blog.jmatt.net/article.php/20030111162703781)

SimpsoMatt
Aug. 30, 2010, 08:50 PM
Speaking of heaters, here's an interesting one on my 2001 7.3 that many people may not have seen:

http://jmatt.net/images/heater.jpg

It uses the engine coolant to heat fuel lines. When I was at the dealer getting my CPS replaced, I browsed through some brochures and found this. It's an optional heater that heats the fuel return line to warm the excess fuel being circulated back to the tank.

I'm not real sure what problem it's supposed to solve. It's obviously not going to help with cold starts, because the engine has to run for a while before it heats anything. I suppose that if the block heater has been plugged in, the coolant will already be lukewarm when the engine starts (anybody know what temperature the block heater maintains?), so it could start circulating warm fuel immediately, but it would still take a while to make a significant difference in the tank. I guess it's for really cold driving where there's a chance of the fuel gelling in the tank even after you get rolling.

cssutton
Aug. 30, 2010, 10:41 PM
Speaking of heaters, here's an interesting one on my 2001 7.3 that many people may not have seen:

http://jmatt.net/images/heater.jpg

It uses the engine coolant to heat fuel lines. When I was at the dealer getting my CPS replaced, I browsed through some brochures and found this. It's an optional heater that heats the fuel return line to warm the excess fuel being circulated back to the tank.

I'm not real sure what problem it's supposed to solve. It's obviously not going to help with cold starts, because the engine has to run for a while before it heats anything. I suppose that if the block heater has been plugged in, the coolant will already be lukewarm when the engine starts (anybody know what temperature the block heater maintains?), so it could start circulating warm fuel immediately, but it would still take a while to make a significant difference in the tank. I guess it's for really cold driving where there's a chance of the fuel gelling in the tank even after you get rolling.


My 2008 has 6 radiators.

One of them is to cool the fuel line.

Does it also warm the fuel on a really cold day?

I have no idea.

All I can find so far: "should be around 118-122( unless high ambient) check the coolant in your cooler it is on the driver side with a little silver cap it has a sight glass. you probably have air in the system it can be bled with the allen key to the left of it brass let it run and bubles will come out

the temp will always be really high when started because of heat soak"

And this:

Fuel cooling pump noise:
The 6.4 PowerStroke has a seperate cooling system for the fuel supply system. A loud squealing from the pump mounted on the driver sid of the lower fan shroud can indicate air trapped in the system. Before replacing the pump or performing other repairs, inspect the hose joint attachments, inspect the system for leaks, pressure test the system pressure cap. Verify the system is completely filled and bled as per the service manual. Broadcast Message 7338, SSM 19815.

CSSJR

Boomer
Sep. 1, 2010, 08:04 AM
5.9L cummins for me, based on durbility, longevity, power, and mileage.
For ease of work, you really cannot get easier than an inline 6, even being longer there is just so much room to work around its great. has the feeling of older cars where its basically an engine and thats it(where you can practically stand in the engine bay!)



So easy a cavewoman can do it! I love my cummins too - it's in a 2000 Ram 2500 going strong at 177,000.

weasel1088
Sep. 2, 2010, 03:15 AM
So easy a cavewoman can do it! I love my cummins too - it's in a 2000 Ram 2500 going strong at 177,000.


Glad you have seen the light!:D Mine is going strong with 305k miles.




And who wouldnt want fewer working parts with 6 cylinders as opposed to 8. :winkgrin:

Boomer
Sep. 2, 2010, 01:55 PM
Glad you have seen the light!:D Mine is going strong with 305k miles.

And who wouldnt want fewer working parts with 6 cylinders as opposed to 8. :winkgrin:

305K ? Nice! Hope Ole' Blue hangs in that long!

I have learned to do some truck repairs myself and am a member of The Turbo Diesel Register - have gotten some really good info there when a problem comes up.