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dilligaff2
Jun. 16, 2010, 03:19 PM
Can the FEI issue yellow cards to non-riders? Not a coach but maybe an owner? :confused:

Blugal
Jun. 16, 2010, 03:31 PM
Yes, the most recent listing of FEI Yellow Cards & warnings listed an owner, and a parent as receiving yellow cards.

saje
Jun. 16, 2010, 05:22 PM
So what happens if they incur 2 yellow cards w/in 12 months? A rider is suspended for a period of time, but how do you suspend the mother of a rider?

Blugal
Jun. 16, 2010, 05:26 PM
Available here (http://www.fei.org/sites/default/files/file/OFFICIALS%20%26%20ORGANISERS/Warning_Cards/Rider%27s%20Sanction%20List_1.pdf).

Ibex
Jun. 16, 2010, 05:31 PM
So what happens if they incur 2 yellow cards w/in 12 months? A rider is suspended for a period of time, but how do you suspend the mother of a rider?


Available here (http://www.fei.org/sites/default/files/file/OFFICIALS%20%26%20ORGANISERS/Warning_Cards/Rider%27s%20Sanction%20List_1.pdf).

Oh My. I wonder what went down... :eek:

Blugal
Jun. 16, 2010, 05:35 PM
I'm thinking that a smart rider would say, "Thanks for all your help, Mum. I'm going to attend the next 3 FEI shows until 12 months is up without you though."

I certainly wouldn't risk being caught up in an FEI brou-ha-ha due to some crazy suspension due to my connections, even if it's not in the rules and I got exonerated later.

subk
Jun. 16, 2010, 05:41 PM
Oh My. I wonder what went down... :eek:
Oh. My. Indeed. Do I need popcorn?

archieflies
Jun. 16, 2010, 07:16 PM
Anyone else enjoying reading some of the reasons people have been giving YC's? My personal favorite is the one that got the YC for being very late to the trot-up... oddly enough, her hrose was named "Timing."

I also like the one where the rider was repeatedly caught smoking in the stabling area (after already receiving a YC for jumping incorrectly in warm-up). Don't they have an "idiot card" they can give out instead?

Long Spot
Jun. 16, 2010, 08:52 PM
I'm admittedly curious about the 5th one from the top...

Bobthehorse
Jun. 16, 2010, 08:56 PM
I wish they had "idiot cards" and "scumbag cards" instead. So much better.

Bobthehorse
Jun. 16, 2010, 09:03 PM
I'm admittedly curious about the 5th one from the top...


Hahah I know!

CarolinaGirl
Jun. 16, 2010, 09:18 PM
I notice one person is suspended for two yellow cards in twelve months, but I spotted one or two others that appear to have two yellows within the same year... why are they not listed in red?

eventrider
Jun. 16, 2010, 09:25 PM
C'mon. What happened with Valerie Ashker getting a yellow card. Not fair to keep the details to yourself.....

Meredith Clark
Jun. 16, 2010, 10:20 PM
This one is pretty bad too:


Incorrect behaviour / galloped and jumped in an unsecured zone without helmet or body protector

:rolleyes:

yventer
Jun. 17, 2010, 12:24 AM
Yes, the most recent listing of FEI Yellow Cards & warnings listed an owner, and a parent as receiving yellow cards.

I guess I'm a dummy, or perhaps my rural computer connection is limiting me, but *where* do you see that anyone other than the rider is liable?

Personally, I'd *LOVE* to see the parents and trainers of under-19 riders (and especially under-16) be held responsible for their bad riding. But I had a bad experience while judging at BN, so that probably influences my opinion.

This was before Yellow cards:

I was jump judging at a California event, about 1997, and a very young BN rider was on course on a pony. A very fast, strong pony. I watched this young lady do the best she could to contain the pony over the eight or so XC fences before mine, including circling. But when they did two strides in a three-stride (horse!) line, the (young, probably adolescent) jump judge at that fence reported it as "Whoo-hoo, they're cookin'." All the other jump judges before me seemed to think her being barely in control was funny. The rider continued to try to contain the pony; I radio'd that I thought they were in trouble, but got no response from "control". They were clear over my fence but crashed two fences later. If I'd had the "authority" to do so I would've pulled them up and asked the young rider if she wanted to contine.

The rider and pony were OK, but what the HELL were the trainer and parents thinking?!? BN is supposed to be a lovely introduction into eventing, not a survivor sport! The PARENTS and TRAINER should've been yellow carded. But under the current system, it's the rider who would be sanctioned.


Looking back on what I've written, perhaps it should be a separate thread. But I still feel that perhaps "yellow carding" should extend *past* the rider to her/his coach, trainer, parent, etc., under certain circumstances, or after multiple violations. But what a slippery slope!!

(If an 18 year-old rider continues to do what s/he's been told since s/he was a young rider of 14 years, should s/he be the only one liable when caught in a drug test?)

Yvonne

ZIL
Jun. 17, 2010, 01:07 AM
I guess I'm a dummy, or perhaps my rural computer connection is limiting me, but *where* do you see that anyone other than the rider is liable?

Personally, I'd *LOVE* to see the parents and trainers of under-19 riders (and especially under-16) be held responsible for their bad riding. But I had a bad experience while judging at BN, so that probably influences my opinion.


Valerie Ashker is a parent (first page). I think the cards are given to parents (and owners) for their owni behavior, which makes one wonder, what happened? :lol:

I want to know so many riders continued after three refusals.

riderboy
Jun. 17, 2010, 07:08 AM
C'mon. What happened with Valerie Ashker getting a yellow card. Not fair to keep the details to yourself.....

I'm with you. :)

clivers
Jun. 17, 2010, 08:27 AM
I wish they had "idiot cards" and "scumbag cards" instead. So much better.

LMAO!!!! :)

whicker
Jun. 17, 2010, 10:28 AM
It seems like 2 months off for suspension isn't very much. Especially at the end of the season. I thought it would be as long as the suspensions for dressage or show jumping. How did OT manage to keep going with 2 yellow cards at the same event? He wasn't listed in red.

I agree that the people surrounding the rider need to have a reason to improve their sportsmanship skills.

ponyjumper4
Jun. 17, 2010, 10:32 AM
Valerie Ashker is a parent (first page). I think the cards are given to parents (and owners) for their owni behavior, which makes one wonder, what happened? :lol:


Don't you have to be an FEI member to actually get a warning from the FEI? The parent above is an owner, so would be an FEI member? If not an owner, I don't think this parent could be penalized, but I could be completely wrong.

roki143
Jun. 17, 2010, 10:38 AM
How did OT manage to keep going with 2 yellow cards at the same event? He wasn't listed in red.


Verbal Warnings, not yellow cards. I believe it's two yellow cards for suspension... correct?

Bobthehorse
Jun. 17, 2010, 10:57 AM
Gosh I really wish there were scumbag cards for those people busted for pressing and whipping tired horses.

jen-s
Jun. 17, 2010, 01:35 PM
Ok, so *someone* out there must know the details about #5. Someone? Anyone?? Please.......

Highflyer
Jun. 17, 2010, 02:09 PM
Well, when I was a kid playing soccer, a parent could be yellow carded, red carded (thrown out of a game), or if they were a repeat offender, banned for the season. There was also a pony club parent in our region who was not allowed to coach, volunteer or officiate in any way at pony club nationals in KY because he had previously been so obnoxious. (Of course he shouldn't have been allowed to coach at regional rallies or even teach kids, IMHO, because he was a horrible man and a lousy instructor, but that's a different story).

My guess is that a spectator, groom, parent, etc. could be prohibited from attending FEI/ USEF shows, the way Barney Ward has been.

Count me among those who'd love to know why!

OTTB FTW
Jun. 17, 2010, 02:43 PM
LOL!!! my personal favorite.... "dangerous riding/jumping on XC into a roped spectator area" :lol: I assume it wasn't on purpose..... that was one bad day all around.....

Mudroom
Jun. 17, 2010, 03:17 PM
I liked "lack of proactivity" - with that we could clean out the ranks of government and many corporations!

Don't you think people would get the message about continuing after elimination?

Meredith Clark
Jun. 17, 2010, 03:22 PM
Don't you think people would get the message about continuing after elimination?

I've jumped judged at events and I think people sometimes truly lose count of how many stops or refusals they've had (or so I like to think..) but the truly annoying things is when you're flagging them down and they just canter right past you.

If you are on course and someone stands up and shakes an orange flag at you then STOP! :lol:

lizajane09
Jun. 17, 2010, 04:16 PM
I've jumped judged at events and I think people sometimes truly lose count of how many stops or refusals they've had (or so I like to think..) but the truly annoying things is when you're flagging them down and they just canter right past you.

If you are on course and someone stands up and shakes an orange flag at you then STOP! :lol:

While I do agree with you, it definitely doesn't explain the one where someone fell off, then got back on and jumped the obstacle they fell off at...

Ibex
Jun. 17, 2010, 05:02 PM
While I do agree with you, it definitely doesn't explain the one where someone fell off, then got back on and jumped the obstacle they fell off at...

They were hoping no one was looking? :lol:


Ok, SOMEONE had to have witnessed #5...

vineyridge
Jun. 17, 2010, 05:42 PM
Y'all notice how many BNRs are listed? And how many are for incorrect behavior or other offenses relating to officials?

Madeline Brugman seems to be a real piece of work, doesn't she? One gets the feeling that she thinks she is above criticism. She is the Nicholson/Hoy student who caused such a flap in Portugal last year or the year before about the boots. FEI couldn't make the charge stick because of poor evidence handling. Still, she now has two more recent carding, including the one for smoking.

Gotta go now and look at the other lists. Gossip or the equivalent is so much fun, isn't it?

After looking at all the other disciplines, eventing has far more yellow cards than all the rest combined. However, none of the others has "dangerous riding" as grounds for being carded. Most of the other disciplines don't lay out the grounds except as section numbers of the FEI regulations. Nice way to hide what happened in plain sight. Just so y'all will know, that is if any of you have poked around in the other disciplines, 169.6.2 is Abuse of Horse and 169.6.3 is Incorrect Behavior (also known as Abuse of Officials. :) ) Michael Whitaker and a Hungarian driver are the only other BNRs that I could see.

Dressage doesn't even use Warning Cards apparently--or has issued none in the period that the lists cover.

Wonder precisely what VA did at Rolex? You who know, spill, please.

NeverTime
Jun. 17, 2010, 07:29 PM
Disappointed to see from the list that Nate Chambers got an "abuse of horse/pressing a tired horse" yellow card at Fair Hill last fall with his lovely Rolling Stone. Hopefully that was a learning experience.

advmom
Jun. 18, 2010, 01:10 AM
Let's hope so as it was terrible to watch!

PhoenixFarm
Jun. 18, 2010, 01:12 AM
Just last night I was chatting with someone who said he was 33 seconds fast at Bromont.

Sharon
Jun. 18, 2010, 06:49 AM
What about Jessica Phoenix closing in on a minute too fast.

When is it the horse's job to know speed and good horsemanship?
I listened to Jessica on the WEG radio show with Samantha and Glen. I was waiting to hear her say that she would never do that again....but she took no responsibility. She said that her watch was working and she knew her minute markers...and chalked it up to the mare being economical....If the mare is so economical, then the speed can be reduced to save the horse.

Meredith Clark
Jun. 18, 2010, 12:11 PM
Disappointed to see from the list that Nate Chambers got an "abuse of horse/pressing a tired horse" yellow card at Fair Hill last fall with his lovely Rolling Stone. Hopefully that was a learning experience.

I was at the combo before they pulled him and I'm glad they did.

Fair Hill was difficult enough with the wet footing, you don't need to put being tired on top of the horse

subk
Jun. 18, 2010, 03:51 PM
What about Jessica Phoenix closing in on a minute too fast.

When is it the horse's job to know speed and good horsemanship?
I listened to Jessica on the WEG radio show with Samantha and Glen. I was waiting to hear her say that she would never do that again....but she took no responsibility. She said that her watch was working and she knew her minute markers...and chalked it up to the mare being economical....If the mare is so economical, then the speed can be reduced to save the horse.
I'm glad someone else noted this. However, Eventing Nation reported that she was 31 seconds under time. http://eventingnation.com/home/bromontthreestarxcscores1.jpg (Which is still BAD.) Her other horse was the second fastest horse of the day at 2 seconds over--that horse had that time WITH a stop. Makes me think it's a rider problem not an "economical horse" problem.

Shrunk "N" Da Wash
Jun. 18, 2010, 04:21 PM
I'm glad someone else noted this. However, Eventing Nation reported that she was 31 seconds under time. http://eventingnation.com/home/bromontthreestarxcscores1.jpg (Which is still BAD.) Her other horse was the second fastest horse of the day at 2 seconds over--that horse had that time WITH a stop. Makes me think it's a rider problem not an "economical horse" problem.

Rider PROBLEM :lol:

I beg to differ.. She is making it around safely. I saw exponential run a few years back at an intermediate it is a very quick horse but she did not look even close to pushing it or unsafe. I think some people may be a tad jealous that she is so quick across the country. I think other people have to learn how to kick it up a notch and still look safe. Check out the video here and tell me if she looks unsafe:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ECOGOLD#p/search/2/uxz1xM6MVN4

I personally would love to ride like that at that speed!!! :yes:

belleellis
Jun. 18, 2010, 04:59 PM
My favorites are the jumping from standstill and the levels are all * or higher....HOLY COW. Yes unsafe but man I have to say impressive at the same time!

goeslikestink
Jun. 18, 2010, 05:02 PM
Anyone else enjoying reading some of the reasons people have been giving YC's? My personal favorite is the one that got the YC for being very late to the trot-up... oddly enough, her hrose was named "Timing."

I also like the one where the rider was repeatedly caught smoking in the stabling area (after already receiving a YC for jumping incorrectly in warm-up). Don't they have an "idiot card" they can give out instead?

yeah i did lol

pcwertb
Jun. 18, 2010, 05:58 PM
But I don't know at FEI. I was with the TD at a national show where we had to yellow card a BNR for walking her horse in the competition ring in the evening, when she thought no one was watching. (Guess she thought it might help that he had reared and exited stage left at X earlier in the day, but then she pretended not to know the rings were "CLOSED"). TD carded her.

NeverTime
Jun. 18, 2010, 07:19 PM
Rider PROBLEM :lol:

I beg to differ.. She is making it around safely. I saw exponential run a few years back at an intermediate it is a very quick horse but she did not look even close to pushing it or unsafe. I think some people may be a tad jealous that she is so quick across the country. I think other people have to learn how to kick it up a notch and still look safe. Check out the video here and tell me if she looks unsafe:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ECOGOLD#p/search/2/uxz1xM6MVN4

I personally would love to ride like that at that speed!!! :yes:

Thanks for posting. I agree; that looks like a lovely ride, balanced and jumping out of stride.

clivers
Jul. 26, 2010, 07:19 PM
I was just talking with someone Jessie's yellow card at Bromont - so here's my/our question:
can the FEI issue a yellow card purely because of someone's time being fast, or does there have to be evidence of the speed being too fast for the horse to be able to jump properly? Put another way, can you end up with a yellow card just based on the time on the scoreboard without someone witnessing the quality of your ride? IMO the video Shrunk posted shows a rider rebalancing in front of the fences and riding away positively - just the way it should be done! Is that the kind of ride you can get a yellow card for?

starfish
Jul. 26, 2010, 10:26 PM
Rider PROBLEM :lol:

I beg to differ.. She is making it around safely. I saw exponential run a few years back at an intermediate it is a very quick horse but she did not look even close to pushing it or unsafe. I think some people may be a tad jealous that she is so quick across the country. I think other people have to learn how to kick it up a notch and still look safe. Check out the video here and tell me if she looks unsafe:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ECOGOLD#p/search/2/uxz1xM6MVN4

I personally would love to ride like that at that speed!!! :yes:

You need to keep in mind that that video is a minute and a half long. It may or may not be a fair representation of the rest of her ride. I was at Bromont. I saw both her rides. Her yellow card struck me as entirely appropriate based on what I saw. I audible gasped at one point during her ride and I consider myself to have a pretty strong stomach.

equinedriver
Jul. 26, 2010, 11:07 PM
Okay, I am confused. When I go and look at the list, #5 is just some rider that continued after 3 refusals, and I don't see Laine's mother listed anywhere. Am I not looking at the right list? I clicked on the link, then on rider list under eventing.

wabadou
Jul. 27, 2010, 04:37 PM
Okay, I am confused. When I go and look at the list, #5 is just some rider that continued after 3 refusals, and I don't see Laine's mother listed anywhere. Am I not looking at the right list? I clicked on the link, then on rider list under eventing.

How weird is that?? :confused: Just checked the FEI site and Valerie Ashker's name and yellow card information has vanished from the list since it was updated 4 days ago....
(it says last updated July 23, 2010).
http://www.fei.org/warning-cards
It was definitely there a few weeks ago.

dexhol
Jul. 27, 2010, 06:46 PM
Anyone know a trick to get the file to open on Windows 7/Microsoft Works spreadsheet? Says it's password encrypted...